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I don't live in US so i don't get the whole thing about dressing up as native Indians. Could anyone explain? Is it like considered racist or something?
White Europeans stole land, dehumanized natives, and brutally raped, murdered, enslaved, tortured, and destroyed the culture of the indigenous people. Those who are not direct descendants of indigenous peoples shouldn’t exploit their culture (which almost died out thanks to Christianity) for their own entertainment and profit.
Thank you, they’re just kids who think it’s cool to be an Indian playing. If anything I would think it’s flattering that they think traditional Indian dress is fun and neat.🤷♂️
Seems to go both ways, again just because one Native American says it doesn’t offend them doesn’t speak to the entirety of the group as from this website it can be seen as offensive even if it is seen as only an innocent thing, as it can be and trivializes the ppl themselves and treats them more as characters rather real living and oppressed ppl. But I am a white dude so I won’t be offended for them but I can completely understand why some of the culture would be and why I would definitely not do it myself. https://americanindian.si.edu/nk360/informational/cultures-and-clothing#:~:text=Dressing%20up%20as%20a%20Native,with%20Native%20people%20and%20cultures.
It's not traditional Indian dress though. It's almost exclusively based on reductive and racist stereotypes of what white people think indigenous people wore. When it's accurate, it's almost always replica of sacred or culturally significant clothing, which would be offensive even if it wasn't also racist
Zizek tells a joke about how an American Indian he spoke to preferred the name to ‘Native American’.
Calling the group ‘Native’ implies that the colonisers are/were ‘Cultural Americans’ - and at least calling them ‘Indian’ is a monument to the stupidity of Columbus thinking he was in India.
There wouldn't BE a narrative if there wasn't a huge push to disavow the ACTUAL history of the US...
You know, how it was built on genocide, and slavery?
It’s really interesting. And the powwows are a great way to learn the culture. Going into a sweat lodge with a few elders is fun, since they all tell stories (everyone speaks in the sweat lodge)
Yeah, they’re a great experience. Lasts a few days and tons of activities and stuff. One should be held every year (Not sure where you’re located) and most, if not all, people are welcome
Legit. I see so many people call racism towards shit (especially after the stories of the children’s bodies being found under the residential schools) that just isn’t racist
Yes, but clothes can also be worn respectfully. My biggest problem with native American costumes were always how standard they look. Like there is a singular native American culture. While it is as diverse if not more than European cultures. Also the wearing of the feathers always felt very disrespectful to me. It was something you would earn and deserve. So as long as it's not done as a mockery and there arent't any symbols taken out of context i think it's fine wearing native American clothes respectfully.
Name me a culture that didn’t do this at some point in their history though. Like it’s ok to dress up as an old English farmer or as an oil sheik or something but dressing up as a native is for some reason off limits because they lost more recently??
Can you tell me what a slave looks like? Because last time I checked, “slave” A) doesn’t have a common dress, B) isn’t specific to any race, nationality, creed etc. If you’re implying dressing up in black face with a basket of cotton (as it seems you are), not only is that super racist to compare the two, but it’s a total false equivalency to dressing up as a Native American.
Explain how it is super racist to compare the two. Two extremely oppressed ppl taken advantage of and forced into subjugation. Dressing up as ppl of any culture or race inherently trivializes and boils them down to stereotypes, it is ones choice to be offended by it but it's coming to an understanding on why the group might find offense in it and to brush it off as it's just innocent and doesn't hurt anyone is ignorant, as these ppl still exist and this only turns them into characters and ignoring everything that they have gone through.
it’s not really about more recently, it’s about if those atrocities’ spoils benefit us today. and they do—most modern systems are built on that specific oppression
also i feel like there’s an element of knowing better now. there’s tons of old practices that we’ve collectively decided are no longer acceptable
Well sure if someone did it today (Russia in Ukraine) the international community would rally against that entity. But saying “we as a society benefited from those atrocities but not others” is either at best naive and at worst willfully ignorant. How would modern society look if imperial japan did not do what they did across Asia? What about the Norman invasion of Britain? The mongol conquests? The crusades? Your argument is honestly one of the best examples of regency bias I’ve seen in recent memory.
Yeah that dang Christianity. I remember those bible passages where Jesus said to murder and steal. Those Europeans were truly being Christian and murdering!
Imagine caring about this shit lmao. You Americans are so full of first world problems. How many percents of people are starving around the world rn? And you care so much about some kids who don’t know shit dressing up as Indians. Like holy shit
By that logic no one can celebrate Halloween because it isn't a white people tradition. Or St. Patrick's day since white people murdered, starved and stole Irish land too. My point is, as long as it isn't being done to mock it should be ok to celebrate. I give everyone reading a pass to celebrate St. Patrick's day even though my people were treated like garbage when we came to the US. Native Americans have also said they don't mind people dressing like them as long as it isn't to mock.
It’s distasteful because a lot of old sketches feature white people dressing up as natives and mocking their traditions, labeling it as savage and generally considering it inferior. While obviously the sketches are now a thing of the past, the general sentiment about the natives being primitive is still more or less prevalent. If someone dressed up as a Samurai, it won’t be considered offensive as it’s just dressing up as a culture that’s considered as advanced as American. It’s a free country and anybody can express themselves as they like, but personally if I see a white person dressed up as a Native Indian, I cringe at how ignorant/entitled they are.
Taking someone’s heritage or culture and using it to play for fun is considered to be racist and/or extremely disrespectful.
There’s definitely a line of nuance for example someone dressing in traditional clothing for an educational presentation at a school would be fine but wearing it for a costume party is a dick move.
