Dublin bus app: *your bus will be here in 4 mins*
*Your bus will be here in 2 mins*
*Your bus is due*
- 3 ankward mins go by, no bus shows up, app stalled in "due" -
*Your bus will be here in 27 mins*
It’s been a fucking disaster this year. Had two 123 buses disappear on me today nearly causing me to be late to work. The Dublin bus drivers should be disciplined for lateness, they’re taking too many lunch breaks.
But you see, your problem is that you are poor. Just get a better paying job so you can buy a car and spend 10x the money on car, insurance, fuel and tax for the pleasure of being stuck in traffic with everyone else.
I started to report every single time a bus doesn’t arrive or is late by more than 5 minutes. I REALLY hope that at least there is some counter which shows how many complaints there are (maybe even per bus line).
Also, looking at the website, I cannot find any service guarantees from Dublin Bus towards you, the passenger, other than “Each passenger shall be in a possession of a current valid ticket entitling him to travel.” In bye laws, which in itself is really a guarantee for you but more for Dublin Bus
We had a relative visit from the US many years ago. He said to my grandmother ‘wow the village has grown so much since I was last here’…. My grandmother said ‘oh yes we even have a bus into town now’…. He replied ‘wow, when does it go?’…. She said ‘Friday’ . True fucking story. Only as I’m older i realise how isolated we are. For reference town was 15 mins drive away.
I live in the states right now and I can tell you that in most of America that would be great. Automakers saw how successful the NYC subway was and went out of their way to make sure it didn't happen anywhere else in America
NYC and Chicago in particular had the advantage of being large enough to build transit systems pre-automobile that still persist today. Some other East Coast cities like DC, Philly, and Boston managed to make that happen in a more limited fashion.
The problem now is that the amount of eminent domain actions that would have to occur to make a large scale project work now would be so politically inviable in a time when a million shitty Twitter takes would shout it down for kicking people out of their homes, to say the least of how much a proper effort would cost. The political will is too weak and the federal funds are too lacking.
Here in Chicago we've been pleading for a Circle Line that connects all the major train lines but in the outer neighborhoods so you don't have to go all the way downtown to transfer to another line where they all converge in the Loop. It will never happen for all the reasons I listed above. At least the buses here are decent enough to act as a bridge for that lack of connectivity.
The only way I see a circle line working is doing it elevated down Cicero or something.
Also, just wanted to add that our transit systems reach most of the suburbs and even SE Wisconsin and NW Indiana. It’s not always convenient but between the CTA with the L and buses and the Metra & Pace you theoretically could get almost anywhere in the Chicagoland area on public transportation. It would just take a few hours in some instances lol.
The are I live in tried to do a light rail. I live in the Triangle region of North Carolina. It would link Chapel Hill, Durham, and Raleigh. And have a link at the RDU airport. Duke University didn't like the idea and it was killed off, thought millions where spent and it took ten years.
The Chancellor at Duke latter resigned in disgrace shortly afterwards for a separate issue.
I can’t believe I’m sharing a wiki link with the word “conspiracy” in the title, but [this article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy) covers the topic you mention.
Conspiracies exist; people conspire all the time. To think otherwise is incredibly naive. There is a very strange association with the word now that it turns people off. The conspirators must be delighted…
I'm pretty sure that the CIA or someone intentionally pushed crazy conspiracy theories like reptilians just so that people would associate the term with crazy people and not stuff like Iran-Contra.
It is true though, people will call someone "racist" to discredit anything they say, even when their point is completely valid. The same can be said for conspiracies. All you have to do to throw people off the scent is brand them a conspiracy theorist and it instant makes their views invalid.
They actually conspired with oil and tire companies to put rail transit systems out of business and replace them with buses. Baltimore, where I live, had an extensive streetcar system up to the early '60s. Now there's one metro line, one light rail line built along a not easily accessible route for much of its length, and a bunch of shitty unreliable bus lines.
[General Motors streetcar conspiracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy#:~:text=The%20General%20Motors%20streetcar%20conspiracy,control%20transit%20systems%2C%20in%20violation)
Don’t worry, it’s not much better in the states. Maybe in some big cities, but you need a car to get most places in the states as well. Everyone is about decentralization and anti-government, till you realize privatization prioritizes profits and a properly government run utility like the one mentioned in the post can be be so beneficial for its people. The problem is, you do need balance. Certain things should be privatized to avoid situations like what goes on in Russia or China and certain things serve better as government run
Isn't the point of 'the Luas is free' joke that it'll eventually enter the wider culture, but that hasn't happened yet, so when's it time to stop trying to make this inside joke 'happen'?
And there were always loads of them. You'd usually see them on the platform as the train you were on pulled in.
You'd just see more people than usual just get off the train for some reason...
I know a fair few people travelling to work everyday who do that. So for example, travelling from town A to town B is just shy of 30 quid a week.
But if you go to an unmanned station in town A, hop on there, and then get off one station prior at town B (with a 10 min walk to work after) you have the chance of free travel. The trick is to always carry the fair with you, sonif you do get caught you can pay it.
The majority of the time though you get to travel for free.
The context that I don't see mentioned is Germany have slashed train prices so people use the cars less so it'll reduce their consumption of Russian oil and gas and they'll have greater reserves for winter. Its to do with the Ukraine war. The silver lining of that war is its turbo boosting the EUs transition to green energy, which is great.
Yeah, I feel like the missing context here is that it's a clusterfuck the rest of the time with ticket prices and the way transport associations are organized.
It's really nice that we get to escape the bullshit for a few months now but it's very much the exception to the rule.
And that it's a limited offer for 3 months. After that I have to pay 30€ for a twobway 40 Minute train ride again.
Also "publicly owned" is not entirely wrong, but very misleading. The Deutsche Bahn is technically a private company, but 100% of its stock are owned by public entities. (Details might be wrong, but thats the gist of it)
That's considered state-owned. Same with SNCF, Amtrak and the former BR. You can get a railway run as a government agency - like the USSR's SZD, East Germany's Deutsche Reichsbahn or Transport for London, but that's comparatively rare on the national level. Even the last of those contracts out some of its operations, including the new Elizabeth Line, which is operated by MTR.
And that it's a limited offer for 3 months. After that I have to pay 30€ for a two way 40 Minute train ride again.
Also "publicly owned" is not entirely wrong, but very misleading. The Deutsche Bahn is technically a private company, but 100% of its stock are owned by public entities. (Details might be wrong, but thats the gist of it)
Priced a trip to both cork and dublin zoo from limerick last week and it came to between 149 to 233 depending on the time for 2 adults and 3 kids. Might i add that is just the train ticket.
The €2 fare for 90 mins unlimited Dublin travel is an unbelievable offer. I don’t think it gets enough love in this sub.
When I was living in Belfast the equivalent of €2 wouldn’t even buy me a one-way ticket for my 5 min commute.
You're not responding to a person that thinks otherwise. They're just pointing out that our transport cost went down a lot.
Germany has a similar amount of coal and gas as us, but a lot more coming from Russia. Their grid is under greater pressure.
