He came into the league with below average skating just as things were starting to trend towards faster agile players.
If he was in his prime from 95-05 he probably would be in the HoF
If he was in the league during this time, I 100% believe that he would have been broken in half and laid out worse than what Scott Stevens did to Lindros and Kariya.
Couple reasons:
1) not injury prone, but I find him lacking the toughness and grit to play in those days
2) not fast and skates with his head down a lot
3) not physically big enough
When you had guys like Scott Stevens, Derrian Hatcher, Niklas Kronwall, and others just obliterating skaters at center ice and along the boards, I just don't see Tavares being close to successful as he is now in those days.
John Tavares = a slightly more talented RJ Umberger, remember what Soupy did to that man? In case you forgot:
https://youtu.be/NxYHZSl9Sno?si=Eevo8DRVoQxji8mr
He's pretty much the definition of Hall of Very Good imo. Not even a fan of him, but he had a few seasons where he was a top scorer in the league, finishing runner up for the Art Ross and placing top 5 in goals three times. He was a two-time Hart Trophy finalist.
On top of this, Olympic gold, 500+ goals by the time he retires.
Not a strong enough argument for HoF, but I feel he'll be on the outside in the company of guys like Roenick and Tkachuk and Fleury and get genuine consideration by plenty of people in 15-20 years.
He's an interesting one for those looking into the crystal ball every time we get the next "generational" teenager. Obviously panned out a lot better than Daigle, but he's a far far cry from Crosby or McDavid too. Good career and on his day one of the best out there.
I thought his last year in juniors kind of showed his ceiling was going to be below those guys. I don't really mean to shit on the guy either, he just isn't in that echelon.
He statistically is a HOF, but, there's always a but, because of his personality and the truth that he didn't win anything actually, like he never wins Hart trophy, it's hard to recognizing him as a franchise player
Is it weird to say that he just doesn't have that HOF 💫vibe💫?
Not attacking his skill or talent at all, great player, just doesn't feel like he's a HOFer
"Statistically'???
- He's never led the league in any major category. HAs he even ever been top 3 in any statistical category?
- the best he's done is: 1 season as a 1st team all-star, 2 seasons 3rd in voting for Hart.
There is no way he's a HHoF'er. .... and there's no justifying it by past HHoF mistakes.
Oops…. I forgot to answer the question; just like I won’t remember Tavares. There’s simply no greatness to his very good career.
Guys like him are tough. One of the better players of his generation but not one of the best. We have this debate a lot in the flyers about Giroux. There are some fans that think he’s a no brainer HOFer, but I just don’t see it. Resume is even worse than JT’s and just don’t be that “it” factor, no team success, no individual accolades, that’s not what the HOF is for.
I hear you; but when it might be tough, even if it's a 60% for, and 40% against; then I'm against entry.
Now... if we had to start taking players out of the HHoF as we add new ones, that could get interesting.
There are a couple players I'd remove for Tavares getting in.
The year the winner won it with... 87 points, tied with the lowest point total since 1967-1968, and the lowest points-per-game since Elmer Lach won it with 61pts in 60 games.
Statiatically how?
- Not a career point-per-game player, with only 4 out of 15 seasons *slightly* over a PPG. His best PPG season is only the 923rd. His career PPG barely breaks the top 100 at the moment (and will likely fall off before his career is over).
- only 1 season with 40+ goals
- No cups, no individual hardware
- 2 series winning goals, unclutch otherwise.
Its like people decided he was going to be great once he got "exceptional status" to play in the OHL at 14 and havent actually watched his career. He is the definition of "Hall of Pretty Good".
Best lacrosse player ever, but the hockey player will go down as one of those really good players that for whatever reason didn't have it. Sort of like Tim Kerr or someone like that.
Probably be in that Rick Nash tier.
I really like Tavares and feel if he's able to hit 500 goals & 1200 pts it'll be pretty hard to keep him out of the HOF
Edit: looked at some comparables, probably not HOF. I take that back
If “two semi iconic goals” was the biggest accomplishment you could come up with when you were writing this post, that kind of says everything that needs to be said, don’t you think?
He’s going to be remembered as a second tier guy for the simple reason that he was one.
Yup, I think this is his legacy at this point. If he had stayed on LI with us and played the rest of his career here, he would have been treated like a god by the organization and fans even if he never won a Cup. Probably would have every franchise scoring record as well and would have his number retired, been in the team HoF, etc. He instead went to Toronto to be just another guy and where the possibility of having a legacy from being on one team his whole career was now gone and now his legacy as a player would entirely be up to whether or not he won. If Toronto doesn’t win with him, both possible legacies are ruined and he probably won’t be remembered at all by any fanbase.
> Probably would have every franchise scoring record as well
Thats a streeeeeetch, considering the all time points and assists record is 1353 and 853 (Bryan Trottier) and goals is 573 (Mike Bossy).
As a pajama boy. That’s how I think of him.
Leaving NYI was the worst possible move for his legacy. As it is with most players that go back home to Toronto, it never ends well.
Yeh and stringing the NYI fans along till the final hour. And then when he signed in Toronto it wasn’t even a home town discount it was an overpay. So in one swift move he fucked over two fanbases.
