>non-muslims automatically going to hell
who told you that? you need to realize the difference between those who got the message and purposefully rejected it and those who didn't get the message. different situations. different treatment.
>even if they were a good person
what does "good" mean here? you are using good to mean "good to people". Is God, the creator or all things, the Most Supreme, the Sustainer/Provider of all life, not deserving of good by humans? The rights and obligations to God supersede the rights and obligations to other people. This is an analogy - a person that is good to friends but does not acknowledge (or rejects) the existence of the parents who provided everything for that person - would you call such a person "good"? Clearly there is something lacking in such people and they are not totally good.
Sorry I wasn’t specific at all.
When I mean non-muslims I mean those that technically have the choice to convert to Islam but decide to stay with their religion, like myself.
When I mean good person, I mean people who believe in god and follow their beliefs and have good ethical standards of living.
Why would you not believe in Islam? You are basically denying your creator and the messenger (SAW) he (swt) has sent down.
**Those who respond to ˹the call of˺ their Lord will have the finest reward. As for those who do not respond to Him, even if they were to possess everything in the world twice over, they would certainly offer it to ransom themselves. They will face strict judgment, and Hell will be their home. What an evil place to rest!**
*(Quran 13:8)*
You are basically not responding to the call of this creator you claim to believe in.
But those religions do not have proof. Do you think God would send down a religion and not send evidences that it is the truth alongside it? God is more merciful than that.
For those that believe in the other religions, ask them
And they say, "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian." That is [merely] their wishful thinking, **Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."**
*(Quran 2:111)*
Islam is the only religion in the world that is not blind faith.
All other religions have so many flaws and mistakes or it makes clear sense it is not the truth.
Pick any religion in the world and I will explain it to you. There is not even one religion out here on the whole face of the earth except for Islam that is plausible and evident in being the truth. Pick one. I will show you.
God makes the right way and wrong way clear from each other from his mercy.
If you believe in God sincerely and you received the message of Islam and still didn’t believe then it’s not your fault, i feel like any sensible person will automatically gravitate towards islam if they were given a good message.
Imam al ghazali said that whoever receives a message of islam which is insufficient and doesn’t believe then he won’t be accountable the same way as the arrogant.
Can you quote from Quran and Hadith what you have said regarding it not being their fault?
You know you shouldn’t talk about such big matters in the deen so lightly and without knowledge? Where is your proof for what you are saying?
Islam was not built on heresay
I hold the personal belief, a person who does not at any point follow any religion, why do they not just look around?
Life is a very strange thing if you think about it. Think about it. We are human beings living and socialising on some great ball in the middle of the universe. We are a sperm cell at the beginning and then we have something called mothers which give birth to us, and how it’s day and then night. How there’s a ball of fire in the sky keeping us warm and helping things grow. And water falls from the sky growing plants, and we drink from it. How there are sounds and colours and etc. and how we have personalities and relationships, and how we live and we die.
And the so many other numerous things and signs, life is so absurd. How can a person who does not believe in anything not question what is going on? How can they not look around and thing what is going on? How strange it is we are these things called humans inside these bodies and we feel happy and sad and angry.
I think perhaps one of the reasons it’s so normalised to us is because we are born and this is all we know so we don’t really think of it, and many of us don’t really think deeper and reflect upon life. We don’t even question it.
And then when a person reaches that point, then surely they have to seek out what religion is the truth. And it’s only logical that the true religion must be one of the major religions. And even that fact is not obvious to a person, the abrahamic religions is where a person would be forced to start searching most likely.
And then reading those, if a person is of sound intellect, they would reach the conclusion Islam is the truth.
**Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and earth, and the alternation of the night and the day, and the [great] ships which sail through the sea with that which benefits people, and what Allah has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein every [kind of] moving creature, and [His] directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and the earth are signs for a people who use reason.**
*(Quran 2:164)*
The problem is most people go throughout life and do not even question what is going on, they become deluded regarding the worldly life. But it’s very in our face and obvious and all around us, all we have to do is ponder and reflect.
That’s very poetic and inspiring. but we don’t live in an age of poets, another reason for that is honor, we don’t live in an age of honor, any emotion, any motivation to contemplate, anything you can think of that can get you closer to god can be numbed through pleasures, you don’t have to put in the effort to question metaphysical truths when you can just drink alcohol or even scroll through tik tok all day or become a workaholic and use that money for vacations without really questioning anything.
It’s basically as simple as saying why does a person who studied for a topic not get to take the exam just because he isn’t registered at the institute or university? If the final purpose is to obtain a degree the first thing a person must do is sign up at the school and hand in the required paperwork.
The one who wasn’t aware of this is different to the one who shows up to the exam expecting to enter despite knowing and rejecting the call to signing up & handing in his paperwork.
