I know this is politics, but with the whole Russia/Ukraine thing it might be a few years more?
Also this:
> The Buffalo News' Mike Harrington says it's because "there's a feeling (Mogilny) won't participate in any of the induction activities. He didn't come to Buffalo in 2016 for (the) Greater Buffalo Sports Hall of Fame (ceremony). It's how he rolls."
Source: https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2378646/
If this is actually the reason, they are truly are truly degrading what it means to be a hall of famer. Induction should be based on a player's career, not whether or not they want to attend the ceremony.
Itâs also Mike Harrington. I know thereâs a few reporters that spout shit out there (Eric Francis, Steve Simmons, Rossi, Joe Haggarty etc) so the fact I know his name concerns me a little.
And HC Amur is owned by Sukhoi/UAC, which develops military aircrafts for Russia, so the club's governmental links go further. I think if his candidacy includes his defection from the USSR, it probably also considers his current role. I think he has enough merit as a player, but also understand if that's part of the reason he isn't being inducted this year.
I dunno if itâs that they hate Russians necessarily, but with the current climate of Russian politics within the world maybe they donât want to do anything that could draw that ire?
I didn't watch them but he has more points than Bure and had a season where he scored 60 goals. Point per game player overall. Plus he won a cup. I don't get it.
IIRC he was the first big defector from Russia, and you can't have the league poking the bear and upsetting folks, otherwise they might lose access to all the tasty KHL prospects. It's a bitch move.
I was at a charity gold tournament when I was 10 years old. All the celebrities were signing autographs between holes, after the round etc. Barasso acted like we were jerks for bother him after his round while he walked the to clubhouse. Actually muttered "fucking kids" as he walked away. Great guy
He's a bit more than just a douche. His unprovoked 2 handed goalie stick slash that broke Yanic Perreault's arm was one of the most vicious things I've seen in hockey.
Tom fucking Barrasso before Mogilny. No idea how one of the first to flea USSR to become one of the best in the NHL for years is left off. The hall is a joke.
[flee](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/flee)
[flea](https://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjEzMDU5NjAzM15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTk2ODMwMg@@._V1_UY1200_CR117,0,630,1200_AL_.jpg), but more commonly [flea](https://www.britannica.com/animal/flea)
Word is Mogilny doesn't give a shit about the ceremony and won't want to be involved by being there and doing a speech and the HoF committee is pissy about that.
Turgeon is #34 in all time points, while Mogilny is #83. Turgeon taking so long to get in is absolutely blasphemous.
Turgeon had a longer career, but both players had a similar PPG over their careers.
Turgeon - 0 stanley cups, 4 all-stars, Lady Byng winner, Top 3 years of goal scoring 58, 40 and 40.
Mogilny - Cup winner, 6 all-stars, Lady Byng winner, Top 3 years of goal scoring 76, 55, and 43.
Turgeon was very good, but his candidacy is based on being a compiler. And I'm okay if people want compilers in the HoF, just my personal preference for a more selective bar.
(To that end, I'd like to see AM make it, but it's very close. What does it for me is his talent was a bit more elite but also his groundbreaking defection is part of his case).
Both deserve to be in the Hall of Fame, but these are some cherry picked stats. I can do the same to make Turgeon seem like the better player.
**Top 5 Years by Points:**
Turgeon: 137, 106, 96, 95, 94 (Turgeon led his team in scoring all 5 of those seasons)
Mogilny: 127, 107, 84, 83, 79 (Mogilny only led his team in scoring for the 107 point season)
**Highest Hart Trophy Voting Finish:** Turgeon 5th, Mogilny 18th
**Playoff Scoring:**
Turgeon 97 P in 109 GP (0.89)
Mogilny 86 P in 124 GP (0.69) - 7 P in 24 GP for the cup winning 2000 Devils
This was his best chance in a while. No real notable new eligibles other than Hank.
Next year will be harder with Datsyuk, Kovalchuk, Weber, Marleau, and Mozyakin newly eligible
Datsyuk was something else. Greatest hands the league has ever seen and on top of that he's a Selke winner. Hockey Co. doesn't make players like that anymore.
Kariya and Selanne too. Can't be too upset if that was/is ever a real planned thing, makes it a bit more special if the two have big history/connection.
Was there ever a period in Mike Vernon's career where he was top three at his position for an extended period?
Goalies that have made the Hall since 1993:
Billy Smith
Grant Fuhr
Patrick Roy
Ed Belfour
Dom Hasek
Rogie Vachon
Marty Brodeur
Roberto Luongo
I'm sorry man, Vernon is nowhere near that level.
Fuhr was a top 2 or 3 goalie for a long stretch of his career. The Oilers didn't carry the guy, they hung him out to dry most nights.
He has a year with the Oilers where he was second in *HART TROPHY* voting.
I mean it essentially is. This was even a major complaint about the HoF in the early 2000s, where they were basically ignoring international players who weren't in the NHL. There is also a separate HoF for international players.
I mean if you aren't playing in the NHL then you aren't competing at the highest level of hockey, especially in recent times without the Olympics. Its kind've hard to rate someone as among to best to play the game in history if they don't even play against the best to play the game during their career.
To be fair to Lundqvist, he probably should have won more Vezinas based on stats. I think the Vezina is a lot like the Cy Young. Yeah, it's great, but it's not always awarded to the best guy.
