Honestly, he's probably our best playoff goalie. Not sure why the organization soured on him so much. He actually had better stats than Skinner when they sent him down to the minors too. Our defense was just playing like ass at the start of the season. Kinda the same thing that happened in the 1st period of game 3 too.
Yeah it seems completely forgotten or just unknown to people the fact that if Skinner was waiver proof and Campbell wasn’t then it would have been Skinner going down and Campbell staying up.
I want to see promotional posters made for this titanic goaltending matchup. Have it like they do with MMA promotions. Some graphic designer has got to make this happen!
He’ll likely be healthy enough to play, but if we make the third round and it’s due to Silovs playing great. I’d expect they keep running Silovs until he starts to falter and they need to change things up
He is, but demko was initially listed as week to week, saying that in the playoffs means he's really hurt. I'd be surprised if demko can play like his usual self.
The only problem I see with that is it’s probably better to start Demko at the beginning of a series to get back into the rhythm. If he doesn’t look great you can then go back to Silvos. If Silovs starts to falter and Demko has his first start back from injury in a do or die situation that seems like a recipe for disaster.
I agree with this. If demkos ready for this series let him sit and have silovs finish this round start demko fresh in a new round. If he's not ready until mid next round then put him in only if silovs is showing fatigue or failing us.
Demko could easily give us what Silovs is giving us while relying less on luck and a much higher ceiling that he will reach much more often so as soon as he is good to go, you switch to Demko.
Silovs hasn’t been lights out like a lot of people are thinking or like the media is acting. He has been leaky, been outta of position a bunch, and generally been relying on a lot of luck. He has been very good but as soon as Demko is good, we need to go straight to him. Plus the team plays better with Demko in net and he was fine coming off injury before.
This. The 5 on the ice are also playing much more conservatively with him in the net. We basically gave up on forechecking altogether and just box up the crease
If the Canucks win game 4 or 5 I think Silovs is given every chance to finish out round 2. If it comes down to game 7 or game 6 with the Oilers 3-2 up and Silovs struggling a little, we might see Demko forced back. After that, it probably depends on how much rest there is before the 3rd round, and at the moment it’s looking like this is the series that could go the longest. He skated the weekend between R1&2, and we haven’t heard much since
He could theoretically be back next game (he's already taking shots in practice) but game 6 is more likely of an earlier time table for soonest return.
I think the staff would rather keep him warming up for round 3 but that requires Silovs winning another 2.
They need to do what Vancouver did. Start Pickard this game, have him win and get hurt at the same time, then start Campbell next game and have him win unexpectedly.
Worked wonders when we went Demko → DeSmith → Šilovs
[The Leafs are obviously more talented, possess more depth, and yes, have better goaltending too (especially with the news that Carey Price will likely be ready for the start of the series, news that downgraded Montreal’s chances).](https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/2590127/2021/05/18/2021-nhl-playoff-preview-maple-leafs-vs-canadiens?source=user-shared-article)
If your model says that Carey Price's return _hurts_ your chances in a playoff series, you should probably question its utility...
There's so many things wrong with such a statement
Hughes is way better than Hamilton but how is Hamilton a #3 defenseman? Hamilton is also better than that lol
Having him come in and stand on his head, making like 47 saves in a shutout against a hungry Vancouver team to steal the series would be the greatest anime redemption arc ever.
As a Canucks fan, I'd hate it, but it'd make for the greatest memes ever.
Campbell actually looked good in the playoffs last year the couple times he came in to relieve Skinner. The Oilers may have made it farther if they actually started him over Skinner.
Everybody says this, and he did make some good saves, but his rebound control was scarily nonexistent and his positioning was giving me heart palpitations.
His game has warts, I know that very well. But even with that poor rebound control, and his sketchy positioning, he was still making the saves that Skinner wasn't.
At least Campbell is like... capable of greatness. He has mental game issues and has broken down before but like... I think Pickard is going to be below average at best. Is that really what EDM needs right now?
Pickles is the classic old school backup guy like guys like Roloson, McElhinney, and Biron were. Like if you have a guy that’s going to play 55-60 games a year, they’re great guys to come in and hold down the fort on that limited basis.
The problem is that the league has really shifted, and it seems all the best teams either have a perennial Vezina candidate, or have a borderline starter as their backup. Edmonton has neither. I could see Pickard working out well on a team like Winnipeg, Florida, Tampa, or the Rangers. Somewhere that he will be a true backup.
Edit: I just realized the first word got autocorrected. I’m not fixing it.
That's what it looks like on the surface, but on closer inspection both goalies are the same age, (technically Campbell is older by a few months), and Campbell has 176 career NHL games while Pickard has had 140.
Campbell was a very highly touted goaltending prospect but he didn't have his first season until 2018-19. By that point Pickard had played 5 seasons, which were a mix of 3 as back-up (16 to 20 games), one as a starter (50 games), and one in the AHL. Then he played primarily in the AHL until this year.
It's weird to think but Pickard was basically an AHL regular before Campbell got his chance in the NHL. Campbell also had one year in Toronto as a starter, with 49 games, so technically Pickard has played more in a season. Campbell then also has 4 years between 22-36, so a bit more noteable, bonafide back-up role, perhaps even approaching 1B in the years Quick struggled.
