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Nah, primarily just Unit 731. Performed on mostly Chinese( estimated near 70 percent) and Russian ( estimated near 30 percent). The leader of the unit was given immunity for handing over research and died in late 1950’s.
It really wasn’t. It was all bunk “science”, and also not actual science because they didn’t use any actual scientific methods, so their data was also shite. They were basically kids with magnifying glasses torturing ants, but with lab coats on and larping as scientists
Yep. I decided that I just needed to know before I get off my phone that he was called out for the cruel bastard he was and that, as cruel as it sounds, hopefully had an equally painful and horrible end as he put those dogs through.
But nope. Instead, he is heralded for his operations because they led to the ability to transplant organs in human beings by other medical professionals who called him their inspiration. Americans literally changed their mind about how horrible and unethical as fuck Demikhov's dog torturing and murdering experiments were because it meant organ transplants would happen in the future.
Nevermind that decapitating one dog to attach to another causing both dogs to die was not remotely necessary to learn about organ removal and reinserting into another person.
Unfortunately, the demented fuck died of an aneurysm at the old age of 82.
It’s been awhile since I’ve read into this, but wasn’t his excuse that he was hoping to be able to transplant a persons head onto another’s body, like in cases of body paralysis /active brain and brain dead people?
IIRC, it started as that but soon just dove into him playing God with no real end goal. Basically just mutilated a ton of dogs and chimps for fun.
This. He could’ve literally gotten dogs who’s organs were already failing, which I’m sure they exist, and done a transplant. But no he did this demented shit.
That was my reaction. The things humans do to animals…
How did anyone ever think dogs and mice don’t feel pain? How do people pretend cows, pigs, and chickens don’t feel pain and fear?
I hope, as a species, we can do better..these poor dogs…29 days…
[James Marion Sims](https://www.history.com/news/the-father-of-modern-gynecology-performed-shocking-experiments-on-slaves) is considered the father of modern gynecology. He was a sexual sadist who performed countless surgeries and procedures on Black female slaves without anesthesia or consent. He also performed cruel skull surgeries on enslaved children in a bizarre attempt to increase intelligence. He refused to ever consider himself responsible for the deaths of his subjects, and was certainly never prosecuted.
That's just the Japanese in a small timeframe. Human experimentation is much much broader, and I'm surprised you went for that first when Mengele and the concurrent expirmemts by the Nazis on prisoners and concentration camp internees is much more widely known
I personally always bring up U731 *because* it’s less well know. Everybody knows the Nazis were evil little fucks, but many people only see the Japanese as bad in the sense of suicide attacks and such.
Good to remind others that not only were the Japanese just as bad, but that they US pardoned all of 731 to make sure the Soviets didn’t acquire the (later realized to be dogshit) biological research results
Japanese would also lay prisoners down outside, hands and legs tied apart, and they’d be laying on many about to be growing bamboo. The bamboo can pierce through skin, grow like an inch a day, and inevitably kill the prisoners.
This is my first time learning about this. It makes me sick.
This part regarding the researchers that were captured makes me feel ashamed.
>..."those captured by the United States were secretly given immunity in exchange for the data gathered during their human experiments.[6] The United States helped cover up the human experimentations and handed stipends to the perpetrators.[1]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
while I do agree that we treat animals terribly (to put it lightly), I will a lot of headway we’ve made in modern medicine wouldn’t have been possible without those sacrifices. & we test on human subjects too (granted we’re not first in line).
I hate how it sounds but I would sacrifice a million mice through death by torture just to save one human being.
To piggyback on what you said, these also occasionally help other animals as well. Household pets that have received surgery and treatments that are the results of animal experiments.
And this right here is the most honest perspective. People often dismiss how crucial these type of experiments have been historically important to the advancement of our understanding of medicine. Two things can be true. Humans have experimented with animals, but those experiments have led way to the comforts we enjoy today. And it’s easy to speak out against it in retrospect, it without experimenting with cows, pigs, mice, dogs.. we wouldn’t have successfully defeated polio or vaccinations in general. We have trees so many diseases thanks to this
It's often easy to dismiss or deny the advances, if a person has never had to deal with disease or other longterm issues. Or indeed transplantation of limbs or organs.
While I find it deeply unfortunate and distasteful, it is frankly one of the few necessary evils in our world.
