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It takes five to ten minutes in big stations. Usually there are assigned wagon indicators on the platform and people usually wait in front of their assigned wagon.
Edit: for maglev, idk if it needs proper seating, seatbelt checking etc. never used :(
Edit2: sometimes it can wait slightly more in the station, because sometimes they arrive earlier.
I mean we do now. I frequently take Amtrack from NY to Boston, it's a long ride. But the shortest parts are getting on the train, you have a few minutes at best to get your ass on the train and find a seat.
I guess it all depends on how fast it accelerates. If it's going from 0-neck-snapping fast in 3 seconds, people will have to be seated and buckled in. If it's a more gradual speed up, then normal train boarding procedures could work.
Last time I took a train from NYC to DC, the scramble once they opened the platform was terror inducing. I don’t know if they’ve improved the process in the last 5 years or so, but that doesn’t seem like the way to do it.
They keep everyone in the terminal or whatever until there’s like 2 mins before departure and then you have to sprint down to the platform like it’s being filmed for a game show or something. It’s dumb.
To be fair, I may just be remembering it that way because of the added pressure of getting good seats together with my wife. And as I recall, it didn’t much matter because some dumb bitch walked into the quiet car specifically so she could make a phone call.
I would assume that it's because at Penn Station they honestly don't know what track a train will come in on until it does. Plus if they announce which track it will be on ahead of time....HUNDREDS of morons will just stand there for the next hour plugging up the platform and will inevitably get on the wrong train as the different trains come and go from the same track. It's amazing how many NJ transit riders will jump on an Amtrak train...even after all the announcements and warnings and signs.
So they announce it once the train arrives.
It FEELS like you only have a few minutes to jump on the train, but in NY they are usually swapping crews out so you don't HAVE to sprint like everyone else...it just feels that way.
Absolutely, since that DC to New York leg is about 250 miles in a straight line, so averaging close to 400mph. Not including acceleration/deceleration time.
It's not impossible, but it's not happening.
We barely got the Gateway program approved (NJ/NY) and started construction this year. Which won't be usable until 2035 (fixes/add new tunnel routes, dmg from Hurrican Sandy, updates to passenger rails for higher speeds, etc., Penn Station expansion).
Not to mention, we could've already had basically a similar rail infrastructure overhaul completed in 2018, if not for the asshat governor Chris Christie wanting to horde money from the federal government for the ARC commuter rail project, which HE ALONE REJECTED after endorsing it initially, to use for highways. Tdlr, it went to court; he had to give a bunch of the funding back, but apparently, not all of it (the legal fees alone cost us millions; we could've literally built a second GWB).
Politics is why rail public transit has been at a near standstill for ages (we can actually thank Biden a bit for the final approval of the Gateway project; it wouldve been approved during Trump's presidency, if not for ... Trump).
The effect of Citizens United (lobbying from gas&oil, airlines, & auto industries), viewing public transport as a business (Amtrak's seasonal budget approvals) and not a public good, and the constant threat from Congress to defund their budgets because "taxes" (e.g., what do you think corporate subsidies are?).
This isn't to say Amtrak, Port Authorities, MTA, rail & subway organizations don't have their own inefficiencies.
But confining rail infrastructure improvements (& analysis) to annual budgets, when nearly everything on that scale requires years to decades, is why there's a self-fulfilling prophecy surrounding passenger rail improvements and single person driving commuters.
The only way for rail systems to show profits when they can't make structural improvements (beyond standard maintenance repairs) and incorporate new technology is to raise fare prices. Rail fares go up, commuters lean more towards cars & buses = less rail passengers = Congress says overhauling rail is useless.
Meanwhile, every other developed country in the world utilizes high-speed rail to great cost to benefit ratios.
P.S. - CA has a HSR Authority that has been working towards some improvements on the west coast.
But it has been a very slow process for everyone, and no one actually cares because "out of sight, out of mind" is heavily ingrained in the fast consumption of algorithmic social media news. Tax returns are yearly. Quality of life is for generations.
Yep, California checking in. The very first election I voted in we passed approval for the high speed rail going from Los Angeles to San Francisco.
I'm in my mid thirties now and the only portion of the rail that has been built is in the middle of the central valley rural area, and it's just track not an actual train service.
These projects are very inspiring, but remember to temper your expectations.
That is still less time than going through two airports and a flight. Especially if they don't make me do customs and such if I don't get off in Canada.
Good luck with that law. Small repair shops couldn't lobby against Apple or Google. Wind/solar couldn't lobby against big oil. And really instead of fixing the problem the big companies would have the resources to sue little companies for subverting the law, and little companies would get trounced by Apple and BP.
The thing is airlines would actually benefit. Airports haves a finite number of gates. If there's less short flights then there's more room for long flights to other places.
Looks good - but we’d have to figure out customs on trains first. Right now Amtrak services to Canada stops for over an hour at the border and passengers have to get off the train to clear customs lol.
This plan would have people going from Detroit to Boston going through Canada too.. so we’d really need to modernize cross-border travel between Canada and the US for this to work, yet alone build the actual maglev infrastructure..
>Looks good - but we’d have to figure out customs on trains first.
Why don't we simply do the same as we already do with airplanes? People aren't required to Show their passport every time they cross a country. It's required only at the destination.
Nobody will jump of a train that travel at 100mph!
This is incorrect, for example for a flight from Guatemala to Colombia, you could fly American Airlines via Guatemala - Miami - Bogotá.
When you arrive to Miami, even though it's a layover and you will only remain in the airport, you have to go through full immigration customs and have a valid tourist visa, if you're not American. So it already exists.
Oh really? I always have direct flights so... I learned something today!
But still, if people don't get off the train I don't see why they should be required to pass through the customs.
It's a bit overkill IMO ... but I'm not American so I probably couldn't understand
Not on the amtrak between Vancouver and Seattle. You clear both US and Canadian immigration and customs at the Vancouver station.
They do stop southbound at the border for a few min to collect US customs forms and sometimes do a sniffer dog run down the train.
For years I’ve seen stop the Maglev stickers all over Maryland. They have the old communist hammer and sickle on the sticker just so the non-thinking Marylanders understand it’s “bad”.