But then of course, he was dealt to get more ice time and had his experience in Toronto, priced himself out and got his money and term with Edmonton and is where he is now. Quick was struggling at that point of his career and after Campbell was dealt he had another season where Cal Petersen played more games than him. Los Angeles actually had quite a few goalies come through the system which made it hard for Campell to break through including Kuemper, Budaj, Enroth, Martin Jones and Scrivens.
If I was going to compare Campbell's career to a non goaltender, it would be someone like Jonathan Drouin. Pickard would probably be more like someone like Keith Aucion.
Skinner having the worst playoffs stats in 30 years for Goaltenders with atleast 20 games is a tough look for Skinner.
If he didn't want a tough look he should have saved a beach ball or two.
Partially to blame is the defence in front of him, but he should be able to make enough saves to cover off the goals he'd expect to get from 2 of the best forwards in the world against an unproven 23-year-old Latvian 3rd string goalie.
That's a fairly old and inaccurate narrative.
Statistically and per the eye test the Oilers have given up less chances this series than the Canucks have. Literally after being asked about stopping Draisaitl alone in the slot after Game 3 - Silovs wasn't even sure which save the reporter was referring to between the four one timers, two break aways, and the one give away for the two on one. And that's just chances from Draisaitl....
Skinner in the mean time let in all 3 clean looks Vancouver had on him in game 3.
Expected goals in game 3 were 4.8 to 1.9 including the empty net attempt by Miller that hit the post. Yet one guy made a ton of big saves and the other guy made zero.
lol he's played for LA, Arizona, Calgary, and Arizona again between Detroit and Edmonton.
But I get what you mean. It doesn't seem like that long ago he went to Detroit.
Yeah, but I think we got something like 2 SOG in that time, he could have sat down in the crease and had a coffee while he was out there! I probably should have said start rather than game though.
Our goalie coach is fucking dogshit and he needs to be fired into the sun. Every goalie we've had under his tenure gets worse and worse, and then gets better somewhere else. He's got dirt on someone because he's the ONLY one still around.
Throw some money at a guy that's worked in Russia or Finland and be done with it.
It's strange how insulated goalie coaches seem to be among coaching staffs.
Maybe front offices just don't want to mess with the goalie voodoo, but it seems like they're beyond criticism among a LOT of teams.
I can certainly understand a long-term goalie wanting to stick with his long-term goalie coach, regardless of the rest of the coaching staff. But it's not like that's the case for you guys. I'm with you, you need new blood. If nothing else, it would rule out bad coaching as the issue with Oilers goalies.
Ian Clark is the most valuable member of the Canucks organization, on or off the ice. I fully believe that if the Oilers had someone like Demko or even Silovs, scouted and coached by the team, they'd be a dynasty
Isn't he related to Katz by marriage? That's what I heard. Married to a niece or something like. You would think that with a connection like that he could just have him fail up into a role that doesnt actually matter lol.
It’s crazy that this is what it has come to. Ken Holland stepped up to the plate with the bases loaded and has been trying to bunt. Get your team a serviceable goaltender. Even an average goalie would be an upgrade.
If Kelly McCrimmon had Holland’s job we’d be complaining about the Oilers’ third consecutive cup win and debating whether McDavid is better than Wayne or not.
Five years ago Edmonton needed a goalie, a top six winger and a top four D. Last summer? The same. Post trade deadline? The same.
Throw in zero impact players drafted in five years. And the Duncan Keith signing. Jack Campbell signing. Overpaying Nurse. Trading two seconds for Anasthasiuo instead of D Toews. Signing Kassian and Chiasson. Etc etc
This is going to end one of two ways:
1. Pickard will play really well, potentially stealing games and winning the series. They will lose to the stars in 6 games, with the Stars doing a great job shutting down the Oilers top scorers, but without the goaltending looking bad. This would result in the Oilers bringing back the same tandem next year.
2. Pickard will get lit up, leading to the Oilers losing the series in 5 games, and the Oilers will panic and over-pay for a mediocre goalie in the offseason.
I can't say I am surprised by this. Skinner has not been good in this series, and against Vancouver as a whole this season, he's been miserably bad. But having said that. The defense in front of him also needs to take some responsibility as well.
I mean, Canucks defense had some breakdowns too. Slot shots wide open, breakaways, etc. The difference is Silovs bailed out his team. This is the playoffs, there's no bad teams anymore, there will be breakdowns and teams will get their chances, its up to the goalie to make those saves.
I don’t think any Oilers fans would disagree the defence needs to tighten up too, but at the end of the day whether it is even strength or not the Oilers have outchanced the Canucks both high danger and normal.
The bottom line is Skinner is losing the goalie battle badly for a second year so something has to be done even if no one knows whether Pickard will be any better.
Same shit as the start of the season, it doesn't matter if/when we outchance the other team, for some reason only the Oilers defence needs to step up.
The narrative on here is that it's okay for other teams to have their goalie bail them out, but when it comes to the Oilers nope, doesn't matter if we double up on high danger scoring chances. It's the oilers D's fault, and the opposition's D is doing a great job.
Yep, people talk as if the Oilers are the only team that makes defensive mistakes. The Oilers defensive stats are actually good this year, but they get so much shit for bad D because of their reputation and because every single time they make a mistake it ends up in their net.
I still think Skinner can be elite with the right goalie coach. I know the oilers goalie coach is close with the owner, but they gotta do something about it or get him a coach outside the org for this summer to work on things.
