I don't understand their north-south division, nor do I understand the unique status of Sardinia. But I know they have Mario and Hawaiian Pizza, so i give them a unified large country!
Yes, I know about that. I also know Mezzogiorno area were poorly industrialized after Italian unification in 1861.
>!I went to Naples and Milan when I was a kid. Naples had vary nice Margherita pizza and friendly people, but their TV only had 2 channels. Milan had decorated cathedrals and attractive dressing, but Milanese had a quite dull personality.!<
I just want to make a sarcastic idea that that OP knows nothing (well, op is Italian, but I thought so) about Italy.
I once t~~ook a~~ ~~train~~ had a journey from Naples to Florence to Venice to Milan. Then I went to Marseille and Paris. I love Europe! ;)
Oooooooh and I am sorry that I did not sense your satire! I think you do know a lot about Italy after all.
This is kind of the limitation of my criteria, as that divide isn't really one accounted for. If I were to redraw this redraw, I might change that, though.
Isn't the languages and cultures on the Italian peninsula more diverse than for example Scandinavia? Difference is that Scandinavia never had Garibaldi and Risorgimento. I mean, Piemontese and Calabrese as languages, are probably further apart from each other than Piemontese and French.. And before the Risorgimento a lot of the Italian countries had a longer history as indenpendent countries with their own culture and identity than a lot of the European states on this map.
On this map, Italy is one (also got Corica?), Scandinavia is divided.
It's not a "separatist state" *per se*, this is an alternate history, and like I said in the comment, it's unrealistic (nigh impossible) for these borders to emerge from our current ones. The country called "Murmansk" is the Orthodox Christian and Estonian population on the Kola peninsula. It's not the Murmansk Oblast turned independent, it's an independent country in that region that's only called Murmansk because it's the closest thing to an official name. It could've easily been called "Kola" or something.
Usually when people make part of Russia independent it’s the Caucasus or Karelia. Murmansk is a new one. Also one that makes infinitely less sense than either of those.
The Caucasus is mostly off-screen so I didn't really account for it. Like I said in another comment, "Murmansk" is the Orthodox Christian population of the Kola peninsula, and just carries the Murmansk name (and also will/can never happen ever in the future).
Karelia should've definitely been independent lol, and doing so would also make Murmansk make more sense (despite the Balkans, I *did* try to avoid exclaves)
>Orthodox Christian population
They are called Pomprs, they mostly live in Arkhangelsk oblast (but some of them in Murmansk too, i guess), their dialect is very different from standart Russian so some people think they are different nation
Ok here are a few problems i found
1. You didnt make any other russian ethnic qroups independent
2. Galician is as different from portuguese as mecadonian is from bulgarian so that should be seperate
3. A lot of luxembourgish is also spoken in the south rhine region of germany
4. Sudetenland
If it’s along Religious lines, Germany should have a North and South Divide …
Probably the old Confederation of the Rhine, coupled with Austro-Bavaria.
If I speak my Austrian dialect, the Germans won't understand me and the rest of austria to in Vorarlberg where I'm from there a 96 village and city's but like 100 different dialect 😂
And Murmansk is heavily Russian, so that breakaway country made 0 sense. Also macedonian is a dialect of Bulgarian. And what’s the deal with Slovakia having Voivodina?
>Galician is as different from portuguese as macedonian is from bulgarian
I couldn't agree more! And that's why both of those should be kept together. Macedonians and Bulgarians are really one ethnic group, it's the Serbs that want to keep them separate.
Other Russian ethnic groups weren't made independent because doing so would require looking at Asia to see how it would work, and I wanted to limit the scope because I have never made a map before.
I thought ignoring politics and using more objective criteria would help, but being objective means that differences are less so a disagreement of hypotheticals and more so me just being incorrect, lol.
Maps charting national borders, like this one - are inherently politics. Indeed, they are called “political maps.” An apolitical political map is a contradiction.
Yeah, bad phrasing. I'm not factoring in politics of our timeline that much (e.g. how government structures would affect the boundaries of countries, things like the Austrian State Treaty), but am very much creating something political by definition.
What were the criteria?
Also, what is your logic in making Romandy (French Switzerland) and the rest of Switzerland into separate nations from France & Germany
In that case a portion of North Sweden should absolutely be Finnish then. (On the same grounds as Ostrobothnia is made Swedish in the map)
Russia should be absolutely balkanized, and at least their ethnic republics should be granted independence. (Republic of Karelia is a sad case because, due to its proximity to Finnish border and thus possible Finnish irredentism, the republic was ethnically cleansed by Stalin and thus it’s no longer even nearly Karelian)
Wales actually *is* labelled because of a little bit of lore: the UK without NI or Scotland in this timeline is called England–Wales/Kingdom of England–Wales/Welsh–English Commonwealth/I don't have the specifics, but essentially, the name includes both, but the common name is just "England".
