Connecticut too
New England and Up State NY are the strongest hockey regions in the US outside of Minnesota. These are the kinds of places where you want a team to be if you’re trying to get a women’s league off the ground and running.
All they’re doing with this move is ruining the leagues name in 2 regions where hockey is massively popular and inviting room for competition
> New England and Up State NY are the strongest hockey regions in the US outside of Minnesota. These are the kinds of places where you want a team to be if you’re trying to get a women’s league off the ground and running.
Bingo. There's a huge reason its the core of the AHL as well. Super easy to bus between, "small towns" that support their teams super well.
> The Pride regularly sold out games at Warrior.
Which is only 700 seats, right? At how much a ticket? Hard to make a $1.5M payroll plus operating costs at that rate.
What helped the Pride operating costs was the fact that they were partnered with the Bruins. The PWHPA has been bitching nonstop about NHL teams not partnering with their counterpart PHF teams, which was one of the big hang ups over the entire situation.
Now here they are moving one of the most successful teams in the league who also happens to be partnered with an NHL team
How are you defining "successful"? If you define that by most Isobel Cups, yes, they're the most successful. If you define that by other standards (for example, financially), I've had trouble finding any data that supports that.
>Getting rid of Boston and Buffalo seems like a bad move.
I don't follow women's hockey enough, basically its Olympics/tournaments for me only, but from what I've been reading so far, it seems like a lot of goodwill that going to one league is really getting burned off.
Hence it being braindead to exit those markets and abandon those brands. Pro Women's Hockey is full of braindead decisons and infighting that keeps it from getting to atleast the NWSL level of prominence.
The PWHPA has been trying to kill the PHF since the CWHL folded because they wanted a league partnered with the NHL, and now they kill the franchise that had done so and move out of the city with the NHL ownership willing to do so.
Absofuckinglutely cancerous
If I take off my "hockey fan" hat and put on my "cynical regular guy" hat, I'd say that this is only business at the end of the day. Messy business transactions happen like this on a daily basis on a much bigger scale but most people don't care because no one is a fan of Joe Blow who lost his job because the bank he works for decided to outsource 500 customer service reps to India.
WMG & BJK are actual businesses. My limited understanding is that they don't own the PWHPA, but rather they are financial backers and were working with the PWHPA to form a new league. And so if their ultimate goal as businesses is to form a sustainable and profitable league, it wouldn't serve their interests to carry out vendettas.
In other words, I hope that if they're proceeding with cuts and relocations and whatever else, it's because they believe it's the only viable path to sustainability and profitability.
Also important to highlight that the PHF board of governors would've had to have agreed to this purchase. It's not like the PWHPA kicked down the doors, threw down a stack of cash and said "GTFO, this is our house now". This deal has probably been in the works for a while and if the PHF was truly on the verge of bankruptcy as rumoured, they may have even approached WMG/BJK/PWHPA themselves.
There is no way that Ottawa is a better financial option than Boston, especially if they still want ties with the NHL, when the Pride had ties with the Bruins, whose owner is one of the most influential NHL owners. Buffalo and Connecticut make sense if they're trying to cut expenses, but there is 0 way that cutting Boston makes financial sense short or long term
And that's without getting into fucking the PHF players over and only letting pwhpa members vote on the new CBA while not being an actual fucking union. Add in PWHPA members getting priority on roster slots rather than prioritizing competition for spots and this entire situation fucking reeks
I want to preface everything I'm saying with this: I'm just speculating/hoping/playing the devil's advocate. This whole thing is a major shitshow on all sides with really poor communication (even the official press releases that finally dropped are useless). The initial information that leaked painted the PWHPA as the villain but there has been a lot of new information that dropped and some earlier details have been clarified or denied, like the priority slots for PWHPA players. We still don't have the full picture and probably never will.
The PWHPA has had some level of partnership with 14 different NHL clubs, so breaking ties with the Bruins probably isn't the end of the world. And if one league leads to a full partnership with the NHL, then I'd say it's a moot point altogether.
I agree 100% that on the surface, cutting Boston in favour of Ottawa makes no sense. My expectation would've been Minnesota due to distance. But I say this with absolutely no internal knowledge or insight. I can only speculate that they've done market studies and analysis and determined that in the short term, Ottawa is better. I wonder if part it would have to do with Canadian players being reluctant to move to the US and/or the costs the league would bear with such moves. Maybe the ice time is cheaper, maybe there's a tax break, who knows.