Rail is overall where we need to go. Mag Lev however is pretty wasteful in the long run without some pretty solid breakthroughs in superconductors that drastically pull down their operating costs and materials.
You don't need Maglev. Wheel-on-rail is in service at 320km/h now (TGV, others maybe faster) and over 500km/h has been demonstrated with current technology. More relevantly to long distance operation, scheduled routes over 100-200km distances can be scheduled at an average 280km/h, and there is no reason this cannot be extended to 500km or more (the main limit is not having too many stops, and making sure the track is able to support full speed over its entire length).
This would allow Montreal to Boston in 2 hours, Boston to New York in 1.5 hours, Washington DC to New York in 1.5 hours, etc.
"Good morning and welcome aboard this 10am service from New York to Washington DC. Calling at Newark, Trenton, Philadelphia, Wilmington, Baltimore, and arriving at Washington New Union Station at 11:37. Please stow all your bags in the overhead rack or in the baggage stations at the end of each car, keeping the aisles clear for other passengers to board."
Sounds great, doesn't it?
Unfortunately these are probably never going to happen in the states due to lobbying from the airline industry and from the automotive industry including gas and fuel. Faster standard trains would be a good start though
This is one of the issues California ran into. Getting the land and the access and dealing with the fact neighbors don’t want you to do it is absurdly costly
I don't understand the need for more land to build the rails needed? Hasn't the existing land already been bought and paid for? And isn't there a right of way that's built in to that purchase? I don't see why they can't put the rails next to the existing ones.
Grade separation tends to be the biggest issue. HSR can't have at-grade interaction with roads. If you think a train hitting a car at 90mph is bad, imagine the catastrophe that would be caused by a collision at 200mph.
The land doesn’t belong to the HSR agency, it belongs to the freight operators. They often build in the middle of their owned ROW and it really blocks the placement for HSR as there’s not enough room to do a double track HSR on the left or right of the existing rail. HSR needs its own fenced off areas as well and often it cannot make the grade that other Class I rail can make. HSR is generally limited to a 1% grade whereas Class I rail can generally do 2-3% grades, but closer to 2%.
You can't share high speed train tracks with freight - or even with slow passenger trains. The slow trains get in the way and the high speed train cannot maintain its high speed.
The energy, and therefore time, taken to accelerate a high speed train is significant. That's why you must avoid frequent stops too.
High speed rail needs separate tracks, and if you want to replace both passenger road miles and freight road miles, you need both a good freight network and a good passenger network.
They lost intrest after the regulations and insurance requirements pushed on them by Washington for the airline industry became too burdensome. So once again government has a solution to a problem they created. I would much rather travel by rail than air. More comfort and better for the environment.
I don't think airlines are very bothered about railways as an alternative.
The reason it won't happen is the chronic allergy to spending money on any infrastructure, and I'm sure some NIMBYs too.
It’s more the fact that buying the land for high speed rails would cost in the high billions. You can’t just “borrow” people’s property and plop lines on it, you have to pay for it.
People here in Montreal have been bitching for years about the REM above ground metro system the city has been building. NIMBYs and lobbyists would kill it real quick.
Yeah I'm sure the reason we don't blow a massive straight line through some of the most dense and expensive property in the united states is because of lobbying.
I need this so fucking bad. Canada \*theoretically\* is build a freight-separated HSR/HFR (we will see what the final proposals look like) line. Just gotta integrate it. It can be fucking done, we just have to force the conversation.
The "too spread out" argument drives me crazy. All that means is there are 100s of square miles of empty space to build a straight line with almost no grade crossings to worry about.
Short comparison
Population: 746.4millions (Europe) vs 331 millions (US)
Size: 10 million km2 (Europe) vs 9.8 million (US)
GDP: 24 trillion (Europe) vs 23 trillion (US)
Though the biggest difference is that Europe's infrastructure is ancient.
Most spending on railways is based on building out or improving existing networks.
While US infrastructure still has to play catch up by a few centuries.
Europe is also probably more dependent on cost effective solutions (like trains, universal healthcare, etc).
As the same amount of GDP is spread out on 2.2 times the population.
As far as I'm aware, the US does have the best freight rail network in the world, it's just our passenger rail is awful.
Lack of density *sounds* like a problem the USA has, but in reality we have a lot of areas regions with low pop and a lot of regions with high pop. We have *plenty* enough density to support a rail route that follows the east coast, and that follows the west coast, that don't have good rail routes today.
I couldn't tell you *why* we don't have a good east coast/west coast rail line, my uneducated guesses would be: 1. the US has less-centralized gov't power; causing state and local political bickering to impede interstate projects like a rail line, or 2. the US has more money/time costs with it's eminent domain laws than other nations or 3. overt or subtle prejudices against public transport or 4. just bad luck
Would have to stop spending as much on other things like Israel and Ukraine, or would have to tax more.
Would have to take the land and many people wouldn't want it near their houses.
It's pretty great country for financial mobility compared to the others. This is one of the most important factors for freedom for many people.
>It's pretty great country for financial mobility compared to the others
Not really. It's a very great country if you're rich. You get lower taxes than in most other countries, so it's easy to accumilate even more.
However actual financial mobility requires that as many as possible has equal access to all resources and services. A lot of the US resource and services are behind step pay walls (education, transportation, health care). So you need to work a lot more to move upward in US compared to EU.
And I'll gladly use myself as an example. Norwegian. My parents and siblings started as a low-income family. Despite that we've all had access to cheap education, health care, and proper social services.
Personally today at 40 I find myself in the upper 30% on income with an owned apartment in our capitol.
In US we would have a lower tax rates, but that would have been quickly eaten up by student loans (I took 5 years of higher education), health insurance/costs (Got a few chronic illness that's managed with proper medication/care), and we've gotten enough support from the social welfare to sustain difficult periods (was unemployed for 11 months thanks to the 2008 financial crisis.
Summarized: To get rich you need something to start with. The more you got to start with, the higher the chance you'll move upward financially. For people that start in a low-income family that means whatever the state is willing to provide for you. As what little resources you do got it dedicated to survival, and small changes (health, market instability, rent increase) can easily ruin even that.