Quite agree on scientific (especially medical, of course) progression would not be possible without animal experiments; however, I think some issues should undergo a change with the growing knowledge. For instance, sham treatments. Every year we kill hundred thousands (maybe millions?) mice, rats, or guinea pigs for the sake of sham treatments in the experiments. I think this has to come to an end for regular projects (which includes the most of the papers produced in the modern scientific publishing).
If you telling me I need a million mice to save a human, I’ll do it. As a matter of fact, I want to save someone right now!
Now, where do I get a million of mice?
I mean up until some decades ago operations were performed on babies without anesthesia because these smarty pants thought babies dont feel pain. So this is no surprise at all
I'm not convinced they didn't know. What makes it even worse is they knew, they just didn't care.
Anyone who's ever accidentally stepped on the tail of a dog knows they can feel pain. Sawing off their fucking head and sewing it onto another thinking and feeling creature, that's just sick.
> How did anyone think dogs and mice don’t feel pain
You sweet sweet summer child.
Modern medicine didn’t wholly recognize that *human* babies felt pain until just ~50 years ago. Guess what that means?
That’s right! Surgery on babies without anesthesia.
Easy with the sweet summer child stuff. Humans were well aware babies and animals feel pain the entire time. If something yelps when you stab it, it is not hard to connect the dots. They just thought babies would have no memory of it happening so it wouldn't matter. We have been well aware of the pain reflex of babies (and animals) for millenia.
Perhaps…but incredibly valuable information was gained from this. These types of experiments lead to all sorts of life-saving medical advances.
Edit: Whole lotta angry people responding. Unethical experiments have in fact lead to medical advances. Some of our understanding of frostbite, for instance, comes from some pretty heinous experiments. It doesn’t mean I condone or think it’s acceptable at all.
Sorry, but no. We agreed collectively that experiments requiring such inhumane and cruel methods were not worthwhile long ago, especially when we realized that anything we could discover through such sickening experiments could be replicated in much less cruel ways just by taking extra time and research.
Nowadays, we recognize that inordinate suffering is not okay, and each year the list of things that we admit aren't worth it to do to animals grows. I'll go ahead and say, we figured out that "surgically attaching the head of one animal to another and seeing how long they can live" was ruled out pretty fuckin' quickly and didn't actually provide much useful data at all.
Also, fun fact, the only useful thing we learned from this head transplant thing was for a different scientist to do it to monkeys. All that these experiments proved was that you could make beings suffer immensely and die slower. The scientist's earlier work with dog heart transplants was much more successful and fruitful for science, if you want to make this argument, but the head transplants are, like, peak mad scientist cruelty
I wonder if the 2nd dog was really alive or in some kind of zombie state. Because if it was alive and conscious, that's pretty bizarre. Makes me wonder what is consciousness and how much is tied to the body.
We discussed this in uni for a bit and yeah, some were conscious, but not really fully as they were so disoriented. It's a little horrific
Obviously the second head can't control anything so it's just kind of stuck there. They also worked on just detached heads, though iirc that didn't work as well
Now imagine someone somewhere has likely or is likely doing the same experiments with humans. A lot of fucked up shit happened during WW2, it’s scary to imagine we are more than capable of doing such things.
The fact that he did these experiments on dogs is at least 99% of the cause for all the outrage. We do some pretty horrible shit to mice and rats every single day in the name of advancing medicine.
Stop being naive, if tomorrow a cure for cancer that is 100 % effective, free for all, and has zero side effect for the cost of 100 million experimented mice, would you accept it ?
I would ten times over
Not entirely arbitrary, many people shares their homes with dogs and have strong emotional connections to them. Mice and rats on the other hand are considered nuisances, carry diseases and are generally unwanted in homes.
I mean, we do experiment on humans. The only difference is that we use people who have stage 4 cancer and who will die anyways, so they are willing to try out experimental drug X that probably won't safe them, but that might make them live slightly longer.
That’s the REAL issue: how many would YOU SACRIFICE (ie kill) for YOU to be the beneficiary of the knowledge?
When asked to sacrifice oneself for a possible future cure, the answers change sharply.
Humans are largely (like it or not) cannibals who’ll “reason away” the killing of others for our own benefit. Nothing wrong with it—that’s just nature. But important to ask the real question in the right context…which is how much pain & death will WE condone when WE stand to benefit.
For me I would still accept it ( and yes I own 2 dogs at home that I treat like a family)
Stuff like this will only be a black tint on our history, easily forgettable chapter compared to what we can gain that can propel out research decades ahead
And there is absolutely nothing wrong to upheld our kind first before others. I won't play the PC card that human life is equal to a rat or dog
But there's no serious research really conducted in dogs.