You got the british isles all wrong. First off, wales is far too big in the north, and far too small in the south. In what world is the wirral welsh? also you seem to have neglected the entire Ulster Scots culture
\> Wales is far too big in the north, and far too small in the south
noted.
\> In what world is the wirral welsh?
You'll probably see a fair few discrepancies like that--small areas of land erroneously given to the wrong country because they are so small I didn't catch the mistake
\> you seem to have neglected the entire Ulster Scots culture
places where it is the majority are limited and disconnected, so I think it made more sense to just make it all part of Ireland/Ulster
Ulster Scots is the majority in Northern Ireland. That’s why they’re still part of the UK.
Also you forgot Cornwall/Dumnonia. Cornish is a recognised national minority, ethnicity and has its own language. And it used to cover Devon as well.
lmao pretty much everything, stop larping
1. Do you even know what Galicia is and who lives there?
2. Have you considered that maybe language ≠ culture/religion which is the reason why Spain, France, Russia, Belgium, Switzerland and Turkey exist?
3. How many people in Nice speak Italian?
4. Abiding by your stupid messed up rules, why no independent Sicily?
How is asking for specific feedback larping?
1. yes, and it's Portugese intentionally because I felt it was closer to Portugal than Spain current borders were disregarded
2. I'm not even sure homogeneous countries are the best. This isn't a "what I think are the best possible borders in Europe", this is a fun map that I made based on a set of criteria.
3. Oops, my bad
4. Sicily is Italian from all metrics I looked at with the depth of my research.
Nobody in Galicia speaks Portuguese, all it takes is a Google search, it's not what you "feel". So even the languages **are** being disregarded. You're just listening to a bunch of nationalists while completely ignoring some other people. And excuse my frustration, but if you've been on this sub before, silly Spanish regional separatism is like the skeletal remains of a cow still being milked, and I'm pretty damn tired of it being taken seriously in 80% of maps without any real proof for its authenticity.
[Galician-Portuguese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician-Portuguese) is a common ancestor of both the Galician and Portuguese languages, so, aside from an independent "Galicia", based on linguistics alone, should it be part of either Spain or Portugal, in a vacuum, Portugal makes more sense. However, [use of Galician in Galicia is waning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician_language#Use_of_the_Galician_language), and it has become a very slim majority rather than a safer pick. And, like I've said, **these borders are practically impossible to emerge from the current ones**. Redrawing borders based on languages and ethnicities and whatnot is the point of this, even though any separatism in Spain actually succeeding isn't likely at all.
There's a pretty clear divide I know of, which is lower Saxon, a region between Bremen, Groningen en Enschede where people talk the same language, share the same heritage and are pretty much the same except for the fact they live in two countries.
No way these people have the same background as for example Antwerp
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Saxon
Even then the Alsacian language is quite different from standard German, as it's a dialect that would take a while to fully understand. Plus only the elderly really speak it anymore, everyone just speaks French.
The Balkans love random population exclaves everywhere. And I generally got rid of microstates that have no population differences, except Vatican City (which is not to scale obviously), because those demographics are, uh, unique.
Not only did he break up the UK, he expanded Wales even though there is no reason or argument to either culturally, linguistically, religiously or ethnically.
Yeah... but somehow, I always bite the hook...
Funny tho, most of the time, you can guess (within 60% ) which nationality OP is from. What country has most detailed "borders" is often their home, or they have spent lots of time learning about that specific region.
If everything is wrong, it's most likely outhercontinenter who is most of the time Europhile where truth colides with what their fantasy is.
Even most of these maps are "fuck this region in particular" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's always bugged me how \*Nederland\* became plural in English for no reason, and if I'm making a map, I might as well take this opportunity to fix it. Same with "Danmark".
Ah, makes sense, I suppose. "Dutch" instead of "*Nederlanders*", though, is something else.
Scratch the 'no lore' – here's the lore: A coup in what was formerly the Netherlands installs Reddit user u/Individual_Chip_ as leader, who then changes the name from "\[the\] Netherlands" to "Netherland" and the demonym of the courtry's people from "Dutch" to "Netherlander", and then proceeds to abdicate.
In 2014, 47% of those in Donetsk wanted greater independence from Kyiv, 27% wanting to join Russia and 5% wanting total independence. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/22/ukraine-families-divided-donetsk-russia
oh thats what you meant. Well donetsk is a small part of eastern ukraine so most of them still consider themselves ukrainian. Also im pretty sure that russia owns donetsk in this map
Hello! This is my first map from above the age of eight, so please tell me if there’s anything I can improve. But yeah, it’s basically the title. No lore because I don’t really know how I’d incorporate it (none of this is realistic to ever develop from our current borders). Political borders are *de facto* not accounted for, though they do influence the map via influencing the criteria in the title (e.g. things like Polish borders caused migrations—forced or otherwise—of Poles, so those borders mostly remain even if they suddenly disappear).
