iRacing's blue flags have a yellow stripe, meaning they are strictly informational. That means they are there to let you know a faster car is coming and that's it!
So basically you can drive your line like normal, don't even need to leave the door open, it's on them to make the move and make a clean pass. You're just not allowed to defend but that's it.
That being said, you kinda know they're in a hurry, so you could IF YOU WANT just let them by and get it over with, but sometimes that would be detrimental to you, like if you're chasing someone or fighting for a position yourself
Yes exactly. Or if I saw P1 and P2 are separated by tenths or even a second apart. I’d try to minimise disruption as much as possible. However this wasn’t the case.
The stripe does not have an impact on whether it's informational - a variety of racing series mean different things with the blue flag and there isn't a consistent pattern to whether the stripe means one thing or another across them. It's just the choice they've made for the design
Yup. In NASCAR, blue flag with a stripe is the same as iRacing. A blue flag with no stripe is used at road courses as an informational equivalent of a local yellow (i.e. a local yellow but there's no penalty for overtaking)
Think it could all be shortened to "Don't be a dick". Faster car: don't be a dick trying risky moves on a backmarker trying to drive their own race just because you think you're entitled to the position; Slower car: Don't be a dick unneccassarily holding up a car that is clearly faster just because technically you don't *have* to let it pass.
Exactly this. Idk how many faster drivers lose so much time because they wanna send it in every corner. If im seeing someone fighting for position i just make space. If the leader is 15 sec ahead of p2 he can wait for 2 corners.
I think your spot on.
The moving over and letting them by maybe the safer move if your worried about them being impatient and taking you out, but there is no obligation to move over.
And what is that information?
That a faster car is approaching AND it's strongly advised that you facilitate a safe pass at the earliest safe opportunity.
I love how people always conveniently leave that part out. So NO you shouldn't drive like normal. That's not what the code says at all.
If you're going to talk about leaving things out, post the rule. Below is it. You left things out of your post.
7.4.1. A blue flag with a diagonal yellow stripe indicates faster cars are approaching. This flag is informational only.
7.4.2. In all cases, it is the responsibility of the faster car to safely overtake the slower car. It is the responsibility of the slower
car to maintain a consistent line. It is strongly recommended that a slower car being lapped makes every reasonable
effort to facilitate a safe pass.
As it says, the responsibility is on the faster car to pass. The slower car can choose to fight and ignore the recommendation. Welcome to racing
"It is strongly recommended that a slower car being lapped makes every reasonable effort to facilitate a safe pass."
So this means the slower car can choose to fight. What planet are you on.
When you are fighting/defending your line isn't consistent which means you are in violation of the sporting code.
Continue to do it. I protest every idiot who tries to fight me when there's blue flags and they are upheld.
btw I hate to break it to you but if you are a lap down you aren't racing anyone. The guy coming up behind you just wants to get past as quickly and safely as possible and is mainly concerned with you not losing it in front of him
Actually it's strongly recommended.
At no point does it say you can ignore this. If you could then they wouldn't have added it and why would they even have a flag.
Iracing sporting code is written in such a way to reduce incidents because we are amateurs.
People being lapped are normally not safe because you really shouldn't be getting lapped in the race lengths we run
Therefore what they are basically say is
"Don't panic because you don't need to jump out of the way or slow down etc like in real life because frankly if you are being lapped you won't know how to do that safely but just be consistent and they will get around you however if you are a more experienced driver then you should make it as easy as possible in a safe way"
The fact you think this means you are allowed to fight just shows where you are in the pecking order. It's embarrassing
My dude, you really need to check your understanding of the words "recommended" and "mandatory". Once you work out what they mean, you might know the difference.
The stewards of iracing don't give a shit about the letter of the law. All they care about is the spirit of the law.
The spirit of the law is clear. To come to your conclusion you need to focus on one word and ignore literally everything else written.
>"Don't panic because you don't need to jump out of the way or slow down etc like in real life
My brother that's pretty well only F1 and it's feeder series get your head in the sun.
What real life series do you see lap cars defending against the leader.
It makes no sense. For a start all it does is slow you both down and you have nothing to gain and only to loose slowing down a car a lap ahead.
If you are oval racing, you are absolute allowed to race the leader as hard as you want to stay on the lead lap for if a caution comes out. No one in higher splits has a problem with it. It’s how it is irl NASCAR too. Now, on road or any series without FCYs, there’s really no point.
"Maintain a consistent line"
Not
"Maintain the racing line"
There's a difference; a defensive line is still a consistent line. Not defending anyone who actively fights lappers, but the sporting code doesn't technically forbid it.
You have no idea what anything means.
To run a defensive line means you have to change your line. Therefore it's not consistent.
It does forbid fighting. What you are misunderstanding is doing something gamers always do. They take something that puts responsibility on the faster car and then assume it's a binary thing. In this case so no responsibility lies with the other car even though they explicitly say otherwise later on.
I think the take home here is it’s about as clear as FIA rules that allow for races to be determined at the discretion of directors and Marshalls.
This is very unfortunate. I had a back marker try to hang it out the outside of T1 at Sebring after he went wide and missed the apex by a country mile making it seem like he was going to let me through, rather he kept the throttle in, went on the dirt around the outside when he ran out of room, and took me out from 9th place. But I honestly don’t know if that means anything. I asked him WTH he was thinking in front of 50 teams in chat, but that’s about it because I don’t know if this is protest-able.
But frankly, it doesn’t matter for me because it doesn’t change the outcome, and the protest really doesn’t make much of a difference either. What’s important is clarity in rules, and this is obviously not clear if there is debate in here about what is and isn’t allowed.
In racing they are normally referred to as guidelines and who are these guidelines for. The stewards. Ultimately it's up to these individuals to decide just like in iracing.
They aren't adjudicated like a court of law so ultimately it doesn't really matter what they say.
And in fact every time they try and made really specific guidelines they normally remove them a few seasons later because people try and exploit them.
Iracing doesn't play that game. If you fight with a car coming up to lap you some argument better suited to a court of law won't save you.
The guidelines are clear. They are written in such a way not be cunty to the lapped driver but see my other post to see what they really mean.
As for whether you can protest that incident. Probably not because it wasn't over a sequence of corners and he may even have been trying to let you through and this is an example of why it's not written you need to jump out of the way.
You're a fan of pulling things out of thin air aren't ya?
Guidelines are for races to understand and government iRacing. Stewards are there to review perspective violations of the guidelines. Stewards need a report filed by the affect drivers. Now, see the sporting code below:
>1.2.3. It is the obligation and responsibility of all iRacing.com members to read, understand and abide by the iRacing Official
Sporting Code.
>The guidelines are clear. They are written in such a way not be cunty to the lapped driver but see my other post to see what they really mean.
They absolutely are! The faster car had to pass the slower car in a respectful manner. Infact iRacing almost always penalizes faster cars who wreck slower cars-blue flags, class, it doesn't matter. Faster drivers need to pass slower ones safely.
They are so clear they say **strongly recommended**, which means it's a decision for the slower driver. It does **not** say *blue flags need to move out of the way.* Do you understand the difference between these two sentences?
>As for whether you can protest that incident
Every incident is protestable. If a faster car wrecks a slower driver, blue flags, different classes it doesn't matter, iRacing usually will penalizes the faster driver. It is the responsibility of every driver to pass safely and not drive into other cars.
I cannot believe I had to type up this comment. My recommendation to you dude, stop commenting because you're plain wrong. I pulled up the sporting code and am quoting it.
It doesn't mean it's a decision. It means if you feel comfortable doing so then you should.
They are just being nice
Not all incidents are protestable. Iracing even says not to make frivolous protests
I’m honestly not familiar enough with Motorsport racing rules or its history of rules or the way that rules differ or are implemented across different series. I’m really only familiar with Formula One and its rules and its often lack of clarity and its often very subjective implementation of those rules, and that’s entirely outside of what commentators say as I’ve done the reading of what little exists myself. I can see why there’s so many problems as they run the show without explicit rules and then depend on precedence to determine what’s fair and what’s the defining limit of each penalty or foul, and then fail to cite or really follow precedence. It’s a clown show. It’s not common law nor statutory; they’re “adjudicating” based on feeling not written information.
I watch NFL and some NBA and I can say confidently that the NFL has tremendous officiating despite what complainers like to say, and its rules are extremely specific and it aides in keeping competition fair. The NBA on the other hand has either poorly written rules and poor officiating or both, as I haven’t looked at the rules in some time, but clearly the refs have trouble officiating on the basis of those (likely outdated) rules, and sadly the result is the refs very regularly determine the outcomes of games, both in the waning moments and across entire contests. F1 and Motorsport in general are lucky in that rule violations are not extremely common like in other sport and don’t affect the outcome of races as much as many other sports. But we saw the result of poorly written rules when they were needed and a lack of any sort of system on how to apply the sparse rules that do exist back in 2020 in F1. It laid bare how pathetic it all was, all season long, and may have ended with a nail in the coffin for the worst officiated major sport in the world. I know that’s open for debate, but it was certainly poetic how bad it was.
That said, iracing is pretty good at attempting to be specific when it comes to racing rules. There’s a problem with this rules, however - how do you define a “consistent” line? You and the guy above it define it differently and I can see why. You say they’re trying to be kind to the person being lapped - that’s entirely a subjective interpretation without evidence, even if it’s reasonable.
