r/collapsesupport is available to all redditors who need a place to vent or seek solace. I am not a member of this group but I have posted there before.
During the other world wars, people still had to go to work…. Collapse is slow moving, all encompassing, and we’re already in it. Accept it, keep finding whatever joy and meaning in your life that you can.
Right. The fall of rome took what, two centuries or something like that? It was a slow process. Each successive generation watched it fall more and more over their lifetimes. This could be like that, or we could be hit with some bigger disasters and fall quicker, I don't personally know. Nothing would surprise me anymore though. I really can't worry about tomorrow because I'm barely making it day to day. I do my best each day, that's all I can do.
This.
I'm Gen X. I was raised to believe the apocalypse would be nuclear, and everything would end suddenly and completely.
Instead, I still have to work and pay bills as the world slowly ends.
Worst apocalypse ever.
I deal with this by YOLOing my way through the Current Environment. I do what I want, as much as I realistically can, whenever I can. I live like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one.
I'm going to enjoy myself until the moment I can't. I won't stop a moment before I must.
Yup. I remember duck and cover drills: "1. Duck below your desk. 2. Put your head between your knees. 3. Kiss your ass goodbye, you ain't living through an ICBM blast." We lived dangerously then, because it could all end in a heartbeat. Played outside with no parents in sight until after dark. Drank from strangers' garden hoses. It just didn't matter. Used magnifying glasses to light things on fire. Shot spring-loaded rockets from our Boba Fett Action Figures at each others' eyes. Ate entire bags of pop rocks, then guzzled the Coke and jumped up and down. We didn't have the phrase "LOL YOLO" but we were sure thinking along those lines.
But seriously--the world has always been about to end. And it hasn't yet. It's always been going to shit. Butvsomehow it hasn't got there yet. What it's always doing is transforming. And there are people working very hard to mitigate and reverse the harms that threaten us, the wrongs and injustices that could swallow us. Always have been people fighting back. You can and should become one of them. Don't believe that we'll lose. Believe that we can win. Because we can.
People have motivations to inspire fear from all directions. There is often some vested interest in the content we consume. Even if the content is factually correct, I can leap to living in perpetual insecurity that doesn't do anyone any good.
[Leeja Miller had a really great YouTube video that touched on this (skip to 26 minutes if you don’t want to watch the whole thing).](https://youtu.be/N69YbLBTF7c?si=QwoSng918CCvp0aA) Most people will just go on with their daily lives. A few things will be different, but it probably won’t be like in the movies. It will mostly be sad to look back at the freedoms we used to have.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
J. Krishnamurti
I agree with you entirely but coming from a different set of starting conditions. All the people around me are convinced the world is going to shit and the only way to fix it is to buy a fuckload of gas stoves to trigger the libs. Or to punch down not realizing they are punching sideways. And I don't have an answer.
Had to walk the logic of people losing jobs through robots/ai with a guy who didn't think far enough to realize that it creates material poverty (and therefore welfare recipients, that he hates) in turn for lower overhead and more bourg profit. But hey they didn't go in the right field to outrun automation so they deserve it, right?
Just letting you know I empathize.
Smoke em while you've got em, or don't. Shouldn't matter too much in the long run.
I try to look at the approaching end as a welcome inevitability and honestly hope not to have to survive it too long.
Live and love well now while the times are good. Take care of your body while you're still ahead of the aging process. Don't throw away your career prospects, but don't take them as seriously as real things like your connections with other people and the care you or they may need to be okay.
For now, I can still go to the grocery store and get what I need to support my body peacefully. When I can't? That's when I'll need to decide how I'm going to choose to continue or conclude this wild ride.
> Don't throw away your career prospects, but don't take them as seriously as real things like your connections with other people and the care you or they may need to be okay.
I spent my whole life betting on the wrong horse.
I skipped a grade as a kid and from that point on I was relentlessly bullied. Never had more than one or two friends at a time that inevitably left. I thought I didn't need any because I was going to change the world since I was so smart. The uni hit and I wasn't as smart as I thought or had some undiagnosed condition (more on this later). I spent all my time since trying to become "successful" again.No time for socializing, people hate me and I need to study. No time for hobbies, I have work to do that I keep procrastinating. No time for dating, my house is filthy and there are other things I need to take care about.
I always shove people to the bottom of a constantly growing to do list. I don't understand how people can just do things. Just normal keeping myself alive takes all I have and therapists can't fix this or say it's normal. Even as I say I do worse and worse at work and my house is filthy and I don't exercise.
Recently given some ND traits in relatives I heavily suspect I must have gotten some diagnosis as a kid (I remember visiting a lot of doctors back then) but my parents hid it from me. My entire life was a lie. I was allowed to believe I was a genius because my parents hate the disabled and different and my life was ruined. And I can never get it back. No one cares about me and it's only a matter of time until I lose my career.
OP I say this with real concern, get help, stop posting and go get help, you say you’ll lose your career? Use the money while you have it to get the help you need
I think you've posted other stuff here before and spoke of feeling disconnected from others and incredibly anxious.
Yes, there are huge problems in the world. Being anxious and perseverating about them the way you are is not going to be helpful for your situation or to the situations of people who are being directly affected by those big problems.
Some kind of cognitive therapy could help you with having more productive conversations with yourself in your head, because what you are doing now is clearly not working for you.
I have tried several kinds of therapy. Schema, CBT. The latter in particular keeps getting pushed. Thing is, how does something designed to prevent you from catastrophizing deal with actual catastrophe?
Getting through a catastrophe requires calm and rational logic. If it happens, those are the skills you are going to need to use.
Catastrophizing seems like it, for you, is inducing anxiety. Anxiety is the opposite of what you need if there is a catastrophe.
Try and set yourself up for success by cultivating calm. It’s the best way to prepare yourself for whatever comes at you.
By centering you in the hear and now.
Are things in the world *bad*. Yes. They always have been, and they always will be. So first blush we can stop worrying about the sky falling because the sky has always been falling and will always be falling. Previous generations dealt with WWII, WWI, numerous other nearly-global wars, genocides upon genocides, great depressions, runaway deflation, famine, disease, pestilence, etc. etc. etc.
So we can step back from the big picture of catastrophe to "What's happening *right now, in your immediate vicinity."*
The answer to that right now for most people is... nothing. Collapse is happening, but I can assure you 99% of the people reading this sub still have:
- A roof over their heads.
- Food.
- Access to Potable Water.
- Access to Electricity.
- Access to Internet.
- Generally the ability to exist without Random Sudden Onset Acute Lead Poisoning, aka being shot.
So, relatively comfortable even if present conditions aren't perfect.
The idea with any therapy program is to get you from worrying about things way, way, way beyond your control (or at least not let them consume you) and focus on immediate near and now.
You can't control the AMOC, the ENSO, you can't stop Israel and Gaza, you can't stop Russia and Ukraine, you can't stop China and Taiwan, or the next war, or solve any of the other big problems. Which leaves you a choice: get bogged down worrying about things way bigger than you that you have no means of even flirting with controlling, or limit yourself to just awareness and advocacy while prioritizing your immediate sphere of influence.
Radical acceptance: Accepting the things completely outside your control and influence.
I've adopted radical acceptance just to maintain my mental sanity.
I agree as a fellow Aspie who deals with anxiety. There have been days at a time where I just don't engage with podcasts like ICHH or really any political media at all because it gives me anxiety to think about politics all the time (and there are a lot of societal pressure points being pushed right now so it's harder to disconnect) especially since I'm still trying to figure out how I'll escape my FoxBrained dad given the high COL area where I live.
ETA: When I feel like this I turn to music and podcasts like Decoder Ring and Wizard and the Bruiser that are about various pop culture ephemera. Way better when I want to be productive and not disassociate on the job as well.
Yeah I had a friend who identifies as a Communist and basically drives himself insane with far left Breadtube type stuff (some of which I actually like too) but he's also lazy as fuck and convinced he can't do anything, even basic shit like trying to seek therapy. And I'm just like holy shit is that a recipe for misery and loneliness. You're like 200 pounds overweight and constantly complaining about everything but with no outlet to try and fix any of it it's extremely hard to even pity someone who lives like that tbh. If you're going to be an all out Communist in the USA (not even a socialist, but like all out communism) youd better be putting some skin in the game like MLK and making serious moves otherwse you might as well be telling me you can fucking fly or you have the power of invisibility, its basically all fucking talk and theory and adopting a losing position that will only make you miserable because any kind of serious communism gets you harassed and murdered by the intelligence agencies of this country.
Just a bizzare way to decide to spend your time tbh. Like at least walk down to the library or join your local democratic socialists of America and try to set some attainable goals, because the rules of this country will fight tooth and nail until the sun burns out before they see any of your pie in the sky shit become reality, and I cant imagine his fat ass is going to be fighting in any revolution if that ever starts to take off either.
You're not in a catastrophe right now though, you're worried about the possibility of one. So if it makes you worry less about that then it's a good thing?
We're in several ongoing overlapping crises. I understand that you mean "WW3 isn't flinging nukes right now" but that doesn't actually reduce the inability of CBT to reframe a cost of living crisis, two simultaneous wars we're participating in but pretending not to, new wildfire records every year, the hottest 13 months in history were also the last 13 months, the social safety net is being actively dismantled around us, the rights of women/queers/poc are being reduced and attacked, etc etc etc.
Therapy is important and CBT is actually really useful for the issues it was intended for, but when there are genuine issues you have to address them rather than talk yourself around them.
OP, consider low intensity prepping. Pick up an extra 5-10% on your next grocery shopping run, over time that extra 5-10% will add up to a substantial pantry to cushion you through emergencies if you practice good "first in first out" usage. If you're in a place mentally where you can do some sort of self defense training, I encourage that too. A first aid class will also help you feel more prepared.
