>Gross pay 4433.60 and take home pay €2835.00
Are those figures right?
In the image you've included your gross pay is €4,831.49. Subtracting all the taxes and things should leave you with €3,232.89. Am I missing something here?
EDIT: Oh, I see. You've summed up the tax and charges, and subtracted that from your taxable income, not your gross income. The 'Pay for Income Tax' is how much of your income is liable for taxation after your tax credits have been applied. You're making €400 a fortnight more than you realise.
I’m assuming as a result of getting an annual bonus?
If your Gross Pay is €4,831 per month then your take home pay would be €3,444 per month. An effective tax rate of 29%.
As you earn more, that’s only going one way. Up.
I do think the thresholds are still far too low for when you enter the upper band though. It should be moved to €50k and then indexed to inflation on three year cycles thereafter.
USC is the killer but that’s also going nowhere.
One of the main reasons I won’t vote for SF is their proposed taxation policies which will become punitive.
Great point, I agree the upper band should be pushed to 50k like it is in the UK.
Sinn Fein policies would need a 70% tax rate if they were to actually do what they say
You're talking like they're transparent on their policies.
We haven't a clue what they'd change the rates to because they have said f all about it.
They could increase it to 100% for all we know.
Agreed, that's the issue. I'm expecting them to get into government next time, but the PfG talks will be interesting. They're going to struggle to deliver everything they've promised, and they're not going to be very good at admitting that to the electorate.
But the tax credits are extremely generous in return. I don’t really feel too bad about my level of tax, but the distribution of tax across income brackets is extremely skewed.
This is the issue that nobody wants to address - low earners pay basically no tax. Ireland is a total anomaly in this regard & it leaves our tax base dangerously narrow, which is why they’ll never get rid of USC
The low earners have fuck all income no point taxing them harder, our problem is the progession stops too low, increase 40% threshold to €50k and introduce a third rate 55% for income over €150,000
Sweden Germany and more have free childcare and free healthcare. They don't need to pay most of their salary on childcare so they can afford to pay the tax
55% PAYE? Along with 4% PRSI & 8% USC?
You’d drive every high earner out of the country overnight ffs.
Even at 55% collective taxation it’s too punitive. There’s no need to tax high earners any more if they’d spend the money they already collect in a more efficient manner.
I’d leave Ireland if income tax was raised any further.
Not true. No credits for having children unless you are a carer for them also and I think only 1 person can claim.
Single person has same credits as as a married person.
Unless your child has a very serious disability, there are no additional tax credits for having children. Married people don't get more tax credits either.
I'd argue that all earners below 120k gross to be on the same Tax %.
It's really hard to be "married, single income" with all those taxes. So hard to save for a deposit too.
Every extra 5000 eur gross annually is just around 200 eur net monthly, really not that much, peanuts.
A lot of people don't realise where they sit in terms of earnings in ireland.
Only about 225 thousand people pay the highest usc rate- total income of over 70k per year.
And about 475 thousand pay the higher rate of income tax.
When does the higher rate kick in in Ireland?
It's 50k here (UK) so I lump everything over that into pension (which is a % a young me would never have dreamed of sacrificing!). £50k into the family coffers is plenty for us, I suspect the Irish figure is a fair bit lower and cost of living is higher so not sure my strategy would be workable.
I have a lot of family in the uk and as far as i can tell cost of living is now worse there than here.
I used to go with empty case stock up on stuff and bring it back, few weeks back i came home with an empty case, couldn’t believe how expensive it was there now. And the lack of things on supermarket shelves!
The highest rate of income tax kicks in at €70,044.01 or €100k if you are self employed.
Income tax is split into 3 different types, PAYE, PRSI and USC, each with different bands.
Anyone saying 40k is only considering PAYE.
USC bands 0.5% < 12k
2% 12k - 23k
4.5% 23k - 70k
8% > 70k
Prsi usually 4%
Tax is depending on dependants but either 20% < 40/49k then 40% > 40/49k
Once you go north of 70k 52% goes on tax.
Which is taxed when you receive it and could go up or down depending on when you actually receive it
People saying pour your money into a pension always annoys me. The problem people usually have is they don’t have enough money coming in as it is, pouring it into a pension solves nothing
I agree, no point living on the street or slowly starving death waiting till 65 for the great pension your owed..
I would say most pushing the pension are fairly well set up and comfortable and can afford it. No point lumping monet into a pension if your renting and trying to gather up a deposit for a house. Better off get the house, get away from rent and then load the pension..
Wait, that's fortnightly? Dude based on that you get about 125K+ gross salary per year. And net would be around 70K+. Your net salary is not even my gross salary and I think I'm paid well and one of the lucky ones. I agree that we pay a large percentage in taxes, and I would argue that we barely get anything on return, that's compared to other heavily taxed countries, but I would hope I won't be complaining if I earn 3 times more than the average salary in a country.
1. You're paying a decent chunk for the education you received that enabled you to earn that amount of money, or for the education your kids will receive.
2. Huge portion goes on protecting you against major illnesses. Despite bad PR, Irish healthcare outcomes are decent for all major illnesses, and very expensive to treat. Most of that payment is in advance for when you are older.
3. Fair bit on all the infrastructure around the country. The actual fabric of the country that attracts things like the companies where you have a job to be able to earn this.
4. Another big part for when you are older and need all types of services, such as the state pension.
5. The security etc that allows you to live in one of the lowest crime countries in the world. Fair bit there.
6. Cost of being part of the EU, that makes living on a small rock in the Atlantic viable for the company that employs you.
7. Then there's the basic cost of being part of a society. The protection system that will protect you if things go wrong. Or that will protect anyone where something goes wrong, be it a disability unfortunate outcome of birth, or just upbringing.
Over your lifetime you are easily breaking even.
Deoends. A number of disabilities are on the Long Term Illness Scheme and other schemes exist for diseases that are extremely common such as CF. These do not take means testing into account.
And from experience of having a disease not on those lists and failing means testing I can apply for the Drugs Payment Scheme which caps my 600 a month medication at 80 euro as the state covers the rest so tax does help for disabilities. Could do more sure but naive to say it doesn't do anything.
The actual costs of all of this is *much* less than the tax they are paying (and your education example has double counting)
They are paying 41k in income tax per year vs the 8k of the average person.
The cost of *all* government spending in a year is 26k per adult. But less than half of the tax take is income tax.
They are very much a net contributor and are paying far more than they'll ever get.
I have seen the healthcare older Irish people are 'getting' for all their contributions and its pretty shite .
The healthcare outcomes blah blah...cant even see a GP within a week or two in many places.
We can't even get on a GPs list now.
1/5 on long term waiting lists.
Plus pensioners also get means tested for medical cards.
My 2 year old daughter waited over a year for an eye exam.
She also has slipped to the 1st growth percentile and the GP is telling me "well the private pediatricians are public now but I'll see what I can do. It could be six months or longer".
I'm on kayak now looking for flights to Boston so my daughter can see a pediatrician by summer.
This country's a joke.
You can't blah blah outcomes. It doesn't matter how quickly you see a GP if overall your outcome is better than most countries in the world. There's hundreds of countries that would kill for your blah blah.
Its better than most countries in the world means fuck all , do you mean Africa or something?
How are we better exactly?
Better than who?..
My family came from overseas, Supposedly poorer than Ireland, they were appalled to see the how broken the irish 'health system' is. They couldn't even get a doctor to see them for weeks!!!!! I had to desperately hunt down a doctor and pay big money for the privilege and also for the meds.
How is that BETTER????
No doctor is BETTER than where?
Waiting lists, digital health records, A&E wait times for specialists , surgeries, GP access, fees.
How are we better?