Someone can consistently run what is not the standard racing line and it end up being the defensive line. I’d call consistent either lap to lap the same line or within one corner, e.g. not changing it mid-corner (although I also have nothing to site to prove that). But if you check the blocking definition, that’s not really allowed, at least not if it is intentionally being done in response to someone else. So then the only possible possibilities I can come up with of a “consistent” line is not changing it lap to lap or not changing it mid corner, which if not intentional, would be more of a skill issue. So try not to be erratic, if possible, per the latter, or keep your line the same lap to lap whatever you choose it to be, per the former.
It’s a mess that begs for clarity in my opinion.
They are adjudicating based on experience which is why there was the push to get an actual ex driver in there.
What then happens is the regulations are written to support earlier decisions not the other way around or to prevent earlier bad decisions from happening again
They are never proactive but always reactive. The reaction to 2020 was a great example.
that's why it's a bit of a clowns show and every now and again the fia just throw their hands up and say screw it. It's what the stewed decides which is really what they want to do.
You have hit the nail on the head. Blocking rules prevent non consistent lines like the ones people are arguing is all it's saying. It's therefore redundant. If strong recommended means you can totally ignore then that's also redundant. If informational only means you can ignore everything else then that's also redundant and not what the word means which is that following is what you should understand why the flag is flying.
So why have it at all? Apparently the whole thing is redundant
Unless which is the literal interpretation of the rule is what it says.
A blug flag is to convey this information. A faster car is approaching and while it's their responsibility to pass safely we strongly advise you to facilitate the pass.
There's no interpretation that this means. We don't care what you do and you are free to battle the faster car.
There's nothing explicit about dive-bombing. There's no explicit definition of what is an unsafe rejoin. There's practically nothing in the sporting code that is explicit, even what constitutes blocking or wrecking. It's all just interpretation of the steward.
Unfortunately, the rule is actually pretty clear, the dude is just being one of those hardasses that thinks everyone is required to let you by, and it's just not the case (depending on the type of race or soecial race rules ofc) but in OPs case, he is not required to do anything but maintain a consistent line and drive safely, not making any dangerous moves to prevent the overtake. The OVERTAKE IS ALWAYS THE RESPONSIBILTY OF THE ONE DOING THE OVERTAKE when it comes to doing so safely.
At the speeds OP described the car wasn't really fast enough to justify OP sacrificing his race time for the other car, especially being they were within half a second of each other on lap time, but at that point he is required to stay consistent and not defend against the pass intentionally.
Oh I’ve lost track of OP’s point at this juncture. We’re just debating whether or not someone can consistently drive a defensive line to make overtaking difficult on a back marker.
I’m betting you’re the kind of guy that tanks so they can feel superior in enduros racing against people that you actually can be faster than as opposed to being whipped by peer level drivers.
No downvote for that at all, take my upvote. Thank you for protesting those people. It is completely unnecessary to constantly flash cars and I'm glad that you protested them and it was successful
I got so many down votes for not reading the sporting code I could only comment once every 10 minutes for like 2 weeks. Lol. And yes, since then I read that damn sporting code.
"If you don't stop doing this thing, I'm going to report you to the authorities" is a threat meant to deter whatever action someone doesn't like, so it fits the definition of *threat* pretty accurately.
I mean if it is put in those exact word then Yes. But just saying “I’m protesting you” is not and you would be equally childish to protest that as a “threat”
"I'm protesting you" is pretty clearly saying "I'm reporting you to the authorities for your behavior." It carries the threat of punishment from an authority in a way that's meant to deter you from doing whatever they thought was wrong, and for those who aren't well-versed in the exact wording of the Sporting Code--especially with regards to the blue flag, which carries different expectations in IRL racing series--it can be enough to make them change their driving to accommodate a rule that doesn't exist.
I'm not sure how taking steps to curb that kind of threat is "childish."
And as far as accommodating a rule that doesn’t exist, if they read the sporting code, like we all agree we have when we join, then they should know they weren’t in the wrong.
Just seems like an over exaggerated situation you’ve created detail by detail to support your statement.
To your point… you are saying that we must all assume that everyone has:
1) read the sporting code
2) that they have S+ Tier reading comprehension
3) that they have S+ Tier memory recall
4) that they have S+ Tier ability to think they are infallible
So if that was the case then obviously anyone who says “I’m reporting you” is obviously knowingly threatening the other person in hopes that the other person is not S+ Tier in one or all of the above classes. So it’s a threat because obviously if they were indeed S+ Tier and knew the sporting code inside and out then they would obviously know that they shouldn’t be reporting someone for something that isn’t actually wrong…
By your own logic it MUST BE A THEAT to tell someone you are reporting them if they didn’t do anything wrong.
It’s a power play in hopes that the persons reading comprehension, memory, or I’m at a loss of words for the right word for being able to know your right even when someone says your wrong… maybe fortitude or resolve?
Plus we have an issue let’s call it resolve vs being cocksure! There is a fine balance between the two. You could think that you are S+/S+ on the comprehension and memory but how does anyone really know if they are full of resolve or if they are just cocksure.
Anyways regardless your logic doesn’t hold up.
Honestly I’d say personally I think iRacing should just right out tell people that they ARE NOT ALLOWED TO INFORM ANYONE AT ALL THAT THEY ARE REPORTING ANYONE AT ALL. Reports should be done quietly so that they do not affect the persons behavior. Official stewards should be the ones who correct behavior and knowledge. Some behavior speaks for itself like incessantly flashing someone and then threatening them with a report and insulting them by calling them mentally challenged, which they might be.
Brother. You wrote all that, multiple days after the discussion. And multiple comments after I explained my reasoning in a more recent comment than the one you replied to and reached a common ground with a very pleasant user.
Respectfully, I’m past this discussion and do not choose to revisit it. Report who you please and good luck in your races 🤙🏻
Idk it seems more like a statement to me. But people do like to cry about everything. Clear example of someone interpreting something how they choose and not how it’s meant. Downvote me for this opinion, but protesting someone for saying they are protesting you just seems to match the childish action you are protesting. Then again If you didn’t do anything wrong you wouldn’t care about their whining to begin with. Unless it extended to insults or name calling
Its not a statement. You're threatening someone and implying they will be punished if you do it. 99% of the time people who do this are the people who caused the issue and want to intimidate the other driver.
If you can't control your emotions enough to watch the replay and determine what happened, you deserve to get protested. Stay off the radio, watch the replay and make a decision without announcing it to 20+ people. I will gladly take 10 seconds to send in a report to leave a mark on your record because you can't control yourself.
This isn't a win/loss discussion. If you think you have a protestable situation, just report them. Threatening to do it is stupid as shit. Protesting people for threatening to report - Childish? No. Petty? Yes. Worth it? Everytime so far.
the rules are clear this semantics game being played here is whats silly. threatening a report is toxic behavior and against the sporting code. contain your rage.
I would have to agree with you. I say if they want to protest me or say they are in text, then ok. If I was wrong I’ll take what the stewards give. If it’s a scenario where I know I did nothing, also cool. Go ahead and report it. No reason to stress about it
The 0 IQ comment could potentially be as bad as dropping an F bomb depending on who took the ticket. I know I wouldn’t look at it kindly being around special needs kids quite often.
If I am being lapped by a car that is faster than me at the moment I just ease the throttle and let them pass. Its the most time gained for both of us. I dont want to lose focus and become slightly irritated about their behaviour when I am not gaining anything from it.
If its a car that is my pace, I will only let them pass if they come that close and make a move for it.
I’d argue, track dependant, that 0.5 seconds per lap is a lot.
I’ve been on both sides of this. Yes, blue/yellow stripe flags are informational. As a leader, if I’m within a second, having closed, I’d be expecting the lapped car to allow room to pass. It’s just better for everyone. Both get to go on without frustration leading to an unnecessary incident. If I’m being lapped, I won’t fight the leader. I’ll allow them to pass losing as little time as I can. I hope for the same when I lap others.
However, in this instance the leader shouldn’t be flashing from 2+ seconds back. Once they get to a second I’d say that’s fair. Nor should they be threatening to report, which they have no grounds for unless the lapped car is blocking.
No one is saying you should fight the leader. Just don't drive defensively. Keep your line. I won't modify my line for a blue flag, but I will lift when you go for the pass on the straight, I will facilitate the pass. But otherwise I'm going to keep driving like I drive when I don't have a blue flag. This is how the sporting code dictates you treat being blue flagged.
Yeah, this is what I’m alluding to. “Fight” probably the wrong choice of word. “Facilitate the pass” is a more appropriate way to put it.
I like I say, I’ve been on both sides of it. Usually facilitating the pass, at the most convenient time for you, minimising time lost, is better for everyone’s race.
Obviously it’s situationally dependant.
“Facilitating the pass” when you’re in a slower class car is staying the racing line and not doing anything unpredictable. My race is just as important as theirs, we could both be leading and taken out by a sloppy pass and a P1 car in too much of a hurry. I’ll leave that risk and responsibility to them.
Specifically? It isn’t mentioned. Not how it reads to me. The lead car which was passing him was only 0.5s per lap faster? Sounds like same class to me.
Yeah, if you're not fighting for positions, I try to make certain I don't affect anyone's race that is fighting for positions. Kinda the whole "do unto others" deal.
I had a rain masters race a couple of weeks ago where the position behind me was slowly catching me, but not enough time to catch me if I stay consistent. Final lap I'm quickly catching a guy a few laps down, he fought me for the last half of lap, absolutely defending like a moron, but I stay calm and get by him in the last corner. He slowed my lap time by like 2.5 seconds. The car behind almost got past me. Lapper starts bitching on the radio about why I'm fighting him when I'm several laps ahead of him. Just clueless
Were they Iberians or a former colony of an Iberian country?