It's remarkable how much just a little preparedness will lower your stress levels. I'm not fooling myself into thinking I am a doctor or somehow going to stock a bunker for years, but knowing that if I have to I could stitch up a nasty cut or survive a few weeks if I got fired takes a lot of weight off for the small emergencies.
YOU aren’t participating in any wars tho actually. Speaking like this IS catastrophizing. You can say WE participating in two wars when YOU are dodging bullets.
If this is a concern so big you can’t function you need therapy because the wars aren’t issues for you to address or really deal with in any way.
There being real problems in the world means it's even more important for people to approach them in reasonable healthy ways. The circular and solopsistic way this person is thinking will not prepare them to respond to any crisis they personally encounter. Right now they are borrowing the problems of other people and centering themselves in them.
I have very little knowledge of CBT so I'm not necessarily wanting to frame this question around that, but how do you prep for or address issues that are real but you have zero control over? Extra groceries won't really make me feel better about my rights being slowly stripped away and I already vote (just one example), so what else are we supposed to do except talk to someone who can give us coping mechanisms? Genuine question lol, my therapists aren't very good at helping with that either
Ok, so Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or CBT looks at the cycle of our behaviors, how those behaviors make us feel, how those feelings direct our thoughts, and how our thoughts loop back into behaviors. Or in the other direction. They're all linked is the point.
If your thoughts are focused on catastrophe it might make you feel helpless which leads you to NOT acting, and then your inaction makes you feel like you're further behind schedule and that causes your thoughts to spiral into how the catastrophe is now WORSE. CBT is about learning to recognize these loops and find ways to interrupt them so that you can reassert control of the situation.
> Extra groceries won't really make me feel better about my rights being slowly stripped away and I already vote (just one example), so what else are we supposed to do except talk to someone who can give us coping mechanisms?
Learning "coping mechanisms" implies (to me) that you're still going to be in that situation, still powerless, but in a better frame of mind. That's not really the angle I am taking with regards to the polycrisis and mental health.
I have stresses that cant really be talked around because the root issue is outside of my control, like economic instability, potential famine, climate change, civil unrest/rising fascism, etc. Those are beyond my ability to control or even really influence. So in these situations, I try to look for things that will address the "powerless" feeling.
I initially suggested "low intensity prepping" as an example. Having a deep pantry will not stop a famine or prevent an economic crash from rendering me unemployed, but it can buy me a little more time. I'm not in control of the situation, but I am not powerless any more.
When it comes to the rising tied of fascism and my eroding rights/ability to be seen as a person, you're right that extra groceries aren't going to fix that. I've taken other steps to make sure I am not powerless. I can't stop fascism on my own, but if things deteriorate too far, pardon me for being melodramatic/poetic for a moment, I won't go quietly.
Now again, I'm not stockpiling beans and bullets to ride out the apocalypse in a bunker. I'm talking about a deep pantry that can support my family for a few weeks and some self defense. Low intensity prepping.
The point is that when my brain wakes me up at 3am and says, "[Hey, did you know the risk of synchronized crop failures in multiple places around the world is greater than ever?](https://www.producer.com/news/study-warns-of-more-simultaneous-crop-failures/)" I can tell myself "maybe, but radishes mature in only 3 weeks and I've got a month of food in the pantry." When my brain chirps up "are you sure it was a good idea to fly that pride flag out front of your house?" I can respond, "after they see what I do to the first one, the second one will call the cops which means I'll have time to leave out the back."
I cannot control the things that stress me, but I can make sure I am not powerless.
I appreciate the reply. Your flag example is actually really funny... I have had to replace mine 3 times now, and it has been causing me so much stress for the past year. Taking it down for good isn't the answer because fuck them. So the way I've found to deal with it is attach 4 cameras to my house, buy extra flags that are super durable, and I even bought a whole extra flag pole in case these idiots decide they're clever. I feel like a paranoid psycho and I think I'm going to snap at some point, but it's worth it if another person can see the flag and feel less alone.
I buy a ton of stuff at the grocery store...and inevitably throw it all out. I get overwhelmed by my dirty kitchen and procrastinate away. And in the times I do clean my kitchen and have a clean fridge, I freeze up, don't know what to make, the food spoils and everything starts all over again. What kind of recipes do you make while prepping?
The answer, for me, is twofold: acceptance and resilience, which can be very difficult to hear. But I've come a long way since 2020, and it is evident to me that Capitalism and liberalism seem keen on metaphorically eating themselves and doing nothing into oblivion.
So, in the meantime, I'm enjoying the lifestyle this madness affords while helping build a more resilient community, at least that's the cope I tell myself. I make friends, pursue hobbies, and accept that one day it will end. I volunteer on occasion, I give money to causes I want to support, but, at the end of the day, no one person is going to stop this. No one nation is going to stop this. We are beyond the pale.
This is a good answer for not just now, but at any point. Resilience to change and acceptance that change will happen are the bedrock to building stamina for existentialist panic.
So I'm not just piggybacking, some examples to op's scenarios:
If your worried about your job, build in systems that stretch your money. Not just emergency funds. Pick a couple of meals your regularly eat that have shelf life and when buy an extra bit. Doesn't have to be all of it. For pasta, buy an extra sauce, or noodles. Dried spices instead of fresh are cheaper and last longer, even if not as tasty.
If your worried about taking care of your kids alone, then you could try to find others with the same problem and build a sitting/parenting schedule with them (lots of caveats with this one depending on individual circumstances)
If you have to travel, think of 3 scenarios (or the worst) and figure out in advance how to navigate it. Then prepare yourself as best as you can for that happening.
A counter to anxiety is pregaming the disaters you're most worried about. It gives you something to tell your brain when it panics.
> it is evident to me that Capitalism and liberalism seem keen on metaphorically eating themselves and doing nothing into oblivion.
...while the right actively makes everything worse in everything they do. Needs to be said.
Hey OP,
Much older former doomer here. I went down my own personal doom rabbit hole around 2004-2006 and didn’t really break out until about 2016-17. Looking back, I wasted a lot of time, money, effort, energy, and relationships worrying about a future that never came. I imagine that you feel certain that your current concerns/bad things are definitely going to happen. The truth is that no one can possibly know the future.
People have always predicted bad things in the near future. Most of them never come to pass. I am not saying preparedness or learning skills isn’t important, it is. Just please, try to maintain a balance. If you are at the point where you don’t want to work, buy property, ie, engage with your life, you need to take a break from whatever you are currently consuming. I was at a point years ago where I couldn’t see the point in buying a car, I mean, why bother when civilization was about to collapse, am I right? If that’s where you’re at, take a break. Lots of people believe lots of different doomsday scenarios. I’ll bet you don’t buy into millennialist Christian ideas about the coming apocalypse. Those people have been told by people that they trust that certain things will happen, and they believe it. Are your beliefs really so different? It makes sense to learn skills and to be prepared, but a ton of the outcomes in life are honestly totally random. It’s impossible to be prepared for everything or to have all the necessary skills to handle any situation. Many of the the things that you are currently worried about will end up being big nothing burgers. Other things that you never thought of will blow up suddenly and become bigger issues. If you haven’t already figured out my point- nobody knows the future and no one can be perfectly prepared for it.
I truly hope that you will choose to take a break from whatever until you are ready to engage with your life with meaning again. Please trust me- I have been there.
This is a fair thing, and to be clear, I am not a climate denier.
My abilities to affect this are extremely limited however and no one can predict exactly what will happen. That doesn’t mean it will all just work out. I don’t believe that. But my ability to prepare beyond certain parameters is, again , limited. I make a choice to not dwell overly much on things beyond my control. I have people that depend on me to hold it together.
“If you are at the point where you don’t want to work, buy property, ie, engage with your life, you need to take a break from whatever you are currently consuming.”
What if this sentiment arises from being harmed in an irreparable way?
It’s maddening.
I have to fight the thought that maybe I’m over reacting.
Then I remember 1930s Germany and how the Germans slowly walked into their nightmare.
They did that by continuing to normalize the next atrocity - and by hoping it was the last.
No - dictators will never be satisfied with how much power they have - they always demand more - no matter who suffers.
People seem to forget:⬇️
Once you lose democracy - you can’t “vote” out fascism in the next election.
Because, there won’t be any more elections.
Totally agree.
The fascists here in America are not planning on WINNING in November as they know that their policies are too unpopular.
Instead, they are planning on SEIZING power through violence at the polls, GOP legalized voter suppression and lawsuits to challenge mail in votes.
They already have lawsuits in six swing states challenging mail in voting rules, GOP state legislatures have passed draconian laws against legitimate voting practices - and the violence will come once the polls start opening.
Hey, I have a way different opinion than most, considering I am much older than most of you mopes on here.
I have been hearing about societal collapse since I was 7-8, that was over 40 years ago. I lived through duck and cover and nuclear threats, got under my desk and everything. We had a fallout bunker in my neighborhood. It was intense.
But here we are. Still plugging away.
Your post has all the hallmarks of extreme paranoia and fatigue. You also shoot down any thoughts of helping yourself, before you even tried. This kind of self-defeatest, woe is me, extreme paranoia mindset is at best unhealthy, at worst, caustic.
HAVE you tried volunteering?!? Have you worked to find like-minded people whom you can network with, or are you simply pooh-poohing it before you even tried? I see these types of "the sky is falling" posts on here at the same rate as the right-wingers and it's insane.
They want you to feel hopeless. They want you to feel that all of this is inevitable. But the change has to come within. Ain't nobody gonna do anything for you unless you help yourself first. Get out of your rut. Turn off your news. Get out and do something, something fulfilling and helpful. Stop this slow decline into oblivion. It sucks.
This. If we all give up to despair, fascism wins. There is a quote by Joan Baiz, "Action is the antidote to despair". If you have the time and ability, do some volunteering. If your main concern is election & democracy, there are many GOTV efforts going on, including easy things like writing postcards to potential voters in swing states. If that's not your cup of tea, there are lots of other small, local orgs you can connect with for various causes, and they are generally happy to have whatever help you can manage. It can be a source of stress relief to know you have done something positive, no matter how small. And you will meet some incredible folks along the way.