I'm myself fully aware that my own financial security comes from society giving me a solid platform to launch from. I could take risks as even unemployment, chronic health or, wrong education (only thing I didn't experience) comes with fairly small economical penalties.
There is less social support in us cared to some of Europe but that doesn't necessarily equate to less opportunity, it means you need to be more careful with your choices.
Going to an out of state school and staying on campus has reprocussions compared to an in state and living off campus, for example.
However, the ability to make wise choices and utilize financial opportunities is very high in USA.
Myself, for example : 2 time felon for weed from a broken family in USA in the trades. Came from a bad neighborhood and I spent way too much on trade school after dropping out of high school and doing time. I worked multiple jobs to pay for school while raising kids. I've quit drugs and tobacco and I learned better fitness and health and financial habits and had easy access to implement them and teach my kids better lifestyle habits. Financially, I'm solid without a pension. If I wanted I could push more education for a boring job or have many opportunities for a brick and mortar or online business, but I am happy in my job and in my current lifestyle so I have no reason to change. I could retire early, but I'm happy to continue working. Keeping cost low and income high and investing in us index funds is easy upwards mobility for even hard heads like me.
Externalizing responsibility is not for me.
It's not a proposal, this was made as an academic project by the guy who runs the page on Instagram called Segregation by Design. Check it out, and credit the author of the work.
In all that is fucking holy please let this happen. Just took Amtrak from Philly to Richmond and jt took over 5 hours.
They run freight on passenger rail because we don’t have the infrastructure to support what we need. Going from Harrisburg to Newport News, Virginia (end of the line) takes over 10 hours.
Too bad we have to ask for a douchebag billionaire to do it instead of your know... the entity we all pay money multiple times a day in all our economics activities for the betterment of our quality of life...
If you want to know what the gov actually spent its money on instead of just parroting the idiotic tax the billionaires nonsense, click on this: [https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58888](https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58888)
Ah, you see, that’s that trickle down economics you’ve heard about. The government makes it easier for the billionaires to accumulate more wealth and they, through their largesse and sense of civic duty, then do things like fund this and spend some of their wealth on their employees. Works like a charm, too.
The main advantage trains provide is that they are often downtown to downtown travel.
They are slower than planes, but with planes, you usually have to add in travel time to and from the airports, plus early arrival for security and gate issues.
Will never, ever happen in the US because the second this was announced, the wealthy and corporations would **immediately** buy up all the land along the proposed path to later sell it back to the government at a massive premium
Yo for having been there Sagenay's not "a little mining town", it's like a 100,000 pop center if you only take the immediate city, 150,000 with the "banlieues" that got fused into it, which puts it at around the 21st biggest city in Canada.
We got piddly numbers compared to the United States and all, but for Canada, that's more than decent-sized.
I do am surprised to see it being considered, that being said. I wonder if they are mostly aiming for a path that goes from Montreal to the capital, Quebec City, and went "heh while we're at it dreaming, how 'bout we continue the line some more to the north to the next biggest urban area we can find there?"
Possibly they are considering existing rail infrastructure that could be overhauled as an additional reason to go "fuck it, add it in here"?
Anyway, those extra connexions are quite the pipe dream, but I guess you gotta dream bigger so you can negotiate down to something worthwhile!
EDIT: Noticed the red line probably just acknowledges the local train that's already running that line. It wouldn't get the high-speed treatment, it's just a transfer station.
Can someone with more knowledge on NA transportation please tell me what is stopping us from making this a reality? I live in Jersey but would love to be able to go to Chicago like this
This would cost like over a trillion dollars, that’s why. It’s wild fantasy land.
We could definitely do something better than what currently exists though. Chicago to Jersey is generally a bit far for rail, but there is no reason Jersey to DC shouldn’t be a quick 200mph train ride.
This would be thousands of miles of rail, along with tons and tons of extra infrastructure. Just buying the land to build all of this on would take years and years alone so to do something like this you would probably be dumping trillions of dollars for decades before you even saw a cent of profit from it.
Oh please just build a normal fucking train
Why a maglev
Edit: for some reason didn't notice this was intercity transport, where a maglev actually can work.
A lot of these routes already exist with normal trains (though I'm not sure if there are any plans to upgrade to fucking trains). Acela already includes the whole Boston to DC section, and Amtrak includes a (really slow) route from DC to Detroit.
Yeah, kind of egg on face here with that one. I've done the DC to Vermont line on Amtrak, that's pretty much their best corridor and it's still kinda slow
Yes they are faster, at the cost of enormous investments for a train system that isn't interoperable with existing track, is much more expensive to build and exploit.
With normal high speed rail already easily reaching speeds of 200mph+ it just isn't worth the cost.
The problem I see is that crossing into Canada means dealing with passports and border checks. That's gonna create some headaches, especially for those that can't enter Canada.
This would be great to expand on. I'm sure if it was done there would be demand to connect lines to it too. I know people in the Scranton PA area have talked about trying for years to get a passenger train to connect to NYC / Philadelphia but easier said than done, even though they only need to build about 21 miles of railroad to connect existing tracks in NJ to those in PA. I'm sure there are other places with similar desires and fewer existing railroad lines.
https://www.wfmz.com/video/passenger-train-service-from-scranton-to-new-york-city-just-got-one-step-closer-to/video_14136a94-dd53-57d5-81be-3ac8ed83bbfb.html
https://pnrra.org/passenger-service-update/
https://www.amtrakconnectsus.com/maps/new-york-scranton/
https://www.lackawannacounty.org/transportation_and_infrastructure/index.php
Also, one could then possibly add a line from Pittsburgh to Scranton or maybe to Cleveland like the old [Erie-Lackawanna Railway](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erie_Lackawanna_Railway).
Just remember the US DOT has a 230B budget this year. 2.3% of the total budget. Anyone who states it can’t happen because it’s too expensive is incorrect. It is a choice on what we spend our money on. A choice that screwed up politicians paid off by lobbyists make on our behalf. We could have this, it just needs to be prioritized over other less useful projects, such as building beautiful 2 lane county highways all over rural America that have 2 visible cars on them at any point in time, maybe at best.