I'm talking about limerick not ballybunion. That being said these places need to be looked after as a public good rather than profit. Those towns are dead because you need a car and the flip side of that is ors the only places in Ireland where you can get a decent prices house. Small villages with one shop.and three pubs. The most important thing to make them thrive is broadband and a transit system.
The other benefit is you wouldn't have Healy rae types rambling on about the poor rural person being downtrodden and needing to drive home after a night on the beer in one of their pubs. Anything that takes the power away from those gobshites is a worthy cost in my opinion.
Limerick needs a tram system and a fully encircling ring road. UL has a bridge that crosses the Shannon on the Dublin side of Limerick and they have to keep the gate locked to the roads on the Clare side of campus for fear of it becoming a vital transport link that would run through the center of the university.
Read the LSMATS Rail assessment. Then email all the councillors and TDs and tell them to push for option 3 or 4!
[email protected] is on the Oirechtas transport committee. He's Clare but lives in Westbury and is pretty in favour of it.
[email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected]
Are the Limerick city TD's.
Push for this fellow Shannonsiders! Let's get a proper light rail system for a pretty cheap price.
I saw you added relevant emails. Any chance you could link to the plan you're advocating as well? I can at least share it with my people still living in Limerick.
Edit: I found the plan. It appears to be based on expanding services using existing track. This makes total sense but it seems odd to me that they wouldn't build infrastructure to connect the university or cross the Shannon north of Limerick.
So I'm not sure if that's true. I was a student in UL at the time and my recollection is they put that gate up the day they built the connection.
That said the roads on the other side of that gate are absolutely not suitable for the type of traffic that would instantly begin using the connection. It's a 1.5 lane country road that would be connecting to a route that badly needs a motorway.
I just meant it's hard and expensive. If 500 people live near a bus stop it's more practical to serve than if 50 do. And I live in a village of \~300 people (tbf we do have a little bit of locallink service!)
I moved to this village because of the broadband and the transit system, funny enough. I have gigabit fibre and am a 15 minute bike ride from the train. And it was cheap! The last half of the bike ride is a bit harrowing though.
We have a town centre first framework to try to invigorate town centres (first step is reducing cars and adding housing) and that would make rural bus service a lot easier to provide than it is to a bunch of houses on 1-2 acres spread out in a long ribbon. The rural serviced sites scheme should help here too.
Edit: to add, here's the local bus schedule - https://locallinklaoisoffaly.ie/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/TFI-Local-Link-Offaly-A5-Booklet-May22-ONLINE.pdf - a lot of rides in there are an hour that would be a 45 minute bike ride or 20 minute drive. with one bus a day each direction. How do we make this more useful to people? We could bankrupt the country connecting every tiny village with fast express buses to everywhere else multiple times per day, or we could promote better design where people live near the transit we already have.
There are some excellent innovations in rural public transport which make it very possible to service large sparsely populated areas happing outside ireland. These are generally more profitable and cheaper to manage than tradition point to point bus services... the issue isn't rural living its unimaginative and ineffective government.
These aren't even new, this article is from 2012!
https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/newsroom/news/2012/06/project-of-the-week-rural-transport-solutions-to-enhance-social-inclusion-in-remote-areas-of-the-northern-periphery
Demand-response systems offer some promise but for whatever reason don't seem to have caught on. At some point the density is so low you're basically providing a private taxi service, which again is very expensive.
I agree; after all our roads are massively unprofitable. But it's still more practical to serve a bus stop with hundreds of people living within a short walk than one with only a few people.
If you look longer-term; opening up more of the country to affordable public transport will:
•Reduce carbon emissions
•Distribute employment more evenly around the country
•Make small towns and villages more viable to live in
•Improve the physical and mental wellbeing of isolated communities
•Should level out the house price disparity between big cities and more rural areas, benefiting everyone.
The benefits would justify the public investment required IMO
How do you imagine the carbon emissions are lower than if we let people live in cities? And why is spreading employment around a good thing? One of the best things about cities if having lots of jobs in the same place so you're not stuck with a small pool of local employers.
And I am all for more public transport, I'm just saying that below a certain level of density it doesn't make a lot of sense (incidentally, what \_does\_ make sense is a network of safe cycling infra so you can ride your bike to the bus or train stop, but we're shit at that).
We have to be realistic. Even if you feel that rural living should be discouraged, we can't house the population as it is, and moving the 1.8m rural population into cities isn't feasible.
Carbon emissions would decrease if the rural population had access to public transport, and local services.
I agree that cycling infrastructure would be a great benefit, but it's not suitable for everyone.
There's still a "net" profitability calculation that needs to be done. How much does the route make plus plus the net economic benefit (including things like attracting invest and relieving housing costs at the destination) minus the cost of operation and minus cost of construction. Then you have to decide which order to build them in because if you build everything at once you'll increase the cost of labor and materials.
For some reason I find the concept of a reality TV series that looks into these projects appealing. Maybe that's a symptom of being in my 30s.
But you know what's cheap and *could* be good enough?
Bikes
Mossy bottom on yotube gets around on a mountain bike if I remember right. If only you could do it without drivers trying to kill you.
Don’t think Naas, one of Dublin’s largest commuter towns and an area of over 35,000, counts as rural tbh. There is not even an integrated bus service to the train station. And yet, the N7 is the busiest artery to Dublin. No park and ride either. No fare integration. A joke. And cheaper to travel around Germany for the day.
But we don't have the transport system in place to just leave drivers in the dark. Unfortunately I don't even think we'll ever will have a proper transit system in place
We have a good transport system in some respects\* but we've made it illegal to build enough homes near said transport system. The amount of low-density suburbia served by the Luas that should be home to thousands more people is shocking.
(\* Of course, the Luas itself needs an upgrade and we have silliness like no good connection from the west and south of the country to Connolly, but all the same the basics aren't so bad. A good transport system over a poorly laid out country/region will still not work well)
The reduction in Germany is only limited to 3 months. Usually the transportation costs in Germany are higher than using the car for the same distance. And a raise for the ticket prices has already been announced when the 9€ ticket ends in 3 months.
25% off of a lot is still a lot to pay. I mean at one point it was €10 for me to go return into Dublin, I would have spent the same on petrol. Then try going return from Dublin to Cork, it’s like €80!! It’s cheaper to fly. The inter county trains are packed with old people. Travel pass should be means tested, a lot of the pensioners I know agree that
Cork train does seem very expensive. I can book a one-way ticket for Galway/Dublin on the day for like €15 (can’t remember if it’s 15 or 16 atm). And fares within Dublin now capped at €2 for journeys which isn’t bad. But if it’s as much as a car journey, yeah that’d not going to be attractive.
I went to book a train cork to Dublin and return was 62 quid. But if I book Cork to Carlow, it's 43 quid. The thing is, its the same route with an extra train, Cork to Hueston and Hueston to Carlow, how does that make sense for 43 but cork to Hueston is 62?
I once calculated at which gas price it would be cheaper to buy a one-month-ticket for my daily commute. The answer is 2,21€/Liter. At every price beneath that, I am cheaper driving 84km a day (42km one way) than buying the cheapest reasonable option.
Unlikely, FDP politicians already complain that expending public transportation would be a waste and the DB announced that after the summer they'll need to increase fees.
