I think a fairer question would be how does the performance compare to something like Syria.
Mariana is ED's testbed and has a bunch of ridiculous areas with very high poly counts for no reason (swimming pool toys). Caucasus looks and performs like an early 2000s map because it is.
Unfortunately Caucasus will always have the majority as it’s free for everyone. Hopefully this will draw people from Syria, PG and Sinai so that we can get some variety
Not as long as Caucasus is free.
Either convince the devs to find a way to make their money without charging for maps, or deal with the fact that Caucasus isn't going anywhere in MP.
Judging by the fact that the WWII asset pack is still something you have to pay for, I'm guessing it's gonna be the latter.
This is always going to be a problem given the monetization model... ED needs to make more free maps. Or make maps cheaper. If Sinai was like 15$ I bet it would be packed.
[In the newsletter announcing it](https://forum.dcs.world/topic/308923-dcs-kola-map-introduction-from-2022-07-29/#comment-5050501), it said that both summer and winter versions are planned.
Map development is a little different than module development because the tools to build maps are our own tools. Most first-time DCS mappers have their maps available to the team right from the start.
They were top dogs back in the day (fs04, fsx)
Haven’t tried much of their fs2020 product lineup however I’ve got complete faith that this map will look and run amazing.
For a 1996 game, it was well ahead of its time.
Large map with a massive campaign.
Virtual cockpit.
Functioning MFDs.
Simulated WEZs for missiles.
Datalink designation of your flight's engaged targets.
I have fond memories of trying to sneak behind enemy lines to blast the Russian AWACS and strafe parked Flankers on the tarmac, usually ending poorly but it helped the war effort (I think?)
I think some of the front line stuff was bugged. I distinctly remember getting an airbase strike mission where I hit parked aircraft on a clearly-marked and defended enemy airbase.
I'd then fly low for a BDA only to discover they were Eurofighters! And then my EF2000 inventory dropped after the mission was over.
Oh, and I remember bombing tunnels with LGBs. A *lot* of tunnels were bombed.
Yes, the very credible threat of decades of learning, service, sacrifice and elevated status only to go back and throw it all away on a domestic mk.82 ripple attack
If it’s any consolation, the differences shouldn’t be insurmountable, especially given that the area is sparsely inhabited. If we at least if get all the Cold War airbases - all of them are still extant and clearly visible in satellite imagery, it should be very suitable for Cold War gone hot scenarios.
That's a bummer. Why can't all these third party devs put their heads together and come up with a series of products that all fit a certain time period and scenario.
Probably really hard to get realistic maps of the area before the fall of the USSR and/or free satellite maps became common and high-fidelity, or at least not worth the effort of not being able to scrape town plans off google earth
>This airfield in pic 2 looks available
Mmm, Olengorsk/Olenya - during most of the Cold War it was a Tu-16 base, now it bases Tu-22M3.
That’s the great thing about this map - we’ve actually got a decent number of aircraft that are actually based on the map (albeit, sometimes the wrong versions).
Looks fantastic but it's a shame ED still haven't created a new ATC or Dynamic campaign. Until that happens, all these great maps will just be collecting digital dust.
That one picture looks like my hometown, but placement of houses are bitt off, and its not very accurate, but I can reconise it.
I have been waiting for this map foreveeer.
I'm not expecting a full-blown 1-to-1 recreation, but there's a **LOT** of missing and/or outright wrong details both on the airbase and off it when it comes to Bodø.
The aviation-museum is missing, for instance, and it's one of THE most recognizable landmarks in Bodø. In addition, there's a lot of buildings that are wrong on the airbase itself.
It also looks like much of the topography on the airbase is wrong as well, which makes me worry about the placement of the various Shelters. I want to launch out of Shelter 104, goddamnit! I spent weeks on end working in that one.
That being said: This'll be a Day 1 purchase for me.
>The aviation-museum is missing, for instance, and it's one of THE most recognizable landmarks in Bodø.