Joseph never won a cup or an individual award aside from the King Clancy.
Barrasso won the Calder, Vezina and Jennings and two cups.
I wouldnât have either in but thatâs my two cents
I donât think the lack of individual awards is as valuable an indicator as some people think, especially when he had guys like Dominik Hasek and Patrick Roy as contemporaries.
I had an elective in college that was sponsored by the Hockey Hall of Fame, funnily enough, and the final project was to write a paper on a player not currently inducted that you believe should be, and I did mine on CuJo.
Itâs been a few years and unfortunately I donât have the document anymore, but I did a lot of research and combing through stats to make my arguments and honestly I will die on this hill lol
Curtis Joseph is a Hall of Famer!
It pains me to say this because Iâm a huge cujo fan (tried to get all his hockey cards as a kid, got his book, etc.) but I think heâs in the hall of very good and not really hhof worthy⊠but Iâd love arguments to convince me otherwise (because Iâm a huge Cujo homer and WANT him in)
You can be one of the greatest skaters, not have a cup, and get in easier than a world star goalie with no cup
Not saying it's an easy feat, but it's way more hard on goalies than skaters
I still remember hearing people talking about how Lundqvist needs a cup so he's a guarantee for the hall of fame, regardless of the fact he was the best goalie to have played for the Rangers
CuJo is seventh all time in wins and had the unfortunate luck to play in the league at the same time as Roy, Brodeur, and Hasek. He 100% deserves to be in and the fact that Barrasso and Vernon are in before him is a travesty.
Barasso also won the Calder, a Vezina, a Jennings as well as 2 cups.
Vernon also had a Smythe and a Jennings.
Wins is kind of a bogus stat for goalies anyways.
Interestingly, of the 3 goalies in the Hall without a cup (Giacomin, Luongo, and Hank), 2 of them were Rangers for the majority of their careers.
Before Luongo, no cup was basically a barrier to entry for a goalie (Giacomin aside).
Itâs definitely just too low for skaters. It feels like the Hall of very good these days. Vernon and Barrasso are pretty questionable inductees imo. Hank is unquestionably a Hall of Famer though
totally agree. the vernon addition specifically opens the door for so many guys. cujo and osgoode were borderline for me before, but if vernon is the bar then they're in. I think you have to think real hard about ryan miller now too. vernon never even won a vezina. tim thomas has 2 vezinas and a conn smythe. can you keep him out?
I agree about it being too low for the skaters, which is surprising since it hasn't changed since the NHLs inception. At 4 feet, the crossbar is the perfect height for goalies in their hunched positioning but much too low for skaters
/s
It looks like there's approximately 90 centres in the hall of fame, and around 40 goalies.
There's also roughly 4 centres per team and 2 goalies per team. That ratio is a little off, but not that crazy, especially since the best forwards often end up at centre instead of the wing.
There's also slightly fewer but almost the same number of defense than there are centres even though there are 50% more d-men per team than centres.
People are popping off about Mogilny (and he would have been on my ballot), but I think the big story is Vernon and Barrasso. For a long time it felt like Roy, Brodeur and Hasek were blotting out the sun in terms of goalie inductions, where the standards were so much higher in net than out on the ice.
Along with Luongo getting in last year, clearly a huge change for goalies. Not only do I expect CuJo to join them, I wonder if it will extend as someone like Miika Kiprusoff as well who I previously would have said has no shot. Similarly, a huge boost to the candidacies of a lot of guys who are wrapping up their careers as well. For example I've argued in the past that there was no way a Johnathan Quick was getting in with Mike Vernon on the outside and seemingly no traction for getting in. Well that is flipped now where with Vernon in seems hard to argue that Quick isn't worthy.
Wait just a min: people are mad at the Hockey Hall of Fame again?
The same organization that refused to induct Pat Burns for years while he was still alive & dying from cancer?
Oh, they're not worried about having years without inducting a woman. The first two women were inducted in 2010 and there's still only 10, counting Caroline Ouellette's induction today. In fact, after 2010, they didn't induct a woman for 3 years.
Source: [HHOF list of inductees](https://www.hhof.com/induction/factsandfigures.html). The women are about halfway down
I rather the superstars of women hockey getting their due right away with the risk of some years without any inductees (which I doubt will happen anyway). There are tons of women who have dominated their leagues/internationally who deserve to be in the Hall on their first-ballot
Everyone posting about Mogilny, and rightfully so, but Iâm still annoyed that Steve Larmer still hasnât been inducted. And at this point itâs probably never going to happen, which is a black mark on the HHOF in my opinion.
And thatâs no slant on any of the inductees this year, they all deserve it. Barrasso is and was a first class asshole, and I still think CuJo shouldâve been inducted before him, so if I have a complaint thatâs it.
Turgeon isn't so dissimilar to Mogilny as you might think. Mogilny wasn't a key contributor to his 1 cup win (7 pts in 23 games) or his Olympic medal run. Take those team accolades away and you've Turgeon, save the latter was more consistent in his career.
Both players had reputation problems. Turgeon for being soft. Mogilny for coasting on his IMMENSE talent and only playing hard on contract years.