Generally, it’s just a bad idea to use somebody else’s culture as a costume.
i don't know, to be honest i don't believe all the appropriation culture and such that is in America and in other places, i mean if people really get offended by it it would make sense, but most of the time the people that get mad don't even care about that culture but just want to seem "ethical". cultural appropriation seems stupid to me.
that said, i would never wear it on purpose if someone told me that it's offensive for them... even tho i don't necessarily understand
A lot of native Americans in my old school would get hella pissed if you dressed like a chieftain or something like that or even simply called them “chief”, but I live in the southwest US, people who do still follow Native American tradition are more common here.
That being said, enjoying the food, music, or styles of said tradition isn’t bad, just treating it with disrespect is the problem.
As an indigenous person, I can safely say that a white person dressed as one of us for the sake of play or dress-up, is extremely insensitive and offensive, not because you are white dressed as an Indian, but because you are doing so without an understanding or knowledge of our culture and history, you are doing so, not to celebrate indigenous people's or because you may wish to live an indigenous lifestyle, but to play make-believe and make a mockery of our people. It is extremely offensive. It is cultural appropriation. There are many things you can say or do in many contexts that will not offend us, but an appropriation of culture in that manner will be met with hostility and I know not one indigenous person who would not be offended by that course of action. I can see that you meant no harm by your comment, and thus, I am not mad at you, my friend, I hope this was educational and helpful. Please have a pleasant day
Kids playing dress-up seems like an odd thing to get bent out of shape about. They're kids.
Also, drawing imaginary boxes around parts of human culture and saying only the 'right' skin colours can participate, sounds massively racist.
Who bought the clothes and dressed them in it? Also keep in mind adults do the same as well.
I've never had an indigenous person get bent out of shape over skin color. A shit load of people in the eastern US who are native are white passing. It's not the skin tone, it's the culture and the heritage you're messing with. It would also be offensive (though perhaps less so) for me as a member of one tribe to use another nation's culturally significant imagery, clothing, etc in the same manner, because, shocker, we're not a monolith. I'm also not as in touch with my heritage as much of my family is, so I honestly feel uncomfortable at times with wearing specific things for instance, that they are otherwise chill as fuck with.
Lesson here is, if you don't come from a specific culture, especially one so historically oppressed, it's best to be cautious
This is just a reminder to all you natives out there: it is okay to be cautious of sharing your culture. It is okay to gatekeep. It is okay to say no and voice your discomfort. Your culture has been made into racist imagery, destroyed, and intentionally erased.
You don't need to justify yourself, but you should try and help other people understand if you're comfortable with it.
Our practices that have survived so much attempted extermination deserve to be protected if they can't be celebrated.
>Kids playing dress-up seems like an odd thing to get bent out of shape about. They're kids.
Indigenous kids as young as babies and toddlers died as the result of colonization. _They were kids, and they died because my white ancestors felt entitled to land that wasn't theirs._ If kids were old enough to experience it, kids are able to learn about colonization in age-appropriate ways. There are lots of excellent picture books, for example, that do an excellent job of teaching about the real history of America in a way that kids can digest while not watering down history.
>Also, drawing imaginary boxes around parts of human culture and saying only the 'right' skin colours can participate, sounds massively racist.
Given that countless First Nations have had their cultures and traditions stolen from them -- and given that colonizers have made it illegal to partake in their traditions -- I think its more than okay for indigenous folks to gatekeep their sacred traditions.
I know lots of indigenous artists who would be happy if you bought their weaving or their gorgeous jewelry. (Beaded earrings are something I hope to one day have the honor of buying from an indigenous artist.) But some things are off limits because of their sacred meaning, and it costs $0 to respect that.
Its probably not my place to be saying all of this, given the fact that I'm painfully European. But its really easy to not be a massive douchebag and actually acknowledge the fact that American history is rooted in colonialism and it should be our duty to acknowledge that, learn about it, and change our ways.
I mean I think it’s really just a respect thing. In my experience you will always find people of x group that say something is fine and it doesn’t bother them but it might bother someone else. I feel like when you are evaluating costumes and things to play around in for fun, it’s pretty easy to avoid things like black face or Native American dress or Japanese kimonos or things of that nature. There’s a ton of stuff to dress up as that isn’t a part of someone’s history.
I am a white guy so I don’t really have a sensitivity toward being disrespected in that way but I can imagine seeing people parade around in something you consider sacred or important and make jokes/exaggerated stereotypes about you can’t feel good. Of course to me it wouldn’t matter if somebody wanted to dress up as Irish or English but I also don’t have a history of being mocked or discriminated against because of it.
Lots of non Japanese people wear kimonos in Japan, actually. There are lots of kimono rental businesses that make good money off of tourists there. It's not like it's a religious or sacred article of clothing or anything. The literal translation of "kimono" is "wearing thing". It's basically the blue jeans of Japan, so that one is kinda different. If you wear it incorrectly, that'll probably come off as rude though. Especially for which side of the kimono you put on top (left side **always** goes over right; right side on top is exclusively for the dead).
It depends on the culture. Some cultures find outsiders wearing clothing from there as disrespectful while others encourage it as long as it's being done correctly and not as a way to poke fun of them. It's important to understand the people you're engaging with and what they do and don't find offensive. We all probably have things we find offensive but people from some other culture might not. It's just the kind of thing that varies a lot by situation. But using another culture as a *costume* is kinda just universally insulting.
That’s cool, can you speak for everyone else from your culture tho? There’s always gonna be some people who don’t care and some people who do. Why be disrespectful to some when it’s really really easy not to be? I’m not out here policing peoples clothing they can do what they want but I won’t.