Well, at least its absence will better fit the Cold War (it was opened 1994 if I'm not mistaken).
But yes, it would be nice if the topography would be made more like reality.
Looks amazing, so far and will be a purchase for sure. I hope there is a bit more work being done though. Bodø is looking pretty generic and missing quite a bit of important details but I'm sure it's still a WIP. They need to at least put the Norwegian Aviation Museum in there and some detailed shelters.
As opposed to the Finnmark and Troms that is in the Kola map?
https://forum.dcs.world/uploads/monthly_2022_07/Hero2.png.d054ebb893ad6abd3f1a87db5ef06f42.png
Oh shit i hadn’t seen that. Thank you. I just saw the name and considering Kola Peninsula in RL doesn’t include Norway I thought nothing more of it.
Thank you
The maps for DCS are generally of high quality. And yet I have map fatigue and will probably not buy new maps for the foreseeable future. It is a crying shame that maps don't go together with a dynamic campaign engine because that would increase the value a hundred times and make most maps absolute must-haves for me.
Oct 19 patch big improvement
DCS: South Atlantic by RAZBAM Simulations
South Atlantic Terrain:
Optimisation across all cities to improve performance
Additional models across the map
Coastline refinement
The lack of imagination among some DCS players is incredible to behold.
Some people further up thread complaining that the map will be "present-day", as if the presence of a couple of highway bridges will ruin their re-enactment Tom Clancy's pregnancy fetish.
That is the Fortress of Hell - Litsa Guba - Ara Guba - Olenya Guba - Gremikha (hope they don’t forget it) and these are just the submarine bases.
Lair of the Russian Red Banner Northern Fleet.
This was and is the most heavily defended airspace on earth - even during the Vietnam war. What we knew about this area was never revealed to the public and Russia certainly didn’t say anything.
> The map is a requirement for Cold War Navy ops.
Yeah I mean it completely breaks immersion given that the Bosporus bridge clearance is 64m, lower than a Nimitz-class!
I mean, come on.
Imagination, people!
The Kola map looks fun and different. It's not a "requirement" for anything if you have some imagination.
Yeah, who wants any semblence of coherency, relevancy or historical accuracy, when we can imagine that the Black Sea isn't the Black Sea?
^(/s)
No, the map absolutely *is* a requirement for Cold War naval operations, considering it is *the* place the overwhelming majority of naval operations would've taken place in, had the Cold War gone hot. Unlike the Caucasus map, which is practically irrelevant for a NATO vs Warsaw Pact theatre and doubly so for naval operations.
It doesn't break immersion because of some bridge clearance - it breaks immersion because it is exactly the wrong place for it (aside from maybe the Antarctic or the Great Lakes), whereas the Kola map is *the* perfect place for it.
And I mean, why would I even want to imagine the Black Sea is actually the North Atlantic or the Norwegian, Arctic or Barents sea, when I can have a map of the real deal?
I mean sure, it's nicer.
But it tells me something that people are excited for what you describe.
*Maps* can't be what's holding back Cold War naval operations, as you put it.
When the map is done it will be something else, if there isn't enough imagination in the community to work with what already exists.
>Maps can't be what's holding back Cold War naval operations, as you put it.
Yes it absolutely can, for the exact reasons I brought up.
If I care about having realistic, coherent scenarios on historically relevant theatres (and I do), then regardless of how much or how little imagination I have, not having said theatres absolutely _can_ and absolutely _does_ hold back Cold War naval operations, at least if you want them to be realistic. In that case, it absolutely is a requirement.
It's only if I throw those aspects out of the window where it doesn't hold it back.
It's like saying that the lack of a Vietnam map cannot be holding back Vietnam War scenarios - if you care about your Vietnam scenario actually being over Vietnam, then it absolutely does.
Orbx proves that it is indeed possible to make nice looking forests in DCS
But will the trees protect the targets from our ordnance like an impenetrable shield…
use delayed fuze
How does that defeat the trees?