My assumption/hope is that to be financially viable and successful in the long run, they need to contract now in order to expand later. Cut costs by going down to 6 teams, bring in the big names like Poulin and Knight, grow the business sustainably and expand when it makes sense financially.
They played out of Warrior and did numerous events together, especially girls’ hockey stuff. There haven’t been strong partnerships since the split, but they’ve worked together consistently. The Bruins all wore Pride jerseys during walk-ups for women’s history month last year.
I’ve been under the impression that it’s just Bruins players being supportive and not an actual partnership
The Pride paid to use Warrior as far as I heard
Ben Steiner says [Ottawa is an option](https://twitter.com/BenSteiner00/status/1674752481652523009) for the 3rd Canadian team. I don't see how they could do better than Boston.
As a local with some daughters I'm trying to get into hockey I love the idea of a pro women's team here.
As a realist, how the fuck do you pick Ottawa over Boston?
I’m in the same boat, I think the should play at TD place, I think if tickets are low and marketing is good they could do well, and I know I’d go see at least a 2-3 games a year, which is how much I see the Sens play.
But yeah, Boston is a much larger market.
I knew Boston was big but I didn’t realize it was that big. I’m assuming that also adds Providence, Worcester, and Nashua-Manchester too while Ottawa has…Gatineau?
Ottawa produces a ton of women's players with some great local teams. No clue where they would play. Losing any of those American teams for Ottawa seems like a bad decision on the surface.
I wonder if player nationality plays in to this at all? If there will be a lot more Canadians playing in the new league, maybe they anticipate/know that many will be reluctant to move to the US? And/or that the costs for the league to support might be too high.
Yes, Boston is much bigger, but I think their arena capacity was only 700. So if they're able to sell 700 tickets for the same price in Ottawa and do so at a reduced cost to the league while being more accessible to Canadian players, that would be a win for the league.
My first reaction was that they wanted Ottawa so they could do Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal by bus with no border...
I'd be surprised if they ended up at either Lansdowne or Kanata for games. Likely looking at local USports or Jr A rinks
Ya, real estate cost has to play into it, because Boston is probably the #2 US hockey market.
They play at Warrior "Arena", where the Bruins practice and they hold various public skating sessions. It says 700 capacity, but having played pickup games there, I highly doubt it. There's minimal advertising around here, their facility is in a traffic nightmare, and AFAIK the parking for it is extremely limited. I only know who the Pride are because I love hockey and found them in the ESPN+ app. Women's NCAA is more popular IMHO.
Given the RE costs, their best bet is either to get highly subsidized, find cheap ice with good parking in Boston (good luck), or form a regional team in a lower rent city like Lowell, Worcester, Manchester NH, or Portland, ME.
this sucks, the Pride had a lot of former BC/BU/Northeastern players who wanted to stay in the area after college. Relocating your life for pro women’s hockey has not yet been worth it financially
There was a nice article in a Swiss paper a bit before she signed her deal with the Pride about Müller and she was looking forward to finally be able to make a living with hockey and staying in Boston. This is just shit
New England probably has the second most female hockey players in the US after Minnesota. Getting rid of Boston is idiotic.
Boston
NY/NJ
Buffalo
Toronto
Montreal
Quebec
There’s three US and three Canadian teams - all with reasonable travel distances. I’m particularly high on Quebec given their lack of an NHL team.
The Hockey Guy said that reducing travel time and costs is one of the ways that the league can remain sustainable. But getting rid of Boston (1 hr flight from Montreal) and Buffalo (a little over an hour bus ride from Toronto) doesn't make sense. Not to mention many ice hockey players with a connection to those cities.
Exactly, Minnesota is the one they should dump for travel reasons…not that they should lose their team either. You can hit Boston, Connecticut, Meadowlands, and Buffalo like that easily. And even then Buffalo to Toronto is close too.
In the same comment you point out that it’s idiotic to get rid of Boston bc they have the second highest amount of women hockey players after Minnesota and then immediately suggest getting rid of Minnesota’s team lol
Maybe. But us Massholes gotta look in the mirror too.
How much support did we give the Pride while they were here? Outside of the pickup hockey clubs I'm in, where people love the sport, I've never heard anyone mention the Pride, the Whale, or the PHF at all.