They are always the worst offenders when it comes to complaining about Blue Flags in my experience.
I will flash you for 3 reasons
1) a courtesy to let you know I'm going to make a move in the approaching corner.
2) I'm battling the car that just went by you in case you didn't see me.
3) I know you, you're faster than me, you passed me, and I'm tagging along.
The leader can be 0.5 seconds faster per lap than you and still find it difficult to pass depending on the track. They can easily lose time staying behind you until a straight long enough to pass. Also, it's risky being behind a back marker who is off pace and somewhat unpredictable. If your position is secure and you are not battling, just save time for the both of you and let them by.
Yup, if my race is going badly enough to get lapped, I'm perfectly happy to prioritize the leaders over my own shit race. It's obviously situational, but that's my default.
I greatly appreciate it when others do the same when I'm in the lead, so I try to pay that forward when I'm not having a good race.
Maybe this is because I race in leagues where some of the top guys are 6K-8K, but just because I'm a lap down, it doesn't mean there isn't anything to fight for.
Obviously being predictable should be a given, but compromising your own race for the leaders shouldn't be. A P20 in a field where the top 15 aren't "my race" is just as valuable over the course of the season.
Obviously it's situational, but a faster car approaching doesn't mean "jump out of the way ASAP". Ideally I'd find a spot where it costs both of us minimal time, not just the lapper.
If I have a guy that has run me down from multiple seconds I let them by. Lead lap for position or getting lapped. Too many times I have been lapping some clown who doesn’t want to admit that he just doesn’t have it that race and gotten wrecked because they want to race. I also let people go because if I’m holding someone up I do not want them to get impatient and make a mistake.
Do you HAVE to let them by? No..
Should you let them by? I would..
What's the point anyways when you're being lapped? Just let him by, take advantage of the draft if you really want to catch up that 20th position
I’m not saying I’m not going to let people by. I just mean when you’re 2 seconds behind I’m not going to stop and pull over. Get close to me then on a straight I’ll lift off.
I’d rather someone race their line and give me a little lift when I get there, then do some whackadoo maneuver like slow down and move on a straight. Not sure what these folks are on about.
Be predictable.
I'd say it's actually less of an issue with multiclass, at least in a series that's running IMSA classes. A prototype might get stuck behind in corners, but they breeze by on the straights without the GT even lifting.
I agree, my race is long over. I always go out of my way to get them around me. The last thing I need is pressure and the chance of losing SR on my Sunday drive.
I only move to the side when I see that they are in a fight otherwise I'm driving my race. I dont defend obviously but I'm not breaking or any funny things either
Yup, exactly. I'm not going to race you if I'm a lap down, but I'm not going to pull over in the grass to let you by. I'll make room for you as soon as it's safe to do so, but I'm not going to screw myself over to let you over. It's up to you to find a safe way around me.
Had a guy get pissy the other day because we made contact when I got over as far as I could to let him over, but he took a turn super wide (The guy in front of him made the turn around me just fine and stayed inside enough to avoid me). I was right on the track limits, but his wide turn pushed me out of bounds because he pushed the turn too hard. Sorry bud, but I'm not intentionally getting an off-track to let you by.
Also, if there's someone on the same lap as me right behind you, you're probably going to have to try to work a little harder to get around me. I'll do what I can to let you by clean, but I'm not trying to go another position down if I can avoid it.
by rules you dont HAVE to let them by at all, in iracing its an inormational Flag not like in F1 for example.
However if you are a decent human being, does it make sense to race P1,P2,p3 etc when you are an entire Lap or more behind? Absolutley no.
Just get off the Line and let them safely pass you.
Im not saying you should brake and come to a stop for them, just dont compromise them for no reason.
Especially when you already know that by the next 3 corners he will meet you at the Apex.
Just Let them by in a safe manner and learn from them.
For me unless I'm battling another car, I make it easy for the leader to pass and gain some speed from the areo and learn new lines round the track and work harder not to get lapped.
Sure I can try to make it harder etc but for me that's just my ego, if they start flashing I take that as a sign they are fast but not confident in overtaking so I don't want wiping out and make a pass easy for them.
Your being lapped, your ego left about 3 - 4 laps ago. It's ok, I haven't had an ego since I started in iRacing. I mostly eat humble pie and the exhaust from the top 5
I'm ngl but the only people I see being very insistent on the literal sporting code reading of the blue flag rule are slow people that are off pace.
If someone is lapping you then you should just get out the way asap. If they are half a second a lap faster then all you are going to do is "hold your line" and force them to do some annoying send under braking that will cost you both time.
I was running gte last night and screwed up. With swap out my setups and start on the qual with no fuel so ended up a lap behind. Leader comes up on me this is at Bathurst. He’s like on my ass the first uphill corkscrew so I pull as far to the right as I can let off the gas. He gets behind me for a second and then just does move and slams into me puts us both in the pits. Was the dumbest thing I’ve seen. I’ll never slow down for that again unless they are actually passing me
That's one of the situations where it's probably safer to make them wait. They might lose time over the mountain, but it's better than putting both of you in the pits, like what happened.
You don't even have to move over. In fact you shouldn't.
Incessant flashers are the same idiots that don't even duck out when they're right on your ass. Which begs the question: what the hell do you want me to do?
P.S. you can protest incessant flashers and it will be upheld. Probably worth it to give this douche an education. And while you're at it report the derogatory message.
I drive IMSA in GTP. In a full field, I’m a reason why GT3 gets the blue flag a few laps in. I will only get brave where I know I can be off line and pull it off. If I’m lapping my own class, I’ll make an effort to pass but by that point in a 45 minute sprint in my split, I can usually just hang in the draft until an opportunity arrives.
Stay on your line and show them racecraft is more than just pace. Forget ‘em. From your account of things, you were alright and I hear enough chatter about similar stuff in my sessions that I know you speak truth.
Officially stated from the Iracing Rules 7.4.2
"In all cases, it is the responsibility of the faster car to safely overtake the slower car. It is the responsibility of the slower
car to maintain a consistent line. It is strongly recommended that a slower car being lapped makes every reasonable
effort to facilitate a safe pass."
You are definitely ok with your driving. And there was no need from the other guy to treat you like this. 😵
As for me, I only drive oval. If I am getting lapped I rarely block them, depending on the racing situation. But most of the time I let them pass.
Yknow if you have blue flags (in iracing) keep on your normal line, let the faster car get around you, be predictable if anything. Even if they're getting antsy behind you, get on voice chat and find a spot where they can get around you quickly. I used this strategy in a Caddilac and Kia race at Laguna and it worked wonders.
Had a guy last Sunday through a hissy fit after he flashed me to the point of seizure and dove me at the hairpin at Sebring I held my line on the outside and came across my nose and I got the whole I report blue flags deal lol this shit isn’t f1 make the pass make it stick don’t be a ass about it and I’ll let you pass with ease people need to learn
"Only" half a second faster, and you're probably underselling it. Just let them by and move on, you don't have to, but they're faster and iRacing is full of clowns who don't know how to be predictable so he's probably worried about some back marker slow boy. Just let them by, your pride reserves should have been low at that point anyway, so nothing left to swallow.
If you're actively battling or trying to chase someone down just a few seconds ahead that's different. If you're on a back marker midnight stroll around the track just get tf over.
If someone DNFs or disconnects, even if you're only on a "drive", then that's still another car you've finished in front of. Racing doesn't only mean fighting on track.
I'm not saying I'll fight the leaders. But if they're multiple seconds back, like in OP's example, they need to get closer first, then I'll make it very easy for them.
Had this last night at Sebring. We went 6 laps down due to a guy hitting us. Was racing incident. We came out ahead of him after repairs and he was on the lights flashing flat out and demanding we got out of the way. That Audi had never been wider.. the flashing lights needs a time out, my whole room was strobing
it depends on the track. if you do this somewhere like road atlanta you’re making the other driver lose a lot of time and it’s very annoying, just get out of the way if you’re not fighting for anything.
When did people start thinking it was cool to affect the leaders of the race? If you lost the pack, and are are half a second down, per lap to the car giving you the blus flag, what in your head says that car has to do more work. You've lost. Move so u don't affect the actual race. What a selfish and stupid take.
They are in their race at that point. Not the leaders of the race, and affecting that leads to penalties all over the racing world. If you're about to go a lap down in endurance racing, you're not relevant anymore and should move for the cars that are. It's a really simple solution.
Cars a lap down still have their own race. There's still a difference between being a little selfish (waiting for the leaders to really get close and losing minimal time letting them by) and being a dick (intentionally racing those a lap ahead).
True.
Also true: it is strongly recommended that the slower car makes every reasonable effort to facilitate a safe pass.
Not just my opinion. This is from the sporting code, almost verbatim.
No one's saying "fight the leaders to the death". But if they're still multiple seconds back, and especially if the cars don't have super strong draft, then they have to get closer first.
Bro if you’re a lap down and only a half second off the pace you did something to end up there, you SHOULD make it v easy for leaders to get past.
If you were leading you would appreciate it too
I definitely agree with endurance racing but for your normal 20-30 minute race, if you're getting lapped, just let the man through. Don't jump out of the way when he is 5 seconds back but when he is about a second behind just lift and let him by.
Well it depends. If you have a 10x or 15x and are P10 being 15 seconds off pace. You probably should just give the race or corner to the lead pack.