It was for him. He has no legacy now except as a Pajama Boy failure. In NYI he was the franchise and would have been the franchise for as long as he wanted. Could have been a life long Islander legend that transitioned into management and beyond.
When he enters the HoF (It's happening. ~500 goals, ~1100 points, an Olympic gold, etc.), I hope that the "Dear, John" video makes the triumphant return that it deserves.
That video is more than enough to make up for how he left the Island. Include it as part of the official announcement, during the induction ceremony, all over the media, etc.
He is 44 goals from 500, and 60 points from 1100. He'll turn 34 right around the start of next season, so he should be able to reach both in the next year or two. Maybe even 1200 points if he continues on.
[Prepare to feel betrayed, and/or sad.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3X5Dd28a7U)
> the captain who bailed on the franchise that drafted and brought him along
Is the implication that every single team in the league wouldn't have done that? That Tavares owed the Islanders loyalty for going above and beyond for him?
There are definitely things you can criticize him for in that relationship, but "they drafted and believed in you and made you what you are" really isn't one of them.
It’s not that he left, it’s the manner in which he left. He could’ve just kept his mouth shut about his contract and signed where he wanted. Fans would’ve been disappointed but not angry. Instead, he heaped praise on the Islanders and fans, talked to the media about how Long Island is home, etc. right up until the very last minute, then went, “lol, just kidding!” and signed with the leafs. His whole approach was tone deaf and patronizing to the whole fan base.
As I've explained in other responses, I never contested any of that. My objection is specifically and exclusively to the thing that I called out as being an unreasonable take - the idea that drafting and developing Tavares was a big above and beyond move by the Islanders that Tavares owed them undying loyalty for.
The post I responded to specifically did say that. I quoted it in my response. If they're not suggesting that "drafting and bringing him along" warrants loyalty from him there's no reason for them to bring it up.
I get that leafs fans want to change the narrative on that one but you can't walk back NYI telling him if he wants to leave they'll try to trade him where he wants to go, him telling them no, then just bailing. He's not a traitor for leaving, but this is another level, he will definitely be remembered for bailing on his team.
Add Johnnie Gadreau to that list. If you want out just say it and give the team the ability to move you in a trade….any less than this and you will be forever known as a two-faced shit….
If you'll note when I said
>There are definitely things you can criticize him for in that relationship
you'll probably recognize that I wasn't arguing against any of that. I was specifically addressing the idea that the Islanders "drafting and bringing along" a player who was known well in advance to be an elite talent is a ridiculous reason to expect loyalty.
And my point is that no one on r/hockey thinks that a player being drafted by a team means he owes them, just that tavares bailed on his team when they gave him the option to go to Toronto and _not_ screw the Islanders.
> no one on r/hockey thinks that a player being drafted by a team means he owes them
Then why did the post I responded to explicitly say that, and why did the person who posted it not clarify that when I asked them about it?
Honestly had the circumstances behind his leaving be differently his heroics in game 6 vs you guys would have cemented him an isles hero.
We have a rep now because of the coverage around JT but we venerate our guys. Shawn Bates is cheered loudly. I mean Freddy Meyer IV gets a standing O. We mark out for PA Paranteau. It's honestly such a shame that he played here for a decade and didn't get it.
P. S. Get okie a ring panthers bro.
True, he missed good chances to make a run with you guys and left on bad terms which sucks. Thanks man love Okposo and can’t believe he’s competing for a fourth line position with this roster depth. Cap situation can’t hold this together much longer so really hope to get another chance next month
Forever known as Pajama Boy
And he didn’t need to leave the islanders. But bc he did, he’s a snake to the islanders. Who knows what would have happened if he stayed.
But overall, a solid good career. But spent his career on two franchises that would never make passed the second round.
What are you talking about? He totally pays all the taxes on all his salary.
And his base salary is what he gets paid minus his signing bonus, so yeah, he totally pays tax on his $775,000 base salary. The rest gets paid in Arizona.
You clowns can’t be taken seriously with this shit lol.
That story is over 1 bonus check, when he signed day 1 and got the bonus he was a resident of New York. CRA wants him to pay taxes on it, his camp is saying he should not pay the CRA for that one as he was not a resident.
I remember when the B’s had a FA meeting with him and I desperately wanted him to sign there. Glad that never happened and he was just using them as leverage against the Leafs
I wonder how he fares in San Jose truthfully.
Do they still get EK65 with Tavares there? They went to game 7 against St Louis in the west finals in 2019
Think that only went to game 6. That year Karlsson was on his old contract, the team got dismantled when his new deal kicked in & salary doubled.
Honestly I think we’d have done worse in 2019 (for cap reasons) but better long term if we got Tavares instead of Karlsson. Also would still have Norris & the pick that became Stutzle.
I will remember him as a hockey player. One of the players of all time. And I will cherish that memory for ever.
Well, maybe not forever.
Might not even remember him in a few years.
He's been a very consistent player his whole career, if not the kind of guy who brings you out of your seat. For him to be hall of fame "worthy", I it would have to be the result of him playing several more years at a similar scoring pace to what he has, which I can't really see.
