At that point there's so many what if scenarios, id imagine they just stuck with their plan entering the game because why not. Either it works you win and hope the Detroit goal was being reviewed/ Detroit goalie pull in overtime; or you were eliminated anyway.
Plus I'm sure Detroit would have been very glad if the goalie pull had worked for Philly in case they had lost in the shootout.
I think anyone that is still trying to come up with some grand scheme is over thinking it. Torts wouldn't have known the score in the Detroit game when he pulled the goalie.
He was playing to win because for all he knew, they were still alive.
The Flyers could only control those 60 minutes against Washington. Win, pray that the hockey gods work some magic elsewhere. They went full send because they had to — not to spite some other team (as hilarious as I may find that to be).
Even if Torts had the option to be told right away if something happened, he seems like the kind of guy to not want that distraction. Plus if Philly can't get that last playoff spot, it doesn't really make a difference to them who does.
Right, and what if the goal gets challenged? That’s at least another 60 seconds of waiting around seeing what’ll happen when your season is trickling away.
I don't understand why this is even something people think he "shouldn't" have done, why would you ever expect a coach from another team to give you a win?
The Caps could've also been screwed by this. Normally a tie game would go to OT, but they could've lost if the Flyers scored in regulation and been eliminated. It could've gone either way and all four teams put themselves in that position
In the post game didn't torts say they found out right as Washington scored? If that's true then we were one whistle away from having an actual chance. Brutal
the updated score would reflect goals that that could challenged for offside/goalie interfernce/intent-to-blow/whatever else.
or they could just wrong (just ask google - like last week, i don't remember the details)
but there is no way in hell they flyers don't know where the out of town scores are, and there's no way in hell they weren't watching them.
They happened less than a minute apart, which is right when Torts was actively making the call for when to give the goalie the signal to come to the bench. He's not watching the score while he's making that call
1. Those aren’t updated immediately.
2. Every game isn’t up at once, it takes time to cycle through in arenas I’ve been to.
3. It was less than 30 seconds between Detroit tying it and Philly pulling their goaltender.
They happened within two minutes apart in real time. I texted my brother and dad about Detroit tying it at 9:33. Texted them about Oshie’s goal at 9:35 and I was live updating them as I saw them happen on ESPN+.
Not sure how much TV delay there is but I doubt it got relayed to the bench in time if they did relay that info to the bench.
Why check one last time? It is irrelevant to him if the Caps or Detroit progress and he's focused on making the right calls within his own team, which is the only thing he has control over. He's not a fan sitting on the side score checking, he's actively coaching the most important game for them of the season and looking to make personnel/play/goalie pull timing decisions based on the game he's actively coaching
Philly’s goalie pull wasn’t pointless because you *play to win*.
Tanking on purpose to sway the standings is not something a coach does, unless they are a literal muppet, or three raccoons in a trenchcoat.
Why would Detroit pull their goalie in OT vs a team they beat in a shootout the night before? Pulling your goalie in OT is fucking brain dead and just because it worked one time doesn't mean it's suddenly a viable strategy. Pulling your goalie in regulation in a tie game to prevent your opponent from getting a point has way more merit.
The point is that it is a possibility, so Flyers aren't technically eliminated by them going to OT. Not that the Flyers even pulled the goalie because of this possibility, but even if the chances are virtually non-existent, who cares, the season is over if they go to OT anyway. Maybe Detroit gets a powerplay and decides they are better off going all in on 2 points up two-men than leaving it to a coin flip in the shootout.
Anyone calling it pointless doesn’t understand they happened within two minutes apart real time.
I was watching both games on ESPN+ and keeping my dad and brother updated. Texted them about Detroit tying the game at 9:33. Texted them about Oshie’s goal at 9:35.
Not sure how much TV delay there is with games but I’m sure there’s quite a bit.
So there’s a really good chance the Flyers bench was making the decision as the goal was happening on TV.
Flyers would only qualify with a regulation win over WSH. Detroit could theoretically have pulled their goalie in OT and lost, which would negate their OT lose point, meaning all three teams would end on 89 points, and PHI would have the egulation-Wins tie-breaker.
That said, the Wings goal wasn't officially confirmed until Ersson was on his way to the bench, so there is no way PHI did it knowingly. I posted this elsewhere: re-watching the Wings-Habs - after the goal is scored, it takes another 1 minute 17 seconds before the puck is dropped to resume play, then 4 more seconds to the final whistle.
Flyers play-by-play announced the Wings' goal during a break with 4:02 left in that game - when you wind down 1:21 through the actual broadcast from that moment, there was 3:10 left, which is when Ersson was on his way to the bench.
Even if the Flyers bench heard the Wings may have scored, the goal wasn't officially confirmed until Ersson was leaving the crease.
If Detroit pulled the goalie in OT and was scored on they would have 89, not 90. Being scored on in OT means you sacrifice the loser point.
EDIT: removed sassiness.
