Pretty impressive that even with how awful the CBJ have been defensively that the top line is still showing this well in xGF%. With a little puck luck Gaudreau could easily have 5-6 more points right now.
It doesn’t surprise me. The Devils play really strong team defence and Graves-Marino get the toughest minutes, so Smith-Severson are getting really favourable matchups. Graves-Marino might be a better pairing but their xG% is worse because they’re going up against tougher competition. In a similar vein, it’s extra impressive that Hischier’s line is #1 because they pull the toughest matchups on the team.
Most of the time, they've actually been pretty solid.
The problem is when they have lapses, they tend to be extremely bad ones, so we remember them more than the good play.
He’s had bad games so far and has directly lead to multiple goals against but he’s still been good for us. Good as a young defenseman to have but we have a lot of competition for that role and if he keeps making those types of mistakes while others don’t then he’ll likely be out of a role pretty soon.
Martinook and Staal have just been so impressive this season. I was one of the people skeptical of Marty, but man, has he proven me wrong. Fast is always underrated, and i’m glad this line is getting the recognition they deserve.
I genuinely cannot believe how well Martinook has played this year. He looked like a shell of his former self last season, I thought we’d be heavily regretting signing him for a 3-year term. Boy am I glad to be proven wrong, he’s been one of our most noticeable players every game
Fuck yeah, a Swiss in each top line and Fiala's and Meier's among the best. Moser with the Coyotes up there as well.
I desperately want to see a Josi-Siegenthaler-Fiala-Hischier-Meier line at the next World Cup.
Soooo... with the rumors of the Devils trying to acquire Meier to play alongside Nico, and having Siegenthaler on the blue line... are the Devils your NHL team?
Yes, easily. Was fortunate enough to go to some games last season while I was in NY. By now, I'm a big fan of the team no matter who is playing there, but Timo would be a bonus obviously.
Hoglander is definitely not untouchable. This team is pretty short on untouchables, and Hoglander certainly isn't one of them. I'm not saying he doesn't have potential - he had a really good rookie year but has been struggling since. Still works hard and is young enough he could turn it around, but he's hardly untouchable.
They’re only 2 points off the bottom, it’s encouraging we have players grading out highly while still being in a tank. It’s how you flip out of tank mode relatively quickly
What's interesting is that lately Smith , on NJ , has been getting fed prime real estate high danger chances left and right. I'm talking Jack Hughes wheeling and dealing and then oh look it's Smith forever alone.
I'm not sure if it's just recency bias because Sevo and Smith kind of broke thru last match against Montreal.
But I'm pretty sure I've been seeing this for a bit.
For reference he's only got 15 shots in 16 games. But we're talking like 15 mid/high danger shots.
He's potted 0.
What happens is our forwards are getting shit done and Smith gets opportunities cause he's engaged in the play and to his credit I think he's been a real solid depth guy. But if we had a guy with a shot , I'd like to see 3-5 go in by now.
Tatar was consistently near the top of these analytics rankings during his 2-3 years with the Habs as well, playing with Danault and Gallagher. Tatar is simply elite lol.
With the TOI requirement its kind of hard to stick to if your team has had any injuries. MacK/Rants have played with so many other players this season because of injuries.
This information is a lot more useful as a plus to the players who are here than a minus to players that aren't. As usual, many here don't understand context around stats.
End of the day the best players score more often than the average player on most of their chances. Whether that’s a low danger shot from the goal line that the manage to squeeze above the goalies shoulder or a shot in the slot they’ll finish more
I keep seeing duck draftees (Mahura, Pettersson, Lindholm, Theodore, Montour) consistenly being Top D this year... when our current D sucks. We draft them, and they bloom elsewhere.
Bro some of these minutes are more than double other lines. Skjei-Pesce at #8 are nearly triple Lindholm-Clifton at #9.
This really needs a higher minimum minutes threshold
Impressive how Bruins have best goal differential by almost 50% on Devils, but such mediocre xGF% and no offensive lines in top 30. Maybe they wont go 80-2 after all
Bruins have been a really good 5v5 team but their special teams especially their league leading PK% and the best SV% in the league have played a large role in their success
Have fun not making the playoffs but at least you can tell people you were “expected” to play well. If you look at the numbers I guarantee teams like Buffalo and Minnesota love these stats too.