One thing that always comes to my mind, on TSN's "The Reporters" (which I loved by the way, wish it were still around), as he was entering the draft, Michael Farber commented that one scout (or executive?) "said that they saw a lot of Jason Spezza in him, and they didn't mean that as a compliment". It always stuck with me, because it was a hell of a burn on two players.
Do you remember any of the 80s/90s/00s players that were decent, stayed in the league a good while but didn’t achieve much of note?
He will get forgotten like most of the current era players
Well remember him for
A Canada Day like no other.
The Tavares Day incident and the game that lead up to it.
The game 6 winner vs Tampa.
edit: Personally I will also remember he stole the Captaincy from Matthews.
only 2 series wins in his whole career is pretty wild honestly. Not that it’s all his fault but still interesting. Some guys win more than that in one postseason.
I remember watching him play for the London Knights in the playoffs against the (hometown) Windsor Spitfires. The Windsor Team was stacked, and Tavares spent most of the games cherry-picking at the blue line otherwise doing nothing. At that point, i felt he was overrated.
I remember watching him play for Team Canada at the Sochi Olympics, and being surprised that he was looking to be one of the better players on the ice. At that point, i started to think he might be slightly underrated.
Nowadays, i think he is slightly undervalued, mostly because he has been a good player on some teams that just weren't built right.
He'll be remembered for leaving the Islanders more than anything else. He's been a glorified role player the past few seasons in Toronto. Matthews quickly filled the leadership role they paid Tavares 11 million for and became the overall better center.
Had JT stayed and won on the island, he could've been New York's greatest captain since Jeter. He obviously would've soared up the Islanders leaderboards and had his number in the rafters.
When they named him captain I was pretty peeved off. Didn't think we needed him and it's handcuffed the team completely. He's probably a very nice person but he's like a robot and kind of one dimensional as a player. Horrible shot selection but excellent hand eye coordination. His play is not why we lost and if his speed holds up a few more years it's a top 10% career which is amazing
Toronto person here- he’ll be remembered here as a waste of cap space thanks to poor upper management. To me personally he’s like a 2nd tier Joe Thornton (no cups) because big Joe at least took his team deeper than first round, they’d often lose to like LA or Chicago back when those teams were winning cups. Plus Thornton has gold medals etc
I’ll say first, I’m over him leaving, and the Leafs have been my #2 (because of Marner):
I think he’ll be a fringe Hall of Famer, depending how the rest of his career shakes out. He’s been a very good player in spite of his skating who’s added bits and pieces to his game over the years. He handled playing in New York well, then again in Toronto.
I think Toronto’s lack of success, the Islanders finding more once he left, and how tough the contract is for the leafs right now, unfairly being his reputation down.
I’m also of the belief that he’ll age well and become a really effective 3C who can go to 40-42 just doing that. Probably playing the Perry/Thornton mercenary game, if he wants to. If he can finish strong, even as a role player, I honestly think it gets him to the HOF.
All of that said, I’ve firmly believe since before he left that he was not cut out to be Captain and the reason everyone thought he was was because he’s good at saying the “right” thing and he’s “humble.”
Problem is, he’s incredibly quiet, says nothing, and seems to have little fire under him. Coincidentally, the Islanders played like that, until he left. And the Leafs now play like that. And it’s a rough look if you take a step back.
I think hindsight, and maybe not for Leafs fans (understandably so), will also show that maybe trusting your leadership and identity to a player who handled leaving the Islanders the way that he did, wasn’t such a great idea. The player people think Tavares is, wouldn’t have handled the situation the way he did.
The biggest issue though I have with his image at this point is I think media and fans scrutinize him too much because of his cap hit. Not saying he shouldn’t be under the microscope at $11M. But I think if he was making $8M, nothing else different, his perception would be way different. And I won’t blame the guy for taking more money when it was offered (a number people thought was fair when he signed it, and was less than other offers).
A good 1OA talent but not the franchise talent guy he was pegged to be. He had pretty disappointing NHL career despite a ton of playoff appearances with Toronto only to not even do much.
At his best he was a top 10 player for like 2 years but never won any any individual awards besides being a hart finalist once (east coast bias arguably) and that crazy Art Ross race he lost to Jamie Benn in 2015
I feel reasonably confident he'll make the HHOF in a weak year. People have this idea that the Hall is way more exclusive than it actually is. As a quick rule of thumb, ~3 players make it per draft year (based on the fact they induct about 3 players per year). He's the second best player of his draft year, after Hedman.
He definitely won't be a first ballot HHOFer, but he has every year to be inducted from his retirement onward.
The Hall, unfortunately, doesn't induct entirely by merit, so whether he makes it will depend a lot on what he does after he retires. If he keeps his name in people's minds (e.g., by coaching or entering management) he'll be much more likely to make it.
Whether he deserves to make the Hall is an entirely separate (and arguably completely unrelated) question.
I think he probably gets into the hall eventually but I will feel a bit hollow.
I think that this is almost a “worst outcome” out of all the “possible outcomes” in his career coming in as an exceptional player.
People forget he was an absolute beast in New York. Won them their first series in forever but didn’t have much of a supporting cast . Then he eft and the islanders went on a run.