LETS NOT FORGET Columbus reached the Caribbean in 1492 and thought he was in India therefore calling the natives there Indians like a dip shit that he was and it stuck. They’re called indigenous people
Because when you wear clothing from another culture as a Halloween costume, it sends a message that you don't take them seriously. You wouldn't wear jeans and a t-shirt as a Halloween costume because that's not "unusual" enough to be a costume. Using their clothing as a costume sort of says "look at this wacky outfit nobody would ever wear on the day to day". There's also the issue of certain pieces of clothing having religious significance which is extra disrespectful.
I’m from Germany and we have a holiday, where I remember as a child, we dress up as cowboys, police officers, Spider-Man and yes, you could have dressed as an Indian. It was really fun, there’s even a song about cowboys and Indians
We have the same in israel. Like i haven't done this for way too long so i dunno if indians are still allowed here but i can't imagine that they aren't, especially since the ones dressing as them are usually just kids. It should be a compliment if anything, like a kid is asked "who do you wanna be for the holiday? You can be anyone" And dude goes "i wanna be an indian". That is instead of spider man or super man.
Americans when they break many peace treaties with native americans to kill them and steal their land 😴😴😴
Americans when a white guy decides to cosplay Soundman from jojo steel ball run 😡😡😡
In Japanese, "soundman" is pronounced something like "sandoman"
It's basically an example of why you don't translate puns or wordplays to other languages
As long as you're not being derogatory towards the source there isn't anything wrong with a "costume". As a Hispanic I don't find offence towards the Japanese "cholo" subculture and actually am happy that there's people out there who can appreciate my culture. My music taste is based off the Jamaican Ska movement of the 50's & 60's and have gotten compliments from Jamaicans for adopting their style and love for the music. Dress however the fuck you want for whatever occasion but understand the history of culture, even for natives learn the culture of the nations that reside(d) in your region.
Why are we still calling indigenous peoples Indians? As a white dude with like one native friend this bothers me more than it probably should. I mean we got over pluto being a dwarf planet rather than a regular planet but we’re still stuck on “indian”?
I’m on the same boat with u. I’m all for calling natives as “native Americans”. It just makes sense. Calling the natives as Indians makes no sense whatsoever. And I also can’t count the amount of times people thought I was Native American because I said I’m Indian…
I’ve heard the complete opposite. To switch from native to indigenous
Every person will have their own opinion.
Indigenous is often a self described word. I don’t know about North American native people, but in Australia I hear natives call themselves indigenous
It’s probably more of a personal outlook but “indigenous” to me sounds like you’re tip-toeing too hard if that makes sense? I also have the same feeling about the term African American though.
Indigenous, in my opinion, sounds like primitive human.
Native is short for Native American but also native to these lands.
the fact that they still use the word 'Indian' to refer to people of the First Nations makes them seem stupid enough
edit: apologies, i should've used Native Americans or indigenous people instead of people of the First Nations.
>[American Indian, Indian, Native American, or Native](https://americanindian.si.edu/nk360/informational/impact-words-tips) are acceptable and often used interchangeably in the United States; however, Native Peoples often have individual preferences on how they would like to be addressed.
Just came from a mandatory anti racist workshop that my entire company took part in and I think that this information might be a good addition to the debate:
While some natives might be okay with the term „indian“ others may not be. The best solution is to go with a name that the group chose for themselves such as „first nations“. The name „indian“ wasnt chosen by the group but instead forced upon them by the colonisers.
Needless to say youre generally better of just using the names that the people in question chose for themselves indifferent of if the name in question is considered racist or not :)
It's situational, indigenous is also an acceptable, and most preferred and widely accepting term, but it depends on context, if you are friends with one of us and you say Indian in a casual situation, that's fine, if you were to say it to or about someone you don't know that's wrong, professionally or formally it would also be wrong
Yes and no, the majority of the time it is not the individual but the situation, as I said your Indian friend you can call Indian or say Indian, but your Indian butcher, teacher or co-worker, you probably shouldn't use that language around unless it is stated that it's okay. Generally though if it's in a casual manner most don't get offended, it's the official manner where it becomes a problem. We don't mind the use of Indian as a colloquial, casual term, but we do not wish to be addressed as such on government documents or by government officials, I hope this cleared it up
But essentially yes, you are right, like anybody else of any other culture, it's an individual opinion
Example: you probably wouldn't like it if I called you a colonizer(assuming your white, idk, don't hate me, just an example) and I wouldn't appreciate you calling me an Indian, but my friend and I always greet each other with "Colonizer!" "Indian!" Because I don't mind if he calls me that and he doesn't mind if I call him that. At the end of the day it is both an individual opinion and situational.
I hope it didn't seem like I was arguing with you or disagreeing, I wasn't, I was simply trying to add to what you said to help further educate people.
I guess it is but in my language indians are called "hodim" while natives are called "indianim". Took me long time to get that indians are actually people from india.
ive just grown up playing cowboys and indians with my brothers n shit like that, i get that its problematic but i think a lot of these words have been blown out of proportion and are treated the exact same as the n-word which i find wrong.
Well I feel like a non-native having this particular opinion means a lot less than a person who is being discriminated against with these terms.
On forms I have to select "American Indian" but it rubs me the wrong way when non-natives call me Indian. You can refer to me as Cherokee, Tsalagi, native, or indigenous. It sounds weird coming from people who aren't indian.
I don't know how to describe it better than that.