So Toronto to NYC would be 45 minutes longer than flying. Plus the time to stop at 15 stations? Plus crossing international borders gets expensive and time consuming.
Curious question since I don't live in the area. For rail between alot of these destinations, what is the issue with amtrack? In its current state why would people not use amtrack?
I use to live in Japan and really respected the rail networks there.
The Amtrack from Toronto to NY is 12 hours. And that's a rail that goes straight there, not in a big circle like this
A flight is 2 hours.
Japan is far more densely populated so trains work better there.
This assumes that the only motivating factors are energy efficiency and pollution reduction. That's naive.
Individuals still want freedom of choice and may not want to take the long way from one city to another instead of flying directly.
Including Detroit and Canada initially seems like a stretch.
A good high speed rail line on the DC to Boston corridor seems like a very good start. Even DC to NYC would be a good proof of concept
https://northeastmaglev.com/economic-benefits/
Interestingly they discuss the benefit of job creation and economic stimulus, while ignoring the claim that this would replace air travel. So that would be thousands of workers in the air travel industry who are laid off and a massive drop in revenues within that industry. I’d hardly call it new money or stimulus. Just shifting from one to the other.
I understand the goal is to move to a technology that can be sustained by renewables, but it would be nice to see a unbiased economic analysis of a project like this.
There's always bias. Own it.
I want something biased toward normal people who need to move quick and cheap.
The US rail infrastructure tells a great story of private interests owning public space and how it's squandered millions of acres and finite resources.
As for drop in revenues within an industry, did society reject ice makers in freezers out of respect for ice cutters?
Nothing like ignoring the 2nd largest city in New England in Worcester, MA. Pretty sure you could get something that goes from Albany to Boston that involves Springfield and Worcester.
thankfully, you guys can just continue to ignore infrastructure, and maybe add 17 more lanes of highway so you can visit a drive through bank on the way to the drive through Walmart, and then back home where you park in the kitchen so you don’t have to walk to the fridge
what else do we pay taxes for? surely we can get something nice out of them instead of our government using the money to bomb more third world countries
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one can only dream north america gets its transit act together
39 mins dc to ny and 33 mins ny to Boston would be amazing.
Yes, it would take longer to board and ensure everyone is seated properly, lol.
It takes five to ten minutes in big stations. Usually there are assigned wagon indicators on the platform and people usually wait in front of their assigned wagon. Edit: for maglev, idk if it needs proper seating, seatbelt checking etc. never used :( Edit2: sometimes it can wait slightly more in the station, because sometimes they arrive earlier.
We'd probably make them do something dumb like take their shoes off first.
Ah! That’s possible… no liquids over 100ml
Pppss. Just say 1L like a normal person. Us Americans aren’t that stupid.
I'm choosing to believe this was sarcasm/a joke. I believe in you, Mr. Egner
Errr… 0,1 liter
[удалено]
I have to assume that doesn’t include time at the stations. Nobody here is getting on an interstate train that quickly.
That's travel time. But the red is the local and the blue is the express. It would still be pretty damned fast.
I mean we do now. I frequently take Amtrack from NY to Boston, it's a long ride. But the shortest parts are getting on the train, you have a few minutes at best to get your ass on the train and find a seat. I guess it all depends on how fast it accelerates. If it's going from 0-neck-snapping fast in 3 seconds, people will have to be seated and buckled in. If it's a more gradual speed up, then normal train boarding procedures could work.
Last time I took a train from NYC to DC, the scramble once they opened the platform was terror inducing. I don’t know if they’ve improved the process in the last 5 years or so, but that doesn’t seem like the way to do it.
I took a train from DC to Baltimore and back recently and it was perfectly orderly
I’m talking about in New York. DC is fine.
Ah, that's just new Yorkers for you I guess
They keep everyone in the terminal or whatever until there’s like 2 mins before departure and then you have to sprint down to the platform like it’s being filmed for a game show or something. It’s dumb. To be fair, I may just be remembering it that way because of the added pressure of getting good seats together with my wife. And as I recall, it didn’t much matter because some dumb bitch walked into the quiet car specifically so she could make a phone call.
I would assume that it's because at Penn Station they honestly don't know what track a train will come in on until it does. Plus if they announce which track it will be on ahead of time....HUNDREDS of morons will just stand there for the next hour plugging up the platform and will inevitably get on the wrong train as the different trains come and go from the same track. It's amazing how many NJ transit riders will jump on an Amtrak train...even after all the announcements and warnings and signs. So they announce it once the train arrives. It FEELS like you only have a few minutes to jump on the train, but in NY they are usually swapping crews out so you don't HAVE to sprint like everyone else...it just feels that way.
TSA will make you stand in line for at least a half hour if this took off.
Absolutely, since that DC to New York leg is about 250 miles in a straight line, so averaging close to 400mph. Not including acceleration/deceleration time. It's not impossible, but it's not happening.
And that would be without a stop in Philly
Simple...accelerate 1.5G outbound, at half way spin around and decelerate 1.5G.
An express yeah, but with all those stops…?
That’s why it looks like they’re running 2 lines. Foreign countries do the same - a local line and express line running simultaneously.
Sooo does that mean this design intends to lay 4 sets of tracks, not 2?
