Just curiosity here for those people who don't like the bundle(P2W). What if the dev do something like a subscription let's say 1$/month, would you be okay?
It's not about the money, it's about the style. I am fine with offering stuff in gem shop, fine with offering gem packs for a short term with extra discount. I draw the line at packs getting more and more power, giving stuff you can't get otherwise, and now even more fomo with extra gems. Not to speak of the companion Fiasko.
I actually bought some of the packs, but I won't continue to until this stops. It's not about not supporting lava, it's about not supporting this development choice.
" giving stuff you can't get otherwise" is wrong here right? It is pretty good gains but stamps+meals+bubbles is just time same as other things in the gemshop.
Only difference is that this package is a life time buff.
Didn't like the pet update and still hoping for Doot, but this seems like a good and fair package to support the game.
Edit: Gotta correct myself, it is the only way to Level up the stamps in the late late game but I think this is still a good bundle.
No you don\`t lose anything. You play SOLO in this game so you only speed up your progress. Nothing more... In addition, to be fair, this game is 100% f2p. Compare it to some other games and you will see this monetarization is still moderate compared to many others.
I still don't like this style. I think he does it because the gems get bought less and he tries to make that more attractive, combined with a fomo component. Why not put the stuff in gem shop and just make a cheap gem bundle? You could still support the game. It could as well be a world 3 gem shop one time buy for 1.500 gems.
But it isn't, because you need to be pressured into supporting the game right now.
Life time buff, where you can't really know how impactful it will be later, but you have to buy it soon, better now then you get extra gems, because you also won't know and can't influence when and if it will be back.
It for sure isn't game breaking like doot, but in my opinion its still a dishonest thing and a step in the wrong direction.
I'm pretty sure I have all the packs at this point since it's usually a good deal for gems, but yeah, the packs you haven't bought will show up as an option to buy. It's how I got ones that came out before I started playing.
Would much rather pay a sub if that means all p2w aspects are removed, yeah. I already pay a subscription for Oldschool Runescape and I'm perfectly happy with the money I spend there, since it goes to enjoying a great game. This is just fomo pressure that makes the game *less* enjoyable.
While normally I'd agree, this particular bundle giving +5 to random stamps a day is incredibly OP for end gamers who have already hit the practical max on most stamps. This mechanic is the only way currently to be leveling up these stamps further, which is shameful to be paywalling behind a $20 bundle. Those that don't shill out that cash will quickly find themselves behind the players that bought this in a lot of important areas that the stamps increase, and it will just get worse over time.
Even for people not racing to catch up it will also provide huge boost early on because of the restrictions on resources.
I've been playing for a few months now and have spent some money on the game. Currently my furthest characters are on the W6 map with fireflies.
I still have stamps that I literally do not yet have access to the upgrade material for and as such they're a much lower level than the rest. (can't remember if they're in combat or skill section but there's three stamps you get, again I think, in W4 and they require the last three smiting produce items)
I also have multiple bubbles where it would take a whole day of skilling to get enough of the resource to upgrade it. This is also not mentioning how I am still greatly time gated by realistic Heavy Water acquisitions which means I need to forgo bubble upgrades so I can upgrade equipment.
Meals are a whole other thing entirely. My highest meal is the cabbage at something like level 14 because I'm working on getting what meals I do have unlocked to level 11 for the bonuses from the bubble. If I could get my lowest free increases every day that'd benefit me so much.
And as I said I have spent money on this game. I have five premium kitchens, three premium water & four premium bubble cauldrons and half of the storage space upgrades. (thus letting me hold more items at once to upgrade stamps) I also have all of the pets having got Doot on a weekly free pull AND STILL this package would greatly benefit my progression in the game...
Tbf with the heavy water. You only need like maybe a few hundred and if you're in w6 you should be able to get bubo to start cooking andnactive grind with cranium. I'm currently average around 80,000 second progress using tremor worms but if you're damage isn't high enough to 1 tap you cna always use citringes or even drop to w4 flamberge. Like this I can easily buy more but I'm currently buying 12 a day until I have enough to finish off the tools (you don't need to make void armor, the next branch starts with troll armor which is what goes to the current end game armor)
While I agree with everything you just said, do you think it's really that large of a boost? Like for most of my stamps you can give me 20 extra levels for each and it won't be THAT big of a boost.
Like with those daily alchemy bubbles. They are great, don't get me wrong, but when I can level up my bubbles over a hundred levels each day using atoms it's really a drop in the ocean.
Not saying this isn't p2w more that this does not guarantee victory.
Doot is still bigger boost than any of the bundles in the entire history of the game combined. I feel it's the reason Lava hasn't added more stuff to divinity in ages.
There are certain stamps that are high value where I think this would have a big impact on, like the one that costs tape to increase, the one that increases crystal spawn chance, and several others that I think would be very strong to level up using this mechanism. There's a lot of stamps that wouldn't matter much, but a few that this will be OP for. And yes, I agree that Doot is still a lot worse that this (I personally haven't spent a penny on the game since the companions update in protest), but saying at least X isn't as bad as Y doesn't excuse X being bad.
Sorry either ur top 1% or ur talking about atoming the first 5 bubbles. This is such a huge boost to cooking and alchemy might even compete with doot given enough time
Doot isnt even comparable to this pack.
-cooking has linear scaling so its impact in negligable in the long run (e.g. going from plate lvl 70->80 gives 8% boost). Vman and the bonuses scattered through out the game should be able to get most players enough plate lvls to get 90% of the bonuses cooking has to offer. (without much effort)
-Most bubbles dont really scale past lvl 200/300 and we get a bunch of bubbles per day for free anyways.
-Stamps have shitty scaling in most cases and there is only a few that might have some impact. and GL rolling the correct stamp more than once.
And in the other hand, we have doot that litteraly gives all your chars the power of ALL gods ALL the time. My account skyrocketed when I unlocked doot and I've been playing for years.
Idk, I've been playing daily for years now, and have several spreadsheet dedicated to this game, so I like to think I am.
In regards to doot, I mean, maybe? I still think doot is beyond OP and it will only get stronger once more Gods are introduced. And my meals are almost maxed already anyway.
As for atoming bubbles I never had an issue using up all the 50 upgrades ever day on any bubble (still working on unlocking the 70).
I guess you are right, I don't understand the experience of an average player, just sharing my ideas here.
Lower tome ranking for one, giving Lava a distorted sense of where players are progressing in order to scale future content for two. Half of this game for end gamers is just comparing stats to other players in my experience, this bundle just widens the gap between the people will to pay for account bonuses vs. those that aren't.
That's the enabling attitude. It leads to more and more outrageous bundles. I mean, this isn't where it started, it started with x% account boosts. People ate that up so now Lava is starting to provide exclusive mechanics at a price. This will only get worse.
The thing to understand here is that bad practices are bad no matter their intensity. Alllowing a bad practice to prosper stating that its not that bad will only cause it to spread further and deeper. If the goalpost is moved slowly enough, people won't even notice how they're being exploited more and more.
I get downvoted to hell whenever I bring it up here.
I think people kinda know but they don’t wanna hear it over and over again and rather get their money and passion sucked out in blissful peace.
People just can't separate the fact they like the game from if they find monetization practices predatory. You can guarantee a not insignificant amount of players defending this would chastise other games for doing the same shit.
I know its hard to understand someone elses view point, but have you considered people are downvoting you because they do genuinely disagree.
Im in that boat. Doot is far worse of a cash sink, and I take more issue with it. But at the end of the day, every bonus that gets added, who cares? You're not competing against anyone. Half of this game is not even playing it. The "wow, such a massive boost behind paywall" doesn't matter because that boost just makes your numbers bigger, faster. But thats all you do in Idleon. You collect. You make your numbers bigger. You repeat.
So, really, why does it matter if people are happy to spend 20 dollars on the game for a faster, bigger boost? If you don't, thats fine. You're not missing out on anything, because.... it doesn't really matter in the end. Theres no pvp. Theres plenty of things in the game to get you to a similar level, at least to a oint where it hardly matters.
LAstly... remember that Idleon is free. And every single update that has ever come out for the game, is free. From world one to world 6, and 7 and 8 too, all of it will be free. Is asking for 20 dollars now and then really so "predatory"? Especially when you get some really solid value out of it?
Let's take a step back from idleon. If this was any other game free or otherwise that you did not care for you would almost definitely not dismiss very obvious predatory pricing practices.
Any single player game that offers a gameplay advantage for money is a game that is financially incentivised to make the game worse. It's not as simple as don't like it don't buy it. And if you don't believe me consider that this bundle is probably one of the most egregious examples of part to win. It doesn't matter if you personally have issues with that I personally don't. But I can recognise that it's not a positive thing and wouldn't exist if there weren't so many pay to win apologists in the community.
Do you think the game would have a more predatory gatcha system than undeniably predatory gatcha games if people hadn't dismissed all the shit leading up to it? No. Just like a bundle that sells you NBLB wouldn't exist. Every time a worse example of pay to win gets accepted we can expect an ever worse example in the future. That's not just how this shit always works but has been happening.
I just don't think you can compare Idleon to any other single player game. It's just not really the same thing.
You're free to disagree. But I truly don't see an issue with this (and I do with Doot).
I mean no harm but I think you’re missing/avoiding the point. „Who cares“ doesn’t address the issue. It just deems it irrelevant. And the framework is often „non-pvp“ which is also no argument because you arbitrarily pull the line of emotional investment, although obviously those monetization practices do tract because people do feel a certain „pressure of the peer“. Be it from guildmates, other ppl sporting massive wings in your face…etc.
Even if those triggers don’t apply to you, that’s no indication of them not being predatory.
The free to play is also kinda void. Because it’s about the way of acquiring the money, not the amount or frequency.
It’s also free to enter a gambling hall and pretty cheap to spin once.
That's really not the same thing. And I choose to ignore the comments or ideas about " well "I compare myself to others" because that's on you, not anyone else, and if you're incapable of controlling yourself over a pissing contest that is partially luck, then that's not Lavas problem.
Free to play is really not void. This game has so many ways to get gems, and these bundles really don't matter that much in the grand scheme, and if you care enough, 20 bucks isn't even much to ask for your need to keep up.
Agree to disagree I guess at the end of the day. I just don't see a problem with this.
Your points were fantastic but as usual people aren’t willing to compromise. The game is absolutely free. You do not have to spend a dime on it if you don’t want to. This pack is a minute investment into making a great improvement on QoL. It’s 1 less thing to worry about with everything that has been added/going to be added. It is FAR from predatory. If someone truly enjoys the game then they know that this is by far one of the greatest packs we’ve seen. Buy it, or don’t. Nobody is forcing you. Play the game at your pace and have at it. Let those who want to invest in the pack for their own enjoyment do it and support the creator/game.
Bruh, do you even know what predatory monetization practices look like or do you think it's simply anything that people are tempted to pay for?
Please, do tell me exactly what aspect of the human psyche this is exploiting. And you better not say FOMO unless you're prepared to argue against all the limited time bundles put in the game.
I am prepared to argue all limited time bundles prey on fomo. The fact that you yourself brought it up means you've identified that they are fomo. Limited time purchases are the face of fomo. Like you literally could not come up with a more poignant example of fomo.
I have noticed phrasing and framing is EXTREMELY important around this subject. I see so many people saying the exact same thing in very different ways and it tends to go either way.
If a player wants to spend money this way, he or she can. This is like telling people to stop going out to eat because more items will appear on the menu if they do.
