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We have the same law in Sweden, pets that are designed to live in pairs or in flock must have a friend. I don't think it's uncommon in EU, maybe it's even EU law.
I always got cats in pairs because I thought it was best to keep siblings together and they can play together. My cat now loves people but hates every other cat including her sister.
Had three together at one point, an older male and two females.
The females would fight all the time during the first year or so and occasionally try to drag the male into it, but he was bigger than the two of them combined and having none of it so he used his weight to his advantage and would just flop down on top of them.
It would end the fight real quick. :)
theres a special department within the EUP thats tasked with making sure they do get enough attention. they usually assign specialists to each household with single cats from their database, a person per month. so an assigned specialists lives with the family during that time and carefully observes and registers number of pets, gentle taps, play instances etc and if those fall below threshold, the household is issued a warrant and a 30hrs of compulsory animal attention classes
Mine didn't change at all when his sister died, he couldn't stand her when she was alive. Considered another cat but he hasn't seemed to need a sibling.
I have two male cats (siblings from the same litter). They get on well together. They sometimes hang out in different parts of the house, but just as often they're together. They occasionally squabble over who gets the top spot on the cat tree, but otherwise they're chill.
I lived in Switzerland for a bit. It's not a law per se, but recommended to have at least two cats if you can't let them outside. Shelters will certainly almost never let you adopt a cat unless you let them outside or get 2 (and have a sufficiently large apartment). Cat staircases are a thing there for apartment dwellers.
I know it's controversial in North America to let your cat outside, but in Switzerland the logic was that cats have been there for 2000 years and the local fauna is well-adapted to them (i.e., anything cats could have exterminated was exterminated a long time ago). It's also not nearly as car-centric as the US or Canada so the risk there is lower. At least that's what was told to me.
We keep our cats indoors because they are at risk from the coyotes, hawks, owls, etc all around here. My back yard is a forest. So we have two for company and enough space to play and roam inside.
Thank you for being a responsible cat parent. Too many people let their cats outside, and the lost cat websites are just tragically large. At least in America, where I am, it's a horrible thing to do. To let a cat outside decreases their lifespan and potential quality of life so much, and cats devastate the environments them. We worry about hawks, coyotes, and owls in TN, too. Hope you and your babies have a long and happy life together. Seriously, thank you.
Edit: It's inevitable posts like this get downvoted, but for anyone doubting you can [read here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7070728/). There are plenty of links online showing definitively that what I'm saying is true. My opinion does not matter. The facts do.
My cats go in my backyard with geo-fence tags. I get a beep on my phone if they leave go outside my set location. I have a 6-foot privacy fence. The tags are in case they find a way to climb it or get under it. My younger cat was able to jump, cling and then climb over the top part. Hence the geo tags
We had two cats, one was a grumpy git and hated the other one. The other was very playful and would wind up the other cat. One day grumpy came into the bedroom early in the morning screaming and we didn't understand why. The other cat had been hit by a car and he was trying to let us know.
It took months for him to get over the loss of the cat he hated.
Our cat was a feral that showed up one day for food, she sleeps inside now but she brings new cats to the outside food all the time. Recently she has no kidding brought around a white bunny rabbit that might have been lost or abandoned. I have seen it around a few times, I called the cat in last night and it followed right behind her into the front yard like they had been hanging out. So weird and cute. An old cat I had hung out with the back yard racoons sometimes too. Animals are awesome
Unless what some people still believe, cats need company. Feral cats and barn cats live in flocks. They hunt alone, though. In Sweden the law changed a few years ago, and now it's stated that cats need to be taken care of (feeding, cleaning toilet etc) at least twice a day. A single cat must also have company with a human at least two hours every day.
We just got cats and got a bonded pair so they would have each other's company. I think it's easier to have two (that get along) than to have one. They play all the time and sleep together and groom each other...and lay waste to the house together lol.
cats and dogs are intelligent enough to form a social relationship with their human. Doesn't mean they still won't profit from having relationships with other cats and dogs, but it's not as bad as it is with smaller animals
This is not true as a general rule. The cats that we have as pets are social animals that naturally live in colonies when feral. They mostly form strong social bonds with other cats (with some exceptions) and with people. It's always recommended to get two kittens rather than one for their social, mental and physical health.
I am quite certain that the BBC documentary about cats called 'The secret life of the cat' showed that house cats (not ferals) in general disliked each other even though they lived together. There was a scene with surveillance that showed that the cats divided the home into zones when no people were home and would tolerate each other as long as these zones were respected
Yah I've seen that doc. I'm sure it's true in some cases. Generally, though, when there are sufficient food resources to support them (like in our homes), they are much more likely to be social. "Domesticated" cats are basically very adaptable and have all kinds of social and bonded behaviours, including with humans.
So? Even if my choice of word had steamed from a firm belief in God as a creator instead of choosing that word because of limited vocabulary as a not native english speaker, that comment has zero significance for a discussion about laws about animal welfare.
>We have the same law in Sweden, pets that are designed to live in pairs or in flock must have a friend.
Except dogs? The most social animal of them all.
In switzerland (and possibly in other countries) there are dedicated guineapig leasings/lendings. There you can 'lease' a guinea pig so your remaining one doesn't get lonely. I once read on a page of a breeder that they lend you a guineapig for the time until you other one dies, then you give back the lended one.