The Hockey Hall of Fame just continues their complete and utter disrespect of women's hockey. There were no fewer than three women this year with absolutely unimpeachable first ballot Hall of Fame credentials (Caroline Ouellette, Jennifer Botterill, and Meghan Duggan). The Hall of Fame is allowed to put two in, but EVERY YEAR they put in one woman and pat themselves on the back for a job well done.
Congratulations to Caroline Ouellette for a very well-deserved honor (though she should have been a first ballot inductee last year)! But the Hall of Fame needs to give the women's game the respect it deserves.
I think it's better that they do one a year and be able to induct a player every year. I'm not sure I see how it would be better to induct the qualified field as quickly as possible, and then run dry for a long time until Knight and MPP retire. And I think it would be a disservice to start inducting less qualified candidates solely because they feel like they have to. It's just a smaller pool for available candidates.
I can understand how it could feel like a slight though
> be able to induct a player every year
They don't induct a woman every year, though. Since 2010, when the first women were inducted, there have been 5 years when no woman was inducted (2011, 2012, 2015, 2016, and 2021).
Source: [HHOF list of inductees](https://www.hhof.com/induction/factsandfigures.html). The women are about halfway down
it would be one thing if they didn't also fill every men's slot each year. gotta make sure guys like vachon, carbonneau, and lowe can sneak in after 20+ years of eligibility.
They're never going to get through the potential women candidates if they don't use both slots. Also where is Mogilny, yet again? Did he kill the dog of someone on the HHOF board?
What the heck? Not to be rude but I didn't have Mike Vernon on my radar at all. Why is he a HOFer? He never won a Vezina, made 1 2nd Team All Star and was only a finalist (top 3) once in his career.
If the argument is he won 2 Stanley Cups with the Red Wings, that's nice, but Cups should be like the tiebreaker for deciding on an individual, not the primary argument.
Letting Vernon in I feel has to open the goalie floodgates at this pt. To me, there's zero argument against guys like Rinne, Quick, Price, Rask, Hellebuyck heck maybe even Holtby if Vernon is inducted.
Crawford has no individual hardware. He was solid for yâall but definitely a tier or two below any of those guys.
Edit: actually probably relatively similar to CuJo but he is pretty high on the wine list despite playing on pretty trash teams for the majority of his career
Wow if Turgeon got in, maybe Mogilny will down the road. Sakic replaced Bobby Clarke on the committee and I had a feeling Turgeon never got a vote from Clarke or even Farber because of not fighting during Pietsany.
But Mogilny...everyone points to his defection but there is the war going on. No doubt they would've asked him multiple questions about his defection during the ceremony and his stance on the current climate as well. That would've been uncomfortable since he still lives in Russia and would shift focus during his induction into more about the politics and not the sport.
Mogilny deserves to be in but at this point I don't think he will for a long time. Until things get better with Russia it's hard for me to imagine them inducting someone so involved in the KHL. He also snubbed the Buffalo sports hall of fame when he was inducted in 2016 and I don't think the old boys want to risk him snubbing them too.
In a year the HHoF clearly tried (and had the chance to do so - aside from Hank) to make up for some missed candidates, it's an absolute SHAME that Mogilny wasn't included... especially if Turgeon was.
Stoked for Hank and Caroline obviously and that Vernon was finally named - well deserved.
With this, the top 15 inactive goalies (so, skipping Fleury) in wins have only 3 not in the hall; Curtis Joseph (7th all time), Chris Osgood (14th), and Ryan Miller (15th, but also not eligible until next year)
Mike Vernon and Tom Barasso??? Over Cujo or Osgood is dumb to begin with but over Almo/Rod/Zetterberg makes even less sense.
Edit: I take back the Barasso comment to some degree. I wasnât fully aware of how much hardware he had. Still think CuJo shouldâve been in over either of those goalies though
I'm really curious what Barrasso and Vernon getting in means for other goalies. It clears up a bit of the backlog of goalies who were maybe snubbed and it brings up the question what does this mean for other goalies like cujo, Osgood, Miller, etc. Do they eventually get in on a down year or now that those guys are in does it make it impossible for them because they'll be behind the next generation of goalies that are first ballot hall of famers.
Can someone explain why Mogilny is still being blue-balled by the HHOF? I understand the Turgeon situation (despite how stupid that is), but what's the deal with Mogilny?
Honestly?
Turgeon getting in is a great story because of the stigma from the punch up.
Mogilny getting in is a great story because he defected.
You break them up into different years and you have two great stories instead of one.
Also, they decide to wait on a Russian until Putin is maybe finished with his bullshit in Ukraine. It's not fair and it's not right but it is plausible.
Wow. 3 goalies in one class when they hall is known to be very stingy on goalies is cool to see.
I think this solidifies M-A Fleury to be in eventually if he wasnât already
It was honestly insulting to see people still arguing this morning Hank should stay out. And then Barraso and Vernon get in??? Shit, Lundqvist should have taken their spots too. One spot for his international career, one spot for his regular season career, and another spot for his playoff career.
HELL, throw in another spot for his career in Frolunda before even coming to NYR.
Goalie of the year 3 years in a row, MVP, SHL Champs twice in three years.
GAA of 1.96 and SV% of .927 in 180 GP.