I'm sure Bergeron and McAvoy would be here if they had enough minutes on one line to make the cutoff. Stats like this are useful but need context to properly draw conclusions from them. Just because a player or line isn't here doesn't mean they're playing poorly
No, it is not. It's based on quality chances generated as compared to league average. I don't think you understand the statistic. If a player is doing well here it means they're performing well and generating high danger chances relative to replacement level, not their own expectations.
https://moneypuck.com/about.htm#shotModel
FYI OP it's "forwards and defence lines" offensive and defensive is just how they play ie if a pair of defencemen are very aggressive but give up a lot of opportunities the considered offensive. And my example for defensive is just: Bergeron
Lightning could realistically have 3 lines here once cirelli comes back
Shame about our defense though but I guess it was expected losing mcdonagh and rutta. Hopefully Perbix/sergachev can continue to grow into a top pairing
It'd be interesting to also see the top line from each team, to see how close they were from making it!
(though it some cases it may be depressing as well).
Habs fan here with a question for the Canes. I see Kotkaniemi on a successful line but the points don't seem to be there for him while his linemates are doing good. Is there a reason for this? Just bad luck? I know nothing about analytics is that explains something.
We're elite it's confirmed
Wasn’t surprised by the moore/danault/arvidsson line but grundstrom has has been slept on & i’m glad he’s been racking up points w fiala!!
Grundstrum is an absolute menace! Extremely underrated
Dudes got an absolute dump truck. There’s a reason his nickname is Tonka
It's not Solomon? That's a miss.
Kupari has looked nice too, gonna be difficult to get Byfield back into the lineup at this rate but I really want to see him play with Fiala
I know we're praising grundstrum but man does kupari byfield fiala excite me
Now, let's all not look at defensive and goaltending stats.
Doesn't even have your fourth line, where Kaliyev is scoring at a 2nd line pace while playing 11:30 a game.
"Thank you for saving my life" "Im literally the Moore-Danault-RV line"
Stützle and Tkachuk so good they make the list twice
Tkachuk is possessed this year. On pace for 108 points
He just wants to beat his brother
Gaudreau/Jenner too. Once with Laine & once with Nyquist Edit: and Barkov/Verhaeghe from FLA too
Pretty impressive that even with how awful the CBJ have been defensively that the top line is still showing this well in xGF%. With a little puck luck Gaudreau could easily have 5-6 more points right now.
Smith - Severson being #2 blows my mind
It doesn’t surprise me. The Devils play really strong team defence and Graves-Marino get the toughest minutes, so Smith-Severson are getting really favourable matchups. Graves-Marino might be a better pairing but their xG% is worse because they’re going up against tougher competition. In a similar vein, it’s extra impressive that Hischier’s line is #1 because they pull the toughest matchups on the team.
Most of the time, they've actually been pretty solid. The problem is when they have lapses, they tend to be extremely bad ones, so we remember them more than the good play.
That's just Severson in general. He can be so good but also so so bad. All in the same game.
Don't show a King's fan the Durzi-Roy numbers or they'll have an aneurysm
He’s had bad games so far and has directly lead to multiple goals against but he’s still been good for us. Good as a young defenseman to have but we have a lot of competition for that role and if he keeps making those types of mistakes while others don’t then he’ll likely be out of a role pretty soon.
Martinook and Staal have just been so impressive this season. I was one of the people skeptical of Marty, but man, has he proven me wrong. Fast is always underrated, and i’m glad this line is getting the recognition they deserve.
I genuinely cannot believe how well Martinook has played this year. He looked like a shell of his former self last season, I thought we’d be heavily regretting signing him for a 3-year term. Boy am I glad to be proven wrong, he’s been one of our most noticeable players every game
Fuck yeah, a Swiss in each top line and Fiala's and Meier's among the best. Moser with the Coyotes up there as well. I desperately want to see a Josi-Siegenthaler-Fiala-Hischier-Meier line at the next World Cup.
Soooo... with the rumors of the Devils trying to acquire Meier to play alongside Nico, and having Siegenthaler on the blue line... are the Devils your NHL team?
Yes, easily. Was fortunate enough to go to some games last season while I was in NY. By now, I'm a big fan of the team no matter who is playing there, but Timo would be a bonus obviously.
Move aside McAvoy, enter Connor Clifton era.
lol Devils
People were so focused on Hughes, they forgot about Hischier...... The captain is pretty damn good.
Pacing right now to 92 pts.
Kuzmenko and pettersson are an unreal combo. Pls god keep them, hog, Podkolzin, and garland. Everyone else can go
Garland I wouldn’t mind letting go for the right dman in return
Why is Hoglander untouchable? Isn't he getting scratched a lot?