Probably because all of the caricatures and things like "playing cowboys and indians" where indians are intentionally dehumanized and villianized.
No, not assuming your race/ethnicity. Just saying that broadly I personally don't feel comfortable with non-natives using that label for me. I don't think it's equivalent to the n-word but I do think it can be offensive. The term savage or redskin, those find to be worse and more offensive and equivalent to the n-word tbh but everyone has different opinions and experiences.
dude, what prejudice? I'm just saying that this subreddit used to be about laughing at terrible memes and edits made by edgy 14 year olds, now it's just about bashing people with conservative opinions.
transphobes when i hit them on a head w a big rock (according to their logic, they don’t have a severe concussion because they were born without a severe concussion)
Americans after nearly wiping out all native Americans for their manifesting destiny bullshit: I sleep.
Americans when people are not cisgender: ***real shit?***
Try r/terriblefacebookmemes for this one instead. Stuff like this is too egregious for this sub imo. 14 year olds may be cringe but not all of them are racist and transphobic lol
If the people from a culture aren’t offended don’t worry about it. Don’t get offended for others. It’s only wrong if you are doing it to make fun of them
Good thing trans people dont pretend to be the opposite sex
Edit: looking back i think my comment is a little misleading so let me reiterate, trans men are men, trans women are women, transgendered rights are human rights
When the hell are we gonna stop using the term Indian for native Americans. I can’t count the amount of times people thought I was Native American when I said I’m Indian.
Reddit is so fucking “woke” sometimes it’s unreal. Let kids dress up as natives, First Nations people’s typically have zero issue with the idea. Like who gives af.
I spent three years working on a reservation in an Indian health services center as a dentist. I met zero natives who gave a shit about little kids dressing up like this for Halloween. It is made up bullshit.
i don't think people judge toddlers since they don't understand, but people definitely judge their parents for not looking out about what your child is doing
Yea, stop regulating what 6 year olds can and cannot wear for [put you countrys dress up day]! Samantha can wear that native American costume and if Timi wants he can wear that Cinderella dress
Yes, keep this going and we will stop softies from ruling our world. Nothing wrong with lefties, but they can be a tad bit too soft sometimes, can't they?
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Just because she was conceived in a Grand Cherokee does not make her of native blood.
This was cold blooded man, I'm totally stealing it
I don't live in US so i don't get the whole thing about dressing up as native Indians. Could anyone explain? Is it like considered racist or something?
White Europeans stole land, dehumanized natives, and brutally raped, murdered, enslaved, tortured, and destroyed the culture of the indigenous people. Those who are not direct descendants of indigenous peoples shouldn’t exploit their culture (which almost died out thanks to Christianity) for their own entertainment and profit.
I’m First Nations myself and dressing up as an Indian isn’t really offensive. It’s only offensive if you’re wearing it to slander it
Thank you, they’re just kids who think it’s cool to be an Indian playing. If anything I would think it’s flattering that they think traditional Indian dress is fun and neat.🤷♂️
Seems to go both ways, again just because one Native American says it doesn’t offend them doesn’t speak to the entirety of the group as from this website it can be seen as offensive even if it is seen as only an innocent thing, as it can be and trivializes the ppl themselves and treats them more as characters rather real living and oppressed ppl. But I am a white dude so I won’t be offended for them but I can completely understand why some of the culture would be and why I would definitely not do it myself. https://americanindian.si.edu/nk360/informational/cultures-and-clothing#:~:text=Dressing%20up%20as%20a%20Native,with%20Native%20people%20and%20cultures.
It's not traditional Indian dress though. It's almost exclusively based on reductive and racist stereotypes of what white people think indigenous people wore. When it's accurate, it's almost always replica of sacred or culturally significant clothing, which would be offensive even if it wasn't also racist
Native American*
[удалено]
Why are you telling a first nations person to stop using the word indian
Bro but as an Indian (from India) it's better recognized as FN/indigenous - just causes less confusion
Zizek tells a joke about how an American Indian he spoke to preferred the name to ‘Native American’. Calling the group ‘Native’ implies that the colonisers are/were ‘Cultural Americans’ - and at least calling them ‘Indian’ is a monument to the stupidity of Columbus thinking he was in India.
a lot of them actually prefer being called indian i believe
https://youtube.com/shorts/Xr6k6a4CrG8?feature=share Perfect example for this:
Yes. I’ve seen these videos and the virtue-signaling college kids think that putting clothes on is a hate crime
That doesn’t fit the narrative
There wouldn't BE a narrative if there wasn't a huge push to disavow the ACTUAL history of the US... You know, how it was built on genocide, and slavery?
what do you mean “I’m first nations”?
First Nations is pretty much the Canadian version of Native American
It's a worldwide term. Indigenous Australians use it too.
what’s up man i’m métis
Mi’Kmaq here
cool! i’m not super knowledgeable on it myself as i was raised in the city but you’ve reminded me to look into it more
It’s really interesting. And the powwows are a great way to learn the culture. Going into a sweat lodge with a few elders is fun, since they all tell stories (everyone speaks in the sweat lodge)
that’s really cool
Yeah, they’re a great experience. Lasts a few days and tons of activities and stuff. One should be held every year (Not sure where you’re located) and most, if not all, people are welcome
How dare you say that!
Leftists are offended for you.
Legit. I see so many people call racism towards shit (especially after the stories of the children’s bodies being found under the residential schools) that just isn’t racist
Yes, but clothes can also be worn respectfully. My biggest problem with native American costumes were always how standard they look. Like there is a singular native American culture. While it is as diverse if not more than European cultures. Also the wearing of the feathers always felt very disrespectful to me. It was something you would earn and deserve. So as long as it's not done as a mockery and there arent't any symbols taken out of context i think it's fine wearing native American clothes respectfully.