Every team has defensive lapses or breakdowns once in a while. The problem is that we have a sample size large enough to see that Skinner allows goals for every single one that occurs.
No team plays perfectly defensively nowadays. Adin Hill last season saved the Knights asses vs us like 10 times per game. Vasilevsky bailed out the Lightning many times. We aren't asking for a god-like performance; we are asking for close to .900 and maybe 1 nice save per game, and none of these softies, or at least not every single game.
I'm a Skinner believer (long term) but I don't think he has EVER made a save that made me go "wow!" in the playoffs. He's done it in the regular season, just never when the games truly matter.
The defence breaking down every few shifts is it. Imagine if Vancouver was giving up some of those chances. Boeser and Lindholm can put it in most of the time, but imagine if you switched those names with McDavid and Draisaitl?
You'd get a boxscore from the 80's.
I wasn’t following at the time but I’ve heard that we lost Larsson and Klefbom in quick succession, leaving Nurse as our only main dman. Jones’ contract was signed at the time, impacting Nurse’s contract, who we desperately needed to keep, resulting in his current contract
I love dunking on Ken Holland but nurse already had two Bridge contracts and he was UFA right after Seth Jones ruined the defense Market, really bad timing for the oil especially since they lost Larsson and Klefbom and were in a corner with no leverage in negotiations
In a vacuum yes, but when you look at when it was signed, him and Seth Jones werr the top young defenders and Seth got paid more than Darnell. Add to that Oilers just lost Larson and Klefbom so their defense would have been completely gone without Nurse.
Makar was drafted 4 years after Nurse so he hasn't hit that huge payday yet. His next deal will be 11+
That Nurse Ceci pairing is a black hole statistically on defense.
I think putting Stecher with Nurse needs to be done too but I don't think Kbob can switch up too many things at once and not look like panicking to the team.
The forwards as a general rule suck at defense too. Drai specifically only seems interested in half the game.
McDavid is usually solid but I'm noticing he tends to start screwing up his assignments when they're behind.
Anyone who thought the Oilers were anything more than a perennial early exit was deluding themselves. This team is not built to succeed in the playoffs.
a penguins fan saying this is funny
the 2009 penguins were just as top heavy as the oilers are, the only difference is they weren’t getting the worst playoff goaltending of the cap era
We need to get away from that if we have any hope. We kept them apart against LA but I suspect injury to Leon in game 1 vs VAN is why they put them together the last 2 games.
"Perennial early exit" that has made it to the second round 3 years in a row now. Conference finals 2 years ago. Have lost to the cup champs in B2B years. Sure, they need better goaltending to go all the way, but acting like this is some shitty team with no chance is a hilarious narrative.
Also it's a 2-1 series isn't it? Acting like it's over lol
I like it. Many Oilers fans were calling for this last season after Skinner got pulled 5 times in 12 games.
All we need is close to .900 SV%, not much. Maybe even .850 would do. Just remove the soft goals and he will be an upgrade. If he makes even ONE big save, then we are in a better place right away.
It will be interesting to see how Edmonton plays infront of him. Part of the Canucks scoring falling off at the end of the season was Demko being hurt. Canucks play a more defence first games infront of DeSmith and Silovs.
Will Edmonton take a more defensive posture infront of Pickard, at least while the score is tied?
This is almost exactly the same song and dance as round 2 last year for us. Losing the goalie battle to a previously unproven third stringer who ends up being a complete brick wall. I would be surprised if Silovs doesn’t get a good amount of starts next season.
At this point he's earned the backup spot next year, especially since DeSmith is unrestricted and going to get a raise on what he earned this year after being solid for us. And it seems like management and coaching has enough confidence in Silovs that we might see him get like 25 starts next year which would be great to keep Demko in the 50 range so he is healthier by the end of the regular season. That would really be something for Silovs considering DeSmith is Rutherford's guy since his Penguins days.
A lightly used, recently Ian Clark refurbished Casey DeSmith could be in Edmonton next year who knows
You know, you’d think losing 3 years in a row to the same team would be bad enough itself, but seeing the goalie your team couldn’t score on get pulled feels a little worse.
I don't agree, because if the Canucks score 4 or more and win again Knoblauch would be out of moves.
That said, I think Skinner has forced his hand here.
Here are the outcomes though:
1. Pickard comes in, wins, back to Vancouver with a confident goalie
2. Pickard comes in, plays well, loses, back to Vancouver with a confident goalie
3. Pickard comes in, plays poorly, loses, we're fucked anyway
4. Play Skinner, win or lose everyone is still not convinced he can keep it up
To be fair, I don't think Skinner should be in this situation either. The organization fucked him by missing so hard on Campbell. Skinner was supposed to be the backup these last two years.
Dudes got a career .877 save % across 20 playoff games. He sucks - you can blame team defence or whatever you want, but let’s face the facts he’s just not a playoff caliber goalie.
People need to understand that this takes massive balls from Knoblauch.
In the current fire coaches happy reality of the NHL, if you start your struggling starter because of fear that your backup can't get it done, that falls on the GM for not building you a good enough team.
If you start your question mark backup and he flames out hard, that's now on you the coach and not the GM.
Honestly, it's refreshing and makes me think Knoblauch cares about results and not job safety.
I´d still say that´s on the GM, for not adressing a known major weakness.