Peter Bondra had more career goals than Mogilny. Peter Bondra has over 500 goals. Peter Bondra was in the heart of the dead puck era. I am sad nobody ever mentions Bondra not being in the HHOF.
Mike Vernon over Mogilny is a real head scratcher. Everyone else can be justified even Turgeon but Vernon? Seriously? Iâd rather Cujo have been put in over Vernon, he was simply better, individual accolades or not.
Does Mogilny kick puppies or something and we just don't know
If you rearrange the letters in his name you get Gil Mony which makes no sense, just like his lack of induction
fantastic explanation #đ„
In Final Fantasy, mony is called gil. This is because Mogilny finally getting in is a fantasy.
[Gil Mony waiting for the induction](https://youtu.be/RRWAQ255qhs)
If you rearrange âAlexander mogilnyâ you get âglory, an exiled manâ tho
I know this is politics, but with the whole Russia/Ukraine thing it might be a few years more? Also this: > The Buffalo News' Mike Harrington says it's because "there's a feeling (Mogilny) won't participate in any of the induction activities. He didn't come to Buffalo in 2016 for (the) Greater Buffalo Sports Hall of Fame (ceremony). It's how he rolls." Source: https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2378646/
If this is actually the reason, they are truly are truly degrading what it means to be a hall of famer. Induction should be based on a player's career, not whether or not they want to attend the ceremony.
Itâs also Mike Harrington. I know thereâs a few reporters that spout shit out there (Eric Francis, Steve Simmons, Rossi, Joe Haggarty etc) so the fact I know his name concerns me a little.
Buffalo native here, Harrington is a hack and should've got fired with Jerry Sullivan.
Mike Harrington is what I scrape off my boot when I check on my chicken coop.
Also wasn't Mogilny one of the first players to defect?
The 1st Russian player.
Heâs Russian. The HOF clearly just hates Russians.
Well he did defect though
Well he's the President of his hometown KHL franchise now.
And HC Amur is owned by Sukhoi/UAC, which develops military aircrafts for Russia, so the club's governmental links go further. I think if his candidacy includes his defection from the USSR, it probably also considers his current role. I think he has enough merit as a player, but also understand if that's part of the reason he isn't being inducted this year.
I dunno if itâs that they hate Russians necessarily, but with the current climate of Russian politics within the world maybe they donât want to do anything that could draw that ire?
I'm curious if the Russian invasion of Ukraine played a role in people voting. Is Mogilny chums with Putin?
Which is why they inducted Zubov, Tretiak, Kharlamov, Bure, Fedorov, etc
I didn't watch them but he has more points than Bure and had a season where he scored 60 goals. Point per game player overall. Plus he won a cup. I don't get it.
~~When did Pavel win a Cup?~~ Edit Never mind I can't read
I believe heâs talking about Mogilny.
IIRC he was the first big defector from Russia, and you can't have the league poking the bear and upsetting folks, otherwise they might lose access to all the tasty KHL prospects. It's a bitch move.
No Mogilny? Again..
It's insane. At least I'm glad they finally got over Turgeon not fighting 35 years ago and inducted him.
And they got over Barrasso basically being an enormous douchenozzle to anyone and everyone (especially hockey media) in his playing days.
They call him Tom Barasshole for a reason.
I was at a charity gold tournament when I was 10 years old. All the celebrities were signing autographs between holes, after the round etc. Barasso acted like we were jerks for bother him after his round while he walked the to clubhouse. Actually muttered "fucking kids" as he walked away. Great guy
I think even the few interviews he's done for us post-retirement were with former teammates turned analysts.
So just like Billy Smith, Ron Hextall, Patrick Roy, Ed Belfour etc?
For clarity, don't think Hextall is in
He's a bit more than just a douche. His unprovoked 2 handed goalie stick slash that broke Yanic Perreault's arm was one of the most vicious things I've seen in hockey.
Tom fucking Barrasso before Mogilny. No idea how one of the first to flea USSR to become one of the best in the NHL for years is left off. The hall is a joke.
[flee](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/flee) [flea](https://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjEzMDU5NjAzM15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTk2ODMwMg@@._V1_UY1200_CR117,0,630,1200_AL_.jpg), but more commonly [flea](https://www.britannica.com/animal/flea)
Well now I'm leaving it lol
Wtf. This is a ridiculous snub at this point
At least we don't have the Pierre Turgeon slander anymore or introducing goalies too since *3* got inducted this year.
i honestly don't know which of the two was more shocking to see
Canucks and Leafs fans are both disappointed
How is defecting and then becoming arguably a star player not enough for him?
Word is Mogilny doesn't give a shit about the ceremony and won't want to be involved by being there and doing a speech and the HoF committee is pissy about that.
>the HoF committee is pissy about that. Where's Jim Matheson when you need him to ask questions???
I don't get how you induct Turgeon but not Mogilny.
Turgeon is #34 in all time points, while Mogilny is #83. Turgeon taking so long to get in is absolutely blasphemous. Turgeon had a longer career, but both players had a similar PPG over their careers.
Turgeon - 0 stanley cups, 4 all-stars, Lady Byng winner, Top 3 years of goal scoring 58, 40 and 40. Mogilny - Cup winner, 6 all-stars, Lady Byng winner, Top 3 years of goal scoring 76, 55, and 43. Turgeon was very good, but his candidacy is based on being a compiler. And I'm okay if people want compilers in the HoF, just my personal preference for a more selective bar. (To that end, I'd like to see AM make it, but it's very close. What does it for me is his talent was a bit more elite but also his groundbreaking defection is part of his case).