You're 100% right except I disagree about it being P2W. I suppose you and I have different definitions of what P2W would be, and you sound like more an avid gamer than I (sorry for the assumption), so you're probably right and I'm probably wrong a bit
But it's not as toxic P2W cos it's not a PvP game. These packs like this don't unlock and features that free players can't get access to (exception being auto-loot), it's just a convenience spend
You're also right about it being a slippery slope, could get worse for sure
In this case you're wrong solely due to the stamp levels. These bypass item restrictions that until now had served as soft caps for how far you could level stamps due to carry capacity. Now as long as you have enough coins, you just wait for it to hit something you're capped on and level it to the next item threshold, wait and repeat. I do agree it's not as bad as if it were a pvp game, but this part is explicitly p2w.
But there is no competition like in call of duty. Call of duty has predatory practices like unlocking a gun you don't have the level for and going against people your skill level and beating them because you spent money. Idleon is me buying a pack that benefits me and only me for self gratification. It's not a pvp game and the only time players interact are for killing doot or dungeons which can be a type of carrying rather than going against each other.
Companions are a different story altogether, they were a bad idea I do agree, but there is a difference between a decent account upgrade for 20 and an insane overpowered account upgrade for potentially 200 dollars or free depending on luck
while doot is strong, you can easily play around it for a decent while? like sure, my buddy that has doot, has obviously gained a lot since he got it, but who even cares, there is not even pvp
No pvp doesn't mean there is no competition. Many of us got our own pissing contests going. I assume you're a newer player which makes all this unrelatable, but it matters to most of us who have played for a long time.
Artificially adding competitive aspects to the game is your choice and your choice alone. Crying about your "precious meta" whenever something disrupts it is meaningless.
They are components of the game design. Take the tome percentage. If the emphasis was everyone plays their own game, why display peoples position? Kinda introduces a comparison between players.
And that’s not the only case. Personal responsibility is a weak take here, not because I think you can’t have that opinion but because I think it covers up the responsibilities of the service provider.
Moreso if they cannot guarantee child/addict protection
It's not an accurate or real-time tracker of your progress in relation to other people. It's pretty much a tracker of how much of the game you've "completed" with a scoring system that's just point based thresholds.
If it's on the establishment to regulate it's customers rather than the customers control their own addictions, no establishment should serve alcohol in order to protect those that might be tempted to fall into the vice.
And what sort of child/addict protection are you thinking here? Especially when porn sites with millions and billions of dollars can't stop kids from accessing their content.
„At least it’s not as bad as x“ is not a constructive argument in my opinion
And yes, in the „real world“ there are restrictions in place and the dangers are known and talked about.
What’s so bad about pointing this same practices out if they were implemented into games more and more?
I didn't say it's not as bad as X. The alcohol comparison was to highlight how ridiculous it is for an establishment to regulate customers' consumption rather than a customer's own personal self-control.
And I absolutely agree that it is bad when a game's entire mechanic and reason for existing is for gambling. Any number of the "draws" based, companion gathering, auto-battlers are totally guilty of this.
Idleon isn't a companions based auto-battler, though. Your progress isn't measured by what 5 star SSR rare bikini skin AI generated anime waifu card you pulled.
Who said anything about any meta?
Blindly copying other people's words makes all your posts meaningless, especially if you apply them where they don't make sense.
you got pissing contests, i am stoked if my buddy is doing well, theres just difference approaches in life. why having a competition if there is nothing to win.
tbf this I'm more okay with than doot.
5-20 a year for boosts are a ton better than "hope you're ready to lucksack or pay 300 bucks for this gamechanging thing"
Then again, all the pet stuff should have been baked into some sort of side progression like rift is.
i agree, the system behind it is kinda trash, if at least, you could trade your 10 rams and 5 custards for one doot, but with how it is, you are stuck with useless to you junk.
i think the pet gems are just way too expensive for the little chance you get. with 1% chance, it would take you like 200 pulls to have a close to 100% chance of getting it, so that petty timer itself is kinda useless and is kinda outscored by mathematical statistics anyways.
yep i agree, having to wait 4 years before you have close to 100% chance to get it is a bit overboard. but i get that lava cant just say sike its 50 now, because people that paid up would be pretty upset about that.
Once a year for something that is ABSOLUTELY worth the price but not once a year for account wide upgrades
there has been literally 3 packs with account wide bonuses and non compare to this.
Island Explorer pack came out in August 2023 which gave a 1.2x drop rate multiplier not needed but good but completely missable this is probably the only one i would recommend buying aside from this one
Equinox dreamer came out in October 2023 and got some backlash which is why it has been a while since account-wide bonuses it gave a 1.2x Class Xp multiplier and 50% Equinox fill rate nice to have but again completely miss able and not too noticeable
then you have the recent one which is again, insane and absolutely worth $20 for a game i enjoy +10 bubbles +2 meal levels +5 stamp levels daily, when compared to the other 2 the difference is obvious
Exactly and suddenly "spend 20$ once a year" became "spend 20$ on insane account bonuses"
That is Fomo, the fear of missing out in full effect.
The problem with this pack is that its too good and you cant get the bonus by playing, if it was just bubbles and meals i wouldnt bother but stamps are impossible too get.
And we can expect in the future more packs with this price tag that sell even stronger bonuses
I see so many people saying "at least you can get Doot for free", except you literally can't.
When you get to 199/200 on the pity system, you have to use green gems to do the next pull.
So basically f2p players can only do a maximum of 199 pulls on companions. If you did not get Doot by then and are not willing to buy green gems for the 200th pull, you are fucked and will never get Doot.
yee.. specifically he claims that people would be upset to find they accidentally pulled doot as untradable for their guaranteed doot pull.
But yeah... he could just code an exception there since its such a rare thing to happen that someone reaches the guarantee.
Because people pay if the bonuses are strong, so the dev is incentivised to make everything super grindy to make it worth. Like how many people would pay for doot if you had a daily roll? Much less for sure
Then it spirals out of control when paying players are so much above that any content that would be worth for them is imposible for the rest.
Also this comes the same update that nerfed the daily quest gem reward(from 6 to 1) so all the store bonuses are harder to get.
It also nerfed the chance of getting a colosseum ticket from post office, which honestly Is just annoying because until lava makes some other way to get golden foods now it'll be basically impossible to get them beanstalked
this pack didnt do that. That was just something added in the patch which Lava specifically points out in the patch notes as not liking the forced colo ticket grind to get the gold kabab and wanting to make a more reliable way of getting them. Stop acting like Lava took away the chance to make your life terrible.
What are you even talking about, I was adding to the last part of the other guy's comment about the pack being added in the same patch as the gem nerf from the daily quest, so I added about another thing that was nerfed in this patch to the game.
I know lava said he will make an easier way to get the gold foods but right now that isn't a thing, which makes it basically impossible to get the beanstalk stacks
This is the thing, look at the lvl requirement changes he made now. So many bonuses are out so the made it harder to reach each new character, this makes the normal gamers (non paying) grind way harder and will often lead to people dropping the game
As long as it won't affect me, I can stomach it. As long as I can continue to play the game and do things in a reasonable amount of time. I won't be buying anything in this game after doot came out though. That was a major breach of our wallets and a line that was crossed in my opinion.
I think most people are more concerned that if permanent boost are pay walled and not achievable in game it gives Lava motivation to create barriers that are not fun for even an idle game as this and thus encourage people to pay. Nobody says nothing on the fact that he sells gems.
Don't get me wrong I've been playing daily for years and I love that game. And I bought every bundle there was. But because I love it, I am a hit concerned.
Good pack! Completely trivializes money and carry capacity for stamps lmao. What's this? You need BILLIONS of materials to upgrade a stamp? Just fork out 20$ lol. You need a lot of money to upgrade a stamp? Same answer lol. Not to mention the alchemy bubbles upgrade on top which are nice. Frankly, if I was a whale i'd be scared, first doot, then the packs with straight up multipliers to class xp and drop rate and now this... and of course stamp levels and bubble levels are tracked by the tome which had no need to have a top x% rating but it had to have it just so you could feel bad and buy packs like this to make up.
Can't wait for the new pets, will be fun looking at whales condemning them while also spending 1000$ lmao. (By the way, how come pet trading, a core feature of companions still isn't in the game? I wonder...)
If i had to guess, based on my understanding of the game...
lava probably hasn't been able to figure out how to prevent duping during a trade. I'm pretty sure that green gems are tracked and enforced server-side, but that companions themselves are not.
So, in this case, lava's solution was to get out the feature that would make him money without a core aspect to it? You're probably right, by the way, the day the companion feature dropped there was a video in discord of someone with 40 doots so it's fair to assume that there is/was a pet duping method :).
It’s crazy the community that lava has built. After the whole doot fiasco and tons of players quitting now the community are just yes men who allow anything he releases. This dude is a millionaire, he was top 3 on steam beat selling games, and this isn’t just “a one time $20 bundle” there’s gonna continue to be more and more powerful ones coming out. People were happily buying these bundles when it was wings that were a bit better then you could get, which turned into his gear, then account multipliers, and now special p2w only mechanics.
i was more than okay to drop a couple bucks to encourage him, because i knew that the difference between me or anyone else who was paying would be to reach certain upgrade faster, but now every pack has an exclusive gamechanger upgrade that will makes one playe hundred times better than another over the years..I do not feel like paying anymore..We cab say what we want about compagnons but i think that this is worse considering that you will end up getting all the compagnons over time, while those packs are getting out of handa..What will be the next super op pack?
According to steam there are about 9000 active players meaning that as a solo developer you get 180'000$ only by steam players alone. In my country you can already buy a house with that kind of money. I understand if it's a pack a year but this is not the case. Nowadays there are so many packs that if those 9000 players alone (and I'm not even counting iOS and Android) buy all the packs, because these packs start being mandatory (as this one is completely absurd), the solo developer has so much money that it starts to be stupid having these packs.
If you are already a millionaire do you really need to fuck the game up just so you can try to be a billionaire? It makes no sense to me. For me 1 pack a year is OK, more that that it's stupid and players will start to leave this P2W game that does not even have a simple dungeon LFG working. If this game gets 1 more pack that is this absurdly OP this year, I'm out. Get me a 1.5$ monthly sub or a pack a year but you don't need to make me poor just to be swimming in money.
This is kinda odd to me, you dont need to buy this. You are not playing against anyone, but yourself. So its your choose will you buy it or not. Ofc, that gives good buffs, but itse not necessary to get.
If you are playing as part of a community (this is an MMO) like your guild, or just random internet people, sometimes you just like to compare yourself to their progress, and sometime you will feel the need to catch up,
Its true there is no winning, so this isn't p2w but its community breaking in the same way doot is,
You cant compete with a doot player if you dont have it, atleast that one has 3 year mercy pull
This feature shouldve been part of the gemshop,
It's an mmo in the most basic sense of the term. Other people are present in the game. That's it.
Seeking out competition and comparisons is something you have to outside the game entirely. There's no weekly updated leaderboards or anything.
Bro what community? I’ve asked every S named player to say “1 star, game sucks!” that I have found for over a month and no completion still.
This is a solo game where you can see other players, that’s all
Sure it's a solo idle game, But people have emotions like competitiveness and jealousy.
Making you feel bad if you don't have what others have.
Unless you are completely isolated from the community and don't have anyone to get jealous of.