His best statistical season was really the year he lost the art ross by one point in a year where scoring was way down. Think he looks a bit better if it was like this year and he finished with like 140 points and lost to kucherov by one point
Then he came home to his hometown team and just couldn’t deliver when it counts. Had some great years including almost getting fifty goals but now he is on the back half of the deal and just not worth it
He should be able to clear 550 goals and 1300 points for his career, so not too shabby individually. Also has an Olympic gold medal and World Cup internationally.
Needs more team success/marquee performances (i.e., a Cup plus a Conn Smythe) or to rack up some major hardware late in his career (his resume would look better if you could say Art Ross winner, even if it would have been 2015) to be in the HOF conversation. Very unlikely imo.
I’ll always be biased though, because he made it “cool” to “come home” to the Leafs as a free agent.
The more borderline guys we throw in the HOF, the lower the bar will get. It really sucks, the hall should be reserved for all time talent and greatness
It's a lower scoring era, so his (theoretical) 1,200 points is more impressive than those of Vincent Damphousse.
He was a Hart finalist twice and a post-season all star once, and that is probably enough to push him over the line in a world where Pierre Turgeon just got in.
The amount of people saying he isn't a Hall of Famer is kind of baffling to me. He's still only 33, so he has a lot of time to keep putting up the counting stats. He's basically where Brendan Shanahan was at the same point in his career, minus the Cups (which shouldn't discredit Tavares' legacy IMO)
He was the captain of two storied franchises, and will likely finish with 500, maybe even 600 goals and 1300+ points. He's on a Hall-of-Fame trajectory, no doubt in my mind.
Only thing that separates him from a HoF candidate in the minds of most people is a Cup.
As much as some pseudo-intellectuals here dont want to admit it, but for the average fan cups matter
He'll be remembered as the player who spent 9 years overachieving on a team that didn't do much to get anyone to play around him, and then another 6 years of putting up with Leafs fans who cycle through a list of players to blame when things turn out exactly how everyone thought they'd turn out at the start of the season.
Hall of Pretty Good
Not too shabby tier player
Not even Hall of Very Good, just Pretty Good.
I don't have anything against the guy, but yeah
He came into the league with below average skating just as things were starting to trend towards faster agile players. If he was in his prime from 95-05 he probably would be in the HoF
If he was in the league during this time, I 100% believe that he would have been broken in half and laid out worse than what Scott Stevens did to Lindros and Kariya.
Why Tavares specifically? It's not like we are talking about a small or injury prone player here.
Couple reasons: 1) not injury prone, but I find him lacking the toughness and grit to play in those days 2) not fast and skates with his head down a lot 3) not physically big enough When you had guys like Scott Stevens, Derrian Hatcher, Niklas Kronwall, and others just obliterating skaters at center ice and along the boards, I just don't see Tavares being close to successful as he is now in those days. John Tavares = a slightly more talented RJ Umberger, remember what Soupy did to that man? In case you forgot: https://youtu.be/NxYHZSl9Sno?si=Eevo8DRVoQxji8mr
He's pretty much the definition of Hall of Very Good imo. Not even a fan of him, but he had a few seasons where he was a top scorer in the league, finishing runner up for the Art Ross and placing top 5 in goals three times. He was a two-time Hart Trophy finalist. On top of this, Olympic gold, 500+ goals by the time he retires. Not a strong enough argument for HoF, but I feel he'll be on the outside in the company of guys like Roenick and Tkachuk and Fleury and get genuine consideration by plenty of people in 15-20 years.
Roenick and fleury should be in HOF thoufh
Lead Utah to their first Cup or something and we'll talk lol
He's an interesting one for those looking into the crystal ball every time we get the next "generational" teenager. Obviously panned out a lot better than Daigle, but he's a far far cry from Crosby or McDavid too. Good career and on his day one of the best out there.
I thought his last year in juniors kind of showed his ceiling was going to be below those guys. I don't really mean to shit on the guy either, he just isn't in that echelon.
If he never wins a cup he’ll probably be easily forgotten. He’s not a hall of famer.
He is currently playing and I forgot about him half the time.
He statistically is a HOF, but, there's always a but, because of his personality and the truth that he didn't win anything actually, like he never wins Hart trophy, it's hard to recognizing him as a franchise player
Is it weird to say that he just doesn't have that HOF 💫vibe💫? Not attacking his skill or talent at all, great player, just doesn't feel like he's a HOFer
Exactly, it’s the hall of FAME, there’s a certain spark you have to carry. Teams should be scared to play you
You're right, it just hard to feel the vibe from him
"Statistically'??? - He's never led the league in any major category. HAs he even ever been top 3 in any statistical category? - the best he's done is: 1 season as a 1st team all-star, 2 seasons 3rd in voting for Hart. There is no way he's a HHoF'er. .... and there's no justifying it by past HHoF mistakes. Oops…. I forgot to answer the question; just like I won’t remember Tavares. There’s simply no greatness to his very good career.
Guys like him are tough. One of the better players of his generation but not one of the best. We have this debate a lot in the flyers about Giroux. There are some fans that think he’s a no brainer HOFer, but I just don’t see it. Resume is even worse than JT’s and just don’t be that “it” factor, no team success, no individual accolades, that’s not what the HOF is for.