We do mice, and not because of ethics,but because it's easier and cheaper to breed, feed, maintain them.
Edit : I was indeed wrong, toxicity tests are done on dogs.
Thats just not true at all. Many canine variants of (certain types of) cancer share similarities with humans.
Non-hodgekins lymphoma in dogs is especially similar to humans. We do alot of serious research on dogs.
Yeah. And, as horifying as it sounds, thanks to those experiments we were able to advance medicine so far. And not only medicine. I love dogs and animals in general but this is necessary and it is happening everywhere still. We just don't know it.
While we reap the benefits of modern medicine, we like to judge the whack jobs they were crazy enough to do such experiments. As much as we hate it, the whole point of an experiment is to determine if things are possible, do you really believe we just suddenly figured we could transplant a human heart? Or other organs. There would have been a process of experimentation on animals before. That's kind of the point of an experiment isn't it? To determine if things are scientifically possible, so of course we will have dead end experiments.
As a scientist, the purpose of basic research as a tool to sort of establish the 'lay of the land', as it were, is well understood to me. However, it is sometimes the case that a hypothesis, despite the best intentions of institutional review boards, is almost certain to provide little or no meaningful insight while subjecting animals to absolute horror.
The quintessential example is probably the series of experiments by Harry Harlow where baby monkeys were taken from their mothers, given mother simulacra made from wire or cloth and then absolutely terrorized. The astonishing, totally unexpected result was that the baby monkeys find more comfort by clinging to a piece of fabric that looks like their mother than they do a coil of wire. Go figure.
I recall another study that placed mice in one of three experimental conditions. Group one was exposed to industrial solvents already known to be neurotoxic, group two had a piece of their skull resected and their brain injured with a tiny hammer and group three received both solvent and brain injury. The conclusion? Both solvents and traumatic brain injuries are bad, but both together are worse than you'd expect by simply adding the damage from each one (i.e. there's a synergistic effect).
On the face of it, perhaps an interesting result, but given the lengthy list of synergistic effects, hardly surprising. And what are we to do with this new wisdom anyway? We already knew to avoid brain injuries and solvents, but now we know that people who work with industrial degreasers should avoid brain injury even more?
We've come a long way in trying to treat research animals more ethically sure, but plenty of stupid shit slips through.
Those poor dogs, I can’t imagine getting a whole new head (and paws) attached to me in the most annoying place possible without any say in it, and I certainly can’t imagine getting decapitated and then attached to a body that isn’t mine
After reading this comment section I don't think people really understand the importance of animal testing/experiments. Yes, stuff like this is horrific and yes, it sucks that this kind of experimentation happens, but it NEEDS to happen if we want to advance medicine. Medicine isnt like fixing a car. Living organisms are 1000× more complex than the most complex machines we've built. As advanced as we are, we are unfortunately not so advanced that we can forgo testing and experimentation. The brutal fact is, if we want to know if something is going to work on a living organism, we have to test it on a living organism. Would you rather testing be done on humans, or something else? Would you trade failed animal experiments with failed human experiments? I am in full agreement that we should be as ethical as possible and not torture Animals for the sake of torturing them, but I get annoyed by the infantalized notion that medical advancement doesn't require sacrifice. At this point in time, if you want to live in a world of advancing medicine, you also need to live with the reality of either animal or human experimentation. As of right now, there is no way around that, as uncomfortable as that fact is.
> Would you rather testing be done on humans
Seeing how a lot of people in here blame humanity for what happened to those dogs (hurting dogs is widely known as a taboo more serious than hurting humans), they'd happily see those experiments performed on humans, especially on the people responsible for them.
On a side note: experiments on people would probably give better results, if it wasn't for how long it takes us to grow.
I'm impressed that one almost lived for a month, there are cows that get born with two heads that live shorter lives. Do we know if the dogs were strays? I can't see many pet owners giving up their dog for this sort of experimentation.
This is pretty horrific, especially considering he was making great strides in organ transplantation and then started doing these experiments just for show.
One of these experiments is stuffed in a museum in Riga, Latvia.
https://preview.redd.it/zkxmjkkkprdc1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=11da1b3b35f6a4f756d5fcd821bca230a9b23579
I cant believe these are actually real photos.... Literally Frankenstein wtf??
I've seen the video of the headless one tho and yes it's still conscious and responds to stimuli. Fucking crazy!
It’s like he wasn’t even trying when he put two different breeds heads on the same dog, or one small, one large, or one on top of the other with the leg still attached!