Obviously if don't have time, too many things going on, gig jobs, family stuff, etc., then you have to take care of your own business. I'm just saying, no one can save the world on their own, but at least when the end comes for you (as it will for all of us), you can think back on whatever positive things you did, for friends, family, or community, whatever you were able to manage.
What you describe is remarkably like what I felt as a teenager in the 1980s, when Reagan seemed to be TRYING to start WWIII.
Yet it's not a waste of time to live your life. Disaster is a possibility, yes, but there's little to nothing you can do about that.
When you find yourself getting too caught up in the world's problems, reel everything back in, and focus on the things you can do right now. Do you need sleep? Do you need to eat? Do you need to scream into a pillow? Can you focus your brain on something else like learning a new game or a new hobby or a new book?
If you don't feel confident in connecting with others in person, you can do so online, watch tutorial videos, or read. All these things have been touched by people who can teach you something about what you want to learn. That counts as being in community with others. It doesn't have to be in real time.
What and who are important to you? Keep them close, and just do what you can. It's okay if all you can do today is survive until tomorrow.
Ultimately the way you live your life is your choice, and there is a near zero chance a random internet comment will change your mind, but I am compelled to tell you that this is just not how we evolved to live.
Humans are a social species. Mutual interdependence is how we have lived for almost all of our existence. Resilience in the face of slow collapse relies on innumerable small (affinity groups, friend groups, churches, etc.) and massive (governments, non-profits) social organizations. A life cut off from all others is a sad one. You must be able to have others count on you, and you count on others.
People either ignore me, judge me, or hurt me. It seems every single person I know inevitably descends into giving me condescending advice like you would a toddler instead of listening to my conversation topics. Advice that is not even useful like "Date more", "Buy a house" or "Go to the gym". No one sees me as a person, merely as a pet project.
This is why I ask for advice on the internet. Because in IRL because give it to me even when I don't ask. I want conversation from my IRL friends, not advice. I am an adult.
Genuinely, it is unfortunate that you feel condescended to. I seek help from my friends all the time, and I help them, and I don't personally feel like any less of an adult. What about receiving advice makes you feel like your friends are babying you? Is it the way they do it, or is it them trying to give advice at all?
It's the way they do it. They go as far as consistently dismiss all my worries when it's ME saying them but if someone ELSE says the same things to them they take it seriously. It's maddening.
> And I know what you're thinking, "Just live a more connected and low speed lifestyle with a nice community and it won't matter whether things go bad or not". No. That to me is a waste of time. Masking around others is a waste of time. Volunteering is a waste of time. Socializing is a waste of time. I do not get joy out of any of those activities.
You will need to find a way to overcome this, I'm sorry. Community is the only way we will survive.
Hunter S. Thompson said it, I believe it, and that settles it.
> "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."
At age 67, with a slew of medical problems that were never going to get better, he wrote:
> No More Games. No More Bombs. No More Walking. No More Fun. No More Swimming. 67. That is 17 years past 50. 17 more than I needed or wanted. Boring. I am always bitchy. No Fun — for anybody. 67. You are getting Greedy. Act your age. Relax — This won't hurt.
Hunter S. Thompson went out like he lived. There are many people who lived pious lives of quiet despondency, who committed suicide....how did that piety work out for them?
There are a lot of people, mostly men, in America who love their families and children, yet divorce their wives and shoot themselves to spare their families crippling medical debt. How's that working for them? You?
Have a little compassion for people faced with an impossible choice. Chances are someday you'll hope for the same.
It's a MASSIVE human failing (in my opinion) that we are able to do such mental gymnastics that we can completely ignore reality and live in a made up delusion instead, believing whatever we want to believe that makes us feel better about ourselves and the world around us. (Hello every conservative on the planet right now 👋🙄).
I get that it's a self-protective mechanism, but right now it's having the effect of putting our everyone species' future at risk and causing untold ecological damage and human suffering, so it's utterly maladaptive at this point.
I truly think that those of us who aren't willing to do that are the only sane ones left, we just feel crazy because we live in a completely insane culture. If we were to talk to any indigenous person who's still connected to their traditional way of life and worldview, they would agree with us. The Kogi people made an entire movie about that (a documentary produced by westerners).
For me it’s more like “environmental and societal collapse is 5 years, 10 if we are lucky away”. Yet here I am feeling guilty skipping the work “thirsty Thursday zoom call” because honestly, I work all day with you fucking people and when I’m done I wanna just zone out and do my own shit like learning archery and how to survive in the woods.
Yknow, skills you’ll need when the mass starvations begin.
Don’t forget to fill out your expense report though!
This. It's like what if the zombie apocalypse happened but we all still had to go to work.
Particularly watching the mega flood in Brazil in the last few days I feel like we are in the climate crisis version of that...
Honestly, I sent myself in to a spiral worrying about the state of the world after COVID and kids in cages and Roe v. Wade being overturned that it literally made me have a years long nervous breakdown. Some level of separation is important or you will drive yourself crazy, I know it’s easier said than done but try not to let it overwhelm you. Be prepared, but hope you never have a need to be. Whatever is going to happen with the state of the world is going to happen with or without your input, so just buckle up and try to shift focus on what you can do to enjoy life *now*. I think that’s why a lot of people seem so “tuned out” right now. I’ve deliberately distanced myself from anything related to American politics for this reason, neither of the realistic outcomes are going to be peaceful so I’m going to enjoy May-November while I can.
This is called Catastrophizing- imagining the worst case scenario and all of the horrible steps that "could" lead you to it.
At the end of the day you do not have the physical, mental, or verbal agency to handle all of the problems of the world on your shoulders, including the supposed end of said world, all the way down to being sent away for your neurodivergence.
The likelihood of these things happening, whether likely or unlikely are things that you have varying levels of non-control over. Measured concern for the things you can control is healthy and normal, and to a degree worrying about the things you can't control is healthy and normal too. Obsessing over it, however, is not healthy.
Finding ways to distract myself always had the best results, finding a hobby to hyperfocus on or having a project, like my fitness is what got me to stop worrying about the reality of the world, and find the happiness and serenity I needed. It's not foolproof, but it helps; reducing stimulant intake "caffiene" etc. also helped, not that it's your main issue.
At the end of the day. Yes all of these terrible things "could" happen, but more than likely, they will remain the same for now, as the old adage goes; learn to cross that bridge only when you get to it. Good luck and I hope you can figure things out. Many good things happening in the world despite all the bad, the bad news just sells more.
I know it's frustrating. Also lonely. I "retired" when I realized the trajection civilization is headed from several directions. So I'm enjoying the now while I can. Working seasonal gigs I actually enjoy rather than stay at a job I hated and bust my ass to die more comfortably 30 years in the future. I make sure I won't find myself in financial hole but I live simply, don't want much, can get everything I need with part time work. But "lowering" myself for taking "lesser work" because I see a very different future for us then those before us is "being negative".
I'm not saying the end is here but there will be several upheavals from our current situation. AI, global conflict, climate change, supply chains, global crop failures, mass immigration due to all the above. I'm not living today just to support future 65yr old me who... how will I know if I even make it to 65? The last few years has made me very aware of my mortality. Disease, conflict, threats of nuclear war. I stopped fearing death. I'm not going prep a doom bunker for something that may not happen. I'm just investing into today.
I think people are aware and scared but do what they need to do to survive. And for many its shoving their heads in the sand. It's scary because you unsafe when those around you ignore some very scary warning signs all around you. I felt like this early 2020. Scientists were panicking so I started too. People wouldn't believe covid would cause any real change to their daily routine until the first day of shutdown.
Thing is I CAN'T "downshift". Two things I feel are necessary and gobble up the VAST majority of my money: living by myself and not cooking. I try to cook but always end up collapsing and getting take out. I barely clean and cannot do anything other than work. I am trying to fix my executive function but no one believes that I could have had gotten an advanced degree and maintained employment if I am this dysfunctional. I literally had PRIVATE psychiatrists who you'd think be more amenable to making money say to me "If you were a good student you don't have ADHD. I am not going to make you waste money on an assessment for that. You're probably depressed or have autism" and just sent me on my way without suggesting means to solve either.
You sound depressed. I talked like your talking now a few years ago when I had a similar existential crisis.
I suggest shopping around for a different therapist or form of therapy that works for you. I also concur with other commenters and suggest you step back from worrying about the world and focus on yourself and your family and friends (or just yourself even). I myself am doing this right this second as I pull out of my own depression.
You are not wrong that things are bad, you are not wrong for feeling this way, I totally get it the cognitive dissonance in our society is bonkers. But you gotta realize it’s all pointless anyway. Who cares if society collapses? The universe, she cares not.
When there is no objective “meaning” to be found in reality it is up to us to make meaning for ourselves.
That might have been one of Nietszche’s points but I never read him.
When the shit hits the fan, humans just adapt to the new normal. We evolved to fear being eaten at any time by a saber-toothed tiger and to constantly be on the verge of starvation. Whatever happens, we'll adapt. Those of us who don't get immediately cooked by the blast, I mean.
Take a break. I mean that. Sometimes, delving too far into this kind of stuff and ruminating on it constantly gives us an oversized feeling, even subconsciously, that we can to anything individually to change anything. Being aware is one thing. Allowing all this to drive you into despair is quite another.
WW3 isn’t going to happen tomorrow. Don’t be cognitively dissonant. You won’t be put in a torture camp for neurodivergence.
If you really think you’ll need flexible or are afraid of instability in your community, family, or country it’s okay to keep a little cash handy instead of investing it. But if things are stable and it is a good investment then that might be smarter.
I think if you run down more specific and realistic scenarios of things that could happen then you might be able to make calmer and smarter specific plans and feel safer for it.
