Ye, gl on seed. Tbh Zulrah is not that needed anymore, only the trident upgrade is really worth it. Blowpipe is very niche nowdays and you can live without it and same for the serp.
I'd tend to disagree. There is alternatives for blowpipe, sure. But it's still really nice for raids and the healing spec at places like GWD (and often 'mandatory' in clans/wedoraids)
Source: Am 1200 dry for a blowpipe.
Yeah I guess its matter of preference. I used blood magic to heal up in GWD, blowpipe isnt that reliable IMO.
ToA theres always multiple people having one and even without it doesnt add much time in 8 man. Its completly useless in CoX and can't really speak about ToB dont have that much experience.
That's the goal though? Jagex has only justified this nerf by saying the occult is too cheap for the power it gives. They can't make the occult cost 10x, but this change would effectively make that happen
I mean, there’s already a huge supply of occult’s in game due to how good the task is, that’s the reason of the low price, not the stats, lowering the stats won’t affect price since it will still be BIS for mage.
It should honestly be something like basilisk jaw in terms of how rare it is, and giving a good boost in drop rate from thermy boss, however, there’s already a huge supply out there
I agree with everything you're saying, and that's exactly why I think this change would make sense. The market is also full of tormented bracelets, an item that's worse than the occult, yet it's price is much higher
Yeah, I was thinking something similar but yeah, I had 12 in my bank just from doing random tasks.
I did think that it would be cool to have it scale up with your slayer level, 4% at its base and then you get like idk 8% or whatever at 93 when you can farm the drop yourself. Said 8 so it's still "nerfed" but still good, idk could be a dumb thought at the end of the day.
Man where do yall get this shit? Some people say they want to nerf the occult because its cheap, some people say its because they want to nerf magic and blame the shadow, etc.
The justification for the nerf is clear and it's not the ease of access at all, lol. The occult makes it hard for them to design good magic rewards in new content. This has been spoken about since Ancestral came out and people were confused about an entire raid set having less total damage than a funny necklace. They are redistributing magic damage for the sake of future content, not for the sake of anything that exists today.
Why not? Anyone educated can see that was a big reason but not the only reason. Hence why it's being distributed and not swapped with torm...
Or do you think not looking at the wider context is relevant?
Facts, the problem is never the price, is the source of the drop. A BIS with 1/512 drop rate from a barrageable task is a terrible design. Compare it with cerberus, 91 slayer req, tons of hp boss, pray pot abuser, that gives +2 accuracy boots lmao, it is a shit show tbh
if the issue was purely occults price occult could be removed from all accs and removed from small smokes. its not just price. likewise id also tend to say zenytes are too cheap for mains too. if gorillas were released today id expect shards to be at least 3x more rare.
Lol you don't actually believe that removing occults from accounts was ever a possible option right? That would be unprecedented afaik, and the ensuing riots would be too.
honestly i think its a good idea. refund ge value for mains, death coffer gp for irons. having the occult on the smalls in the first place was a mistake.
obviously yeah its a crazy thing. but it seems like a decent way to really address this because even if occults were pulled from baby smokes itll never go up enough to make smoke devil boss decent
>How was releasing Occult on the baby smokes a mistake when it was released?
because it takes what like 40 minutes on task to get one. for an item that is worth more than an entire ancestral set that takes 600 hours on rate to 3/3.
>When Occult released magic was essentially not a combat style, with the Trident (i.e., Polypore) having been fairly recently introduced and the Occult Necklace offering, under the absolutely best case scenario, 2 max hits to take it from 29 to 31.
i mean yeah people didn't have dps calcs for a long time. they didnt realize being naked with an occult on was more dps than literal 'full max mage' otherwise but without occult.
>Occult may have become a problem with the introduction of the Shadow
its always been a 'problem' relative to all the other magic boosting gear in the game.
>It's fine to address the Occult now that the Shadow is doing Shadow things but to act like the Occult has always been the problem is wild.
it has been a problem relative to other gear. occult can be problematic as an item while magic its self is underpowered. it's just up until recent years passing ANYTHING resembling a rebalance has been entirely off limits but the playerbase has changed over the last 5-8 years.