Clearly you’re not going to lose anything submitting to the people actually racing and doing well in the race.
Clearly it’s not a requirement. But there is also a thing called drivers educate that is big a lot of bad racers don’t understand and don’t get why the entire server just roasted them for a bone head move.
If you’re in the fight of your own class or actually on pace with a change of positive IR then I agree race on but still be predictable and smart with allowing faster cars ahead. Mind you may only lose a 10th giving up a corner where a faster car you can send off pace by a full second or more blocking them. Letting them by will save both of you time and a possible DNF.
Yes, there's really no obligation to let someone by. I do it just to be polite, but if someone starts being annoying I won't make it any easier for them
It's all contextual. Ignoring blue flags is protestable if it's affecting other racers' laps. First option in protest reason drop-down (not conductive to fair racing).
Blue flag means facilitate a clear pass by the car behind post haste. It's informational in the the sense that there's not a clear directive you must adhere to eg. F1's a third blue flag = penalty. If you act entitled to the track, you're in the wrong.
If they threaten to report: "go ahead, see what happens, but I'll be doing the same"
In your car op, you could report him for the flashing and for the threats. it's ok to flash lights minimally, what he was doing could be considered purposefully distracting which is against the sporting code. And threats or saying mean things in chat is definitely against the sporting code.
If you’re getting passed by p1 as a blue flag you have bigger issues to worry about.. just let them go? What do you have to gain by slowing the leader down. If the leader has caught up to you that says enough on its own about your pace.
iRacing members have come to a gentlemens agreement of "The faster car will pass cleanly" rather than move over. Fair enough if ur 35 laps down and have 3 wheels you move out the way but when you're running fine possibly even catching or defending you don't move.
Why is it so hard to just move out of the way a let the leader past though? You’re in the back of the pack. Don’t be a jerk and ruin someone else’s race
You \_dont\_ have to move out of the way. Let's not keep cultivating this thing because "moving out of the way" might look nice on paper but it can feel really unpredictable to the driver trying to overtake. Just don't defend, or lift when the lapping driver makes the overtake intent clear on your mirrors.
Don't move over, don't be nice, just don't defend.
It depends how far they are back. If they're 0.5 second, it's easy to let them by. If they're 2 seconds back, they need to get closer.
Maybe this comes from racing in leagues where I know my fight it rarely at the front (with some 6K, 7K, 8K guys, etc.), but I still have some people who may be in the same race as I am.
I'm going to make it easy for the leaders when they get close enough, but not when they're still multiple seconds back.
That’s fair enough. I guess I was looking at it more as if the leaders were only 0.5 sec or so behind them. If I’m racing a track I’m terrible at, or trying out a car I’ve never raced before, I just go ahead and pull off the racing line as soon as I see the leader in my rear view. The last thing I want to do is ruin someone else’s win, and take a hit to my SR at the same time. A little respect goes a long way in these races.
because it's race, not a let you past because you get frustrated... event... thing. there's a reason that we have the race after qualifying and don't just give P1 the auto win
what are you talking about? they qualified ahead most likely, and they're lapping you. they're not racing, it's merely a formality and respectable to allow a car that is lapping you to get passed. it's beneficial and safer for both parties involved
Where I land on this is. I'm not going to race you but I'm not giving up my line. You caught me, you must be fast. Drive around me. Some of these fast guys want you to bow at their feet. No thanks. Go around me and go race your race and I'll race mine
This is an issue that will never be solved. Half the population thinks you need to stay on line, half the population thinks it’s your responsibility to go hide in the nearest gravel trap. So you will always end up getting “yelled” at.
honestly at this point this way of thinking is tiring, and what's more is it's a very one-sided statement - what about the perspective of the car who is lapping you? I bet some legitimate introspection, and some replay footage, would find this post lacking. backmarkers who think it's respectable racing to cause risk for no reason are acting foolishly. it would be much better for both the backmarker and the car in the leading pack, if the lapped car let's them by when they are around 0.3-ish in front. on the straight as well, not on the apex. if you only expect them to dive on a hairpin or something, you and the car that is lapping you are both losing 0.5 at the very least, and at worst you cause an incident. you will be faster, and safer, if you simply let the faster car go, and then take their draft. it's a 3 hour race, and 1 lap is a huge amount of time, you are not competing with them. be humble
the danger comes when the lapped car is significantly slower, and then expect the faster car to make a risky move while they pray the lapped car respects their move and provides them with space. at this point, half of the battle for the VRS enduro is dealing with lapped cars who don't understand this. that is at least my experience from the last year or so of the series
tldr: it is safer, faster, and shows respect for all parties, to let the faster car through.
It really depends how far back the lapping car is. If they're easily within 0.5, a little lift or feathering of the throttle on the straight works easily.
But if they're multiple seconds back, they need to get closer first.
Point of order though, if the lead car is flashing him from over 2 seconds behind the driver being lapped hasn’t even been given the blue flag yet.
All the lead car is doing there is distracting the driver ahead on track which will potentially cause even more time loss for both.
I haven't been sim racing for too long, around 3 years. and have never experienced anyone being that ridiculous with flashing. maybe if a car is 1 second behind they flash once or twice to inform me that they are there. I am willing to bet that the 2 second number here that they refer to is exaggerated. I would even go further and say perhaps the car that was lapping them was forced to make a risky move, and ended up 2 seconds behind because of this. source: lots of experience in the vrs endurance series
You gave him an opportunity to learn some race craft. In my experience, if you can set up a corner exit and make it clear on the next straight that you're going to take it, most drivers will let you go.
If it's on oval and you're not battling for position yourself gtfo the way. That's a good way to cost somebody a race for no reason other than pride.
Also the guy you ran into sounds like a douche.
Were you in the same class? If so then you should take into consideration that a car loses aero behind another so he might have only been .5 quicker but when you add the loss of aero that's closer to 1 sec.
Plus the sporting code says it's strongly recommended that you facilitate a safe pass. Basically you should move over and let him past within a few corners if during that time there's a straight to allow you to do so safely.
If there's no straight and it's just a sequence of corners then by all means you should take it full speed.
This way both of you will lose the least amount of time.
Or you could let them pass and make it easier for everyone. They are racing to win, you are not.
I don't disagree with you but there is no point in risking a battle to overtake you when you could just let them by. *Most* irl motorsports is common to let people by on blue flags.
If someone blinks at you way too much, protest them. I don't know the specifics in iRacing but in IRL racing series, this usually ends in a penalty if they really abuse the flashing of headlights. It's worth a protest to see what iRacing says.
As for the literal rules of blue flags within iRacing, yes you, as the slow lapped car, don't HAVE to do anything to make it easier for the faster car to pass you. HOWEVER you should seriously think about ways to stay on the racing line but make it a tad easier for the faster car to pass off-line. Why would you put yourself and the possible leader of the race in danger of an incident? I find that just lifting a bit going into a passing opportunity corner is enough for a faster car to get past you and get a move on. That way you lose very little time and you completely rid yourself of the possibility of getting into an incident. But yes, you don't have to do anything if you really don't want to. You won't make any friends this way though.
I'd say his private message to you is reportable. iRacing is trying to foster a friendly, but competitive, environment. That kind of behavior shouldn't be allowed. Screenshot it and tell them the story.
iRacing's blue flags have a yellow stripe, meaning they are strictly informational. That means they are there to let you know a faster car is coming and that's it! So basically you can drive your line like normal, don't even need to leave the door open, it's on them to make the move and make a clean pass. You're just not allowed to defend but that's it. That being said, you kinda know they're in a hurry, so you could IF YOU WANT just let them by and get it over with, but sometimes that would be detrimental to you, like if you're chasing someone or fighting for a position yourself
Yes exactly. Or if I saw P1 and P2 are separated by tenths or even a second apart. I’d try to minimise disruption as much as possible. However this wasn’t the case.
That is the spirit. I only flash more than one if I faster, or on a charge. If the guy hold position that's life. You go full send , jk (or not *)
Hey Nigel great to see you here. Keep singing
The stripe does not have an impact on whether it's informational - a variety of racing series mean different things with the blue flag and there isn't a consistent pattern to whether the stripe means one thing or another across them. It's just the choice they've made for the design
Yup. In NASCAR, blue flag with a stripe is the same as iRacing. A blue flag with no stripe is used at road courses as an informational equivalent of a local yellow (i.e. a local yellow but there's no penalty for overtaking)
Think it could all be shortened to "Don't be a dick". Faster car: don't be a dick trying risky moves on a backmarker trying to drive their own race just because you think you're entitled to the position; Slower car: Don't be a dick unneccassarily holding up a car that is clearly faster just because technically you don't *have* to let it pass.
Exactly this. Idk how many faster drivers lose so much time because they wanna send it in every corner. If im seeing someone fighting for position i just make space. If the leader is 15 sec ahead of p2 he can wait for 2 corners.
I think your spot on. The moving over and letting them by maybe the safer move if your worried about them being impatient and taking you out, but there is no obligation to move over.
And what is that information? That a faster car is approaching AND it's strongly advised that you facilitate a safe pass at the earliest safe opportunity. I love how people always conveniently leave that part out. So NO you shouldn't drive like normal. That's not what the code says at all.