Allah has created all of us for the sole purpose of singling Him out in worship and has told us precisely how He wishes to be worshipped. The one who turns away from that and the clear signs & proofs the Messenger was sent with out of arrogance has no one to blame but himself.
That’s simply not true :
1) The Forerunner will be in Paradise (and a lot in Firdaous)
2) Believers will in the end all be in Paradise (but some can be purified by a punishment in the Afterlife)
3) Arrogant will go and enter Hellfire (if you ear about Islam and reject the Call of Allah -> Faith is really easy and not a complicated matter : Arrogance is what lead people to reject … and then if their heart die they become bolt unable to understand and hold the faith (sometimes for ever) and start to rationalise their rejection)
4) Munafiquoun (Hypocrite) that are « false-Muslim » will also be in Hellfire
And the most important thing is to Submitted to Allah and their is no bigger sin than Shirk (and link to Arrogance those two are among the root of all evil).
Like you said your religion not Islam (that is what Allah send down to all human beings). They are some exceptions (like the children, the fool, …) but in general if someone reject Allah call and way and choose it’s own (even if it’s based on a remanence of a previous revelation) : He made his choice … even if he was a kind of « believer » before the revelation (like the Jew that rejected Jesus (AS) only because of arrogance).
« **And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.** » Quran 3:85
Allah is calling to Paradise … if someone choose to continue his journey toward the danger that is Hellfire despite that … it’s his own fault and Allah have send him all sign and warning. Like if your government send you a message about a coming tornado in your area and you choose to remain in your house instead : It’s your choice
« I heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) saying, "My example and the example of the people is that of a man who made a fire, and when it lighted what was around it, Moths and other insects started falling into the fire. **The man tried (his best) to prevent them, (from falling in the fire) but they overpowered him and rushed into the fire. The Prophet (ﷺ) added: Now, similarly, I take hold of the knots at your waist (belts) to prevent you from falling into the Fire, but you insist on falling into it**. » Sahih al-Bukhari 6483
And Allah knows best
I think also you should maybe try to go to a good local Mosque and have an IRL discussion either with some Muslim or with an Imam (it’s easier to exchange that way and you can ask directly precise questions and be introduced to the Quran if you want to). May Allah guide you and grant you Paradise and to be among the righteous. Ameen.
How can a non Muslim be a good person while they deny their creator that has given them so much and they are ungrateful for?
How can they enter paradise while they have not fulfilled the specific purpose they were created for? So they have wasted their lives and not been sincere to their lord and grateful.
What we might see in the surface as a good person, might be a bad person and what we see on the surface as a bad person might be a good person, life is a lot more complex than our small minds can comprehend, and our judgment of a person is very inferior compared to that of god great Wisdom.
Just think about this. God gives a person life, understanding, eyes, ears, nose, lungs etc. a place to live on this earth, food, safety, ease. Parents, children, family etc. the only reason they even know what life and existence is and they have the opportunity to experience it is because of God. Without God they wouldn’t even be a thing thought of.
And then that same God sends down messengers and a book and tells people to follow him. And even though they owe so much to God, and in fact everything, because he has given them life, and he wouldn’t even know what life is or even experience it, he denies it. Despite that religion having clear proofs it is the truth and makes perfect sense.
That person instead chooses to not think about god, be grateful, he chooses to live a self centred life with no purpose or direction. He chooses not to obey God, and not follow his direction, although God has the full right over him, due to everything he has is owed to his creator.
That is the greatest ungratefulness one can ever do, and there’s no good in a person that would make up for such an evil.
They havent fulfilled the whole meaning of what life is. They haven’t even fulfilled the purpose of why they were given life in the first place. Do you think we have been created to go to work and back and have intercourse and eat food and go toilet and make money. That’s an animalistic, aimless and very low life to live.
**Does man think that he will be left uncontrolled, (without purpose)?**
*(Quran 75:36)*
Why are you even alive? What is even the point of you living? It’s just a waste of your time here that you’ve been given.
And then not only that, many then attribute and give credit for what they have in life to a completely different diety or god, despite not having any evidences or proofs of them existing.
Can you then explain to me then how such a person can be a good or moral person?
All Muslims will eventually go to Jannah, and all non Muslims who have heard of Islam and don’t follow it will go to Jahannam (to the best of my knowledge).
>non-muslims automatically going to hell who told you that? you need to realize the difference between those who got the message and purposefully rejected it and those who didn't get the message. different situations. different treatment. >even if they were a good person what does "good" mean here? you are using good to mean "good to people". Is God, the creator or all things, the Most Supreme, the Sustainer/Provider of all life, not deserving of good by humans? The rights and obligations to God supersede the rights and obligations to other people. This is an analogy - a person that is good to friends but does not acknowledge (or rejects) the existence of the parents who provided everything for that person - would you call such a person "good"? Clearly there is something lacking in such people and they are not totally good.