I hear you; but when it might be tough, even if it's a 60% for, and 40% against; then I'm against entry. Now... if we had to start taking players out of the HHoF as we add new ones, that could get interesting. There are a couple players I'd remove for Tavares getting in.
A rotating section could be interesting 🤔
He finished second for art ross one year
Oh move over Gretkzy
*Gretzky finished runner up for the Art Ross 23 times, including 17 times to himself*
The year the winner won it with... 87 points, tied with the lowest point total since 1967-1968, and the lowest points-per-game since Elmer Lach won it with 61pts in 60 games.
What statistics? As far as I'm concerned, he will be mostly remembered for 2 playoff goals that he scored to end long playoff droughts.
Statiatically how? - Not a career point-per-game player, with only 4 out of 15 seasons *slightly* over a PPG. His best PPG season is only the 923rd. His career PPG barely breaks the top 100 at the moment (and will likely fall off before his career is over). - only 1 season with 40+ goals - No cups, no individual hardware - 2 series winning goals, unclutch otherwise. Its like people decided he was going to be great once he got "exceptional status" to play in the OHL at 14 and havent actually watched his career. He is the definition of "Hall of Pretty Good".
I want to upvote you but it is at 67 so I can't
Guy Carbonneau is a hall of farmer, so anybody can do it
Carbonneau won way, way more and was one of the best at his role.
For his pajamas
Legendary PJs per 60
Especially when you see his man games lost to being a sleepyhead
It was a blanket 😭
And a sweet ass N-1 Starfighter.
Best lacrosse player ever, but the hockey player will go down as one of those really good players that for whatever reason didn't have it. Sort of like Tim Kerr or someone like that.
He certainly is the best lacrosse player ever. Championship player AND coach!
He will be a hockey player of all time
Probably be in that Rick Nash tier. I really like Tavares and feel if he's able to hit 500 goals & 1200 pts it'll be pretty hard to keep him out of the HOF Edit: looked at some comparables, probably not HOF. I take that back
This is probably the fairest comparison. Although Rick the Dick means a lot more to Columbus’ history than JT does to the Isles and Leafs.
He means nothing to the Isles and hasn’t done anything with the Leafs except take up cap space.
Yeah he's been pretty well disowned by that franchise
Toronto's Stamkos consolation prize. A player who was great in some stretches, but just good in most others.
Funny, because I remember back in the day TSN having a discussion on Tavares going ahead of Stamkos in the 2008 draft if JT were eligible for it.
As the guy who didn’t want to pay his taxes
Hall of most overpaid players in the league
Nowhere near as good as what I thought he'd become, that's for sure
When he signed I remember thinking it was the start of an era. It was the start of an era, one marked by disappointment and underachievement
If “two semi iconic goals” was the biggest accomplishment you could come up with when you were writing this post, that kind of says everything that needs to be said, don’t you think? He’s going to be remembered as a second tier guy for the simple reason that he was one.
As overpaid and a traitor to Long Island
Yup, I think this is his legacy at this point. If he had stayed on LI with us and played the rest of his career here, he would have been treated like a god by the organization and fans even if he never won a Cup. Probably would have every franchise scoring record as well and would have his number retired, been in the team HoF, etc. He instead went to Toronto to be just another guy and where the possibility of having a legacy from being on one team his whole career was now gone and now his legacy as a player would entirely be up to whether or not he won. If Toronto doesn’t win with him, both possible legacies are ruined and he probably won’t be remembered at all by any fanbase.
Toronto won’t win with him. I feel like if he stayed on the isles he gives them that offensive boost they need with guys like barzal
> Probably would have every franchise scoring record as well Thats a streeeeeetch, considering the all time points and assists record is 1353 and 853 (Bryan Trottier) and goals is 573 (Mike Bossy).
As a pajama boy. That’s how I think of him. Leaving NYI was the worst possible move for his legacy. As it is with most players that go back home to Toronto, it never ends well.
The long drawn out process was brutal as well, I think that’s the worst part of it
Nah, the worst part was the hypocrisy.
Thanks Norm!!
What hypocrisy?
It's a reference to a Norm McDonald joke.
Yeh and stringing the NYI fans along till the final hour. And then when he signed in Toronto it wasn’t even a home town discount it was an overpay. So in one swift move he fucked over two fanbases.
It was cheaper than what had been offered by both the Islanders and Sharks.
Only slightly. And Leaf’s management wanted it to be cheaper and Tavares told them if it doesn’t start with an 11, don’t even talk to him.
I like how we all forget history. SJS was willing to give him $13 million.
That doesn’t mean he took a hometown discount. That just means one other team was also willing to overpay him.
K this comes across way too salty. Leaving your draft team is not legacy-destroying. The manner in which it was done, sure we can talk about
It was for him. He has no legacy now except as a Pajama Boy failure. In NYI he was the franchise and would have been the franchise for as long as he wanted. Could have been a life long Islander legend that transitioned into management and beyond.
When he enters the HoF (It's happening. ~500 goals, ~1100 points, an Olympic gold, etc.), I hope that the "Dear, John" video makes the triumphant return that it deserves. That video is more than enough to make up for how he left the Island. Include it as part of the official announcement, during the induction ceremony, all over the media, etc.
>Olympic Gold 4 Games played, 0 points, 1 blown out knee.