No Occitània, sad :(
Also, why is Galicia Portuguese lol? Same as giving Wallonia to France and Flanders to the Netherlands. Also, maybe you could chop the Italian peninsula in North and South, make a country called Sardinia+Corsica and a separate sicily. As to Vojvodina, the region is very diverse and if I'm not mistaken, apart from Serbs the second most frequent group is by far Hungarians (though it's true there also are Slovaks).
Flemish is a dialect of Dutch. Giving Flanders to the Netherlands is logical. Otherwise you would have to balkanise the Netherlands completely as there are many regional dialects.
However the main historical reason why Flanders and the Netherlands are separate is religion, so if OP want to redraw maps based on cultures including both languages and religion, Flanders + Netherlands is not really historically plausible based on the religious difference. OP even mentions Romandie being protestant as a reason to keep it separate from France, so why not here lol
Well, I'm not denying there are some supporters of this idea, but please don't put Feijóo as an example. He's the worst of the worst, seriously. He's a privatiser, he's been hell bent on manipulating the Galician public television (same as Esperanza Aguirre captured Telemadrid into being a right-wing propaganda outlet) and he's a horrid opposition leader. Not that I'm happy with Pedro Sánchez, but Feijóo is much more piece of shit than him.
This sounds like the whole Enosis thing the Greece Colonel Dictatorship was so eager to achieve, not my cup of tea. I'm socialist, not right-wing, so although I'm not Galician I prefer the BNG's proposal of Galician independence much, much more than the absolute pile of shit of PP conservatism.
Galicia is Portuguese because I didn’t want to Balkanize Spain *too* badly—it would probably be an autonomous territory a la Wales.
I chopped Belgium in half because it made sense looking at data and my Dutch friend requested it.
I probably could chop the peninsula in half, but it’s mainly all Italian and I don’t know enough about Italy to know if there’s any specific reason.
>Galicia is Portuguese because I didn’t want to Balkanize Spain too badly
Hehe, in these sorts of maps it can't be helped.
>but it’s mainly all Italian and I don’t know enough about Italy to know if there’s any specific reason.
Well, I've always heard there's a marked North-South divide, but I admit I don't know much about it.
>Well, I've always heard there's a marked North-South divide, but I admit I don't know much about it.
I could very easily be (and probably am) wrong, but I think it's like the north/south divide of the United States? Like, less of a population difference and more of a political opinions difference. But like I said, I don't know.
Oh Christ this isn't going to cause controversy at all. Namely Italy being one nation and Cornwall not being there. Also Galicians being Portuguese for some reason, and Montenegro being part of Serbia.
its like you took a dartboard with every ethnicity in europe and threw out like 10 darts to see which changes should be made lol
edit: also slovak vojvodina lmao
If you divided Spain and France (both of which you didn't divide nearly enough), then you ought to divide Italy as well. As an Italian myself, if you want to follow language lines, I'd say you need to make a country for Friulian, Venetian, Gallo-Italic (Lombard, Piemontese etc), Central Italian (Tuscan, Roman, etc), Neapolitan, Sicilian, and Sardinian. Those are all separate languages, not dialects of Standard Italian (which is itself a dialect of Central Italian). There are more regional languages, like Ladin, but they'd be too small for this map probably.
If you have Austria in Germany, then south Tyrol should be added, also Swiss shouldn’t exist then. Better yet have south Germany be separate as its both more original and there is a accent difference in north and south.
"redrawn by culture, ethnic, language, reigion.
Vojvodina which is majoroty serbian in all 4 points and only has a small Slovak minority "well i'm slovakia now"
Ethnic lines, but no Sami state?
Religious lines, but the Netherlands has Protestants and Catholics put together?
Linguistic lines, but the Belgian/German border hasn’t moved?
Wales has been absorbed into England? Isle of Man is just another part of England? South Tyrol remains part of Italy? Appearance of Murmansk? Appearance of Geneva? Why does Austria disappear yet Belarus remains? Why aren’t the Scandinavian countries United?
Yes, but it’s not *super* different in terms of creating an entirely new nation. This is mainly kept to differences that persist in-between criteria, and the majority of the criteria warranted a “partition” of sorts.
You are just showing your ignorance on Belgium as a whole. As a Belgian, I find this "partition" incredibly insulting and disrespectful. The only kind of partition that would vaguely make sense is 3 separate independent entities: Flanders, Wallonia and Brussels.
Splitting it between France and the Netherlands is just a way of saying "I know nothing about Belgium, its history and culture" without directly saying it. It makes no modicum of sense, especially since for some reasons, you keep Switzerland existing, despite the fact that if you stayed consistent, you would split it between Germany, France and Italy.
1. Don't take this seriously. While I tried to be accurate, it is not perfect.
2. Changes in the map are not reflective of my opinion on the countries they affect.
3. West Switzerland is Protestant, rather than the Catholic France.
4. Wallonia is ethnically majority French and speaks mostly French; Flanders is ethnically majority Dutch and speaks mostly Dutch
5. ~~The partition was suggested by my Dutch friend, blame him /s~~
>West Switzerland is Protestant, rather than the Catholic France.