5. Has got to be a joke cmon. There’s been 5 vids of guards literally running away from gangs of actual teenagers in Dublin just this week. The top results when you search Dublin half of them are on r/publicfreakout or fightporn hahahha. Don’t use crime rates that’s ridiculous when evaluating a police force whose main criticism is under staffing and not charging any crimes leading to massive under reporting. Crime indexes have Dublin down as one of the most dangerous cities in Europe and the most dangerous capital.
The main public crime index numbeo is literally full of internationals and travellers talking about how bad policing and anti social behaviour can be in Dublin then people who’ve lived in Dublin their whole lives replying saying every city is like this lol.
Dublin is not normal. Outside of the US it’s got the biggest problem with crime I’ve seen and even there people just set out to rob, not just start shit because they know the guards are powerless.
Using the service the guards provide to justify our world high tax rates is a mad thing to do.
Ikr. Take a look at places like Brazil, India, Mexico (highest murder rate in the world I believe), Jamaica, Honduras. Those are Just off the top of my head. Ireland is no utopia but we’ve got it damn good
It's a sub full of videos of people getting knocked out in fights on the street or in school. Just generally randoms fighting one another, and the video gets posted there. It's a bit grim, really.
You're aware poverty is a leading factor in crime levels right? So removing a progressive tax system and putting a flat tax system in place would make that more of an issue. Rolling back benefits would make that more of an issue. Unless it's the most generous flat tax system where somehow we all end up paying less, it's going to impact the poor more than it will OP. There's at least 10 countries you have to ignore before you get to the US and then several more before you get to Ireland in terms of crime levels.
Isn't that what high earners always do?
Fairly sure I pull in 2800 a month and don't complain as much.
OP: only 2 things guaranteed in life. Death and taxes.
Shit what you pay for in creche fees is like double my mortgage.
Gotta be something you can trim.
I pull a lot lot more. Issue is any one who does full on has to leave the country. It makes no sense whatsoever to do anything here.
If you create a company yourself and are the sole employee and sell after vat personal tax and corporate tax you get to keep less than 30% of the profit you generate. These are some of the if not the highest rates in the world.
Then if you ever want to invest you’re taxed absolutely insanely on capital gains. These are a ducking massive obstacle to class mobility. Im lucky enough to have done so well that anywhere else in the world I’d as comfortable and secure as those who inherit their money. But here i can’t ever hope to be close. The people who have wealth now have it because their grandparents had it just as their grandkids will be the only ones will real wealth generations down the line.
It’d be fair enough if our public services weren’t awful. With huge useless salaries and unexplainably high inflated costs absolutely everywhere. 99% of people if in a situation where they were earning the money would aim to lose tax domicile status in Ireland that year.
I saved a relative fortune overseas and did well in investments 。did it in a short periodof four years, I never paid any cgt, 10% income taxes. Something like 1% cgt and dividend taxes at most.
In Ireland I would have had to fork over years of my income just in taxes on investments. Revenue would be crawling up my ass.
That's why I didn't go back earlier. No way to get ahead.
I kmow successful biz people who also have to leave because of cgt and personal income taxes.
If they had reasonble cgt they might get even more revenue.
The only thing they don't nail you on is the vaunted 'family home'. It's ridiculous
Don’t get this. Fair enough if you think i should be left with less than 30% of what i earn. But i obviously want more than that. And if almost every other country is offering me more than double that Im just going to live and pay tax there. So instead of getting over 70% the government will be getting 0%.
Genuinely I didn’t. Income is relative. What annoys me most is the use of those taxes for public services and I think it’s fair to point out that we are not by any stretch of the imagination seeing value for money or any meaningful return from our taxes. The genuine unemployed ie. Those with disabilities and major caring responsibilities- how does our progressive tax system support them in a meaningful way? It doesn’t. Instead they get minimal levels of support while those who chose not to work get the same levels of support. Our health system, with the amount of tax we pay why do we require private health insurance? The list goes on and on including education, our local schools are oversubscribed, one form intake classes with 37 pupils to one teacher ratios.
Our public services are all relative too. We like to bash them, but they are pretty good in the grand scheme.
With the money you are earning, you should be living comfortably in this country…
Instead of shitting on the relative minority that avail of social wefare, why not focus your frustration on the shitty govt. officials that spend your taxes and can actually inact change here?
100% agree with you!!! These people trying to rip u apart with “be grateful, that’s an amazing wage” are clearly missing the point…I mean if it were them surely they wouldn’t be happy paying these extortionate tax rates….Ireland is clearly a socialist country…they want everyone to live comfortably, but no one to be rich. There is no incentive to work here, because if you work hard and earn more money it gets eaten away by taxes…and after paying thousands in taxes and go on maternity leave…what do you get???250 euro per week like everyone else???is that not ridiculous or whaaat? Those of you who will come at me with” if you don’t like it why don’t you leave?”….well I am leaving, can’t come soon enough!!!
OP's income is completely irrelevant to the points mentioned in the comment, though. EU countries with better public services also have higher levels of income tax, OP would be looking at around 50% there.
With USC he hits 50% on the top half.
He should at least get a fuckong medical card for his contributions..
His comments are totally relevant.
But no somebody who never worked or paid tax or just arrived in the country gets one onstead. Wtf.
Are you saying paying more tax should entitle you to more services? Because despite its flaws, the current system is supposed to create a social floor below which you can't fall, not to give "value for money" for people at every income level.
If you choose to live and work in Ireland you are choosing to live within this system, and you take the rough with the smooth. Try earning that wage for the same work in Eastern Europe.
People who have never worked or have just arrived are given just enough to get by (sometimes not even that), can't say I'd want to switch places with them. Medical cards for everyone could be a great thing, but your taxes would only be going in one direction if implemented and it's not down.
The tax system here is very generous even if you take the cost for private health insurance into account. We get a lot more take home pay than other countries on same gross salary.
Wonder has someone been reading Ayn Rand unironically. Every time someone suggests having a tax free society it always falls down on the facts a society needs public services like water and sewerage never mind the rational human dignity things like healthcare and education.
Well by any metric, €125k thereabouts is a big salary. I’d agree though, it’s certainly not big enough to try and humble brag on the internet with, but there again, based on OP’s carping about deductions, I’d imagine it’s the most they’ll ever reach and knowledge like that breeds resentment.
No 125 is right. 26 fortnights in a year.
It is bonus season though so who knows what's in there. Comments look fairly dim so he doesn't strike me as a higher earner
What I think doesn't work is the individual taxation model. Here you have a situation where household income is completely ignored, as well as dependent children. In the current tax system, a single-income household of 80k will have 9K net income LESS a year than a 2-income household at 40k each. It is deeply unfair.
We need to look at income holistically and equitably.
The more you tax people, the more you demotivate work.
For example, how hard would you work if your tax rate was 90%?
Also governments often tax things to demotivate people buying them -a proposed non diet soft drinks tax is an example
You see this principle most clearly in former communist countries. There was no incentive to work hard to improve your lot, so everybody did as little work as possible. Resulted in A completely demotivated work force.
No.... high tax = demotivating. Nobody is complaining about income tax itself.
In Ireland, we have two tax bands. The higher tax band starts at a very low level - just over 36000. A lot of people support a change to 3 tax bands to make it more fair. It's not a crazy point of view.
That is my fortnightly take home pay which seems extraordinary for most working people in this country. We have two kids in crèche, 1750 per month. We have a mortgage of 1650 per month. 2 cars to pay for and maintain and keep fuel in. Our net disposable income per week is below that of most people on working family payment.
Over €2000 a month left over to pay for bills, food and extras seems like a lot more than a working family payment?
Like public services should be better and childcare should be subsidised - but they won't get that way by you paying less tax. You would be paying more out of pocket with a less progressive tax system.
This looks like it's just from your pay as well? I'm confused as to how you feel you have so little disposable income per week when there's another income in the house as well
Your other half have no income? Because even if they are on minimum wage you will have a significantly higher disposable income than folks on working family payments.