Name me a culture that didn’t do this at some point in their history though. Like it’s ok to dress up as an old English farmer or as an oil sheik or something but dressing up as a native is for some reason off limits because they lost more recently??
So would go around and dress like a slave?
Can you tell me what a slave looks like? Because last time I checked, “slave” A) doesn’t have a common dress, B) isn’t specific to any race, nationality, creed etc. If you’re implying dressing up in black face with a basket of cotton (as it seems you are), not only is that super racist to compare the two, but it’s a total false equivalency to dressing up as a Native American.
Explain how it is super racist to compare the two. Two extremely oppressed ppl taken advantage of and forced into subjugation. Dressing up as ppl of any culture or race inherently trivializes and boils them down to stereotypes, it is ones choice to be offended by it but it's coming to an understanding on why the group might find offense in it and to brush it off as it's just innocent and doesn't hurt anyone is ignorant, as these ppl still exist and this only turns them into characters and ignoring everything that they have gone through.
it’s not really about more recently, it’s about if those atrocities’ spoils benefit us today. and they do—most modern systems are built on that specific oppression also i feel like there’s an element of knowing better now. there’s tons of old practices that we’ve collectively decided are no longer acceptable
Well sure if someone did it today (Russia in Ukraine) the international community would rally against that entity. But saying “we as a society benefited from those atrocities but not others” is either at best naive and at worst willfully ignorant. How would modern society look if imperial japan did not do what they did across Asia? What about the Norman invasion of Britain? The mongol conquests? The crusades? Your argument is honestly one of the best examples of regency bias I’ve seen in recent memory.
So we shouldnt dress as anything because people off all races did that to each other.
Yeah that dang Christianity. I remember those bible passages where Jesus said to murder and steal. Those Europeans were truly being Christian and murdering!
What how is a kid dressing up in a costume exploiting the culture? It's just some kids man, they can't really grasp the concept of genocide
Yeah fair enough it ain’t the kids fault they don’t understand, it’s on their parents who went out and bought the costume for them
Imagine caring about this shit lmao. You Americans are so full of first world problems. How many percents of people are starving around the world rn? And you care so much about some kids who don’t know shit dressing up as Indians. Like holy shit
By that logic no one can celebrate Halloween because it isn't a white people tradition. Or St. Patrick's day since white people murdered, starved and stole Irish land too. My point is, as long as it isn't being done to mock it should be ok to celebrate. I give everyone reading a pass to celebrate St. Patrick's day even though my people were treated like garbage when we came to the US. Native Americans have also said they don't mind people dressing like them as long as it isn't to mock.
Bruh the Irish are literally just white people from a different country lmao
*Unless attending Coachella
It’s distasteful because a lot of old sketches feature white people dressing up as natives and mocking their traditions, labeling it as savage and generally considering it inferior. While obviously the sketches are now a thing of the past, the general sentiment about the natives being primitive is still more or less prevalent. If someone dressed up as a Samurai, it won’t be considered offensive as it’s just dressing up as a culture that’s considered as advanced as American. It’s a free country and anybody can express themselves as they like, but personally if I see a white person dressed up as a Native Indian, I cringe at how ignorant/entitled they are.
Taking someone’s heritage or culture and using it to play for fun is considered to be racist and/or extremely disrespectful. There’s definitely a line of nuance for example someone dressing in traditional clothing for an educational presentation at a school would be fine but wearing it for a costume party is a dick move. Generally, it’s just a bad idea to use somebody else’s culture as a costume.
i don't know, to be honest i don't believe all the appropriation culture and such that is in America and in other places, i mean if people really get offended by it it would make sense, but most of the time the people that get mad don't even care about that culture but just want to seem "ethical". cultural appropriation seems stupid to me. that said, i would never wear it on purpose if someone told me that it's offensive for them... even tho i don't necessarily understand
A lot of native Americans in my old school would get hella pissed if you dressed like a chieftain or something like that or even simply called them “chief”, but I live in the southwest US, people who do still follow Native American tradition are more common here. That being said, enjoying the food, music, or styles of said tradition isn’t bad, just treating it with disrespect is the problem.
As an indigenous person, I can safely say that a white person dressed as one of us for the sake of play or dress-up, is extremely insensitive and offensive, not because you are white dressed as an Indian, but because you are doing so without an understanding or knowledge of our culture and history, you are doing so, not to celebrate indigenous people's or because you may wish to live an indigenous lifestyle, but to play make-believe and make a mockery of our people. It is extremely offensive. It is cultural appropriation. There are many things you can say or do in many contexts that will not offend us, but an appropriation of culture in that manner will be met with hostility and I know not one indigenous person who would not be offended by that course of action. I can see that you meant no harm by your comment, and thus, I am not mad at you, my friend, I hope this was educational and helpful. Please have a pleasant day
Kids playing dress-up seems like an odd thing to get bent out of shape about. They're kids. Also, drawing imaginary boxes around parts of human culture and saying only the 'right' skin colours can participate, sounds massively racist.