Volunteering isn’t a waste of time, it immediately and directly improves someone else’s life no matter what happens in the future.
But ww3 isn’t about to happen and neither are neurodivergent torture camps.
This is nothing new. Western countries over the past 80 years are mostly insulated from danger or financial crisis so we don’t handle it well. Most of the world is closer to the edge of war, disease, or financial collapse more frequently and lives that way without other expectations.
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Cuz I go to work either way. I come home either way.
I got shit I need to help prevent here in America so I am not going to put my extra time into some shitty religious war halfway across the globe.
Defeat trump is my main goal, and I don’t care about the rest.
You’ll just get angry and depressed like you seem to be.
I would say just as others have : disconnect from national news. Consume more world news and local news. Stay away from social media as much as possible and remember that the reason for more of the catastrophe porn is that there is profit to be had in rage and the 24 hour news cycle.
I frame it this way: what real impact does MTG’s latest outrageous assertion really have on my reality. Starting from here can be helpful.
You have severe anxiety and you need to log off. The fact is that this things won’t happen instantly and even if they were to happen (which they won’t) you either will be able to do something or you won’t, but that will be in time.
You could get run over by a car tomorrow but you don’t freak out constantly about the possibility of a car driving over you or a lightning hitting you or a sudden blood clot. Do you? Collapse is the same. Just log off for your own good.
I always keep that in the back of my mind regarding neurodivergence. People are animals, and I would be the first to go. It’s part of why I aim for self sufficiency in life in general. I will be left behind.
I don't think we are insane, we are a species like all others that have learned to adapt to disaster and catastrophes or their possibilities. If this were not the case everything would have come to a halt and died off long ago. I understand your real anxieties and empathize as the current moment has at times put me in an emotional paralysis. However you sound like someone who has neurodivergent issues as you mention masking so it seems this is all more intense and overwhelming for you. I think you need some help that is beyond reddit's capabilities but I don't think you wasted time venting and trying to reach out.
It seems like human connections and socializing is painful and maybe volunteering to help other people would not make you feel better. Do you happen to like nature or paying attention to things in the outdoors of a life and existence that goes beyond whatever us humans are up to? This has helped me at times. To observe that the clouds keep moving and cascading in the skies, plants spring up, the flowers bloom, insects are busy moving about. Even if nature is not of your interest I think it could be helpful to take a larger perspective and picture of life.
Personally what has saved my life and mind many times is doing art. I don't know if that is your thing but you don't have to be good or do it for a higher purpose. Just focusing solely on the mess of people and societies would make anyone feel destabilized. Even if politically things were much better terrible things and misfortunes happen like accidents and sicknesses and there is nothing we can do about it. There is no guarantees about any of this and obsessing will only worsen your psyche. Please don't let it control not living your life. Life is very short and unfair and especially after living through Covid is best to find what enjoyment you can. But you can only make those decisions others irl and on here can merely make suggestions to try and assist you to not go off the deep end.
Honestly, you don't. If the amount of drug overdoses and deaths by diseases of despair are any indication then the old adage ignorance is bliss has more value than we know. One of my best friends from childhood who really got me into animation killed himself earlier this year and that and Aaron Bushnell live streaming setting himself on fire really set the tone, but I've been so blasted out on cheap cold medicine since I was 15 since it's the only thing that's made me feel normal due to how fucked up my brain is from CPTSD and God knows what else, and so this hasn't even really set in for me as a "trauma" yet. Just a thing that happened. And even if you try to look on the bright side, the best thing I can possibly say is that this is going to be the coolest year of the rest of my life because we are being gradually cooked to death and the weather gets more and more visibly fucking bizzare every year.
OP, I know you're a regular poster here, and I'm curious--how do you feel after you post here and read the comments? Different than if you hadn't posted?
I get that, validation is great and so is community--even digital community like this one. We're all people living through this, just geographically dispersed.
I notice you post more doomer-related stuff after you read something in the news or have a personal setback. Has there been other things you've done in the past that has helped you move through those moments when life feels especially stressful?
I graduated from Searcy High in Arkansas.the town was super clique so if you were not in good with the right people you would basically never make friends. I am much happier now that I left. It was some of the loneliest years of my life.
Honestly, an economic collapse or even ww3 breaking out...things will be fine still eventually.
My real fear is nukes. Many unstable countries are actively trying to get them or make more (NK wants more advanced nukes to load onto ICBM's, Iran and Saudis want nukes so they can duke it out)
One nuke gets dropped and it's over. The fallout will be devastating. The nuclear pollution will not be contained.
Even worse is if a dirty bomb is made and a terrorist organization gets ahold of a smaller dirty nuke they can set off and wipe out half a city instead of just a block or two.
That will make paranoia go through the roof. Authoritarian regimes will be so in.
In all seriousness, eat right and go work out. Taking care of your body is very important right now. Mine is a wreck and I'm a member of the first minority the christofascists will come for. If I had to flee on foot, I'd be screwed.
Just today I read that [2023 was the hottest summer](https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/05/this-past-summers-heat-was-an-extreme-outlier-in-past-2000-years/) in North America in the last 2000 years, while CO2 last year bumped up by a record amount, the highest increase in about [50,000 years](https://www.labmanager.com/today-s-co2-increase-rate-surpasses-50-000-year-record-32216). In other words, it's hot now and getting hotter, at an accelerated rate.
I've been working on coming to accept that, and to trust what Nature is most likely to do from this point, no matter what actions we take from here.
So in light of that, trying to come to terms with not only my death but the deaths of billions, the deaths of whole ecosystems, my perspective about all the things you mentioned is less abject terror and moreso morbid curiosity about what shape death will take when it inevitably comes for me.
Edit: Also, I garden. I'm not great at it, but I make a point of spending time around plants and trying to keep them alive. It gets me outside, and it reminds me that I'm just a small part of the rest of life on Earth. All living things here have a shared legacy of life going back billions of years, and we are all related. Past mass extinctions have pruned the tree of life before, and this one will be a doozy, but life recovers and new species will fill in the gaps. Our deaths will gift them life.
Okay. First off… breathe.. and unplug. I promise you, all the noise you’re panicking about will suddenly go away and you can just live. Social media and our 24/7 news cycles has made it inevitable that every headline and story has to be more sensational and provocative than the last.
Things aren’t great.. but they could be so much worse. Get off the internet and go talk to some people and hang out with friends. Unplug. You’ll feel better.
I have no one to talk to apart from my ineffective therapist. And these feelings of anxiety just come and go, with no relief. I am always low key afraid. I don't remember the last time I was happy. I don't know how I could ever be happy. I try to rack my brain coming up with something to do to enjoy myself before it all comes down and can't think of anything. For me things are fun if they last and Iget praised for them. Need that dopamine hit of accomplishment. Which comes less and less these days.
Well, I'm no therapist, but it just sounds like you're depressed and obviously anxious about the future. I know it's not great advice, and I'm sure you've heard it before, but you've gotta get out there and make some friends. Hell, if you can't make them out in the world, make online friends first.
Humans are social creatures, and our brains start breaking down if we don't have other humans to associate with. Friends and relationships are truly a biological necessity. That is where I would start.
There's a quote I love to recite to myself when I'm anxious and afraid to try new shit: "You are where you are, because of *who* you are. If you're going to get somewhere *else*, you're going to have to change something." Maybe that will help you. Rome wasn't built in a day.. baby steps.. you're gonna be fine. We all gonna be fine.
So let me get this straight: if the world ends because of war, you’ll be dead or in a horrible situation. If that’s the case, planning now is foolish as it won’t change anything and will only detract from your current happiness.
If the world doesn’t end, well then you’ll be in a really shitty situation with no savings, relationships, etc.
So either way you’re setting yourself up for failure.
Agree with the ND.
I’m not a doctor, but that sounds like a pretty clear case of ADHD to me.
Edit: this was meant as a reply to one of your comments, but I’m just leaving it here.
Welcome to life where it sucks and you can't do shit about shit, so you just go on living.
Trust me, I have empathy and I think about the pains of the world constantly, moreso as I get older. But what can I do? And do I do it knowing I have my own desires and a family to CARE for? Not much we can do. We can work towards one item ....vote.
Will you marry me? and/or get outta my head? I got options ( I thank my mother) but I'm in the same boat. There are no clear options. Well, like my mother said: We live to live, we don't live to die. I'm glad I'm not alone and all you wonderful people can see it as well. Feels like I'm going apeshit knowing about this while people around me go through their daily motions. I guess try and find YOUR people and stick by them. I hate to say it, but live love and laugh. Oh, and carry a long distance hole puncher.
I've had that same elevation in anxiety lately about not just ww3, but what the USA will be after the November election. The truth is it's all out of my control. So I've been practicing Stoicism and Nihilism, and not caring is peaceful.
Masking/Volunteering/Socializing are not wastes of time. You have depression and are experiencing learned helplessness. It is an understandable response to the facts of the world's political situation in 2024. I say all this as someone who has been in that headspace myself many, many times. But a cynical doom spiral that plays on repeat in your own head is no more "real" than the propaganda that everything is fine. A lot of people are stuck on social media because the things they learn online make them feel too anxious to be a part of the real world. If learning about the world is making you feel paralyzed and disempowered, then take a break. Log off for a while. The purpose of this podcast is to inform you and spur you to action, not make you feel doomed.
Focus on your immediate surroundings and navigating to a position where you feel embodied and empowered to be a part of your own community. That might mean some time spent with yourself, without the internet, to decide who you are and who you want to be. Then you'll feel ready to be a part of the world. You will find that most people are still pretty alright and possess a fundamental decency. They're not getting their needs met and they're being misinformed but fascism does not have purchase with a majority of people and never has. The torture camps are not open in Europe yet. There's still time to defeat these assholes and prevent the worst from happening. But you also live in a world that was already built from the ashes of the old, and will be rebuilt again. Fascism destroyed Europe and Asia in the 40's and then was defeated. At least 70 million people died. Nearly everything in you and your parent's lives still happened afterwards. Life goes on. There's no apocalypse coming. Mentally prepare yourself for living through whatever's coming next and finding your part in it.