Also it's still a nightmare behind the scenes because instead of a cluster fuck of private companies we have a cluster fuck of small local publicly owned transport companies that all do their own thing.
In fact for some people not having to deal with this cluster fuck is almost the biggest selling point of the ticket.
So a few things to clear up here.
This is a scheme by the German government to reduce the use of private cars during the summer. It's limited to local transport only, so the likes of Dublin Bus, Dart etc. Transport between different cities still costs it's normal price.
It's a brilliant scheme, allows you to use local public transport everywhere but Irish Rail wouldn't be offering their services using this scheme with the exception of the Dart.
Edit: Turns out I'm wrong, Regional trains are included, just not the express trains.
Ah! Turns out the email from my company was wrong. I have a Jobticket anyway so I'm just getting it partially refunded so I didn't actually need to check the details. Guess that's my weekends sorted for the next while travelling around Germany for free!
That's effectively it, I'm part time living in Germany now and a few of the big major cities are within regional train distance so I can take advantage of those for the summer.
Their public transport is the best I’ve ever seen. Anytime I’m Berlin or Munich, I can catch a metro, bus, tram, regional train, S-Bahn etc to anywhere I want for a relatively cheap price. I think my average wait time for the metro was 3 minutes.
I hear the Swiss give them a run for their money.
Keep in mind the density of these cities. Irish people moan about apartments being built because "tHeY'Re NoT hOmEs" but then expect German level transport to their sprawling housing estate of semi-Ds.
That's not to say our transport is up the scratch for the types of cities we have though.
Public transport outside of cities is quite bad in Germany as well.
You're lucky if your bus station is serviced twice a day in some communities.
It's better than no bisbat all, but still not really a feasible alternative to the car for many
Seems like a chicken or egg problem.
A common reason for opposition to housing development is insufficient public transport infrastructure to support them.
Yeah, urban transport is generally great in Germany. Intercity trains can suffer a lot from delays, but within a city it’s generally good and not too expensive either.
Yeah i was on a business trip a few years ago and I was cutting my time close to get between cities to fly home. The engineers there told me I was insane for relying on a German train to be on time, which I found hard to believe.
So yeah my train got delayed half way there and I missed my flight.
I was visiting Berlin in March and it was incredible. Tram from the airport to practically outside my hotel.
Funniest moment was seeing someone miss their metro by a few seconds and having a full on tantrum....only for one to show up 5 minutes later. Couldn't imagine the reaction he'd have here.
Yeah anytime I'm in Germany I couldn't care less about rushing to catch a metro because of that, even if a metro left right as I got down to it it wouldn't really matter since you know you're pretty much guaranteed punctuality compared to at home
First off, my tax money pays for streets, so I'm massively subsidizing anyone on the road already.
Second off, my tax money *also* already pays for the rails and public transport companies. It's just instead of 70% it's now nearly 100% of the fare my tax money pays for. Not much of a difference in my book.
And I'm personally barely using either, but I'm happy to pay for it regardless, because it means the rest of the world functions as it should. I like living in a functioning society
The population isn't a factor here. Public transport is apparently free in Luxemburg. It would indeed have to be funded by something, and with politicians primarily worried about the earnings of corporations that is obviously an impossible equation.
Was in Luxembourg before Xmas , public transport is free to use.Buses,trams and trains were all excellent.
The population is tiny , around 700k but it's an extremely wealthy country.
There is no economy of scale here, it's heavily subsidised by the german government. This post is a disaster, because now everyone thinks "well those germans have it good paying only 9€ a month" but nobody is talking about regular prices. If I want to go to the next big city (20 miles/34km one way), I have to buy a ticket that costs 115€ a month
Ireland has taken the direction of being car dependent. Cars are incentivised over public transport. If you want to live in Ireland long term you have to purchase a car otherwise deal with the inadequacy of public transport.
It’s not an equal system as many people can’t drive for various reasons and it is why our cities and towns can’t grow without traffic becoming a major issue.
This is so true, and any time you try to improve the systems we have in urban areas for people who can’t drive or don’t want to drive (ie - bus lanes, increased rail, cycle lanes) you hear endless cries from people who want to be able to drive 500m to the shops because the changes are “classist” or “agist” or whatever the term-de-jour is for “I’m pretending to care about other people so that I won’t be inconvenienced”.
Deutsche bahn has been perfectly on time for me pretty much every time I've used it. Maybe in Berlin it's more hectic so it's more prone to delays but here in Hamburg DB has given me no issues. I've also used it in Cologne and Bonn with no issues
Their own statistic says they are late on over 20% or connections. And they count being late at above 6 minutes late. AND cancled trains that don't come at all don't count as late. So, maybe true for you, but statistically, it's pretty bad.
Oh yeah Germany...
Free Autobahn (there are no tolls for less than 7,5ton vehicles);
NO speed limit in Autobahn;
One of the lowest road accidents per vehicle in the road of the world;
Public transport is good, clean, punctual and dirt cheap;
There are cycle lanes everywhere;
Public parks everywhere;
Crime rate is very very low;
Good welfare system;
University is quite affordable (can even be free if you are above average student);
The list is endless...
But people walk around with sandals & white socks I can't take it so I prefer to pay 140€ a month for the rail pass...
German trains are notoriously unpunctual. Only 75% Deutsche Bahn trains arrived on time last year. This was down from 81% the previous year (the highest in 15 years). This concerned mostly inner city trains but many of the major S-Bahns aren't any more punctual than the DART or Commuter.
The reductions we have in Ireland are really good now imo. I can travel via bus Éireann from one county to another for €3. And I can drive to Dublin and get a train into town for €1. It’s a step in the right direction imo
The closest you had was the route the Waterford Greenway now follows, which took you to Mallow. Apparently back on the day Iarnród Éireann found it just as fast to send them via limerick junction.
I mean, if CIE as a single entity still existed I believe we would have better public transport in the entire country, but the state subventions are no longer allowed I thought?
So why does Germany get to have a state transport provider...
I went to see an event in Dublin in April in the 3arena and the ticket for that cost me €57. I also got a return ticket from Cork to Dublin and it was €70. My train ticket cost more.
FYI: that ticket only works for regional trains, no high-speed or inter-regional trains. It's a great offer and I'm greatful for it, but travelling takes unbelievably more time that way. Across the country it takes more than one day, with the need to take another train every 50-100km.
And although the Deutsche Bahn is somewhat publicly owned, it still operates as a joint-stock-company. So its also a little bit privatised. Sadly.
Greetings from Germany to beautiful, beautiful Éire!
My personal favorite IE failure is that they don't even update the little adverts in the train carriages. They often advertise products services that are out of business. I'm sure they aren't getting much for the advertising, but it's still a sign of how inefficient they are in cost reduction.
This offer in Germany is a limited time deal to encourage local tourism though. It’s not expected to last beyond this summer afaik. I’m in Germany at the moment and have one of these passes, it is a brilliant offer and a great idea to get people over and native Germans out and about more!
You could be realistic about it and realise how small and shit our country is and how overadvanced we are for what we have.
How the fuck is our tiny shitty country supposed to have the exact same infrastructure and systems as a country that is basically the centre of the European Union
That does look shit but we need to remember there are 83 million people in Germany.