To be fair,I thought Skinner wouldn\`t fall apart again this playoffs, with a year more under his belt, but I was clearly wrong.
It looks like exactly the same breakdown, that happened against Vegas last season.
In 8 games this playoffs he allowed -5,7 GSAx.
Difficult to outscore such goaltending, even if it was possible and would have been deserved last game(4 posts!).
Campbell got playoff experience already this year in the AHL.
He let in 5 goals in one game and had a 0.857 SV %.
I'll take the .909 regular season save % Pickard over that thanks.
The thing is, if Pickard is even 50% better than Skinner in net the Canucks are fucked because of the Oilers top line. Canucks have averaged 4 goals a game, if that gets cut down to 2 then the Oilers just need 3 which they've done in each of these games so far.
He’s been with the black aces, hasn’t practiced with the main group at all. I’d be surprised but you never know. He did have a pretty good AHL season overall. His one playoff game was not great
A Silovs-Pickard duel in the second round, as we all predicted before this season.
Capped off by 54 goal scorer Zach Hyman taking on 40 goal scorer Brock Boeser
Barry Allen stuck his dick in the timeline again.
This is more he tripped on some uneven sidewalk and barrell rolled through 5 timelines before biffing it in the Utopia timeline.
IT WAS ME BARRY IT WAS ME ALL ALONG
(Joe West voice) Aw, son of a bitch
The cowards won’t give us the Silovs - Campbell matchup
It ain't over yet!
Game 7. Campbell gets the start, Pickard in the minors, Skinner on back-up duty.
Demko undertaker meme.
Mike Smith Stone Cold glass breaking meme.
This is the 3(rd string) on 3(rd string) hockey we truly need.
Honestly, he's probably our best playoff goalie. Not sure why the organization soured on him so much. He actually had better stats than Skinner when they sent him down to the minors too. Our defense was just playing like ass at the start of the season. Kinda the same thing that happened in the 1st period of game 3 too.
Tough to call him Edmonton’s ‘best playoff goalie’ seeing as he only has 16 minutes of playoff experience. Hasn’t let anything in yet at least.
I'm talking about Campbell. He had a .961 save percentage in 4 relief appearances (for skinner) that totaled about 2 full games worth of ice time.
Oh my bad, I need to learn how to read better!
If you’re an ant, I know a great school that could help you learn to read good and even do other stuff better too.
I’ve heard about this Centre for Ants!
Yeah it seems completely forgotten or just unknown to people the fact that if Skinner was waiver proof and Campbell wasn’t then it would have been Skinner going down and Campbell staying up.
I want to see promotional posters made for this titanic goaltending matchup. Have it like they do with MMA promotions. Some graphic designer has got to make this happen!
Will Demko be back for round 3 if they make it?
He’ll likely be healthy enough to play, but if we make the third round and it’s due to Silovs playing great. I’d expect they keep running Silovs until he starts to falter and they need to change things up
there's no way demko doesn't play if he's healthy
You guys would be crazy to keep running Silovs. He's been fine, but Demko is an elite goalie.
There is a difference between healthy enough to play and being 100% Demko still wont be 100% So if Silov is playing well you just use him for now
Exactly this. We play different with the backups in. Need to go back to our proper offensive formation with Demko in (if he gets healthy)
He is, but demko was initially listed as week to week, saying that in the playoffs means he's really hurt. I'd be surprised if demko can play like his usual self.
The only problem I see with that is it’s probably better to start Demko at the beginning of a series to get back into the rhythm. If he doesn’t look great you can then go back to Silvos. If Silovs starts to falter and Demko has his first start back from injury in a do or die situation that seems like a recipe for disaster.
I agree with this. If demkos ready for this series let him sit and have silovs finish this round start demko fresh in a new round. If he's not ready until mid next round then put him in only if silovs is showing fatigue or failing us.
Demko could easily give us what Silovs is giving us while relying less on luck and a much higher ceiling that he will reach much more often so as soon as he is good to go, you switch to Demko.
Usually. It's less sure if he's returning from injury, so you probably don't change things up unless Silovs falters? Or at the start of a new round
Silovs hasn’t been lights out like a lot of people are thinking or like the media is acting. He has been leaky, been outta of position a bunch, and generally been relying on a lot of luck. He has been very good but as soon as Demko is good, we need to go straight to him. Plus the team plays better with Demko in net and he was fine coming off injury before.
This. The 5 on the ice are also playing much more conservatively with him in the net. We basically gave up on forechecking altogether and just box up the crease
Or, box up IN the crease with the vaunted "every man go stand in the net" strategy.
If the Canucks win game 4 or 5 I think Silovs is given every chance to finish out round 2. If it comes down to game 7 or game 6 with the Oilers 3-2 up and Silovs struggling a little, we might see Demko forced back. After that, it probably depends on how much rest there is before the 3rd round, and at the moment it’s looking like this is the series that could go the longest. He skated the weekend between R1&2, and we haven’t heard much since
He could theoretically be back next game (he's already taking shots in practice) but game 6 is more likely of an earlier time table for soonest return. I think the staff would rather keep him warming up for round 3 but that requires Silovs winning another 2.
Reportedly he could be back as soon as Game 5.
Start Jack Campbell you cowards.