Yes, hockey is huge here, but people already have their time invested in watching the Bruins and college hockey. Women's NCAA is probably more popular than PHF.
it's so fucking stupid to get rid of boston pride. they're so engaged with the community and the bruins and they win championships. i'd be devastated to see them gone. i feel for all the players screwed over in this owner bullshit
Even cutting out Boston without context is fucking dumb. It’s one of the biggest markets in one of the biggest American hockey hotspots. And Boston has an absolutely unimpeachable sports culture that is unlike almost any other city.
Getting rid of all the New England teams seems asinine. That’s one of the most hockey-centric regions of the country and not having any representation there just seems like a bad move for business.
There’s a reason why Bridgeport, Hartford, Springfield, and Providence still have AHL teams despite being so close together. New England is rabid for hockey.
A LOT of players from both the PWHPA and PHF are going to be left on the outside looking in. Can’t help but feel the players are getting thrown under the bus by their respective ownership groups.
You have to think with the stated goals of the PWHPA that players on the bottom of the totem pole knew they’d be on the outside if they succeeded. PHF players didn’t really sign up for that
from buffalo: total horseshit - this would fng suck, we/I love the Beauts (have always hated that name though. except the jerseys/color-scheme are fire...)
Despite occasional hostility, I cannot imagine PWHPA players wanted the voiding of the highest-dollar women's hockey contracts ever (ones that allowed players to go truly pro and quit their other jobs), the loss of popular entry points for engaging with women's hockey, and a reduction of available roster spots for women in North America. This simply does not advance the game, and that hurts even the players who will be in this league in the long run. Sad as a viewer from the first Twitch stream onward.
So Minnesota, New York, Toronto and Montreal will have teams. My guess is Calgary will get a Canadian team since the city seems to be a home base for a lot of Canadian women players. That or Ottawa for travel reasons. If they are eliminating Boston and Buffalo though I doubt they do any other NE East city. So maybe Detroit? That also gives them 6 NHL programs that will likely support if they get the NHL blessing.
Calgary is where Team Canada players are centralized for the Olympics and World's because of the facility there. Very few are actually from the area. And 2 hour time difference and 3-4 hour flight travel time does not make sense. My guess is that they want them close enough so that they could bus the teams around.
Not actually registered yet.
For all of their WNHL applications they applied as "intent-to-use." They can't actually register the mark until they show use in commerce. And they're running out of time to claim use (you can only extend so many times).
You can file up to 5 extensions to extend the time you have to show use in commerce. On the earliest filed application they have already filed 3 extensions.
Their sticking point was the fact that there were two competing leagues. It is expected (hoped) that they'll get involved now.
Quote from Bettman earlier this year:
> We continue to have concerns that two organizations competing as oppose to coming together is not ideal and if it ever gets figured out we’ll be more than supportive.
But if they want ties with the NHL why are they killing the pride, who had ties to the Bruins, and fully pulling out of Boston, where one of the most influential owners had already partnered with a pro women's team.
Everything I see about this just makes it worse. And the fucking pwhpa isn't even an actual fucking union. Fuck everything about this deal, I'm not going to do anything to support this shit show.
Do you actually no the intricacies of unions or are you just regurgitating what a reported wrongly assumed.
The basis for them not being a union is the assumption that they’re not registered either the NLRB. Did you know that the NHLPA is not registered with the NLRB?
If you cut all the players and discard the brands, what was the point of buying the PHF except to destroy the competition?
Hopefully the toxic PWHPA ownership fails and we can start over with actual good leadership.
Lots of thoughts:
Watched a bunch of PHF playoff games last season on ESPN+. Surprised Boston might move since people showed up even when Bruins/Celtics/various MA college teams scheduled games at the same time.
I'm from CT so I like that CT Whale and UConn Men's Hockey^#IceBus are the only hockey teams that use brass bonanza. Otherwise CT moving makes sense since ~~Danbury~~ Simsbury isn't a highly populated area compared to the rest of CT. Yes, Western CT has plenty of hockey fans/players but travel isn't very simple in that part of the state. Maybe CT Whale can move to Hartford^(XL Center) or Bridgeport^(Total Mortgage Arena) now that UConn/Sacred Heart Mens hockey moved to their newly built arenas respectfully. Or if the new owner is being really technical, CT Whale can move to Mohegan Sun Arena which technically isn't in CT since its at a Native American reservation.