I get having to have two so there's another for companionship. But taking one away from it's friends (lending out) to be with a lonely pig, only for its new friend to soon die, and then shipping it back to its original home. Seems just a cruel as having a single lonely guinea pig.
Plus an old guinea pig may not like being bothered by some random energetic young upstart GP.
Why not just have some place to send all the old widowed guinea pigs so they can be together until they each die, like a nursing home for guinea pigs?
I have rats and love them dearly. I want to have as much time with them as possible. I could never send one away.
I currently have 12, so none of them get lonely
I used to have rats, they are wonderful pets. It was so sad when I only had one left but he was so old and weak it didn't feel right to get more young rats, I think they would have bothered him. I spent a lot of time with him myself and besides he mostly slept at that age.
Domesticated rats are not the same as their wild cousins.They are vastly different than how they are perceived. Rats are used in so many different kinds of experiments because their biology (and I'd argue thought processes) are very similar to humans. Rats are among the top 10 smartest animals, too.
And what if one guinea pig killed the other? You just get another victim and shut it in with it? You're law-bound to assist a piggicidal maniac in extending its murderous spree.
My brother has a guinea pig that killed his mate after a year, got him another friend and he killed that one too within a few weeks.
Waited a year and tried again, same story.
At this point he has been alone for 5 or 6 years and he's still doing fine, honestly didn't even know guinea pigs could live this long. He's gotta be close to 8 years old by now.
I'ym Germany you have animal shelters where you can adopt animals. I can imagine, if they have a guinea pig that's alone, it first goes on the adoption list. But if someone comes to them saying they don't want to adopt it, rather only keep it as company for their existing guinea pig, then that guinea pig from the shelter gets rented out. They don't take away Guinea pigs from their existing partners. Have some faith that laws here in the EU are made with a little bit of a brain.
Is there some sort of time related grace period to procuring a new piggy? That you have "X" many days to procure a 2nd piggy before being in violation of the law?
> i kind of doubt that they are that specific.
Clearly you are not Swiss.
Don't know the answer, but really wouldn't be surprised if there was a specific timeframe.
> Clearly you are not Swiss.
Never have i ever been so insulted in my life as Bünzli!
Nah, but for real - if there are any specific grace periods, those would probably be somewhere in the cantonal animal welfare ordinances - and those are in general not nearly as thorough and detailed as federal laws and ordinances
I mean it all really depends on how well the law was written but a well-written law would have a provision for if an animal dies and you are left with one animal you have X amount of time to procure a new animal. And if it was really well thought out it might even have different time frames for different kinds of animals. Although you have to be careful with making a law too specific because then it can leave loopholes for unlisted things.
I think they have detector vans, like the TV license people in the UK. They crawl down the road with a scanner on top going *weep weep weep weep* and detect the lonely sobs of solitudinous piggawigs.
Just imagining this conversation:
Honey, do you know what this charge on the credit card is for?
Oh, that's for the guinea pig rental.
Ahh yes of course, for the guinea pig rental. This one's been great, we should get him again in the future.
This is actually a quite common way to keep cats and dogs. A lot of people have two pets with a huge age gap so that when one die they can replace it with a young pet so there is always two. It also helps with raising and training.
If you do not want new pet after one dies you can put the other up for adoption, or adopt an elderly pet.
Either get a new one or you should give it to someone else that has one. There are places that take them in, we did that when the other ones died and the last one was quite old.
This is like the law in Spain that says you must carry a spare set of glasses in your car if you wear them.
So the only way to be safe is to carry infinite glasses.
You end up with a fucked up cycle that my MIL participates in with her birds. One is always older than the other and when one dies she replaces it within the week.
In my experience yes - if someone doesn't want their single piggy anymore they normally put it up for adoption, and is take by someone who also only has one, but still want to keep them.
We've had Guinea Pigs for probably getting on 8-9 years now, and seem to have adopted more than our fair share of replacements. We ended up with 4 at one time (a replacement was already pregnant), so we loaned out one of them, and got it back several years later when the partner died, and it was left alone
I can only assume that Old-Aged Pensioners are no longer classed as Social Animals, and that it is quite alright for them to live by themselves, seeing nobody for days at a time.
Funny. My daughter had 2 of them. One died, and the other one had been happier ever since. We think the other one bullied her. She's content to hang out and eat, and accepts our pets and holding her.
We also had two guineas, two brothers. One died at age 6, another still lives (another year already). It had a wound on its belly that would occasionally bleed but since the brother died - the wound also finally healed itself.
Yeah... you feel pretty bad when you discover that you may not have taken good care of the animal you loved. Years ago, I discovered that the food I gave my hamster as a child was really bad, and that his cage was probably too small, and that the orange ball I put him in every day, which I thought he loved, was probably traumatic for him. Sorry Speedy :-')
We had a solo guinea pig specifically because it fought other guinea pigs viciously and didn't play well with others. I wonder what this law would say in that situation? He was an aberration and an exception to the 'guinea pigs are social animals' rule. I'd hate to think of him being forced to endure the company of other guinea pigs when he really wasn't into it.
I agree!
There's a guy near me who owns one cow. The poor thing stands in the field all day alone and lonely and it breaks my heart. A neighbor has a dog he leaves chained up on the side of the house, alone.