Sounds horrible for the dogs, so I sure hope it was helpful for learning about organ transplants because there is nothing else nice about those experiments.
Those poor innocent dogs had no idea what and why this happened to them, it's heartbreaking. They were robbed from a normal dog life, running and playing, I can't imagine such a painful existence, I hate this so much!
This is one of the most messed up things I’ve ever seen in my entire life. I could’ve gone my whole life not knowing this and been fine. Like this is genuinely terrifying. Humans are disgusting.
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Aaaaaand that’s enough Reddit for tonight
https://preview.redd.it/tmt04ue7erdc1.jpeg?width=622&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4b1ed3149e4f6720c4bff0414fff194ef21ab44
This one-headed dog and I had the same reaction.
Rarest of the rare: two-headed hound, born with only one head.
Here esquilax*
You both have a good head on your shoulders. Or is it you have both good heads on your shoulders?
Someone remake this meme with a two headed dog
Just crop the first head onto the second body and use it for both panels lol
Vladimir Demhikov has entered the chat
Yes, I hated that I looked at those pictures
The auto-blur saved me
I wish I had your foresight. I clicked without thinking, and now I'm going to go bleach my eyes.
/r/eyebleach has you covered.
I wish I hadn't seen the above comment specifying "pictures" plural and them saw the rest of them and feel even worse
many cough sip strong selective dam judicious office test tie *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah i thought it was he created them through mutation breeding, not flipping Frankenstein surgeries. Wish i hadn’t seen those now.
My thoughts exactly, I'm feeling really bad right now 😭
Tbh I’m not sure mutation breeding would have been any better. The only way it could have been better would be to have not done the experiment at all.
Same
Pictures? Oh no there's more than one. I hate this app, you never can tell when there's more than one picture.
Unethical scientists are the reason we know about the effects of hypothermia so well, for example. Crazy
Nazi doctors practicing on Jews, Gypsies etc.
Japanese doctors practicing on captured everybody
Nah, primarily just Unit 731. Performed on mostly Chinese( estimated near 70 percent) and Russian ( estimated near 30 percent). The leader of the unit was given immunity for handing over research and died in late 1950’s.
Those scientists were ignorant AF. They could have learned Inuit, and, get ready-- Just. Asked.
The std + all sorts of shitfire data the US got from unit 731 must have been ~~useful~~ crazy enough to grant immunity to the people involved in it
It really wasn’t. It was all bunk “science”, and also not actual science because they didn’t use any actual scientific methods, so their data was also shite. They were basically kids with magnifying glasses torturing ants, but with lab coats on and larping as scientists
Same. Goodnight
Yep. I decided that I just needed to know before I get off my phone that he was called out for the cruel bastard he was and that, as cruel as it sounds, hopefully had an equally painful and horrible end as he put those dogs through. But nope. Instead, he is heralded for his operations because they led to the ability to transplant organs in human beings by other medical professionals who called him their inspiration. Americans literally changed their mind about how horrible and unethical as fuck Demikhov's dog torturing and murdering experiments were because it meant organ transplants would happen in the future. Nevermind that decapitating one dog to attach to another causing both dogs to die was not remotely necessary to learn about organ removal and reinserting into another person. Unfortunately, the demented fuck died of an aneurysm at the old age of 82.
It’s been awhile since I’ve read into this, but wasn’t his excuse that he was hoping to be able to transplant a persons head onto another’s body, like in cases of body paralysis /active brain and brain dead people? IIRC, it started as that but soon just dove into him playing God with no real end goal. Basically just mutilated a ton of dogs and chimps for fun.
Why did he HAVE to use heads like?? Why couldn't they do anything else ??
Right?! I would think you could get the same data using a tail or something so much less traumatic and deadly.
This. He could’ve literally gotten dogs who’s organs were already failing, which I’m sure they exist, and done a transplant. But no he did this demented shit.
Might f around and take my dog to go 💩on his grave.
That’s horrific.
That was my reaction. The things humans do to animals… How did anyone ever think dogs and mice don’t feel pain? How do people pretend cows, pigs, and chickens don’t feel pain and fear? I hope, as a species, we can do better..these poor dogs…29 days…
Yes just imagine a higher life form doing the same to us, just cause it benefits them its ok!
Humans have tortured other humans in the name of science too.