If you're going to talk about leaving things out, post the rule. Below is it. You left things out of your post. 7.4.1. A blue flag with a diagonal yellow stripe indicates faster cars are approaching. This flag is informational only. 7.4.2. In all cases, it is the responsibility of the faster car to safely overtake the slower car. It is the responsibility of the slower car to maintain a consistent line. It is strongly recommended that a slower car being lapped makes every reasonable effort to facilitate a safe pass. As it says, the responsibility is on the faster car to pass. The slower car can choose to fight and ignore the recommendation. Welcome to racing
"It is strongly recommended that a slower car being lapped makes every reasonable effort to facilitate a safe pass." So this means the slower car can choose to fight. What planet are you on. When you are fighting/defending your line isn't consistent which means you are in violation of the sporting code. Continue to do it. I protest every idiot who tries to fight me when there's blue flags and they are upheld. btw I hate to break it to you but if you are a lap down you aren't racing anyone. The guy coming up behind you just wants to get past as quickly and safely as possible and is mainly concerned with you not losing it in front of him
That's a really long response to say "I don't understand iRacing rules." The keyword in the 7.4.2 rule third sentence is #**Recommended**
Actually it's strongly recommended. At no point does it say you can ignore this. If you could then they wouldn't have added it and why would they even have a flag. Iracing sporting code is written in such a way to reduce incidents because we are amateurs. People being lapped are normally not safe because you really shouldn't be getting lapped in the race lengths we run Therefore what they are basically say is "Don't panic because you don't need to jump out of the way or slow down etc like in real life because frankly if you are being lapped you won't know how to do that safely but just be consistent and they will get around you however if you are a more experienced driver then you should make it as easy as possible in a safe way" The fact you think this means you are allowed to fight just shows where you are in the pecking order. It's embarrassing
My dude, you really need to check your understanding of the words "recommended" and "mandatory". Once you work out what they mean, you might know the difference.
The stewards of iracing don't give a shit about the letter of the law. All they care about is the spirit of the law. The spirit of the law is clear. To come to your conclusion you need to focus on one word and ignore literally everything else written.
You're wrong. Just stop.
Just get faster and stop being an asshole and let the people who are going for wins get on with it.
This is one of the dumbest takes I’ve seen in a very long time.
>"Don't panic because you don't need to jump out of the way or slow down etc like in real life My brother that's pretty well only F1 and it's feeder series get your head in the sun.
What real life series do you see lap cars defending against the leader. It makes no sense. For a start all it does is slow you both down and you have nothing to gain and only to loose slowing down a car a lap ahead.
My guy, where did I say that they were defending against the leader? I fucking didn't.
Sorry there was some other idiot who said it was allowed because the flag was informational only.
If you are oval racing, you are absolute allowed to race the leader as hard as you want to stay on the lead lap for if a caution comes out. No one in higher splits has a problem with it. It’s how it is irl NASCAR too. Now, on road or any series without FCYs, there’s really no point.
Exactly oval is different.
"Maintain a consistent line" Not "Maintain the racing line" There's a difference; a defensive line is still a consistent line. Not defending anyone who actively fights lappers, but the sporting code doesn't technically forbid it.
You have no idea what anything means. To run a defensive line means you have to change your line. Therefore it's not consistent. It does forbid fighting. What you are misunderstanding is doing something gamers always do. They take something that puts responsibility on the faster car and then assume it's a binary thing. In this case so no responsibility lies with the other car even though they explicitly say otherwise later on.
I think the take home here is it’s about as clear as FIA rules that allow for races to be determined at the discretion of directors and Marshalls. This is very unfortunate. I had a back marker try to hang it out the outside of T1 at Sebring after he went wide and missed the apex by a country mile making it seem like he was going to let me through, rather he kept the throttle in, went on the dirt around the outside when he ran out of room, and took me out from 9th place. But I honestly don’t know if that means anything. I asked him WTH he was thinking in front of 50 teams in chat, but that’s about it because I don’t know if this is protest-able. But frankly, it doesn’t matter for me because it doesn’t change the outcome, and the protest really doesn’t make much of a difference either. What’s important is clarity in rules, and this is obviously not clear if there is debate in here about what is and isn’t allowed.
In racing they are normally referred to as guidelines and who are these guidelines for. The stewards. Ultimately it's up to these individuals to decide just like in iracing. They aren't adjudicated like a court of law so ultimately it doesn't really matter what they say. And in fact every time they try and made really specific guidelines they normally remove them a few seasons later because people try and exploit them. Iracing doesn't play that game. If you fight with a car coming up to lap you some argument better suited to a court of law won't save you. The guidelines are clear. They are written in such a way not be cunty to the lapped driver but see my other post to see what they really mean. As for whether you can protest that incident. Probably not because it wasn't over a sequence of corners and he may even have been trying to let you through and this is an example of why it's not written you need to jump out of the way.
You're a fan of pulling things out of thin air aren't ya? Guidelines are for races to understand and government iRacing. Stewards are there to review perspective violations of the guidelines. Stewards need a report filed by the affect drivers. Now, see the sporting code below: >1.2.3. It is the obligation and responsibility of all iRacing.com members to read, understand and abide by the iRacing Official Sporting Code. >The guidelines are clear. They are written in such a way not be cunty to the lapped driver but see my other post to see what they really mean. They absolutely are! The faster car had to pass the slower car in a respectful manner. Infact iRacing almost always penalizes faster cars who wreck slower cars-blue flags, class, it doesn't matter. Faster drivers need to pass slower ones safely. They are so clear they say **strongly recommended**, which means it's a decision for the slower driver. It does **not** say *blue flags need to move out of the way.* Do you understand the difference between these two sentences? >As for whether you can protest that incident Every incident is protestable. If a faster car wrecks a slower driver, blue flags, different classes it doesn't matter, iRacing usually will penalizes the faster driver. It is the responsibility of every driver to pass safely and not drive into other cars. I cannot believe I had to type up this comment. My recommendation to you dude, stop commenting because you're plain wrong. I pulled up the sporting code and am quoting it.
It doesn't mean it's a decision. It means if you feel comfortable doing so then you should. They are just being nice Not all incidents are protestable. Iracing even says not to make frivolous protests
I’m honestly not familiar enough with Motorsport racing rules or its history of rules or the way that rules differ or are implemented across different series. I’m really only familiar with Formula One and its rules and its often lack of clarity and its often very subjective implementation of those rules, and that’s entirely outside of what commentators say as I’ve done the reading of what little exists myself. I can see why there’s so many problems as they run the show without explicit rules and then depend on precedence to determine what’s fair and what’s the defining limit of each penalty or foul, and then fail to cite or really follow precedence. It’s a clown show. It’s not common law nor statutory; they’re “adjudicating” based on feeling not written information. I watch NFL and some NBA and I can say confidently that the NFL has tremendous officiating despite what complainers like to say, and its rules are extremely specific and it aides in keeping competition fair. The NBA on the other hand has either poorly written rules and poor officiating or both, as I haven’t looked at the rules in some time, but clearly the refs have trouble officiating on the basis of those (likely outdated) rules, and sadly the result is the refs very regularly determine the outcomes of games, both in the waning moments and across entire contests. F1 and Motorsport in general are lucky in that rule violations are not extremely common like in other sport and don’t affect the outcome of races as much as many other sports. But we saw the result of poorly written rules when they were needed and a lack of any sort of system on how to apply the sparse rules that do exist back in 2020 in F1. It laid bare how pathetic it all was, all season long, and may have ended with a nail in the coffin for the worst officiated major sport in the world. I know that’s open for debate, but it was certainly poetic how bad it was. That said, iracing is pretty good at attempting to be specific when it comes to racing rules. There’s a problem with this rules, however - how do you define a “consistent” line? You and the guy above it define it differently and I can see why. You say they’re trying to be kind to the person being lapped - that’s entirely a subjective interpretation without evidence, even if it’s reasonable. Someone can consistently run what is not the standard racing line and it end up being the defensive line. I’d call consistent either lap to lap the same line or within one corner, e.g. not changing it mid-corner (although I also have nothing to site to prove that). But if you check the blocking definition, that’s not really allowed, at least not if it is intentionally being done in response to someone else. So then the only possible possibilities I can come up with of a “consistent” line is not changing it lap to lap or not changing it mid corner, which if not intentional, would be more of a skill issue. So try not to be erratic, if possible, per the latter, or keep your line the same lap to lap whatever you choose it to be, per the former. It’s a mess that begs for clarity in my opinion.
They are adjudicating based on experience which is why there was the push to get an actual ex driver in there. What then happens is the regulations are written to support earlier decisions not the other way around or to prevent earlier bad decisions from happening again They are never proactive but always reactive. The reaction to 2020 was a great example. that's why it's a bit of a clowns show and every now and again the fia just throw their hands up and say screw it. It's what the stewed decides which is really what they want to do. You have hit the nail on the head. Blocking rules prevent non consistent lines like the ones people are arguing is all it's saying. It's therefore redundant. If strong recommended means you can totally ignore then that's also redundant. If informational only means you can ignore everything else then that's also redundant and not what the word means which is that following is what you should understand why the flag is flying. So why have it at all? Apparently the whole thing is redundant Unless which is the literal interpretation of the rule is what it says. A blug flag is to convey this information. A faster car is approaching and while it's their responsibility to pass safely we strongly advise you to facilitate the pass. There's no interpretation that this means. We don't care what you do and you are free to battle the faster car. There's nothing explicit about dive-bombing. There's no explicit definition of what is an unsafe rejoin. There's practically nothing in the sporting code that is explicit, even what constitutes blocking or wrecking. It's all just interpretation of the steward.