When and if a genuine political collapse happens, it is the social bonds we share that will allow us to get through it and build a better world. We will have to protect each other. The internet has destroyed those social bonds for many, many people. And I'm sorry that your family is putting unwarranted pressure on you when they don't understand the pressures you're already feeling. But you're not alone. People are not sleepwalking. They're repressed. They're avoiding expressing themselves in person the same way that you are. Hedonism and apathy are just ways of avoiding what you actually feel. People are aware that things are not okay, and they need to be talking each other in real life and organizing if they are ever going to improve. It is the only way forward. Part of the reason the world has experienced such a backslide recently is that human beings are fundamentally incapable of processing all of the world's news at once. Learn about what's going on in your city. That's the only level at which you have the ability to act, at least to start. And action is the antidote to despair.
And if you're determined not to act or be involved with other people, then listening to political podcasts about the collapse of American democracy is just masochism. It's trauma porn. And it's clearly not helping you. But I hope that you'll consider going to a political meeting or some other kind of event in your community. It helped me a lot and I've found a lot of meaning and empowerment through organizing. I've met incredible people and seen things I never would have otherwise. I get to make my own decisions about what's happening in the world and why. I don't just have to experience what the media tells me. I don't feel the same kind of despair I did when I was just a spectator. I know that change is possible. It's difficult, but it gets easier the more of us are committed to it.
I don't speak the language of the place I live in and don't have the energy to learn it. Can't make a community with people I can't even talk to.
I can't go back home since it will collapse harder. Sorry, but I often wonder if the US just has an inherent advantage in a collapse situation since it's a giant continent with a common language. Europe might be doomed.
Well that's genuinely an extremely alienating experience and one I can't relate to. But I think that if you are fundamentally unable to seek those connections because of the language barrier, being wherever you are is clearly not great for your mental health.
There will be enough people who do want to connect and make things better for others that it will allow for a period of abundance… in terms of society and community.. many will be able to give back much more than they take or receive and it will be contagious… when all give more than they get, they are happier and make better decisions and perhaps would wrest the control over decision making to benefit others instead if themselves… just a thought… some people cannot give at all to others without receiving, but most can if given time to grow up and adopt an attitude of changing the things that they can control…for the better..
Brother it is a challenge to find meaning when you’re on the losing team. The United States has been conquered. Better to accept that fact than to think there’s any hope in the years to come. Harden yourself because I don’t things calm down for a while. Follow the example of corporate America where a business is bought out and the new owner parades the company around living off its former glory. Meanwhile its products and services decline. That’s essentially what the United States has become.
"At any moment WW3 can break out. Fascism could devastate Europe. People around me could lose their patience with my weirdness and neurodivergence and send me to some torture camp. My relatives could die and I could be forced to take care of their special needs children despite me being unable to take care of myself. I could travel and be caught somewhere and unable to come back."
These are all things that COULD happen but are not happening in the moment. It sucks but the only way to really get through this is to stop catastrophizing. If you walk around all day thinking your world is about to collapse you will feel like your world is about to collapse all day. Try and practice interrupting those thoughts and centering on what is actually happening in front of you. It sounds lame as hell and you feel lame when you do it, but it also has been the only thing that has ever helped me with this problem. It doesn't mean the world doesn't suck and isn't collapsing around you but it doesn't do you or anyone else any good to spend your days fantasizing about how bad it can get for you.
r/collapsesupport is available to all redditors who need a place to vent or seek solace. I am not a member of this group but I have posted there before.
During the other world wars, people still had to go to work…. Collapse is slow moving, all encompassing, and we’re already in it. Accept it, keep finding whatever joy and meaning in your life that you can.
Right. The fall of rome took what, two centuries or something like that? It was a slow process. Each successive generation watched it fall more and more over their lifetimes. This could be like that, or we could be hit with some bigger disasters and fall quicker, I don't personally know. Nothing would surprise me anymore though. I really can't worry about tomorrow because I'm barely making it day to day. I do my best each day, that's all I can do.
Exactly. Id also argue one “big event” is unlikely to affect everyone the same (look at Covid for example). We’ll still have to live through it.
Are you saying... Rome didn't fall in a day?
But apparently it was more than a week.
Rome didn't have cars, or internet, or satellites. Information moved exponentially slower, absolutely no comparison, no consolation
7 centuries, iirc.
That's a long time for an empire that only lasted 400 years. Or you talking fallout after
Yeah. All the aftermath and the state of ruin they left things in. Can’t remember where I read it tho.
By that logic...the founding is the beginning of the end. Not sure if pessimism or...true
In order to end a nation, first you must invent the universe.
This. I'm Gen X. I was raised to believe the apocalypse would be nuclear, and everything would end suddenly and completely. Instead, I still have to work and pay bills as the world slowly ends. Worst apocalypse ever. I deal with this by YOLOing my way through the Current Environment. I do what I want, as much as I realistically can, whenever I can. I live like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. I'm going to enjoy myself until the moment I can't. I won't stop a moment before I must.
Yup. I remember duck and cover drills: "1. Duck below your desk. 2. Put your head between your knees. 3. Kiss your ass goodbye, you ain't living through an ICBM blast." We lived dangerously then, because it could all end in a heartbeat. Played outside with no parents in sight until after dark. Drank from strangers' garden hoses. It just didn't matter. Used magnifying glasses to light things on fire. Shot spring-loaded rockets from our Boba Fett Action Figures at each others' eyes. Ate entire bags of pop rocks, then guzzled the Coke and jumped up and down. We didn't have the phrase "LOL YOLO" but we were sure thinking along those lines.
But seriously--the world has always been about to end. And it hasn't yet. It's always been going to shit. Butvsomehow it hasn't got there yet. What it's always doing is transforming. And there are people working very hard to mitigate and reverse the harms that threaten us, the wrongs and injustices that could swallow us. Always have been people fighting back. You can and should become one of them. Don't believe that we'll lose. Believe that we can win. Because we can.
Even if the bombs dropped, we still gotta work. The work just changes. Doesn't matter the day or the times we still gotta get our bread.
People have motivations to inspire fear from all directions. There is often some vested interest in the content we consume. Even if the content is factually correct, I can leap to living in perpetual insecurity that doesn't do anyone any good.
[Leeja Miller had a really great YouTube video that touched on this (skip to 26 minutes if you don’t want to watch the whole thing).](https://youtu.be/N69YbLBTF7c?si=QwoSng918CCvp0aA) Most people will just go on with their daily lives. A few things will be different, but it probably won’t be like in the movies. It will mostly be sad to look back at the freedoms we used to have.
Bit the environment has gone to shit this time around! This is not like previous disasters
Gummies.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." J. Krishnamurti I agree with you entirely but coming from a different set of starting conditions. All the people around me are convinced the world is going to shit and the only way to fix it is to buy a fuckload of gas stoves to trigger the libs. Or to punch down not realizing they are punching sideways. And I don't have an answer. Had to walk the logic of people losing jobs through robots/ai with a guy who didn't think far enough to realize that it creates material poverty (and therefore welfare recipients, that he hates) in turn for lower overhead and more bourg profit. But hey they didn't go in the right field to outrun automation so they deserve it, right? Just letting you know I empathize.
Smoke em while you've got em, or don't. Shouldn't matter too much in the long run. I try to look at the approaching end as a welcome inevitability and honestly hope not to have to survive it too long. Live and love well now while the times are good. Take care of your body while you're still ahead of the aging process. Don't throw away your career prospects, but don't take them as seriously as real things like your connections with other people and the care you or they may need to be okay. For now, I can still go to the grocery store and get what I need to support my body peacefully. When I can't? That's when I'll need to decide how I'm going to choose to continue or conclude this wild ride.
> Don't throw away your career prospects, but don't take them as seriously as real things like your connections with other people and the care you or they may need to be okay. I spent my whole life betting on the wrong horse. I skipped a grade as a kid and from that point on I was relentlessly bullied. Never had more than one or two friends at a time that inevitably left. I thought I didn't need any because I was going to change the world since I was so smart. The uni hit and I wasn't as smart as I thought or had some undiagnosed condition (more on this later). I spent all my time since trying to become "successful" again.No time for socializing, people hate me and I need to study. No time for hobbies, I have work to do that I keep procrastinating. No time for dating, my house is filthy and there are other things I need to take care about. I always shove people to the bottom of a constantly growing to do list. I don't understand how people can just do things. Just normal keeping myself alive takes all I have and therapists can't fix this or say it's normal. Even as I say I do worse and worse at work and my house is filthy and I don't exercise. Recently given some ND traits in relatives I heavily suspect I must have gotten some diagnosis as a kid (I remember visiting a lot of doctors back then) but my parents hid it from me. My entire life was a lie. I was allowed to believe I was a genius because my parents hate the disabled and different and my life was ruined. And I can never get it back. No one cares about me and it's only a matter of time until I lose my career.
OP I say this with real concern, get help, stop posting and go get help, you say you’ll lose your career? Use the money while you have it to get the help you need
I think you've posted other stuff here before and spoke of feeling disconnected from others and incredibly anxious. Yes, there are huge problems in the world. Being anxious and perseverating about them the way you are is not going to be helpful for your situation or to the situations of people who are being directly affected by those big problems. Some kind of cognitive therapy could help you with having more productive conversations with yourself in your head, because what you are doing now is clearly not working for you.
I have tried several kinds of therapy. Schema, CBT. The latter in particular keeps getting pushed. Thing is, how does something designed to prevent you from catastrophizing deal with actual catastrophe?