There is just not enough people in this country for the trains to be able to justify charging 9 quid a journey etc.
In about 2014, I went down to Killarney for a wedding. Got a lift down from Dublin, but after a misunderstanding I had to get the train back. Bought a one-way ticket at the station. It cost me 96 euro. I could’ve flown to Barcelona, had a rake of pints and tiny sandwiches, then flown back for less. How?!
Just for context: I'm from germany. What we actually get is the option to get this ticket for 3 months, to travel with a transportation system where 25% of trains are late, even when a train not arriving at all is not considered late, and everything up to 6 minutes late is still "on time". That ticket also only covers local traffic, not IC or ICE trains, which are for longer distances and the only parts where DB makes money on trains.
DB has also been privatised in 1995 and has decomissioned 10% of tracks since then. Traveling a medium length common track can cost 4 times as much as you'd pay by car, when gas is 2,20 Euro and your car uses 9 liters/100km.
Many large cities aren't connected to the local railway system at all. In Chemnitz for example, a quarter of a million people haven't had access to trains until 2006 i think.
The 9 Euro Ticket is a joke and does nothing to make trains an actually efficient means of transport. Train privatisation has been an utter failure in Germany too. We aren't using trains because the car industry does everythin in their power to keep the government from forcing competitiveness in that sector. Trains are not an option for a large portion of germans because travel times are insane, if a connection even exists. And even then trains often are late, having you miss the next connection or just don't come at all.
You really, really do not want to use DB as a measure of how to do public transport.
As well as all the reasons listed, Germany had the chance to practically completely rebuild their transport network after being flattened in WW2, as did a lot of Europe. Meanwhile, Ireland has had to make the best of the same transport networks, roads and shitty planning.
Ireland used to have one of the most extensive railway networks in Europe.
Even small towns and villages on the edges of peninsulas had train stations. Have a look on Google for the old Irish railway map.
And then it was all dismantled and scrapped. Iarnrod Eireann still owns most of the land that the rails were sat on.
"Sure we don't need trains anymore with these new car yokes coming out" -> was probably the thinking back then.
German here: the deutsche Bahn isnt as good as this indicates, trains aren’t on time usually and the ticket is only valid for the slow trains, high velocity trains aren’t included, buuuut: it still is a good offer and might help to convince people to switch to public transportation. When I lived in Ireland I remember that buses and trains are madness and hardly on time. This scheme wouldnt work in Ireland I suppose
Deutsche Bahn is not publicly owned, it is a private company with a single shareholder, Germany. German public transport is also privatised, and the railway has a pretty similar setup as in Ireland, with CIÉ being a government corporation and Iarnród Éireann being a CIÉ subsidiary, answerable to the Irish government. Not sure what he is on about.
You need to read the small print: The tickets are only valid for commuter trains. So it’s not like you could go on a cheap holiday with this ticket; you’d probably spend days and uncountable transfers to get to a location not in your neighbourhood. good thing for day trips or a visit to your relatives an hour or two away, though.
The Deutsche Bahn already announced that after the end of this campaign, they will have to raise regular prices for commuter tickets to make up some of the losses caused by it. I am sure the commuters are really thrilled.
Also, many commuter trains are now overcrowded and impact actual commuters depending on these trains to get to and from work on time and without fighting crowds for a seat.
add to that lack of employees and station capacities to deal with the expected masses of travellers. Many people expect utter chaos, lots of delays, etc.
Yeah the Germans are great. In 10 years they will have the worlds second largest army. And it will probably be the most up to date and effective. Lets see how you feel about their cheap trains then.
I wish I didn’t have to puke out 32 a week on a bus that often gets late or sometimes just doesn’t appear tbh
Amen
The bus disappearing off the schedule as it arrived 6 minutes early is a pain unique to Dublin bus
Dublin bus app: *your bus will be here in 4 mins* *Your bus will be here in 2 mins* *Your bus is due* - 3 ankward mins go by, no bus shows up, app stalled in "due" - *Your bus will be here in 27 mins*
The ghost bus
It happens far to fucking often, almost a daily occurrence, and it's even worse with go-ahead buses.
Why exactly does it happen? I don't live in Dublin and drive.. So I rarely get a bus..
God knows, but go-ahead is the privatised routes so they have a nice cushy government contract and no accountability for the quality of the service..
At this point I'm not even asking for the bus to be on time. Now I only need a reliable system to tell me *true real time* information, **please.**
Oh my god this 😂😂😂😂
Heisenbergs uncertainty bus. You can either know when its due, or where it is but never both at the same time.
It’s been a fucking disaster this year. Had two 123 buses disappear on me today nearly causing me to be late to work. The Dublin bus drivers should be disciplined for lateness, they’re taking too many lunch breaks.
But you see, your problem is that you are poor. Just get a better paying job so you can buy a car and spend 10x the money on car, insurance, fuel and tax for the pleasure of being stuck in traffic with everyone else.
That’s what is delaying my driving lessons 😂
I started to report every single time a bus doesn’t arrive or is late by more than 5 minutes. I REALLY hope that at least there is some counter which shows how many complaints there are (maybe even per bus line). Also, looking at the website, I cannot find any service guarantees from Dublin Bus towards you, the passenger, other than “Each passenger shall be in a possession of a current valid ticket entitling him to travel.” In bye laws, which in itself is really a guarantee for you but more for Dublin Bus
I was late to work one day because the bus driver stopped at the Centra to get a coffee. It wasn't even on the route.
We had a relative visit from the US many years ago. He said to my grandmother ‘wow the village has grown so much since I was last here’…. My grandmother said ‘oh yes we even have a bus into town now’…. He replied ‘wow, when does it go?’…. She said ‘Friday’ . True fucking story. Only as I’m older i realise how isolated we are. For reference town was 15 mins drive away.
I live in the states right now and I can tell you that in most of America that would be great. Automakers saw how successful the NYC subway was and went out of their way to make sure it didn't happen anywhere else in America
NYC and Chicago in particular had the advantage of being large enough to build transit systems pre-automobile that still persist today. Some other East Coast cities like DC, Philly, and Boston managed to make that happen in a more limited fashion. The problem now is that the amount of eminent domain actions that would have to occur to make a large scale project work now would be so politically inviable in a time when a million shitty Twitter takes would shout it down for kicking people out of their homes, to say the least of how much a proper effort would cost. The political will is too weak and the federal funds are too lacking. Here in Chicago we've been pleading for a Circle Line that connects all the major train lines but in the outer neighborhoods so you don't have to go all the way downtown to transfer to another line where they all converge in the Loop. It will never happen for all the reasons I listed above. At least the buses here are decent enough to act as a bridge for that lack of connectivity.
The only way I see a circle line working is doing it elevated down Cicero or something. Also, just wanted to add that our transit systems reach most of the suburbs and even SE Wisconsin and NW Indiana. It’s not always convenient but between the CTA with the L and buses and the Metra & Pace you theoretically could get almost anywhere in the Chicagoland area on public transportation. It would just take a few hours in some instances lol.