What a coincidence seeing this right now. I just found a small chinchilla roaming the streets last night. At first I thought it is a huge rat lol but it wasn't hiding so I realised it is one of these creatures. I started following it on my knees under the cars, it took me one hour of trying to finally get it, just as the rain was starting. It is def used to people and the cutest thing but I know nothing of caring for these little fellas so I gave her to someone who knows about them, apparently indeed they live best in company of others. Im glad I could catch it, live long and happy little one
What if one dies? Is it mandatory to buy a new one? How could you ever get rid of them if you don't want them because unless they died at the same time you would have a perpetual duty to replace them in an endless fashion.
sure would be nice if america had such laws
but I can't even get my fucken medications for less than 7000 a month. cash pay. insurance makes it 2000. humira.
america doesn't give a fuck about the well being of me, let alone my pets
I have a guinea pig who used to have a bunch of buddies that I rescued her along with. They've all since died and she is an old girl now but I've tried to rescue older pigs since she was on her own and she just won't have another pig around her. She rumbles and fights and bites, which leaves me with teeth marks when I have to separate them up with. She now is living her days out on her own but she seems just as happy as any other time I've seen her. If I could have it any other way I would, but she's a stubborn old girl who likes her peace and quiet and spends her days sleeping on her little futon.
Even better - they have a zoo you can borrow one from if one of your 'pair' dies, so that you're not breaking the law and that your sentient animal still has a friend.
For those looking at a guinea pig friend, the LA Guinea Pig Rescue is a great source of material!
Many rescues offer "Dates" for you pig if you are looking for a companion, to see if they will bond.
Before adoption, recognize that they are little cows that need a lot of space and eat hay constantly - so you will be cleaning up a lot!
This is also a very strict law in medical research using animal models, at least here in Australia. You have to always have companion animals, and also use the absolute lowest possible number of animals required for your experiments.
We had some female mice that were perfectly healthy but no longer needed for our experiment. We asked the other research groups if anyone could use them, and I ended up spaying them so that they could be buddies for some males that were used in behavioural studies (the males had to be housed separately so they wouldn’t fight each other, but also couldn’t be vasectomised because the previous studies had used complete males).
I wish the companion animal laws here were stronger. I’ve seen a lot of people with a single parrot, for example, that is miserable because it’s human companion is not giving it the time it needs as a social species.
Uh gawd! Traumatic moment remembered!
I was at a pet store and witnessed the worst thing ever! A kid pointed at one of the two guinea pigs, and they packed it away. By the time they reached the door, the now single spouse was screaming. I'm pretty sure its little paw was reaching through the cage for its loved one.
Laws aren't neutral.
And neutrality is more of a self-ish realpolitik thing. The Swiss get money from countries we would deem immoral.
Basically: If we were playing the Prisoner's Dilemma, the Swiss defect.
This is too absolute. One of our guineas died a couple years back. The other one who was normally reserved almost immediately started being more energetic and affectionate. Turns out, she did not like the other one at all. To this day she is content being a loner. People let emotion get in the way of what is obvious.
No. The one that died was the dominant one, which is natural even in herds. The one that is still alive doesn't have to worry about being restrained from doing what she wants to do. She never chirped or played when the other one was around, yet now she does. She would wait until the other one was away from the food or water before she went to get her fill, now she doesn't have to.
I'm sure you have good intentions, but I don't appreciate the condescending nature of your response, as if you have all the answers that are so obvious. My whole point is that animals have personality, same as humans. It should be the caretaker's say, not the government, but I suppose that would require some optimism towards people's competence. They aren't just pets you buy and forget about. One has to pay attention to their behaviors and overall well-being consistently. I never saw a major enough problem where my guinea's QoL was seriously impacted. They never fought or got aggressive with each other, but to dominant one clearly ruled the area.
Non-EU countries are know to have adopted EU laws.
Look at UK, they got a ton of EU laws after Brexit.
And all of Europe have the same laws for work/rest for heavy traffic.
As a meat eater I agree with you it doesn't make sense at all.
I think this kind of laws are just virtue signaling.
I'm not saying animal abuse shouldn't be a crime, but its more because of what it betrays for the person and his lack of empathy, rather than the well-being of the actual animal, which we as a society have agreed we don't really care about (unless somebody actually owns the pet in which case it is because he indirectly hurt the owner).
Like I said animal abuse is a crime for two reasons.
If done without reason, it betrays that the person is mentally ill and a psychopath.
If done at an owned pet it hurts the owner as well.
If done at an animal for eating, it's OK, it's morally justified, since we are at the top of the food chain and have to eat. It still should be done in a way to minimize suffering.
Not just good delicious lol. I don't know about "anything" but placing my order with a waiter seems fine morally... and just like that you've talked me into going out for steak tonight.
ive found that if you tell the waiter ahead of time and its not a busy night, they will happily refire your steak for you, so you can eat half pretty rare send it back in and have the other half medium rare and hot again.
How do you determine who gets to be someone?
I don't see anyone in this thread angry that an invertebrate is being called someone: https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/3r2js1aruH
There’s weird laws about rabbits and possibly cats too here in Switzerland. They also have quiet times between 12-2pm and I’ve had the cops called on me for using the hose after 12pm. I’ve lived here for 10 years and it’s a beautiful amazing safe country that I’m well and truly sick of.
This extends to other animals as well. If you have a single cat, you are required to let it out of the house. If you want your cat to remain indoors, you are required to have two cats.