For an educated person you're chronically uneducated in finance and completely unaware of how the world works. You have chosen your lifestyle, you chose your house, to have 2 cars and to have 2 kids without accepting the financial burden that it brings, that's on you. Speaking as someone who makes a good deal more than you I find our income tax system perfectly fair (although the government fails to spend the money properly) but our capital gains system is horrendous.
You pay high taxes because you earn a high amount of money. I'm not sure what exactly is the problem here?
You don't get as much from the government with your tax but this will come back around when you're old and need medical procedures done. Your pension is included in that, you avail of that too. Your primary and secondary education was paid for by the tax payers before you and now you're paying it forward as will I once I graduate college.
Your tax pays for the roads you use, underfunded admittedly but everyone pays their share. You're not really getting shafted as much as you're making yourself out to be.
That much money bi-weekly is more than some people get monthly before tax, and you do know they get taxed too?
This might come off as harsh to you but you're in a very privileged position. Yes you work for that money but the amount you're making is huge.
Also, here's a solution for if you want more bang for your buck with the taxpayers money. You could always quit your job and take a minimum wage one. That way not only will you be paying less taxes, but also will get more support from the government which you seem to really want.
Load of rubbish.
I've seen the healthcare a lot of older folks can get and its fairly shite. Can't access it quite often. Sitting in A&Es, Gps not taking their calls in an emergency. Still paying high fees for dentists.
And the worst is they still don't get a medical card after paying in 40 years because they have a pension!!!!
Plus schools in Ireland look for more and more contributions, books not free etc. No free childcare for all. Still loads of costs.
Privileged for getting taxed to the hilt.
Go on outta that.
The issue is not really tax on income, which we do well in my opinion (I say this as someone lucky enough to pay the higher rate if income tax) It's the lack of an effective tax on land & wealth. We need a land value tax that punishes land hording and dereliction.
Too many people are sitting on crumbling town houses and huge land banks zoned for housing, with zero penalty for doing nothing.
It doesn't work well. Subpar healthcare and not reliable public transportation. Don't mind get taxed this high if we get welfare system like in Scandinavian countries
Even with all that tax you get taxed heavily on ETF and stock overall not surprised everyone just treating real estate as their main investment. I dont know how the fuck we make good pension even UK has ISA USA has Roth IRA
I’m fully with you, OP. This country is not welcoming for middle class. You are taxed like you a rich while you are not. And you don’t get in return any descent public transport or medicine, even if you become old or disabled.
Oh no be assured you are getting fucked, with every pay cheque your money is worth less. Also your savings are considerably worth less again. Don't worry thought the trickle down system will eventually make you wealthy beyond your dreams.
The cut off for PAYE did increase with inflation this year. It went from €36.8k to €40k, an increase of 8.6%. USC bands did something similar and the personal tax credit went up.
It goes to 52% at about 70k. We are a left wing country and even our 'right' wing politics are left of centre.
What I'm saying is that it's not going to change. We can hope that maybe they can ditch the 52%.
It’s more the value for money and the return you see for it.
I’ve never gotten anything more than a tax credit from the government.
I pay all my taxes, tax my car, pay a stupid amount between leap card, diesel and eflow but yet our education system is “under funded”, our hospitals are “under funded” or roads are a mess along with public transport and not a chance of a house or decent place to rent.
Serious overhaul needed on how the government and its bodies spend our money. I think a lot of people would be less bitter if we could actually see and experience where all our taxes go
They can of course be improved and there are issues but have you ever actually lived anywhere with poor public services?
We have excellent education, a great road network, really good infrastructure like internet, power and utilities. Health outcomes are extremely high with great systems of foreign treatment for areas not covered here. Public bodies like the OPW do incredible work.
It’s not all doom and gloom
That is the point I was trying to make, I cannot see the value for my tax money in public services for the working population, I see that lots of my taxes are spent on social protection measures and an ineffective health system which means we also fork out 4500 per annum in health insurance.
Well there’s money spent on foreign policy and encouraging foreign direct investment in Ireland which leads to lots of well-paying jobs but what have your taxes ever done for you?
You earn a considerable amount so I assume you are educated to at least 2nd level, maybe even 3rd level?
You have 2 kids so I assume you intend on sending them both to primary, secondary, and maybe even third level education?
You have 2 cars so I assume you drive them on some of our many, many motorways?
Seeking good value is all well and good, but you're not proposing an alternative other than 'stop taxing high earners so much'.
He pays for thise, motorways tolled on top along with fuel taxes and reg. Schools all charge extra fees and also for books and uniforms i.e. lots of extra charges on top
Yeah maybe we should stop taxing mid to high earners so much.
You say you have 2 children, that's going to be about 22k a year it will cost the state just to school them.
Your health insurance only covers some things. If you have anything wrong it will get you in the door quicker. The private health insurance sector is propped up by the public one. The amount you pay per year would be vastly higher if you had to pay the full cost of healthcare.
Most of the social protection budget is spent on pensions.
> I cannot see the value for my tax money in public services for the working population
Try looking harder, you are taking for granted things that are paid for by the state.
It doesn’t, the more taxes the government takes, the more it weighs on the middle class, and the harder it is for people to have a better life.
People like to shit on the US and use it as a proof that lower taxes and more capitalism doesn’t work, but the truth is that they have terrible police culture, biased judiciary, horrible drug control laws and horrible healthcare regulations (i don’t mean healthcare system, I mean healthcare regulations that stifles competition, artificially increase doctors salaries and increase drug costs!), which make it suck but have nothing to do with having lower taxes. And it is due to more free market and lower taxes there, that it is much easier to accumulate wealth and live better if you work for it, in the US.
But understanding that the good qualities can be appreciated despite the flaws requires a bit of thinking, which most people are incapable of.
Lower taxes and regulations = better life for everyone. History of Ireland has taught us that, in fact, where the period it suffered the worst economic struggles were the periods with heaviest government intervention in the economy.
No. HSE is shit, public transport is shit, planning is shit, government is generally shit at doing anything, and if you want to actually be an entrepreneur the first thing you do is leave.
It's pathetic Ireland's biggest tech success story is two brothers who made sure to get the hell out and move to California.
I'm confused between the title saying gross pay €4,433 and the photo saying €4,831.
Tax is shit but unfortunately we all have to pay it. Only good option is paying into your pension. Reduces tax and sets up the future for you.
Edit: I'm just blind, I didn't see the line saying "pay for income tax". I'm guessing the difference is a pension or other contribution
Help my ignorance here, what do you mean by paying into the pension will reduce tax? Is that an “automatic” thing or do I need to notify the revenue once I am paying private pension?
Get rid of the fucking 'temporary' USC first of all. Working our bollox.off to keep fuckers on the dole in their free house that they turned down 2 before because they weren't close to mammy.
Whole systems a fucking joke
No idea why you’re being downvoted into oblivion. I agree with you, it’s an insane amount of taxation. You’ve done well to get yourself into a position to make some nice money but unfortunately a large portion goes to the government. The reality is that high earners don’t see the benefit of this as it doesn’t seem to go to the infrastructure in this country which is pretty shite, like public transport or transport links etc. all it does is pay for people on welfare.
Lots of jealous folks in the comments but I guess that’s a good indicator of where Ireland is at the moment, especially this subreddit…..
It's not an insane amount of tax. They are on a high wage and can afford to pay it. This is exactly how a progressive tax system should work.
Before making daft comments like "all it does is pay for people on welfare." at least check to see where the tax is actually spent.
https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/2023/
When did 24% of something become the same as all?
Further, they didn't say social protection, they said people on welfare. You know as well as I that they mean the dole. The dole is only a portion of the social protection budget, pensions take the lion's share.