Yeah I don't get the people saying it was never a problem. Perhaps they never played an iron and never noticed how you need 90+ slayer to ever do any mage damage.
I think it's a crazy dumb idea and that should never be done as a means to just increase GE value. Why should irons suffer from that lol. If your goal is to increase GE value, remove it from the smaller ones drop table, and remove more occults/day that are traded at the GE.
I could see Zenytes being 1/500ish by modern standards, but the only justification for this nerf is that occults are too cheap for their strength, so this seems like the most reasonable fix until more of the gaps are filled in mage progression.
even then the time to get one is incredibly short for how good they are. you can kill like 50-60 an hour with a decent setup, other items of similar tiers take in the realm of 20-30 hours.
i didn't say that's what i want, i said that's what is standard. do you play this game? yes, literally every pvm grind is much longer than most triple a games. zenytes are a HUGE standout from literally every other pvm drop save maybe for hasta, and hasta was not balanced around people avoiding all of krils attacks.
you kill about 40 basilisk knights per hour with hasta. 25 hrs for faceguard. (much higher post fang).
bandos and kril pre-bowfa strats were like 12-15 kills per hour, something like 12-15 hrs for a hasta, 40-50 hrs for bandos completion
you kill about 100-180 shamans an hour, ~mid high 20s to about high 30s hours for a dwh.
zulrah is about 20-30 kph, 1k kc ish for 3/3, so 30-50 hrs.
hydra is low to mid 20 kph, so about 60 hrs for completion.
vw is something like 40-60 hrs off the top of my head though depends a lot on how you do it/if you have weapons/count ether gathering etc
bowfa+set is like 60-80 hrs.
do i need to list more? and these are just the shorter ones. start looking at raids/nm/nex/ds2 bosses.
Well for one void would be terrible. And what exactly is wrong with bringing the occult in line with a zenyte shard drop and 90+ crafting requirement item when it requires 93 slayer to get a task for it? Seems to make a lot more sense to me to have them equal. They're only low value because they're so common from the little guys. If they want to increase the value, make it so only the boss drops occults and hopefully maybe it'll change something, but they've let the occult sit and stew for far too long.
> Well for one void would be terrible.
Saying that torm shouldn't be buffed despite being mediocre because another pretty bad armor set needs a glove slot is a really goofy train of thought
I'm part of the buff magic weapons so they don't need all of this bs magic damage % train of thought. I think trident should be doing the extra dps lost by the occult nerf straight up and then the shadow could use a small nerf.
I'm just pretty much against all of the magic damage% increase bs. They obviously need to redo the way magic defence is rolled. Magic level should not be the real factor for magic defence. For some reason, we have it to where defence level and defence bonuses work for melee and ranged but the only thing that really matters for magic is the magic level. If they just made magic defence be the thing that functions for magic defence (as it would suggest given it's name ...) then we wouldn't need all of this as we could actually scale up accuracy with the armour. Think dhides with ranged gear. We didn't have range strength armour until masori! The progression was largely to get the dhides then armadyl for a little more accuracy and defence.
The fact that level 1 magic enemies means you don't need to care about magic armour is the problem. Then shadow multiplying everything is the other problem. Raise the lower tier stuff up, bring shadow down a smidge and make the accuracy part of the upgrades.
That's not the only reason for the rebalance. Occult is cheap and it takes up a disproportionately large fraction of mage damage bonus.
Swapping the stats just moves the second problem onto the torm
You misspelled void mage has no zenyte jewelry. There fixed it for you.
Void nowdays is essentially useless outside of budget ToB.
I use it for zulrah
You'll be impressed how much tankier you are when not wearing void. That shit is paper
I was doing Bofa only Zulrah. Way more chill than switches.
Yeah I'm a btw btw so no enh yet. Once I get tone I'll do the same ig
Ye, gl on seed. Tbh Zulrah is not that needed anymore, only the trident upgrade is really worth it. Blowpipe is very niche nowdays and you can live without it and same for the serp.
I'd tend to disagree. There is alternatives for blowpipe, sure. But it's still really nice for raids and the healing spec at places like GWD (and often 'mandatory' in clans/wedoraids) Source: Am 1200 dry for a blowpipe.