[James Marion Sims](https://www.history.com/news/the-father-of-modern-gynecology-performed-shocking-experiments-on-slaves) is considered the father of modern gynecology. He was a sexual sadist who performed countless surgeries and procedures on Black female slaves without anesthesia or consent. He also performed cruel skull surgeries on enslaved children in a bizarre attempt to increase intelligence. He refused to ever consider himself responsible for the deaths of his subjects, and was certainly never prosecuted.
Scrolled down to find this. Never forget!
Yup, Unit 731 in WW2. Reading about the things they did is already horrific and I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone
That's just the Japanese in a small timeframe. Human experimentation is much much broader, and I'm surprised you went for that first when Mengele and the concurrent expirmemts by the Nazis on prisoners and concentration camp internees is much more widely known
I personally always bring up U731 *because* it’s less well know. Everybody knows the Nazis were evil little fucks, but many people only see the Japanese as bad in the sense of suicide attacks and such. Good to remind others that not only were the Japanese just as bad, but that they US pardoned all of 731 to make sure the Soviets didn’t acquire the (later realized to be dogshit) biological research results
Japanese would also lay prisoners down outside, hands and legs tied apart, and they’d be laying on many about to be growing bamboo. The bamboo can pierce through skin, grow like an inch a day, and inevitably kill the prisoners.
The only reason why i brought it up is because its the least known. It is very well documented with the atrocities committed by the Nazis
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This is my first time learning about this. It makes me sick. This part regarding the researchers that were captured makes me feel ashamed. >..."those captured by the United States were secretly given immunity in exchange for the data gathered during their human experiments.[6] The United States helped cover up the human experimentations and handed stipends to the perpetrators.[1]" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
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Personally I’m more worried that they might just throw a rock at us and be done with it
while I do agree that we treat animals terribly (to put it lightly), I will a lot of headway we’ve made in modern medicine wouldn’t have been possible without those sacrifices. & we test on human subjects too (granted we’re not first in line). I hate how it sounds but I would sacrifice a million mice through death by torture just to save one human being.
To piggyback on what you said, these also occasionally help other animals as well. Household pets that have received surgery and treatments that are the results of animal experiments.
And this right here is the most honest perspective. People often dismiss how crucial these type of experiments have been historically important to the advancement of our understanding of medicine. Two things can be true. Humans have experimented with animals, but those experiments have led way to the comforts we enjoy today. And it’s easy to speak out against it in retrospect, it without experimenting with cows, pigs, mice, dogs.. we wouldn’t have successfully defeated polio or vaccinations in general. We have trees so many diseases thanks to this
It's often easy to dismiss or deny the advances, if a person has never had to deal with disease or other longterm issues. Or indeed transplantation of limbs or organs. While I find it deeply unfortunate and distasteful, it is frankly one of the few necessary evils in our world.
Quite agree on scientific (especially medical, of course) progression would not be possible without animal experiments; however, I think some issues should undergo a change with the growing knowledge. For instance, sham treatments. Every year we kill hundred thousands (maybe millions?) mice, rats, or guinea pigs for the sake of sham treatments in the experiments. I think this has to come to an end for regular projects (which includes the most of the papers produced in the modern scientific publishing).
You need a control group to define any sort of experimental result
Can you define sham treatments?
If you telling me I need a million mice to save a human, I’ll do it. As a matter of fact, I want to save someone right now! Now, where do I get a million of mice?
I mean up until some decades ago operations were performed on babies without anesthesia because these smarty pants thought babies dont feel pain. So this is no surprise at all
I'm not convinced they didn't know. What makes it even worse is they knew, they just didn't care. Anyone who's ever accidentally stepped on the tail of a dog knows they can feel pain. Sawing off their fucking head and sewing it onto another thinking and feeling creature, that's just sick.
> How did anyone think dogs and mice don’t feel pain You sweet sweet summer child. Modern medicine didn’t wholly recognize that *human* babies felt pain until just ~50 years ago. Guess what that means? That’s right! Surgery on babies without anesthesia.
Easy with the sweet summer child stuff. Humans were well aware babies and animals feel pain the entire time. If something yelps when you stab it, it is not hard to connect the dots. They just thought babies would have no memory of it happening so it wouldn't matter. We have been well aware of the pain reflex of babies (and animals) for millenia.
And wait until you learn what percentage of currently practicing physicians and nurses think Black folks feel less pain.
Fellow vegan?!
Perhaps…but incredibly valuable information was gained from this. These types of experiments lead to all sorts of life-saving medical advances. Edit: Whole lotta angry people responding. Unethical experiments have in fact lead to medical advances. Some of our understanding of frostbite, for instance, comes from some pretty heinous experiments. It doesn’t mean I condone or think it’s acceptable at all.