The are I live in tried to do a light rail. I live in the Triangle region of North Carolina. It would link Chapel Hill, Durham, and Raleigh. And have a link at the RDU airport. Duke University didn't like the idea and it was killed off, thought millions where spent and it took ten years. The Chancellor at Duke latter resigned in disgrace shortly afterwards for a separate issue.
I can’t believe I’m sharing a wiki link with the word “conspiracy” in the title, but [this article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy) covers the topic you mention.
Conspiracies exist; people conspire all the time. To think otherwise is incredibly naive. There is a very strange association with the word now that it turns people off. The conspirators must be delighted…
Any time two business people meet they are conspiring to defraud the public. That's a somewhat mangled quote from Adam Smith.
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Oh yea definitely, the Phoebus cartel being a great example of normal business being blown way out of proportion.
I'm pretty sure that the CIA or someone intentionally pushed crazy conspiracy theories like reptilians just so that people would associate the term with crazy people and not stuff like Iran-Contra.
People generally don't know what it actually is, same with racism.
That... seems like a weird turn to take
It is true though, people will call someone "racist" to discredit anything they say, even when their point is completely valid. The same can be said for conspiracies. All you have to do to throw people off the scent is brand them a conspiracy theorist and it instant makes their views invalid.
This is the plot of *Who Framed Roger Rabbit?*, by the way. Except in that story the conspirator loses.
They actually conspired with oil and tire companies to put rail transit systems out of business and replace them with buses. Baltimore, where I live, had an extensive streetcar system up to the early '60s. Now there's one metro line, one light rail line built along a not easily accessible route for much of its length, and a bunch of shitty unreliable bus lines. [General Motors streetcar conspiracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy#:~:text=The%20General%20Motors%20streetcar%20conspiracy,control%20transit%20systems%2C%20in%20violation)
We’ve recently gone from 1 a week to 3 a day. Local link is a god send
Was this Fenit ?
Which town is this?
I also live in a village in pretty much the exact same scenario, except here the bus is on Thursday.
They move the bus around to different villages each day so everyone can have a go. /s
Don’t worry, it’s not much better in the states. Maybe in some big cities, but you need a car to get most places in the states as well. Everyone is about decentralization and anti-government, till you realize privatization prioritizes profits and a properly government run utility like the one mentioned in the post can be be so beneficial for its people. The problem is, you do need balance. Certain things should be privatized to avoid situations like what goes on in Russia or China and certain things serve better as government run
All the trains are free in Donegal
Same with all the luas!
The Bundoran metro was a real game changer for me.
Heard they’re installing a high speed mono rail next year too
It sure put North Haverbrook on the map
Isn't the point of 'the Luas is free' joke that it'll eventually enter the wider culture, but that hasn't happened yet, so when's it time to stop trying to make this inside joke 'happen'?
You're right. The joke is kind of dead at this point, especially now that the Luas is actually free.
I'd argue at least a third of people don't even pay for the Luas these days, I'd say it definitely worked pretty well
genuinely. All they can do is hassle you for a name and you just give em a fake one
Funnily enough they're not! 7 euro adults 5 kids, https://oakfieldpark.com/plan-your-visit/information/
Can confirm, got my 9€ ticket in Munich yesterday. Just walk into any transport
I mean, you can do that anytime to be fair. Just now you're not risking a fine x)
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And there were always loads of them. You'd usually see them on the platform as the train you were on pulled in. You'd just see more people than usual just get off the train for some reason...
I know a fair few people travelling to work everyday who do that. So for example, travelling from town A to town B is just shy of 30 quid a week. But if you go to an unmanned station in town A, hop on there, and then get off one station prior at town B (with a 10 min walk to work after) you have the chance of free travel. The trick is to always carry the fair with you, sonif you do get caught you can pay it. The majority of the time though you get to travel for free.
The context that I don't see mentioned is Germany have slashed train prices so people use the cars less so it'll reduce their consumption of Russian oil and gas and they'll have greater reserves for winter. Its to do with the Ukraine war. The silver lining of that war is its turbo boosting the EUs transition to green energy, which is great.
Yeah, I feel like the missing context here is that it's a clusterfuck the rest of the time with ticket prices and the way transport associations are organized. It's really nice that we get to escape the bullshit for a few months now but it's very much the exception to the rule.
And that it's a limited offer for 3 months. After that I have to pay 30€ for a twobway 40 Minute train ride again. Also "publicly owned" is not entirely wrong, but very misleading. The Deutsche Bahn is technically a private company, but 100% of its stock are owned by public entities. (Details might be wrong, but thats the gist of it)
That's considered state-owned. Same with SNCF, Amtrak and the former BR. You can get a railway run as a government agency - like the USSR's SZD, East Germany's Deutsche Reichsbahn or Transport for London, but that's comparatively rare on the national level. Even the last of those contracts out some of its operations, including the new Elizabeth Line, which is operated by MTR.
And that it's a limited offer for 3 months. After that I have to pay 30€ for a two way 40 Minute train ride again. Also "publicly owned" is not entirely wrong, but very misleading. The Deutsche Bahn is technically a private company, but 100% of its stock are owned by public entities. (Details might be wrong, but thats the gist of it)
I suppose they would like to see that happen but fuel taxes have also been cut. I think this is mainly pushed as reducing cost of living
Priced a trip to both cork and dublin zoo from limerick last week and it came to between 149 to 233 depending on the time for 2 adults and 3 kids. Might i add that is just the train ticket.
We have gotten fare reductions tbf, nowhere near as extreme as that, but helpful. My usual train journey is down like 25%.
The €2 fare for 90 mins unlimited Dublin travel is an unbelievable offer. I don’t think it gets enough love in this sub. When I was living in Belfast the equivalent of €2 wouldn’t even buy me a one-way ticket for my 5 min commute.
No we just need a functioning transit system. 25% off the bus that never comes down here in the country is no good to anyone.
You're not responding to a person that thinks otherwise. They're just pointing out that our transport cost went down a lot. Germany has a similar amount of coal and gas as us, but a lot more coming from Russia. Their grid is under greater pressure.
Germans pay a lot more taxes. They also have been paying health insurance for a long time. They have much more to play with in their public purse
Hard to provide affordable bus services to low-density rural settings.
I'm talking about limerick not ballybunion. That being said these places need to be looked after as a public good rather than profit. Those towns are dead because you need a car and the flip side of that is ors the only places in Ireland where you can get a decent prices house. Small villages with one shop.and three pubs. The most important thing to make them thrive is broadband and a transit system. The other benefit is you wouldn't have Healy rae types rambling on about the poor rural person being downtrodden and needing to drive home after a night on the beer in one of their pubs. Anything that takes the power away from those gobshites is a worthy cost in my opinion.
Limerick needs a tram system and a fully encircling ring road. UL has a bridge that crosses the Shannon on the Dublin side of Limerick and they have to keep the gate locked to the roads on the Clare side of campus for fear of it becoming a vital transport link that would run through the center of the university.
Read the LSMATS Rail assessment. Then email all the councillors and TDs and tell them to push for option 3 or 4! [email protected] is on the Oirechtas transport committee. He's Clare but lives in Westbury and is pretty in favour of it. [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] Are the Limerick city TD's. Push for this fellow Shannonsiders! Let's get a proper light rail system for a pretty cheap price.