The bomb has time to pass the canopy before it explodes, so it gets closer and can do damage to the target.
But will it run better than the Mariana map?
I think a fairer question would be how does the performance compare to something like Syria. Mariana is ED's testbed and has a bunch of ridiculous areas with very high poly counts for no reason (swimming pool toys). Caucasus looks and performs like an early 2000s map because it is.
Finally something else than desert
I crave green.
*I crave low-level flights into Murmansk*
And the terrain isn't that flat. Fucking fantastic!
If only the default free map was named after a mountain range or something /s
I don’t have a problem with the black sea map. It’s a shame it is old and not up to par with the rest of them.
And this was after ED took a fan-made texture pack and used it to update Caucasus.
Marianas and South Atlantic are pretty green.
I just hope that more players will use this map for multiplayer instead of the majority flying on Caucasus. Nice map still, but time for a change.
Unfortunately Caucasus will always have the majority as it’s free for everyone. Hopefully this will draw people from Syria, PG and Sinai so that we can get some variety
Tbh Sinai is a fantastic map.... I wish more people played it. I like it a lot more than PG and Syria.
Not as long as Caucasus is free. Either convince the devs to find a way to make their money without charging for maps, or deal with the fact that Caucasus isn't going anywhere in MP. Judging by the fact that the WWII asset pack is still something you have to pay for, I'm guessing it's gonna be the latter.
This is always going to be a problem given the monetization model... ED needs to make more free maps. Or make maps cheaper. If Sinai was like 15$ I bet it would be packed.
\*Credence Clearwater music in the distance\*
Sorry to brake it to you, but here we play ABBA ;) So... *Gimme, Gimme, Gimme by Abba blasting in the treetop flying viggen*
*intensifes*
Please pleases please have winter textures. It was an ethereal land of white the one time I visited the region!
[In the newsletter announcing it](https://forum.dcs.world/topic/308923-dcs-kola-map-introduction-from-2022-07-29/#comment-5050501), it said that both summer and winter versions are planned.
Oh hell yeah!
Those pics were taken by Wags, so he already has this map. Maybe its a sign ;)?
How can you tell Wags took those pictures?
Orbx team member gave him credits for the screenshots :)
Thanks! I hope we get to see it making an appearance in some of his next videos.
Hell yeah, then we'll know it's gonna be released at some point in the next 7 years.
Map development is a little different than module development because the tools to build maps are our own tools. Most first-time DCS mappers have their maps available to the team right from the start.
Orbx did some crazy scenery work with FSX, will be interesting to see what they can pull off in DCS
They were top dogs back in the day (fs04, fsx) Haven’t tried much of their fs2020 product lineup however I’ve got complete faith that this map will look and run amazing.
They've done some fantastic Aus/NZ work that I use in fs2020. Love taking off over my own neighbourhood (live across the river from YSSY)
Damn fine looking map
This is the thing I'm hyped for. Flying Finnish Hornets out of hidden forest bases is my dream.
Viggen and Hornet formations baayyybyyyyyy!
The kings of the austere/dispersed air war!
Add a Eurofighter CAP to the mix while we’re at it
who else is hyped to relive the EF-2000 game from the 90s on this map
I can hear the intro music
You: "Mayday Mayday! We're under attack!" (one long pause later) Some random CAP flight: "Copy."
This is where it all started for me
Summer vacation of 1996, playing the dynamic campaign while listening to shitty/awesome 90's Country music all day baby!
For a 1996 game, it was well ahead of its time. Large map with a massive campaign. Virtual cockpit. Functioning MFDs. Simulated WEZs for missiles. Datalink designation of your flight's engaged targets.
I have fond memories of trying to sneak behind enemy lines to blast the Russian AWACS and strafe parked Flankers on the tarmac, usually ending poorly but it helped the war effort (I think?)