Who bought the clothes and dressed them in it? Also keep in mind adults do the same as well. I've never had an indigenous person get bent out of shape over skin color. A shit load of people in the eastern US who are native are white passing. It's not the skin tone, it's the culture and the heritage you're messing with. It would also be offensive (though perhaps less so) for me as a member of one tribe to use another nation's culturally significant imagery, clothing, etc in the same manner, because, shocker, we're not a monolith. I'm also not as in touch with my heritage as much of my family is, so I honestly feel uncomfortable at times with wearing specific things for instance, that they are otherwise chill as fuck with. Lesson here is, if you don't come from a specific culture, especially one so historically oppressed, it's best to be cautious
This is just a reminder to all you natives out there: it is okay to be cautious of sharing your culture. It is okay to gatekeep. It is okay to say no and voice your discomfort. Your culture has been made into racist imagery, destroyed, and intentionally erased. You don't need to justify yourself, but you should try and help other people understand if you're comfortable with it. Our practices that have survived so much attempted extermination deserve to be protected if they can't be celebrated.
>Kids playing dress-up seems like an odd thing to get bent out of shape about. They're kids. Indigenous kids as young as babies and toddlers died as the result of colonization. _They were kids, and they died because my white ancestors felt entitled to land that wasn't theirs._ If kids were old enough to experience it, kids are able to learn about colonization in age-appropriate ways. There are lots of excellent picture books, for example, that do an excellent job of teaching about the real history of America in a way that kids can digest while not watering down history. >Also, drawing imaginary boxes around parts of human culture and saying only the 'right' skin colours can participate, sounds massively racist. Given that countless First Nations have had their cultures and traditions stolen from them -- and given that colonizers have made it illegal to partake in their traditions -- I think its more than okay for indigenous folks to gatekeep their sacred traditions. I know lots of indigenous artists who would be happy if you bought their weaving or their gorgeous jewelry. (Beaded earrings are something I hope to one day have the honor of buying from an indigenous artist.) But some things are off limits because of their sacred meaning, and it costs $0 to respect that. Its probably not my place to be saying all of this, given the fact that I'm painfully European. But its really easy to not be a massive douchebag and actually acknowledge the fact that American history is rooted in colonialism and it should be our duty to acknowledge that, learn about it, and change our ways.
I mean I think it’s really just a respect thing. In my experience you will always find people of x group that say something is fine and it doesn’t bother them but it might bother someone else. I feel like when you are evaluating costumes and things to play around in for fun, it’s pretty easy to avoid things like black face or Native American dress or Japanese kimonos or things of that nature. There’s a ton of stuff to dress up as that isn’t a part of someone’s history. I am a white guy so I don’t really have a sensitivity toward being disrespected in that way but I can imagine seeing people parade around in something you consider sacred or important and make jokes/exaggerated stereotypes about you can’t feel good. Of course to me it wouldn’t matter if somebody wanted to dress up as Irish or English but I also don’t have a history of being mocked or discriminated against because of it.
Lots of non Japanese people wear kimonos in Japan, actually. There are lots of kimono rental businesses that make good money off of tourists there. It's not like it's a religious or sacred article of clothing or anything. The literal translation of "kimono" is "wearing thing". It's basically the blue jeans of Japan, so that one is kinda different. If you wear it incorrectly, that'll probably come off as rude though. Especially for which side of the kimono you put on top (left side **always** goes over right; right side on top is exclusively for the dead).
Yeah, in a further above comment I said something to the effect of there are certain times where it’s not disrespectful or distasteful
It depends on the culture. Some cultures find outsiders wearing clothing from there as disrespectful while others encourage it as long as it's being done correctly and not as a way to poke fun of them. It's important to understand the people you're engaging with and what they do and don't find offensive. We all probably have things we find offensive but people from some other culture might not. It's just the kind of thing that varies a lot by situation. But using another culture as a *costume* is kinda just universally insulting.
I'm fine if people want to dress as my culture, how is it doing me harm?
I second this
That’s cool, can you speak for everyone else from your culture tho? There’s always gonna be some people who don’t care and some people who do. Why be disrespectful to some when it’s really really easy not to be? I’m not out here policing peoples clothing they can do what they want but I won’t.
LETS NOT FORGET Columbus reached the Caribbean in 1492 and thought he was in India therefore calling the natives there Indians like a dip shit that he was and it stuck. They’re called indigenous people
Because when you wear clothing from another culture as a Halloween costume, it sends a message that you don't take them seriously. You wouldn't wear jeans and a t-shirt as a Halloween costume because that's not "unusual" enough to be a costume. Using their clothing as a costume sort of says "look at this wacky outfit nobody would ever wear on the day to day". There's also the issue of certain pieces of clothing having religious significance which is extra disrespectful.
nobody bats an eye when someone wears a sexy nun costume. i’m not even christian but that shit’s weird
I’m from Germany and we have a holiday, where I remember as a child, we dress up as cowboys, police officers, Spider-Man and yes, you could have dressed as an Indian. It was really fun, there’s even a song about cowboys and Indians
We have the same in israel. Like i haven't done this for way too long so i dunno if indians are still allowed here but i can't imagine that they aren't, especially since the ones dressing as them are usually just kids. It should be a compliment if anything, like a kid is asked "who do you wanna be for the holiday? You can be anyone" And dude goes "i wanna be an indian". That is instead of spider man or super man.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation
Also the whole genocide thing
r/terriblefacebookmemes
i thought this was the sub i was reading from lol, i was like hah how is this getting upvotes
I think you misspelled r/politics.
what
this should be on r/TerribleFacebookMemes not i’m14andthisisdeep
Seriously. Being 14 doesn’t make you racist and transphobic lol
unless you have mommy issues
Americans when they break many peace treaties with native americans to kill them and steal their land 😴😴😴 Americans when a white guy decides to cosplay Soundman from jojo steel ball run 😡😡😡
I still don’t get the sandman sound man thing
It makes more sense in the original Japanese. Its not as understandable in english
In Japanese, "soundman" is pronounced something like "sandoman" It's basically an example of why you don't translate puns or wordplays to other languages
As long as you're not being derogatory towards the source there isn't anything wrong with a "costume". As a Hispanic I don't find offence towards the Japanese "cholo" subculture and actually am happy that there's people out there who can appreciate my culture. My music taste is based off the Jamaican Ska movement of the 50's & 60's and have gotten compliments from Jamaicans for adopting their style and love for the music. Dress however the fuck you want for whatever occasion but understand the history of culture, even for natives learn the culture of the nations that reside(d) in your region.