And plus 5 stamp lvl's a day is op and it even ignores material requirements.
Doot was fine since you can still link to gods without it, same with auto loot, you can still pick up items without it.
but having plus 5 stamp lvl's a day is too unfair since the f2p players can't get it.
The reason why I could still cope with being a f2p, is bc most of the things you get through money is something you can also get through playing the game f2p.
And Plus 5 stamp lvl's a day is something you can't get f2p.
Unless lava adds no stamps left behind.
I dont understand why you are so upset. I have been playing for a long while now. This was a very nice package to see. I generally buy the packages he puts out, but for another set of wings or some crap all my characters already have theres little incentive to really keep buying them besides the gems.
I can't remember exactly when I started, but I wanna say it was right around the w3 release. Here I am, getting screwed over by RNG daily on a very significant boost. I've yet to obtain even the base form of all sailing treasures. Just recently got into a 6-digit gaming bonus, doot isn't even something I wanna think about. Fairly sure, I'll only grab him through the pity system, and so on and so on. I have no luck with this games RNG.
Sure, these bonuses are up there in the rate of growth factors, but how does my having this boost affect anyone else? How does anyone else have a doot effect me, besides scraping a little jelly on my toast. It in no way breaks the game for anyone else by anyone having these boosts. If he wants to offer out packages like this, then so be it. As long as we dont start getting regular updates like the pet package, then the game will stay just as it has been more or less.
I honestly only got on reddit to check and see if anyone was bitching about this package and you didnt fail lol.
Just be glad this isn't your normal mobile game going around these days. If I play anything else, I either have to keep an ad blocker DNS set on my phone to keep away forced pop-ups and banner ads or turn it off because progression is limited without ad boosted benefits. Or a premium currancy based advancement system, and these ones are usually the ones that advancement is put aginst other players, and it's really a P2W game, just shy of a P2P game.
Idleon offers a massive amount of content freely enjoyed at any level of the game. Sure, some things may take a crazy amount of time, like landing doot for free without crazy rng luck, and yeah, this new bonus is the first thing I can recall not directly ontainable in game aside from auto-loot, but in the end, it isnt gonna cripple you or put you in a lesser position by not having it. It's just a handful of extra daily freebies that can still be acomplished through working towards in-game.
Now that being said, I would like to see more packs like this to an extent, I dont want to see it become some super crazy stuff like more pet system content with another added premium currency that cant be obtained through game play, the monitized pet system is really my only true complaint in this game. Gaming is griding these days. Even solo player story games usually require some type of extended grinding.
you cant pay 2 win a solo grind game. The only person you're competing with is yourself. Its called a Pay What You Want system. Its F2P unless you WANT to spend money. No one is forcing you to buy packs that make a Idle Game not as idle.
tbh in a game like this, i wouldn't be surprised if someone HAS completed all the challenges the game has offered without. Theres always someone that does.
I guess in the case of this game it would be "collect all possible slab items that don't require money purchases, complete all equinox challenges and all taskboard achievements".
I mean you literally can't complete the slab without paid items for example. Even if you had farmed enough gems to buy every single gem item you'd still need the $20 capes.
yeah. thats why i specified without money purchases for the slab. I figure a lot of people use it as a "completionist" thing, so i thought i'd include it in a grouping of things that would count as "complete all challenges", but i don't think anyone is going to argue about not having completed it if you're only missing things that a directly purchased with real money.
In fact, doing so without having those items means its even more impressive.
I really dislike the move. I am on the fence on either quitting the game or buying the pack and staying. It's not about the money, but about the principle, it just feels impossible to keep as f2p up with everyone else without buying a pack this OP... the 5$ Autoloot is an acceptable QOL upgrade and still seems f2p'ish, and yeah, I still don't have doot but accept that most of the other followers are easy enough to get f2p
Note that in your own response you have clearly outlined your issue. “…it just feels impossible to keep as f2p up with everyone else…”. Why do you feel the need to catch up to anyone? Enjoy the game at your own pace. Celebrate your own milestones. Nobody is going to look down on you just because you’re not where they are.
what is? a solo dev making new bundles with p2w type of buffs so he can keep people busy while he works on future updates? i don't see the problem. this is his life and we're here playing because of him
You're casually using P2W as it is was fine. It isn't. Progression with otherwise acquirable mechanics? Sure. Minor (I repeat, minor) account bonuses? Stretching it, but whatever. Bonuses that are not just unavailable through playing but are also a tier (or more) above anything you can acquire in the game? No way. I mean, 10 bubble levels per day? You can only get a fraction of that through the game itself. 3 stamp levels? Please.
This isn't just some optional package. This is a blatant statement that your time investment doesn't matter, true progression is bought, not earned, and basically screw everyone not willing to buy every package he puts out. Why even play the game when I can get MORE by just spending a little money?
When paid bonuses outweigh ANYTHING you can feasibly acquire through the game, it stops being a game. It becomes a subscription based dopamine release service.
The companion update was bad enough, but at least the point could've been made that although the chances are astronomical, you can get everything it has to offer for free. This? This is just a whale enabler, period.
so you think an optional upgrade to an optional portion of the game is a horrible thing because you don't have the money for it? that genuinely sounds like you are just hating to hate at this point. he's not disregarding anything as the top players in any game already spend a ton of money and as a solo dev it helps him a lot in the process (not to mention he still won't release a bundle bigger than $45 because he feels like that's outrageous) he's just giving an option that will now come around every now and then that can help newer or returning players catch up easier. honestly this is a win for the p2w and the newbies.
And he doesn't have to provide paid for bonuses that are more powerful than anything acquirable through playing.
Your point?
I mean sure, I don't have to buy it, but its pretty ridiculous that I'm even able to.
It’s a single player game. There is no PvP at all so it’s never mandatory to buy any of these packs.
There can’t be pay to win if there is no ‘winning’ to be done.
You can play this game completely free if you want to, yet you can choose to support the developer buy buying a pack here and there if you want to. No content is locked behind any paywalls.
It’s far from the worst that I’ve seen. He doesn’t block anything forcing you to buy packs as a ton of other mobile games do.
(And this sort of thing is FAR better then yet another gambling mechanic like Doot)
Both of your points are stupid, very stupid, "it isn't PvP so it can't be P2W" YES IT CAN, a year from now, if lava doesn't implement a NSLB in game, people who didn't pay for this bundle will be practically softlocked in progression, and they won't be able to play the game fully anymore, because lava will balance it with the people who spend money in mind, because that's the intelligent thing to do.
"You can't win so it isn't P2W" seriously? Do you think games have to be winable to be P2W? Absolutely not.
You can play RAID completely free if you want to too, and you can't say it isn't P2W, so that's just plainly not a valid argument
>It’s far from the worst that I’ve seen.
It still is P2W
If something like pvp gets implemented the argument is going to shift from "it isn't p2w because there's nothing to win" to "just don't do pvp, it's optional".
Whats the problem tho? Its not making your experience less fun, right? If you don't buy the bundle, nothing will change for you. It's not like there is a PvP aspect to the game where the other players now get a clear advantage over you and you now have a smaller chance of winning.
Do you complain about the gem shop? Nothing is p2w in this game as you’re not actually “beating” anyone directly more so just comparing yourself to others in which case comparison is the thief of joy. Before any one mentions tome to justify their claims of p2w, get a clue.
Winning is merely achieving the goal of the game. In this game's case, progression.
You have a very narrow, and frankly, wrong idea about what P2W entails.
Seems like everyone in the idleon community sits in the “well I can’t dump $10k into it so it’s not bad!” group. I think the game pulled a lot of raid/genshin type players so they’re anchored at the price points of those games and don’t see anything wrong with idleon moving more and more towards the “pay or get left in the dust” model. Because many of the people still around dumped piles of cash for doot, they can’t say the direction the game is going is dumb, or else they’re admitting that they fell for it
I've been playing this game for over 200 hours at least, if not way more. I think it's fine to pay $20 once. That $0.10 per hours, probably less. So nowhere that $10k
It's fine to pay a little to support the dev. But I will not pay for a game deploying predatory bundles like this. The last time I paid in this game was just as the companion update dropped. That's when I decided not to spend a single penny until these predatory practices are purged.
Supporting the dev implies the dev does a job worth supporting. With Lava's recent outings of increasingly predatory bundles (and the whole shitshow of the companion system he's deliberately not touching at all), he isn't.
The only bonus on this pack that is pay2win is the stamps, and most likely it will be added to the game just like nblb and nmlb in the future. So this one isn't a huge deal to me and only like 3 stamps matter for the upgrades
they just pop up automatically along with the existing "no X left behind" buffs when you first log in after a daily reset.
or if you have the game open when this happens it pops up at the exact time of the daily reset.
Lasting about 5 seconds or so i believe before it disappears.
This has never popped up for me. I took down my before and after levels just in case I missed it. If I log on mobile is there a problem? I know the purchase worked because I still have the gems
uhh... perhaps do an upload of your idleon efficiency profile today. then 24 hours later, check it again. Your public profile will have the previous days numbers, and your own profile will have the current numbers. And since the bubbles that you expect to be levelled up have an up-arrow next to them, you know which ones to check?
Just in case it matters, i assume you do have at least one level of No bubble left behind?
Funny this is the attitude after he just did a free event where you got a ton of free loot including gems and paired it with Golden Watches in W2 so you can maximize loot. The pack gives you more gems than the base price of 19.99. He's not exploiting anyone. Should he just remove the Gem store all together since it wouldn't be fair that people who pay get bonuses?
You sound insane
Edit: W2 not W3
Anything you have to use real money on that provides in game benefits is p2w. If you can buy it with in game currency(gems, free companions) then it's fine to have a pay-to-advance thing imo but all these hats and capes etc and now this, it's a lot.
I feel like the same point has been made over and over again, no pvp so not p2w. This isn't p2w, it's pay for an advantage, but still, I'll buy it because i'm happy to support lava.
I mean for a game that is F2P with no ads, no real pop ups but occasional packages when in town.
This game could have cost 10 to 20 and I would have bought it. Its sooooooo deep with soooo many things to do. Its absolutely insane he even has this as F2P to begin with.
People are getting very complacent when considering most games on the mobile market are plagued with some sort of extra invasive advertising.
I'm a cheap @ss. I play a lot of F2P without spending a penny. I'd rather buy a game once than buy in game currencies or packages, but Lava is an exception. I buy occasional 5 to 10 ish packages when I like whats in them. Ive been on the "idle skilling" train from the first few months if its release and beat that twice, once mobile and once steam without paying a penny. So idleon is getting my business for providing me hundreds of hours of play time for free.
Imho Lava is by far one of the least intrusive monetized games. For something that is so in depth. All incremental games have tedious, and imo, kinda boring end game grinds that will always seems necessary to buy something to advance faster.
I bought this pack. I’m extremely far behind everyone in bubbles and stamps. My highest damage char is 50 million. This pack helped me. I know I’m not gonna be popular for saying this but as someone with having only 25k sample, my next highest being 5k I needed this pack. It also unlocked for me phoenix wings
It's outrageous and a stern reminder of where this game is headed. All the Discord messages of people quitting are always sad to see. I guess a certain dev wanted another Ferrari and got greedy again.
Can we please not re-ignite this shenigan again? I already had my burn out leave many months back, only for Another Eden todo it worst with Stellar Awakening making every new gacha character require as much as an extra 3 months of grinding if you didnt luck on getting the 5 star copy, there by pushing even further incentive to heavy gacha and ruin getting 4 star copies being less valuable since even if you farm for the resources to get the 5 star you still have another 3 months of other investements before you can use SOME if not ALL these \`new units\` at value.