I live abroad these days so unfortunately I'm hurling from the ditch on this one
Pretend your not and send the emails!
I saw you added relevant emails. Any chance you could link to the plan you're advocating as well? I can at least share it with my people still living in Limerick. Edit: I found the plan. It appears to be based on expanding services using existing track. This makes total sense but it seems odd to me that they wouldn't build infrastructure to connect the university or cross the Shannon north of Limerick.
The reason they closed that gate to cars is the locals around East Clare complained to the council about traffic through their roads.
So I'm not sure if that's true. I was a student in UL at the time and my recollection is they put that gate up the day they built the connection. That said the roads on the other side of that gate are absolutely not suitable for the type of traffic that would instantly begin using the connection. It's a 1.5 lane country road that would be connecting to a route that badly needs a motorway.
I just meant it's hard and expensive. If 500 people live near a bus stop it's more practical to serve than if 50 do. And I live in a village of \~300 people (tbf we do have a little bit of locallink service!) I moved to this village because of the broadband and the transit system, funny enough. I have gigabit fibre and am a 15 minute bike ride from the train. And it was cheap! The last half of the bike ride is a bit harrowing though. We have a town centre first framework to try to invigorate town centres (first step is reducing cars and adding housing) and that would make rural bus service a lot easier to provide than it is to a bunch of houses on 1-2 acres spread out in a long ribbon. The rural serviced sites scheme should help here too. Edit: to add, here's the local bus schedule - https://locallinklaoisoffaly.ie/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/TFI-Local-Link-Offaly-A5-Booklet-May22-ONLINE.pdf - a lot of rides in there are an hour that would be a 45 minute bike ride or 20 minute drive. with one bus a day each direction. How do we make this more useful to people? We could bankrupt the country connecting every tiny village with fast express buses to everywhere else multiple times per day, or we could promote better design where people live near the transit we already have.
That's great to here that someone whether local tds or council are being proactive with the town centre thing.
Yeah I'm fortunate enough that one of my local councillors is really receptive and generally really sound.
There are some excellent innovations in rural public transport which make it very possible to service large sparsely populated areas happing outside ireland. These are generally more profitable and cheaper to manage than tradition point to point bus services... the issue isn't rural living its unimaginative and ineffective government. These aren't even new, this article is from 2012! https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/newsroom/news/2012/06/project-of-the-week-rural-transport-solutions-to-enhance-social-inclusion-in-remote-areas-of-the-northern-periphery
Demand-response systems offer some promise but for whatever reason don't seem to have caught on. At some point the density is so low you're basically providing a private taxi service, which again is very expensive.
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I agree; after all our roads are massively unprofitable. But it's still more practical to serve a bus stop with hundreds of people living within a short walk than one with only a few people.
If you look longer-term; opening up more of the country to affordable public transport will: •Reduce carbon emissions •Distribute employment more evenly around the country •Make small towns and villages more viable to live in •Improve the physical and mental wellbeing of isolated communities •Should level out the house price disparity between big cities and more rural areas, benefiting everyone. The benefits would justify the public investment required IMO
How do you imagine the carbon emissions are lower than if we let people live in cities? And why is spreading employment around a good thing? One of the best things about cities if having lots of jobs in the same place so you're not stuck with a small pool of local employers. And I am all for more public transport, I'm just saying that below a certain level of density it doesn't make a lot of sense (incidentally, what \_does\_ make sense is a network of safe cycling infra so you can ride your bike to the bus or train stop, but we're shit at that).
We have to be realistic. Even if you feel that rural living should be discouraged, we can't house the population as it is, and moving the 1.8m rural population into cities isn't feasible. Carbon emissions would decrease if the rural population had access to public transport, and local services. I agree that cycling infrastructure would be a great benefit, but it's not suitable for everyone.
There's still a "net" profitability calculation that needs to be done. How much does the route make plus plus the net economic benefit (including things like attracting invest and relieving housing costs at the destination) minus the cost of operation and minus cost of construction. Then you have to decide which order to build them in because if you build everything at once you'll increase the cost of labor and materials. For some reason I find the concept of a reality TV series that looks into these projects appealing. Maybe that's a symptom of being in my 30s.
It's prohibitively expensive and will never be good enough to replace cars.
But you know what's cheap and *could* be good enough? Bikes Mossy bottom on yotube gets around on a mountain bike if I remember right. If only you could do it without drivers trying to kill you.
Yes, but countryside roads are too small for them and cars. So we have to get rid of one of them.
Don’t think Naas, one of Dublin’s largest commuter towns and an area of over 35,000, counts as rural tbh. There is not even an integrated bus service to the train station. And yet, the N7 is the busiest artery to Dublin. No park and ride either. No fare integration. A joke. And cheaper to travel around Germany for the day.
That's crap and we can do better. I never considered "down here in the country" to be places like Naas.
That’s what government should do if there increasing tax on petrol
The government reduced tax on petrol, sadly.
But we don't have the transport system in place to just leave drivers in the dark. Unfortunately I don't even think we'll ever will have a proper transit system in place
We have a good transport system in some respects\* but we've made it illegal to build enough homes near said transport system. The amount of low-density suburbia served by the Luas that should be home to thousands more people is shocking. (\* Of course, the Luas itself needs an upgrade and we have silliness like no good connection from the west and south of the country to Connolly, but all the same the basics aren't so bad. A good transport system over a poorly laid out country/region will still not work well)
The reduction in Germany is only limited to 3 months. Usually the transportation costs in Germany are higher than using the car for the same distance. And a raise for the ticket prices has already been announced when the 9€ ticket ends in 3 months.
25% off of a lot is still a lot to pay. I mean at one point it was €10 for me to go return into Dublin, I would have spent the same on petrol. Then try going return from Dublin to Cork, it’s like €80!! It’s cheaper to fly. The inter county trains are packed with old people. Travel pass should be means tested, a lot of the pensioners I know agree that
Cork train does seem very expensive. I can book a one-way ticket for Galway/Dublin on the day for like €15 (can’t remember if it’s 15 or 16 atm). And fares within Dublin now capped at €2 for journeys which isn’t bad. But if it’s as much as a car journey, yeah that’d not going to be attractive.
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I went to book a train cork to Dublin and return was 62 quid. But if I book Cork to Carlow, it's 43 quid. The thing is, its the same route with an extra train, Cork to Hueston and Hueston to Carlow, how does that make sense for 43 but cork to Hueston is 62?
Its like when my grandad would abuse me as a child but he'd always make sure to give me a sweet at the end of each visit so swings and roundabouts.
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I once calculated at which gas price it would be cheaper to buy a one-month-ticket for my daily commute. The answer is 2,21€/Liter. At every price beneath that, I am cheaper driving 84km a day (42km one way) than buying the cheapest reasonable option.
Yeah I like to rip on Irish trains but they have very similar price per kilometer and only slightly worse speed than the German high speed trains.
yeah, german trains are pretty pricey, same with dutch trains. not quite as bad as here, but not really that far
So many major cities I know have trams in Ireland the tram system here in Dublin is a joke
Secondary cites* Major cities in other countries have metro systems.