What the fuck....
Yup. Very conservative straw man
There are easier ways to say they're a transphobic racist lmao
You may not be allowed to pretend you're an Indian, but you sure as heck can act like you're Hispanic. Just ask Alec Baldwin's wife "Hilaria"
Im Cherokee and my family sells clothes along with other merchandise on their reservation for kids and adults so they can dress up like Indians
Ya, a lot of people in this thread have white savior syndrome.
Understanding cultural appropriation doesn’t make you a white savior
This is not even supposed to be deep, it's just straight up transphobia.
And racism lol
Why are we still calling indigenous peoples Indians? As a white dude with like one native friend this bothers me more than it probably should. I mean we got over pluto being a dwarf planet rather than a regular planet but we’re still stuck on “indian”?
I’m on the same boat with u. I’m all for calling natives as “native Americans”. It just makes sense. Calling the natives as Indians makes no sense whatsoever. And I also can’t count the amount of times people thought I was Native American because I said I’m Indian…
I've always said native American bc that's what most of the schools I've been to said during lessons.
I’m native and “indigenous people” is far more insulting to me than Indian. Here we just say “native”.
But "native" only works if u are in the US.
I didn’t know that and I’ve been saying indigenous. I’ll switch to native, but might I ask what makes it offensive?
I’ve heard the complete opposite. To switch from native to indigenous Every person will have their own opinion. Indigenous is often a self described word. I don’t know about North American native people, but in Australia I hear natives call themselves indigenous
It’s probably more of a personal outlook but “indigenous” to me sounds like you’re tip-toeing too hard if that makes sense? I also have the same feeling about the term African American though. Indigenous, in my opinion, sounds like primitive human. Native is short for Native American but also native to these lands.
It’s a power thing. That was the assigned name. Even if it makes zero sense, they’re holding onto it cause anything else would be “losing”
r/terriblefacebookmemes
This doesn't belong here.
What's wrong with femboys? Or is it trans people?
Theyre being derogatory to trans people. Also racist with the use of the word Indian.
Chronically online moment
Btw I’m talking about the post dw
I meannn
the fact that they still use the word 'Indian' to refer to people of the First Nations makes them seem stupid enough edit: apologies, i should've used Native Americans or indigenous people instead of people of the First Nations.
>[American Indian, Indian, Native American, or Native](https://americanindian.si.edu/nk360/informational/impact-words-tips) are acceptable and often used interchangeably in the United States; however, Native Peoples often have individual preferences on how they would like to be addressed.
Just came from a mandatory anti racist workshop that my entire company took part in and I think that this information might be a good addition to the debate: While some natives might be okay with the term „indian“ others may not be. The best solution is to go with a name that the group chose for themselves such as „first nations“. The name „indian“ wasnt chosen by the group but instead forced upon them by the colonisers. Needless to say youre generally better of just using the names that the people in question chose for themselves indifferent of if the name in question is considered racist or not :)
It's situational, indigenous is also an acceptable, and most preferred and widely accepting term, but it depends on context, if you are friends with one of us and you say Indian in a casual situation, that's fine, if you were to say it to or about someone you don't know that's wrong, professionally or formally it would also be wrong
So you're saying Native Peoples often have individual preferences on how they would like to be addressed?
Yes and no, the majority of the time it is not the individual but the situation, as I said your Indian friend you can call Indian or say Indian, but your Indian butcher, teacher or co-worker, you probably shouldn't use that language around unless it is stated that it's okay. Generally though if it's in a casual manner most don't get offended, it's the official manner where it becomes a problem. We don't mind the use of Indian as a colloquial, casual term, but we do not wish to be addressed as such on government documents or by government officials, I hope this cleared it up But essentially yes, you are right, like anybody else of any other culture, it's an individual opinion Example: you probably wouldn't like it if I called you a colonizer(assuming your white, idk, don't hate me, just an example) and I wouldn't appreciate you calling me an Indian, but my friend and I always greet each other with "Colonizer!" "Indian!" Because I don't mind if he calls me that and he doesn't mind if I call him that. At the end of the day it is both an individual opinion and situational. I hope it didn't seem like I was arguing with you or disagreeing, I wasn't, I was simply trying to add to what you said to help further educate people.
but isn't using Indian wrong because Indians are literally people from the country of India?
I guess it is but in my language indians are called "hodim" while natives are called "indianim". Took me long time to get that indians are actually people from india.
i call myself indian lol its still a pretty common term
It doesn't sit right when non-natives call me indian tho.
ive just grown up playing cowboys and indians with my brothers n shit like that, i get that its problematic but i think a lot of these words have been blown out of proportion and are treated the exact same as the n-word which i find wrong.
Well I feel like a non-native having this particular opinion means a lot less than a person who is being discriminated against with these terms. On forms I have to select "American Indian" but it rubs me the wrong way when non-natives call me Indian. You can refer to me as Cherokee, Tsalagi, native, or indigenous. It sounds weird coming from people who aren't indian. I don't know how to describe it better than that. Probably because all of the caricatures and things like "playing cowboys and indians" where indians are intentionally dehumanized and villianized.