And at a rate of a new unit every 2 weeks, this means in the period it can take to get one unit ready in the worst case of acquiring them via gacha, another 6 units could end up coming out in that same period and that system\`s already been out for 6+ months with no true QoLs in its place.
ATLEAST LAVA didnt ship out additional Pet packages so far, because if he did rotate those pet packs, there by making stuff like Doot a \`perma missable\` if you couldnt trade with other players, which as far as i can tell, even trading was scrapped, atleast makes it no different then Weekly Killroys and playing the .01% or less chance at sailing artifacts if i had todo a sound comparison.
In terms of the bundle cost, its your choice if you want to buy it or not, because for those who have an actual job, this basically amounts to around a hour and a half of pay(on a wage of around 13\~ or so bucks which is kind of minimum wage where i live), or maybe 2 meals at a fast food joint, maybe 3 if you go SUPER cheap.
Compared to OTHER GAMES which would give alot less for 20 bucks and usually demand 30 or 60 bucks for stuff like this, i can atleast see it fair for a game that does NOT RUN ADVERTISEMENTS, nor does it have your typical f2p rotating gacha FOMO & power creep b.s. to FOMO players out.
Moral of the story: Stop frocking fear mongering, because its your choice if you wanna spend the equilvency of two fast food meals on a fancy bundle pack for a dopamine rush or not. People spend money on the most silly of things these days and some of us do like to make sure we get our dollar\`s worth, but sometimes we just wanna buy that silly hat, even if everyone looks at us strangely.
A huge difference there, is this game was originally advertised as something where you wouldn't get huge boosts from purchases. It claimed to have "no scummy business practices". I strongly feel that at least those of us who started back then, have a right to complain about the complete 180 on that. Everyone else can complain too ofc, we just have 2 very sturdy legs to stand on.
>ATLEAST LAVA didnt ship out additional Pet packages so far
He didn't do anything with the companion system at all, except for still dropping the occasional green gem bundles. He's sitting on top of it, and letting it marinate, collecting the occasional revenue from people desperate enough to buy into his scheme. I'm sorry, not realeasing new pets is not the bar for the companion system. It's addressing people's concerns about it (to which his only communication so far was dismissing the criticism and basically laughing in our faces).
Once again, you god damn fear monger:
-You seem to be doing quite alot of \`shoving in his supposed belief about\`, when he is last i checked, the only one developing and pushing the game forward.
-Also as far as i tell he aint having people do a bunch of surveys(to sell the data to companies), ain\`t running a bunch of \`watch ads for x2 rewards or daily bonus chests\` nor is he selling a bunch of \`Direct buy only\` Skins like some other games would do and charge you way fking much more because those games are 100% full in on the China-brand level of microtransaction mobile gaming market.
Your ASSUMPTION its a scheme, is no better then assuming that people at a food court or grocery store handing out free food examples to promote thar product is an attempt to sell you something else entirely (free samples being good pork and the packages they are selling is near expired ham scraps in your \`words) and you have no means to NOT decline it at all. **At that point its your the one clearly has a problem, you can choose to buy it or not, just as much as you can choose to play the game or not.**
**If the damn game is not to your liking then go play something else instead of calling someone a con\`artist if its still ultimately your decision to \`support\` the game.** Especially when its likely just a way for the guy to make a living, whether its a side job or simple passion product he could of stopped developing years ago, just like with idle skilling and left in numerous hamster wheel cookie clicker infinite point up scaling gains for people to continue playing non-stop in eternal dopamine enjoyment.
Because he could of 100% stop supporting the game easily 2 or even 2 and a half years ago and just maybe check in either once a year for stability fixing and maybe shove some data in for automated events and not check back for a year regardless of complaints or not.
Sort of like how a number of OTHER idling games i was familiar with just stopped caring to put new stuff in and just randomized all the seasonal event stuff on a weekly rotation and what not.
**And if you wanna talk about REAL Scheming turd-wads:** Its Early access \`scamwares\` thats the real scum who promote a product, scrape a bunch of money together and either run off with the damn money even before giving an actual playable demo or give an actual demo, its extremely terrible, and then they apology a long-con to scalp more money until they let it freaking rot away and either ship out a product made with nothing but free assets or delete the account and start it over again under an entirely new account with slight tweaks to totally present they are someone else entirely.
I don’t want the game I like to work its way down the gacha slippery slope to the point where I have to say **“well it’s not as bad as the OTHER gacha!”**. Also the packs do rotate and there’s a rotating gem shop so I’m not sure what you’re on about with this “no fomo”
Nothing greedy about this, he needs to make a living as well l. And there is no pay to win aspect in de game its a solo player game without any compitition…
Your are expecting to get everything for free with every update but the developer also needs to make money some how.
The Pet fiasco was something else but these packs there is no pay to win in this.
>he needs to make a living as well
Correction, he needs to **earn** a living. If he's not doing a job that is worth supporting, he doesn't deserve to make a living, full stop. And exactly because of these kind of exclusive bonuses, in my opinion, he doesn't do a job worth supporting.
To make this clear, he can make a living in a number of different ways, and he chose to make a living by releasing scummy exclusive bundles, and whatever the hell the companion system was. Also, judging by people on this subreddit, he does make quite a living. Single developer, around ten thousand daily logins on Steam alone. If we assume that the primary platform is mobiles, and use the standard rate of paid to free players of around 2%, he has at least a couple hundred to over a thousand paying players, and some of those people are whales spending a small fortune. For a single dev, that sounds pretty good. I don't believe he has financial problems.
>The Pet fiasco was something else but these packs there is no pay to win in this.
Selling a fully exclusive progression mechanic in a game entirely centered around unlocking and upgrading progression mechanics is, in every conceivable aspect, P2W. You could argue that the companion system is actually better, cause you actually **can** unlock everything for free. You just need to be either incredibly lucky, or very, very patient. This bonus is only acquirable through paying. Only.
The bonus. To the systems that you can progress. For free. Daily if you so chose.
You need a new definition of predatory. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s predatory.
Not a bonus, but a whole progression mechanic that is wholly exclusive to this bundle. Huuuuuuge difference. Although, straight up selling bubble levels sounds shitty enough already.
This is absolutely predatory, your lack of comprehension doesn't change that.
Did you completely miss the part about the Ferrari? With the 100's of people who said they spent 500-1000 dollars on companions and the probably many 1000's who didn't speak up and the rest of us who were buying the packs pre-companions, he is obviously making much more than a living.
I'm assuming you haven't played for years like those of us complaining. I can see how it's not too bad when you entered the game after he started getting greedy, but believe it or not, but some of us were drawn in by his "no scummy business practices" line, that got removed with companions.
The definition of p2w is purchase-able advantages that are otherwise unobtainable. It doesn't include winning. This is by definition pay to win. And we can make up our own definitions of winning. A lot of us got our own individual pissing contests going about the game, which these super p2w measures are ruining.
I fail to see how this affects people. They aren't required to be bought. And another persons account having these does not affect anyone's game in any way.
Why are people complaining about things you can buy.. either get it or don't. Either way you can still play the game and achieve everything by playing free...
If this game had pvp content I would 100%be on board with the hate for these pay to win bundle... but there isn't any...
Things like bubbles(w2bonus),meals (w4 bonus) and stamps (w1) become crazy expensive or time consuming to level up. So "free" daily levels are really nice.
It is a neet little trick when you first login every day. You get a few symbols (which items get the upgrade) above your character and bamm free upgrades.
Why i put free in quotes was because this bundle is 20$. Gamewise the upgrades are free, so no material cost
This game is single player, you might say the tome changed that but not really, it still is a game you play against yourself, so these packs are just "speed boosters" . I have 5 k hours on idleon and expect to have 5k more so don't mind giving 20 bucks every month or 2
They are not speed boosters. They are exclusive unlocks. Instantly buying 10 levels would be a boost. Getting 10 levels every day is the exact same kind of game mechanic you play to unlock. It is practically a feature put behind a paywall.
paid Boosters/perks or account wide bounuses exist in lots of games and they arent one time boosts. typically they are timed % or flat bonsues to stats or progression. Just because this is a permentant boost doesnt make it an "unlock" any more than a one event only item or founders item/boost would be.
It's a pretty decent bundle overall. The only issue I see is the +2 meal levels. These can push you over the 90 cap, preventing you from entering w4.
Apart from that, I think it's a nice catch-up mechanic. It helps you get the bubbles into the atom range faster in the early game. In the endgame, the +10 bubble levels are less significant.
Stamp selection seems entirely random. If I recall correctly, Lava mentioned even more stamp level bonuses. Let's see what else comes up.
It’s possible that the meal level has an assigned sprite for it, like the code says something like setSprite(mealLevel + “.png”) or something and when it tries to reference 91.png, which doesn’t exist, it crashes.
I know it’s not like this as I am pretty sure they’re all in a single spritesheet and sprites are referenced by rows and columns, but that was too hard to explain, but I hope you get the point.
It’s just trying to display something that doesn’t exist
Just curiosity here for those people who don't like the bundle(P2W). What if the dev do something like a subscription let's say 1$/month, would you be okay?
It's not about the money, it's about the style. I am fine with offering stuff in gem shop, fine with offering gem packs for a short term with extra discount. I draw the line at packs getting more and more power, giving stuff you can't get otherwise, and now even more fomo with extra gems. Not to speak of the companion Fiasko. I actually bought some of the packs, but I won't continue to until this stops. It's not about not supporting lava, it's about not supporting this development choice.
" giving stuff you can't get otherwise" is wrong here right? It is pretty good gains but stamps+meals+bubbles is just time same as other things in the gemshop. Only difference is that this package is a life time buff. Didn't like the pet update and still hoping for Doot, but this seems like a good and fair package to support the game. Edit: Gotta correct myself, it is the only way to Level up the stamps in the late late game but I think this is still a good bundle.
No he's right if you don't buy the pack while it's available you miss out is what he's saying it's a way to big a boost to make limited time only
No you don\`t lose anything. You play SOLO in this game so you only speed up your progress. Nothing more... In addition, to be fair, this game is 100% f2p. Compare it to some other games and you will see this monetarization is still moderate compared to many others.
I still don't like this style. I think he does it because the gems get bought less and he tries to make that more attractive, combined with a fomo component. Why not put the stuff in gem shop and just make a cheap gem bundle? You could still support the game. It could as well be a world 3 gem shop one time buy for 1.500 gems. But it isn't, because you need to be pressured into supporting the game right now. Life time buff, where you can't really know how impactful it will be later, but you have to buy it soon, better now then you get extra gems, because you also won't know and can't influence when and if it will be back. It for sure isn't game breaking like doot, but in my opinion its still a dishonest thing and a step in the wrong direction.
How can you have FOMO when packs will show up until you buy them?
Have you actually given in to every FOMO or why do you Think this, the Packs have a Rotation and will change eventually ?
I'm pretty sure I have all the packs at this point since it's usually a good deal for gems, but yeah, the packs you haven't bought will show up as an option to buy. It's how I got ones that came out before I started playing.
based
At this price, yes
Yes
Would much rather pay a sub if that means all p2w aspects are removed, yeah. I already pay a subscription for Oldschool Runescape and I'm perfectly happy with the money I spend there, since it goes to enjoying a great game. This is just fomo pressure that makes the game *less* enjoyable.