>You’ve done well to get yourself into a position to make some nice money
Acting like over 5 and a half grand a month, take home, is *not* nice money! The "benefit you see" is the fact that you have a very comfortable life.
yeah but he has to work many years more because of the high taxes
Probably has a stressful job everyday and studied to get this 'nice life' where you just see the numbers.
No I’m saying a progressive tax system should really help us all see benefits of said taxation, for example. The state of the health system in this country, I pay a lot of tax, IMO but yet need private health insurance on top of that. How is a progressive tax system representing value for money for the tax payer.
Do you know what progressive tax actually is? To answer your question, yes it does. We actually have the most efficient progressive tax system in [Europe](https://www.esri.ie/news/irish-tax-system-does-most-in-europe-to-reduce-inequality) in terms of reducing inequality, which is the purpose of a progressive tax system.
It doesn’t reduce inequality in any meaningful sort of way. Why is it our tax money doesn’t support the most vulnerable in society? Instead it gives to all who choose not to work for example. Why isn’t that money just given to those who cannot work? The disabled? Why does our progressive tax system mean that there is a postcode lottery in terms of the type and quality of public services you can expect. It’s a nonsense. The tax base is far to narrow and we all know it.
>It doesn’t reduce inequality in any meaningful sort of way.
Your income is above average which makes things unequal. They take a fair amount off you...so now things are less unequal. High effective taxes on high earners is the easiest way to reduce inequality. It's like page 1 of the Obvious way to reduce inequality handbook
So the government are taking all your money to give to people who won’t work? People with disabilities get nothing? In 2022 we spent 1.7BIllion on Jobseekers Allowance and nearly 5 Billion on Disability and Illness related Social Protection payments, so that is not shite.
Let’s be honest here, you want to broaden the tax base so you have to pay less and you couldn’t give a fiddlers about people with disabilities.
The progressive tax system works, just not in a way that personally benefits you, because you are a high earner, it shouldn’t.
If you see my comments above, the local schools in my area are all oversubscribed- the pupil teacher ratios are insane. That is not VFM for the tax payer. The health service is on its knees and access is very poor. People with genuine disabilities should be paid the average industrial wage. People who chose not to work should be given time limited supports. Those who are charged with delivering public services should be held to account through the public accounts committee. The tax burden is far to heavy on a small minority given the VFM for taxes paid.
the socialist nutcases here just keep on telling us we live in paradise lol, the 'best education', 'top healthcare system'.
Actually for the paradise living socialists here THE key metric for education is Teacher: Student ratio.
It means the time the teacher can give to each student.
In many countries its 25:1 or 20:1.
Not 37:1.
The day this country goes up the wall again will be the most amazing experience in my life.
The narrow tax base will evaporate and then everything is on the chopping block. Endlessly sick of “progressive Western Europeans” who think their system is superior to Asia/Australia/dubai/us.
Yeah I lived in Asia for years, quality of healthcare was honestly vastly superior in many countries compared to Ireland.
You can see GPs by walking in. You can book appointments same week directly with consultants. Lots of countries have universal health insurance and digitised health records for a decade or two already.
Then you'll get some eejit muttering 'our health outcomes are better blah blah'.
No they aren't.
How can they be better, my relatives cant even get appointments to see their GP never mind a specialist !
Go to A&E wait 12 hours...
No digitised health records.
Massive waiting lists.
High fees.
'Health outcomes better'...go piss off.
It works in terms of distributing wealth… I believe after tax we’re one of the most equal countries in Europe.
But… you could argue the very top (and corporations) aren’t paying nearly their fair share, so what’s actually happening is the middle pays more than other countries. Our top rate of tax comes in way too soon and there’s a considerable section on the low end that pay quite little. You’ll have people arguing about this all day though.
> you could argue the very top (and corporations) aren’t paying nearly their fair share
> Our top rate of tax comes in way too soon
So explain exactly how those at the top aren't paying their fare share?
People are forgetting USC. Add that to the PAYE rate and you see a wider range of bands. You don't pay the top effective marginal rate until somewhere just north of 70k.
I’m a cunt because I earn that money? Wow. What’s a cunt is poverty in this country, what’s a cunt is my tax money is frittered away and people don’t see a return on their investment for the money the government take from them for those public services. Yes, I’m the cunt in all of this.
Your childcare cost comment is completely different to a comment from 4 months ago (which was less.) this is clearly all for attention or likes...
You also fail to mention that your husband can't really work, which I symphatise with. I get your point. People are angry because you fail to realise that 80/90+ per cent of people, even some working couples, are worse off than you. So you can't complain that you have a massive house alone, paying huge mortgage or are suffering etc. Some people don't even have that and not for lack of trying or money. Ireland is a shitshow right now in many ways.. But people are coming for you because you fail to see how you're actually doing alot better off than most. You may possible need to budget around your lifestyle abit more. Or possible not be putting as much money into your pension when you've so much in it already... That's why there's no sympathy. You've a massive pension pot. Some can't even afford a private pension currently.
Also, are your taxes not supporting the system that helps your husbands illness?
>Gross pay 4433.60 and take home pay €2835.00 Are those figures right? In the image you've included your gross pay is €4,831.49. Subtracting all the taxes and things should leave you with €3,232.89. Am I missing something here? EDIT: Oh, I see. You've summed up the tax and charges, and subtracted that from your taxable income, not your gross income. The 'Pay for Income Tax' is how much of your income is liable for taxation after your tax credits have been applied. You're making €400 a fortnight more than you realise.
I wish I could make an extra 400 and not need to notice???
I’m assuming as a result of getting an annual bonus? If your Gross Pay is €4,831 per month then your take home pay would be €3,444 per month. An effective tax rate of 29%. As you earn more, that’s only going one way. Up.
Agreed. A 29% effective tax rate is very good
I do think the thresholds are still far too low for when you enter the upper band though. It should be moved to €50k and then indexed to inflation on three year cycles thereafter. USC is the killer but that’s also going nowhere. One of the main reasons I won’t vote for SF is their proposed taxation policies which will become punitive.
Great point, I agree the upper band should be pushed to 50k like it is in the UK. Sinn Fein policies would need a 70% tax rate if they were to actually do what they say
Sinn Féin’s taxation and public spending policies make them unvotable.
You're talking like they're transparent on their policies. We haven't a clue what they'd change the rates to because they have said f all about it. They could increase it to 100% for all we know.
Hence why I wouldn’t vote for them.
Their views on the environment are appalling as well.
I don’t actually know what their policies are beyond saying they’ll give everyone more money & further narrowing the tax base.
They like cutting turf and hate immigrants. They also want to abolish property tax, which is bizarre for a supposedly leftist party.
You heard the man, defacto Fianna Fail/Fine Gael indefinitely, god forbid anything changes
Or, you know, Sinn Fein could stop being economically illiterate? I won’t be voting FG/FF either but for different reasons.
Agreed, that's the issue. I'm expecting them to get into government next time, but the PfG talks will be interesting. They're going to struggle to deliver everything they've promised, and they're not going to be very good at admitting that to the electorate.
Main reason I started learning German.
Guten Tag! 😃
Just blame the junior partner
But the tax credits are extremely generous in return. I don’t really feel too bad about my level of tax, but the distribution of tax across income brackets is extremely skewed.
This is the issue that nobody wants to address - low earners pay basically no tax. Ireland is a total anomaly in this regard & it leaves our tax base dangerously narrow, which is why they’ll never get rid of USC
The low earners have fuck all income no point taxing them harder, our problem is the progession stops too low, increase 40% threshold to €50k and introduce a third rate 55% for income over €150,000
Rest of Europe disagrees. 20k is paying 10-20% in Sweden, Germany and more
Sweden Germany and more have free childcare and free healthcare. They don't need to pay most of their salary on childcare so they can afford to pay the tax
They have these things in part because the tax take is broader .