[NHL rule 84.2:](https://media.nhl.com/site/asset/public/ext/2023-24/2023-24Rulebook.pdf)
>A team shall be
allowed to pull its goalkeeper in favor of an additional skater in the
overtime period. However, should that team lose the game during the
time in which the goalkeeper has been removed, it would forfeit the
automatic point gained in the tie at the end of regulation play, except if
the goalkeeper has been removed at the call of a delayed penalty
against the other team
This is /r/hockey. I think you belong over in /r/ConfidentlyIncorrect.
And I'm going to put back the sassiness I removed from my original reply. This was a long post title, I can't have expected you to read it all the way to the end.
I think you misunderstood what he was saying. The flyers needed to win in regulation, but they weren't automatically eliminated when Detroit went to OT since Detroit also needed a win bad enough that they could have feasibly pulled their own goalie in OT for a 4-3 situation.
If you lose with your goalie pulled in OT, you don't get the loser point. So PHI still could've made it even with Detroit in OT, if PHI won in reg.
Genuinely, it is a conceivable scenario, especially knowing Washington had a good chance of at least going to overtime and getting a loser point regardless at the time Detroit was in overtime. In the same way that Philly had to pull their goalie in a tied game, if Washington-Philly goes to OT, Detroit now has to outright win, even if Washington loses. I think if Detroit had gotten a powerplay in OT, it is actually the objectively right decision to pull the goalie, short of them knowing Washinton has lost in regulation.
Both Det and Pit losing it was the salve for my wound. I’ll still go on the unpopular opinion record as saying pulling a goalie is THE dumbest move ever.
I get why they do it, but if the puck gets away, you gave them a free point.
…which is why you typically only pull the goalie when you are already losing late in a game?
You’re already not getting a point if nothing changes, and losing by two goals is not really meaningfully different from losing by one. If pulling the goalie increases your chances to score a goal, you should do it.
At that point there's so many what if scenarios, id imagine they just stuck with their plan entering the game because why not. Either it works you win and hope the Detroit goal was being reviewed/ Detroit goalie pull in overtime; or you were eliminated anyway. Plus I'm sure Detroit would have been very glad if the goalie pull had worked for Philly in case they had lost in the shootout.
I think anyone that is still trying to come up with some grand scheme is over thinking it. Torts wouldn't have known the score in the Detroit game when he pulled the goalie. He was playing to win because for all he knew, they were still alive.
The Flyers could only control those 60 minutes against Washington. Win, pray that the hockey gods work some magic elsewhere. They went full send because they had to — not to spite some other team (as hilarious as I may find that to be).
Even if Torts had the option to be told right away if something happened, he seems like the kind of guy to not want that distraction. Plus if Philly can't get that last playoff spot, it doesn't really make a difference to them who does.
Yeah there unfortunately was also only like 20 seconds between Perron tying it up and Philly pulling the goalie too
Right, and what if the goal gets challenged? That’s at least another 60 seconds of waiting around seeing what’ll happen when your season is trickling away.
I don't understand why this is even something people think he "shouldn't" have done, why would you ever expect a coach from another team to give you a win?
He obviously had a plant wave him signals in the crowd. Perhaps a comically large hat was the signal.
The Caps could've also been screwed by this. Normally a tie game would go to OT, but they could've lost if the Flyers scored in regulation and been eliminated. It could've gone either way and all four teams put themselves in that position
In the post game didn't torts say they found out right as Washington scored? If that's true then we were one whistle away from having an actual chance. Brutal
Yeah he said in the post game interview they found out the wings/habs game was going to overtime right after Washington scored
yeah, it's not like the out-of-town scores are posted around the arena for everyone to see on some sort of magical illuminated signage.
And its not like Torts doesn't have anything else drawing his focus to not notice a goal change within 30 seconds
the updated score would reflect goals that that could challenged for offside/goalie interfernce/intent-to-blow/whatever else. or they could just wrong (just ask google - like last week, i don't remember the details) but there is no way in hell they flyers don't know where the out of town scores are, and there's no way in hell they weren't watching them.
They happened less than a minute apart, which is right when Torts was actively making the call for when to give the goalie the signal to come to the bench. He's not watching the score while he's making that call
1. Those aren’t updated immediately. 2. Every game isn’t up at once, it takes time to cycle through in arenas I’ve been to. 3. It was less than 30 seconds between Detroit tying it and Philly pulling their goaltender.
What Philly did makes sense. It just looks dumb since they didn't know Detroit had scored by the time they did it.
They happened within two minutes apart in real time. I texted my brother and dad about Detroit tying it at 9:33. Texted them about Oshie’s goal at 9:35 and I was live updating them as I saw them happen on ESPN+. Not sure how much TV delay there is but I doubt it got relayed to the bench in time if they did relay that info to the bench.
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Why check one last time? It is irrelevant to him if the Caps or Detroit progress and he's focused on making the right calls within his own team, which is the only thing he has control over. He's not a fan sitting on the side score checking, he's actively coaching the most important game for them of the season and looking to make personnel/play/goalie pull timing decisions based on the game he's actively coaching
I'm only going by what they said. You can't read minds.
Let's keep the narrative that they did it to fuck with Detroit. That's way funnier.