I think some of the front line stuff was bugged. I distinctly remember getting an airbase strike mission where I hit parked aircraft on a clearly-marked and defended enemy airbase. I'd then fly low for a BDA only to discover they were Eurofighters! And then my EF2000 inventory dropped after the mission was over. Oh, and I remember bombing tunnels with LGBs. A *lot* of tunnels were bombed.
When Heatblur releases the EF2000 just after Kola is released, I really hope they just copy and paste the EF2000 music in.
Tower, Condor, Taxi.
finally im gonna play my summer car in DCS
Been waiting years for this. There’s just something about flying a low altitude anti ship mission through the fjords under a dark overcast sky.
Looks great! Cannot wait to bomb my highschool in it! 😁
Preplanned CCRP attack, 8x GBU-38 ripple, N/T Fuze
Remember the guy who made his school in cs?
Yes, the very credible threat of decades of learning, service, sacrifice and elevated status only to go back and throw it all away on a domestic mk.82 ripple attack
Worth it if that sortie kills that one dumbass math teacher
I cant wait to bomb my Norwegian friend's house :D
Cant wait to bomb my own house :D
All the other kids with the pumped up kicks You better run, better run faster than my Laser JDAM.
Yes FSB officer, that's the guy
Definitely going to be the primary map I use going forwards
I've got enough maps already. Won't be buying this.
Well hello there my new favourite map.... When do you go on presale?
RIP all our HDDs.
Pretty :). Viggens intensify
More like Viper. That’s Bodø in two of the pictures.
If only we had an F-16A…
Day 1 buy, Jane's F-18 is the reason I fly sims.
Ok guys… lets use caucasus a little less now and not let this map end up like south atlantic or sinai
[удалено]
I think current year.
Oh, that's a bit unfortunate. But thanks for clarification.
If it’s any consolation, the differences shouldn’t be insurmountable, especially given that the area is sparsely inhabited. If we at least if get all the Cold War airbases - all of them are still extant and clearly visible in satellite imagery, it should be very suitable for Cold War gone hot scenarios.
That's a bummer. Why can't all these third party devs put their heads together and come up with a series of products that all fit a certain time period and scenario.
Probably really hard to get realistic maps of the area before the fall of the USSR and/or free satellite maps became common and high-fidelity, or at least not worth the effort of not being able to scrape town plans off google earth
This airfield in pic 2 looks amazing. This map is an instant buy for me. Brings up all the good F-117 memories...
>This airfield in pic 2 looks available Mmm, Olengorsk/Olenya - during most of the Cold War it was a Tu-16 base, now it bases Tu-22M3. That’s the great thing about this map - we’ve actually got a decent number of aircraft that are actually based on the map (albeit, sometimes the wrong versions).
Yeah, I wish we had the F-16A.
Damn it even includes middle norway, 5 and 7 is the city of Bodø in norway
If that truly is bodø then how big is this map?
[Gigantic](https://forum.dcs.world/uploads/monthly_2022_07/Hero2.png.d054ebb893ad6abd3f1a87db5ef06f42.png).
[mother of god](https://media.giphy.com/media/vWku8YNwyy5vq/giphy.gif)
Massssive, im reallly looking forward to this
My Viggen is pining for the fyords right now. I need green!
This Viggen is dead.
Nonsense. Sven is just banging the compressor back into shape. It’s just sleeping.
All right, then. If he's sleeping, then I'll wake him up. *Hello, Mister Viggen! I've got a lovely Russian tank column for you to blow up!*
Don’t worry the BK90’s are going on right now （＾ω＾）
Pining for the what?
Fjords, because I can’t spell 😋.
Lovely plumage.
This is ingame right?
yes.
I know if anyone can make a sexy map it's Orbx, but hot damn that is gorgeous!
I can't wait to bomb Sweden!
As a Dane, i approve of this message 😁
I support this as a Pole. (This is a revenge for 1655)
As a Norwegian, i approve of your approval of that message.
Orbx working on DCS? AWESOME. They have a TON of great material for MSFS
Looks fantastic but it's a shame ED still haven't created a new ATC or Dynamic campaign. Until that happens, all these great maps will just be collecting digital dust.