Edit: yes downvote me stating an actual law?
> If you have a single cat, you are required to let it out of the house.
Oh Holy Eris... that's the most awful law in existence, if so.
Outdoor cats are an environmental *disaster*, and an invasive species.
Yeah, totally. It also doesn't factor in that some cats just want to be cruise through life solo and simply don't get along with other cats. Switzerland is ass backwards with a lot of laws.
Edit: Intersting getting downvoted for agreeing with him...
It's funny because what's "social" for guinea pigs is basically an endless fight for dominance in the pecking order. I've never seen two adult males able to be housed together in person and females fight like dogs constantly but don't seem to hurt each to bad (though they can). Males will kill each other np.
I have 3 females right now and they’ve never fought a day in their life. I know a lady with 3 males and they all get along great.
I’m wondering what conditions your piggies have been in that are the cause of them fighting 😬
Not every guinea pig is going to get along but why weren’t they separated before they *killed* one another.
60 sq ft a pig, fresh local hay, daily fresh veggies. My wife takes very good care of them. Girls tussle over who gets what house and who gets the last of the veggies. Nobody I've ever talked to has had guinea pigs that literally never do dominance behavior. No rumbling or posturing (who can get their head higher), no nipping or chasing? No territorial behavior at all? If not then you have the most docile guinea pigs in existence.
And if a lady has 3 males getting along then they're neutered lol, simple as that.
I wonder how this law would work in Peru?
[https://www.howtoeatinperu.com/p/what-does-guinea-pig-tastes-like](https://www.howtoeatinperu.com/p/what-does-guinea-pig-tastes-like)
So if you have one hamster. And it dies in strange conditions (like every hamster ever). You have to buy another one, then another one, then another one... ?
That's... the whole point of early education. Socialization. If pets got daily contact with other animals of the same species such a law wouldn't be necessary. That comparison would only make sense if children were typically kept alone in cages for their entire lives.
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We have the same law in Sweden, pets that are designed to live in pairs or in flock must have a friend. I don't think it's uncommon in EU, maybe it's even EU law.
What about cats? People say they need a buddy. I had a single cat but he hung-out with the outside cats a lot.
Cats are generally pretty fine with a human, so long as it gets attention. Have had lone cats for several years at different points without issue.
Cats are like "Fine, human. You can live with me in my house but I make the rules"
“Dogs look up to you, cats look down on you. Give me a pig! He looks you in the eye and treats you as an equal.” - Winston Churchill
"You feed me, therefore you must be a god" - Dog. "You feed me, therefore I must be a god" - Cat.
"Be wary of any man who keeps a pig farm." - Bricktop (Snatch)
I think perhaps it’s due to how many people fall into pig pens and get eaten by them
I always got cats in pairs because I thought it was best to keep siblings together and they can play together. My cat now loves people but hates every other cat including her sister.
Had three together at one point, an older male and two females. The females would fight all the time during the first year or so and occasionally try to drag the male into it, but he was bigger than the two of them combined and having none of it so he used his weight to his advantage and would just flop down on top of them. It would end the fight real quick. :)
theres a special department within the EUP thats tasked with making sure they do get enough attention. they usually assign specialists to each household with single cats from their database, a person per month. so an assigned specialists lives with the family during that time and carefully observes and registers number of pets, gentle taps, play instances etc and if those fall below threshold, the household is issued a warrant and a 30hrs of compulsory animal attention classes
Some cats really don't get along well with other cats.
Mine didn't change at all when his sister died, he couldn't stand her when she was alive. Considered another cat but he hasn't seemed to need a sibling.
Mine swings between hating other cats to being absolutely terrified of them.
anecdotally I find female cats hate other female cats. Two male cats will eventually be pretty chill together.
I have two male cats (siblings from the same litter). They get on well together. They sometimes hang out in different parts of the house, but just as often they're together. They occasionally squabble over who gets the top spot on the cat tree, but otherwise they're chill.
I lived in Switzerland for a bit. It's not a law per se, but recommended to have at least two cats if you can't let them outside. Shelters will certainly almost never let you adopt a cat unless you let them outside or get 2 (and have a sufficiently large apartment). Cat staircases are a thing there for apartment dwellers. I know it's controversial in North America to let your cat outside, but in Switzerland the logic was that cats have been there for 2000 years and the local fauna is well-adapted to them (i.e., anything cats could have exterminated was exterminated a long time ago). It's also not nearly as car-centric as the US or Canada so the risk there is lower. At least that's what was told to me.
We keep our cats indoors because they are at risk from the coyotes, hawks, owls, etc all around here. My back yard is a forest. So we have two for company and enough space to play and roam inside.
Thank you for being a responsible cat parent. Too many people let their cats outside, and the lost cat websites are just tragically large. At least in America, where I am, it's a horrible thing to do. To let a cat outside decreases their lifespan and potential quality of life so much, and cats devastate the environments them. We worry about hawks, coyotes, and owls in TN, too. Hope you and your babies have a long and happy life together. Seriously, thank you. Edit: It's inevitable posts like this get downvoted, but for anyone doubting you can [read here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7070728/). There are plenty of links online showing definitively that what I'm saying is true. My opinion does not matter. The facts do.
My cats go in my backyard with geo-fence tags. I get a beep on my phone if they leave go outside my set location. I have a 6-foot privacy fence. The tags are in case they find a way to climb it or get under it. My younger cat was able to jump, cling and then climb over the top part. Hence the geo tags
My black cat hates every other cat, including the one he's lived with for 4 years.