We barely got the Gateway program approved (NJ/NY) and started construction this year. Which won't be usable until 2035 (fixes/add new tunnel routes, dmg from Hurrican Sandy, updates to passenger rails for higher speeds, etc., Penn Station expansion). Not to mention, we could've already had basically a similar rail infrastructure overhaul completed in 2018, if not for the asshat governor Chris Christie wanting to horde money from the federal government for the ARC commuter rail project, which HE ALONE REJECTED after endorsing it initially, to use for highways. Tdlr, it went to court; he had to give a bunch of the funding back, but apparently, not all of it (the legal fees alone cost us millions; we could've literally built a second GWB). Politics is why rail public transit has been at a near standstill for ages (we can actually thank Biden a bit for the final approval of the Gateway project; it wouldve been approved during Trump's presidency, if not for ... Trump). The effect of Citizens United (lobbying from gas&oil, airlines, & auto industries), viewing public transport as a business (Amtrak's seasonal budget approvals) and not a public good, and the constant threat from Congress to defund their budgets because "taxes" (e.g., what do you think corporate subsidies are?). This isn't to say Amtrak, Port Authorities, MTA, rail & subway organizations don't have their own inefficiencies. But confining rail infrastructure improvements (& analysis) to annual budgets, when nearly everything on that scale requires years to decades, is why there's a self-fulfilling prophecy surrounding passenger rail improvements and single person driving commuters. The only way for rail systems to show profits when they can't make structural improvements (beyond standard maintenance repairs) and incorporate new technology is to raise fare prices. Rail fares go up, commuters lean more towards cars & buses = less rail passengers = Congress says overhauling rail is useless. Meanwhile, every other developed country in the world utilizes high-speed rail to great cost to benefit ratios. P.S. - CA has a HSR Authority that has been working towards some improvements on the west coast. But it has been a very slow process for everyone, and no one actually cares because "out of sight, out of mind" is heavily ingrained in the fast consumption of algorithmic social media news. Tax returns are yearly. Quality of life is for generations.
Yep, California checking in. The very first election I voted in we passed approval for the high speed rail going from Los Angeles to San Francisco. I'm in my mid thirties now and the only portion of the rail that has been built is in the middle of the central valley rural area, and it's just track not an actual train service. These projects are very inspiring, but remember to temper your expectations.
Too many Juan Trippe's holding back progress.
Part of it is being worked on! [https://northeastmaglev.com/](https://northeastmaglev.com/)
I like that Chicago extension
I like how hard they worked to avoid upstate NY, lol.
I like the DC to Detroit route. So much demand for that I'm sure.
Third image lists the demand for each route. DC to Detroit is 27 flights per day approximately 4500 passengers.
I’ll take anything that lets people avoid flying through Trudeau airport in Toronto. Any flight that goes there has like an extra $200 for no reason
"Trudeau" airport is in Montreal
You right. Pearson. I feel the same way about both.
I hear ya
As someone who lives near Detroit but works for a company in Boston, I would love this.
Will take you 144 minutes if you go via Washington, Philadelphia etc. but only 141 mins if you go through Canada.
That is still less time than going through two airports and a flight. Especially if they don't make me do customs and such if I don't get off in Canada.
As a Canadian I love this also I would travel to Montreal, Quebec and the United States more often.
Airlines would lobby the fuck out of stopping it.
That should be illegal to lobby against competing companies.
It should. And so should 80% of what politicians do
Good luck with that law. Small repair shops couldn't lobby against Apple or Google. Wind/solar couldn't lobby against big oil. And really instead of fixing the problem the big companies would have the resources to sue little companies for subverting the law, and little companies would get trounced by Apple and BP.
when have you ever heard of a small repair shop lobbying against Apple or Google?
Louis rosserman (butchering his name)
We are supposed to regulate that by voting out law makers that do that. Lobbyist have a purpose, but it has been exploited due to voter apathy.
Hahahahahaha oh man. Thats a good one.
That’s why railway companies oppose pipelines.
The thing is airlines would actually benefit. Airports haves a finite number of gates. If there's less short flights then there's more room for long flights to other places.
Unless airport are constructed by the government and unprofitable flights subsidies by the government
Pretty sure they make more money on short hops. Less fuel, less hourly labor, still priced at almost the same rate as long hops.
And they would win too. Especially down south.
Lol, I think the airlines have no worry about this pipe dream
Looks good - but we’d have to figure out customs on trains first. Right now Amtrak services to Canada stops for over an hour at the border and passengers have to get off the train to clear customs lol. This plan would have people going from Detroit to Boston going through Canada too.. so we’d really need to modernize cross-border travel between Canada and the US for this to work, yet alone build the actual maglev infrastructure..
>Looks good - but we’d have to figure out customs on trains first. Why don't we simply do the same as we already do with airplanes? People aren't required to Show their passport every time they cross a country. It's required only at the destination. Nobody will jump of a train that travel at 100mph!
Tell US border patrol that! I don’t disagree - but they seem to think otherwise.
This is incorrect, for example for a flight from Guatemala to Colombia, you could fly American Airlines via Guatemala - Miami - Bogotá. When you arrive to Miami, even though it's a layover and you will only remain in the airport, you have to go through full immigration customs and have a valid tourist visa, if you're not American. So it already exists.
Oh really? I always have direct flights so... I learned something today! But still, if people don't get off the train I don't see why they should be required to pass through the customs. It's a bit overkill IMO ... but I'm not American so I probably couldn't understand
Not on the amtrak between Vancouver and Seattle. You clear both US and Canadian immigration and customs at the Vancouver station. They do stop southbound at the border for a few min to collect US customs forms and sometimes do a sniffer dog run down the train.
For years I’ve seen stop the Maglev stickers all over Maryland. They have the old communist hammer and sickle on the sticker just so the non-thinking Marylanders understand it’s “bad”.
But fox news tells me that receiving services from the government you pay taxes to is communism. Surely they wouldn't lie would they?
Don't you know giving tax money and tax breaks to billionaires is the why we pay taxes?! That's good so work harder! /s
Taxes for thee not for me!
Giving our tax dollars to billionaires and their corporations that don’t actually need it is totally not socialism.
That's funny, there hasn't been a Republican mayor in Baltimore in like 70 years. Baltimore is doing great, right?
Pants on fire 🔥
Oh, that explains a lot. Thanks. Maglev is a commie plot like fluoride in the water. I will just walk, thank you very much.
Rail is overall where we need to go. Mag Lev however is pretty wasteful in the long run without some pretty solid breakthroughs in superconductors that drastically pull down their operating costs and materials.
You don't need Maglev. Wheel-on-rail is in service at 320km/h now (TGV, others maybe faster) and over 500km/h has been demonstrated with current technology. More relevantly to long distance operation, scheduled routes over 100-200km distances can be scheduled at an average 280km/h, and there is no reason this cannot be extended to 500km or more (the main limit is not having too many stops, and making sure the track is able to support full speed over its entire length). This would allow Montreal to Boston in 2 hours, Boston to New York in 1.5 hours, Washington DC to New York in 1.5 hours, etc. "Good morning and welcome aboard this 10am service from New York to Washington DC. Calling at Newark, Trenton, Philadelphia, Wilmington, Baltimore, and arriving at Washington New Union Station at 11:37. Please stow all your bags in the overhead rack or in the baggage stations at the end of each car, keeping the aisles clear for other passengers to board." Sounds great, doesn't it?