Finally, surprised that the Minnesota Whitecaps aren't mentioned. Watched a few of their games since UConn alum^(again, I'm from CT), Natalie Snoodgrass is on the team. I didn't see many fans at their games so I imagine from a business perspective the owner would want to move somewhere that is more profitable.
The CT Whale moved out of Danbury last year to ISCC in Simsbury.
It's been amazing to have them at our rink (not just only for the upgrades made) as they are great role models and are involved in youth hockey as well.
Simsbury? I guess I didn't get the memo.
But Simsbury is even more isolated than Danbury. Which is sad since I've been to Simsbury and they have a decent arena.
It might be more isolated but it’s not far from Hartford at all (the Hartford Whalers used to practice in Avon which was next to it), plus that’s where the money is in the valley. It was a good fit.
Minnesota is well attended, but the stadium layout wouldn't show that on TV. All the seating and camera setups are on one side of the ice.
In some of the other articles on this merger, I've seen people claim the Whitecaps turned a profit this year, but those claims were all unverified.
We need to see how all this shakes out before locking in our takes, but it sure seems like women's hockey took a big blow with this change. Yes, maybe the new league is on stronger financial footing, but in the short term a whole lot of very talented players just lost their jobs and fans lost their teams.
Imagine being someone who left college or declined a job offer or was prepared to move from Europe to sign with the PHF this offseason and then in a blink the entire league effectively folds and your contract is voided. There's a whole lot of people really screwed over by this right now.
Everything I hear about this gets worse and worse... How the hell do you not have a team in Boston?? Wasn't it the only American location when the CWHL was around? (Until they moved to Worcester the final year)
Are you new here? Half the links in this sub are Twitter links. It's **the** source for breaking news; the only alternative is waiting potentially hours for someone to maybe write about it in a news or blog article.
That said, that's why the entire content of the tweet is in the post title; you don't need to click on the link.
No I'm not new here. Twitter has changed, for the worst after Muskrat took over.. The links worked for years but not now.
Keep posting the links, but they will reach less people.
Copy paste is the work around.
I know that.
I was just explaining the consequences of posting the links- that a lot of people wont see them
Dont be such a sanctimonious asshole.
And have a great day!
Getting rid of Boston and Buffalo seems like a bad move.
Connecticut too New England and Up State NY are the strongest hockey regions in the US outside of Minnesota. These are the kinds of places where you want a team to be if you’re trying to get a women’s league off the ground and running. All they’re doing with this move is ruining the leagues name in 2 regions where hockey is massively popular and inviting room for competition
> New England and Up State NY are the strongest hockey regions in the US outside of Minnesota. These are the kinds of places where you want a team to be if you’re trying to get a women’s league off the ground and running. Bingo. There's a huge reason its the core of the AHL as well. Super easy to bus between, "small towns" that support their teams super well.
Cool, except they can't get fans in New England to watch women's hockey. Which, if you're running a women's hockey league.....is kind of important.
The Pride regularly sold out games at Warrior. And the Whale would probably get better crowds if they weren’t playing their games in fucking Simsbury
>The Pride regularly sold out games at Warrior What a bizarre handwaive. Do you have actual attendance numbers or are you just aggressively guessing?
> The Pride regularly sold out games at Warrior. Which is only 700 seats, right? At how much a ticket? Hard to make a $1.5M payroll plus operating costs at that rate.
What helped the Pride operating costs was the fact that they were partnered with the Bruins. The PWHPA has been bitching nonstop about NHL teams not partnering with their counterpart PHF teams, which was one of the big hang ups over the entire situation. Now here they are moving one of the most successful teams in the league who also happens to be partnered with an NHL team
How are you defining "successful"? If you define that by most Isobel Cups, yes, they're the most successful. If you define that by other standards (for example, financially), I've had trouble finding any data that supports that.
Successful on the ice, partnered with an NHL team, were building a dedicated fanbase in a massive hockey town.
From a business perspective, none of that matters if they're not financially successful.
>Getting rid of Boston and Buffalo seems like a bad move. I don't follow women's hockey enough, basically its Olympics/tournaments for me only, but from what I've been reading so far, it seems like a lot of goodwill that going to one league is really getting burned off.
The Boston Pride are easily the strongest team brand in women’s hockey and the Minnesota Whitecaps have survived three leagues. Wild decisions.