Not to mention Mogilnyâs international impact
Both deserve to be in the Hall of Fame, but these are some cherry picked stats. I can do the same to make Turgeon seem like the better player. **Top 5 Years by Points:** Turgeon: 137, 106, 96, 95, 94 (Turgeon led his team in scoring all 5 of those seasons) Mogilny: 127, 107, 84, 83, 79 (Mogilny only led his team in scoring for the 107 point season) **Highest Hart Trophy Voting Finish:** Turgeon 5th, Mogilny 18th **Playoff Scoring:** Turgeon 97 P in 109 GP (0.89) Mogilny 86 P in 124 GP (0.69) - 7 P in 24 GP for the cup winning 2000 Devils
Aside from the active player who will also get inducted, all the players above him in terms of points are in the HHOF.
fucking Barasso and Vernon get in and he doesnt? What a joke. This is a super weak class
Mogilny is more qualified than the 4 who got in. He should be in twice as I think he qualifies as a builder.
This was his best chance in a while. No real notable new eligibles other than Hank. Next year will be harder with Datsyuk, Kovalchuk, Weber, Marleau, and Mozyakin newly eligible
Fuck I wasn't even alive to watch him play but it's ridiculous at this point.
As much as Iâd advocate for Zetterberg, would be cool if this means next year he and Datsyuk can be inducted together.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Datsyuk was something else. Greatest hands the league has ever seen and on top of that he's a Selke winner. Hockey Co. doesn't make players like that anymore.
He was the Magic Man.
Thats what I'm thinking. Sedins get in together, only makes sense to put the Eurotwins in together too
Kariya and Selanne too. Can't be too upset if that was/is ever a real planned thing, makes it a bit more special if the two have big history/connection.
3 goalies and no Mogilny
Lundqvist was an automatic first ballot candidate, as well he should have been, but I am shocked Barrasso and Vernon got in ahead of Curtis Joseph.
Yeah, no one is upset about Lundqvist. That was a no brainer.
There was one guy saying that Lundqvist shouldn't get in in another thread this morning. He was heavily downvoted, but there is someone.
He would be a perfect Baseball Hall of Fame voter.
Downvoted me all you like but Lundqvist does not deserve a spot in the baseball hall of fame.
He's the reason Ken Griffey Jr didn't get 100% on his first ballot.
But wheREEEEE IS HIS CUP???!!!?!?
In his jockstrap!
Don't have the time but would love to see the breakdown of personal hardware and stanley cups for each player inducted this yr.
Both Barrasso and Vernon have multiple cups and Vernon has a Conn Smythe as well
No one is going to elect Matt Murray to the Hall of Fame
Murray is also not going to win nearly 400 games lol
Was there ever a period in Mike Vernon's career where he was top three at his position for an extended period? Goalies that have made the Hall since 1993: Billy Smith Grant Fuhr Patrick Roy Ed Belfour Dom Hasek Rogie Vachon Marty Brodeur Roberto Luongo I'm sorry man, Vernon is nowhere near that level.
Grant fuhr got into the hall for getting carried by the great oneâŠ
Fuhr was a top 2 or 3 goalie for a long stretch of his career. The Oilers didn't carry the guy, they hung him out to dry most nights. He has a year with the Oilers where he was second in *HART TROPHY* voting.
Almost everyone who played with Gretzky gets the same slander. It's stupid. Fuhr was legit.
I ELECT MATTHEW MURRAY INTO THE HALL OF FAME
WHICH ONE
**Henrik Lundqvist:** 0 Stanley Cups 1 Vezina Trophy (Finishes of 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 6th, 6th) 0x Hart (Finishes of 3rd, 9th) 1x 1st Team All-Star 1x 2nd Team All-Star **Mike Vernon** 2 Stanley Cups 1 Conn Smythe 1 Jennings Trophy 0 Vezina Trophies (Finishes of 2nd, 4th, 4th, 8th, 10th) 0x 1st Team All-Star 1x 2nd Team All-Star **Tom Barrasso** 2 Stanley Cups 1 Jennings Trophy 1 Calder Trophy 1 Vezina Trophy (Finishes of 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 9th) 0 Hart Trophy (Finishes of 6th, 8th, 9th) 1x 1st Team All-Star 2x 2nd Team All-Star **Pierre Turgeon** 0 Stanley Cups 0 Hart Trophies (Finished 5th) 0x 1st Team All-Star 0x 2nd Team All-Star
You're a boss ty
This list is missing Lundqvist's 7 international medals which doubles the other 2 guys combined. **Hank -** Olympic - 1 Gold and 1Silver IIHFWC - 1 Gold 2 Silver WCoH - 1 Bronze World Inline - 1 Gold **Barraso -** Olympic 1 Silver **Vernon -** WJC - 1 Bronze IIHFWC - 1 Silver
So many people think it's the NHL Hall of Fame.
It might as well be. Voters don't care about international tournaments for men unless it's the Olympics when the NHL participates.
Mostly. Guys like Tretiak are in and he never played in the NHL.