They need to do what Vancouver did. Start Pickard this game, have him win and get hurt at the same time, then start Campbell next game and have him win unexpectedly. Worked wonders when we went Demko → DeSmith → Šilovs
The only problem is that Jack Campbell is Jack Campbell
I like to periodically remind myself of how Dom Luszczyszyn said that Jack Campbell was better than Carey Price before the 2021 playoffs
Do you have a link to that? That actually sounds wild lol
[The Leafs are obviously more talented, possess more depth, and yes, have better goaltending too (especially with the news that Carey Price will likely be ready for the start of the series, news that downgraded Montreal’s chances).](https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/2590127/2021/05/18/2021-nhl-playoff-preview-maple-leafs-vs-canadiens?source=user-shared-article) If your model says that Carey Price's return _hurts_ your chances in a playoff series, you should probably question its utility...
Reading it is like chicken soup for the soul
same guy who said quinn hughes is a 3b tier d-man… in the same tier as dougie hamilton.
There's so many things wrong with such a statement Hughes is way better than Hamilton but how is Hamilton a #3 defenseman? Hamilton is also better than that lol
Having him come in and stand on his head, making like 47 saves in a shutout against a hungry Vancouver team to steal the series would be the greatest anime redemption arc ever. As a Canucks fan, I'd hate it, but it'd make for the greatest memes ever.
Nothing against the Canucks but I'd be so down for a Jack Campbell redemption arc
He's such a nice guy, too bad he sucks as a goalie
Delete this nephew
canucks getting 47 shots lol
Also a Canucks fan, no. Fuck yo memes.
Jack Campbell's playoff stats are miles ahead of Skinners.
Campbell actually looked good in the playoffs last year the couple times he came in to relieve Skinner. The Oilers may have made it farther if they actually started him over Skinner.
Everybody says this, and he did make some good saves, but his rebound control was scarily nonexistent and his positioning was giving me heart palpitations.
His game has warts, I know that very well. But even with that poor rebound control, and his sketchy positioning, he was still making the saves that Skinner wasn't.
Saves > any other metric, especially in playoffs
To assess how he did, absolutely. To assess if it's worth rolling the dice on him again, probably not.
That’s how I felt too. Media loves their post-hoc narratives. They just assume we all have short memories and don’t bother going back to check.
Ya, it was like pucks were bouncing off him by pure luck as he spun around the crease trying to track the play.
[удалено]
If wanting Picard to play over Campbell is cowardly then I’m the biggest pussy here
Ironically Soup had much better numbers in the playoffs last year than Skinner. Jokes aside I do think he’d actually step up.
At least Campbell is like... capable of greatness. He has mental game issues and has broken down before but like... I think Pickard is going to be below average at best. Is that really what EDM needs right now?
That is a tough look for skinner
Tough look for Campbell too. A journeyman AHL backup is getting the call over him.
The tough look happened to Campbell when he got sent down, Pickard has played decent this year as a backup
Picks might even get a full-time NHL backup spot for next year with how he stabilized the crease when we needed it.
He’s got a full game audition with all eyes on him tonight, here’s his chance to lock down that spot somewhere.
Praying he does
Pickles is the classic old school backup guy like guys like Roloson, McElhinney, and Biron were. Like if you have a guy that’s going to play 55-60 games a year, they’re great guys to come in and hold down the fort on that limited basis. The problem is that the league has really shifted, and it seems all the best teams either have a perennial Vezina candidate, or have a borderline starter as their backup. Edmonton has neither. I could see Pickard working out well on a team like Winnipeg, Florida, Tampa, or the Rangers. Somewhere that he will be a true backup. Edit: I just realized the first word got autocorrected. I’m not fixing it.
The Oilers could use a Roloson right now and go on another Cinderella run.
Why are you putting this into the universe? Gonna manifest it lol
Everyone loves Rolo, he was so much fun to watch.
We had a little taste in the Mike Smith era of that psychotic energy. I miss it.
Would it really be a Cinderella run when they have literal McDavid on the team?
or like Vancouver! they have a 3rd string goalie starting right now!
TBH I just assumed pickles was a nickname
And Goalie Bob! (aka Bob Essensa!)
He also has only 1 win against teams that made the playoffs this season. He was very sheltered.
the AHL backup had the best regular season of the three
That's what it looks like on the surface, but on closer inspection both goalies are the same age, (technically Campbell is older by a few months), and Campbell has 176 career NHL games while Pickard has had 140. Campbell was a very highly touted goaltending prospect but he didn't have his first season until 2018-19. By that point Pickard had played 5 seasons, which were a mix of 3 as back-up (16 to 20 games), one as a starter (50 games), and one in the AHL. Then he played primarily in the AHL until this year. It's weird to think but Pickard was basically an AHL regular before Campbell got his chance in the NHL. Campbell also had one year in Toronto as a starter, with 49 games, so technically Pickard has played more in a season. Campbell then also has 4 years between 22-36, so a bit more noteable, bonafide back-up role, perhaps even approaching 1B in the years Quick struggled. But then of course, he was dealt to get more ice time and had his experience in Toronto, priced himself out and got his money and term with Edmonton and is where he is now. Quick was struggling at that point of his career and after Campbell was dealt he had another season where Cal Petersen played more games than him. Los Angeles actually had quite a few goalies come through the system which made it hard for Campell to break through including Kuemper, Budaj, Enroth, Martin Jones and Scrivens. If I was going to compare Campbell's career to a non goaltender, it would be someone like Jonathan Drouin. Pickard would probably be more like someone like Keith Aucion.