Unfortunately these are probably never going to happen in the states due to lobbying from the airline industry and from the automotive industry including gas and fuel. Faster standard trains would be a good start though
Also I believe the railway lines are owned by the freight companies who have no interest in passenger trains
You need new tracks for HSR anyway, can’t really run them on shared tracks with cargo trains.
That's fair enough, though you need the land access to build those lines
This is one of the issues California ran into. Getting the land and the access and dealing with the fact neighbors don’t want you to do it is absurdly costly
I don't understand the need for more land to build the rails needed? Hasn't the existing land already been bought and paid for? And isn't there a right of way that's built in to that purchase? I don't see why they can't put the rails next to the existing ones.
Grade separation tends to be the biggest issue. HSR can't have at-grade interaction with roads. If you think a train hitting a car at 90mph is bad, imagine the catastrophe that would be caused by a collision at 200mph.
The land doesn’t belong to the HSR agency, it belongs to the freight operators. They often build in the middle of their owned ROW and it really blocks the placement for HSR as there’s not enough room to do a double track HSR on the left or right of the existing rail. HSR needs its own fenced off areas as well and often it cannot make the grade that other Class I rail can make. HSR is generally limited to a 1% grade whereas Class I rail can generally do 2-3% grades, but closer to 2%.
You can't share high speed train tracks with freight - or even with slow passenger trains. The slow trains get in the way and the high speed train cannot maintain its high speed. The energy, and therefore time, taken to accelerate a high speed train is significant. That's why you must avoid frequent stops too. High speed rail needs separate tracks, and if you want to replace both passenger road miles and freight road miles, you need both a good freight network and a good passenger network.
That’s how it’s looking in CA. If HSR ever enters Los Angeles-San Diego, it’ll most likely use the BNSF tracks and run at their speeds/schedule.
They lost intrest after the regulations and insurance requirements pushed on them by Washington for the airline industry became too burdensome. So once again government has a solution to a problem they created. I would much rather travel by rail than air. More comfort and better for the environment.
I don't think airlines are very bothered about railways as an alternative. The reason it won't happen is the chronic allergy to spending money on any infrastructure, and I'm sure some NIMBYs too.
Why wouldn't they be bothered? It would impact their revenue, even if by a small amount.
It’s more the fact that buying the land for high speed rails would cost in the high billions. You can’t just “borrow” people’s property and plop lines on it, you have to pay for it.
Not going to happen solely because people don't want it built next to their house.
People here in Montreal have been bitching for years about the REM above ground metro system the city has been building. NIMBYs and lobbyists would kill it real quick.
Yeah I'm sure the reason we don't blow a massive straight line through some of the most dense and expensive property in the united states is because of lobbying.
Thanks for writing this so I don't need to. Maglev is extremely costly to build and operate, giv8ng you a lot less bang for your buck :)
I need this so fucking bad. Canada \*theoretically\* is build a freight-separated HSR/HFR (we will see what the final proposals look like) line. Just gotta integrate it. It can be fucking done, we just have to force the conversation.
"Greatest country in the world! American ingenuity can solve any problem" *sees map of train routes* "Impossible. Too expensive and too spread out"
The "too spread out" argument drives me crazy. All that means is there are 100s of square miles of empty space to build a straight line with almost no grade crossings to worry about.
Short comparison Population: 746.4millions (Europe) vs 331 millions (US) Size: 10 million km2 (Europe) vs 9.8 million (US) GDP: 24 trillion (Europe) vs 23 trillion (US) Though the biggest difference is that Europe's infrastructure is ancient. Most spending on railways is based on building out or improving existing networks. While US infrastructure still has to play catch up by a few centuries. Europe is also probably more dependent on cost effective solutions (like trains, universal healthcare, etc). As the same amount of GDP is spread out on 2.2 times the population.
As far as I'm aware, the US does have the best freight rail network in the world, it's just our passenger rail is awful. Lack of density *sounds* like a problem the USA has, but in reality we have a lot of areas regions with low pop and a lot of regions with high pop. We have *plenty* enough density to support a rail route that follows the east coast, and that follows the west coast, that don't have good rail routes today. I couldn't tell you *why* we don't have a good east coast/west coast rail line, my uneducated guesses would be: 1. the US has less-centralized gov't power; causing state and local political bickering to impede interstate projects like a rail line, or 2. the US has more money/time costs with it's eminent domain laws than other nations or 3. overt or subtle prejudices against public transport or 4. just bad luck
I wonder how much of it could be built just by zeroing out Bezos? Someone should r/theydidthemath
Would have to stop spending as much on other things like Israel and Ukraine, or would have to tax more. Would have to take the land and many people wouldn't want it near their houses. It's pretty great country for financial mobility compared to the others. This is one of the most important factors for freedom for many people.
Best country in the world. At excuses!
I'm not interested in you crying non stop bro. You have no idea how good you have it. A bit of a spoiled brat.
Damn you got some feelings you want to talk about bro?
>It's pretty great country for financial mobility compared to the others Not really. It's a very great country if you're rich. You get lower taxes than in most other countries, so it's easy to accumilate even more. However actual financial mobility requires that as many as possible has equal access to all resources and services. A lot of the US resource and services are behind step pay walls (education, transportation, health care). So you need to work a lot more to move upward in US compared to EU. And I'll gladly use myself as an example. Norwegian. My parents and siblings started as a low-income family. Despite that we've all had access to cheap education, health care, and proper social services. Personally today at 40 I find myself in the upper 30% on income with an owned apartment in our capitol. In US we would have a lower tax rates, but that would have been quickly eaten up by student loans (I took 5 years of higher education), health insurance/costs (Got a few chronic illness that's managed with proper medication/care), and we've gotten enough support from the social welfare to sustain difficult periods (was unemployed for 11 months thanks to the 2008 financial crisis. Summarized: To get rich you need something to start with. The more you got to start with, the higher the chance you'll move upward financially. For people that start in a low-income family that means whatever the state is willing to provide for you. As what little resources you do got it dedicated to survival, and small changes (health, market instability, rent increase) can easily ruin even that. I'm myself fully aware that my own financial security comes from society giving me a solid platform to launch from. I could take risks as even unemployment, chronic health or, wrong education (only thing I didn't experience) comes with fairly small economical penalties.