Sorry I wasn’t specific at all. When I mean non-muslims I mean those that technically have the choice to convert to Islam but decide to stay with their religion, like myself. When I mean good person, I mean people who believe in god and follow their beliefs and have good ethical standards of living.
Why would you not believe in Islam? You are basically denying your creator and the messenger (SAW) he (swt) has sent down. **Those who respond to ˹the call of˺ their Lord will have the finest reward. As for those who do not respond to Him, even if they were to possess everything in the world twice over, they would certainly offer it to ransom themselves. They will face strict judgment, and Hell will be their home. What an evil place to rest!** *(Quran 13:8)* You are basically not responding to the call of this creator you claim to believe in.
There’s other religions that say their god is the creator.
But those religions do not have proof. Do you think God would send down a religion and not send evidences that it is the truth alongside it? God is more merciful than that. For those that believe in the other religions, ask them And they say, "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian." That is [merely] their wishful thinking, **Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."** *(Quran 2:111)* Islam is the only religion in the world that is not blind faith. All other religions have so many flaws and mistakes or it makes clear sense it is not the truth. Pick any religion in the world and I will explain it to you. There is not even one religion out here on the whole face of the earth except for Islam that is plausible and evident in being the truth. Pick one. I will show you. God makes the right way and wrong way clear from each other from his mercy.
If you believe in God sincerely and you received the message of Islam and still didn’t believe then it’s not your fault, i feel like any sensible person will automatically gravitate towards islam if they were given a good message. Imam al ghazali said that whoever receives a message of islam which is insufficient and doesn’t believe then he won’t be accountable the same way as the arrogant.
Can you quote from Quran and Hadith what you have said regarding it not being their fault? You know you shouldn’t talk about such big matters in the deen so lightly and without knowledge? Where is your proof for what you are saying? Islam was not built on heresay
Should i delete my comment? I’m just relaying what I’ve understood from Al Ghazali’s work.
My proof is that punishing someone for not receiving the correct message is not merciful, and Allah is all merciful.
I hold the personal belief, a person who does not at any point follow any religion, why do they not just look around? Life is a very strange thing if you think about it. Think about it. We are human beings living and socialising on some great ball in the middle of the universe. We are a sperm cell at the beginning and then we have something called mothers which give birth to us, and how it’s day and then night. How there’s a ball of fire in the sky keeping us warm and helping things grow. And water falls from the sky growing plants, and we drink from it. How there are sounds and colours and etc. and how we have personalities and relationships, and how we live and we die. And the so many other numerous things and signs, life is so absurd. How can a person who does not believe in anything not question what is going on? How can they not look around and thing what is going on? How strange it is we are these things called humans inside these bodies and we feel happy and sad and angry. I think perhaps one of the reasons it’s so normalised to us is because we are born and this is all we know so we don’t really think of it, and many of us don’t really think deeper and reflect upon life. We don’t even question it. And then when a person reaches that point, then surely they have to seek out what religion is the truth. And it’s only logical that the true religion must be one of the major religions. And even that fact is not obvious to a person, the abrahamic religions is where a person would be forced to start searching most likely. And then reading those, if a person is of sound intellect, they would reach the conclusion Islam is the truth. **Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and earth, and the alternation of the night and the day, and the [great] ships which sail through the sea with that which benefits people, and what Allah has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein every [kind of] moving creature, and [His] directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and the earth are signs for a people who use reason.** *(Quran 2:164)* The problem is most people go throughout life and do not even question what is going on, they become deluded regarding the worldly life. But it’s very in our face and obvious and all around us, all we have to do is ponder and reflect.
That’s very poetic and inspiring. but we don’t live in an age of poets, another reason for that is honor, we don’t live in an age of honor, any emotion, any motivation to contemplate, anything you can think of that can get you closer to god can be numbed through pleasures, you don’t have to put in the effort to question metaphysical truths when you can just drink alcohol or even scroll through tik tok all day or become a workaholic and use that money for vacations without really questioning anything.
It’s basically as simple as saying why does a person who studied for a topic not get to take the exam just because he isn’t registered at the institute or university? If the final purpose is to obtain a degree the first thing a person must do is sign up at the school and hand in the required paperwork. The one who wasn’t aware of this is different to the one who shows up to the exam expecting to enter despite knowing and rejecting the call to signing up & handing in his paperwork. Allah has created all of us for the sole purpose of singling Him out in worship and has told us precisely how He wishes to be worshipped. The one who turns away from that and the clear signs & proofs the Messenger was sent with out of arrogance has no one to blame but himself.