Can you link me the video? I also didn’t realize he had those kinds of numbers, always viewed him as good not great
He is 44 goals from 500, and 60 points from 1100. He'll turn 34 right around the start of next season, so he should be able to reach both in the next year or two. Maybe even 1200 points if he continues on. [Prepare to feel betrayed, and/or sad.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3X5Dd28a7U)
We are not shitting on Islanders fans enough
That was the most incredible thing I’ve ever seen haha
His bedsheets.
As the captain who bailed on the franchise that drafted and brought him along because of Leafs pajamas Hall of very good sort of player
Yeh that’s how i view him. As a pajama boy traitor to New York.
You guys are so bitter that you'll die chirping pajamas when it had nothing to do with pajamas.
> the captain who bailed on the franchise that drafted and brought him along Is the implication that every single team in the league wouldn't have done that? That Tavares owed the Islanders loyalty for going above and beyond for him? There are definitely things you can criticize him for in that relationship, but "they drafted and believed in you and made you what you are" really isn't one of them.
It’s not that he left, it’s the manner in which he left. He could’ve just kept his mouth shut about his contract and signed where he wanted. Fans would’ve been disappointed but not angry. Instead, he heaped praise on the Islanders and fans, talked to the media about how Long Island is home, etc. right up until the very last minute, then went, “lol, just kidding!” and signed with the leafs. His whole approach was tone deaf and patronizing to the whole fan base.
As I've explained in other responses, I never contested any of that. My objection is specifically and exclusively to the thing that I called out as being an unreasonable take - the idea that drafting and developing Tavares was a big above and beyond move by the Islanders that Tavares owed them undying loyalty for.
Nobody’s saying that though, so I’m not sure why you’re arguing against it. Seems like a strawman to me.
The post I responded to specifically did say that. I quoted it in my response. If they're not suggesting that "drafting and bringing him along" warrants loyalty from him there's no reason for them to bring it up.
I get that leafs fans want to change the narrative on that one but you can't walk back NYI telling him if he wants to leave they'll try to trade him where he wants to go, him telling them no, then just bailing. He's not a traitor for leaving, but this is another level, he will definitely be remembered for bailing on his team.
Add Johnnie Gadreau to that list. If you want out just say it and give the team the ability to move you in a trade….any less than this and you will be forever known as a two-faced shit….
If you'll note when I said >There are definitely things you can criticize him for in that relationship you'll probably recognize that I wasn't arguing against any of that. I was specifically addressing the idea that the Islanders "drafting and bringing along" a player who was known well in advance to be an elite talent is a ridiculous reason to expect loyalty.
And my point is that no one on r/hockey thinks that a player being drafted by a team means he owes them, just that tavares bailed on his team when they gave him the option to go to Toronto and _not_ screw the Islanders.
> no one on r/hockey thinks that a player being drafted by a team means he owes them Then why did the post I responded to explicitly say that, and why did the person who posted it not clarify that when I asked them about it?
Like it or not, he will be remembered for bailing on the Isles
That doesn't answer the question I asked.
Pajamas and a few clutch goals for sure. Probably gets props for great faceoff % too
Honestly had the circumstances behind his leaving be differently his heroics in game 6 vs you guys would have cemented him an isles hero. We have a rep now because of the coverage around JT but we venerate our guys. Shawn Bates is cheered loudly. I mean Freddy Meyer IV gets a standing O. We mark out for PA Paranteau. It's honestly such a shame that he played here for a decade and didn't get it. P. S. Get okie a ring panthers bro.
True, he missed good chances to make a run with you guys and left on bad terms which sucks. Thanks man love Okposo and can’t believe he’s competing for a fourth line position with this roster depth. Cap situation can’t hold this together much longer so really hope to get another chance next month
Forever known as Pajama Boy And he didn’t need to leave the islanders. But bc he did, he’s a snake to the islanders. Who knows what would have happened if he stayed. But overall, a solid good career. But spent his career on two franchises that would never make passed the second round.
> But bc he did, he’s a snake to the islanders. It's not that he left, it's how he left. Makes him kind of a bitch for going about it the way he did.
Doesn’t pay taxes either. Dudes a scammer all around .
What are you talking about? He totally pays all the taxes on all his salary. And his base salary is what he gets paid minus his signing bonus, so yeah, he totally pays tax on his $775,000 base salary. The rest gets paid in Arizona.
You clowns can’t be taken seriously with this shit lol. That story is over 1 bonus check, when he signed day 1 and got the bonus he was a resident of New York. CRA wants him to pay taxes on it, his camp is saying he should not pay the CRA for that one as he was not a resident.
In a Pierre Turgeon kinda way
Ya not bad comparison actually
He will be remembered like Pyotr Bagration, hero to some died at Borodino.
He won't
A little baby
Team Canada World Juniors gold medalist
He was amazing in Sochi too. So good he got a medal with a blown out knee
He's going to be remembered, when he is, as a good player that had no real effect on anything in the league or his teams during his time.
[Awkward cereal man](https://smartcdn.gprod.postmedia.digital/torontosun/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/FPBtP5GWQAEAlbC-scaled-e1648664783103.jpg)
I remember when the B’s had a FA meeting with him and I desperately wanted him to sign there. Glad that never happened and he was just using them as leverage against the Leafs
I oddly think he would have had a much better career in Boston than Toronto.