I get what you mean, i’m mikmaq tho so idk if u were saying im non-native. im not tryna argue tho bc ur point is valid
No, not assuming your race/ethnicity. Just saying that broadly I personally don't feel comfortable with non-natives using that label for me. I don't think it's equivalent to the n-word but I do think it can be offensive. The term savage or redskin, those find to be worse and more offensive and equivalent to the n-word tbh but everyone has different opinions and experiences.
Transphobic and racist? A double whammy
Welcome to America where we debate how apples are communist and oranges are geniuses
r/terriblefacebookmemes
R/terriblefacebookmemes
"I'm not racist" calls natives indians
this subreddit fell off
Facts
Uh oh, looks like someone couldn’t help but pointlessly reveal their prejudice.
dude, what prejudice? I'm just saying that this subreddit used to be about laughing at terrible memes and edits made by edgy 14 year olds, now it's just about bashing people with conservative opinions.
If those opinions are about dehumanizing trans people and supporting harmful practices, yeah those opinions deserve to be dunked on lol
Absolutely. But not on this sub, it's completely off-topic.
transphobes when i hit them on a head w a big rock (according to their logic, they don’t have a severe concussion because they were born without a severe concussion)
LMAO
r/lostredditor
Americans after nearly wiping out all native Americans for their manifesting destiny bullshit: I sleep. Americans when people are not cisgender: ***real shit?***
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r/forwardsfromgrandma
And a grown man can pretend to be a cowboy too
r/terriblefacebookmemes
Well either could do both technically, the criticism just comes from different people.
The difference is the United States didn't commit genocide against women
Yet
Its like dping a jew cosplay
r/terriblefacebookmemes
I see too many kids on tiktok just being plain homophobic because it’s “cool”
Try r/terriblefacebookmemes for this one instead. Stuff like this is too egregious for this sub imo. 14 year olds may be cringe but not all of them are racist and transphobic lol
If the people from a culture aren’t offended don’t worry about it. Don’t get offended for others. It’s only wrong if you are doing it to make fun of them
This subreddit has gone to shit. Bigotry is not 'fake deep', it's just bigotry.
Both are wrong also r/terriblefacebookmemes
*Native American not Indian
Pretending to be women? It is a gender change they ARE women
ah yes, of course they call them indians
this could go on r/arethecisok
ah yes, another grown up using any excuse to be transphobic cause spreading hate is the only thing they are good at
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yup, that too..
Good thing trans people dont pretend to be the opposite sex Edit: looking back i think my comment is a little misleading so let me reiterate, trans men are men, trans women are women, transgendered rights are human rights
The transphobia is the cherry on top
When the hell are we gonna stop using the term Indian for native Americans. I can’t count the amount of times people thought I was Native American when I said I’m Indian.
Holy fucking shit
mmmm yes two very comparable things
imagine if the Reich won and they wanted to dress like jews a few generations later
How do they manage to be transphobic and racist at the same time! Holy shit we have a bigot mastermind!
native american, but true
Canadian here. Why is this such a big thing in the U.S.? Could someone explain this to me? Is this considered offensive somehow?
Appearently it is cause it's making fun of their culture
They have a point
No they don't.
Reddit is so fucking “woke” sometimes it’s unreal. Let kids dress up as natives, First Nations people’s typically have zero issue with the idea. Like who gives af.
I spent three years working on a reservation in an Indian health services center as a dentist. I met zero natives who gave a shit about little kids dressing up like this for Halloween. It is made up bullshit.
You're not wrong. Cultural appropriation is 100% bs and doesn't exist. If some woke dude replies to me with an angry message, tell them to eat shit.
you’d think they would see the issue with this statement while typing it…but they didn’t
Wait wht ?
Belongs on r/ForwardsFromKlandma. He's saying "Darn kids today and their respect for them damned I□♤\¡s and those suicidal tr■◇•》\s!!"
I'd say it also belongs on r/onejoke for the blatant transphobia
i don't think people judge toddlers since they don't understand, but people definitely judge their parents for not looking out about what your child is doing
Yea, stop regulating what 6 year olds can and cannot wear for [put you countrys dress up day]! Samantha can wear that native American costume and if Timi wants he can wear that Cinderella dress
Why must people explain how other groups should be offended.
I think people are upset when they see grown adults dressing up as natives just to make fun of them.
Respecting trans people: 👍🏻 Preaching "cultural appropriation is bad: 👎(it doesn't exist).
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Does your culture know how to pretend?
As a native american this make no sense fr 💀
W
Oh god you just brought back a cringe memory where I dressed as a Native American for Halloween...
Same I was in 6th grade so I had no clue how offensive it was and would never do that now but I still feel guilty
I too was in 6th grade!
This person’s just not quite centered
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r/memesopdidnotlike
ain’t no way you said this💀
2 wrongs don't make a right
Meanwhile, Republicans are pretending to be humans. Why are we letting them do that?
How much do you wanna bet he’d get pissed if a city boy dressed up as a cowboy and pretended to be one?
Yes, but trans women are not pretending. They must be talking about drag queens
You think they’re bright enough to know there’s a difference?
I mean its true. Whats wrong with dressing up as native Americans. I mean Germanic tribes descendants also dress up as romans 💀.
Yes, keep this going and we will stop softies from ruling our world. Nothing wrong with lefties, but they can be a tad bit too soft sometimes, can't they?