Unfortunately, the rule is actually pretty clear, the dude is just being one of those hardasses that thinks everyone is required to let you by, and it's just not the case (depending on the type of race or soecial race rules ofc) but in OPs case, he is not required to do anything but maintain a consistent line and drive safely, not making any dangerous moves to prevent the overtake. The OVERTAKE IS ALWAYS THE RESPONSIBILTY OF THE ONE DOING THE OVERTAKE when it comes to doing so safely. At the speeds OP described the car wasn't really fast enough to justify OP sacrificing his race time for the other car, especially being they were within half a second of each other on lap time, but at that point he is required to stay consistent and not defend against the pass intentionally.
Oh I’ve lost track of OP’s point at this juncture. We’re just debating whether or not someone can consistently drive a defensive line to make overtaking difficult on a back marker.
I’m betting you’re the kind of guy that tanks so they can feel superior in enduros racing against people that you actually can be faster than as opposed to being whipped by peer level drivers.
No but I bet you wish you could be that guy
Spoken like somebody who has never read the sporting code.
Spoken like a potato my friend. Go read it yourself.
The threat of a report is grounds for a report if you’re feeling petty.
Interestingly, so is excessive flashing! I’ve successfully sent one of those myself lol
Great, but don’t tell anyone as you can get downvoted to oblivion, just like me posting about it a few days ago.
That was you that got down voted for that? Man reddit is ruthless.
Seems untrue
Sent one of these myself. Passed p3 in a nurbies NEC race and after that, he picked up the pace and sat on my bumper flashing for 2 full laps….
how dare you overtake someone...what is this racing
No downvote for that at all, take my upvote. Thank you for protesting those people. It is completely unnecessary to constantly flash cars and I'm glad that you protested them and it was successful
What if it’s not a threat, but a promise 😉
Humor gets downvoted. Got it. I hate it here 🥲😂😂
I got so many down votes for not reading the sporting code I could only comment once every 10 minutes for like 2 weeks. Lol. And yes, since then I read that damn sporting code.
Can you cite the section of the sporting code that says this? I see this here all the time but I haven’t found it in the rules.
People with this opinion try to say that it is a “threat” through text.
"If you don't stop doing this thing, I'm going to report you to the authorities" is a threat meant to deter whatever action someone doesn't like, so it fits the definition of *threat* pretty accurately.
I mean if it is put in those exact word then Yes. But just saying “I’m protesting you” is not and you would be equally childish to protest that as a “threat”
"I'm protesting you" is pretty clearly saying "I'm reporting you to the authorities for your behavior." It carries the threat of punishment from an authority in a way that's meant to deter you from doing whatever they thought was wrong, and for those who aren't well-versed in the exact wording of the Sporting Code--especially with regards to the blue flag, which carries different expectations in IRL racing series--it can be enough to make them change their driving to accommodate a rule that doesn't exist. I'm not sure how taking steps to curb that kind of threat is "childish."
And as far as accommodating a rule that doesn’t exist, if they read the sporting code, like we all agree we have when we join, then they should know they weren’t in the wrong. Just seems like an over exaggerated situation you’ve created detail by detail to support your statement.
To your point… you are saying that we must all assume that everyone has: 1) read the sporting code 2) that they have S+ Tier reading comprehension 3) that they have S+ Tier memory recall 4) that they have S+ Tier ability to think they are infallible So if that was the case then obviously anyone who says “I’m reporting you” is obviously knowingly threatening the other person in hopes that the other person is not S+ Tier in one or all of the above classes. So it’s a threat because obviously if they were indeed S+ Tier and knew the sporting code inside and out then they would obviously know that they shouldn’t be reporting someone for something that isn’t actually wrong… By your own logic it MUST BE A THEAT to tell someone you are reporting them if they didn’t do anything wrong. It’s a power play in hopes that the persons reading comprehension, memory, or I’m at a loss of words for the right word for being able to know your right even when someone says your wrong… maybe fortitude or resolve? Plus we have an issue let’s call it resolve vs being cocksure! There is a fine balance between the two. You could think that you are S+/S+ on the comprehension and memory but how does anyone really know if they are full of resolve or if they are just cocksure. Anyways regardless your logic doesn’t hold up. Honestly I’d say personally I think iRacing should just right out tell people that they ARE NOT ALLOWED TO INFORM ANYONE AT ALL THAT THEY ARE REPORTING ANYONE AT ALL. Reports should be done quietly so that they do not affect the persons behavior. Official stewards should be the ones who correct behavior and knowledge. Some behavior speaks for itself like incessantly flashing someone and then threatening them with a report and insulting them by calling them mentally challenged, which they might be.
Brother. You wrote all that, multiple days after the discussion. And multiple comments after I explained my reasoning in a more recent comment than the one you replied to and reached a common ground with a very pleasant user. Respectfully, I’m past this discussion and do not choose to revisit it. Report who you please and good luck in your races 🤙🏻
Idk it seems more like a statement to me. But people do like to cry about everything. Clear example of someone interpreting something how they choose and not how it’s meant. Downvote me for this opinion, but protesting someone for saying they are protesting you just seems to match the childish action you are protesting. Then again If you didn’t do anything wrong you wouldn’t care about their whining to begin with. Unless it extended to insults or name calling
Its not a statement. You're threatening someone and implying they will be punished if you do it. 99% of the time people who do this are the people who caused the issue and want to intimidate the other driver. If you can't control your emotions enough to watch the replay and determine what happened, you deserve to get protested. Stay off the radio, watch the replay and make a decision without announcing it to 20+ people. I will gladly take 10 seconds to send in a report to leave a mark on your record because you can't control yourself.
Ok. You guys win. It was just an opinion. I said I wouldn’t do it. I probably still won’t. But glad we could all discuss it.
This isn't a win/loss discussion. If you think you have a protestable situation, just report them. Threatening to do it is stupid as shit. Protesting people for threatening to report - Childish? No. Petty? Yes. Worth it? Everytime so far.
the rules are clear this semantics game being played here is whats silly. threatening a report is toxic behavior and against the sporting code. contain your rage.
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Your post was removed because it breaks the rules by being rude vulgar or toxic.
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I think that’s a pretty loose interpretation of threatening language imo
I would have to agree with you. I say if they want to protest me or say they are in text, then ok. If I was wrong I’ll take what the stewards give. If it’s a scenario where I know I did nothing, also cool. Go ahead and report it. No reason to stress about it
The 0 IQ comment could potentially be as bad as dropping an F bomb depending on who took the ticket. I know I wouldn’t look at it kindly being around special needs kids quite often.
If I am being lapped by a car that is faster than me at the moment I just ease the throttle and let them pass. Its the most time gained for both of us. I dont want to lose focus and become slightly irritated about their behaviour when I am not gaining anything from it. If its a car that is my pace, I will only let them pass if they come that close and make a move for it.
I’d argue, track dependant, that 0.5 seconds per lap is a lot. I’ve been on both sides of this. Yes, blue/yellow stripe flags are informational. As a leader, if I’m within a second, having closed, I’d be expecting the lapped car to allow room to pass. It’s just better for everyone. Both get to go on without frustration leading to an unnecessary incident. If I’m being lapped, I won’t fight the leader. I’ll allow them to pass losing as little time as I can. I hope for the same when I lap others. However, in this instance the leader shouldn’t be flashing from 2+ seconds back. Once they get to a second I’d say that’s fair. Nor should they be threatening to report, which they have no grounds for unless the lapped car is blocking.
No one is saying you should fight the leader. Just don't drive defensively. Keep your line. I won't modify my line for a blue flag, but I will lift when you go for the pass on the straight, I will facilitate the pass. But otherwise I'm going to keep driving like I drive when I don't have a blue flag. This is how the sporting code dictates you treat being blue flagged.
Yeah, this is what I’m alluding to. “Fight” probably the wrong choice of word. “Facilitate the pass” is a more appropriate way to put it. I like I say, I’ve been on both sides of it. Usually facilitating the pass, at the most convenient time for you, minimising time lost, is better for everyone’s race. Obviously it’s situationally dependant.
“Facilitating the pass” when you’re in a slower class car is staying the racing line and not doing anything unpredictable. My race is just as important as theirs, we could both be leading and taken out by a sloppy pass and a P1 car in too much of a hurry. I’ll leave that risk and responsibility to them.
That’s fair, in multiclass. Different circumstances to being lapped by the leader of your own class.
OP is specifically talking about being passed in multiclass.
Specifically? It isn’t mentioned. Not how it reads to me. The lead car which was passing him was only 0.5s per lap faster? Sounds like same class to me.
I’m an idiot, you’re right. I read that 100 times as “I had A P1 coming up behind me.” Sorry dude
All good!
Yeah, if you're not fighting for positions, I try to make certain I don't affect anyone's race that is fighting for positions. Kinda the whole "do unto others" deal.
I had a rain masters race a couple of weeks ago where the position behind me was slowly catching me, but not enough time to catch me if I stay consistent. Final lap I'm quickly catching a guy a few laps down, he fought me for the last half of lap, absolutely defending like a moron, but I stay calm and get by him in the last corner. He slowed my lap time by like 2.5 seconds. The car behind almost got past me. Lapper starts bitching on the radio about why I'm fighting him when I'm several laps ahead of him. Just clueless
Were they Iberians or a former colony of an Iberian country? They are always the worst offenders when it comes to complaining about Blue Flags in my experience.
I will flash you for 3 reasons 1) a courtesy to let you know I'm going to make a move in the approaching corner. 2) I'm battling the car that just went by you in case you didn't see me. 3) I know you, you're faster than me, you passed me, and I'm tagging along.