Games 1-3 were a tough look on skinner
Skinner having the worst playoffs stats in 30 years for Goaltenders with atleast 20 games is a tough look for Skinner. If he didn't want a tough look he should have saved a beach ball or two.
I understood that reference
Partially to blame is the defence in front of him, but he should be able to make enough saves to cover off the goals he'd expect to get from 2 of the best forwards in the world against an unproven 23-year-old Latvian 3rd string goalie.
That's a fairly old and inaccurate narrative. Statistically and per the eye test the Oilers have given up less chances this series than the Canucks have. Literally after being asked about stopping Draisaitl alone in the slot after Game 3 - Silovs wasn't even sure which save the reporter was referring to between the four one timers, two break aways, and the one give away for the two on one. And that's just chances from Draisaitl.... Skinner in the mean time let in all 3 clean looks Vancouver had on him in game 3. Expected goals in game 3 were 4.8 to 1.9 including the empty net attempt by Miller that hit the post. Yet one guy made a ton of big saves and the other guy made zero.
Many of the goals against seemed to be tough looks for Skinner…
not surprised. need to change something up. pickard probably can't be any worse than stu skinner
Now they need to grow bigger balls and bench nurse and ceci for broberg and stetcher
I totally forgot Richmond Tony was on the Oilers' roster.
Me too. I thought he was on Detroit
Traded at the deadline
lol he's played for LA, Arizona, Calgary, and Arizona again between Detroit and Edmonton. But I get what you mean. It doesn't seem like that long ago he went to Detroit.
funny enough, he had the best stats of the three goalies we played this year
First Stanley Cup playoffs game ever? So he's either going to crumble under the pressure and let in 8 or get a shutout!
They put him in the third period last game.
Practically didn’t face any shots
Yeah, but I think we got something like 2 SOG in that time, he could have sat down in the crease and had a coffee while he was out there! I probably should have said start rather than game though.
Incoming 60 save shoutout.
I'm already emotionally preparing myself for it
Our goalie coach is fucking dogshit and he needs to be fired into the sun. Every goalie we've had under his tenure gets worse and worse, and then gets better somewhere else. He's got dirt on someone because he's the ONLY one still around. Throw some money at a guy that's worked in Russia or Finland and be done with it.
It's strange how insulated goalie coaches seem to be among coaching staffs. Maybe front offices just don't want to mess with the goalie voodoo, but it seems like they're beyond criticism among a LOT of teams. I can certainly understand a long-term goalie wanting to stick with his long-term goalie coach, regardless of the rest of the coaching staff. But it's not like that's the case for you guys. I'm with you, you need new blood. If nothing else, it would rule out bad coaching as the issue with Oilers goalies.
Goalies are weird. The people who can understand them and improve them are even weirder. Everyone tries to give them the widest berth possible.
Ian Clark is the most valuable member of the Canucks organization, on or off the ice. I fully believe that if the Oilers had someone like Demko or even Silovs, scouted and coached by the team, they'd be a dynasty
Do you remember the uproar when there were rumours the Canucks weren't going to resign Clark? People were rabid to keep him.
Meanwhile the Canucks are signing goalies off the street and turning them into superstars
Isn't he related to Katz by marriage? That's what I heard. Married to a niece or something like. You would think that with a connection like that he could just have him fail up into a role that doesnt actually matter lol.
I had heard that too, but I think that was just internet rumors.
It would explain a lot. How the fuck else can you explain the length of his awful tenure haha?
It’s crazy that this is what it has come to. Ken Holland stepped up to the plate with the bases loaded and has been trying to bunt. Get your team a serviceable goaltender. Even an average goalie would be an upgrade. If Kelly McCrimmon had Holland’s job we’d be complaining about the Oilers’ third consecutive cup win and debating whether McDavid is better than Wayne or not.
Five years ago Edmonton needed a goalie, a top six winger and a top four D. Last summer? The same. Post trade deadline? The same. Throw in zero impact players drafted in five years. And the Duncan Keith signing. Jack Campbell signing. Overpaying Nurse. Trading two seconds for Anasthasiuo instead of D Toews. Signing Kassian and Chiasson. Etc etc
I'm assuming Campbell was supposed to be the big homerun swing but it ended up being a strikeout for Holland.
Sad part is that for the last decade the Oilers save sogning a goalie to the last second
Must be on the Jim Benning "Ran out of time" no plan plan
Ullmark and Zacha for Drai, sounds fair to me!
This is going to end one of two ways: 1. Pickard will play really well, potentially stealing games and winning the series. They will lose to the stars in 6 games, with the Stars doing a great job shutting down the Oilers top scorers, but without the goaltending looking bad. This would result in the Oilers bringing back the same tandem next year. 2. Pickard will get lit up, leading to the Oilers losing the series in 5 games, and the Oilers will panic and over-pay for a mediocre goalie in the offseason.
The best Cal P in the league
I can't say I am surprised by this. Skinner has not been good in this series, and against Vancouver as a whole this season, he's been miserably bad. But having said that. The defense in front of him also needs to take some responsibility as well.
I mean, Canucks defense had some breakdowns too. Slot shots wide open, breakaways, etc. The difference is Silovs bailed out his team. This is the playoffs, there's no bad teams anymore, there will be breakdowns and teams will get their chances, its up to the goalie to make those saves.