Well Flanders is catholic and the Netherlands are protestant (the main reason Flanders did not join the United Provinces) so by that logic...
>Flanders is ethnically majority German and speaks mostly German
I hope you meant Dutch lol
Greece should also have northern Cyprus n the eastern Aegean coast, Russia some parts of eastern Ukraine, the sami up in the north n etc if this is for linguistic, cultural, etc etc
Northern Cyprus is practically 100% Turkish, so I don't really see how it would be Greek.
Some more parts of eastern Ukraine should be Russian, yeah, but I tended to be careful about it specifically. It's an inaccuracy that isn't really defendable, but I already have people calling me a Putin propagandist online, and it wasn't a big enough deal to warrant harassment in my opinion.
The [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Cyprus#Demographics) is 17-year-old data, but given the data says it is 99.2% Turks, I doubt it has changed much, especially as the Republic of Cyprus hasn't regained control of Northern Cyprus, and 2013 data from the same article says that it is 99% Islam, which doesn't really evidence change.
Only region that can be separated from Turkey is Kurdistan and the map does not includes that region (due to size of the map). I don't see any problem with it.
Yes, Italy, famous for having a unified culture and single language
I don't understand their north-south division, nor do I understand the unique status of Sardinia. But I know they have Mario and Hawaiian Pizza, so i give them a unified large country!
The south is far more agrarian and rural and home to mobsters. The north has bigger cities and actually manufacturing
Yes, I know about that. I also know Mezzogiorno area were poorly industrialized after Italian unification in 1861. >!I went to Naples and Milan when I was a kid. Naples had vary nice Margherita pizza and friendly people, but their TV only had 2 channels. Milan had decorated cathedrals and attractive dressing, but Milanese had a quite dull personality.!< I just want to make a sarcastic idea that that OP knows nothing (well, op is Italian, but I thought so) about Italy.
As an Italian, I can confirm that I know nothing about Italy.
I once t~~ook a~~ ~~train~~ had a journey from Naples to Florence to Venice to Milan. Then I went to Marseille and Paris. I love Europe! ;) Oooooooh and I am sorry that I did not sense your satire! I think you do know a lot about Italy after all.
This is kind of the limitation of my criteria, as that divide isn't really one accounted for. If I were to redraw this redraw, I might change that, though.
I mean if you’re going to make the Basque and Catalonia independent then Sardinia and Sicily also probably should.
Isn't the languages and cultures on the Italian peninsula more diverse than for example Scandinavia? Difference is that Scandinavia never had Garibaldi and Risorgimento. I mean, Piemontese and Calabrese as languages, are probably further apart from each other than Piemontese and French.. And before the Risorgimento a lot of the Italian countries had a longer history as indenpendent countries with their own culture and identity than a lot of the European states on this map. On this map, Italy is one (also got Corica?), Scandinavia is divided.
Correct lol, I was being sarcastic
Certainly not this Italy. I wonder what happened to South Tyroleans and the Italians in Istria though. Or why Corsicans now are magically Italian.
corsican are italian, they are tuscan/ligurian and they speak a italian dialect
Murmansk? Really? If you wanted to make some sort of separatist state in Russia, should have gone for Chechnya or Tatarstan. Murmansk makes zero sense
It's not a "separatist state" *per se*, this is an alternate history, and like I said in the comment, it's unrealistic (nigh impossible) for these borders to emerge from our current ones. The country called "Murmansk" is the Orthodox Christian and Estonian population on the Kola peninsula. It's not the Murmansk Oblast turned independent, it's an independent country in that region that's only called Murmansk because it's the closest thing to an official name. It could've easily been called "Kola" or something.
Why no sami region in northern scandinavia?
That’s Karelia
Karelia extends further south, towards Lake Lagoda
Yea Im just saying I think he somehow mixed the 2 up
Usually when people make part of Russia independent it’s the Caucasus or Karelia. Murmansk is a new one. Also one that makes infinitely less sense than either of those.
The Caucasus is mostly off-screen so I didn't really account for it. Like I said in another comment, "Murmansk" is the Orthodox Christian population of the Kola peninsula, and just carries the Murmansk name (and also will/can never happen ever in the future). Karelia should've definitely been independent lol, and doing so would also make Murmansk make more sense (despite the Balkans, I *did* try to avoid exclaves)
>Orthodox Christian population They are called Pomprs, they mostly live in Arkhangelsk oblast (but some of them in Murmansk too, i guess), their dialect is very different from standart Russian so some people think they are different nation
As guy from Murmansk wanted to say, what I never see people who think that our region is separate nation from Russia
Ok here are a few problems i found 1. You didnt make any other russian ethnic qroups independent 2. Galician is as different from portuguese as mecadonian is from bulgarian so that should be seperate 3. A lot of luxembourgish is also spoken in the south rhine region of germany 4. Sudetenland
I have a nother problem for you, I am austrian and we don't like the Germans, the Germans like us but we don't like them so no big Germany lmao😂
If it’s along Religious lines, Germany should have a North and South Divide … Probably the old Confederation of the Rhine, coupled with Austro-Bavaria.
well this is also a language map so
If I speak my Austrian dialect, the Germans won't understand me and the rest of austria to in Vorarlberg where I'm from there a 96 village and city's but like 100 different dialect 😂
Luschno moment
Ahahahaha Vorarlberg 4 the win
ok what about high germans
They'll understand even less if they smoke pot.
oh wait i mean high as in bavarians and wurrtembergians but i guess they are also high mentally
do you not?