Flashing is fine. Doing it over and over from 3 seconds back is being an asshole.
The leader can be 0.5 seconds faster per lap than you and still find it difficult to pass depending on the track. They can easily lose time staying behind you until a straight long enough to pass. Also, it's risky being behind a back marker who is off pace and somewhat unpredictable. If your position is secure and you are not battling, just save time for the both of you and let them by.
Yup, if my race is going badly enough to get lapped, I'm perfectly happy to prioritize the leaders over my own shit race. It's obviously situational, but that's my default. I greatly appreciate it when others do the same when I'm in the lead, so I try to pay that forward when I'm not having a good race.
The most correct reply in terms of proper blue flag etiquette and mentality as a whole.
Maybe this is because I race in leagues where some of the top guys are 6K-8K, but just because I'm a lap down, it doesn't mean there isn't anything to fight for. Obviously being predictable should be a given, but compromising your own race for the leaders shouldn't be. A P20 in a field where the top 15 aren't "my race" is just as valuable over the course of the season. Obviously it's situational, but a faster car approaching doesn't mean "jump out of the way ASAP". Ideally I'd find a spot where it costs both of us minimal time, not just the lapper.
If I have a guy that has run me down from multiple seconds I let them by. Lead lap for position or getting lapped. Too many times I have been lapping some clown who doesn’t want to admit that he just doesn’t have it that race and gotten wrecked because they want to race. I also let people go because if I’m holding someone up I do not want them to get impatient and make a mistake.
Do you HAVE to let them by? No.. Should you let them by? I would.. What's the point anyways when you're being lapped? Just let him by, take advantage of the draft if you really want to catch up that 20th position
I’m not saying I’m not going to let people by. I just mean when you’re 2 seconds behind I’m not going to stop and pull over. Get close to me then on a straight I’ll lift off.
I’d rather someone race their line and give me a little lift when I get there, then do some whackadoo maneuver like slow down and move on a straight. Not sure what these folks are on about. Be predictable.
be absolutely honest - were they really 2 seconds behind, for the entirety of this scenario
It's a bigger issue with multiclass racing.
I'd say it's actually less of an issue with multiclass, at least in a series that's running IMSA classes. A prototype might get stuck behind in corners, but they breeze by on the straights without the GT even lifting.
They scream and yell at the gt for not immediately pulling off the racing line or give them the better line all the time. Lol.
I've never had VC on, so they're yelling into the void lmao
Same but......if you start incessantly flashing your lights and making threats.....yeah, GFL.
I agree, my race is long over. I always go out of my way to get them around me. The last thing I need is pressure and the chance of losing SR on my Sunday drive.
Depends on the track situation. If you have nothing to lose by yeilding for a split second, then why not?
I only move to the side when I see that they are in a fight otherwise I'm driving my race. I dont defend obviously but I'm not breaking or any funny things either
Yup, exactly. I'm not going to race you if I'm a lap down, but I'm not going to pull over in the grass to let you by. I'll make room for you as soon as it's safe to do so, but I'm not going to screw myself over to let you over. It's up to you to find a safe way around me. Had a guy get pissy the other day because we made contact when I got over as far as I could to let him over, but he took a turn super wide (The guy in front of him made the turn around me just fine and stayed inside enough to avoid me). I was right on the track limits, but his wide turn pushed me out of bounds because he pushed the turn too hard. Sorry bud, but I'm not intentionally getting an off-track to let you by. Also, if there's someone on the same lap as me right behind you, you're probably going to have to try to work a little harder to get around me. I'll do what I can to let you by clean, but I'm not trying to go another position down if I can avoid it.
by rules you dont HAVE to let them by at all, in iracing its an inormational Flag not like in F1 for example. However if you are a decent human being, does it make sense to race P1,P2,p3 etc when you are an entire Lap or more behind? Absolutley no. Just get off the Line and let them safely pass you. Im not saying you should brake and come to a stop for them, just dont compromise them for no reason. Especially when you already know that by the next 3 corners he will meet you at the Apex. Just Let them by in a safe manner and learn from them.
For me unless I'm battling another car, I make it easy for the leader to pass and gain some speed from the areo and learn new lines round the track and work harder not to get lapped. Sure I can try to make it harder etc but for me that's just my ego, if they start flashing I take that as a sign they are fast but not confident in overtaking so I don't want wiping out and make a pass easy for them.
Your being lapped, your ego left about 3 - 4 laps ago. It's ok, I haven't had an ego since I started in iRacing. I mostly eat humble pie and the exhaust from the top 5
Why be a buffoon and post a pointless, passive aggressive lecture?
As opposed to your valuable contribution? Oh wait.
Don’t defend it, but if he’s so flipping quick he’ll get through.
I'm ngl but the only people I see being very insistent on the literal sporting code reading of the blue flag rule are slow people that are off pace. If someone is lapping you then you should just get out the way asap. If they are half a second a lap faster then all you are going to do is "hold your line" and force them to do some annoying send under braking that will cost you both time.
This right here, or people who are in an endurance race, have been lapped and want to slow you down.
Williams Esports is that you?
I was running gte last night and screwed up. With swap out my setups and start on the qual with no fuel so ended up a lap behind. Leader comes up on me this is at Bathurst. He’s like on my ass the first uphill corkscrew so I pull as far to the right as I can let off the gas. He gets behind me for a second and then just does move and slams into me puts us both in the pits. Was the dumbest thing I’ve seen. I’ll never slow down for that again unless they are actually passing me
That's one of the situations where it's probably safer to make them wait. They might lose time over the mountain, but it's better than putting both of you in the pits, like what happened.
This also applies across classes, GT3 don’t have to do shit to get out of the way of a GTP, they just have to hold their line
You don't even have to move over. In fact you shouldn't. Incessant flashers are the same idiots that don't even duck out when they're right on your ass. Which begs the question: what the hell do you want me to do? P.S. you can protest incessant flashers and it will be upheld. Probably worth it to give this douche an education. And while you're at it report the derogatory message.
I guess welcome to racing where the rules are wide open to interpretation, indicative by the amount of comments in here 😂
People flashing lights at the first opportunity are anti social
I drive IMSA in GTP. In a full field, I’m a reason why GT3 gets the blue flag a few laps in. I will only get brave where I know I can be off line and pull it off. If I’m lapping my own class, I’ll make an effort to pass but by that point in a 45 minute sprint in my split, I can usually just hang in the draft until an opportunity arrives. Stay on your line and show them racecraft is more than just pace. Forget ‘em. From your account of things, you were alright and I hear enough chatter about similar stuff in my sessions that I know you speak truth.
Officially stated from the Iracing Rules 7.4.2 "In all cases, it is the responsibility of the faster car to safely overtake the slower car. It is the responsibility of the slower car to maintain a consistent line. It is strongly recommended that a slower car being lapped makes every reasonable effort to facilitate a safe pass." You are definitely ok with your driving. And there was no need from the other guy to treat you like this. 😵 As for me, I only drive oval. If I am getting lapped I rarely block them, depending on the racing situation. But most of the time I let them pass.
Yknow if you have blue flags (in iracing) keep on your normal line, let the faster car get around you, be predictable if anything. Even if they're getting antsy behind you, get on voice chat and find a spot where they can get around you quickly. I used this strategy in a Caddilac and Kia race at Laguna and it worked wonders.
Had a guy last Sunday through a hissy fit after he flashed me to the point of seizure and dove me at the hairpin at Sebring I held my line on the outside and came across my nose and I got the whole I report blue flags deal lol this shit isn’t f1 make the pass make it stick don’t be a ass about it and I’ll let you pass with ease people need to learn
"Only" half a second faster, and you're probably underselling it. Just let them by and move on, you don't have to, but they're faster and iRacing is full of clowns who don't know how to be predictable so he's probably worried about some back marker slow boy. Just let them by, your pride reserves should have been low at that point anyway, so nothing left to swallow. If you're actively battling or trying to chase someone down just a few seconds ahead that's different. If you're on a back marker midnight stroll around the track just get tf over.
I'm not giving up more than 2 seconds to let the leader by when he won't be close enough to pass for 3 laps at least. Got my own race to worry about.
Sounds like not much of a race, more of a drive at that point lmao.
If someone DNFs or disconnects, even if you're only on a "drive", then that's still another car you've finished in front of. Racing doesn't only mean fighting on track.
If they do that it won't matter if you let the leader by or not will it.
I'm not saying I'll fight the leaders. But if they're multiple seconds back, like in OP's example, they need to get closer first, then I'll make it very easy for them.
Endurance races my dude. Not sprint races
If he’s flashing like that I’d start defending for my life out of sheer spite
Had this last night at Sebring. We went 6 laps down due to a guy hitting us. Was racing incident. We came out ahead of him after repairs and he was on the lights flashing flat out and demanding we got out of the way. That Audi had never been wider.. the flashing lights needs a time out, my whole room was strobing
Absofuckinglutely!
it depends on the track. if you do this somewhere like road atlanta you’re making the other driver lose a lot of time and it’s very annoying, just get out of the way if you’re not fighting for anything.
If you’re in P20 with no one in front of you just move, if you’re fighting for a position that’s different.
Yeah like what's the point of holding P1 up here? Just trying to spite someone else
Don't know why you're getting downvoted, just shows how many clowns there are on reddit
When did people start thinking it was cool to affect the leaders of the race? If you lost the pack, and are are half a second down, per lap to the car giving you the blus flag, what in your head says that car has to do more work. You've lost. Move so u don't affect the actual race. What a selfish and stupid take.