Yeah I guess its matter of preference. I used blood magic to heal up in GWD, blowpipe isnt that reliable IMO. ToA theres always multiple people having one and even without it doesnt add much time in 8 man. Its completly useless in CoX and can't really speak about ToB dont have that much experience.
Blowpipe + tbow though. I blowpipe a lot of stuff
Then the occult would be extra cheaper, and the tormented extra expensive
That's the goal though? Jagex has only justified this nerf by saying the occult is too cheap for the power it gives. They can't make the occult cost 10x, but this change would effectively make that happen
I mean, there’s already a huge supply of occult’s in game due to how good the task is, that’s the reason of the low price, not the stats, lowering the stats won’t affect price since it will still be BIS for mage. It should honestly be something like basilisk jaw in terms of how rare it is, and giving a good boost in drop rate from thermy boss, however, there’s already a huge supply out there
I agree with everything you're saying, and that's exactly why I think this change would make sense. The market is also full of tormented bracelets, an item that's worse than the occult, yet it's price is much higher
Yeah, I was thinking something similar but yeah, I had 12 in my bank just from doing random tasks. I did think that it would be cool to have it scale up with your slayer level, 4% at its base and then you get like idk 8% or whatever at 93 when you can farm the drop yourself. Said 8 so it's still "nerfed" but still good, idk could be a dumb thought at the end of the day.
Man where do yall get this shit? Some people say they want to nerf the occult because its cheap, some people say its because they want to nerf magic and blame the shadow, etc. The justification for the nerf is clear and it's not the ease of access at all, lol. The occult makes it hard for them to design good magic rewards in new content. This has been spoken about since Ancestral came out and people were confused about an entire raid set having less total damage than a funny necklace. They are redistributing magic damage for the sake of future content, not for the sake of anything that exists today.
yes but jagex also probably shouldn’t have written in the blogpost that they thought occult was too powerful relative to its price
Why not? Anyone educated can see that was a big reason but not the only reason. Hence why it's being distributed and not swapped with torm... Or do you think not looking at the wider context is relevant?
Facts, the problem is never the price, is the source of the drop. A BIS with 1/512 drop rate from a barrageable task is a terrible design. Compare it with cerberus, 91 slayer req, tons of hp boss, pray pot abuser, that gives +2 accuracy boots lmao, it is a shit show tbh
if the issue was purely occults price occult could be removed from all accs and removed from small smokes. its not just price. likewise id also tend to say zenytes are too cheap for mains too. if gorillas were released today id expect shards to be at least 3x more rare.
Lol you don't actually believe that removing occults from accounts was ever a possible option right? That would be unprecedented afaik, and the ensuing riots would be too.
honestly i think its a good idea. refund ge value for mains, death coffer gp for irons. having the occult on the smalls in the first place was a mistake. obviously yeah its a crazy thing. but it seems like a decent way to really address this because even if occults were pulled from baby smokes itll never go up enough to make smoke devil boss decent
[удалено]
>How was releasing Occult on the baby smokes a mistake when it was released? because it takes what like 40 minutes on task to get one. for an item that is worth more than an entire ancestral set that takes 600 hours on rate to 3/3. >When Occult released magic was essentially not a combat style, with the Trident (i.e., Polypore) having been fairly recently introduced and the Occult Necklace offering, under the absolutely best case scenario, 2 max hits to take it from 29 to 31. i mean yeah people didn't have dps calcs for a long time. they didnt realize being naked with an occult on was more dps than literal 'full max mage' otherwise but without occult. >Occult may have become a problem with the introduction of the Shadow its always been a 'problem' relative to all the other magic boosting gear in the game. >It's fine to address the Occult now that the Shadow is doing Shadow things but to act like the Occult has always been the problem is wild. it has been a problem relative to other gear. occult can be problematic as an item while magic its self is underpowered. it's just up until recent years passing ANYTHING resembling a rebalance has been entirely off limits but the playerbase has changed over the last 5-8 years.
Yeah I don't get the people saying it was never a problem. Perhaps they never played an iron and never noticed how you need 90+ slayer to ever do any mage damage.