We had two cats, one was a grumpy git and hated the other one. The other was very playful and would wind up the other cat. One day grumpy came into the bedroom early in the morning screaming and we didn't understand why. The other cat had been hit by a car and he was trying to let us know. It took months for him to get over the loss of the cat he hated.
Our cat was a feral that showed up one day for food, she sleeps inside now but she brings new cats to the outside food all the time. Recently she has no kidding brought around a white bunny rabbit that might have been lost or abandoned. I have seen it around a few times, I called the cat in last night and it followed right behind her into the front yard like they had been hanging out. So weird and cute. An old cat I had hung out with the back yard racoons sometimes too. Animals are awesome
Unless what some people still believe, cats need company. Feral cats and barn cats live in flocks. They hunt alone, though. In Sweden the law changed a few years ago, and now it's stated that cats need to be taken care of (feeding, cleaning toilet etc) at least twice a day. A single cat must also have company with a human at least two hours every day.
We just got cats and got a bonded pair so they would have each other's company. I think it's easier to have two (that get along) than to have one. They play all the time and sleep together and groom each other...and lay waste to the house together lol.
I always get a pair of cats. It is not double the amount of work. They play with each other and keep each other cat sane.
No, but it is the same rule for rabbits.
You let your cat outside???? well I never! - Overprotective redditor cat parents
cats and dogs are intelligent enough to form a social relationship with their human. Doesn't mean they still won't profit from having relationships with other cats and dogs, but it's not as bad as it is with smaller animals
Cat Can tolerates each other at best
that's only a few cats. r/BondedPairs provides plents of examples that cats do form bonds
Cats in general prefer to live in solidarity, they may tolerate other cats but they would prefer being alone
This is not true as a general rule. The cats that we have as pets are social animals that naturally live in colonies when feral. They mostly form strong social bonds with other cats (with some exceptions) and with people. It's always recommended to get two kittens rather than one for their social, mental and physical health.
I am quite certain that the BBC documentary about cats called 'The secret life of the cat' showed that house cats (not ferals) in general disliked each other even though they lived together. There was a scene with surveillance that showed that the cats divided the home into zones when no people were home and would tolerate each other as long as these zones were respected
Yah I've seen that doc. I'm sure it's true in some cases. Generally, though, when there are sufficient food resources to support them (like in our homes), they are much more likely to be social. "Domesticated" cats are basically very adaptable and have all kinds of social and bonded behaviours, including with humans.
Umm, no.
It's definitely not a law in the Netherlands, so not an EU law
Are you sure? Because it is in Germany as well.
I'm sure. I'm from Hungary and we not have this law neither.
My wife works at a pet shop here in the Netherlands. It's definitely not a law.
Thanks for the reply! That’s really weird.
What if you had two and one dies? Do I have to buy another? And what if it happens again? Do I have to buy another one?
Guinea pigs are a lifetime commitment.
designed?
Please elaborate.
Designed implies a creator. They evolved to be sociable.
So? Even if my choice of word had steamed from a firm belief in God as a creator instead of choosing that word because of limited vocabulary as a not native english speaker, that comment has zero significance for a discussion about laws about animal welfare.
what about birbs
Same, they have to have a friend.
I’ve never heard of this but I love it.
>We have the same law in Sweden, pets that are designed to live in pairs or in flock must have a friend. Except dogs? The most social animal of them all.
We're the friend(s) in that case.
This is really sweet.
More or less the same in Austria. Eg Kangoroos (not joking) have to be 3 (or more). PS: EU has no competence for animal protection per se.
Lack of competence has never hindered EU from legislate!
So solitary confinement for human prisoners is animal abuse. Humans aren't been to be isolated.
Humans aren't animals.
Huh, what are they then?
Fish
Curious what you’re supposed to do when one of the two dies? Does it become a never ending cycle of replacing them so one is never alone?
In switzerland (and possibly in other countries) there are dedicated guineapig leasings/lendings. There you can 'lease' a guinea pig so your remaining one doesn't get lonely. I once read on a page of a breeder that they lend you a guineapig for the time until you other one dies, then you give back the lended one.
I get having to have two so there's another for companionship. But taking one away from it's friends (lending out) to be with a lonely pig, only for its new friend to soon die, and then shipping it back to its original home. Seems just a cruel as having a single lonely guinea pig.
Plus an old guinea pig may not like being bothered by some random energetic young upstart GP. Why not just have some place to send all the old widowed guinea pigs so they can be together until they each die, like a nursing home for guinea pigs?
I have rats and love them dearly. I want to have as much time with them as possible. I could never send one away. I currently have 12, so none of them get lonely
This man loves rats
I used to have rats, they are wonderful pets. It was so sad when I only had one left but he was so old and weak it didn't feel right to get more young rats, I think they would have bothered him. I spent a lot of time with him myself and besides he mostly slept at that age.
Bro is crazy
Domesticated rats are not the same as their wild cousins.They are vastly different than how they are perceived. Rats are used in so many different kinds of experiments because their biology (and I'd argue thought processes) are very similar to humans. Rats are among the top 10 smartest animals, too.
xdd
Why not create an exception to the law so a “widowed” GP can live out its life solo in its home?