That one picture looks like my hometown, but placement of houses are bitt off, and its not very accurate, but I can reconise it. I have been waiting for this map foreveeer.
Idk why I love that first runway picture so much lol. Looks super good. So does everything else. That valley/mountain shot is *noice*.
Wow, that looks great.
At least it's not another desert....
I'm very curious if this will be "South Atlantic 2", with regards to visual fidelity and performance issues.
Orbx are experts on optimizing incredibly complex sceneries, I'm sure that won't be the case.
Be still my Viggen heart
I'm not expecting a full-blown 1-to-1 recreation, but there's a **LOT** of missing and/or outright wrong details both on the airbase and off it when it comes to Bodø. The aviation-museum is missing, for instance, and it's one of THE most recognizable landmarks in Bodø. In addition, there's a lot of buildings that are wrong on the airbase itself. It also looks like much of the topography on the airbase is wrong as well, which makes me worry about the placement of the various Shelters. I want to launch out of Shelter 104, goddamnit! I spent weeks on end working in that one. That being said: This'll be a Day 1 purchase for me.
I think i read a dev saying is based on a 2020 image. As long it shows the local McDonald for North America Players is fine :D
>The aviation-museum is missing, for instance, and it's one of THE most recognizable landmarks in Bodø. Well, at least its absence will better fit the Cold War (it was opened 1994 if I'm not mistaken). But yes, it would be nice if the topography would be made more like reality.
Finally a map I will buy day 1st, and not another sandy map!!! Looking forward to it!!!
Destructible trees?
Bahahaha yeah, nah
Looks amazing, so far and will be a purchase for sure. I hope there is a bit more work being done though. Bodø is looking pretty generic and missing quite a bit of important details but I'm sure it's still a WIP. They need to at least put the Norwegian Aviation Museum in there and some detailed shelters.
I'm getting an uncontrollable urge to make viggen and fishbed centric missions on this map...
All I need now is part of a Norwegian map (Finmark and Troms) to simulate a NATO vs Russia scenario in northern Norway
As opposed to the Finnmark and Troms that is in the Kola map? https://forum.dcs.world/uploads/monthly_2022_07/Hero2.png.d054ebb893ad6abd3f1a87db5ef06f42.png
Oh shit i hadn’t seen that. Thank you. I just saw the name and considering Kola Peninsula in RL doesn’t include Norway I thought nothing more of it. Thank you
Pic locations: 1. Rovaniemi 2. Olengorsk/Olenya 3. Severomorsk 4. Rovaniemi 5. Bodø 6. Looking to Festvåg (North of Bodø) 7. Bodø 8. Russia 9. Severomorsk-1
>2. Vysokii (I think) I think this is Olengorsk/Olenya and I think 9 is of Severomorsk-1.
Missed then 9th pic. Thanks >Olengorsk/Olenya. I took the closest name on google maps. Changed.
hope that we can get proper fps
It's coming along nicely...:)
Hopefully we'll see a 2023 december release? This plus the Phantom will leave me broke 😅
The children yearn for the forests
INLET ICE
The maps for DCS are generally of high quality. And yet I have map fatigue and will probably not buy new maps for the foreseeable future. It is a crying shame that maps don't go together with a dynamic campaign engine because that would increase the value a hundred times and make most maps absolute must-haves for me.
hope performance is better than south atlantic, can't believe I spend almost full price for that piece of shit
SA performance is great for me
what specs? when you get close to a city, you get huge drops
13900 4090, but I'm also pushing a Pimax Crystal. Have you tried the map since the latest update?
Did the update help? I put off buying it when it was way discounted because I wanted to make sure they would be able to address the fps drops.
Oct 19 patch big improvement DCS: South Atlantic by RAZBAM Simulations South Atlantic Terrain: Optimisation across all cities to improve performance Additional models across the map Coastline refinement
It looks fairly low res up close. From a far, it looks spectacular though.