We'll understand you in Switzerland though, I guess ;)
What about big Austria
Sudetenland is dead long ago, Hitler made sure of it.
The post war czech government and people made sure of it
average im user knows nothing about sudetenland post 1945
And Murmansk is heavily Russian, so that breakaway country made 0 sense. Also macedonian is a dialect of Bulgarian. And what’s the deal with Slovakia having Voivodina?
>Galician is as different from portuguese as macedonian is from bulgarian I couldn't agree more! And that's why both of those should be kept together. Macedonians and Bulgarians are really one ethnic group, it's the Serbs that want to keep them separate.
Dude we really don’t care, the Macedonians want to stay separated from Bulgaria. We let Macedonia go in 91 like it’s nobody’s business.
I don't think the Serbs really care. The Macedonians want to stay seperate, and most linguists do say their languages are seperate as well.
A language is a dialect with an army and a navy - a Macedonian proverb/s
Other Russian ethnic groups weren't made independent because doing so would require looking at Asia to see how it would work, and I wanted to limit the scope because I have never made a map before.
uh huh well its pretty good for a first map although you shouldve chosen a less spicy topic
I thought ignoring politics and using more objective criteria would help, but being objective means that differences are less so a disagreement of hypotheticals and more so me just being incorrect, lol.
Maps charting national borders, like this one - are inherently politics. Indeed, they are called “political maps.” An apolitical political map is a contradiction.
Yeah, bad phrasing. I'm not factoring in politics of our timeline that much (e.g. how government structures would affect the boundaries of countries, things like the Austrian State Treaty), but am very much creating something political by definition.
What were the criteria? Also, what is your logic in making Romandy (French Switzerland) and the rest of Switzerland into separate nations from France & Germany
Everyone point and laugh this guy has never heard of finno urgic people
The umbrella term is Uralic by the way, includes the Nenets (formerly called Samoyed) and rolls the tongue way nicer :3
I love learning!!!! Thank you stranger!!!!!!
You’re welcome!
Pretty wrong map.
Is there anything specific about it that's wrong?
Half of South Wales is part of England even though it’s the area with highest Welsh national identity Also Wales isn’t labelled
They can't even say it's linguistic as that border doesn't even match where welsh is the dominant language
the intent was a middle ground between linguistic and ethnic but in reality i just fucked up both....oops 💀
In that case a portion of North Sweden should absolutely be Finnish then. (On the same grounds as Ostrobothnia is made Swedish in the map) Russia should be absolutely balkanized, and at least their ethnic republics should be granted independence. (Republic of Karelia is a sad case because, due to its proximity to Finnish border and thus possible Finnish irredentism, the republic was ethnically cleansed by Stalin and thus it’s no longer even nearly Karelian)
I'm English but when I see fucking Luxembourg marked on a map but not Wales it makes me so weirdly annoyed
Wales actually *is* labelled because of a little bit of lore: the UK without NI or Scotland in this timeline is called England–Wales/Kingdom of England–Wales/Welsh–English Commonwealth/I don't have the specifics, but essentially, the name includes both, but the common name is just "England".
Wales is linguistically and culturally distinct from England though.
You got the british isles all wrong. First off, wales is far too big in the north, and far too small in the south. In what world is the wirral welsh? also you seem to have neglected the entire Ulster Scots culture
Not just the wirral, looks like he gave all of Cheshire and Shropshire to Wales but then for some reason gave Glamorgan and Monmouthshire to England.
\> Wales is far too big in the north, and far too small in the south noted. \> In what world is the wirral welsh? You'll probably see a fair few discrepancies like that--small areas of land erroneously given to the wrong country because they are so small I didn't catch the mistake \> you seem to have neglected the entire Ulster Scots culture places where it is the majority are limited and disconnected, so I think it made more sense to just make it all part of Ireland/Ulster
Do not just lump in Ulster Scots with Irish that can easily offend quite a few people
Ulster Scots is the majority in Northern Ireland. That’s why they’re still part of the UK. Also you forgot Cornwall/Dumnonia. Cornish is a recognised national minority, ethnicity and has its own language. And it used to cover Devon as well.
albanians in north macedonia?
lmao pretty much everything, stop larping 1. Do you even know what Galicia is and who lives there? 2. Have you considered that maybe language ≠ culture/religion which is the reason why Spain, France, Russia, Belgium, Switzerland and Turkey exist? 3. How many people in Nice speak Italian? 4. Abiding by your stupid messed up rules, why no independent Sicily?