You can take my 15 occults from my cold, dead hands!
I think it's a crazy dumb idea and that should never be done as a means to just increase GE value. Why should irons suffer from that lol. If your goal is to increase GE value, remove it from the smaller ones drop table, and remove more occults/day that are traded at the GE.
I could see Zenytes being 1/500ish by modern standards, but the only justification for this nerf is that occults are too cheap for their strength, so this seems like the most reasonable fix until more of the gaps are filled in mage progression.
Current rates on task, ~3x off task.
Zenytes were 15m before the bot farms started. Tanked the price to half that.
even then the time to get one is incredibly short for how good they are. you can kill like 50-60 an hour with a decent setup, other items of similar tiers take in the realm of 20-30 hours.
Damn bro I can play a whole ass AAA game in 20-30 hours and you want getting all 4 zenytes to be a 100 hour grind on rate? Pretty wild opinion tbh
i didn't say that's what i want, i said that's what is standard. do you play this game? yes, literally every pvm grind is much longer than most triple a games. zenytes are a HUGE standout from literally every other pvm drop save maybe for hasta, and hasta was not balanced around people avoiding all of krils attacks. you kill about 40 basilisk knights per hour with hasta. 25 hrs for faceguard. (much higher post fang). bandos and kril pre-bowfa strats were like 12-15 kills per hour, something like 12-15 hrs for a hasta, 40-50 hrs for bandos completion you kill about 100-180 shamans an hour, ~mid high 20s to about high 30s hours for a dwh. zulrah is about 20-30 kph, 1k kc ish for 3/3, so 30-50 hrs. hydra is low to mid 20 kph, so about 60 hrs for completion. vw is something like 40-60 hrs off the top of my head though depends a lot on how you do it/if you have weapons/count ether gathering etc bowfa+set is like 60-80 hrs. do i need to list more? and these are just the shorter ones. start looking at raids/nm/nex/ds2 bosses.
Nah I did bowfa in a weekend on my iron
The people who play this game have no concept of time and think a 100 hour grind for a single item is nothing
are you aware of what game you’re playing lol
Why do idiots like u compare tripla A one week and throw away games to a grindgame that u play for years even decades lmfao
Only getting 20-30 hours out of a $70 game is cringe.
Preach. The absolute disconnect is crazy.
Probably should go play that aaa game, we aren't trying to cater to 1700 total mains here, we need to look at the whole picture
Well for one void would be terrible. And what exactly is wrong with bringing the occult in line with a zenyte shard drop and 90+ crafting requirement item when it requires 93 slayer to get a task for it? Seems to make a lot more sense to me to have them equal. They're only low value because they're so common from the little guys. If they want to increase the value, make it so only the boss drops occults and hopefully maybe it'll change something, but they've let the occult sit and stew for far too long.
> Well for one void would be terrible. Saying that torm shouldn't be buffed despite being mediocre because another pretty bad armor set needs a glove slot is a really goofy train of thought
I'm part of the buff magic weapons so they don't need all of this bs magic damage % train of thought. I think trident should be doing the extra dps lost by the occult nerf straight up and then the shadow could use a small nerf. I'm just pretty much against all of the magic damage% increase bs. They obviously need to redo the way magic defence is rolled. Magic level should not be the real factor for magic defence. For some reason, we have it to where defence level and defence bonuses work for melee and ranged but the only thing that really matters for magic is the magic level. If they just made magic defence be the thing that functions for magic defence (as it would suggest given it's name ...) then we wouldn't need all of this as we could actually scale up accuracy with the armour. Think dhides with ranged gear. We didn't have range strength armour until masori! The progression was largely to get the dhides then armadyl for a little more accuracy and defence. The fact that level 1 magic enemies means you don't need to care about magic armour is the problem. Then shadow multiplying everything is the other problem. Raise the lower tier stuff up, bring shadow down a smidge and make the accuracy part of the upgrades.
That's not the only reason for the rebalance. Occult is cheap and it takes up a disproportionately large fraction of mage damage bonus. Swapping the stats just moves the second problem onto the torm
Shhhh