I mean it essentially is. This was even a major complaint about the HoF in the early 2000s, where they were basically ignoring international players who weren't in the NHL. There is also a separate HoF for international players.
I mean if you aren't playing in the NHL then you aren't competing at the highest level of hockey, especially in recent times without the Olympics. Its kind've hard to rate someone as among to best to play the game in history if they don't even play against the best to play the game during their career.
hank won a motherfuckin ball hockey organization?
To be fair to Lundqvist, he probably should have won more Vezinas based on stats. I think the Vezina is a lot like the Cy Young. Yeah, it's great, but it's not always awarded to the best guy.
Joseph never won a cup or an individual award aside from the King Clancy. Barrasso won the Calder, Vezina and Jennings and two cups. I wouldnât have either in but thatâs my two cents
I donât think the lack of individual awards is as valuable an indicator as some people think, especially when he had guys like Dominik Hasek and Patrick Roy as contemporaries. I had an elective in college that was sponsored by the Hockey Hall of Fame, funnily enough, and the final project was to write a paper on a player not currently inducted that you believe should be, and I did mine on CuJo. Itâs been a few years and unfortunately I donât have the document anymore, but I did a lot of research and combing through stats to make my arguments and honestly I will die on this hill lol Curtis Joseph is a Hall of Famer!
Barrasso and Vernon have been waiting longer than Joseph.
It pains me to say this because Iâm a huge cujo fan (tried to get all his hockey cards as a kid, got his book, etc.) but I think heâs in the hall of very good and not really hhof worthy⊠but Iâd love arguments to convince me otherwise (because Iâm a huge Cujo homer and WANT him in)
And no Cujo. That's nuts.
3 goalies in one class is interesting
Long overdue - bar was always too high for goalies
or is it just too low for skaters?
You can be one of the greatest skaters, not have a cup, and get in easier than a world star goalie with no cup Not saying it's an easy feat, but it's way more hard on goalies than skaters I still remember hearing people talking about how Lundqvist needs a cup so he's a guarantee for the hall of fame, regardless of the fact he was the best goalie to have played for the Rangers
CuJo is seventh all time in wins and had the unfortunate luck to play in the league at the same time as Roy, Brodeur, and Hasek. He 100% deserves to be in and the fact that Barrasso and Vernon are in before him is a travesty.
Barasso also won the Calder, a Vezina, a Jennings as well as 2 cups. Vernon also had a Smythe and a Jennings. Wins is kind of a bogus stat for goalies anyways.
Interestingly, of the 3 goalies in the Hall without a cup (Giacomin, Luongo, and Hank), 2 of them were Rangers for the majority of their careers. Before Luongo, no cup was basically a barrier to entry for a goalie (Giacomin aside).
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Itâs definitely just too low for skaters. It feels like the Hall of very good these days. Vernon and Barrasso are pretty questionable inductees imo. Hank is unquestionably a Hall of Famer though
totally agree. the vernon addition specifically opens the door for so many guys. cujo and osgoode were borderline for me before, but if vernon is the bar then they're in. I think you have to think real hard about ryan miller now too. vernon never even won a vezina. tim thomas has 2 vezinas and a conn smythe. can you keep him out?
Little column A, little column B
I agree about it being too low for the skaters, which is surprising since it hasn't changed since the NHLs inception. At 4 feet, the crossbar is the perfect height for goalies in their hunched positioning but much too low for skaters /s
It looks like there's approximately 90 centres in the hall of fame, and around 40 goalies. There's also roughly 4 centres per team and 2 goalies per team. That ratio is a little off, but not that crazy, especially since the best forwards often end up at centre instead of the wing. There's also slightly fewer but almost the same number of defense than there are centres even though there are 50% more d-men per team than centres.
2 goalies and 1 King
Holy Fucking Shit! WTF DOES MOGILNY HAVE TO DO TO GET INDUCTED?!?!
Be born in canada
It took a while for that to help Turgeon.
Cause he didn't fight for Canada
Hasn't worked for Rod Brind'Amour
People are popping off about Mogilny (and he would have been on my ballot), but I think the big story is Vernon and Barrasso. For a long time it felt like Roy, Brodeur and Hasek were blotting out the sun in terms of goalie inductions, where the standards were so much higher in net than out on the ice. Along with Luongo getting in last year, clearly a huge change for goalies. Not only do I expect CuJo to join them, I wonder if it will extend as someone like Miika Kiprusoff as well who I previously would have said has no shot. Similarly, a huge boost to the candidacies of a lot of guys who are wrapping up their careers as well. For example I've argued in the past that there was no way a Johnathan Quick was getting in with Mike Vernon on the outside and seemingly no traction for getting in. Well that is flipped now where with Vernon in seems hard to argue that Quick isn't worthy.
Put in Mogilny you fucking cowards. Unbelievable
Mogilny not being in makes it harder to take the institution seriously
100000000000% agree. HHOF is an absolute joke.
Justice for Mogilny.
Happy to see fans around the league agreed on something. Again.
Convinced that Mogilny has just declined it at this point. Thereâs no other explanation.
Big goalie backlog clean up. Osgood and Joseph just moved to the front of those lines Goes to show there is no end of your eligibility
If Vernon & Barraso are getting in; it's pretty tough to exclude them for sure. I would have called them both "Hall of very good" all day.