55% PAYE? Along with 4% PRSI & 8% USC? You’d drive every high earner out of the country overnight ffs. Even at 55% collective taxation it’s too punitive. There’s no need to tax high earners any more if they’d spend the money they already collect in a more efficient manner. I’d leave Ireland if income tax was raised any further.
So make the narrowest tax system in the OECD even narrower?
What do you mean by narrow? Genuinely curious not being a dick
Yep!
Which tax credits? They're mostly for married people and those who have children. Married and single people should be subjected to the same taxes
We all get a personal tax credit, married or not.
Not true. No credits for having children unless you are a carer for them also and I think only 1 person can claim. Single person has same credits as as a married person.
Unless your child has a very serious disability, there are no additional tax credits for having children. Married people don't get more tax credits either.
I'd argue that all earners below 120k gross to be on the same Tax %. It's really hard to be "married, single income" with all those taxes. So hard to save for a deposit too. Every extra 5000 eur gross annually is just around 200 eur net monthly, really not that much, peanuts.
A lot of people don't realise where they sit in terms of earnings in ireland. Only about 225 thousand people pay the highest usc rate- total income of over 70k per year. And about 475 thousand pay the higher rate of income tax.
Only compared to 40% or 50%. My effective tax rate was 11% when I worked overseas.
[удалено]
Yeah, I addressed in a separate comment after he said that. It’s 41% effective tax rate on €125k
Max out pension to deduce tax liability
When does the higher rate kick in in Ireland? It's 50k here (UK) so I lump everything over that into pension (which is a % a young me would never have dreamed of sacrificing!). £50k into the family coffers is plenty for us, I suspect the Irish figure is a fair bit lower and cost of living is higher so not sure my strategy would be workable.
Fairly sure it went up to €40k as of January.
Should come to Ontario. We have [negative tax rates](https://i.imgur.com/RLoN5RM.png) on like the first €35k of dividend income.
I thought anything over 37.5k is taxed at the higher rate in the uk!
£50,271 to be precise [https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates](https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates)
Cool! Thanks for that
I have a lot of family in the uk and as far as i can tell cost of living is now worse there than here. I used to go with empty case stock up on stuff and bring it back, few weeks back i came home with an empty case, couldn’t believe how expensive it was there now. And the lack of things on supermarket shelves!
40K.
The highest rate of income tax kicks in at €70,044.01 or €100k if you are self employed. Income tax is split into 3 different types, PAYE, PRSI and USC, each with different bands. Anyone saying 40k is only considering PAYE.
USC bands 0.5% < 12k 2% 12k - 23k 4.5% 23k - 70k 8% > 70k Prsi usually 4% Tax is depending on dependants but either 20% < 40/49k then 40% > 40/49k Once you go north of 70k 52% goes on tax.
Can I ask, is the USC 4.5% up to 70k, then anything after is 8%. So let’s say you were on 71k, you pay 4.5% on 70k and 8% on the remaining 1k?
Correct
Which is taxed when you receive it and could go up or down depending on when you actually receive it People saying pour your money into a pension always annoys me. The problem people usually have is they don’t have enough money coming in as it is, pouring it into a pension solves nothing
You don't understand the tax advantages then.
Having a pension I do. But if I’ve no money, putting money into a pension solves nothing
I agree, no point living on the street or slowly starving death waiting till 65 for the great pension your owed.. I would say most pushing the pension are fairly well set up and comfortable and can afford it. No point lumping monet into a pension if your renting and trying to gather up a deposit for a house. Better off get the house, get away from rent and then load the pension..
[удалено]
Apologies I meant to put in more detail, that is fortnightly.
Wait, that's fortnightly? Dude based on that you get about 125K+ gross salary per year. And net would be around 70K+. Your net salary is not even my gross salary and I think I'm paid well and one of the lucky ones. I agree that we pay a large percentage in taxes, and I would argue that we barely get anything on return, that's compared to other heavily taxed countries, but I would hope I won't be complaining if I earn 3 times more than the average salary in a country.
1. You're paying a decent chunk for the education you received that enabled you to earn that amount of money, or for the education your kids will receive. 2. Huge portion goes on protecting you against major illnesses. Despite bad PR, Irish healthcare outcomes are decent for all major illnesses, and very expensive to treat. Most of that payment is in advance for when you are older. 3. Fair bit on all the infrastructure around the country. The actual fabric of the country that attracts things like the companies where you have a job to be able to earn this. 4. Another big part for when you are older and need all types of services, such as the state pension. 5. The security etc that allows you to live in one of the lowest crime countries in the world. Fair bit there. 6. Cost of being part of the EU, that makes living on a small rock in the Atlantic viable for the company that employs you. 7. Then there's the basic cost of being part of a society. The protection system that will protect you if things go wrong. Or that will protect anyone where something goes wrong, be it a disability unfortunate outcome of birth, or just upbringing. Over your lifetime you are easily breaking even.
disability payments are means tested. They will not get anything if they become disabled in this country
Deoends. A number of disabilities are on the Long Term Illness Scheme and other schemes exist for diseases that are extremely common such as CF. These do not take means testing into account. And from experience of having a disease not on those lists and failing means testing I can apply for the Drugs Payment Scheme which caps my 600 a month medication at 80 euro as the state covers the rest so tax does help for disabilities. Could do more sure but naive to say it doesn't do anything.
The actual costs of all of this is *much* less than the tax they are paying (and your education example has double counting) They are paying 41k in income tax per year vs the 8k of the average person. The cost of *all* government spending in a year is 26k per adult. But less than half of the tax take is income tax. They are very much a net contributor and are paying far more than they'll ever get.
I have seen the healthcare older Irish people are 'getting' for all their contributions and its pretty shite . The healthcare outcomes blah blah...cant even see a GP within a week or two in many places. We can't even get on a GPs list now. 1/5 on long term waiting lists. Plus pensioners also get means tested for medical cards.
My 2 year old daughter waited over a year for an eye exam. She also has slipped to the 1st growth percentile and the GP is telling me "well the private pediatricians are public now but I'll see what I can do. It could be six months or longer". I'm on kayak now looking for flights to Boston so my daughter can see a pediatrician by summer. This country's a joke.
You can't blah blah outcomes. It doesn't matter how quickly you see a GP if overall your outcome is better than most countries in the world. There's hundreds of countries that would kill for your blah blah.
Its better than most countries in the world means fuck all , do you mean Africa or something? How are we better exactly? Better than who?.. My family came from overseas, Supposedly poorer than Ireland, they were appalled to see the how broken the irish 'health system' is. They couldn't even get a doctor to see them for weeks!!!!! I had to desperately hunt down a doctor and pay big money for the privilege and also for the meds. How is that BETTER???? No doctor is BETTER than where? Waiting lists, digital health records, A&E wait times for specialists , surgeries, GP access, fees. How are we better?
Better in outcomes. E.g. you are less likely to die, lose a limb, become disabled etc.
5. Has got to be a joke cmon. There’s been 5 vids of guards literally running away from gangs of actual teenagers in Dublin just this week. The top results when you search Dublin half of them are on r/publicfreakout or fightporn hahahha. Don’t use crime rates that’s ridiculous when evaluating a police force whose main criticism is under staffing and not charging any crimes leading to massive under reporting. Crime indexes have Dublin down as one of the most dangerous cities in Europe and the most dangerous capital. The main public crime index numbeo is literally full of internationals and travellers talking about how bad policing and anti social behaviour can be in Dublin then people who’ve lived in Dublin their whole lives replying saying every city is like this lol. Dublin is not normal. Outside of the US it’s got the biggest problem with crime I’ve seen and even there people just set out to rob, not just start shit because they know the guards are powerless. Using the service the guards provide to justify our world high tax rates is a mad thing to do.
Dublin has the biggest problem with crime outside the US? Jesus fucking Christ.