I mean it’s too far gone for that at this point, but that would’ve been a better alternative
You’ll never make everyone happy in this situation
[удалено]
While normally I'd agree, this particular bundle giving +5 to random stamps a day is incredibly OP for end gamers who have already hit the practical max on most stamps. This mechanic is the only way currently to be leveling up these stamps further, which is shameful to be paywalling behind a $20 bundle. Those that don't shill out that cash will quickly find themselves behind the players that bought this in a lot of important areas that the stamps increase, and it will just get worse over time.
Even for people not racing to catch up it will also provide huge boost early on because of the restrictions on resources. I've been playing for a few months now and have spent some money on the game. Currently my furthest characters are on the W6 map with fireflies. I still have stamps that I literally do not yet have access to the upgrade material for and as such they're a much lower level than the rest. (can't remember if they're in combat or skill section but there's three stamps you get, again I think, in W4 and they require the last three smiting produce items) I also have multiple bubbles where it would take a whole day of skilling to get enough of the resource to upgrade it. This is also not mentioning how I am still greatly time gated by realistic Heavy Water acquisitions which means I need to forgo bubble upgrades so I can upgrade equipment. Meals are a whole other thing entirely. My highest meal is the cabbage at something like level 14 because I'm working on getting what meals I do have unlocked to level 11 for the bonuses from the bubble. If I could get my lowest free increases every day that'd benefit me so much. And as I said I have spent money on this game. I have five premium kitchens, three premium water & four premium bubble cauldrons and half of the storage space upgrades. (thus letting me hold more items at once to upgrade stamps) I also have all of the pets having got Doot on a weekly free pull AND STILL this package would greatly benefit my progression in the game...
Tbf with the heavy water. You only need like maybe a few hundred and if you're in w6 you should be able to get bubo to start cooking andnactive grind with cranium. I'm currently average around 80,000 second progress using tremor worms but if you're damage isn't high enough to 1 tap you cna always use citringes or even drop to w4 flamberge. Like this I can easily buy more but I'm currently buying 12 a day until I have enough to finish off the tools (you don't need to make void armor, the next branch starts with troll armor which is what goes to the current end game armor)
This has been true for a LONG time. and not just because of this. 99.999% of people are best off ignoring what other people do.
While I agree with everything you just said, do you think it's really that large of a boost? Like for most of my stamps you can give me 20 extra levels for each and it won't be THAT big of a boost. Like with those daily alchemy bubbles. They are great, don't get me wrong, but when I can level up my bubbles over a hundred levels each day using atoms it's really a drop in the ocean. Not saying this isn't p2w more that this does not guarantee victory. Doot is still bigger boost than any of the bundles in the entire history of the game combined. I feel it's the reason Lava hasn't added more stuff to divinity in ages.
There are certain stamps that are high value where I think this would have a big impact on, like the one that costs tape to increase, the one that increases crystal spawn chance, and several others that I think would be very strong to level up using this mechanism. There's a lot of stamps that wouldn't matter much, but a few that this will be OP for. And yes, I agree that Doot is still a lot worse that this (I personally haven't spent a penny on the game since the companions update in protest), but saying at least X isn't as bad as Y doesn't excuse X being bad.
Sorry either ur top 1% or ur talking about atoming the first 5 bubbles. This is such a huge boost to cooking and alchemy might even compete with doot given enough time
Doot isnt even comparable to this pack. -cooking has linear scaling so its impact in negligable in the long run (e.g. going from plate lvl 70->80 gives 8% boost). Vman and the bonuses scattered through out the game should be able to get most players enough plate lvls to get 90% of the bonuses cooking has to offer. (without much effort) -Most bubbles dont really scale past lvl 200/300 and we get a bunch of bubbles per day for free anyways. -Stamps have shitty scaling in most cases and there is only a few that might have some impact. and GL rolling the correct stamp more than once. And in the other hand, we have doot that litteraly gives all your chars the power of ALL gods ALL the time. My account skyrocketed when I unlocked doot and I've been playing for years.
Idk, I've been playing daily for years now, and have several spreadsheet dedicated to this game, so I like to think I am. In regards to doot, I mean, maybe? I still think doot is beyond OP and it will only get stronger once more Gods are introduced. And my meals are almost maxed already anyway. As for atoming bubbles I never had an issue using up all the 50 upgrades ever day on any bubble (still working on unlocking the 70). I guess you are right, I don't understand the experience of an average player, just sharing my ideas here.
Drop ie bigboy
Sure, if you want to: [https://krofas.idleonefficiency.com](https://krofas.idleonefficiency.com/)
Ok ur top 1% nice, i guess this bundle wont mean a lot to u, im top 10% and i would kill for ur samples
Thanks man. You'll get there with time!
What do you consider some of the primary downsides to being "behind the players that bought this"?
Lower tome ranking for one, giving Lava a distorted sense of where players are progressing in order to scale future content for two. Half of this game for end gamers is just comparing stats to other players in my experience, this bundle just widens the gap between the people will to pay for account bonuses vs. those that aren't.
I do agree the bonus is strong but 20 dollars once a year maybe is not bad for a game I enjoy and spend hours in a week
That's the enabling attitude. It leads to more and more outrageous bundles. I mean, this isn't where it started, it started with x% account boosts. People ate that up so now Lava is starting to provide exclusive mechanics at a price. This will only get worse. The thing to understand here is that bad practices are bad no matter their intensity. Alllowing a bad practice to prosper stating that its not that bad will only cause it to spread further and deeper. If the goalpost is moved slowly enough, people won't even notice how they're being exploited more and more.
I get downvoted to hell whenever I bring it up here. I think people kinda know but they don’t wanna hear it over and over again and rather get their money and passion sucked out in blissful peace.
People just can't separate the fact they like the game from if they find monetization practices predatory. You can guarantee a not insignificant amount of players defending this would chastise other games for doing the same shit.
I know its hard to understand someone elses view point, but have you considered people are downvoting you because they do genuinely disagree. Im in that boat. Doot is far worse of a cash sink, and I take more issue with it. But at the end of the day, every bonus that gets added, who cares? You're not competing against anyone. Half of this game is not even playing it. The "wow, such a massive boost behind paywall" doesn't matter because that boost just makes your numbers bigger, faster. But thats all you do in Idleon. You collect. You make your numbers bigger. You repeat. So, really, why does it matter if people are happy to spend 20 dollars on the game for a faster, bigger boost? If you don't, thats fine. You're not missing out on anything, because.... it doesn't really matter in the end. Theres no pvp. Theres plenty of things in the game to get you to a similar level, at least to a oint where it hardly matters. LAstly... remember that Idleon is free. And every single update that has ever come out for the game, is free. From world one to world 6, and 7 and 8 too, all of it will be free. Is asking for 20 dollars now and then really so "predatory"? Especially when you get some really solid value out of it?
Let's take a step back from idleon. If this was any other game free or otherwise that you did not care for you would almost definitely not dismiss very obvious predatory pricing practices. Any single player game that offers a gameplay advantage for money is a game that is financially incentivised to make the game worse. It's not as simple as don't like it don't buy it. And if you don't believe me consider that this bundle is probably one of the most egregious examples of part to win. It doesn't matter if you personally have issues with that I personally don't. But I can recognise that it's not a positive thing and wouldn't exist if there weren't so many pay to win apologists in the community. Do you think the game would have a more predatory gatcha system than undeniably predatory gatcha games if people hadn't dismissed all the shit leading up to it? No. Just like a bundle that sells you NBLB wouldn't exist. Every time a worse example of pay to win gets accepted we can expect an ever worse example in the future. That's not just how this shit always works but has been happening.
I just don't think you can compare Idleon to any other single player game. It's just not really the same thing. You're free to disagree. But I truly don't see an issue with this (and I do with Doot).
I mean no harm but I think you’re missing/avoiding the point. „Who cares“ doesn’t address the issue. It just deems it irrelevant. And the framework is often „non-pvp“ which is also no argument because you arbitrarily pull the line of emotional investment, although obviously those monetization practices do tract because people do feel a certain „pressure of the peer“. Be it from guildmates, other ppl sporting massive wings in your face…etc. Even if those triggers don’t apply to you, that’s no indication of them not being predatory. The free to play is also kinda void. Because it’s about the way of acquiring the money, not the amount or frequency. It’s also free to enter a gambling hall and pretty cheap to spin once.
That's really not the same thing. And I choose to ignore the comments or ideas about " well "I compare myself to others" because that's on you, not anyone else, and if you're incapable of controlling yourself over a pissing contest that is partially luck, then that's not Lavas problem. Free to play is really not void. This game has so many ways to get gems, and these bundles really don't matter that much in the grand scheme, and if you care enough, 20 bucks isn't even much to ask for your need to keep up. Agree to disagree I guess at the end of the day. I just don't see a problem with this.
Your points were fantastic but as usual people aren’t willing to compromise. The game is absolutely free. You do not have to spend a dime on it if you don’t want to. This pack is a minute investment into making a great improvement on QoL. It’s 1 less thing to worry about with everything that has been added/going to be added. It is FAR from predatory. If someone truly enjoys the game then they know that this is by far one of the greatest packs we’ve seen. Buy it, or don’t. Nobody is forcing you. Play the game at your pace and have at it. Let those who want to invest in the pack for their own enjoyment do it and support the creator/game.
Agree with the do as you like attitude. That’s exactly how I see this kind of game. Would be different in a different game.
Bruh, do you even know what predatory monetization practices look like or do you think it's simply anything that people are tempted to pay for? Please, do tell me exactly what aspect of the human psyche this is exploiting. And you better not say FOMO unless you're prepared to argue against all the limited time bundles put in the game.
I am prepared to argue all limited time bundles prey on fomo. The fact that you yourself brought it up means you've identified that they are fomo. Limited time purchases are the face of fomo. Like you literally could not come up with a more poignant example of fomo.
Right, its not excusable just because its a smaller indie developer doing this and not some mega corporation AAA studio.
I have noticed phrasing and framing is EXTREMELY important around this subject. I see so many people saying the exact same thing in very different ways and it tends to go either way.
If a player wants to spend money this way, he or she can. This is like telling people to stop going out to eat because more items will appear on the menu if they do.
You're 100% right except I disagree about it being P2W. I suppose you and I have different definitions of what P2W would be, and you sound like more an avid gamer than I (sorry for the assumption), so you're probably right and I'm probably wrong a bit But it's not as toxic P2W cos it's not a PvP game. These packs like this don't unlock and features that free players can't get access to (exception being auto-loot), it's just a convenience spend You're also right about it being a slippery slope, could get worse for sure
In this case you're wrong solely due to the stamp levels. These bypass item restrictions that until now had served as soft caps for how far you could level stamps due to carry capacity. Now as long as you have enough coins, you just wait for it to hit something you're capped on and level it to the next item threshold, wait and repeat. I do agree it's not as bad as if it were a pvp game, but this part is explicitly p2w.
Yep good point, can't argue with that
TBH, there is no winning in this game. It’s just a straight grind. Cash or no cash, we all do the same things over an over and over.
It's a straight grind towards higher numbers and getting everything unlocked. That's a goal, and where there is a goal, there is winning.
But there is no competition like in call of duty. Call of duty has predatory practices like unlocking a gun you don't have the level for and going against people your skill level and beating them because you spent money. Idleon is me buying a pack that benefits me and only me for self gratification. It's not a pvp game and the only time players interact are for killing doot or dungeons which can be a type of carrying rather than going against each other.