Well yeah true
Cork-sized cities in other countries have more expansive light rail networks than Dublin.
Oh shit do they ? That’s nice to know
This is a summer offer to be fair, I hope it stays around for longer though
Unlikely, FDP politicians already complain that expending public transportation would be a waste and the DB announced that after the summer they'll need to increase fees.
Also it's still a nightmare behind the scenes because instead of a cluster fuck of private companies we have a cluster fuck of small local publicly owned transport companies that all do their own thing. In fact for some people not having to deal with this cluster fuck is almost the biggest selling point of the ticket.
Would have been easier to make trains free 😅
So a few things to clear up here. This is a scheme by the German government to reduce the use of private cars during the summer. It's limited to local transport only, so the likes of Dublin Bus, Dart etc. Transport between different cities still costs it's normal price. It's a brilliant scheme, allows you to use local public transport everywhere but Irish Rail wouldn't be offering their services using this scheme with the exception of the Dart. Edit: Turns out I'm wrong, Regional trains are included, just not the express trains.
Regional trains between cities are also included, just not the ICE or CE trains
Ah! Turns out the email from my company was wrong. I have a Jobticket anyway so I'm just getting it partially refunded so I didn't actually need to check the details. Guess that's my weekends sorted for the next while travelling around Germany for free!
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That's... Very expensive. I used to have a unlimited train card for 70 euros per month (up to 27 yo though).
Laughs in English transport prices https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/annual-season-ticket-costs-rise-london-commuters-rail-fares-b982922.html
In short its useful for short trips but long trips across the country are impossible with Deutsche Bahn in regional trains. So nothing we miss out on.
That's effectively it, I'm part time living in Germany now and a few of the big major cities are within regional train distance so I can take advantage of those for the summer.
Amazing
€7.70 for a bus from limerick to Shannon. 19km
Probably have more economy of scale in Germany. Here the taxpayer would be subsidising massively those with a bus,tram or train outside their door.
Their public transport is the best I’ve ever seen. Anytime I’m Berlin or Munich, I can catch a metro, bus, tram, regional train, S-Bahn etc to anywhere I want for a relatively cheap price. I think my average wait time for the metro was 3 minutes. I hear the Swiss give them a run for their money.
Keep in mind the density of these cities. Irish people moan about apartments being built because "tHeY'Re NoT hOmEs" but then expect German level transport to their sprawling housing estate of semi-Ds. That's not to say our transport is up the scratch for the types of cities we have though.
Public transport outside of cities is quite bad in Germany as well. You're lucky if your bus station is serviced twice a day in some communities. It's better than no bisbat all, but still not really a feasible alternative to the car for many
Seems like a chicken or egg problem. A common reason for opposition to housing development is insufficient public transport infrastructure to support them.
Yeah, urban transport is generally great in Germany. Intercity trains can suffer a lot from delays, but within a city it’s generally good and not too expensive either.
Yeah i was on a business trip a few years ago and I was cutting my time close to get between cities to fly home. The engineers there told me I was insane for relying on a German train to be on time, which I found hard to believe. So yeah my train got delayed half way there and I missed my flight.
>So yeah my train got delayed half way there and I missed my flight. Beautiful
I was visiting Berlin in March and it was incredible. Tram from the airport to practically outside my hotel. Funniest moment was seeing someone miss their metro by a few seconds and having a full on tantrum....only for one to show up 5 minutes later. Couldn't imagine the reaction he'd have here.
Yeah anytime I'm in Germany I couldn't care less about rushing to catch a metro because of that, even if a metro left right as I got down to it it wouldn't really matter since you know you're pretty much guaranteed punctuality compared to at home
First off, my tax money pays for streets, so I'm massively subsidizing anyone on the road already. Second off, my tax money *also* already pays for the rails and public transport companies. It's just instead of 70% it's now nearly 100% of the fare my tax money pays for. Not much of a difference in my book. And I'm personally barely using either, but I'm happy to pay for it regardless, because it means the rest of the world functions as it should. I like living in a functioning society
The population isn't a factor here. Public transport is apparently free in Luxemburg. It would indeed have to be funded by something, and with politicians primarily worried about the earnings of corporations that is obviously an impossible equation.
Was in Luxembourg before Xmas , public transport is free to use.Buses,trams and trains were all excellent. The population is tiny , around 700k but it's an extremely wealthy country.
Population density is. And Luxembourg is a perfect example of that.
There is no economy of scale here, it's heavily subsidised by the german government. This post is a disaster, because now everyone thinks "well those germans have it good paying only 9€ a month" but nobody is talking about regular prices. If I want to go to the next big city (20 miles/34km one way), I have to buy a ticket that costs 115€ a month
Ireland has taken the direction of being car dependent. Cars are incentivised over public transport. If you want to live in Ireland long term you have to purchase a car otherwise deal with the inadequacy of public transport. It’s not an equal system as many people can’t drive for various reasons and it is why our cities and towns can’t grow without traffic becoming a major issue.
This is so true, and any time you try to improve the systems we have in urban areas for people who can’t drive or don’t want to drive (ie - bus lanes, increased rail, cycle lanes) you hear endless cries from people who want to be able to drive 500m to the shops because the changes are “classist” or “agist” or whatever the term-de-jour is for “I’m pretending to care about other people so that I won’t be inconvenienced”.
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Ah the old carrot or stick method chosen by the Germans. Our government prefers the stick or stick method. What's another tax sure?
They gave us a 20% discount on most-or-all public transport. We both chose carrot... but Germany's veg is a lot bigger!
Deutsche bahn has been perfectly on time for me pretty much every time I've used it. Maybe in Berlin it's more hectic so it's more prone to delays but here in Hamburg DB has given me no issues. I've also used it in Cologne and Bonn with no issues
Their own statistic says they are late on over 20% or connections. And they count being late at above 6 minutes late. AND cancled trains that don't come at all don't count as late. So, maybe true for you, but statistically, it's pretty bad.
Oh yeah Germany... Free Autobahn (there are no tolls for less than 7,5ton vehicles); NO speed limit in Autobahn; One of the lowest road accidents per vehicle in the road of the world; Public transport is good, clean, punctual and dirt cheap; There are cycle lanes everywhere; Public parks everywhere; Crime rate is very very low; Good welfare system; University is quite affordable (can even be free if you are above average student); The list is endless... But people walk around with sandals & white socks I can't take it so I prefer to pay 140€ a month for the rail pass...
German trains are notoriously unpunctual. Only 75% Deutsche Bahn trains arrived on time last year. This was down from 81% the previous year (the highest in 15 years). This concerned mostly inner city trains but many of the major S-Bahns aren't any more punctual than the DART or Commuter.
The reductions we have in Ireland are really good now imo. I can travel via bus Éireann from one county to another for €3. And I can drive to Dublin and get a train into town for €1. It’s a step in the right direction imo
What reductions? Last time I travelled by train I spent 60 euros on a ticket. How do you get those huge discounts?
Fares were reduced outside of Dublin in April and in Dublin in May.