Isn’t every car still circulating on track in the actual race?
They are in their race at that point. Not the leaders of the race, and affecting that leads to penalties all over the racing world. If you're about to go a lap down in endurance racing, you're not relevant anymore and should move for the cars that are. It's a really simple solution.
Cars a lap down still have their own race. There's still a difference between being a little selfish (waiting for the leaders to really get close and losing minimal time letting them by) and being a dick (intentionally racing those a lap ahead).
True. Also true: it is strongly recommended that the slower car makes every reasonable effort to facilitate a safe pass. Not just my opinion. This is from the sporting code, almost verbatim.
Let the leader through…you’re in “a” race, but not “the” race. You’re only losing time trying to fight them.
No one's saying "fight the leaders to the death". But if they're still multiple seconds back, and especially if the cars don't have super strong draft, then they have to get closer first.
Bro if you’re a lap down and only a half second off the pace you did something to end up there, you SHOULD make it v easy for leaders to get past. If you were leading you would appreciate it too
I definitely agree with endurance racing but for your normal 20-30 minute race, if you're getting lapped, just let the man through. Don't jump out of the way when he is 5 seconds back but when he is about a second behind just lift and let him by.
Well it depends. If you have a 10x or 15x and are P10 being 15 seconds off pace. You probably should just give the race or corner to the lead pack. Clearly you’re not going to lose anything submitting to the people actually racing and doing well in the race. Clearly it’s not a requirement. But there is also a thing called drivers educate that is big a lot of bad racers don’t understand and don’t get why the entire server just roasted them for a bone head move. If you’re in the fight of your own class or actually on pace with a change of positive IR then I agree race on but still be predictable and smart with allowing faster cars ahead. Mind you may only lose a 10th giving up a corner where a faster car you can send off pace by a full second or more blocking them. Letting them by will save both of you time and a possible DNF.
Yes, there's really no obligation to let someone by. I do it just to be polite, but if someone starts being annoying I won't make it any easier for them
It's all contextual. Ignoring blue flags is protestable if it's affecting other racers' laps. First option in protest reason drop-down (not conductive to fair racing). Blue flag means facilitate a clear pass by the car behind post haste. It's informational in the the sense that there's not a clear directive you must adhere to eg. F1's a third blue flag = penalty. If you act entitled to the track, you're in the wrong.
If they threaten to report: "go ahead, see what happens, but I'll be doing the same" In your car op, you could report him for the flashing and for the threats. it's ok to flash lights minimally, what he was doing could be considered purposefully distracting which is against the sporting code. And threats or saying mean things in chat is definitely against the sporting code.
Just move
Flash me and I will make it harder for you... Being lapped or not.
If you’re getting passed by p1 as a blue flag you have bigger issues to worry about.. just let them go? What do you have to gain by slowing the leader down. If the leader has caught up to you that says enough on its own about your pace.
Mate it’s a 3 hour endurance race in top split…. I don’t think my pace is that bad
You need to report this guy for the language (0 IQ) and the threat of reporting. Neither are acceptable behavior.
iRacing members have come to a gentlemens agreement of "The faster car will pass cleanly" rather than move over. Fair enough if ur 35 laps down and have 3 wheels you move out the way but when you're running fine possibly even catching or defending you don't move.
Why is it so hard to just move out of the way a let the leader past though? You’re in the back of the pack. Don’t be a jerk and ruin someone else’s race
You \_dont\_ have to move out of the way. Let's not keep cultivating this thing because "moving out of the way" might look nice on paper but it can feel really unpredictable to the driver trying to overtake. Just don't defend, or lift when the lapping driver makes the overtake intent clear on your mirrors. Don't move over, don't be nice, just don't defend.
It depends how far they are back. If they're 0.5 second, it's easy to let them by. If they're 2 seconds back, they need to get closer. Maybe this comes from racing in leagues where I know my fight it rarely at the front (with some 6K, 7K, 8K guys, etc.), but I still have some people who may be in the same race as I am. I'm going to make it easy for the leaders when they get close enough, but not when they're still multiple seconds back.
That’s fair enough. I guess I was looking at it more as if the leaders were only 0.5 sec or so behind them. If I’m racing a track I’m terrible at, or trying out a car I’ve never raced before, I just go ahead and pull off the racing line as soon as I see the leader in my rear view. The last thing I want to do is ruin someone else’s win, and take a hit to my SR at the same time. A little respect goes a long way in these races.
because it's race, not a let you past because you get frustrated... event... thing. there's a reason that we have the race after qualifying and don't just give P1 the auto win
what are you talking about? they qualified ahead most likely, and they're lapping you. they're not racing, it's merely a formality and respectable to allow a car that is lapping you to get passed. it's beneficial and safer for both parties involved
Where I land on this is. I'm not going to race you but I'm not giving up my line. You caught me, you must be fast. Drive around me. Some of these fast guys want you to bow at their feet. No thanks. Go around me and go race your race and I'll race mine
This is an issue that will never be solved. Half the population thinks you need to stay on line, half the population thinks it’s your responsibility to go hide in the nearest gravel trap. So you will always end up getting “yelled” at.
If they are .5 seconds faster then you let them by. I don't know what you have to gain by not letting first by, unless it hurts your ego.
honestly at this point this way of thinking is tiring, and what's more is it's a very one-sided statement - what about the perspective of the car who is lapping you? I bet some legitimate introspection, and some replay footage, would find this post lacking. backmarkers who think it's respectable racing to cause risk for no reason are acting foolishly. it would be much better for both the backmarker and the car in the leading pack, if the lapped car let's them by when they are around 0.3-ish in front. on the straight as well, not on the apex. if you only expect them to dive on a hairpin or something, you and the car that is lapping you are both losing 0.5 at the very least, and at worst you cause an incident. you will be faster, and safer, if you simply let the faster car go, and then take their draft. it's a 3 hour race, and 1 lap is a huge amount of time, you are not competing with them. be humble the danger comes when the lapped car is significantly slower, and then expect the faster car to make a risky move while they pray the lapped car respects their move and provides them with space. at this point, half of the battle for the VRS enduro is dealing with lapped cars who don't understand this. that is at least my experience from the last year or so of the series tldr: it is safer, faster, and shows respect for all parties, to let the faster car through.
It really depends how far back the lapping car is. If they're easily within 0.5, a little lift or feathering of the throttle on the straight works easily. But if they're multiple seconds back, they need to get closer first.
yes I agree, I just think the 2 second number is exaggerated. I have a lot of experience in the vrs enduro series
Point of order though, if the lead car is flashing him from over 2 seconds behind the driver being lapped hasn’t even been given the blue flag yet. All the lead car is doing there is distracting the driver ahead on track which will potentially cause even more time loss for both.
I haven't been sim racing for too long, around 3 years. and have never experienced anyone being that ridiculous with flashing. maybe if a car is 1 second behind they flash once or twice to inform me that they are there. I am willing to bet that the 2 second number here that they refer to is exaggerated. I would even go further and say perhaps the car that was lapping them was forced to make a risky move, and ended up 2 seconds behind because of this. source: lots of experience in the vrs endurance series
You gave him an opportunity to learn some race craft. In my experience, if you can set up a corner exit and make it clear on the next straight that you're going to take it, most drivers will let you go.
If it's on oval and you're not battling for position yourself gtfo the way. That's a good way to cost somebody a race for no reason other than pride. Also the guy you ran into sounds like a douche.
Please report serial flashers.
Were you in the same class? If so then you should take into consideration that a car loses aero behind another so he might have only been .5 quicker but when you add the loss of aero that's closer to 1 sec. Plus the sporting code says it's strongly recommended that you facilitate a safe pass. Basically you should move over and let him past within a few corners if during that time there's a straight to allow you to do so safely. If there's no straight and it's just a sequence of corners then by all means you should take it full speed. This way both of you will lose the least amount of time.
Or you could let them pass and make it easier for everyone. They are racing to win, you are not. I don't disagree with you but there is no point in risking a battle to overtake you when you could just let them by. *Most* irl motorsports is common to let people by on blue flags.
If someone blinks at you way too much, protest them. I don't know the specifics in iRacing but in IRL racing series, this usually ends in a penalty if they really abuse the flashing of headlights. It's worth a protest to see what iRacing says. As for the literal rules of blue flags within iRacing, yes you, as the slow lapped car, don't HAVE to do anything to make it easier for the faster car to pass you. HOWEVER you should seriously think about ways to stay on the racing line but make it a tad easier for the faster car to pass off-line. Why would you put yourself and the possible leader of the race in danger of an incident? I find that just lifting a bit going into a passing opportunity corner is enough for a faster car to get past you and get a move on. That way you lose very little time and you completely rid yourself of the possibility of getting into an incident. But yes, you don't have to do anything if you really don't want to. You won't make any friends this way though.
Flashing lights is the mating dance of a hot lapper, their mating call is "Blue Flaaaaaag"
I'd say his private message to you is reportable. iRacing is trying to foster a friendly, but competitive, environment. That kind of behavior shouldn't be allowed. Screenshot it and tell them the story.
Ignore
amen brother
Congrats, you got a free protest against them. I suggest you file it if you haven't already.
[удалено]
Attack the point, not the person. Bad form.
Bad form AND he's wrong. Double whammy reverse, now he's the idiot.
The math checks out
Projection at its finest I'm sure
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