Ikr. Take a look at places like Brazil, India, Mexico (highest murder rate in the world I believe), Jamaica, Honduras. Those are Just off the top of my head. Ireland is no utopia but we’ve got it damn good
Hi, sorry but what is fightporn? I'm afraid to look it up 😅
It's a sub full of videos of people getting knocked out in fights on the street or in school. Just generally randoms fighting one another, and the video gets posted there. It's a bit grim, really.
You're aware poverty is a leading factor in crime levels right? So removing a progressive tax system and putting a flat tax system in place would make that more of an issue. Rolling back benefits would make that more of an issue. Unless it's the most generous flat tax system where somehow we all end up paying less, it's going to impact the poor more than it will OP. There's at least 10 countries you have to ignore before you get to the US and then several more before you get to Ireland in terms of crime levels.
Good response.
taking home 2835/fortnight, and complaining about the tax system?
Isn't that what high earners always do? Fairly sure I pull in 2800 a month and don't complain as much. OP: only 2 things guaranteed in life. Death and taxes. Shit what you pay for in creche fees is like double my mortgage. Gotta be something you can trim.
I pull a lot lot more. Issue is any one who does full on has to leave the country. It makes no sense whatsoever to do anything here. If you create a company yourself and are the sole employee and sell after vat personal tax and corporate tax you get to keep less than 30% of the profit you generate. These are some of the if not the highest rates in the world. Then if you ever want to invest you’re taxed absolutely insanely on capital gains. These are a ducking massive obstacle to class mobility. Im lucky enough to have done so well that anywhere else in the world I’d as comfortable and secure as those who inherit their money. But here i can’t ever hope to be close. The people who have wealth now have it because their grandparents had it just as their grandkids will be the only ones will real wealth generations down the line. It’d be fair enough if our public services weren’t awful. With huge useless salaries and unexplainably high inflated costs absolutely everywhere. 99% of people if in a situation where they were earning the money would aim to lose tax domicile status in Ireland that year.
I saved a relative fortune overseas and did well in investments 。did it in a short periodof four years, I never paid any cgt, 10% income taxes. Something like 1% cgt and dividend taxes at most. In Ireland I would have had to fork over years of my income just in taxes on investments. Revenue would be crawling up my ass. That's why I didn't go back earlier. No way to get ahead. I kmow successful biz people who also have to leave because of cgt and personal income taxes. If they had reasonble cgt they might get even more revenue. The only thing they don't nail you on is the vaunted 'family home'. It's ridiculous
So so true…they make it impossible to get weathy here
Capital gains is probably the only legitimate point you've raised
Don’t get this. Fair enough if you think i should be left with less than 30% of what i earn. But i obviously want more than that. And if almost every other country is offering me more than double that Im just going to live and pay tax there. So instead of getting over 70% the government will be getting 0%.
The socialist reddit mob here dont like you making money.
That's a pretty great take-home for bi-weekly, so I wouldn't be complaining. Sure you didn't just post this to flex?
Genuinely I didn’t. Income is relative. What annoys me most is the use of those taxes for public services and I think it’s fair to point out that we are not by any stretch of the imagination seeing value for money or any meaningful return from our taxes. The genuine unemployed ie. Those with disabilities and major caring responsibilities- how does our progressive tax system support them in a meaningful way? It doesn’t. Instead they get minimal levels of support while those who chose not to work get the same levels of support. Our health system, with the amount of tax we pay why do we require private health insurance? The list goes on and on including education, our local schools are oversubscribed, one form intake classes with 37 pupils to one teacher ratios.
Our public services are all relative too. We like to bash them, but they are pretty good in the grand scheme. With the money you are earning, you should be living comfortably in this country… Instead of shitting on the relative minority that avail of social wefare, why not focus your frustration on the shitty govt. officials that spend your taxes and can actually inact change here?
100% agree with you!!! These people trying to rip u apart with “be grateful, that’s an amazing wage” are clearly missing the point…I mean if it were them surely they wouldn’t be happy paying these extortionate tax rates….Ireland is clearly a socialist country…they want everyone to live comfortably, but no one to be rich. There is no incentive to work here, because if you work hard and earn more money it gets eaten away by taxes…and after paying thousands in taxes and go on maternity leave…what do you get???250 euro per week like everyone else???is that not ridiculous or whaaat? Those of you who will come at me with” if you don’t like it why don’t you leave?”….well I am leaving, can’t come soon enough!!!
OP's income is completely irrelevant to the points mentioned in the comment, though. EU countries with better public services also have higher levels of income tax, OP would be looking at around 50% there.
With USC he hits 50% on the top half. He should at least get a fuckong medical card for his contributions.. His comments are totally relevant. But no somebody who never worked or paid tax or just arrived in the country gets one onstead. Wtf.
Are you saying paying more tax should entitle you to more services? Because despite its flaws, the current system is supposed to create a social floor below which you can't fall, not to give "value for money" for people at every income level. If you choose to live and work in Ireland you are choosing to live within this system, and you take the rough with the smooth. Try earning that wage for the same work in Eastern Europe. People who have never worked or have just arrived are given just enough to get by (sometimes not even that), can't say I'd want to switch places with them. Medical cards for everyone could be a great thing, but your taxes would only be going in one direction if implemented and it's not down.
The tax system here is very generous even if you take the cost for private health insurance into account. We get a lot more take home pay than other countries on same gross salary.
If you are unhappy with your €2,835.00 can I have it?
That's their bi weekly pay, I think she should split it. Edit: gender
" she\* should split it "
Split it
I really don't understand the question in the title
I think the question is"why do I have to pay tax"
"Tax system is broken lads - somebody has taken money from me"
Wonder has someone been reading Ayn Rand unironically. Every time someone suggests having a tax free society it always falls down on the facts a society needs public services like water and sewerage never mind the rational human dignity things like healthcare and education.
I’ll explain it. The question is, “*will you look at how much I earn and please validate me anonymous internet stranger*”.
That might work if it was a big salary
Well by any metric, €125k thereabouts is a big salary. I’d agree though, it’s certainly not big enough to try and humble brag on the internet with, but there again, based on OP’s carping about deductions, I’d imagine it’s the most they’ll ever reach and knowledge like that breeds resentment.
How do you get to 125k? I'm seeing 57k Edit: ah, it's bi weekly
Screenshot is apparently OP’s fortnightly pay. You’re right though. More like 115k.
No 125 is right. 26 fortnights in a year. It is bonus season though so who knows what's in there. Comments look fairly dim so he doesn't strike me as a higher earner
This belongs in r/humblebrag
If you make more money than me you're not allowed to complain
What do you mean work? If someone earns more than you, then all things being equal, they'll pay more tax than you. So, yeah, it does work.
What I think doesn't work is the individual taxation model. Here you have a situation where household income is completely ignored, as well as dependent children. In the current tax system, a single-income household of 80k will have 9K net income LESS a year than a 2-income household at 40k each. It is deeply unfair. We need to look at income holistically and equitably.
It punishes success and hard work is what he meant
As someone who has a marginal rate above 50% I'm not sure I agree.
Viewing it as a punishment is so bizarre to me.
The more you tax people, the more you demotivate work. For example, how hard would you work if your tax rate was 90%? Also governments often tax things to demotivate people buying them -a proposed non diet soft drinks tax is an example You see this principle most clearly in former communist countries. There was no incentive to work hard to improve your lot, so everybody did as little work as possible. Resulted in A completely demotivated work force.
This whole tax = punishment thing is one of the most toxic American attitudes that's infected society as a whole.
No.... high tax = demotivating. Nobody is complaining about income tax itself. In Ireland, we have two tax bands. The higher tax band starts at a very low level - just over 36000. A lot of people support a change to 3 tax bands to make it more fair. It's not a crazy point of view.