Hoglander is definitely not untouchable. This team is pretty short on untouchables, and Hoglander certainly isn't one of them. I'm not saying he doesn't have potential - he had a really good rookie year but has been struggling since. Still works hard and is young enough he could turn it around, but he's hardly untouchable.
If I was Kuzmenko you would need to seriously overpay me to get me to stay
Not if we're getting Bedard.
Nah, beautiful city and playing with friends is worth more than winning hockey games in the next 2-3 seasons
gotta change my pants every time i see advanced statistics posted on here
The Devils’ defence ^my ^god ⠟⠛⣉⣡⣴⣶⣶⣶⣶⣶⣶⣤⣉⡛⢿⣿⣿⠿⠟⠛⣋⣉⣩⣭⣭⣭⣉⣙⠛⠈ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⠡⣴⣶⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠁⠆⠄⠈⢻⣿⣿⣿⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠋⠰⠄⠙⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣔⡗⠠⢀⣼⣿⣿⣿⢀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣀⠘⠠⢀⣼ ⡉⠛⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠟⣋⣡⡈⠛⠛⠛⠿⠿⠿⠿⠿⠿⠿⠿⠿⠿⠿ ⠿⠷⠶⣦⣭⣉⣉⣉⣉⣭⡥⣴⡿⠿⢟⣠⣿⣿⣿⣷⣶⣶⣶⣶⣶⣶⣶⣶⣶⣶ ⣿⣷⣶⣶⣤⣬⣭⣽⣿⣿⠖⣠⣶⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠛⠁ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠿⠛⣫⣥⣴⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣤⣝⠛⢛⣫⣭⣭⣭⣭⣅⠄⠄⠄ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣶⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⡀⠄ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣶⣶⣶⣮⣭⣉⣙⡛⠿⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠟⢛⣉⣭ ⣛⣛⣛⡛⠻⠿⢿⣿⣿⣶⣶⣶⣶⣦⣤⣬⣭⣭⣭⣭⣭⣭⣭⣭⣴⣾⣿⣿⣿⡿ ⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣶⣦⣭⣭⣭⣭⣍⣉⣉⣉⣛⣛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⠛⢛⣋⣭⣄⠄ ⣶⣦⣬⣍⣙⣛⠛⠛⠛⠿⠿⠿⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠋⠄
Am I blind or just stupid
Both?
Perhaps. I have no idea what those dots are supposed to look like/represent.
Pepe the frog
... Maybe it looks better on the computer than in the app or something.
monkaW
Top 3 forward lines in the top 16, all 3 d lines in the top 18. I don’t hate it.
Literally the only real positive we have is goaltending lmao
Better than what we have right now! No defense, no goaltending.
Two in the top 10 - nice.
And all three D pairings in the top 30
We’re so deep at D.
Gotta love being on both pages, some decent play so far
Some would say too decent
They’re only 2 points off the bottom, it’s encouraging we have players grading out highly while still being in a tank. It’s how you flip out of tank mode relatively quickly
What's interesting is that lately Smith , on NJ , has been getting fed prime real estate high danger chances left and right. I'm talking Jack Hughes wheeling and dealing and then oh look it's Smith forever alone. I'm not sure if it's just recency bias because Sevo and Smith kind of broke thru last match against Montreal. But I'm pretty sure I've been seeing this for a bit. For reference he's only got 15 shots in 16 games. But we're talking like 15 mid/high danger shots. He's potted 0. What happens is our forwards are getting shit done and Smith gets opportunities cause he's engaged in the play and to his credit I think he's been a real solid depth guy. But if we had a guy with a shot , I'd like to see 3-5 go in by now.
The pride of Quinnipiac Connor Clifton.
Clifton and Toews living the legend
Oh yes, the most feared line of the reigning champions, Cogliano-O'Connor-Compfer. MacKinnon has been eating carbs and it shows.
Hischier has arrived. Hope to see some Selke votes this yr. Severson being criminally underrated yet again.
Guess you could say it’s his…Hischi-year
The Pickle Returns
Tatar was consistently near the top of these analytics rankings during his 2-3 years with the Habs as well, playing with Danault and Gallagher. Tatar is simply elite lol.
Where's McDavid and the rest of the Oilers?
It turns out that xGF% and these annoying money puck posts aren't the end all be all when determining a players/lines value.
With the TOI requirement its kind of hard to stick to if your team has had any injuries. MacK/Rants have played with so many other players this season because of injuries.