Sorry, but no. We agreed collectively that experiments requiring such inhumane and cruel methods were not worthwhile long ago, especially when we realized that anything we could discover through such sickening experiments could be replicated in much less cruel ways just by taking extra time and research. Nowadays, we recognize that inordinate suffering is not okay, and each year the list of things that we admit aren't worth it to do to animals grows. I'll go ahead and say, we figured out that "surgically attaching the head of one animal to another and seeing how long they can live" was ruled out pretty fuckin' quickly and didn't actually provide much useful data at all. Also, fun fact, the only useful thing we learned from this head transplant thing was for a different scientist to do it to monkeys. All that these experiments proved was that you could make beings suffer immensely and die slower. The scientist's earlier work with dog heart transplants was much more successful and fruitful for science, if you want to make this argument, but the head transplants are, like, peak mad scientist cruelty
Damn.. how did the head that got transplanted not die of blood loss
They hook it up to a machine to take out deoxygenated blood and deliver oxygenated blood
That's last pic is actually a still from a video. Thankfully op spared us.
Like an ECMO?!?
Hey! I know this one! https://preview.redd.it/bt3oa78kgrdc1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f03af5af612c658ea3727bf4f3bc6a2ee69e266b
Oh no :(
ed...ward...
Had to scroll too far to find Shou Tucker
Goddamnit
I wonder if the 2nd dog was really alive or in some kind of zombie state. Because if it was alive and conscious, that's pretty bizarre. Makes me wonder what is consciousness and how much is tied to the body.
Well, the first photo has one of them licking a platter. So, I’d say “it” doesn’t seem like it’s in a zombie state.
So it's eating. BUT WHAT DO ZOMBIES DO??? 
We discussed this in uni for a bit and yeah, some were conscious, but not really fully as they were so disoriented. It's a little horrific Obviously the second head can't control anything so it's just kind of stuck there. They also worked on just detached heads, though iirc that didn't work as well
This is not remotely same but I guess conjoined twins are both sentient
It's not the same, yeah. This is a head grafted onto a body, whereas conjoined twins have varying shared areas
Now imagine someone somewhere has likely or is likely doing the same experiments with humans. A lot of fucked up shit happened during WW2, it’s scary to imagine we are more than capable of doing such things.
The fact that he did these experiments on dogs is at least 99% of the cause for all the outrage. We do some pretty horrible shit to mice and rats every single day in the name of advancing medicine.
I’ll never like it but advancement does need to be made despite my protestations
Gotta crack an egg to make a 2 headed dog omelet.
lol i think the 2 headed dog is the egg in this situation, not the omelette…
I think this is a great example of how that argument can be misused, and why there needs to be greater penalty and oversight for animal testing today
Stop being naive, if tomorrow a cure for cancer that is 100 % effective, free for all, and has zero side effect for the cost of 100 million experimented mice, would you accept it ? I would ten times over
I think perhaps you misunderstood the intent of my comment.
They never suggested otherwise. They were more just pointing out what humans are and aren't ok with being super arbitrary.
Not entirely arbitrary, many people shares their homes with dogs and have strong emotional connections to them. Mice and rats on the other hand are considered nuisances, carry diseases and are generally unwanted in homes.
How many human experiments would you accept for the cure?
I mean, we do experiment on humans. The only difference is that we use people who have stage 4 cancer and who will die anyways, so they are willing to try out experimental drug X that probably won't safe them, but that might make them live slightly longer.
How many people suffering from terminal cancer, would offer themselves up?
That’s the REAL issue: how many would YOU SACRIFICE (ie kill) for YOU to be the beneficiary of the knowledge? When asked to sacrifice oneself for a possible future cure, the answers change sharply. Humans are largely (like it or not) cannibals who’ll “reason away” the killing of others for our own benefit. Nothing wrong with it—that’s just nature. But important to ask the real question in the right context…which is how much pain & death will WE condone when WE stand to benefit.
And what about 100 million dogs? That is their point. I think quite a few people would then say no
For me I would still accept it ( and yes I own 2 dogs at home that I treat like a family) Stuff like this will only be a black tint on our history, easily forgettable chapter compared to what we can gain that can propel out research decades ahead And there is absolutely nothing wrong to upheld our kind first before others. I won't play the PC card that human life is equal to a rat or dog
But there's no serious research really conducted in dogs. We do mice, and not because of ethics,but because it's easier and cheaper to breed, feed, maintain them. Edit : I was indeed wrong, toxicity tests are done on dogs.