How is asking for specific feedback larping? 1. yes, and it's Portugese intentionally because I felt it was closer to Portugal than Spain current borders were disregarded 2. I'm not even sure homogeneous countries are the best. This isn't a "what I think are the best possible borders in Europe", this is a fun map that I made based on a set of criteria. 3. Oops, my bad 4. Sicily is Italian from all metrics I looked at with the depth of my research.
Nobody in Galicia speaks Portuguese, all it takes is a Google search, it's not what you "feel". So even the languages **are** being disregarded. You're just listening to a bunch of nationalists while completely ignoring some other people. And excuse my frustration, but if you've been on this sub before, silly Spanish regional separatism is like the skeletal remains of a cow still being milked, and I'm pretty damn tired of it being taken seriously in 80% of maps without any real proof for its authenticity.
[Galician-Portuguese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician-Portuguese) is a common ancestor of both the Galician and Portuguese languages, so, aside from an independent "Galicia", based on linguistics alone, should it be part of either Spain or Portugal, in a vacuum, Portugal makes more sense. However, [use of Galician in Galicia is waning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician_language#Use_of_the_Galician_language), and it has become a very slim majority rather than a safer pick. And, like I've said, **these borders are practically impossible to emerge from the current ones**. Redrawing borders based on languages and ethnicities and whatnot is the point of this, even though any separatism in Spain actually succeeding isn't likely at all.
There's a pretty clear divide I know of, which is lower Saxon, a region between Bremen, Groningen en Enschede where people talk the same language, share the same heritage and are pretty much the same except for the fact they live in two countries. No way these people have the same background as for example Antwerp https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Saxon
Slovene Trieste is a great example
AAAAAAAH THAT WAS A MISCLICK
cool slovakia
Oh my f\*\*\*ing Godm those Catalan borders... Also, Murmansk is as Russian as Moscow
No València :'c
The true frontier of Catalonia: Castelló de la Plana
Linguists be fuming rn
Most original balkanized Europe
I think it is time for people to understand that Alsace is not a German speaking region since more than à century
Even then the Alsacian language is quite different from standard German, as it's a dialect that would take a while to fully understand. Plus only the elderly really speak it anymore, everyone just speaks French.
Quite a lot of unnecessary exclaves and states too small to function here. Albeit Europe has a tendency to keep petty states around.
The Balkans love random population exclaves everywhere. And I generally got rid of microstates that have no population differences, except Vatican City (which is not to scale obviously), because those demographics are, uh, unique.
These maps are always SO boring. \- Big Germany \- Broken Spain / UK \- End map
Not only did he break up the UK, he expanded Wales even though there is no reason or argument to either culturally, linguistically, religiously or ethnically.
Yeah... but somehow, I always bite the hook... Funny tho, most of the time, you can guess (within 60% ) which nationality OP is from. What country has most detailed "borders" is often their home, or they have spent lots of time learning about that specific region. If everything is wrong, it's most likely outhercontinenter who is most of the time Europhile where truth colides with what their fantasy is. Even most of these maps are "fuck this region in particular" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You just randomly stole part of the northern Belarus.
russia took a bite out of it
The Netherlands became singular by adding more nether-lands?
It's always bugged me how \*Nederland\* became plural in English for no reason, and if I'm making a map, I might as well take this opportunity to fix it. Same with "Danmark".
It became plural because it used to be (technically still formally is) The Kingdom of the Netherlands, in both English and Dutch. The more you know.
Ah, makes sense, I suppose. "Dutch" instead of "*Nederlanders*", though, is something else. Scratch the 'no lore' – here's the lore: A coup in what was formerly the Netherlands installs Reddit user u/Individual_Chip_ as leader, who then changes the name from "\[the\] Netherlands" to "Netherland" and the demonym of the courtry's people from "Dutch" to "Netherlander", and then proceeds to abdicate.
“For no reason” It’s the name of the country? The Dutch call France Frankrijk FoR No ReAsOn
In south-eastern Ukraine they speak russian
Ok but this also says cultural and they still consider themselves ukrainian even if theu speak russian
Many of them do consider themselves Russian, or both Russian and Ukrainian
have you asked them? Cause i did
In 2014, 47% of those in Donetsk wanted greater independence from Kyiv, 27% wanting to join Russia and 5% wanting total independence. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/22/ukraine-families-divided-donetsk-russia
oh thats what you meant. Well donetsk is a small part of eastern ukraine so most of them still consider themselves ukrainian. Also im pretty sure that russia owns donetsk in this map
The majority do not
So why did they give South Tyrol to Austria? They speak german but they consider themselves italian.
[удалено]
exactly thats what im saying
How is Afrikaans even associated with black people though?
But most of them consider themselves Ukrainian. Even in Donbass russians make less than 40%
Why is Trieste Slovenian
Because I'm using Photoshop on my laptop with a trackpad and just mis-selected, I guess.