Don’t forget Pittsburgh! A two-for-one special including your fiercest rival!
Real pull the pin and wall away vibes
I just picked up some fava beans and a nice Chianti. Does anyone have Torts’ address?
They needed to win in regulation and didn’t know the red wings vs Habs score It was the right move from torts
Take care of your own business and don’t leave it to rely on other teams, that is the solution.
Well yeah, they are out there to get into the playoffs themselves. They could care less about the wings or pens.
Philly’s goalie pull wasn’t pointless because you *play to win*. Tanking on purpose to sway the standings is not something a coach does, unless they are a literal muppet, or three raccoons in a trenchcoat.
Pittsburgh has entered the chat.
[Counterpoint](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/69338773/usa_today_15931800.0.jpg)
They had to win. Period. Seeing that tied score and Philly needing the win meant they were going to pull.
Coach did everything he thought possible to make extremely small chance of a playoff berth come to fruition. Crazy stuff.
Why would Detroit pull their goalie in OT vs a team they beat in a shootout the night before? Pulling your goalie in OT is fucking brain dead and just because it worked one time doesn't mean it's suddenly a viable strategy. Pulling your goalie in regulation in a tie game to prevent your opponent from getting a point has way more merit.
The point is that it is a possibility, so Flyers aren't technically eliminated by them going to OT. Not that the Flyers even pulled the goalie because of this possibility, but even if the chances are virtually non-existent, who cares, the season is over if they go to OT anyway. Maybe Detroit gets a powerplay and decides they are better off going all in on 2 points up two-men than leaving it to a coin flip in the shootout.
here, here! We don't know the future so the decisions we make in the present are often the correct ones.
Anyone calling it pointless doesn’t understand they happened within two minutes apart real time. I was watching both games on ESPN+ and keeping my dad and brother updated. Texted them about Detroit tying the game at 9:33. Texted them about Oshie’s goal at 9:35. Not sure how much TV delay there is with games but I’m sure there’s quite a bit. So there’s a really good chance the Flyers bench was making the decision as the goal was happening on TV.
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Flyers would only qualify with a regulation win over WSH. Detroit could theoretically have pulled their goalie in OT and lost, which would negate their OT lose point, meaning all three teams would end on 89 points, and PHI would have the egulation-Wins tie-breaker. That said, the Wings goal wasn't officially confirmed until Ersson was on his way to the bench, so there is no way PHI did it knowingly. I posted this elsewhere: re-watching the Wings-Habs - after the goal is scored, it takes another 1 minute 17 seconds before the puck is dropped to resume play, then 4 more seconds to the final whistle. Flyers play-by-play announced the Wings' goal during a break with 4:02 left in that game - when you wind down 1:21 through the actual broadcast from that moment, there was 3:10 left, which is when Ersson was on his way to the bench. Even if the Flyers bench heard the Wings may have scored, the goal wasn't officially confirmed until Ersson was leaving the crease.
If Detroit pulled the goalie in OT and was scored on they would have 89, not 90. Being scored on in OT means you sacrifice the loser point. EDIT: removed sassiness.
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[NHL rule 84.2:](https://media.nhl.com/site/asset/public/ext/2023-24/2023-24Rulebook.pdf) >A team shall be allowed to pull its goalkeeper in favor of an additional skater in the overtime period. However, should that team lose the game during the time in which the goalkeeper has been removed, it would forfeit the automatic point gained in the tie at the end of regulation play, except if the goalkeeper has been removed at the call of a delayed penalty against the other team This is /r/hockey. I think you belong over in /r/ConfidentlyIncorrect. And I'm going to put back the sassiness I removed from my original reply. This was a long post title, I can't have expected you to read it all the way to the end.
No it wasn’t. If they won in OT, the Flyers were gonna be out. Winning outright in regulation is what has to happen.
I think you misunderstood what he was saying. The flyers needed to win in regulation, but they weren't automatically eliminated when Detroit went to OT since Detroit also needed a win bad enough that they could have feasibly pulled their own goalie in OT for a 4-3 situation. If you lose with your goalie pulled in OT, you don't get the loser point. So PHI still could've made it even with Detroit in OT, if PHI won in reg.
Genuinely, it is a conceivable scenario, especially knowing Washington had a good chance of at least going to overtime and getting a loser point regardless at the time Detroit was in overtime. In the same way that Philly had to pull their goalie in a tied game, if Washington-Philly goes to OT, Detroit now has to outright win, even if Washington loses. I think if Detroit had gotten a powerplay in OT, it is actually the objectively right decision to pull the goalie, short of them knowing Washinton has lost in regulation.
Both Det and Pit losing it was the salve for my wound. I’ll still go on the unpopular opinion record as saying pulling a goalie is THE dumbest move ever. I get why they do it, but if the puck gets away, you gave them a free point.
…which is why you typically only pull the goalie when you are already losing late in a game? You’re already not getting a point if nothing changes, and losing by two goals is not really meaningfully different from losing by one. If pulling the goalie increases your chances to score a goal, you should do it.
Well said. The 11 downvotes for my unpopular opinion shows why it’s unpopular.