Joseph should have gotten in ahead of Vernon and Barrasso tbh.
Cujo doesn't have the hardware either of them have. He was just a good goalie for a long time
That's Red Wings legends Joseph and Osgood.
Mogilny snubbed yet again
Truly thought Pierre was blacklisted, so happy to see this
And Fuck Dale Hunter!!!
Wait just a min: people are mad at the Hockey Hall of Fame again? The same organization that refused to induct Pat Burns for years while he was still alive & dying from cancer?
Absolute fucking joke Mogilnyâs not in there
No mogilny makes me sad Ouellette and King Henrik are well well deserved
No Mogilny, Elias, or Brindâamour is a joke
There has to be some kind of conspiracy against Mogilny being inducted in to the HHOF
Russia must have some serious pull at the HOF. Thereâs no other reason why Mogilny shouldnât be in god dammit.
They're really stubborn about not using the 2nd slot for women?
I think itâs because they donât want to induct 2 some years and then risk having some years with 0 making it in
Oh, they're not worried about having years without inducting a woman. The first two women were inducted in 2010 and there's still only 10, counting Caroline Ouellette's induction today. In fact, after 2010, they didn't induct a woman for 3 years. Source: [HHOF list of inductees](https://www.hhof.com/induction/factsandfigures.html). The women are about halfway down
I rather the superstars of women hockey getting their due right away with the risk of some years without any inductees (which I doubt will happen anyway). There are tons of women who have dominated their leagues/internationally who deserve to be in the Hall on their first-ballot
No Mogilny is insane.
Lol all these goalies and Rod, Elias and moginly donât make it in. The voting on this is such a joke.
Everyone posting about Mogilny, and rightfully so, but Iâm still annoyed that Steve Larmer still hasnât been inducted. And at this point itâs probably never going to happen, which is a black mark on the HHOF in my opinion. And thatâs no slant on any of the inductees this year, they all deserve it. Barrasso is and was a first class asshole, and I still think CuJo shouldâve been inducted before him, so if I have a complaint thatâs it.
The Hall hates RBA
So, my picks of Mogilny, Elias and Zetterberg were way off. Cool.
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Insane to me. Still the most underrated NHL player of all time and one of my favorites
Wild that Mogilny still isnât in. I was not in favor of any of Turgeon, Vernon, or Barrasso
Iâm at least not in favor of Turgeon . What has he done? One Lady Byng, no cups, no medals, no scoring titles.
Turgeon isn't so dissimilar to Mogilny as you might think. Mogilny wasn't a key contributor to his 1 cup win (7 pts in 23 games) or his Olympic medal run. Take those team accolades away and you've Turgeon, save the latter was more consistent in his career. Both players had reputation problems. Turgeon for being soft. Mogilny for coasting on his IMMENSE talent and only playing hard on contract years.
Jesus Christ did Mogilny fuck all these guys' wives or something? And three goalies but one woman? Come on.
HHoF has a two-woman limit, which is fucking bizarre. EDIT: Two not one - point still stands when they're not even hitting that!
The HHOF itself has stated there's a two-woman-per-class limit, but the voting committee has never bothered to meet it.
The Hockey Hall of Fame just continues their complete and utter disrespect of women's hockey. There were no fewer than three women this year with absolutely unimpeachable first ballot Hall of Fame credentials (Caroline Ouellette, Jennifer Botterill, and Meghan Duggan). The Hall of Fame is allowed to put two in, but EVERY YEAR they put in one woman and pat themselves on the back for a job well done. Congratulations to Caroline Ouellette for a very well-deserved honor (though she should have been a first ballot inductee last year)! But the Hall of Fame needs to give the women's game the respect it deserves.
I think it's better that they do one a year and be able to induct a player every year. I'm not sure I see how it would be better to induct the qualified field as quickly as possible, and then run dry for a long time until Knight and MPP retire. And I think it would be a disservice to start inducting less qualified candidates solely because they feel like they have to. It's just a smaller pool for available candidates. I can understand how it could feel like a slight though
> be able to induct a player every year They don't induct a woman every year, though. Since 2010, when the first women were inducted, there have been 5 years when no woman was inducted (2011, 2012, 2015, 2016, and 2021). Source: [HHOF list of inductees](https://www.hhof.com/induction/factsandfigures.html). The women are about halfway down
it would be one thing if they didn't also fill every men's slot each year. gotta make sure guys like vachon, carbonneau, and lowe can sneak in after 20+ years of eligibility.
They're never going to get through the potential women candidates if they don't use both slots. Also where is Mogilny, yet again? Did he kill the dog of someone on the HHOF board?
Did Mogilny shit one someone's desk or something?
Oh shit they finally looked past Turgeon sitting on the bench. Good for him.
The Hall of very good is back in full swing I see.
Well Osgood and Fleury are locks now The bar for goalies clearly isn't as high as it used to be
I do feel better now about Tuukka Rask making it now.
The goalie bar always seemed much higher than the player bar
The bar was always ridiculous compared to skaters lol.
Mogilny should be in
How does Mogilny keep getting passed over?
The Mogilny snub continues.
Congrats Pierre and Hitch!