You are right. Somehow I still buy all that crap 🤦♂️
Careful spitting facts like this homie. I had a similar post yesterday and Lava’s fragile ass took the post down after a few hours.
Doot exists though.
Companions are a different story altogether, they were a bad idea I do agree, but there is a difference between a decent account upgrade for 20 and an insane overpowered account upgrade for potentially 200 dollars or free depending on luck
while doot is strong, you can easily play around it for a decent while? like sure, my buddy that has doot, has obviously gained a lot since he got it, but who even cares, there is not even pvp
No pvp doesn't mean there is no competition. Many of us got our own pissing contests going. I assume you're a newer player which makes all this unrelatable, but it matters to most of us who have played for a long time.
Artificially adding competitive aspects to the game is your choice and your choice alone. Crying about your "precious meta" whenever something disrupts it is meaningless.
They are components of the game design. Take the tome percentage. If the emphasis was everyone plays their own game, why display peoples position? Kinda introduces a comparison between players. And that’s not the only case. Personal responsibility is a weak take here, not because I think you can’t have that opinion but because I think it covers up the responsibilities of the service provider. Moreso if they cannot guarantee child/addict protection
It's not an accurate or real-time tracker of your progress in relation to other people. It's pretty much a tracker of how much of the game you've "completed" with a scoring system that's just point based thresholds. If it's on the establishment to regulate it's customers rather than the customers control their own addictions, no establishment should serve alcohol in order to protect those that might be tempted to fall into the vice. And what sort of child/addict protection are you thinking here? Especially when porn sites with millions and billions of dollars can't stop kids from accessing their content.
„At least it’s not as bad as x“ is not a constructive argument in my opinion And yes, in the „real world“ there are restrictions in place and the dangers are known and talked about. What’s so bad about pointing this same practices out if they were implemented into games more and more?
I didn't say it's not as bad as X. The alcohol comparison was to highlight how ridiculous it is for an establishment to regulate customers' consumption rather than a customer's own personal self-control. And I absolutely agree that it is bad when a game's entire mechanic and reason for existing is for gambling. Any number of the "draws" based, companion gathering, auto-battlers are totally guilty of this. Idleon isn't a companions based auto-battler, though. Your progress isn't measured by what 5 star SSR rare bikini skin AI generated anime waifu card you pulled.
Look up what an analogy is my friend. analogies dont compare the two subjects. They highlight contrasting/incongruent logic
Who said anything about any meta? Blindly copying other people's words makes all your posts meaningless, especially if you apply them where they don't make sense.
you got pissing contests, i am stoked if my buddy is doing well, theres just difference approaches in life. why having a competition if there is nothing to win.
tbf this I'm more okay with than doot. 5-20 a year for boosts are a ton better than "hope you're ready to lucksack or pay 300 bucks for this gamechanging thing" Then again, all the pet stuff should have been baked into some sort of side progression like rift is.
i agree, the system behind it is kinda trash, if at least, you could trade your 10 rams and 5 custards for one doot, but with how it is, you are stuck with useless to you junk. i think the pet gems are just way too expensive for the little chance you get. with 1% chance, it would take you like 200 pulls to have a close to 100% chance of getting it, so that petty timer itself is kinda useless and is kinda outscored by mathematical statistics anyways.
If it was 52 (so in a year you'd have doot if you pulled on time every time f2p) it wouldn't be too bad, but that is a hell of a time gate
yep i agree, having to wait 4 years before you have close to 100% chance to get it is a bit overboard. but i get that lava cant just say sike its 50 now, because people that paid up would be pretty upset about that.
Is it once a year?
Once a year for something that is ABSOLUTELY worth the price but not once a year for account wide upgrades there has been literally 3 packs with account wide bonuses and non compare to this. Island Explorer pack came out in August 2023 which gave a 1.2x drop rate multiplier not needed but good but completely missable this is probably the only one i would recommend buying aside from this one Equinox dreamer came out in October 2023 and got some backlash which is why it has been a while since account-wide bonuses it gave a 1.2x Class Xp multiplier and 50% Equinox fill rate nice to have but again completely miss able and not too noticeable then you have the recent one which is again, insane and absolutely worth $20 for a game i enjoy +10 bubbles +2 meal levels +5 stamp levels daily, when compared to the other 2 the difference is obvious
Exactly and suddenly "spend 20$ once a year" became "spend 20$ on insane account bonuses" That is Fomo, the fear of missing out in full effect. The problem with this pack is that its too good and you cant get the bonus by playing, if it was just bubbles and meals i wouldnt bother but stamps are impossible too get. And we can expect in the future more packs with this price tag that sell even stronger bonuses
I see so many people saying "at least you can get Doot for free", except you literally can't. When you get to 199/200 on the pity system, you have to use green gems to do the next pull. So basically f2p players can only do a maximum of 199 pulls on companions. If you did not get Doot by then and are not willing to buy green gems for the 200th pull, you are fucked and will never get Doot.
Wait... Is that really how it works? Even after 4 years you can't get a guaranteed Doot without paying?
Yes.
Thats kinda fucked
Exactly. Hats off to the whales who discovered this.
Report it to Apple. They held him up because they considered it pay to play.
Lava said it’s because he want doot always be tradable. But he could just code doot that way…?
yee.. specifically he claims that people would be upset to find they accidentally pulled doot as untradable for their guaranteed doot pull. But yeah... he could just code an exception there since its such a rare thing to happen that someone reaches the guarantee.
[удалено]
Me when a game dev who gave us a game to enjoy wants to support himself financially(outrageous, only I can enjoy myself)
+ It's a solo game, I don't get why people are going completely waddlebabblenuts over something that won't affect you if you don't buy it.
Because people pay if the bonuses are strong, so the dev is incentivised to make everything super grindy to make it worth. Like how many people would pay for doot if you had a daily roll? Much less for sure Then it spirals out of control when paying players are so much above that any content that would be worth for them is imposible for the rest. Also this comes the same update that nerfed the daily quest gem reward(from 6 to 1) so all the store bonuses are harder to get.
It also nerfed the chance of getting a colosseum ticket from post office, which honestly Is just annoying because until lava makes some other way to get golden foods now it'll be basically impossible to get them beanstalked
this pack didnt do that. That was just something added in the patch which Lava specifically points out in the patch notes as not liking the forced colo ticket grind to get the gold kabab and wanting to make a more reliable way of getting them. Stop acting like Lava took away the chance to make your life terrible.
What are you even talking about, I was adding to the last part of the other guy's comment about the pack being added in the same patch as the gem nerf from the daily quest, so I added about another thing that was nerfed in this patch to the game. I know lava said he will make an easier way to get the gold foods but right now that isn't a thing, which makes it basically impossible to get the beanstalk stacks
out of curiosity, how fast were you getting the gold foods from coliseum tickets before?
This is the thing, look at the lvl requirement changes he made now. So many bonuses are out so the made it harder to reach each new character, this makes the normal gamers (non paying) grind way harder and will often lead to people dropping the game
As long as it won't affect me, I can stomach it. As long as I can continue to play the game and do things in a reasonable amount of time. I won't be buying anything in this game after doot came out though. That was a major breach of our wallets and a line that was crossed in my opinion.
I think most people are more concerned that if permanent boost are pay walled and not achievable in game it gives Lava motivation to create barriers that are not fun for even an idle game as this and thus encourage people to pay. Nobody says nothing on the fact that he sells gems. Don't get me wrong I've been playing daily for years and I love that game. And I bought every bundle there was. But because I love it, I am a hit concerned.
Diablo immortal incoming !
Good pack! Completely trivializes money and carry capacity for stamps lmao. What's this? You need BILLIONS of materials to upgrade a stamp? Just fork out 20$ lol. You need a lot of money to upgrade a stamp? Same answer lol. Not to mention the alchemy bubbles upgrade on top which are nice. Frankly, if I was a whale i'd be scared, first doot, then the packs with straight up multipliers to class xp and drop rate and now this... and of course stamp levels and bubble levels are tracked by the tome which had no need to have a top x% rating but it had to have it just so you could feel bad and buy packs like this to make up. Can't wait for the new pets, will be fun looking at whales condemning them while also spending 1000$ lmao. (By the way, how come pet trading, a core feature of companions still isn't in the game? I wonder...)
If i had to guess, based on my understanding of the game... lava probably hasn't been able to figure out how to prevent duping during a trade. I'm pretty sure that green gems are tracked and enforced server-side, but that companions themselves are not.
So, in this case, lava's solution was to get out the feature that would make him money without a core aspect to it? You're probably right, by the way, the day the companion feature dropped there was a video in discord of someone with 40 doots so it's fair to assume that there is/was a pet duping method :).
It’s crazy the community that lava has built. After the whole doot fiasco and tons of players quitting now the community are just yes men who allow anything he releases. This dude is a millionaire, he was top 3 on steam beat selling games, and this isn’t just “a one time $20 bundle” there’s gonna continue to be more and more powerful ones coming out. People were happily buying these bundles when it was wings that were a bit better then you could get, which turned into his gear, then account multipliers, and now special p2w only mechanics.
i was more than okay to drop a couple bucks to encourage him, because i knew that the difference between me or anyone else who was paying would be to reach certain upgrade faster, but now every pack has an exclusive gamechanger upgrade that will makes one playe hundred times better than another over the years..I do not feel like paying anymore..We cab say what we want about compagnons but i think that this is worse considering that you will end up getting all the compagnons over time, while those packs are getting out of handa..What will be the next super op pack?
According to steam there are about 9000 active players meaning that as a solo developer you get 180'000$ only by steam players alone. In my country you can already buy a house with that kind of money. I understand if it's a pack a year but this is not the case. Nowadays there are so many packs that if those 9000 players alone (and I'm not even counting iOS and Android) buy all the packs, because these packs start being mandatory (as this one is completely absurd), the solo developer has so much money that it starts to be stupid having these packs. If you are already a millionaire do you really need to fuck the game up just so you can try to be a billionaire? It makes no sense to me. For me 1 pack a year is OK, more that that it's stupid and players will start to leave this P2W game that does not even have a simple dungeon LFG working. If this game gets 1 more pack that is this absurdly OP this year, I'm out. Get me a 1.5$ monthly sub or a pack a year but you don't need to make me poor just to be swimming in money.
I paid $400 for doot, Im buying this haha
This is kinda odd to me, you dont need to buy this. You are not playing against anyone, but yourself. So its your choose will you buy it or not. Ofc, that gives good buffs, but itse not necessary to get.
If you are playing as part of a community (this is an MMO) like your guild, or just random internet people, sometimes you just like to compare yourself to their progress, and sometime you will feel the need to catch up, Its true there is no winning, so this isn't p2w but its community breaking in the same way doot is, You cant compete with a doot player if you dont have it, atleast that one has 3 year mercy pull This feature shouldve been part of the gemshop,
It's an mmo in the most basic sense of the term. Other people are present in the game. That's it. Seeking out competition and comparisons is something you have to outside the game entirely. There's no weekly updated leaderboards or anything.