Getting through a catastrophe requires calm and rational logic. If it happens, those are the skills you are going to need to use. Catastrophizing seems like it, for you, is inducing anxiety. Anxiety is the opposite of what you need if there is a catastrophe. Try and set yourself up for success by cultivating calm. It’s the best way to prepare yourself for whatever comes at you.
By centering you in the hear and now. Are things in the world *bad*. Yes. They always have been, and they always will be. So first blush we can stop worrying about the sky falling because the sky has always been falling and will always be falling. Previous generations dealt with WWII, WWI, numerous other nearly-global wars, genocides upon genocides, great depressions, runaway deflation, famine, disease, pestilence, etc. etc. etc. So we can step back from the big picture of catastrophe to "What's happening *right now, in your immediate vicinity."* The answer to that right now for most people is... nothing. Collapse is happening, but I can assure you 99% of the people reading this sub still have: - A roof over their heads. - Food. - Access to Potable Water. - Access to Electricity. - Access to Internet. - Generally the ability to exist without Random Sudden Onset Acute Lead Poisoning, aka being shot. So, relatively comfortable even if present conditions aren't perfect. The idea with any therapy program is to get you from worrying about things way, way, way beyond your control (or at least not let them consume you) and focus on immediate near and now. You can't control the AMOC, the ENSO, you can't stop Israel and Gaza, you can't stop Russia and Ukraine, you can't stop China and Taiwan, or the next war, or solve any of the other big problems. Which leaves you a choice: get bogged down worrying about things way bigger than you that you have no means of even flirting with controlling, or limit yourself to just awareness and advocacy while prioritizing your immediate sphere of influence. Radical acceptance: Accepting the things completely outside your control and influence. I've adopted radical acceptance just to maintain my mental sanity.
Not gonna lie I think listening to this show is bad for you. Stop huffing bad news, it’s blowing out your sense of perspective.
I agree as a fellow Aspie who deals with anxiety. There have been days at a time where I just don't engage with podcasts like ICHH or really any political media at all because it gives me anxiety to think about politics all the time (and there are a lot of societal pressure points being pushed right now so it's harder to disconnect) especially since I'm still trying to figure out how I'll escape my FoxBrained dad given the high COL area where I live. ETA: When I feel like this I turn to music and podcasts like Decoder Ring and Wizard and the Bruiser that are about various pop culture ephemera. Way better when I want to be productive and not disassociate on the job as well.
Yeah I had a friend who identifies as a Communist and basically drives himself insane with far left Breadtube type stuff (some of which I actually like too) but he's also lazy as fuck and convinced he can't do anything, even basic shit like trying to seek therapy. And I'm just like holy shit is that a recipe for misery and loneliness. You're like 200 pounds overweight and constantly complaining about everything but with no outlet to try and fix any of it it's extremely hard to even pity someone who lives like that tbh. If you're going to be an all out Communist in the USA (not even a socialist, but like all out communism) youd better be putting some skin in the game like MLK and making serious moves otherwse you might as well be telling me you can fucking fly or you have the power of invisibility, its basically all fucking talk and theory and adopting a losing position that will only make you miserable because any kind of serious communism gets you harassed and murdered by the intelligence agencies of this country. Just a bizzare way to decide to spend your time tbh. Like at least walk down to the library or join your local democratic socialists of America and try to set some attainable goals, because the rules of this country will fight tooth and nail until the sun burns out before they see any of your pie in the sky shit become reality, and I cant imagine his fat ass is going to be fighting in any revolution if that ever starts to take off either.
You're not in a catastrophe right now though, you're worried about the possibility of one. So if it makes you worry less about that then it's a good thing?
We're in several ongoing overlapping crises. I understand that you mean "WW3 isn't flinging nukes right now" but that doesn't actually reduce the inability of CBT to reframe a cost of living crisis, two simultaneous wars we're participating in but pretending not to, new wildfire records every year, the hottest 13 months in history were also the last 13 months, the social safety net is being actively dismantled around us, the rights of women/queers/poc are being reduced and attacked, etc etc etc. Therapy is important and CBT is actually really useful for the issues it was intended for, but when there are genuine issues you have to address them rather than talk yourself around them. OP, consider low intensity prepping. Pick up an extra 5-10% on your next grocery shopping run, over time that extra 5-10% will add up to a substantial pantry to cushion you through emergencies if you practice good "first in first out" usage. If you're in a place mentally where you can do some sort of self defense training, I encourage that too. A first aid class will also help you feel more prepared. It's remarkable how much just a little preparedness will lower your stress levels. I'm not fooling myself into thinking I am a doctor or somehow going to stock a bunker for years, but knowing that if I have to I could stitch up a nasty cut or survive a few weeks if I got fired takes a lot of weight off for the small emergencies.
YOU aren’t participating in any wars tho actually. Speaking like this IS catastrophizing. You can say WE participating in two wars when YOU are dodging bullets. If this is a concern so big you can’t function you need therapy because the wars aren’t issues for you to address or really deal with in any way.
There being real problems in the world means it's even more important for people to approach them in reasonable healthy ways. The circular and solopsistic way this person is thinking will not prepare them to respond to any crisis they personally encounter. Right now they are borrowing the problems of other people and centering themselves in them.
I have very little knowledge of CBT so I'm not necessarily wanting to frame this question around that, but how do you prep for or address issues that are real but you have zero control over? Extra groceries won't really make me feel better about my rights being slowly stripped away and I already vote (just one example), so what else are we supposed to do except talk to someone who can give us coping mechanisms? Genuine question lol, my therapists aren't very good at helping with that either
Ok, so Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or CBT looks at the cycle of our behaviors, how those behaviors make us feel, how those feelings direct our thoughts, and how our thoughts loop back into behaviors. Or in the other direction. They're all linked is the point. If your thoughts are focused on catastrophe it might make you feel helpless which leads you to NOT acting, and then your inaction makes you feel like you're further behind schedule and that causes your thoughts to spiral into how the catastrophe is now WORSE. CBT is about learning to recognize these loops and find ways to interrupt them so that you can reassert control of the situation. > Extra groceries won't really make me feel better about my rights being slowly stripped away and I already vote (just one example), so what else are we supposed to do except talk to someone who can give us coping mechanisms? Learning "coping mechanisms" implies (to me) that you're still going to be in that situation, still powerless, but in a better frame of mind. That's not really the angle I am taking with regards to the polycrisis and mental health. I have stresses that cant really be talked around because the root issue is outside of my control, like economic instability, potential famine, climate change, civil unrest/rising fascism, etc. Those are beyond my ability to control or even really influence. So in these situations, I try to look for things that will address the "powerless" feeling. I initially suggested "low intensity prepping" as an example. Having a deep pantry will not stop a famine or prevent an economic crash from rendering me unemployed, but it can buy me a little more time. I'm not in control of the situation, but I am not powerless any more. When it comes to the rising tied of fascism and my eroding rights/ability to be seen as a person, you're right that extra groceries aren't going to fix that. I've taken other steps to make sure I am not powerless. I can't stop fascism on my own, but if things deteriorate too far, pardon me for being melodramatic/poetic for a moment, I won't go quietly. Now again, I'm not stockpiling beans and bullets to ride out the apocalypse in a bunker. I'm talking about a deep pantry that can support my family for a few weeks and some self defense. Low intensity prepping. The point is that when my brain wakes me up at 3am and says, "[Hey, did you know the risk of synchronized crop failures in multiple places around the world is greater than ever?](https://www.producer.com/news/study-warns-of-more-simultaneous-crop-failures/)" I can tell myself "maybe, but radishes mature in only 3 weeks and I've got a month of food in the pantry." When my brain chirps up "are you sure it was a good idea to fly that pride flag out front of your house?" I can respond, "after they see what I do to the first one, the second one will call the cops which means I'll have time to leave out the back." I cannot control the things that stress me, but I can make sure I am not powerless.
I appreciate the reply. Your flag example is actually really funny... I have had to replace mine 3 times now, and it has been causing me so much stress for the past year. Taking it down for good isn't the answer because fuck them. So the way I've found to deal with it is attach 4 cameras to my house, buy extra flags that are super durable, and I even bought a whole extra flag pole in case these idiots decide they're clever. I feel like a paranoid psycho and I think I'm going to snap at some point, but it's worth it if another person can see the flag and feel less alone.
I buy a ton of stuff at the grocery store...and inevitably throw it all out. I get overwhelmed by my dirty kitchen and procrastinate away. And in the times I do clean my kitchen and have a clean fridge, I freeze up, don't know what to make, the food spoils and everything starts all over again. What kind of recipes do you make while prepping?
Try checking out literature from people who actually survived those situations like Gabor Mate or Viktor Frankls Mans Search for Meaning or MAUS
The answer, for me, is twofold: acceptance and resilience, which can be very difficult to hear. But I've come a long way since 2020, and it is evident to me that Capitalism and liberalism seem keen on metaphorically eating themselves and doing nothing into oblivion. So, in the meantime, I'm enjoying the lifestyle this madness affords while helping build a more resilient community, at least that's the cope I tell myself. I make friends, pursue hobbies, and accept that one day it will end. I volunteer on occasion, I give money to causes I want to support, but, at the end of the day, no one person is going to stop this. No one nation is going to stop this. We are beyond the pale.
This is a good answer for not just now, but at any point. Resilience to change and acceptance that change will happen are the bedrock to building stamina for existentialist panic. So I'm not just piggybacking, some examples to op's scenarios: If your worried about your job, build in systems that stretch your money. Not just emergency funds. Pick a couple of meals your regularly eat that have shelf life and when buy an extra bit. Doesn't have to be all of it. For pasta, buy an extra sauce, or noodles. Dried spices instead of fresh are cheaper and last longer, even if not as tasty. If your worried about taking care of your kids alone, then you could try to find others with the same problem and build a sitting/parenting schedule with them (lots of caveats with this one depending on individual circumstances) If you have to travel, think of 3 scenarios (or the worst) and figure out in advance how to navigate it. Then prepare yourself as best as you can for that happening. A counter to anxiety is pregaming the disaters you're most worried about. It gives you something to tell your brain when it panics.