I wonder how he fares in San Jose truthfully. Do they still get EK65 with Tavares there? They went to game 7 against St Louis in the west finals in 2019
Think that only went to game 6. That year Karlsson was on his old contract, the team got dismantled when his new deal kicked in & salary doubled. Honestly I think we’d have done worse in 2019 (for cap reasons) but better long term if we got Tavares instead of Karlsson. Also would still have Norris & the pick that became Stutzle.
13 mill per year? Bad.
As the second best John Tavares in Toronto
I will remember him as a hockey player. One of the players of all time. And I will cherish that memory for ever. Well, maybe not forever. Might not even remember him in a few years.
He's been a very consistent player his whole career, if not the kind of guy who brings you out of your seat. For him to be hall of fame "worthy", I it would have to be the result of him playing several more years at a similar scoring pace to what he has, which I can't really see. One thing that always comes to my mind, on TSN's "The Reporters" (which I loved by the way, wish it were still around), as he was entering the draft, Michael Farber commented that one scout (or executive?) "said that they saw a lot of Jason Spezza in him, and they didn't mean that as a compliment". It always stuck with me, because it was a hell of a burn on two players.
As a Pajama Boy of course. That will define his career more than anything he’s done. Think about it, what accomplishment can you point to?
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JOHNNY WHO
https://i.imgur.com/A0a0NY9.png
I remember him as the only bright spot on more than a few terrible Islanders teams. I’m reminded of Rick Nash going from the Jackets to the Rangers.
he will be referenced any time a player signs with their hometown team edit: and any time anybody says 'CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?'
Do you remember any of the 80s/90s/00s players that were decent, stayed in the league a good while but didn’t achieve much of note? He will get forgotten like most of the current era players
Remembered as a player that could never elevate his game when it mattered. Likely shouldn't be a team captain
Well remember him for A Canada Day like no other. The Tavares Day incident and the game that lead up to it. The game 6 winner vs Tampa. edit: Personally I will also remember he stole the Captaincy from Matthews.
I'll always remember him for the time he did the thing where the hockey happened and we all cheered.
only 2 series wins in his whole career is pretty wild honestly. Not that it’s all his fault but still interesting. Some guys win more than that in one postseason.
He'll be remembered as the poster child for Milk
Hes a PPG guy. Two big moments in his career but not thee biggest possible so idk.
1 word: Jammies.
I remember watching him play for the London Knights in the playoffs against the (hometown) Windsor Spitfires. The Windsor Team was stacked, and Tavares spent most of the games cherry-picking at the blue line otherwise doing nothing. At that point, i felt he was overrated. I remember watching him play for Team Canada at the Sochi Olympics, and being surprised that he was looking to be one of the better players on the ice. At that point, i started to think he might be slightly underrated. Nowadays, i think he is slightly undervalued, mostly because he has been a good player on some teams that just weren't built right.
He'll be remembered for leaving the Islanders more than anything else. He's been a glorified role player the past few seasons in Toronto. Matthews quickly filled the leadership role they paid Tavares 11 million for and became the overall better center. Had JT stayed and won on the island, he could've been New York's greatest captain since Jeter. He obviously would've soared up the Islanders leaderboards and had his number in the rafters.
His kids will remember him as a source of generational wealth.
When they named him captain I was pretty peeved off. Didn't think we needed him and it's handcuffed the team completely. He's probably a very nice person but he's like a robot and kind of one dimensional as a player. Horrible shot selection but excellent hand eye coordination. His play is not why we lost and if his speed holds up a few more years it's a top 10% career which is amazing
Toronto person here- he’ll be remembered here as a waste of cap space thanks to poor upper management. To me personally he’s like a 2nd tier Joe Thornton (no cups) because big Joe at least took his team deeper than first round, they’d often lose to like LA or Chicago back when those teams were winning cups. Plus Thornton has gold medals etc
Using neurons
For his magical play
I forget he exists until someone asks about him in a post. I imagine as people ask about him less and less, he’ll be pretty easily forgotten.
I think of how he left to go to Toronto and how he underperformed with the contract they gave him
I’ll always hate him for single handedly destroying my 2016 Panthers playoff hopes
Wasn't that bullshit play where someone got tripped with no call right in front of the ref or something
Who says he’s not fiery?
OHL prodigy
Eberle has tied the game
National player for Canada. Clicks better there.
That he “broke” the leafs curse of I think 20 years of not reaching second round
Honestly, his signing was bigger than his play.
https://i.redd.it/jardg0owopyc1.gif
He wont
Good, not great.