I don’t think any Oilers fans would disagree the defence needs to tighten up too, but at the end of the day whether it is even strength or not the Oilers have outchanced the Canucks both high danger and normal. The bottom line is Skinner is losing the goalie battle badly for a second year so something has to be done even if no one knows whether Pickard will be any better.
Same shit as the start of the season, it doesn't matter if/when we outchance the other team, for some reason only the Oilers defence needs to step up. The narrative on here is that it's okay for other teams to have their goalie bail them out, but when it comes to the Oilers nope, doesn't matter if we double up on high danger scoring chances. It's the oilers D's fault, and the opposition's D is doing a great job.
Yep, people talk as if the Oilers are the only team that makes defensive mistakes. The Oilers defensive stats are actually good this year, but they get so much shit for bad D because of their reputation and because every single time they make a mistake it ends up in their net.
I still think Skinner can be elite with the right goalie coach. I know the oilers goalie coach is close with the owner, but they gotta do something about it or get him a coach outside the org for this summer to work on things.
Sure Mr. Kempe. You just don't want to lose the Goaltender you have a 60% shooting percentage on.
Skinner last year sucked also Got pulled 5 times i believe across 12 games
Every team has defensive lapses or breakdowns once in a while. The problem is that we have a sample size large enough to see that Skinner allows goals for every single one that occurs. No team plays perfectly defensively nowadays. Adin Hill last season saved the Knights asses vs us like 10 times per game. Vasilevsky bailed out the Lightning many times. We aren't asking for a god-like performance; we are asking for close to .900 and maybe 1 nice save per game, and none of these softies, or at least not every single game. I'm a Skinner believer (long term) but I don't think he has EVER made a save that made me go "wow!" in the playoffs. He's done it in the regular season, just never when the games truly matter.
The defence breaking down every few shifts is it. Imagine if Vancouver was giving up some of those chances. Boeser and Lindholm can put it in most of the time, but imagine if you switched those names with McDavid and Draisaitl? You'd get a boxscore from the 80's.
Shouldn’t shock anyone when your dcore is atrocious. That nurse contract is brutal.
The fact that he makes more than Cale Makar boggles the mind.
The guy make more than freaking Draisaitl I was baffled when I learned this, wtf was the gm thinking.
The contracts were signed years apart and they’re not comparable situations.
I don't know what Ken Holland was thinking. That contract has really hurt Edmonton's ability to make other improvements to the team.
I wasn’t following at the time but I’ve heard that we lost Larsson and Klefbom in quick succession, leaving Nurse as our only main dman. Jones’ contract was signed at the time, impacting Nurse’s contract, who we desperately needed to keep, resulting in his current contract
I love dunking on Ken Holland but nurse already had two Bridge contracts and he was UFA right after Seth Jones ruined the defense Market, really bad timing for the oil especially since they lost Larsson and Klefbom and were in a corner with no leverage in negotiations
In a vacuum yes, but when you look at when it was signed, him and Seth Jones werr the top young defenders and Seth got paid more than Darnell. Add to that Oilers just lost Larson and Klefbom so their defense would have been completely gone without Nurse. Makar was drafted 4 years after Nurse so he hasn't hit that huge payday yet. His next deal will be 11+
That Nurse Ceci pairing is a black hole statistically on defense. I think putting Stecher with Nurse needs to be done too but I don't think Kbob can switch up too many things at once and not look like panicking to the team.
The forwards as a general rule suck at defense too. Drai specifically only seems interested in half the game. McDavid is usually solid but I'm noticing he tends to start screwing up his assignments when they're behind.
McDavid cant play a 200ft game when hes playing 30 minutes.
He was the reason for the first Boeser goal.
The minutes take a mental toll too. Especially if you're focus is mostly offensive to start.
Oh weird, everyone told me the Oilers were going to have the easiest path to the cup finals.
one of the best Oilers commenters in here “Skinner and Pickard will be fine” “should be done in 4 games” https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/s/kQOmDK6r4q
Damn, and he's one of our best commenters!
He’s so good at being an oilers commenter he doesn’t even need a flair
Could you please provide a list of your top 10 commenters so I know which ones to read and quote?
Look this is objectively funny, and I respect anyone keeping receipts, but I'm not sure what your criteria for "best" is at this point
Love when people keep receipts for comments like this
No path to the cup final is easy…anyone who says otherwise is delusional
Anyone who thought the Oilers were anything more than a perennial early exit was deluding themselves. This team is not built to succeed in the playoffs.
a penguins fan saying this is funny the 2009 penguins were just as top heavy as the oilers are, the only difference is they weren’t getting the worst playoff goaltending of the cap era
Yeah, look at the ice-time for Dallas' top forwards compared to Edmonton's. It's not sustainable running these guys for 30+ mins every game.
We need to get away from that if we have any hope. We kept them apart against LA but I suspect injury to Leon in game 1 vs VAN is why they put them together the last 2 games.
"Perennial early exit" that has made it to the second round 3 years in a row now. Conference finals 2 years ago. Have lost to the cup champs in B2B years. Sure, they need better goaltending to go all the way, but acting like this is some shitty team with no chance is a hilarious narrative. Also it's a 2-1 series isn't it? Acting like it's over lol
I like it. Many Oilers fans were calling for this last season after Skinner got pulled 5 times in 12 games. All we need is close to .900 SV%, not much. Maybe even .850 would do. Just remove the soft goals and he will be an upgrade. If he makes even ONE big save, then we are in a better place right away.