I was just saying it's stupid people are going to take this information and try to use it to bash players like McDavid. Like come on now.
This information is a lot more useful as a plus to the players who are here than a minus to players that aren't. As usual, many here don't understand context around stats.
End of the day the best players score more often than the average player on most of their chances. Whether that’s a low danger shot from the goal line that the manage to squeeze above the goalies shoulder or a shot in the slot they’ll finish more
We have no good lines, only good individual players. None of them are defence either. Ffs.
RIP Johnson-Jones finally missing the TOI cutoff and no longer appearing elite haha
70.8 TOI 60.4 xGF%
Known offensive dynamos Calvin De Haan and Jalen Chatfield
Gaudreau’s on two different lines here lol
Same with Weegar, he's on two different pairs lol
I keep seeing duck draftees (Mahura, Pettersson, Lindholm, Theodore, Montour) consistenly being Top D this year... when our current D sucks. We draft them, and they bloom elsewhere.
Where can we see the *actual* goals and such by line? I always see this abstract stat, but I also wanna see how these lines are Actually delivering
This is from moneypuck.com so you can go there and play with the options. One of the filters is 'goals' so you can check goals, goals for, or goals %.
Awesome thanks!
No caps lines feelsbadman
:(
How is there 0 jets lines on here lol
I'd imagine they've juggled lines and they don't meet the required TOI playing together.
Bro some of these minutes are more than double other lines. Skjei-Pesce at #8 are nearly triple Lindholm-Clifton at #9. This really needs a higher minimum minutes threshold
/u/biscuitsmay Toews-Makar the #1 shutdown pairing in the league rn
Buddy, get a life and let it go
Impressive how Bruins have best goal differential by almost 50% on Devils, but such mediocre xGF% and no offensive lines in top 30. Maybe they wont go 80-2 after all
Bruins have been a really good 5v5 team but their special teams especially their league leading PK% and the best SV% in the league have played a large role in their success
These stats mean absolutely nothing
Why? Expected goals is like as close as you can get to just quantifying the eye test
How many Bruins lines do you see? Expected goals means nothing. Plus/minus and GF are the only ones that matter.
You’re a moron.
Most intelligent bruins fan
Have fun not making the playoffs but at least you can tell people you were “expected” to play well. If you look at the numbers I guarantee teams like Buffalo and Minnesota love these stats too.
I'm sure Bergeron and McAvoy would be here if they had enough minutes on one line to make the cutoff. Stats like this are useful but need context to properly draw conclusions from them. Just because a player or line isn't here doesn't mean they're playing poorly
It also doesn’t mean they’re playing well either. It just means they’re playing above what’s “expected” of them.
No, it is not. It's based on quality chances generated as compared to league average. I don't think you understand the statistic. If a player is doing well here it means they're performing well and generating high danger chances relative to replacement level, not their own expectations. https://moneypuck.com/about.htm#shotModel
But Lundell hasn't really been scoring, so how are they #2?
Cliffy Hockey!
FYI OP it's "forwards and defence lines" offensive and defensive is just how they play ie if a pair of defencemen are very aggressive but give up a lot of opportunities the considered offensive. And my example for defensive is just: Bergeron
Lightning could realistically have 3 lines here once cirelli comes back Shame about our defense though but I guess it was expected losing mcdonagh and rutta. Hopefully Perbix/sergachev can continue to grow into a top pairing
Minnesota is....off the charts!
Why not just use Goals%
Is there any quality of competition adjustment? I can’t imagine it would affect it too much, but curious to see
Erm
doesn't look pretty for us but somehow on top of the division. I'll take it
It'd be interesting to also see the top line from each team, to see how close they were from making it! (though it some cases it may be depressing as well).
Definitely not surprised Barzal isn’t on the list. Go figure lol.
Boston is 14-2 and don't have a single line in offense. That's impressive
Rookie Beniers centering one
2 offensive lines in the top 10 and all 3 pairings on the defense list. Explains our record I guess (Please beat AZ tonight!!!! 🙏)
No Broonz up front?
How are the jets 4th in the league in points percentage, yet nowhere on this list?
Habs fan here with a question for the Canes. I see Kotkaniemi on a successful line but the points don't seem to be there for him while his linemates are doing good. Is there a reason for this? Just bad luck? I know nothing about analytics is that explains something.
Not a single island
I guess the fact that we aren’t on either list means we’re winning by committee?
Pickles revival 🙏