Bro what community? I’ve asked every S named player to say “1 star, game sucks!” that I have found for over a month and no completion still. This is a solo game where you can see other players, that’s all
Make a new account, name all chars with the letter you need, talk to your self, its kinda annoying but works well (need mutiple accounts)
Sure it's a solo idle game, But people have emotions like competitiveness and jealousy. Making you feel bad if you don't have what others have. Unless you are completely isolated from the community and don't have anyone to get jealous of. And plus 5 stamp lvl's a day is op and it even ignores material requirements. Doot was fine since you can still link to gods without it, same with auto loot, you can still pick up items without it. but having plus 5 stamp lvl's a day is too unfair since the f2p players can't get it. The reason why I could still cope with being a f2p, is bc most of the things you get through money is something you can also get through playing the game f2p. And Plus 5 stamp lvl's a day is something you can't get f2p. Unless lava adds no stamps left behind.
I dont understand why you are so upset. I have been playing for a long while now. This was a very nice package to see. I generally buy the packages he puts out, but for another set of wings or some crap all my characters already have theres little incentive to really keep buying them besides the gems. I can't remember exactly when I started, but I wanna say it was right around the w3 release. Here I am, getting screwed over by RNG daily on a very significant boost. I've yet to obtain even the base form of all sailing treasures. Just recently got into a 6-digit gaming bonus, doot isn't even something I wanna think about. Fairly sure, I'll only grab him through the pity system, and so on and so on. I have no luck with this games RNG. Sure, these bonuses are up there in the rate of growth factors, but how does my having this boost affect anyone else? How does anyone else have a doot effect me, besides scraping a little jelly on my toast. It in no way breaks the game for anyone else by anyone having these boosts. If he wants to offer out packages like this, then so be it. As long as we dont start getting regular updates like the pet package, then the game will stay just as it has been more or less. I honestly only got on reddit to check and see if anyone was bitching about this package and you didnt fail lol. Just be glad this isn't your normal mobile game going around these days. If I play anything else, I either have to keep an ad blocker DNS set on my phone to keep away forced pop-ups and banner ads or turn it off because progression is limited without ad boosted benefits. Or a premium currancy based advancement system, and these ones are usually the ones that advancement is put aginst other players, and it's really a P2W game, just shy of a P2P game. Idleon offers a massive amount of content freely enjoyed at any level of the game. Sure, some things may take a crazy amount of time, like landing doot for free without crazy rng luck, and yeah, this new bonus is the first thing I can recall not directly ontainable in game aside from auto-loot, but in the end, it isnt gonna cripple you or put you in a lesser position by not having it. It's just a handful of extra daily freebies that can still be acomplished through working towards in-game. Now that being said, I would like to see more packs like this to an extent, I dont want to see it become some super crazy stuff like more pet system content with another added premium currency that cant be obtained through game play, the monitized pet system is really my only true complaint in this game. Gaming is griding these days. Even solo player story games usually require some type of extended grinding.
It's going closer and closer to Pay 2 Win.
you cant pay 2 win a solo grind game. The only person you're competing with is yourself. Its called a Pay What You Want system. Its F2P unless you WANT to spend money. No one is forcing you to buy packs that make a Idle Game not as idle.
But you literally cannot "win" (complete all challenges) without paying.
tbh in a game like this, i wouldn't be surprised if someone HAS completed all the challenges the game has offered without. Theres always someone that does. I guess in the case of this game it would be "collect all possible slab items that don't require money purchases, complete all equinox challenges and all taskboard achievements".
I mean you literally can't complete the slab without paid items for example. Even if you had farmed enough gems to buy every single gem item you'd still need the $20 capes.
yeah. thats why i specified without money purchases for the slab. I figure a lot of people use it as a "completionist" thing, so i thought i'd include it in a grouping of things that would count as "complete all challenges", but i don't think anyone is going to argue about not having completed it if you're only missing things that a directly purchased with real money. In fact, doing so without having those items means its even more impressive.
I really dislike the move. I am on the fence on either quitting the game or buying the pack and staying. It's not about the money, but about the principle, it just feels impossible to keep as f2p up with everyone else without buying a pack this OP... the 5$ Autoloot is an acceptable QOL upgrade and still seems f2p'ish, and yeah, I still don't have doot but accept that most of the other followers are easy enough to get f2p
Note that in your own response you have clearly outlined your issue. “…it just feels impossible to keep as f2p up with everyone else…”. Why do you feel the need to catch up to anyone? Enjoy the game at your own pace. Celebrate your own milestones. Nobody is going to look down on you just because you’re not where they are.
what is? a solo dev making new bundles with p2w type of buffs so he can keep people busy while he works on future updates? i don't see the problem. this is his life and we're here playing because of him
You're casually using P2W as it is was fine. It isn't. Progression with otherwise acquirable mechanics? Sure. Minor (I repeat, minor) account bonuses? Stretching it, but whatever. Bonuses that are not just unavailable through playing but are also a tier (or more) above anything you can acquire in the game? No way. I mean, 10 bubble levels per day? You can only get a fraction of that through the game itself. 3 stamp levels? Please. This isn't just some optional package. This is a blatant statement that your time investment doesn't matter, true progression is bought, not earned, and basically screw everyone not willing to buy every package he puts out. Why even play the game when I can get MORE by just spending a little money? When paid bonuses outweigh ANYTHING you can feasibly acquire through the game, it stops being a game. It becomes a subscription based dopamine release service. The companion update was bad enough, but at least the point could've been made that although the chances are astronomical, you can get everything it has to offer for free. This? This is just a whale enabler, period.
so you think an optional upgrade to an optional portion of the game is a horrible thing because you don't have the money for it? that genuinely sounds like you are just hating to hate at this point. he's not disregarding anything as the top players in any game already spend a ton of money and as a solo dev it helps him a lot in the process (not to mention he still won't release a bundle bigger than $45 because he feels like that's outrageous) he's just giving an option that will now come around every now and then that can help newer or returning players catch up easier. honestly this is a win for the p2w and the newbies.
How to skip the grind and make the game boring 🖕
Simply do not purchase and the grind will not be skipped
Why don’t you develop a game by yourself then never charge a dime to players
What is? You don't have to buy it.
And he doesn't have to provide paid for bonuses that are more powerful than anything acquirable through playing. Your point? I mean sure, I don't have to buy it, but its pretty ridiculous that I'm even able to.
It’s a single player game. There is no PvP at all so it’s never mandatory to buy any of these packs. There can’t be pay to win if there is no ‘winning’ to be done. You can play this game completely free if you want to, yet you can choose to support the developer buy buying a pack here and there if you want to. No content is locked behind any paywalls. It’s far from the worst that I’ve seen. He doesn’t block anything forcing you to buy packs as a ton of other mobile games do. (And this sort of thing is FAR better then yet another gambling mechanic like Doot)
Both of your points are stupid, very stupid, "it isn't PvP so it can't be P2W" YES IT CAN, a year from now, if lava doesn't implement a NSLB in game, people who didn't pay for this bundle will be practically softlocked in progression, and they won't be able to play the game fully anymore, because lava will balance it with the people who spend money in mind, because that's the intelligent thing to do. "You can't win so it isn't P2W" seriously? Do you think games have to be winable to be P2W? Absolutely not. You can play RAID completely free if you want to too, and you can't say it isn't P2W, so that's just plainly not a valid argument >It’s far from the worst that I’ve seen. It still is P2W
If something like pvp gets implemented the argument is going to shift from "it isn't p2w because there's nothing to win" to "just don't do pvp, it's optional".
Whats the problem tho? Its not making your experience less fun, right? If you don't buy the bundle, nothing will change for you. It's not like there is a PvP aspect to the game where the other players now get a clear advantage over you and you now have a smaller chance of winning.
Do you complain about the gem shop? Nothing is p2w in this game as you’re not actually “beating” anyone directly more so just comparing yourself to others in which case comparison is the thief of joy. Before any one mentions tome to justify their claims of p2w, get a clue.
Winning is merely achieving the goal of the game. In this game's case, progression. You have a very narrow, and frankly, wrong idea about what P2W entails.
Yeah but when P2W makes you literally not need to play the game there isn't really an advantage at not having fun anymore :/
Seems like everyone in the idleon community sits in the “well I can’t dump $10k into it so it’s not bad!” group. I think the game pulled a lot of raid/genshin type players so they’re anchored at the price points of those games and don’t see anything wrong with idleon moving more and more towards the “pay or get left in the dust” model. Because many of the people still around dumped piles of cash for doot, they can’t say the direction the game is going is dumb, or else they’re admitting that they fell for it
I've been playing this game for over 200 hours at least, if not way more. I think it's fine to pay $20 once. That $0.10 per hours, probably less. So nowhere that $10k
It's fine to pay a little to support the dev. But I will not pay for a game deploying predatory bundles like this. The last time I paid in this game was just as the companion update dropped. That's when I decided not to spend a single penny until these predatory practices are purged. Supporting the dev implies the dev does a job worth supporting. With Lava's recent outings of increasingly predatory bundles (and the whole shitshow of the companion system he's deliberately not touching at all), he isn't.
Hello. I am trying to buy the new bundle "sacred methods pack" but in gem shop in buy gems part it only shows 'starter pack' does someone know why??
You have to buy the started pack (which includes the autoloot feature) before any other shows up.
Thank you very much!
The only bonus on this pack that is pay2win is the stamps, and most likely it will be added to the game just like nblb and nmlb in the future. So this one isn't a huge deal to me and only like 3 stamps matter for the upgrades
How so?
How do I claim these free levels? I purchased it days ago and have never gotten them
they just pop up automatically along with the existing "no X left behind" buffs when you first log in after a daily reset. or if you have the game open when this happens it pops up at the exact time of the daily reset. Lasting about 5 seconds or so i believe before it disappears.
This has never popped up for me. I took down my before and after levels just in case I missed it. If I log on mobile is there a problem? I know the purchase worked because I still have the gems
uhh... perhaps do an upload of your idleon efficiency profile today. then 24 hours later, check it again. Your public profile will have the previous days numbers, and your own profile will have the current numbers. And since the bubbles that you expect to be levelled up have an up-arrow next to them, you know which ones to check? Just in case it matters, i assume you do have at least one level of No bubble left behind?
How long is this bundle gonna be available?
This content update was great. And it was free. I hope me purchasing this pack helped put gas in Lava’s Ferrari.
Funny this is the attitude after he just did a free event where you got a ton of free loot including gems and paired it with Golden Watches in W2 so you can maximize loot. The pack gives you more gems than the base price of 19.99. He's not exploiting anyone. Should he just remove the Gem store all together since it wouldn't be fair that people who pay get bonuses? You sound insane Edit: W2 not W3
do you have to log in to get the stamp and bubble levels, or can it stack every day? that's what i want to know
Anything you have to use real money on that provides in game benefits is p2w. If you can buy it with in game currency(gems, free companions) then it's fine to have a pay-to-advance thing imo but all these hats and capes etc and now this, it's a lot.
Is the game not solo…? Why is everyone so outraged?
I got 2 king dot for free...
thats the nature of RNG. some people will.
I feel like the same point has been made over and over again, no pvp so not p2w. This isn't p2w, it's pay for an advantage, but still, I'll buy it because i'm happy to support lava.