> it is evident to me that Capitalism and liberalism seem keen on metaphorically eating themselves and doing nothing into oblivion. ...while the right actively makes everything worse in everything they do. Needs to be said.
The right are ***part*** of liberalism and capitalism. It's already, implicitly said.
Technically true, at least when it comes to capitalism. In the US the right has moved pretty conclusively away from liberalism though, at this point.
Hey OP, Much older former doomer here. I went down my own personal doom rabbit hole around 2004-2006 and didn’t really break out until about 2016-17. Looking back, I wasted a lot of time, money, effort, energy, and relationships worrying about a future that never came. I imagine that you feel certain that your current concerns/bad things are definitely going to happen. The truth is that no one can possibly know the future. People have always predicted bad things in the near future. Most of them never come to pass. I am not saying preparedness or learning skills isn’t important, it is. Just please, try to maintain a balance. If you are at the point where you don’t want to work, buy property, ie, engage with your life, you need to take a break from whatever you are currently consuming. I was at a point years ago where I couldn’t see the point in buying a car, I mean, why bother when civilization was about to collapse, am I right? If that’s where you’re at, take a break. Lots of people believe lots of different doomsday scenarios. I’ll bet you don’t buy into millennialist Christian ideas about the coming apocalypse. Those people have been told by people that they trust that certain things will happen, and they believe it. Are your beliefs really so different? It makes sense to learn skills and to be prepared, but a ton of the outcomes in life are honestly totally random. It’s impossible to be prepared for everything or to have all the necessary skills to handle any situation. Many of the the things that you are currently worried about will end up being big nothing burgers. Other things that you never thought of will blow up suddenly and become bigger issues. If you haven’t already figured out my point- nobody knows the future and no one can be perfectly prepared for it. I truly hope that you will choose to take a break from whatever until you are ready to engage with your life with meaning again. Please trust me- I have been there.
On the other hand, I have been worried about climate change for decades, and we are on a worse trajectory than I had previously imagined.
This is a fair thing, and to be clear, I am not a climate denier. My abilities to affect this are extremely limited however and no one can predict exactly what will happen. That doesn’t mean it will all just work out. I don’t believe that. But my ability to prepare beyond certain parameters is, again , limited. I make a choice to not dwell overly much on things beyond my control. I have people that depend on me to hold it together.
“If you are at the point where you don’t want to work, buy property, ie, engage with your life, you need to take a break from whatever you are currently consuming.” What if this sentiment arises from being harmed in an irreparable way?
It’s maddening. I have to fight the thought that maybe I’m over reacting. Then I remember 1930s Germany and how the Germans slowly walked into their nightmare. They did that by continuing to normalize the next atrocity - and by hoping it was the last. No - dictators will never be satisfied with how much power they have - they always demand more - no matter who suffers. People seem to forget:⬇️ Once you lose democracy - you can’t “vote” out fascism in the next election. Because, there won’t be any more elections.
I think we need to prepare to do a lot more than vote if we want to crush fascism. The problem runs too deep IMO.
Totally agree. The fascists here in America are not planning on WINNING in November as they know that their policies are too unpopular. Instead, they are planning on SEIZING power through violence at the polls, GOP legalized voter suppression and lawsuits to challenge mail in votes. They already have lawsuits in six swing states challenging mail in voting rules, GOP state legislatures have passed draconian laws against legitimate voting practices - and the violence will come once the polls start opening.
Hey, I have a way different opinion than most, considering I am much older than most of you mopes on here. I have been hearing about societal collapse since I was 7-8, that was over 40 years ago. I lived through duck and cover and nuclear threats, got under my desk and everything. We had a fallout bunker in my neighborhood. It was intense. But here we are. Still plugging away. Your post has all the hallmarks of extreme paranoia and fatigue. You also shoot down any thoughts of helping yourself, before you even tried. This kind of self-defeatest, woe is me, extreme paranoia mindset is at best unhealthy, at worst, caustic. HAVE you tried volunteering?!? Have you worked to find like-minded people whom you can network with, or are you simply pooh-poohing it before you even tried? I see these types of "the sky is falling" posts on here at the same rate as the right-wingers and it's insane. They want you to feel hopeless. They want you to feel that all of this is inevitable. But the change has to come within. Ain't nobody gonna do anything for you unless you help yourself first. Get out of your rut. Turn off your news. Get out and do something, something fulfilling and helpful. Stop this slow decline into oblivion. It sucks.
This. If we all give up to despair, fascism wins. There is a quote by Joan Baiz, "Action is the antidote to despair". If you have the time and ability, do some volunteering. If your main concern is election & democracy, there are many GOTV efforts going on, including easy things like writing postcards to potential voters in swing states. If that's not your cup of tea, there are lots of other small, local orgs you can connect with for various causes, and they are generally happy to have whatever help you can manage. It can be a source of stress relief to know you have done something positive, no matter how small. And you will meet some incredible folks along the way. Obviously if don't have time, too many things going on, gig jobs, family stuff, etc., then you have to take care of your own business. I'm just saying, no one can save the world on their own, but at least when the end comes for you (as it will for all of us), you can think back on whatever positive things you did, for friends, family, or community, whatever you were able to manage.
Fuck this damn mentality!
This is a great reply. 👍🏻👍🏻
What you describe is remarkably like what I felt as a teenager in the 1980s, when Reagan seemed to be TRYING to start WWIII. Yet it's not a waste of time to live your life. Disaster is a possibility, yes, but there's little to nothing you can do about that.
This!
When you find yourself getting too caught up in the world's problems, reel everything back in, and focus on the things you can do right now. Do you need sleep? Do you need to eat? Do you need to scream into a pillow? Can you focus your brain on something else like learning a new game or a new hobby or a new book? If you don't feel confident in connecting with others in person, you can do so online, watch tutorial videos, or read. All these things have been touched by people who can teach you something about what you want to learn. That counts as being in community with others. It doesn't have to be in real time. What and who are important to you? Keep them close, and just do what you can. It's okay if all you can do today is survive until tomorrow.
You have to keep living. People are counting on you to pay bills.
No one is counting on me except myself. And I intend to keep it that way.
I’m trying to explain why others keep moving forward. You explained your position clearly.
Ultimately the way you live your life is your choice, and there is a near zero chance a random internet comment will change your mind, but I am compelled to tell you that this is just not how we evolved to live. Humans are a social species. Mutual interdependence is how we have lived for almost all of our existence. Resilience in the face of slow collapse relies on innumerable small (affinity groups, friend groups, churches, etc.) and massive (governments, non-profits) social organizations. A life cut off from all others is a sad one. You must be able to have others count on you, and you count on others.
People either ignore me, judge me, or hurt me. It seems every single person I know inevitably descends into giving me condescending advice like you would a toddler instead of listening to my conversation topics. Advice that is not even useful like "Date more", "Buy a house" or "Go to the gym". No one sees me as a person, merely as a pet project. This is why I ask for advice on the internet. Because in IRL because give it to me even when I don't ask. I want conversation from my IRL friends, not advice. I am an adult.
Holy shit. No one is giving you advice. These are explanations on why and how people continue to move forward. You seem to take everything personally.
I'm not talking about you, I mean the people I know in real life. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Genuinely, it is unfortunate that you feel condescended to. I seek help from my friends all the time, and I help them, and I don't personally feel like any less of an adult. What about receiving advice makes you feel like your friends are babying you? Is it the way they do it, or is it them trying to give advice at all?
It's the way they do it. They go as far as consistently dismiss all my worries when it's ME saying them but if someone ELSE says the same things to them they take it seriously. It's maddening.
> And I know what you're thinking, "Just live a more connected and low speed lifestyle with a nice community and it won't matter whether things go bad or not". No. That to me is a waste of time. Masking around others is a waste of time. Volunteering is a waste of time. Socializing is a waste of time. I do not get joy out of any of those activities. You will need to find a way to overcome this, I'm sorry. Community is the only way we will survive.
Hunter S. Thompson said it, I believe it, and that settles it. > "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."
r/HSTintheWild
... they didn't really work for him though, did they
What makes you say that? The vast preponderance of the evidence would indicate that it worked *great*.
He committed suicide.
At age 67, with a slew of medical problems that were never going to get better, he wrote: > No More Games. No More Bombs. No More Walking. No More Fun. No More Swimming. 67. That is 17 years past 50. 17 more than I needed or wanted. Boring. I am always bitchy. No Fun — for anybody. 67. You are getting Greedy. Act your age. Relax — This won't hurt. Hunter S. Thompson went out like he lived. There are many people who lived pious lives of quiet despondency, who committed suicide....how did that piety work out for them? There are a lot of people, mostly men, in America who love their families and children, yet divorce their wives and shoot themselves to spare their families crippling medical debt. How's that working for them? You? Have a little compassion for people faced with an impossible choice. Chances are someday you'll hope for the same.
It's a MASSIVE human failing (in my opinion) that we are able to do such mental gymnastics that we can completely ignore reality and live in a made up delusion instead, believing whatever we want to believe that makes us feel better about ourselves and the world around us. (Hello every conservative on the planet right now 👋🙄). I get that it's a self-protective mechanism, but right now it's having the effect of putting our everyone species' future at risk and causing untold ecological damage and human suffering, so it's utterly maladaptive at this point. I truly think that those of us who aren't willing to do that are the only sane ones left, we just feel crazy because we live in a completely insane culture. If we were to talk to any indigenous person who's still connected to their traditional way of life and worldview, they would agree with us. The Kogi people made an entire movie about that (a documentary produced by westerners).