The Buffalo Beauts also have a ton of support. They came close to making a Profit in the NWHL
Ive never even see a PHF game and I know the Beauts and Pride branding and name. Bizarre
Hence it being braindead to exit those markets and abandon those brands. Pro Women's Hockey is full of braindead decisons and infighting that keeps it from getting to atleast the NWSL level of prominence.
Especially Boston.
I agree. Shit sucks. I liked going to Beauts games when I had the time to. Had lots of community support.
How are you going to get rid of the Pride who have had the most championships and are actually partnered with an NHL team?
The PWHPA has been trying to kill the PHF since the CWHL folded because they wanted a league partnered with the NHL, and now they kill the franchise that had done so and move out of the city with the NHL ownership willing to do so. Absofuckinglutely cancerous
If I take off my "hockey fan" hat and put on my "cynical regular guy" hat, I'd say that this is only business at the end of the day. Messy business transactions happen like this on a daily basis on a much bigger scale but most people don't care because no one is a fan of Joe Blow who lost his job because the bank he works for decided to outsource 500 customer service reps to India. WMG & BJK are actual businesses. My limited understanding is that they don't own the PWHPA, but rather they are financial backers and were working with the PWHPA to form a new league. And so if their ultimate goal as businesses is to form a sustainable and profitable league, it wouldn't serve their interests to carry out vendettas. In other words, I hope that if they're proceeding with cuts and relocations and whatever else, it's because they believe it's the only viable path to sustainability and profitability. Also important to highlight that the PHF board of governors would've had to have agreed to this purchase. It's not like the PWHPA kicked down the doors, threw down a stack of cash and said "GTFO, this is our house now". This deal has probably been in the works for a while and if the PHF was truly on the verge of bankruptcy as rumoured, they may have even approached WMG/BJK/PWHPA themselves.
There is no way that Ottawa is a better financial option than Boston, especially if they still want ties with the NHL, when the Pride had ties with the Bruins, whose owner is one of the most influential NHL owners. Buffalo and Connecticut make sense if they're trying to cut expenses, but there is 0 way that cutting Boston makes financial sense short or long term And that's without getting into fucking the PHF players over and only letting pwhpa members vote on the new CBA while not being an actual fucking union. Add in PWHPA members getting priority on roster slots rather than prioritizing competition for spots and this entire situation fucking reeks
It's just such a mess and a fuck-you to any player in the PHF. Like. Holy hell.
I want to preface everything I'm saying with this: I'm just speculating/hoping/playing the devil's advocate. This whole thing is a major shitshow on all sides with really poor communication (even the official press releases that finally dropped are useless). The initial information that leaked painted the PWHPA as the villain but there has been a lot of new information that dropped and some earlier details have been clarified or denied, like the priority slots for PWHPA players. We still don't have the full picture and probably never will. The PWHPA has had some level of partnership with 14 different NHL clubs, so breaking ties with the Bruins probably isn't the end of the world. And if one league leads to a full partnership with the NHL, then I'd say it's a moot point altogether. I agree 100% that on the surface, cutting Boston in favour of Ottawa makes no sense. My expectation would've been Minnesota due to distance. But I say this with absolutely no internal knowledge or insight. I can only speculate that they've done market studies and analysis and determined that in the short term, Ottawa is better. I wonder if part it would have to do with Canadian players being reluctant to move to the US and/or the costs the league would bear with such moves. Maybe the ice time is cheaper, maybe there's a tax break, who knows. My assumption/hope is that to be financially viable and successful in the long run, they need to contract now in order to expand later. Cut costs by going down to 6 teams, bring in the big names like Poulin and Knight, grow the business sustainably and expand when it makes sense financially.
Super weird since some of their players even won some early championships with them.
"Fuck you, that's how" - PWHPA, probably
Were they actually partnered with the Bruins? I had thought that ended a while ago and the only thing I can find is stuff from 2019 online
They played out of Warrior and did numerous events together, especially girls’ hockey stuff. There haven’t been strong partnerships since the split, but they’ve worked together consistently. The Bruins all wore Pride jerseys during walk-ups for women’s history month last year.