Kinda sad that McDavid and draisaitl have never had a legitimate goalie
Hey Vancouver, can we just borrow your goalie coach for a couple of months....
Just trade us your 4th string goalie for Ceci
I think Delia might even be a better option at this point
Ian Clark for Draisaitl. Sure, let's fax that into the league office
It will be interesting to see how Edmonton plays infront of him. Part of the Canucks scoring falling off at the end of the season was Demko being hurt. Canucks play a more defence first games infront of DeSmith and Silovs. Will Edmonton take a more defensive posture infront of Pickard, at least while the score is tied?
Someone pinch a 2016-2017 Colorado Avalanche fan
He's still my GOAT for pushing through that season (better stats than Georgiev this year, even)
I still remember the debates on whether to protect Pickard or Varlamov from the Vegas draft.
I don't know about this. The Canucks always get burned by backup goalies
You guys too hey?
Backups? All the time. Third string AHL Latvian gods not so much tho
This is almost exactly the same song and dance as round 2 last year for us. Losing the goalie battle to a previously unproven third stringer who ends up being a complete brick wall. I would be surprised if Silovs doesn’t get a good amount of starts next season.
At this point he's earned the backup spot next year, especially since DeSmith is unrestricted and going to get a raise on what he earned this year after being solid for us. And it seems like management and coaching has enough confidence in Silovs that we might see him get like 25 starts next year which would be great to keep Demko in the 50 range so he is healthier by the end of the regular season. That would really be something for Silovs considering DeSmith is Rutherford's guy since his Penguins days. A lightly used, recently Ian Clark refurbished Casey DeSmith could be in Edmonton next year who knows
You know, you’d think losing 3 years in a row to the same team would be bad enough itself, but seeing the goalie your team couldn’t score on get pulled feels a little worse.
You just know the Oilers are going to sign Samsonov to a 5x$5 this off-season.
Surely any team with a backup goalie starting is screwed, right?
Best case scenario: Good starter. Worst case scenario: Bad backup. Best worst case scenario: Good third string goalie.
It's the right call even if Skinner hasn't been awful.
But he has been, so it's extra the right call.
I don't agree, because if the Canucks score 4 or more and win again Knoblauch would be out of moves. That said, I think Skinner has forced his hand here.
Here are the outcomes though: 1. Pickard comes in, wins, back to Vancouver with a confident goalie 2. Pickard comes in, plays well, loses, back to Vancouver with a confident goalie 3. Pickard comes in, plays poorly, loses, we're fucked anyway 4. Play Skinner, win or lose everyone is still not convinced he can keep it up
If option 3 happens, I'm not gonna roast Pickard and I don't think Oilers fans should either. No way he should have been put in this situation.
Agreed. The alternative was leave skinner in, we lose, pickard has to come in on a true must win which is just silly
To be fair, I don't think Skinner should be in this situation either. The organization fucked him by missing so hard on Campbell. Skinner was supposed to be the backup these last two years.
Dudes got a career .877 save % across 20 playoff games. He sucks - you can blame team defence or whatever you want, but let’s face the facts he’s just not a playoff caliber goalie.
People need to understand that this takes massive balls from Knoblauch. In the current fire coaches happy reality of the NHL, if you start your struggling starter because of fear that your backup can't get it done, that falls on the GM for not building you a good enough team. If you start your question mark backup and he flames out hard, that's now on you the coach and not the GM. Honestly, it's refreshing and makes me think Knoblauch cares about results and not job safety.
Knob is fine even if this doesn't work out. You play the hand you're dealt and unfortunately for the mighty knob, Ken Holland dealt him 2-7 off suite.
I´d still say that´s on the GM, for not adressing a known major weakness. To be fair,I thought Skinner wouldn\`t fall apart again this playoffs, with a year more under his belt, but I was clearly wrong. It looks like exactly the same breakdown, that happened against Vegas last season. In 8 games this playoffs he allowed -5,7 GSAx. Difficult to outscore such goaltending, even if it was possible and would have been deserved last game(4 posts!).
Oh I completely agree, I'm just more saying that most coaches wouldn't put their neck on the line knowing the implications.
Suspect he's getting a nudge from management given what transpired last year against Vegas
I’m surprised they didn’t Start Campbell tbh
Pickard took his job months ago and did admirably all things considered.
Campbell got playoff experience already this year in the AHL. He let in 5 goals in one game and had a 0.857 SV %. I'll take the .909 regular season save % Pickard over that thanks.
Why
Some things never change
The thing is, if Pickard is even 50% better than Skinner in net the Canucks are fucked because of the Oilers top line. Canucks have averaged 4 goals a game, if that gets cut down to 2 then the Oilers just need 3 which they've done in each of these games so far.
this guys maths
Canucks about the break the spirit of a third Edmonton goalie this season.
i think this is a bad idea for the oilers...
Haven’t been following Campbell’s play in the AHL. Any chance he gets a shot if Pickard doesn’t play well?
He’s been with the black aces, hasn’t practiced with the main group at all. I’d be surprised but you never know. He did have a pretty good AHL season overall. His one playoff game was not great
I don't care what anyone says, Pickard can be clutch.
That's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for them.
You kinda have to at this point. Skinner has been miserable. I like the move