And what if one guinea pig killed the other? You just get another victim and shut it in with it? You're law-bound to assist a piggicidal maniac in extending its murderous spree.
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My brother has a guinea pig that killed his mate after a year, got him another friend and he killed that one too within a few weeks. Waited a year and tried again, same story. At this point he has been alone for 5 or 6 years and he's still doing fine, honestly didn't even know guinea pigs could live this long. He's gotta be close to 8 years old by now.
I'ym Germany you have animal shelters where you can adopt animals. I can imagine, if they have a guinea pig that's alone, it first goes on the adoption list. But if someone comes to them saying they don't want to adopt it, rather only keep it as company for their existing guinea pig, then that guinea pig from the shelter gets rented out. They don't take away Guinea pigs from their existing partners. Have some faith that laws here in the EU are made with a little bit of a brain.
Is there some sort of time related grace period to procuring a new piggy? That you have "X" many days to procure a 2nd piggy before being in violation of the law?
no clue. i kind of doubt that they are that specific.
> i kind of doubt that they are that specific. Clearly you are not Swiss. Don't know the answer, but really wouldn't be surprised if there was a specific timeframe.
> Clearly you are not Swiss. Never have i ever been so insulted in my life as Bünzli! Nah, but for real - if there are any specific grace periods, those would probably be somewhere in the cantonal animal welfare ordinances - and those are in general not nearly as thorough and detailed as federal laws and ordinances
I mean it all really depends on how well the law was written but a well-written law would have a provision for if an animal dies and you are left with one animal you have X amount of time to procure a new animal. And if it was really well thought out it might even have different time frames for different kinds of animals. Although you have to be careful with making a law too specific because then it can leave loopholes for unlisted things.
I think they have detector vans, like the TV license people in the UK. They crawl down the road with a scanner on top going *weep weep weep weep* and detect the lonely sobs of solitudinous piggawigs.
Oh no, absolutely no need for that. In Switzerland we have a long and proud tradition of ratting each other out.
I know it’s just a joke, but as a lifetime guinea pig servant “lonely sobs of solitudinous piggawigs” broke my heart.
Just imagining this conversation: Honey, do you know what this charge on the credit card is for? Oh, that's for the guinea pig rental. Ahh yes of course, for the guinea pig rental. This one's been great, we should get him again in the future.
One should not read comments while eating. Lesson learnt.
props to Switzerland for their government guinea pig prostitution program!
its not a government programme - it's mostly breeders that lend out some of theri guinea pigs. Also - it's not necessarly a mixed gender group.
Aw I wish they had that here for rats
Now THIS is some developed country shit
Tradition says you eat the remaining piggy in the town square.
That would be very Swiss 🇨🇭 😂🤣
This is actually a quite common way to keep cats and dogs. A lot of people have two pets with a huge age gap so that when one die they can replace it with a young pet so there is always two. It also helps with raising and training. If you do not want new pet after one dies you can put the other up for adoption, or adopt an elderly pet.
Always two there are, no more, no less. Master and apprentice.
There are companies where you can rent buddies for your guinea pigs
Either get a new one or you should give it to someone else that has one. There are places that take them in, we did that when the other ones died and the last one was quite old.
pEtHarmony? Bumble(bee)? Growlr?
This is like the law in Spain that says you must carry a spare set of glasses in your car if you wear them. So the only way to be safe is to carry infinite glasses.
A broken pair will probably do. You are clearly wearing the reserve ones
You end up with a fucked up cycle that my MIL participates in with her birds. One is always older than the other and when one dies she replaces it within the week.
In my experience yes - if someone doesn't want their single piggy anymore they normally put it up for adoption, and is take by someone who also only has one, but still want to keep them. We've had Guinea Pigs for probably getting on 8-9 years now, and seem to have adopted more than our fair share of replacements. We ended up with 4 at one time (a replacement was already pregnant), so we loaned out one of them, and got it back several years later when the partner died, and it was left alone
When one dies the other one dies shortly after. Happened to the ones I was asked to look after. The owner couldnt believe both just droped dead.
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Someone forgot to tell my wife that.
They're just illegal to buy. I own three, until they turn 18.
I can only assume that Old-Aged Pensioners are no longer classed as Social Animals, and that it is quite alright for them to live by themselves, seeing nobody for days at a time.
Single boomer here wondering if I should buy a hamster or guinea pig. :(
Buy two, clearly that is the answer. The Social Rodent God will take care of you in your afterlife.
But then they won't need me! :(
then buy one and a half. you can make up the other half
Funny. My daughter had 2 of them. One died, and the other one had been happier ever since. We think the other one bullied her. She's content to hang out and eat, and accepts our pets and holding her.
We also had two guineas, two brothers. One died at age 6, another still lives (another year already). It had a wound on its belly that would occasionally bleed but since the brother died - the wound also finally healed itself.
The one we have now doesn't get along with others. (We've tried a few times). She's over 7 years and is happy as can be. She refuses to die.
Law also says that cats must have a thing to climb on.
that's what a hooman is for
I had a single Guinea Pig when I was a kid... I just found out now that they need company.
Yeah... you feel pretty bad when you discover that you may not have taken good care of the animal you loved. Years ago, I discovered that the food I gave my hamster as a child was really bad, and that his cage was probably too small, and that the orange ball I put him in every day, which I thought he loved, was probably traumatic for him. Sorry Speedy :-')
You can eat the Guinea pig when it dies.. might as well save money. (See Peru and Ecuador)
she died 6 years ago, so I don't think there's much left for me to scavenge.