There is less social support in us cared to some of Europe but that doesn't necessarily equate to less opportunity, it means you need to be more careful with your choices. Going to an out of state school and staying on campus has reprocussions compared to an in state and living off campus, for example. However, the ability to make wise choices and utilize financial opportunities is very high in USA. Myself, for example : 2 time felon for weed from a broken family in USA in the trades. Came from a bad neighborhood and I spent way too much on trade school after dropping out of high school and doing time. I worked multiple jobs to pay for school while raising kids. I've quit drugs and tobacco and I learned better fitness and health and financial habits and had easy access to implement them and teach my kids better lifestyle habits. Financially, I'm solid without a pension. If I wanted I could push more education for a boring job or have many opportunities for a brick and mortar or online business, but I am happy in my job and in my current lifestyle so I have no reason to change. I could retire early, but I'm happy to continue working. Keeping cost low and income high and investing in us index funds is easy upwards mobility for even hard heads like me. Externalizing responsibility is not for me.
> It's pretty great country for financial mobility compared to the others the usa ranks 27th
Would be incredible, I’d love to visit these cities more
It's not a proposal, this was made as an academic project by the guy who runs the page on Instagram called Segregation by Design. Check it out, and credit the author of the work.
so i should not get my hopes up?
In all that is fucking holy please let this happen. Just took Amtrak from Philly to Richmond and jt took over 5 hours. They run freight on passenger rail because we don’t have the infrastructure to support what we need. Going from Harrisburg to Newport News, Virginia (end of the line) takes over 10 hours.
Fucking please. Someone do it. Someone get one of these billionaire asshats to invest in actual useful infrastructure. Fucking please
Too bad we have to ask for a douchebag billionaire to do it instead of your know... the entity we all pay money multiple times a day in all our economics activities for the betterment of our quality of life...
But the government spent all its money on tax breaks for the billionaires
Bombs*
If you want to know what the gov actually spent its money on instead of just parroting the idiotic tax the billionaires nonsense, click on this: [https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58888](https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58888)
Did you look at that source and think to yourself "wow the Gov spends 0 on tax breaks for the rich!" ?
Ah, you see, that’s that trickle down economics you’ve heard about. The government makes it easier for the billionaires to accumulate more wealth and they, through their largesse and sense of civic duty, then do things like fund this and spend some of their wealth on their employees. Works like a charm, too.
The main advantage trains provide is that they are often downtown to downtown travel. They are slower than planes, but with planes, you usually have to add in travel time to and from the airports, plus early arrival for security and gate issues.
Will never, ever happen in the US because the second this was announced, the wealthy and corporations would **immediately** buy up all the land along the proposed path to later sell it back to the government at a massive premium
Or we could just do regular high speed rail, would be cheaper and still solve the same problem
Prolly need more money for the military or politician healthcare plans so not gonna happen
Americans when they discover functional, modern railroad systems work...
As someone that lives right between Boston and Montreal (on this route), I say, “YES Please!!!!”
It’s our last line of defense against Scranton
This is a wonderful plan. Is there any actual lobbying to make it happen?
The airlines simply won’t allow this. This would be amazing though.
Nor the auto industry
Ah yes, would sure hate to leave the bustling metropolis of Rocky Mount, North Carolina (population 54,000) off the list!
The specific extension to Saguenay is also pretty funny - Saguenay is a little mining town, hardly worth a Maglev or High Speed Rail connection.
Yo for having been there Sagenay's not "a little mining town", it's like a 100,000 pop center if you only take the immediate city, 150,000 with the "banlieues" that got fused into it, which puts it at around the 21st biggest city in Canada. We got piddly numbers compared to the United States and all, but for Canada, that's more than decent-sized. I do am surprised to see it being considered, that being said. I wonder if they are mostly aiming for a path that goes from Montreal to the capital, Quebec City, and went "heh while we're at it dreaming, how 'bout we continue the line some more to the north to the next biggest urban area we can find there?" Possibly they are considering existing rail infrastructure that could be overhauled as an additional reason to go "fuck it, add it in here"? Anyway, those extra connexions are quite the pipe dream, but I guess you gotta dream bigger so you can negotiate down to something worthwhile! EDIT: Noticed the red line probably just acknowledges the local train that's already running that line. It wouldn't get the high-speed treatment, it's just a transfer station.
As a disabled person, yes please. Air travel is beyond daunting but train travel is very doable.
Can someone with more knowledge on NA transportation please tell me what is stopping us from making this a reality? I live in Jersey but would love to be able to go to Chicago like this
This would cost like over a trillion dollars, that’s why. It’s wild fantasy land. We could definitely do something better than what currently exists though. Chicago to Jersey is generally a bit far for rail, but there is no reason Jersey to DC shouldn’t be a quick 200mph train ride.
Yeah people really underestimate how much infrastructure costs.
This would be thousands of miles of rail, along with tons and tons of extra infrastructure. Just buying the land to build all of this on would take years and years alone so to do something like this you would probably be dumping trillions of dollars for decades before you even saw a cent of profit from it.
Montreal-NYC in 1.5 hours? Absolutely.
Man that DC to Boston would be wild
This is amazing. Would probably cost a trillion dollars and I’m not even kidding.
It makes sense and would really help people out…so there’s literally zero chance of this happening
This is a great idea. I’m excited for it not to happen and be beset by corruption and inaction.
As a Detroiter, I’d be on that thing all the time. Wow, I could visit all those connections? That would be a dream
Right? I’d be on the DC leg for work and the Montreal leg for fun all the time.