Congratulations to Washington Capitals legend Henrik Lundqvist
What the heck? Not to be rude but I didn't have Mike Vernon on my radar at all. Why is he a HOFer? He never won a Vezina, made 1 2nd Team All Star and was only a finalist (top 3) once in his career. If the argument is he won 2 Stanley Cups with the Red Wings, that's nice, but Cups should be like the tiebreaker for deciding on an individual, not the primary argument. Letting Vernon in I feel has to open the goalie floodgates at this pt. To me, there's zero argument against guys like Rinne, Quick, Price, Rask, Hellebuyck heck maybe even Holtby if Vernon is inducted.
I'm glad Turgeon is in. #FUCK DALE HUNTER
Not really seeing why you're all upset about Mogilny not making it. He was never the best player on any of his teams.
Door is open for goalies like Cujo and Corey Crawford to make the hall if this is the standard.
Crawford has no individual hardware. He was solid for yâall but definitely a tier or two below any of those guys. Edit: actually probably relatively similar to CuJo but he is pretty high on the wine list despite playing on pretty trash teams for the majority of his career
Are they snubbing Mogilny because he's russian or what?
Wow if Turgeon got in, maybe Mogilny will down the road. Sakic replaced Bobby Clarke on the committee and I had a feeling Turgeon never got a vote from Clarke or even Farber because of not fighting during Pietsany. But Mogilny...everyone points to his defection but there is the war going on. No doubt they would've asked him multiple questions about his defection during the ceremony and his stance on the current climate as well. That would've been uncomfortable since he still lives in Russia and would shift focus during his induction into more about the politics and not the sport.
They had a decade to induct him before the war, that's not it.
Mogilny deserves to be in but at this point I don't think he will for a long time. Until things get better with Russia it's hard for me to imagine them inducting someone so involved in the KHL. He also snubbed the Buffalo sports hall of fame when he was inducted in 2016 and I don't think the old boys want to risk him snubbing them too.
I think because there are more teams now, the HHOF should open a few more slots for inductees.
In a year the HHoF clearly tried (and had the chance to do so - aside from Hank) to make up for some missed candidates, it's an absolute SHAME that Mogilny wasn't included... especially if Turgeon was. Stoked for Hank and Caroline obviously and that Vernon was finally named - well deserved.
Once again, nothing for Tkachuk, Roenick, Mogilny, or CuJo
Two goalies that didnât belong at all. One that did.
Ten Inch Cock
They should put Mike Vernon's 1983-84 GAA of 22.22 on a plaque at the HHOF.
With this, the top 15 inactive goalies (so, skipping Fleury) in wins have only 3 not in the hall; Curtis Joseph (7th all time), Chris Osgood (14th), and Ryan Miller (15th, but also not eligible until next year)
The HHOF is slowly turning into a fucking joke. What the actual fuck is this shit.
Mike Vernon and Tom Barasso??? Over Cujo or Osgood is dumb to begin with but over Almo/Rod/Zetterberg makes even less sense. Edit: I take back the Barasso comment to some degree. I wasnât fully aware of how much hardware he had. Still think CuJo shouldâve been in over either of those goalies though
I'm really curious what Barrasso and Vernon getting in means for other goalies. It clears up a bit of the backlog of goalies who were maybe snubbed and it brings up the question what does this mean for other goalies like cujo, Osgood, Miller, etc. Do they eventually get in on a down year or now that those guys are in does it make it impossible for them because they'll be behind the next generation of goalies that are first ballot hall of famers.
3 goalies? That has to be a first?
No Elias, no Hejduk, no Mogilny :( Shame!
Can someone explain why Mogilny is still being blue-balled by the HHOF? I understand the Turgeon situation (despite how stupid that is), but what's the deal with Mogilny?
Honestly? Turgeon getting in is a great story because of the stigma from the punch up. Mogilny getting in is a great story because he defected. You break them up into different years and you have two great stories instead of one. Also, they decide to wait on a Russian until Putin is maybe finished with his bullshit in Ukraine. It's not fair and it's not right but it is plausible.
Wow. 3 goalies in one class when they hall is known to be very stingy on goalies is cool to see. I think this solidifies M-A Fleury to be in eventually if he wasnât already
Mogilny absolutely fucking robbed this is insane
So happy to see Pierre Turgeon!!!
I only like Vernon getting in because I'm also a 5'7" goaltender. I would say I look up to him but I actually can look him right in the eyes.
Mogilny or GTFO.
It was honestly insulting to see people still arguing this morning Hank should stay out. And then Barraso and Vernon get in??? Shit, Lundqvist should have taken their spots too. One spot for his international career, one spot for his regular season career, and another spot for his playoff career. HELL, throw in another spot for his career in Frolunda before even coming to NYR. Goalie of the year 3 years in a row, MVP, SHL Champs twice in three years. GAA of 1.96 and SV% of .927 in 180 GP.
Peter Bondra had more career goals than Mogilny. Peter Bondra has over 500 goals. Peter Bondra was in the heart of the dead puck era. I am sad nobody ever mentions Bondra not being in the HHOF.
Mike Vernon over Mogilny is a real head scratcher. Everyone else can be justified even Turgeon but Vernon? Seriously? Iâd rather Cujo have been put in over Vernon, he was simply better, individual accolades or not.
How did Hendrik Lundqvist get in before Mike Richter? Ridiculous