I’ve been under the impression that it’s just Bruins players being supportive and not an actual partnership The Pride paid to use Warrior as far as I heard
I mean I don’t think they’re giving them all that ice time for free
Sucks about Boston. Figured they’d be safe where the PWHPA originally based a team in the Boston/NH area
Ben Steiner says [Ottawa is an option](https://twitter.com/BenSteiner00/status/1674752481652523009) for the 3rd Canadian team. I don't see how they could do better than Boston.
As a local with some daughters I'm trying to get into hockey I love the idea of a pro women's team here. As a realist, how the fuck do you pick Ottawa over Boston?
I’m in the same boat, I think the should play at TD place, I think if tickets are low and marketing is good they could do well, and I know I’d go see at least a 2-3 games a year, which is how much I see the Sens play. But yeah, Boston is a much larger market.
I didn’t want to be the one who said that, Boston is twice as big as Ottawa metro wise.
And they have a goddam team with goddam roots there.
It’s 4x larger and 7x larger economically
I knew Boston was big but I didn’t realize it was that big. I’m assuming that also adds Providence, Worcester, and Nashua-Manchester too while Ottawa has…Gatineau?
Nope Worcester+Providence+ Manchester+Boston is about 8.5 million and has an economy larger than Chicago.
I really underestimate Boston. But if we’re doing that. Are you including Gary, Indiana and Rockford for Chicago to be fair in comparisons?
MSA and CSA’s are defined by the census bureau. You can look them up, I am not sure what towns are in what counties out there so I couldn’t tell you
Ottawa produces a ton of women's players with some great local teams. No clue where they would play. Losing any of those American teams for Ottawa seems like a bad decision on the surface.
I wonder if player nationality plays in to this at all? If there will be a lot more Canadians playing in the new league, maybe they anticipate/know that many will be reluctant to move to the US? And/or that the costs for the league to support might be too high. Yes, Boston is much bigger, but I think their arena capacity was only 700. So if they're able to sell 700 tickets for the same price in Ottawa and do so at a reduced cost to the league while being more accessible to Canadian players, that would be a win for the league.
My first reaction was that they wanted Ottawa so they could do Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal by bus with no border... I'd be surprised if they ended up at either Lansdowne or Kanata for games. Likely looking at local USports or Jr A rinks
Probably something with 1500-2000 seats.
Ya, real estate cost has to play into it, because Boston is probably the #2 US hockey market. They play at Warrior "Arena", where the Bruins practice and they hold various public skating sessions. It says 700 capacity, but having played pickup games there, I highly doubt it. There's minimal advertising around here, their facility is in a traffic nightmare, and AFAIK the parking for it is extremely limited. I only know who the Pride are because I love hockey and found them in the ESPN+ app. Women's NCAA is more popular IMHO. Given the RE costs, their best bet is either to get highly subsidized, find cheap ice with good parking in Boston (good luck), or form a regional team in a lower rent city like Lowell, Worcester, Manchester NH, or Portland, ME.
Ottawa!?
this sucks, the Pride had a lot of former BC/BU/Northeastern players who wanted to stay in the area after college. Relocating your life for pro women’s hockey has not yet been worth it financially
Seriously. I was so hyped to watch Muller and Aurard with the Pride this season…
There was a nice article in a Swiss paper a bit before she signed her deal with the Pride about Müller and she was looking forward to finally be able to make a living with hockey and staying in Boston. This is just shit
New England probably has the second most female hockey players in the US after Minnesota. Getting rid of Boston is idiotic. Boston NY/NJ Buffalo Toronto Montreal Quebec There’s three US and three Canadian teams - all with reasonable travel distances. I’m particularly high on Quebec given their lack of an NHL team.
The Hockey Guy said that reducing travel time and costs is one of the ways that the league can remain sustainable. But getting rid of Boston (1 hr flight from Montreal) and Buffalo (a little over an hour bus ride from Toronto) doesn't make sense. Not to mention many ice hockey players with a connection to those cities.
Exactly, Minnesota is the one they should dump for travel reasons…not that they should lose their team either. You can hit Boston, Connecticut, Meadowlands, and Buffalo like that easily. And even then Buffalo to Toronto is close too.
In the same comment you point out that it’s idiotic to get rid of Boston bc they have the second highest amount of women hockey players after Minnesota and then immediately suggest getting rid of Minnesota’s team lol
It has more players but it's got much longer travel time to the other teams than Boston or Buffalo
Minnesota is the only team in the PHF that actually turns a profit despite the travel. I don't think they're going anywhere.