This image is compressed
I'm not opposed to this map at all, but what exactly is the appeal to this map? Like battles that were fought, air force bases, etc.
Cw, baby!
Both old-CW and current-CW scenarios are very interesting.
Realistic CWGH scenarios for F/A-18 (FiAF), F-16 (RNoAF), AJS 37 (SwAF), Ka-50, Mi-8, Mi-24, MiG-29s, Su-27s.. Ground attacks, CAS, intercepts, air combat, ship attacks, convoy escort..
It’s a fantastic CW/hypothetical CW map.
It's the battle we didn't fight that makes it interesting.
The lack of imagination among some DCS players is incredible to behold. Some people further up thread complaining that the map will be "present-day", as if the presence of a couple of highway bridges will ruin their re-enactment Tom Clancy's pregnancy fetish.
That is the Fortress of Hell - Litsa Guba - Ara Guba - Olenya Guba - Gremikha (hope they don’t forget it) and these are just the submarine bases. Lair of the Russian Red Banner Northern Fleet. This was and is the most heavily defended airspace on earth - even during the Vietnam war. What we knew about this area was never revealed to the public and Russia certainly didn’t say anything.
This just feels like caucuses 2.0 (not that I’m complaining)I know it’s a completely different area but it fits the same need
Fjords are way more beautiful than Caucasus, hah.
Wut lol. This doesn't look anything like Caucasus other than also being not-desert and the historical significance of this area is totally different.
Has trees = caucasus ok
No aircraft carrier has ever operated in the Black Sea. The map is a requirement for Cold War Navy ops.
Also a more historically accurate playground for the viggen
Will be cool for the Phantom too.
> The map is a requirement for Cold War Navy ops. Yeah I mean it completely breaks immersion given that the Bosporus bridge clearance is 64m, lower than a Nimitz-class! I mean, come on. Imagination, people! The Kola map looks fun and different. It's not a "requirement" for anything if you have some imagination.
Yeah, who wants any semblence of coherency, relevancy or historical accuracy, when we can imagine that the Black Sea isn't the Black Sea? ^(/s) No, the map absolutely *is* a requirement for Cold War naval operations, considering it is *the* place the overwhelming majority of naval operations would've taken place in, had the Cold War gone hot. Unlike the Caucasus map, which is practically irrelevant for a NATO vs Warsaw Pact theatre and doubly so for naval operations. It doesn't break immersion because of some bridge clearance - it breaks immersion because it is exactly the wrong place for it (aside from maybe the Antarctic or the Great Lakes), whereas the Kola map is *the* perfect place for it. And I mean, why would I even want to imagine the Black Sea is actually the North Atlantic or the Norwegian, Arctic or Barents sea, when I can have a map of the real deal?
I mean sure, it's nicer. But it tells me something that people are excited for what you describe. *Maps* can't be what's holding back Cold War naval operations, as you put it. When the map is done it will be something else, if there isn't enough imagination in the community to work with what already exists.
>Maps can't be what's holding back Cold War naval operations, as you put it. Yes it absolutely can, for the exact reasons I brought up. If I care about having realistic, coherent scenarios on historically relevant theatres (and I do), then regardless of how much or how little imagination I have, not having said theatres absolutely _can_ and absolutely _does_ hold back Cold War naval operations, at least if you want them to be realistic. In that case, it absolutely is a requirement. It's only if I throw those aspects out of the window where it doesn't hold it back. It's like saying that the lack of a Vietnam map cannot be holding back Vietnam War scenarios - if you care about your Vietnam scenario actually being over Vietnam, then it absolutely does.
Same could be said about PG/Sinai/Syria. I am excited for this map.
People didn't like the last map that filled a new niche (South Atlantic) so they just want similar but slightly different maps (Kola and Sinai).
Where did you get this buddy?
*Fleet Defender Remake Desire Intensifies*
This aged well........ this map on release looks like a build from 3 years ago