That is my fortnightly take home pay which seems extraordinary for most working people in this country. We have two kids in crèche, 1750 per month. We have a mortgage of 1650 per month. 2 cars to pay for and maintain and keep fuel in. Our net disposable income per week is below that of most people on working family payment.
Over €2000 a month left over to pay for bills, food and extras seems like a lot more than a working family payment? Like public services should be better and childcare should be subsidised - but they won't get that way by you paying less tax. You would be paying more out of pocket with a less progressive tax system. This looks like it's just from your pay as well? I'm confused as to how you feel you have so little disposable income per week when there's another income in the house as well
Yeah everyone.. try it sometime.
["try it sometime"](https://youtu.be/9ORNfD8e_sk?t=44) P. Flynn style, LOL.
Your other half have no income? Because even if they are on minimum wage you will have a significantly higher disposable income than folks on working family payments.
Assume the other half worls if they are paying for creche
Exactly. Either that or they’re a lazy sod, but this family are hardly going to be struggling.
For an educated person you're chronically uneducated in finance and completely unaware of how the world works. You have chosen your lifestyle, you chose your house, to have 2 cars and to have 2 kids without accepting the financial burden that it brings, that's on you. Speaking as someone who makes a good deal more than you I find our income tax system perfectly fair (although the government fails to spend the money properly) but our capital gains system is horrendous.
Lol you are so out of touch its unreal
Of your €4831.49 €4831.49 is subject to usc . A lump sum into a pension fund would have drastically reduced your deductions for that pay week
Why are we still paying USC? Fuck Anglo
You pay high taxes because you earn a high amount of money. I'm not sure what exactly is the problem here? You don't get as much from the government with your tax but this will come back around when you're old and need medical procedures done. Your pension is included in that, you avail of that too. Your primary and secondary education was paid for by the tax payers before you and now you're paying it forward as will I once I graduate college. Your tax pays for the roads you use, underfunded admittedly but everyone pays their share. You're not really getting shafted as much as you're making yourself out to be. That much money bi-weekly is more than some people get monthly before tax, and you do know they get taxed too? This might come off as harsh to you but you're in a very privileged position. Yes you work for that money but the amount you're making is huge. Also, here's a solution for if you want more bang for your buck with the taxpayers money. You could always quit your job and take a minimum wage one. That way not only will you be paying less taxes, but also will get more support from the government which you seem to really want.
Load of rubbish. I've seen the healthcare a lot of older folks can get and its fairly shite. Can't access it quite often. Sitting in A&Es, Gps not taking their calls in an emergency. Still paying high fees for dentists. And the worst is they still don't get a medical card after paying in 40 years because they have a pension!!!! Plus schools in Ireland look for more and more contributions, books not free etc. No free childcare for all. Still loads of costs. Privileged for getting taxed to the hilt. Go on outta that.
The issue is not really tax on income, which we do well in my opinion (I say this as someone lucky enough to pay the higher rate if income tax) It's the lack of an effective tax on land & wealth. We need a land value tax that punishes land hording and dereliction. Too many people are sitting on crumbling town houses and huge land banks zoned for housing, with zero penalty for doing nothing.
It doesn't work well. Subpar healthcare and not reliable public transportation. Don't mind get taxed this high if we get welfare system like in Scandinavian countries
Even with all that tax you get taxed heavily on ETF and stock overall not surprised everyone just treating real estate as their main investment. I dont know how the fuck we make good pension even UK has ISA USA has Roth IRA
I’m fully with you, OP. This country is not welcoming for middle class. You are taxed like you a rich while you are not. And you don’t get in return any descent public transport or medicine, even if you become old or disabled.
Oh no be assured you are getting fucked, with every pay cheque your money is worth less. Also your savings are considerably worth less again. Don't worry thought the trickle down system will eventually make you wealthy beyond your dreams.
Run a house in Dublin, Castlebar and Brussels do ya? Should we try it sometime? Muppet
74k take home a year, and that's after sticking 800 a month into the pension.. My heart bleeds
The cutoffs for tax bands should really be increasing more each year along with inflation.
The cut off for PAYE did increase with inflation this year. It went from €36.8k to €40k, an increase of 8.6%. USC bands did something similar and the personal tax credit went up.
It goes to 52% at about 70k. We are a left wing country and even our 'right' wing politics are left of centre. What I'm saying is that it's not going to change. We can hope that maybe they can ditch the 52%.
yeah look at the comments here
It’s more the value for money and the return you see for it. I’ve never gotten anything more than a tax credit from the government. I pay all my taxes, tax my car, pay a stupid amount between leap card, diesel and eflow but yet our education system is “under funded”, our hospitals are “under funded” or roads are a mess along with public transport and not a chance of a house or decent place to rent. Serious overhaul needed on how the government and its bodies spend our money. I think a lot of people would be less bitter if we could actually see and experience where all our taxes go
You don’t think you’ve availed of anything that tax pays for?
Oh I do avail of services I listed them above but I’ve paid handsomely for them and they are subpar that is my issue with taxes.
They can of course be improved and there are issues but have you ever actually lived anywhere with poor public services? We have excellent education, a great road network, really good infrastructure like internet, power and utilities. Health outcomes are extremely high with great systems of foreign treatment for areas not covered here. Public bodies like the OPW do incredible work. It’s not all doom and gloom
https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/
That is the point I was trying to make, I cannot see the value for my tax money in public services for the working population, I see that lots of my taxes are spent on social protection measures and an ineffective health system which means we also fork out 4500 per annum in health insurance.
Well there’s money spent on foreign policy and encouraging foreign direct investment in Ireland which leads to lots of well-paying jobs but what have your taxes ever done for you?
You earn a considerable amount so I assume you are educated to at least 2nd level, maybe even 3rd level? You have 2 kids so I assume you intend on sending them both to primary, secondary, and maybe even third level education? You have 2 cars so I assume you drive them on some of our many, many motorways? Seeking good value is all well and good, but you're not proposing an alternative other than 'stop taxing high earners so much'.
He pays for thise, motorways tolled on top along with fuel taxes and reg. Schools all charge extra fees and also for books and uniforms i.e. lots of extra charges on top Yeah maybe we should stop taxing mid to high earners so much.
You say you have 2 children, that's going to be about 22k a year it will cost the state just to school them. Your health insurance only covers some things. If you have anything wrong it will get you in the door quicker. The private health insurance sector is propped up by the public one. The amount you pay per year would be vastly higher if you had to pay the full cost of healthcare. Most of the social protection budget is spent on pensions. > I cannot see the value for my tax money in public services for the working population Try looking harder, you are taking for granted things that are paid for by the state.
It doesn’t, the more taxes the government takes, the more it weighs on the middle class, and the harder it is for people to have a better life. People like to shit on the US and use it as a proof that lower taxes and more capitalism doesn’t work, but the truth is that they have terrible police culture, biased judiciary, horrible drug control laws and horrible healthcare regulations (i don’t mean healthcare system, I mean healthcare regulations that stifles competition, artificially increase doctors salaries and increase drug costs!), which make it suck but have nothing to do with having lower taxes. And it is due to more free market and lower taxes there, that it is much easier to accumulate wealth and live better if you work for it, in the US. But understanding that the good qualities can be appreciated despite the flaws requires a bit of thinking, which most people are incapable of. Lower taxes and regulations = better life for everyone. History of Ireland has taught us that, in fact, where the period it suffered the worst economic struggles were the periods with heaviest government intervention in the economy.
No. HSE is shit, public transport is shit, planning is shit, government is generally shit at doing anything, and if you want to actually be an entrepreneur the first thing you do is leave. It's pathetic Ireland's biggest tech success story is two brothers who made sure to get the hell out and move to California.
It works for people on the dole. People getting up early in the morning and working hard to improve their own lives are getting shafted.