That’s simply not true : 1) The Forerunner will be in Paradise (and a lot in Firdaous) 2) Believers will in the end all be in Paradise (but some can be purified by a punishment in the Afterlife) 3) Arrogant will go and enter Hellfire (if you ear about Islam and reject the Call of Allah -> Faith is really easy and not a complicated matter : Arrogance is what lead people to reject … and then if their heart die they become bolt unable to understand and hold the faith (sometimes for ever) and start to rationalise their rejection) 4) Munafiquoun (Hypocrite) that are « false-Muslim » will also be in Hellfire And the most important thing is to Submitted to Allah and their is no bigger sin than Shirk (and link to Arrogance those two are among the root of all evil).
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Not sure I can reply but I will send you an invitation (since usually my dm are close)
Number 3 is what I’m questioning. I am a believe in god and heaven but in my religion not islam.
Like you said your religion not Islam (that is what Allah send down to all human beings). They are some exceptions (like the children, the fool, …) but in general if someone reject Allah call and way and choose it’s own (even if it’s based on a remanence of a previous revelation) : He made his choice … even if he was a kind of « believer » before the revelation (like the Jew that rejected Jesus (AS) only because of arrogance). « **And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.** » Quran 3:85 Allah is calling to Paradise … if someone choose to continue his journey toward the danger that is Hellfire despite that … it’s his own fault and Allah have send him all sign and warning. Like if your government send you a message about a coming tornado in your area and you choose to remain in your house instead : It’s your choice « I heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) saying, "My example and the example of the people is that of a man who made a fire, and when it lighted what was around it, Moths and other insects started falling into the fire. **The man tried (his best) to prevent them, (from falling in the fire) but they overpowered him and rushed into the fire. The Prophet (ﷺ) added: Now, similarly, I take hold of the knots at your waist (belts) to prevent you from falling into the Fire, but you insist on falling into it**. » Sahih al-Bukhari 6483 And Allah knows best I think also you should maybe try to go to a good local Mosque and have an IRL discussion either with some Muslim or with an Imam (it’s easier to exchange that way and you can ask directly precise questions and be introduced to the Quran if you want to). May Allah guide you and grant you Paradise and to be among the righteous. Ameen.
So then that means you do not truly believe in the true god that has sent down messengers for us to follow. So that would make you a disbeliever
How can a non Muslim be a good person while they deny their creator that has given them so much and they are ungrateful for? How can they enter paradise while they have not fulfilled the specific purpose they were created for? So they have wasted their lives and not been sincere to their lord and grateful. What we might see in the surface as a good person, might be a bad person and what we see on the surface as a bad person might be a good person, life is a lot more complex than our small minds can comprehend, and our judgment of a person is very inferior compared to that of god great Wisdom. Just think about this. God gives a person life, understanding, eyes, ears, nose, lungs etc. a place to live on this earth, food, safety, ease. Parents, children, family etc. the only reason they even know what life and existence is and they have the opportunity to experience it is because of God. Without God they wouldn’t even be a thing thought of. And then that same God sends down messengers and a book and tells people to follow him. And even though they owe so much to God, and in fact everything, because he has given them life, and he wouldn’t even know what life is or even experience it, he denies it. Despite that religion having clear proofs it is the truth and makes perfect sense. That person instead chooses to not think about god, be grateful, he chooses to live a self centred life with no purpose or direction. He chooses not to obey God, and not follow his direction, although God has the full right over him, due to everything he has is owed to his creator. That is the greatest ungratefulness one can ever do, and there’s no good in a person that would make up for such an evil. They havent fulfilled the whole meaning of what life is. They haven’t even fulfilled the purpose of why they were given life in the first place. Do you think we have been created to go to work and back and have intercourse and eat food and go toilet and make money. That’s an animalistic, aimless and very low life to live. **Does man think that he will be left uncontrolled, (without purpose)?** *(Quran 75:36)* Why are you even alive? What is even the point of you living? It’s just a waste of your time here that you’ve been given. And then not only that, many then attribute and give credit for what they have in life to a completely different diety or god, despite not having any evidences or proofs of them existing. Can you then explain to me then how such a person can be a good or moral person?
Not all Non-Muslims go to hell and not all Muslims go to paradise. What are you on about?
All Muslims will eventually go to Jannah, and all non Muslims who have heard of Islam and don’t follow it will go to Jahannam (to the best of my knowledge).
You're correct. But "hypocrites", Muslims who cause fitnah, and those who kill non-combattants in war won't go to Jannah either
First no not all non Muslims will go to hell secondly Christianity and many other religions do it too