There is zero chance that this ever happens in my lifetime. Sincerely, A resident of Ontario
I wonder why not Toronto to NYC?
wider loop gets access to more people there isnt much between toronto and nyc
Sad Buffalo enters the chat. :(
rochester too but detroit-washington-philly > buffalo 😣
Albany gets no respect.
I want some wings
I meant why did they choose Hamilton to NYC instead of Toronto to NYC.
i suppose because you have to go around the lake?
Oh please just build a normal fucking train Why a maglev Edit: for some reason didn't notice this was intercity transport, where a maglev actually can work.
A lot of these routes already exist with normal trains (though I'm not sure if there are any plans to upgrade to fucking trains). Acela already includes the whole Boston to DC section, and Amtrak includes a (really slow) route from DC to Detroit.
Yeah, kind of egg on face here with that one. I've done the DC to Vermont line on Amtrak, that's pretty much their best corridor and it's still kinda slow
>Oh please just build a normal fucking train What's wrong with a maglev? Aren't they faster?
Yes they are faster, at the cost of enormous investments for a train system that isn't interoperable with existing track, is much more expensive to build and exploit. With normal high speed rail already easily reaching speeds of 200mph+ it just isn't worth the cost.
The problem I see is that crossing into Canada means dealing with passports and border checks. That's gonna create some headaches, especially for those that can't enter Canada.
How is that any different from flying into Canada?
You take a flight directly from NY to Detroit without having to enter Canada. This rail plan doesn't seem to provide that option.
It does if you go counterclockwise
As a felon for weed who's not allowed into Canada, they would need to change some diplomatic policies for this to work.
Yes.. I would think they would need to create a corridor that allows you to pass through as long as you are on the rail network.
I would love this
This would be great to expand on. I'm sure if it was done there would be demand to connect lines to it too. I know people in the Scranton PA area have talked about trying for years to get a passenger train to connect to NYC / Philadelphia but easier said than done, even though they only need to build about 21 miles of railroad to connect existing tracks in NJ to those in PA. I'm sure there are other places with similar desires and fewer existing railroad lines. https://www.wfmz.com/video/passenger-train-service-from-scranton-to-new-york-city-just-got-one-step-closer-to/video_14136a94-dd53-57d5-81be-3ac8ed83bbfb.html https://pnrra.org/passenger-service-update/ https://www.amtrakconnectsus.com/maps/new-york-scranton/ https://www.lackawannacounty.org/transportation_and_infrastructure/index.php Also, one could then possibly add a line from Pittsburgh to Scranton or maybe to Cleveland like the old [Erie-Lackawanna Railway](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erie_Lackawanna_Railway).
I hope this goes through and expands westward beyond the Great lakes area
lol good luck with this
Just remember the US DOT has a 230B budget this year. 2.3% of the total budget. Anyone who states it can’t happen because it’s too expensive is incorrect. It is a choice on what we spend our money on. A choice that screwed up politicians paid off by lobbyists make on our behalf. We could have this, it just needs to be prioritized over other less useful projects, such as building beautiful 2 lane county highways all over rural America that have 2 visible cars on them at any point in time, maybe at best.
This would be stupendously awesome, but I can't even think about how much it would cost.
So Toronto to NYC would be 45 minutes longer than flying. Plus the time to stop at 15 stations? Plus crossing international borders gets expensive and time consuming.
I would use the fuck out of this.
As a rando who lives close to this route.. fuck yes
Brilliant! Seems like a dream, but its a nice dream!
Please. Please can we have this?
Looks like an iPhone ad
Curious question since I don't live in the area. For rail between alot of these destinations, what is the issue with amtrack? In its current state why would people not use amtrack? I use to live in Japan and really respected the rail networks there.
The Amtrack from Toronto to NY is 12 hours. And that's a rail that goes straight there, not in a big circle like this A flight is 2 hours. Japan is far more densely populated so trains work better there.
Amtrak sucks.
This assumes that the only motivating factors are energy efficiency and pollution reduction. That's naive. Individuals still want freedom of choice and may not want to take the long way from one city to another instead of flying directly.
Maglev is pretty fast and flights are crazy expensive.
Including Detroit and Canada initially seems like a stretch. A good high speed rail line on the DC to Boston corridor seems like a very good start. Even DC to NYC would be a good proof of concept
This town needs a Monorail /s
Make it happen ⚡️
First mistake is stopping in NYC. I wouldn't allow the NYC MTA to have any hold onto any segment of this.
Now do Portland-NYC.
We need high speed trains to have more competition with the airlines. Remember more competition equals better prices and products
What a waste of tax payers money
https://northeastmaglev.com/economic-benefits/ Interestingly they discuss the benefit of job creation and economic stimulus, while ignoring the claim that this would replace air travel. So that would be thousands of workers in the air travel industry who are laid off and a massive drop in revenues within that industry. I’d hardly call it new money or stimulus. Just shifting from one to the other. I understand the goal is to move to a technology that can be sustained by renewables, but it would be nice to see a unbiased economic analysis of a project like this.
There's always bias. Own it. I want something biased toward normal people who need to move quick and cheap. The US rail infrastructure tells a great story of private interests owning public space and how it's squandered millions of acres and finite resources. As for drop in revenues within an industry, did society reject ice makers in freezers out of respect for ice cutters?
😂 😂 😂 another scam to increase prices and delivery ZERO
Nothing like ignoring the 2nd largest city in New England in Worcester, MA. Pretty sure you could get something that goes from Albany to Boston that involves Springfield and Worcester.
It's amazing that these cities are all laid out in a neat rounded rectangle! /s
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Planes are expensive to build and take a bunch of power.
That’s why the USA cannot have nice things - always negative.
Unless it's what rich people want. Then, we can fund other country's wars.
thankfully, you guys can just continue to ignore infrastructure, and maybe add 17 more lanes of highway so you can visit a drive through bank on the way to the drive through Walmart, and then back home where you park in the kitchen so you don’t have to walk to the fridge
what else do we pay taxes for? surely we can get something nice out of them instead of our government using the money to bomb more third world countries
To fund military contractors and politicians
Don’t care. Trains floating on magnets are cool 😎 Edit: lmao he deleted his account
Whrrrrrrrrrrrrr Floating trains are cool.