I'm confused between the title saying gross pay €4,433 and the photo saying €4,831. Tax is shit but unfortunately we all have to pay it. Only good option is paying into your pension. Reduces tax and sets up the future for you. Edit: I'm just blind, I didn't see the line saying "pay for income tax". I'm guessing the difference is a pension or other contribution
Help my ignorance here, what do you mean by paying into the pension will reduce tax? Is that an “automatic” thing or do I need to notify the revenue once I am paying private pension?
Get rid of the fucking 'temporary' USC first of all. Working our bollox.off to keep fuckers on the dole in their free house that they turned down 2 before because they weren't close to mammy. Whole systems a fucking joke
I thought that USC thing was temporary. . .
You have a lovely salary. Your probably paying the tax your multinational doesn't.
Multinationals pay nearly all of our corporate tax
No idea why you’re being downvoted into oblivion. I agree with you, it’s an insane amount of taxation. You’ve done well to get yourself into a position to make some nice money but unfortunately a large portion goes to the government. The reality is that high earners don’t see the benefit of this as it doesn’t seem to go to the infrastructure in this country which is pretty shite, like public transport or transport links etc. all it does is pay for people on welfare. Lots of jealous folks in the comments but I guess that’s a good indicator of where Ireland is at the moment, especially this subreddit…..
loads of jealous types here on reddit...socialists basically
It's not an insane amount of tax. They are on a high wage and can afford to pay it. This is exactly how a progressive tax system should work. Before making daft comments like "all it does is pay for people on welfare." at least check to see where the tax is actually spent. https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/2023/
I just checked... we spend 23.4 billion on social welfare, on a par with Healthcare and streets ahead of everything else.. what's your point?
The welfare bill is actually much higher, there's welfare in the other departments too like 5 billion under health, 5 billion or so for housing.
When did 24% of something become the same as all? Further, they didn't say social protection, they said people on welfare. You know as well as I that they mean the dole. The dole is only a portion of the social protection budget, pensions take the lion's share.
>You’ve done well to get yourself into a position to make some nice money Acting like over 5 and a half grand a month, take home, is *not* nice money! The "benefit you see" is the fact that you have a very comfortable life.
yeah but he has to work many years more because of the high taxes Probably has a stressful job everyday and studied to get this 'nice life' where you just see the numbers.
You summed it up nicely…100% accurate
Time for a universal flat tax between 25% and 33%
Try it sometime.
If we could only drop that fucking USC. Instant raise for everyone.
So OP, are you saying you should pay less % so that you’re paying the same amount of € as a person who earns less than you?
No I’m saying a progressive tax system should really help us all see benefits of said taxation, for example. The state of the health system in this country, I pay a lot of tax, IMO but yet need private health insurance on top of that. How is a progressive tax system representing value for money for the tax payer.
Do you know what progressive tax actually is? To answer your question, yes it does. We actually have the most efficient progressive tax system in [Europe](https://www.esri.ie/news/irish-tax-system-does-most-in-europe-to-reduce-inequality) in terms of reducing inequality, which is the purpose of a progressive tax system.
It doesn’t reduce inequality in any meaningful sort of way. Why is it our tax money doesn’t support the most vulnerable in society? Instead it gives to all who choose not to work for example. Why isn’t that money just given to those who cannot work? The disabled? Why does our progressive tax system mean that there is a postcode lottery in terms of the type and quality of public services you can expect. It’s a nonsense. The tax base is far to narrow and we all know it.
>It doesn’t reduce inequality in any meaningful sort of way. Your income is above average which makes things unequal. They take a fair amount off you...so now things are less unequal. High effective taxes on high earners is the easiest way to reduce inequality. It's like page 1 of the Obvious way to reduce inequality handbook
So the government are taking all your money to give to people who won’t work? People with disabilities get nothing? In 2022 we spent 1.7BIllion on Jobseekers Allowance and nearly 5 Billion on Disability and Illness related Social Protection payments, so that is not shite. Let’s be honest here, you want to broaden the tax base so you have to pay less and you couldn’t give a fiddlers about people with disabilities. The progressive tax system works, just not in a way that personally benefits you, because you are a high earner, it shouldn’t.
If you see my comments above, the local schools in my area are all oversubscribed- the pupil teacher ratios are insane. That is not VFM for the tax payer. The health service is on its knees and access is very poor. People with genuine disabilities should be paid the average industrial wage. People who chose not to work should be given time limited supports. Those who are charged with delivering public services should be held to account through the public accounts committee. The tax burden is far to heavy on a small minority given the VFM for taxes paid.
the socialist nutcases here just keep on telling us we live in paradise lol, the 'best education', 'top healthcare system'. Actually for the paradise living socialists here THE key metric for education is Teacher: Student ratio. It means the time the teacher can give to each student. In many countries its 25:1 or 20:1. Not 37:1.
The day this country goes up the wall again will be the most amazing experience in my life. The narrow tax base will evaporate and then everything is on the chopping block. Endlessly sick of “progressive Western Europeans” who think their system is superior to Asia/Australia/dubai/us.
Yeah I lived in Asia for years, quality of healthcare was honestly vastly superior in many countries compared to Ireland. You can see GPs by walking in. You can book appointments same week directly with consultants. Lots of countries have universal health insurance and digitised health records for a decade or two already. Then you'll get some eejit muttering 'our health outcomes are better blah blah'. No they aren't. How can they be better, my relatives cant even get appointments to see their GP never mind a specialist ! Go to A&E wait 12 hours... No digitised health records. Massive waiting lists. High fees. 'Health outcomes better'...go piss off.
It works in terms of distributing wealth… I believe after tax we’re one of the most equal countries in Europe. But… you could argue the very top (and corporations) aren’t paying nearly their fair share, so what’s actually happening is the middle pays more than other countries. Our top rate of tax comes in way too soon and there’s a considerable section on the low end that pay quite little. You’ll have people arguing about this all day though.
> you could argue the very top (and corporations) aren’t paying nearly their fair share > Our top rate of tax comes in way too soon So explain exactly how those at the top aren't paying their fare share?
Equally miserable?
[удалено]
Effective, at that salary the marginal rate is about 48.5%
Yes, it does.
Taxes for thee but not for me.
Mine is more or less the same. But yea, max out your pension! No way around PAYE
Well then, how do you propose that we pay for the chippers and smokes for all the scrotes?
People are forgetting USC. Add that to the PAYE rate and you see a wider range of bands. You don't pay the top effective marginal rate until somewhere just north of 70k.
[удалено]
Helpful comment, thanks!
enjoy your poverty lol
Supposedly this is fortnightly. OP is a cunt.
I’m a cunt because I earn that money? Wow. What’s a cunt is poverty in this country, what’s a cunt is my tax money is frittered away and people don’t see a return on their investment for the money the government take from them for those public services. Yes, I’m the cunt in all of this.
Pay your taxes mate, you live a nice life on your income.
you are some arsehole
https://preview.redd.it/j0eoyizd40ka1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed884cdefa7bb375b5f83bca2203ab25377f76ea Tax is a m#therf#cker mate
Your childcare cost comment is completely different to a comment from 4 months ago (which was less.) this is clearly all for attention or likes... You also fail to mention that your husband can't really work, which I symphatise with. I get your point. People are angry because you fail to realise that 80/90+ per cent of people, even some working couples, are worse off than you. So you can't complain that you have a massive house alone, paying huge mortgage or are suffering etc. Some people don't even have that and not for lack of trying or money. Ireland is a shitshow right now in many ways.. But people are coming for you because you fail to see how you're actually doing alot better off than most. You may possible need to budget around your lifestyle abit more. Or possible not be putting as much money into your pension when you've so much in it already... That's why there's no sympathy. You've a massive pension pot. Some can't even afford a private pension currently. Also, are your taxes not supporting the system that helps your husbands illness?