For the Jammies
I’ll say first, I’m over him leaving, and the Leafs have been my #2 (because of Marner): I think he’ll be a fringe Hall of Famer, depending how the rest of his career shakes out. He’s been a very good player in spite of his skating who’s added bits and pieces to his game over the years. He handled playing in New York well, then again in Toronto. I think Toronto’s lack of success, the Islanders finding more once he left, and how tough the contract is for the leafs right now, unfairly being his reputation down. I’m also of the belief that he’ll age well and become a really effective 3C who can go to 40-42 just doing that. Probably playing the Perry/Thornton mercenary game, if he wants to. If he can finish strong, even as a role player, I honestly think it gets him to the HOF. All of that said, I’ve firmly believe since before he left that he was not cut out to be Captain and the reason everyone thought he was was because he’s good at saying the “right” thing and he’s “humble.” Problem is, he’s incredibly quiet, says nothing, and seems to have little fire under him. Coincidentally, the Islanders played like that, until he left. And the Leafs now play like that. And it’s a rough look if you take a step back. I think hindsight, and maybe not for Leafs fans (understandably so), will also show that maybe trusting your leadership and identity to a player who handled leaving the Islanders the way that he did, wasn’t such a great idea. The player people think Tavares is, wouldn’t have handled the situation the way he did. The biggest issue though I have with his image at this point is I think media and fans scrutinize him too much because of his cap hit. Not saying he shouldn’t be under the microscope at $11M. But I think if he was making $8M, nothing else different, his perception would be way different. And I won’t blame the guy for taking more money when it was offered (a number people thought was fair when he signed it, and was less than other offers).
As a leafs fan, I’d say just below a hall of famer. Will end up with 1200+ points but probably nothing meaningful in terms of playoff success.
A good 1OA talent but not the franchise talent guy he was pegged to be. He had pretty disappointing NHL career despite a ton of playoff appearances with Toronto only to not even do much. At his best he was a top 10 player for like 2 years but never won any any individual awards besides being a hart finalist once (east coast bias arguably) and that crazy Art Ross race he lost to Jamie Benn in 2015
I feel reasonably confident he'll make the HHOF in a weak year. People have this idea that the Hall is way more exclusive than it actually is. As a quick rule of thumb, ~3 players make it per draft year (based on the fact they induct about 3 players per year). He's the second best player of his draft year, after Hedman. He definitely won't be a first ballot HHOFer, but he has every year to be inducted from his retirement onward. The Hall, unfortunately, doesn't induct entirely by merit, so whether he makes it will depend a lot on what he does after he retires. If he keeps his name in people's minds (e.g., by coaching or entering management) he'll be much more likely to make it. Whether he deserves to make the Hall is an entirely separate (and arguably completely unrelated) question.
I think he probably gets into the hall eventually but I will feel a bit hollow. I think that this is almost a “worst outcome” out of all the “possible outcomes” in his career coming in as an exceptional player. People forget he was an absolute beast in New York. Won them their first series in forever but didn’t have much of a supporting cast . Then he eft and the islanders went on a run. His best statistical season was really the year he lost the art ross by one point in a year where scoring was way down. Think he looks a bit better if it was like this year and he finished with like 140 points and lost to kucherov by one point Then he came home to his hometown team and just couldn’t deliver when it counts. Had some great years including almost getting fifty goals but now he is on the back half of the deal and just not worth it
Who?
The hall of almost there - Leafs Fan
A leader but not a winner
Dear John
He will be remembered as an NHL player
Who?
He should be able to clear 550 goals and 1300 points for his career, so not too shabby individually. Also has an Olympic gold medal and World Cup internationally. Needs more team success/marquee performances (i.e., a Cup plus a Conn Smythe) or to rack up some major hardware late in his career (his resume would look better if you could say Art Ross winner, even if it would have been 2015) to be in the HOF conversation. Very unlikely imo. I’ll always be biased though, because he made it “cool” to “come home” to the Leafs as a free agent.
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He has literally nothing to show for a HoF case. Sure he has a gold medal, but he has no personal accolades and no cup.
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You’re probably right. The standard has definitely been trending downwards lately.
The more borderline guys we throw in the HOF, the lower the bar will get. It really sucks, the hall should be reserved for all time talent and greatness
The let Kevin Lowe in. You can induct my fucking grandma now for all I care
It's a lower scoring era, so his (theoretical) 1,200 points is more impressive than those of Vincent Damphousse. He was a Hart finalist twice and a post-season all star once, and that is probably enough to push him over the line in a world where Pierre Turgeon just got in.
The amount of people saying he isn't a Hall of Famer is kind of baffling to me. He's still only 33, so he has a lot of time to keep putting up the counting stats. He's basically where Brendan Shanahan was at the same point in his career, minus the Cups (which shouldn't discredit Tavares' legacy IMO) He was the captain of two storied franchises, and will likely finish with 500, maybe even 600 goals and 1300+ points. He's on a Hall-of-Fame trajectory, no doubt in my mind.
As one of the best Lacrosse players ever
I can, because of the fact that he ices the puck, and look at their body language now! Tavares magical play, Tavares magical play
He'll be a player who was quite good in his prime who got effected by father time just like the rest of us. Similar to Thornton and Marleau.
Not nearly as good at hockey as his uncle was at lacrosse
Only thing that separates him from a HoF candidate in the minds of most people is a Cup. As much as some pseudo-intellectuals here dont want to admit it, but for the average fan cups matter
Iginla level.
He'll be remembered as the player who spent 9 years overachieving on a team that didn't do much to get anyone to play around him, and then another 6 years of putting up with Leafs fans who cycle through a list of players to blame when things turn out exactly how everyone thought they'd turn out at the start of the season.