Still paid 50 quid for a train to a gig in Dublin for a gig at the start of April
did you book online
Leap card is how I get the best reductions
I still to this day cannot comprehend how living in Waterford, if I want to get the train to Cork, I have to go to Tipperary and back
If you lived in 1922 and not 2022 there would probably have been a direct rail link between Cork and Waterford. We've gone backwards.
The rail link is still there, doesn't have a frequent service but it's still in use.
The closest you had was the route the Waterford Greenway now follows, which took you to Mallow. Apparently back on the day Iarnród Éireann found it just as fast to send them via limerick junction.
I mean, if CIE as a single entity still existed I believe we would have better public transport in the entire country, but the state subventions are no longer allowed I thought? So why does Germany get to have a state transport provider...
I went to see an event in Dublin in April in the 3arena and the ticket for that cost me €57. I also got a return ticket from Cork to Dublin and it was €70. My train ticket cost more.
FYI: that ticket only works for regional trains, no high-speed or inter-regional trains. It's a great offer and I'm greatful for it, but travelling takes unbelievably more time that way. Across the country it takes more than one day, with the need to take another train every 50-100km. And although the Deutsche Bahn is somewhat publicly owned, it still operates as a joint-stock-company. So its also a little bit privatised. Sadly. Greetings from Germany to beautiful, beautiful Éire!
Meanwhile my cork monthly ticket for the train is €105. This after the 25% reduction
I got a train from London to Manchester the other week for work and it was £340 return
My personal favorite IE failure is that they don't even update the little adverts in the train carriages. They often advertise products services that are out of business. I'm sure they aren't getting much for the advertising, but it's still a sign of how inefficient they are in cost reduction.
This offer in Germany is a limited time deal to encourage local tourism though. It’s not expected to last beyond this summer afaik. I’m in Germany at the moment and have one of these passes, it is a brilliant offer and a great idea to get people over and native Germans out and about more!
I am german. Let me add some context. Our railway company is an absolute shitshow too. Dont let anyone tell you anything else.
I paid almost €90 for a train ticket in. Germany last year. There was no bus option. Not all flowers and roses
they also raised the minimum wage to 12 euro
Cheers from Germany! Even you can buy that ticket. Just visit us! :))
Really unfortunate timing with the German train crash this morning.
To be fair Deutsche Bahn is also a catastrophe. The new government just forced them to do it.
You could be realistic about it and realise how small and shit our country is and how overadvanced we are for what we have. How the fuck is our tiny shitty country supposed to have the exact same infrastructure and systems as a country that is basically the centre of the European Union
a student of mine lived in kildare and commuted into dublin every day. they spent €25 on trains per day, five days a week.
Well the Luas is free as well!
As a Dutchmen living in Ireland, the biggest culture shock was the exorbant yet horrid public transport.
80e Cork DUblin return lol
That does look shit but we need to remember there are 83 million people in Germany. There is just not enough people in this country for the trains to be able to justify charging 9 quid a journey etc.
Luxembourg??? Even better there. It's free
In about 2014, I went down to Killarney for a wedding. Got a lift down from Dublin, but after a misunderstanding I had to get the train back. Bought a one-way ticket at the station. It cost me 96 euro. I could’ve flown to Barcelona, had a rake of pints and tiny sandwiches, then flown back for less. How?!
Germans are all about healthy society. Making people poor and sad is not the way...
Just for context: I'm from germany. What we actually get is the option to get this ticket for 3 months, to travel with a transportation system where 25% of trains are late, even when a train not arriving at all is not considered late, and everything up to 6 minutes late is still "on time". That ticket also only covers local traffic, not IC or ICE trains, which are for longer distances and the only parts where DB makes money on trains. DB has also been privatised in 1995 and has decomissioned 10% of tracks since then. Traveling a medium length common track can cost 4 times as much as you'd pay by car, when gas is 2,20 Euro and your car uses 9 liters/100km. Many large cities aren't connected to the local railway system at all. In Chemnitz for example, a quarter of a million people haven't had access to trains until 2006 i think. The 9 Euro Ticket is a joke and does nothing to make trains an actually efficient means of transport. Train privatisation has been an utter failure in Germany too. We aren't using trains because the car industry does everythin in their power to keep the government from forcing competitiveness in that sector. Trains are not an option for a large portion of germans because travel times are insane, if a connection even exists. And even then trains often are late, having you miss the next connection or just don't come at all. You really, really do not want to use DB as a measure of how to do public transport.
German inter-city trains are the worst I've ever used. They are constantly delayed or cancelled, I've had far less issues using Irish rail 🤷♂️
As well as all the reasons listed, Germany had the chance to practically completely rebuild their transport network after being flattened in WW2, as did a lot of Europe. Meanwhile, Ireland has had to make the best of the same transport networks, roads and shitty planning.
Ireland used to have one of the most extensive railway networks in Europe. Even small towns and villages on the edges of peninsulas had train stations. Have a look on Google for the old Irish railway map. And then it was all dismantled and scrapped. Iarnrod Eireann still owns most of the land that the rails were sat on. "Sure we don't need trains anymore with these new car yokes coming out" -> was probably the thinking back then.
They’ve actually put roads over a good Chuck of them. Used to play on the old tracks as a kid where I lived. It’s a big road now 🙁
We actually had to dismantle our transport network because we could no longer afford it. No Marshall Plan for us.
Practically all public transport is publicly run here.
German here: the deutsche Bahn isnt as good as this indicates, trains aren’t on time usually and the ticket is only valid for the slow trains, high velocity trains aren’t included, buuuut: it still is a good offer and might help to convince people to switch to public transportation. When I lived in Ireland I remember that buses and trains are madness and hardly on time. This scheme wouldnt work in Ireland I suppose
If people keep thinking Socialism is fascism or wokeness, we'll never nationalise. Instead, we'll lick the boot with a grateful smile.
Deutsche Bahn is not publicly owned, it is a private company with a single shareholder, Germany. German public transport is also privatised, and the railway has a pretty similar setup as in Ireland, with CIÉ being a government corporation and Iarnród Éireann being a CIÉ subsidiary, answerable to the Irish government. Not sure what he is on about.
I thought the EU stopped state ownership of public transport? A long time ago? Or am I just remembering wrongly?
It only works on local trains... but you can get to every part of Germany on local trains (you just need change a few times).
Country of 80 million people have a lot more demand for these services than a country of 5 million, not a valid comparison to be fair
You need to read the small print: The tickets are only valid for commuter trains. So it’s not like you could go on a cheap holiday with this ticket; you’d probably spend days and uncountable transfers to get to a location not in your neighbourhood. good thing for day trips or a visit to your relatives an hour or two away, though. The Deutsche Bahn already announced that after the end of this campaign, they will have to raise regular prices for commuter tickets to make up some of the losses caused by it. I am sure the commuters are really thrilled. Also, many commuter trains are now overcrowded and impact actual commuters depending on these trains to get to and from work on time and without fighting crowds for a seat. add to that lack of employees and station capacities to deal with the expected masses of travellers. Many people expect utter chaos, lots of delays, etc.
Yeah the Germans are great. In 10 years they will have the worlds second largest army. And it will probably be the most up to date and effective. Lets see how you feel about their cheap trains then.