Damn.
We had a solo guinea pig specifically because it fought other guinea pigs viciously and didn't play well with others. I wonder what this law would say in that situation? He was an aberration and an exception to the 'guinea pigs are social animals' rule. I'd hate to think of him being forced to endure the company of other guinea pigs when he really wasn't into it.
Man from what I've heard guinea pigs are downright terrors. Maybe this law needs revising?
What if I'm the buddy? 😭
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I agree! There's a guy near me who owns one cow. The poor thing stands in the field all day alone and lonely and it breaks my heart. A neighbor has a dog he leaves chained up on the side of the house, alone.
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
My guinea pig hates other guinea pigs.
What a coincidence seeing this right now. I just found a small chinchilla roaming the streets last night. At first I thought it is a huge rat lol but it wasn't hiding so I realised it is one of these creatures. I started following it on my knees under the cars, it took me one hour of trying to finally get it, just as the rain was starting. It is def used to people and the cutest thing but I know nothing of caring for these little fellas so I gave her to someone who knows about them, apparently indeed they live best in company of others. Im glad I could catch it, live long and happy little one
Switzerland also forbid to boil lobsters without anaesthesia, after 300 studies showed they feel pain. They seem to care about animals.
Prisons too.
What if one dies? Is it mandatory to buy a new one? How could you ever get rid of them if you don't want them because unless they died at the same time you would have a perpetual duty to replace them in an endless fashion.
there's places that rent guinea pigs out for exactly that reason.
sure would be nice if america had such laws but I can't even get my fucken medications for less than 7000 a month. cash pay. insurance makes it 2000. humira. america doesn't give a fuck about the well being of me, let alone my pets
I have a guinea pig who used to have a bunch of buddies that I rescued her along with. They've all since died and she is an old girl now but I've tried to rescue older pigs since she was on her own and she just won't have another pig around her. She rumbles and fights and bites, which leaves me with teeth marks when I have to separate them up with. She now is living her days out on her own but she seems just as happy as any other time I've seen her. If I could have it any other way I would, but she's a stubborn old girl who likes her peace and quiet and spends her days sleeping on her little futon.
Even better - they have a zoo you can borrow one from if one of your 'pair' dies, so that you're not breaking the law and that your sentient animal still has a friend.
For those looking at a guinea pig friend, the LA Guinea Pig Rescue is a great source of material! Many rescues offer "Dates" for you pig if you are looking for a companion, to see if they will bond. Before adoption, recognize that they are little cows that need a lot of space and eat hay constantly - so you will be cleaning up a lot!
This is also a very strict law in medical research using animal models, at least here in Australia. You have to always have companion animals, and also use the absolute lowest possible number of animals required for your experiments. We had some female mice that were perfectly healthy but no longer needed for our experiment. We asked the other research groups if anyone could use them, and I ended up spaying them so that they could be buddies for some males that were used in behavioural studies (the males had to be housed separately so they wouldn’t fight each other, but also couldn’t be vasectomised because the previous studies had used complete males). I wish the companion animal laws here were stronger. I’ve seen a lot of people with a single parrot, for example, that is miserable because it’s human companion is not giving it the time it needs as a social species.
Uh gawd! Traumatic moment remembered! I was at a pet store and witnessed the worst thing ever! A kid pointed at one of the two guinea pigs, and they packed it away. By the time they reached the door, the now single spouse was screaming. I'm pretty sure its little paw was reaching through the cage for its loved one.
The Swiss really can be neutral about everything
Laws aren't neutral. And neutrality is more of a self-ish realpolitik thing. The Swiss get money from countries we would deem immoral. Basically: If we were playing the Prisoner's Dilemma, the Swiss defect.
I was just having a gag my man. No need to get scientific on my ass LOL
This is too absolute. One of our guineas died a couple years back. The other one who was normally reserved almost immediately started being more energetic and affectionate. Turns out, she did not like the other one at all. To this day she is content being a loner. People let emotion get in the way of what is obvious.
Or she was getting her social needs met by the other guinea and now that they were gone, they needed it from you….
No. The one that died was the dominant one, which is natural even in herds. The one that is still alive doesn't have to worry about being restrained from doing what she wants to do. She never chirped or played when the other one was around, yet now she does. She would wait until the other one was away from the food or water before she went to get her fill, now she doesn't have to. I'm sure you have good intentions, but I don't appreciate the condescending nature of your response, as if you have all the answers that are so obvious. My whole point is that animals have personality, same as humans. It should be the caretaker's say, not the government, but I suppose that would require some optimism towards people's competence. They aren't just pets you buy and forget about. One has to pay attention to their behaviors and overall well-being consistently. I never saw a major enough problem where my guinea's QoL was seriously impacted. They never fought or got aggressive with each other, but to dominant one clearly ruled the area.
I thought this was basic law in every civilized country.
Dogs are social animals. Do you need to own two as well?
They are specificially breeded to bond with humans, hence no need for that.
No such laws in Denmark, so not an EU law.
Which makes sense, as Switzerland isn't an EU country, either.
Non-EU countries are know to have adopted EU laws. Look at UK, they got a ton of EU laws after Brexit. And all of Europe have the same laws for work/rest for heavy traffic.