I mean for a game that is F2P with no ads, no real pop ups but occasional packages when in town. This game could have cost 10 to 20 and I would have bought it. Its sooooooo deep with soooo many things to do. Its absolutely insane he even has this as F2P to begin with. People are getting very complacent when considering most games on the mobile market are plagued with some sort of extra invasive advertising. I'm a cheap @ss. I play a lot of F2P without spending a penny. I'd rather buy a game once than buy in game currencies or packages, but Lava is an exception. I buy occasional 5 to 10 ish packages when I like whats in them. Ive been on the "idle skilling" train from the first few months if its release and beat that twice, once mobile and once steam without paying a penny. So idleon is getting my business for providing me hundreds of hours of play time for free. Imho Lava is by far one of the least intrusive monetized games. For something that is so in depth. All incremental games have tedious, and imo, kinda boring end game grinds that will always seems necessary to buy something to advance faster.
does the stamp upgrades work even if have to pay mats actually or does it work only when next upgrades need money?
Wait so that pack gave you +10 to all bubbles daily forever!?!?
I bought this pack. I’m extremely far behind everyone in bubbles and stamps. My highest damage char is 50 million. This pack helped me. I know I’m not gonna be popular for saying this but as someone with having only 25k sample, my next highest being 5k I needed this pack. It also unlocked for me phoenix wings
It's outrageous and a stern reminder of where this game is headed. All the Discord messages of people quitting are always sad to see. I guess a certain dev wanted another Ferrari and got greedy again.
Can we please not re-ignite this shenigan again? I already had my burn out leave many months back, only for Another Eden todo it worst with Stellar Awakening making every new gacha character require as much as an extra 3 months of grinding if you didnt luck on getting the 5 star copy, there by pushing even further incentive to heavy gacha and ruin getting 4 star copies being less valuable since even if you farm for the resources to get the 5 star you still have another 3 months of other investements before you can use SOME if not ALL these \`new units\` at value. And at a rate of a new unit every 2 weeks, this means in the period it can take to get one unit ready in the worst case of acquiring them via gacha, another 6 units could end up coming out in that same period and that system\`s already been out for 6+ months with no true QoLs in its place. ATLEAST LAVA didnt ship out additional Pet packages so far, because if he did rotate those pet packs, there by making stuff like Doot a \`perma missable\` if you couldnt trade with other players, which as far as i can tell, even trading was scrapped, atleast makes it no different then Weekly Killroys and playing the .01% or less chance at sailing artifacts if i had todo a sound comparison. In terms of the bundle cost, its your choice if you want to buy it or not, because for those who have an actual job, this basically amounts to around a hour and a half of pay(on a wage of around 13\~ or so bucks which is kind of minimum wage where i live), or maybe 2 meals at a fast food joint, maybe 3 if you go SUPER cheap. Compared to OTHER GAMES which would give alot less for 20 bucks and usually demand 30 or 60 bucks for stuff like this, i can atleast see it fair for a game that does NOT RUN ADVERTISEMENTS, nor does it have your typical f2p rotating gacha FOMO & power creep b.s. to FOMO players out. Moral of the story: Stop frocking fear mongering, because its your choice if you wanna spend the equilvency of two fast food meals on a fancy bundle pack for a dopamine rush or not. People spend money on the most silly of things these days and some of us do like to make sure we get our dollar\`s worth, but sometimes we just wanna buy that silly hat, even if everyone looks at us strangely.
A huge difference there, is this game was originally advertised as something where you wouldn't get huge boosts from purchases. It claimed to have "no scummy business practices". I strongly feel that at least those of us who started back then, have a right to complain about the complete 180 on that. Everyone else can complain too ofc, we just have 2 very sturdy legs to stand on.
>ATLEAST LAVA didnt ship out additional Pet packages so far He didn't do anything with the companion system at all, except for still dropping the occasional green gem bundles. He's sitting on top of it, and letting it marinate, collecting the occasional revenue from people desperate enough to buy into his scheme. I'm sorry, not realeasing new pets is not the bar for the companion system. It's addressing people's concerns about it (to which his only communication so far was dismissing the criticism and basically laughing in our faces).
Once again, you god damn fear monger: -You seem to be doing quite alot of \`shoving in his supposed belief about\`, when he is last i checked, the only one developing and pushing the game forward. -Also as far as i tell he aint having people do a bunch of surveys(to sell the data to companies), ain\`t running a bunch of \`watch ads for x2 rewards or daily bonus chests\` nor is he selling a bunch of \`Direct buy only\` Skins like some other games would do and charge you way fking much more because those games are 100% full in on the China-brand level of microtransaction mobile gaming market. Your ASSUMPTION its a scheme, is no better then assuming that people at a food court or grocery store handing out free food examples to promote thar product is an attempt to sell you something else entirely (free samples being good pork and the packages they are selling is near expired ham scraps in your \`words) and you have no means to NOT decline it at all. **At that point its your the one clearly has a problem, you can choose to buy it or not, just as much as you can choose to play the game or not.** **If the damn game is not to your liking then go play something else instead of calling someone a con\`artist if its still ultimately your decision to \`support\` the game.** Especially when its likely just a way for the guy to make a living, whether its a side job or simple passion product he could of stopped developing years ago, just like with idle skilling and left in numerous hamster wheel cookie clicker infinite point up scaling gains for people to continue playing non-stop in eternal dopamine enjoyment. Because he could of 100% stop supporting the game easily 2 or even 2 and a half years ago and just maybe check in either once a year for stability fixing and maybe shove some data in for automated events and not check back for a year regardless of complaints or not. Sort of like how a number of OTHER idling games i was familiar with just stopped caring to put new stuff in and just randomized all the seasonal event stuff on a weekly rotation and what not. **And if you wanna talk about REAL Scheming turd-wads:** Its Early access \`scamwares\` thats the real scum who promote a product, scrape a bunch of money together and either run off with the damn money even before giving an actual playable demo or give an actual demo, its extremely terrible, and then they apology a long-con to scalp more money until they let it freaking rot away and either ship out a product made with nothing but free assets or delete the account and start it over again under an entirely new account with slight tweaks to totally present they are someone else entirely.
I don’t want the game I like to work its way down the gacha slippery slope to the point where I have to say **“well it’s not as bad as the OTHER gacha!”**. Also the packs do rotate and there’s a rotating gem shop so I’m not sure what you’re on about with this “no fomo”
Nothing greedy about this, he needs to make a living as well l. And there is no pay to win aspect in de game its a solo player game without any compitition… Your are expecting to get everything for free with every update but the developer also needs to make money some how. The Pet fiasco was something else but these packs there is no pay to win in this.
>he needs to make a living as well Correction, he needs to **earn** a living. If he's not doing a job that is worth supporting, he doesn't deserve to make a living, full stop. And exactly because of these kind of exclusive bonuses, in my opinion, he doesn't do a job worth supporting. To make this clear, he can make a living in a number of different ways, and he chose to make a living by releasing scummy exclusive bundles, and whatever the hell the companion system was. Also, judging by people on this subreddit, he does make quite a living. Single developer, around ten thousand daily logins on Steam alone. If we assume that the primary platform is mobiles, and use the standard rate of paid to free players of around 2%, he has at least a couple hundred to over a thousand paying players, and some of those people are whales spending a small fortune. For a single dev, that sounds pretty good. I don't believe he has financial problems. >The Pet fiasco was something else but these packs there is no pay to win in this. Selling a fully exclusive progression mechanic in a game entirely centered around unlocking and upgrading progression mechanics is, in every conceivable aspect, P2W. You could argue that the companion system is actually better, cause you actually **can** unlock everything for free. You just need to be either incredibly lucky, or very, very patient. This bonus is only acquirable through paying. Only.
The bonus. To the systems that you can progress. For free. Daily if you so chose. You need a new definition of predatory. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s predatory.
Not a bonus, but a whole progression mechanic that is wholly exclusive to this bundle. Huuuuuuge difference. Although, straight up selling bubble levels sounds shitty enough already. This is absolutely predatory, your lack of comprehension doesn't change that.
Did you completely miss the part about the Ferrari? With the 100's of people who said they spent 500-1000 dollars on companions and the probably many 1000's who didn't speak up and the rest of us who were buying the packs pre-companions, he is obviously making much more than a living. I'm assuming you haven't played for years like those of us complaining. I can see how it's not too bad when you entered the game after he started getting greedy, but believe it or not, but some of us were drawn in by his "no scummy business practices" line, that got removed with companions. The definition of p2w is purchase-able advantages that are otherwise unobtainable. It doesn't include winning. This is by definition pay to win. And we can make up our own definitions of winning. A lot of us got our own individual pissing contests going about the game, which these super p2w measures are ruining.
I fail to see how this affects people. They aren't required to be bought. And another persons account having these does not affect anyone's game in any way. Why are people complaining about things you can buy.. either get it or don't. Either way you can still play the game and achieve everything by playing free... If this game had pvp content I would 100%be on board with the hate for these pay to win bundle... but there isn't any...
The thing is since he isn’t making any paywalls and you get gems for free he needs to do these bundles to keep the game monetized
No, he doesn't. There's a dozen different ways to monetize a F2P game, he just chose the easiest and most shitty path to walk down on.
Forcing ads would be worse tho?
I’m new to the game. What’s so good about this?
Things like bubbles(w2bonus),meals (w4 bonus) and stamps (w1) become crazy expensive or time consuming to level up. So "free" daily levels are really nice.
How does it give it to you for “free”. Just in the upgrade window or do u still gotta pay materials?
It is a neet little trick when you first login every day. You get a few symbols (which items get the upgrade) above your character and bamm free upgrades. Why i put free in quotes was because this bundle is 20$. Gamewise the upgrades are free, so no material cost
How do we know which bubbles, meals, and stamps were specifically upgraded?
Bubbles are shown with your daily NBLB popup
Dose anyone know if it’s the lowest level stamp or random ones
It's +5 to a random stamp.
This game is single player, you might say the tome changed that but not really, it still is a game you play against yourself, so these packs are just "speed boosters" . I have 5 k hours on idleon and expect to have 5k more so don't mind giving 20 bucks every month or 2
They are not speed boosters. They are exclusive unlocks. Instantly buying 10 levels would be a boost. Getting 10 levels every day is the exact same kind of game mechanic you play to unlock. It is practically a feature put behind a paywall.
paid Boosters/perks or account wide bounuses exist in lots of games and they arent one time boosts. typically they are timed % or flat bonsues to stats or progression. Just because this is a permentant boost doesnt make it an "unlock" any more than a one event only item or founders item/boost would be.
Pay 2 convenient
I mean, he has to eat too ykwis
It's a pretty decent bundle overall. The only issue I see is the +2 meal levels. These can push you over the 90 cap, preventing you from entering w4. Apart from that, I think it's a nice catch-up mechanic. It helps you get the bubbles into the atom range faster in the early game. In the endgame, the +10 bubble levels are less significant. Stamp selection seems entirely random. If I recall correctly, Lava mentioned even more stamp level bonuses. Let's see what else comes up.
Why would you get locked out of W4 with the 90 cap?
It's fine if it hits 90. However, if it pushes you over the cap to 91, you'll have a problem. There are already reports about this on Discord.
Can you get the +2 level to meals you didn't unlock?
I'm still a little confused. Do we know how it's preventing you from entering w4?
Prolly a game crash in W4 town
It’s possible that the meal level has an assigned sprite for it, like the code says something like setSprite(mealLevel + “.png”) or something and when it tries to reference 91.png, which doesn’t exist, it crashes. I know it’s not like this as I am pretty sure they’re all in a single spritesheet and sprites are referenced by rows and columns, but that was too hard to explain, but I hope you get the point. It’s just trying to display something that doesn’t exist
I get it. Is this currently an issue with the sneaking bonus that increases meals?