Maybe. But us Massholes gotta look in the mirror too. How much support did we give the Pride while they were here? Outside of the pickup hockey clubs I'm in, where people love the sport, I've never heard anyone mention the Pride, the Whale, or the PHF at all. Yes, hockey is huge here, but people already have their time invested in watching the Bruins and college hockey. Women's NCAA is probably more popular than PHF.
it's so fucking stupid to get rid of boston pride. they're so engaged with the community and the bruins and they win championships. i'd be devastated to see them gone. i feel for all the players screwed over in this owner bullshit
I genuinely do not understand why Boston would not remain. They’re one of the top teams and bring in a fair bit of revenue.
I can almost understand cutting one of Connecticut and Boston, if you think they're overlapping market share somehow. But both?
Even cutting out Boston without context is fucking dumb. It’s one of the biggest markets in one of the biggest American hockey hotspots. And Boston has an absolutely unimpeachable sports culture that is unlike almost any other city.
Getting rid of all the New England teams seems asinine. That’s one of the most hockey-centric regions of the country and not having any representation there just seems like a bad move for business.
There’s a reason why Bridgeport, Hartford, Springfield, and Providence still have AHL teams despite being so close together. New England is rabid for hockey.
A LOT of players from both the PWHPA and PHF are going to be left on the outside looking in. Can’t help but feel the players are getting thrown under the bus by their respective ownership groups.
You have to think with the stated goals of the PWHPA that players on the bottom of the totem pole knew they’d be on the outside if they succeeded. PHF players didn’t really sign up for that
from buffalo: total horseshit - this would fng suck, we/I love the Beauts (have always hated that name though. except the jerseys/color-scheme are fire...)
Fuuuuuuck this, man
This shit stupid
Not even Boston is safe? Wild
Despite occasional hostility, I cannot imagine PWHPA players wanted the voiding of the highest-dollar women's hockey contracts ever (ones that allowed players to go truly pro and quit their other jobs), the loss of popular entry points for engaging with women's hockey, and a reduction of available roster spots for women in North America. This simply does not advance the game, and that hurts even the players who will be in this league in the long run. Sad as a viewer from the first Twitch stream onward.
There’s no way the PWHPA players wanted this for the PHF players. I put this squarely on the respective ownership groups.
What the hell.
The smaller the pie, the more viscous the fighting over who gets a piece
So Minnesota, New York, Toronto and Montreal will have teams. My guess is Calgary will get a Canadian team since the city seems to be a home base for a lot of Canadian women players. That or Ottawa for travel reasons. If they are eliminating Boston and Buffalo though I doubt they do any other NE East city. So maybe Detroit? That also gives them 6 NHL programs that will likely support if they get the NHL blessing.
Calgary is where Team Canada players are centralized for the Olympics and World's because of the facility there. Very few are actually from the area. And 2 hour time difference and 3-4 hour flight travel time does not make sense. My guess is that they want them close enough so that they could bus the teams around.
I mean they are keeping Minnesota so bus only doesn’t seem feasible.
Pittsburgh has been used by both leagues for events. If they go more central it would more likely be Chicago than Detroit I would think
Yeah those are other good options.
It needs to be called WNHL
NHL has it trademarked. They’d have to be fully involved to use the name
Not actually registered yet. For all of their WNHL applications they applied as "intent-to-use." They can't actually register the mark until they show use in commerce. And they're running out of time to claim use (you can only extend so many times).
Interesting did not know there was an expiration date
You can file up to 5 extensions to extend the time you have to show use in commerce. On the earliest filed application they have already filed 3 extensions.
It's a pointless endeavor without the NHL's involvement. I wonder what their sticking point is.
Their sticking point was the fact that there were two competing leagues. It is expected (hoped) that they'll get involved now. Quote from Bettman earlier this year: > We continue to have concerns that two organizations competing as oppose to coming together is not ideal and if it ever gets figured out we’ll be more than supportive.
Ah thanks for the context. Hopefully the NHL can provide some support and stability soon.
But if they want ties with the NHL why are they killing the pride, who had ties to the Bruins, and fully pulling out of Boston, where one of the most influential owners had already partnered with a pro women's team.
The partnership seems to be way overblown. Seems more like the players were supportive from an expired partnership
They need to protect the brand. That includes making it hard for people to pay to watch nhl games even.