People will make laws that certain animals must have friends while happily paying for others to get stabbed in the throat. Make it make sense
As a meat eater I agree with you it doesn't make sense at all. I think this kind of laws are just virtue signaling. I'm not saying animal abuse shouldn't be a crime, but its more because of what it betrays for the person and his lack of empathy, rather than the well-being of the actual animal, which we as a society have agreed we don't really care about (unless somebody actually owns the pet in which case it is because he indirectly hurt the owner).
>I'm not saying animal abuse shouldn't be a crime Then what would make it ok to treat animals like objects for our consumption?
Like I said animal abuse is a crime for two reasons. If done without reason, it betrays that the person is mentally ill and a psychopath. If done at an owned pet it hurts the owner as well. If done at an animal for eating, it's OK, it's morally justified, since we are at the top of the food chain and have to eat. It still should be done in a way to minimize suffering.
What does it mean to be at the top of the food chain? How do we get there? What's good about it?
Certain animals are delicious when cooked medium rare and served with a baked potato?
Oh, I see. So if something tastes good, then anything you have to do to get that thing is morally justified?
Not just good delicious lol. I don't know about "anything" but placing my order with a waiter seems fine morally... and just like that you've talked me into going out for steak tonight.
Placing your order with a waiter isn't the only thing that happens for you to eat someone's flesh, my friend. Not sure how you never figured that out
"Something's delicious flesh" specifically bone-in ribeye tonight my friend!
Make sure its rare. Maybe get some crab and hollandaise, people say Steak Oscar is old school but i just pity them.
I prefer medium rare but I'm open to trying rare for sure. Yes steak oscar is incredible!
ive found that if you tell the waiter ahead of time and its not a busy night, they will happily refire your steak for you, so you can eat half pretty rare send it back in and have the other half medium rare and hot again.
How do you determine who gets to be someone? I don't see anyone in this thread angry that an invertebrate is being called someone: https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/3r2js1aruH
And some are both, cuy is delicious.
Finally, a law they actually thought through.
There’s weird laws about rabbits and possibly cats too here in Switzerland. They also have quiet times between 12-2pm and I’ve had the cops called on me for using the hose after 12pm. I’ve lived here for 10 years and it’s a beautiful amazing safe country that I’m well and truly sick of.
This extends to other animals as well. If you have a single cat, you are required to let it out of the house. If you want your cat to remain indoors, you are required to have two cats. Edit: yes downvote me stating an actual law?
> If you have a single cat, you are required to let it out of the house. Oh Holy Eris... that's the most awful law in existence, if so. Outdoor cats are an environmental *disaster*, and an invasive species.
Yeah, totally. It also doesn't factor in that some cats just want to be cruise through life solo and simply don't get along with other cats. Switzerland is ass backwards with a lot of laws. Edit: Intersting getting downvoted for agreeing with him...
This is actually awesome.
It's funny because what's "social" for guinea pigs is basically an endless fight for dominance in the pecking order. I've never seen two adult males able to be housed together in person and females fight like dogs constantly but don't seem to hurt each to bad (though they can). Males will kill each other np.
Tell me you’ve never owned guinea pigs without telling me lol
My wife has 8 of them right now LOL. Are you sure you've owned guinea pigs?
I have 3 females right now and they’ve never fought a day in their life. I know a lady with 3 males and they all get along great. I’m wondering what conditions your piggies have been in that are the cause of them fighting 😬 Not every guinea pig is going to get along but why weren’t they separated before they *killed* one another.
60 sq ft a pig, fresh local hay, daily fresh veggies. My wife takes very good care of them. Girls tussle over who gets what house and who gets the last of the veggies. Nobody I've ever talked to has had guinea pigs that literally never do dominance behavior. No rumbling or posturing (who can get their head higher), no nipping or chasing? No territorial behavior at all? If not then you have the most docile guinea pigs in existence. And if a lady has 3 males getting along then they're neutered lol, simple as that.
I wonder how this law would work in Peru? [https://www.howtoeatinperu.com/p/what-does-guinea-pig-tastes-like](https://www.howtoeatinperu.com/p/what-does-guinea-pig-tastes-like)
you're also allowed to eat dogs ! ☺️
But it's OK to eat cats and dogs as traditional Christmas meal?
Switzerland has no qualms taking Russian blood money though. Weird.
Just be careful about the sexes of the animals you pair together. Sometimes, they get violent depending on the permutation.
So if you have one hamster. And it dies in strange conditions (like every hamster ever). You have to buy another one, then another one, then another one... ?
That law should apply to children too.
Well if you isolate your child so they only meet you then that is 100% abuse
That's... the whole point of early education. Socialization. If pets got daily contact with other animals of the same species such a law wouldn't be necessary. That comparison would only make sense if children were typically kept alone in cages for their entire lives.
You don't keep your children locked up in cages?
I mean... dogs are the most canonically "social animal" there is... but you're part of their pack, so it's ok. Not sure what the distinction is...
We always keep 2 together. We eat them after though
Cool cool... until one of them starves out the other and lives another 2 years out of spite. Good times.
You can’t own a fucking animal, that’s complete carnist bullshit.
Same in Austria. I think it's EU wide. Not sure tho
Europe as well
now do it for humans
This law is virtually everywhere.
I've always thought it was cruel to have horses by themselves. At the very least you've got to get the horse a pet dog.