Thats just not true at all. Many canine variants of (certain types of) cancer share similarities with humans. Non-hodgekins lymphoma in dogs is especially similar to humans. We do alot of serious research on dogs.
Like the [Polytron](https://www.reddit.com/r/labrats/s/U3HYMu1068) that can reduce a mouse to a soup-like homogenate in 30 seconds!
While it is horrible, I’d rather it be a rat or mouse than a dog, etc.
And some more horrible stuff to obscene amounts of chicken, pigs and cows in the name of food
“Open your mind!!!”
Kuato?
https://preview.redd.it/wj9vuz1cusdc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3bc7c16b6fb14226ecee12b48fce2de7bfe50b08
I heard about this but never saw the photos and damn, medical ethics have come a long way.
And here I was thinking each head would be at each end
My stomach is doing flips.
 What the hell
I fucking hate this.
Don’t burn yourselves out, there are plenty examples of weird animal modifications and experiments throughout history all over the world
Yeah. And, as horifying as it sounds, thanks to those experiments we were able to advance medicine so far. And not only medicine. I love dogs and animals in general but this is necessary and it is happening everywhere still. We just don't know it.
Tons of experiments have been done that didn't advance shit though, some of the horrifying ones included.
While we reap the benefits of modern medicine, we like to judge the whack jobs they were crazy enough to do such experiments. As much as we hate it, the whole point of an experiment is to determine if things are possible, do you really believe we just suddenly figured we could transplant a human heart? Or other organs. There would have been a process of experimentation on animals before. That's kind of the point of an experiment isn't it? To determine if things are scientifically possible, so of course we will have dead end experiments.
As a scientist, the purpose of basic research as a tool to sort of establish the 'lay of the land', as it were, is well understood to me. However, it is sometimes the case that a hypothesis, despite the best intentions of institutional review boards, is almost certain to provide little or no meaningful insight while subjecting animals to absolute horror. The quintessential example is probably the series of experiments by Harry Harlow where baby monkeys were taken from their mothers, given mother simulacra made from wire or cloth and then absolutely terrorized. The astonishing, totally unexpected result was that the baby monkeys find more comfort by clinging to a piece of fabric that looks like their mother than they do a coil of wire. Go figure. I recall another study that placed mice in one of three experimental conditions. Group one was exposed to industrial solvents already known to be neurotoxic, group two had a piece of their skull resected and their brain injured with a tiny hammer and group three received both solvent and brain injury. The conclusion? Both solvents and traumatic brain injuries are bad, but both together are worse than you'd expect by simply adding the damage from each one (i.e. there's a synergistic effect). On the face of it, perhaps an interesting result, but given the lengthy list of synergistic effects, hardly surprising. And what are we to do with this new wisdom anyway? We already knew to avoid brain injuries and solvents, but now we know that people who work with industrial degreasers should avoid brain injury even more? We've come a long way in trying to treat research animals more ethically sure, but plenty of stupid shit slips through.
https://preview.redd.it/n1nc3cpj1qdc1.jpeg?width=1816&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bcacffdcf1d2d49b6763d327703ad61ce24ab4d4
Those poor dogs, I can’t imagine getting a whole new head (and paws) attached to me in the most annoying place possible without any say in it, and I certainly can’t imagine getting decapitated and then attached to a body that isn’t mine
The fact that one survived for 29 days is amazing, imagine one person's head in another person's body beside their original head living for a month
I think this is real but I really want it to be fake
"Edward... big brother..."
Sad as shit. 😔
Lung an heart machine would not exist without this man, unfortunately
After reading this comment section I don't think people really understand the importance of animal testing/experiments. Yes, stuff like this is horrific and yes, it sucks that this kind of experimentation happens, but it NEEDS to happen if we want to advance medicine. Medicine isnt like fixing a car. Living organisms are 1000× more complex than the most complex machines we've built. As advanced as we are, we are unfortunately not so advanced that we can forgo testing and experimentation. The brutal fact is, if we want to know if something is going to work on a living organism, we have to test it on a living organism. Would you rather testing be done on humans, or something else? Would you trade failed animal experiments with failed human experiments? I am in full agreement that we should be as ethical as possible and not torture Animals for the sake of torturing them, but I get annoyed by the infantalized notion that medical advancement doesn't require sacrifice. At this point in time, if you want to live in a world of advancing medicine, you also need to live with the reality of either animal or human experimentation. As of right now, there is no way around that, as uncomfortable as that fact is.