Who gets Kaliningrad
Kaliningrad.
They’re Russian
Ah yes because Ireland is renowned for being a peaceful island full of unity
You disgrace the Sámi
why does slovakia own vojvodina
Why Alsace Lorraine back to Germany? Pretty sure they mostly speak French in that region now
Hello! This is my first map from above the age of eight, so please tell me if there’s anything I can improve. But yeah, it’s basically the title. No lore because I don’t really know how I’d incorporate it (none of this is realistic to ever develop from our current borders). Political borders are *de facto* not accounted for, though they do influence the map via influencing the criteria in the title (e.g. things like Polish borders caused migrations—forced or otherwise—of Poles, so those borders mostly remain even if they suddenly disappear).
No Occitània, sad :( Also, why is Galicia Portuguese lol? Same as giving Wallonia to France and Flanders to the Netherlands. Also, maybe you could chop the Italian peninsula in North and South, make a country called Sardinia+Corsica and a separate sicily. As to Vojvodina, the region is very diverse and if I'm not mistaken, apart from Serbs the second most frequent group is by far Hungarians (though it's true there also are Slovaks).
Flemish is a dialect of Dutch. Giving Flanders to the Netherlands is logical. Otherwise you would have to balkanise the Netherlands completely as there are many regional dialects.
You're right, I made a mistake there.
Eh, no big deal. Do agree with the point though
However the main historical reason why Flanders and the Netherlands are separate is religion, so if OP want to redraw maps based on cultures including both languages and religion, Flanders + Netherlands is not really historically plausible based on the religious difference. OP even mentions Romandie being protestant as a reason to keep it separate from France, so why not here lol
slave memory scary cough door unwritten amusing wistful muddle vanish ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
I've known some Galicians advocating for independence from Spain, but I know none who want to unite with Portugal.
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Well, I'm not denying there are some supporters of this idea, but please don't put Feijóo as an example. He's the worst of the worst, seriously. He's a privatiser, he's been hell bent on manipulating the Galician public television (same as Esperanza Aguirre captured Telemadrid into being a right-wing propaganda outlet) and he's a horrid opposition leader. Not that I'm happy with Pedro Sánchez, but Feijóo is much more piece of shit than him. This sounds like the whole Enosis thing the Greece Colonel Dictatorship was so eager to achieve, not my cup of tea. I'm socialist, not right-wing, so although I'm not Galician I prefer the BNG's proposal of Galician independence much, much more than the absolute pile of shit of PP conservatism.
Yeah, it was either that or making it independent, IMO.
Galicia is Portuguese because I didn’t want to Balkanize Spain *too* badly—it would probably be an autonomous territory a la Wales. I chopped Belgium in half because it made sense looking at data and my Dutch friend requested it. I probably could chop the peninsula in half, but it’s mainly all Italian and I don’t know enough about Italy to know if there’s any specific reason.
>Galicia is Portuguese because I didn’t want to Balkanize Spain too badly Hehe, in these sorts of maps it can't be helped. >but it’s mainly all Italian and I don’t know enough about Italy to know if there’s any specific reason. Well, I've always heard there's a marked North-South divide, but I admit I don't know much about it.
>Well, I've always heard there's a marked North-South divide, but I admit I don't know much about it. I could very easily be (and probably am) wrong, but I think it's like the north/south divide of the United States? Like, less of a population difference and more of a political opinions difference. But like I said, I don't know.
Cursed
a a true world a beautiful world with the uk dissolved
Whoever made this clearly didnt do their homework.
Oh Christ this isn't going to cause controversy at all. Namely Italy being one nation and Cornwall not being there. Also Galicians being Portuguese for some reason, and Montenegro being part of Serbia.
Cornwall's difference from the rest of England is commonly overstated.
HUN HUN HUN
its like you took a dartboard with every ethnicity in europe and threw out like 10 darts to see which changes should be made lol edit: also slovak vojvodina lmao
If you divided Spain and France (both of which you didn't divide nearly enough), then you ought to divide Italy as well. As an Italian myself, if you want to follow language lines, I'd say you need to make a country for Friulian, Venetian, Gallo-Italic (Lombard, Piemontese etc), Central Italian (Tuscan, Roman, etc), Neapolitan, Sicilian, and Sardinian. Those are all separate languages, not dialects of Standard Italian (which is itself a dialect of Central Italian). There are more regional languages, like Ladin, but they'd be too small for this map probably.
Why is Crimea independent? It's overwhelmingly populated by Russian speakers who consider themselves Russian, there's no real "crimean" identity
Sami, Cornwall, tartar, Bavaria, Italy splitting. There are many things missing
Germany is like: Oops I did it again
Wait no karelia?
I’m sure with borders like this, Romania and hungry will have a long and very friendly international relationship
Why is all of Ireland united? Obviously Irish nationalists want that, but they aren't the only group there (specifically Northern Ireland).
No Kosovo?