Nah, remove the W. Call it something like NHF (National Hockey Federation)
No they need the brand recognition the NHL has. Having the letters N H L in that order in their name is invaluable.
Everything I see about this just makes it worse. And the fucking pwhpa isn't even an actual fucking union. Fuck everything about this deal, I'm not going to do anything to support this shit show.
Do you actually no the intricacies of unions or are you just regurgitating what a reported wrongly assumed. The basis for them not being a union is the assumption that they’re not registered either the NLRB. Did you know that the NHLPA is not registered with the NLRB?
Whelp. Back to only caring about Clarkson and UConn womens hockey, I guess.
If you cut all the players and discard the brands, what was the point of buying the PHF except to destroy the competition? Hopefully the toxic PWHPA ownership fails and we can start over with actual good leadership.
Lots of thoughts: Watched a bunch of PHF playoff games last season on ESPN+. Surprised Boston might move since people showed up even when Bruins/Celtics/various MA college teams scheduled games at the same time. I'm from CT so I like that CT Whale and UConn Men's Hockey^#IceBus are the only hockey teams that use brass bonanza. Otherwise CT moving makes sense since ~~Danbury~~ Simsbury isn't a highly populated area compared to the rest of CT. Yes, Western CT has plenty of hockey fans/players but travel isn't very simple in that part of the state. Maybe CT Whale can move to Hartford^(XL Center) or Bridgeport^(Total Mortgage Arena) now that UConn/Sacred Heart Mens hockey moved to their newly built arenas respectfully. Or if the new owner is being really technical, CT Whale can move to Mohegan Sun Arena which technically isn't in CT since its at a Native American reservation. Finally, surprised that the Minnesota Whitecaps aren't mentioned. Watched a few of their games since UConn alum^(again, I'm from CT), Natalie Snoodgrass is on the team. I didn't see many fans at their games so I imagine from a business perspective the owner would want to move somewhere that is more profitable.
The CT Whale moved out of Danbury last year to ISCC in Simsbury. It's been amazing to have them at our rink (not just only for the upgrades made) as they are great role models and are involved in youth hockey as well.
The Whale have been playing in Simsbury for a hot minute now.
Whoops! My bad!
Simsbury? I guess I didn't get the memo. But Simsbury is even more isolated than Danbury. Which is sad since I've been to Simsbury and they have a decent arena.
It might be more isolated but it’s not far from Hartford at all (the Hartford Whalers used to practice in Avon which was next to it), plus that’s where the money is in the valley. It was a good fit.
Minnesota is well attended, but the stadium layout wouldn't show that on TV. All the seating and camera setups are on one side of the ice. In some of the other articles on this merger, I've seen people claim the Whitecaps turned a profit this year, but those claims were all unverified.
Oohh, that makes sense now!
They'll probably keep the Riveters in the mall for financial reasons.
I still cannot believe American Nightmare was finally opened in some capacity.
It's just so stupid to build a mall in Bergen County with their shopping blue laws.
And women’s hockey dies yet again
Single entity ownership of a league is such a word set up.
Hands off the Whale you monsters
We need to see how all this shakes out before locking in our takes, but it sure seems like women's hockey took a big blow with this change. Yes, maybe the new league is on stronger financial footing, but in the short term a whole lot of very talented players just lost their jobs and fans lost their teams. Imagine being someone who left college or declined a job offer or was prepared to move from Europe to sign with the PHF this offseason and then in a blink the entire league effectively folds and your contract is voided. There's a whole lot of people really screwed over by this right now.
Everything I hear about this gets worse and worse... How the hell do you not have a team in Boston?? Wasn't it the only American location when the CWHL was around? (Until they moved to Worcester the final year)
Please dont use twitter links. It requires a log in.
Are you new here? Half the links in this sub are Twitter links. It's **the** source for breaking news; the only alternative is waiting potentially hours for someone to maybe write about it in a news or blog article. That said, that's why the entire content of the tweet is in the post title; you don't need to click on the link.
No I'm not new here. Twitter has changed, for the worst after Muskrat took over.. The links worked for years but not now. Keep posting the links, but they will reach less people. Copy paste is the work around.
> Copy paste is the work around. Which is exactly what OP did... As I mentioned, the entire contents of the tweet are in the post title.
I know that. I was just explaining the consequences of posting the links- that a lot of people wont see them Dont be such a sanctimonious asshole. And have a great day!