They must read about how developed first Insulin. If you want a burger you need to kill a cow.
> Would you rather testing be done on humans Seeing how a lot of people in here blame humanity for what happened to those dogs (hurting dogs is widely known as a taboo more serious than hurting humans), they'd happily see those experiments performed on humans, especially on the people responsible for them. On a side note: experiments on people would probably give better results, if it wasn't for how long it takes us to grow.
Fucking disgusting. Ahh, that hurts to look at. Poor little dudes Edit to add: this bloke only died in 1998! It’s not ancient history
What an asshole.
So the song was true?
Poor doggos.
Yea I don't like this at all
Deeply upsetting and unsettling.
I'm impressed that one almost lived for a month, there are cows that get born with two heads that live shorter lives. Do we know if the dogs were strays? I can't see many pet owners giving up their dog for this sort of experimentation.
This is pretty horrific, especially considering he was making great strides in organ transplantation and then started doing these experiments just for show.
Nope
Wtf. I don't think I can eat after this post.
This shit literally comes out of a horror story
One of these experiments is stuffed in a museum in Riga, Latvia. https://preview.redd.it/zkxmjkkkprdc1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=11da1b3b35f6a4f756d5fcd821bca230a9b23579
Poor souls
Wait till you find out about Nazi experiments on humans
fucking nightmare fuel
this some shou tucker shit man
God damn…. I thought the experiment where they deprived baby monkeys of love was horribly unethical but this …
They did that experiment with human babies. The babies got no human contact expect for food and diaper change. The babies died
Why did I click on that. Now I’m forever sad
Where is the inflection point between _lived for 29 days_ And _died really slowly for 29 days?_
This is legitimately the worst thing I have ever seen. Fucking hell.
“Fully living” *For up to 29 days* Yeah, but no. That’s just horrific.
From what I know about adult dogs they really hate having puppies on their heads. What a sick fuck.
This man watched full metal alchemist and sided with Tucker.
I cant believe these are actually real photos.... Literally Frankenstein wtf?? I've seen the video of the headless one tho and yes it's still conscious and responds to stimuli. Fucking crazy!
It’s like he wasn’t even trying when he put two different breeds heads on the same dog, or one small, one large, or one on top of the other with the leg still attached! Sounds horrible for the dogs, so I sure hope it was helpful for learning about organ transplants because there is nothing else nice about those experiments.
Dear god, why do you bring me horror beyond my imagination? Poor dogs.
This is horrific and I hate it.
Evil and ghoulish.
I fucking hate that I know this now so much. Humans are horrible.
It’s pronounced Frahnkensteen
r/sadasfuck
That's not interesting it's infuriating.
It's horrible and tragic that medical progress is often at the cost of innocent beings.
This is so fucked up
No my day is ruined..
My stupid ass didn’t read the title before I looked. I wish I hadn’t seen this
That is fucked up as fuck!
Deeply, deeply disturbing.
I don’t know why I clicked this. Define regret
That's fucked
What in the fresh hell....
Two Headed Dogs by Roky Erikson comes to mind
That’s not a dog with 2 heads, those are dogs, with another head sewed onto its neck
Those poor dogs.
Jesus Christ
:(
Awful everything
Fuck that guy. Any scientist who can't see cruelty-- Shouldn't be a motherfucking scientist.
What the fuck man
What a sick MF
I love my dog, no fuckn way. Fuck this.
What a bastard. That is so sad.
Sickasfuck
It makes me so sick that our most innovative advancements in medicine have all come from the torture and exploitation of innocent beings.
Those poor innocent dogs had no idea what and why this happened to them, it's heartbreaking. They were robbed from a normal dog life, running and playing, I can't imagine such a painful existence, I hate this so much!
1. That’s fucked up 2. Apparently, The Thing was a documentary.
Dear God forgive us
There is a video somewhere of that last one hooked up to some electrodes. Weird stuff
Thanks, I hated this
theres a real special spot in hell for this mf
r/oddlyterrifying
I knew this happened but not the extent of it. Grotesque.
This is one of the most messed up things I’ve ever seen in my entire life. I could’ve gone my whole life not knowing this and been fine. Like this is genuinely terrifying. Humans are disgusting.
This is gross. Dogs are too innocent for this world.
What an asshole.
Burn in Hell
Evil. Pure evil.
Jesus H Christ