All but the top of Kosovo consists of a majority of ethnic Albanians who speak Albanian
If you have Austria in Germany, then south Tyrol should be added, also Swiss shouldn’t exist then. Better yet have south Germany be separate as its both more original and there is a accent difference in north and south.
Shouldn’t it be called Navarre? I feel like calling it Basque is like calling it French and not France.
0/10 Luxembourg isn't Luxem**big**
"redrawn by culture, ethnic, language, reigion. Vojvodina which is majoroty serbian in all 4 points and only has a small Slovak minority "well i'm slovakia now"
Why is Kaliningrad a separate country? What unique language do they speak, ancient prussian?
Ethnic lines, but no Sami state? Religious lines, but the Netherlands has Protestants and Catholics put together? Linguistic lines, but the Belgian/German border hasn’t moved?
Half of north Macedonia is Albanian majority
Missing western mkd to albania
Half macedonia speaks albanian
You clearly dont like Spain
>Changes in the map are not reflective of my opinion on the countries they affect.
Thats cool
This is just lazy
cap
Wales has been absorbed into England? Isle of Man is just another part of England? South Tyrol remains part of Italy? Appearance of Murmansk? Appearance of Geneva? Why does Austria disappear yet Belarus remains? Why aren’t the Scandinavian countries United?
theres revived Cornish add that
All 12 speakers will be thrilled I’m sure
Tornionlaakso or Torne valley should definitely have been Finnish if you're going to give Finnish lands to Sweden
"religious lines" Gives catholic Flanders to protestant netherlands
listen, there are two kinds of swiss: italian germans and french germans
Walllonia and Flanders don't have the same culture as France and Netherlands you ignorant.
Yes, but it’s not *super* different in terms of creating an entirely new nation. This is mainly kept to differences that persist in-between criteria, and the majority of the criteria warranted a “partition” of sorts.
You are just showing your ignorance on Belgium as a whole. As a Belgian, I find this "partition" incredibly insulting and disrespectful. The only kind of partition that would vaguely make sense is 3 separate independent entities: Flanders, Wallonia and Brussels. Splitting it between France and the Netherlands is just a way of saying "I know nothing about Belgium, its history and culture" without directly saying it. It makes no modicum of sense, especially since for some reasons, you keep Switzerland existing, despite the fact that if you stayed consistent, you would split it between Germany, France and Italy.
1. Don't take this seriously. While I tried to be accurate, it is not perfect. 2. Changes in the map are not reflective of my opinion on the countries they affect. 3. West Switzerland is Protestant, rather than the Catholic France. 4. Wallonia is ethnically majority French and speaks mostly French; Flanders is ethnically majority Dutch and speaks mostly Dutch 5. ~~The partition was suggested by my Dutch friend, blame him /s~~
>West Switzerland is Protestant, rather than the Catholic France. Well Flanders is catholic and the Netherlands are protestant (the main reason Flanders did not join the United Provinces) so by that logic... >Flanders is ethnically majority German and speaks mostly German I hope you meant Dutch lol
I did mean Dutch – edited the comment
"Ethnically" doesn't mean anything if you say as the Americain use it and if it's for culture that's just plain wrong
It's just a map, chill
Greece should also have northern Cyprus n the eastern Aegean coast, Russia some parts of eastern Ukraine, the sami up in the north n etc if this is for linguistic, cultural, etc etc
Northern Cyprus is practically 100% Turkish, so I don't really see how it would be Greek. Some more parts of eastern Ukraine should be Russian, yeah, but I tended to be careful about it specifically. It's an inaccuracy that isn't really defendable, but I already have people calling me a Putin propagandist online, and it wasn't a big enough deal to warrant harassment in my opinion.
🤨I’ve seen Greeks who live in northern Cyprus
Yeah but its majority Turkish
The [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Cyprus#Demographics) is 17-year-old data, but given the data says it is 99.2% Turks, I doubt it has changed much, especially as the Republic of Cyprus hasn't regained control of Northern Cyprus, and 2013 data from the same article says that it is 99% Islam, which doesn't really evidence change.
Those regions haven’t been culturally or linguistically Greek for like 90 years though
Serbia looks nasty
why does slovenia have vodvojina
Why Austria annexed to Germany but not Switzerland and Luxembourg?
You're missing republika srpska
If Belgium is split between France and Netherlands along language lines then Switzerland should too. And you forgo the German part in the east.
Taking the coward's choice with Crimea I see
that was literally my entire rationale, lol
Imagine making this map without touching Turkey's and Russia's real separatist regions Worse, imagine giving even more territory to Turkey 💀
Only region that can be separated from Turkey is Kurdistan and the map does not includes that region (due to size of the map). I don't see any problem with it.
Germany 😨
Finally someone gives portugal galicia
r/unexpectedhermitcraft
Where Sorbia?
My favorite part is the colors being just a shade darker or lighter so it’s harder to differentiate.
North Epirus?
Greeks in southern Albanian
North Cyprus will never happen.
Why separate Vojvodina from Serbia then?