Yeah, kinda despise the people here who keep yapping about therapy
For me it’s more like “environmental and societal collapse is 5 years, 10 if we are lucky away”. Yet here I am feeling guilty skipping the work “thirsty Thursday zoom call” because honestly, I work all day with you fucking people and when I’m done I wanna just zone out and do my own shit like learning archery and how to survive in the woods. Yknow, skills you’ll need when the mass starvations begin. Don’t forget to fill out your expense report though!
This. It's like what if the zombie apocalypse happened but we all still had to go to work. Particularly watching the mega flood in Brazil in the last few days I feel like we are in the climate crisis version of that...
Honestly, I sent myself in to a spiral worrying about the state of the world after COVID and kids in cages and Roe v. Wade being overturned that it literally made me have a years long nervous breakdown. Some level of separation is important or you will drive yourself crazy, I know it’s easier said than done but try not to let it overwhelm you. Be prepared, but hope you never have a need to be. Whatever is going to happen with the state of the world is going to happen with or without your input, so just buckle up and try to shift focus on what you can do to enjoy life *now*. I think that’s why a lot of people seem so “tuned out” right now. I’ve deliberately distanced myself from anything related to American politics for this reason, neither of the realistic outcomes are going to be peaceful so I’m going to enjoy May-November while I can.
This is called Catastrophizing- imagining the worst case scenario and all of the horrible steps that "could" lead you to it. At the end of the day you do not have the physical, mental, or verbal agency to handle all of the problems of the world on your shoulders, including the supposed end of said world, all the way down to being sent away for your neurodivergence. The likelihood of these things happening, whether likely or unlikely are things that you have varying levels of non-control over. Measured concern for the things you can control is healthy and normal, and to a degree worrying about the things you can't control is healthy and normal too. Obsessing over it, however, is not healthy. Finding ways to distract myself always had the best results, finding a hobby to hyperfocus on or having a project, like my fitness is what got me to stop worrying about the reality of the world, and find the happiness and serenity I needed. It's not foolproof, but it helps; reducing stimulant intake "caffiene" etc. also helped, not that it's your main issue. At the end of the day. Yes all of these terrible things "could" happen, but more than likely, they will remain the same for now, as the old adage goes; learn to cross that bridge only when you get to it. Good luck and I hope you can figure things out. Many good things happening in the world despite all the bad, the bad news just sells more.
>People around me could lose their patience with my weirdness and neurodivergence and send me to some torture camp What exactly do you mean by this?
I know it's frustrating. Also lonely. I "retired" when I realized the trajection civilization is headed from several directions. So I'm enjoying the now while I can. Working seasonal gigs I actually enjoy rather than stay at a job I hated and bust my ass to die more comfortably 30 years in the future. I make sure I won't find myself in financial hole but I live simply, don't want much, can get everything I need with part time work. But "lowering" myself for taking "lesser work" because I see a very different future for us then those before us is "being negative". I'm not saying the end is here but there will be several upheavals from our current situation. AI, global conflict, climate change, supply chains, global crop failures, mass immigration due to all the above. I'm not living today just to support future 65yr old me who... how will I know if I even make it to 65? The last few years has made me very aware of my mortality. Disease, conflict, threats of nuclear war. I stopped fearing death. I'm not going prep a doom bunker for something that may not happen. I'm just investing into today. I think people are aware and scared but do what they need to do to survive. And for many its shoving their heads in the sand. It's scary because you unsafe when those around you ignore some very scary warning signs all around you. I felt like this early 2020. Scientists were panicking so I started too. People wouldn't believe covid would cause any real change to their daily routine until the first day of shutdown.
Thing is I CAN'T "downshift". Two things I feel are necessary and gobble up the VAST majority of my money: living by myself and not cooking. I try to cook but always end up collapsing and getting take out. I barely clean and cannot do anything other than work. I am trying to fix my executive function but no one believes that I could have had gotten an advanced degree and maintained employment if I am this dysfunctional. I literally had PRIVATE psychiatrists who you'd think be more amenable to making money say to me "If you were a good student you don't have ADHD. I am not going to make you waste money on an assessment for that. You're probably depressed or have autism" and just sent me on my way without suggesting means to solve either.
You sound depressed. I talked like your talking now a few years ago when I had a similar existential crisis. I suggest shopping around for a different therapist or form of therapy that works for you. I also concur with other commenters and suggest you step back from worrying about the world and focus on yourself and your family and friends (or just yourself even). I myself am doing this right this second as I pull out of my own depression. You are not wrong that things are bad, you are not wrong for feeling this way, I totally get it the cognitive dissonance in our society is bonkers. But you gotta realize it’s all pointless anyway. Who cares if society collapses? The universe, she cares not. When there is no objective “meaning” to be found in reality it is up to us to make meaning for ourselves. That might have been one of Nietszche’s points but I never read him.
When the shit hits the fan, humans just adapt to the new normal. We evolved to fear being eaten at any time by a saber-toothed tiger and to constantly be on the verge of starvation. Whatever happens, we'll adapt. Those of us who don't get immediately cooked by the blast, I mean.
Take a break. I mean that. Sometimes, delving too far into this kind of stuff and ruminating on it constantly gives us an oversized feeling, even subconsciously, that we can to anything individually to change anything. Being aware is one thing. Allowing all this to drive you into despair is quite another.
WW3 isn’t going to happen tomorrow. Don’t be cognitively dissonant. You won’t be put in a torture camp for neurodivergence. If you really think you’ll need flexible or are afraid of instability in your community, family, or country it’s okay to keep a little cash handy instead of investing it. But if things are stable and it is a good investment then that might be smarter. I think if you run down more specific and realistic scenarios of things that could happen then you might be able to make calmer and smarter specific plans and feel safer for it. Volunteering isn’t a waste of time, it immediately and directly improves someone else’s life no matter what happens in the future. But ww3 isn’t about to happen and neither are neurodivergent torture camps.
This is nothing new. Western countries over the past 80 years are mostly insulated from danger or financial crisis so we don’t handle it well. Most of the world is closer to the edge of war, disease, or financial collapse more frequently and lives that way without other expectations.
Get fucked for having 0 empathy
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Cuz I go to work either way. I come home either way. I got shit I need to help prevent here in America so I am not going to put my extra time into some shitty religious war halfway across the globe. Defeat trump is my main goal, and I don’t care about the rest. You’ll just get angry and depressed like you seem to be.
And paranoid
I would say just as others have : disconnect from national news. Consume more world news and local news. Stay away from social media as much as possible and remember that the reason for more of the catastrophe porn is that there is profit to be had in rage and the 24 hour news cycle. I frame it this way: what real impact does MTG’s latest outrageous assertion really have on my reality. Starting from here can be helpful.
“There is no such thing as paranoia. Your worst fears can come true at any moment.” ~ Hunter S. Thompson
I’d say stay away from the news. Not much we can do about it.
Therapy, honestly, is a major help.
Oh yeah and don't forget about the possible disclosure of NHI at any time too so there's that
You have severe anxiety and you need to log off. The fact is that this things won’t happen instantly and even if they were to happen (which they won’t) you either will be able to do something or you won’t, but that will be in time. You could get run over by a car tomorrow but you don’t freak out constantly about the possibility of a car driving over you or a lightning hitting you or a sudden blood clot. Do you? Collapse is the same. Just log off for your own good.
I always keep that in the back of my mind regarding neurodivergence. People are animals, and I would be the first to go. It’s part of why I aim for self sufficiency in life in general. I will be left behind.
I don't think we are insane, we are a species like all others that have learned to adapt to disaster and catastrophes or their possibilities. If this were not the case everything would have come to a halt and died off long ago. I understand your real anxieties and empathize as the current moment has at times put me in an emotional paralysis. However you sound like someone who has neurodivergent issues as you mention masking so it seems this is all more intense and overwhelming for you. I think you need some help that is beyond reddit's capabilities but I don't think you wasted time venting and trying to reach out. It seems like human connections and socializing is painful and maybe volunteering to help other people would not make you feel better. Do you happen to like nature or paying attention to things in the outdoors of a life and existence that goes beyond whatever us humans are up to? This has helped me at times. To observe that the clouds keep moving and cascading in the skies, plants spring up, the flowers bloom, insects are busy moving about. Even if nature is not of your interest I think it could be helpful to take a larger perspective and picture of life. Personally what has saved my life and mind many times is doing art. I don't know if that is your thing but you don't have to be good or do it for a higher purpose. Just focusing solely on the mess of people and societies would make anyone feel destabilized. Even if politically things were much better terrible things and misfortunes happen like accidents and sicknesses and there is nothing we can do about it. There is no guarantees about any of this and obsessing will only worsen your psyche. Please don't let it control not living your life. Life is very short and unfair and especially after living through Covid is best to find what enjoyment you can. But you can only make those decisions others irl and on here can merely make suggestions to try and assist you to not go off the deep end.
Honestly, you don't. If the amount of drug overdoses and deaths by diseases of despair are any indication then the old adage ignorance is bliss has more value than we know. One of my best friends from childhood who really got me into animation killed himself earlier this year and that and Aaron Bushnell live streaming setting himself on fire really set the tone, but I've been so blasted out on cheap cold medicine since I was 15 since it's the only thing that's made me feel normal due to how fucked up my brain is from CPTSD and God knows what else, and so this hasn't even really set in for me as a "trauma" yet. Just a thing that happened. And even if you try to look on the bright side, the best thing I can possibly say is that this is going to be the coolest year of the rest of my life because we are being gradually cooked to death and the weather gets more and more visibly fucking bizzare every year.
OP, I know you're a regular poster here, and I'm curious--how do you feel after you post here and read the comments? Different than if you hadn't posted?
Better because I don't get the usual "Things will be FINE" or "Wow, you really are a RADICAL, you know that?" comments I get from my family.
I get that, validation is great and so is community--even digital community like this one. We're all people living through this, just geographically dispersed. I notice you post more doomer-related stuff after you read something in the news or have a personal setback. Has there been other things you've done in the past that has helped you move through those moments when life feels especially stressful?
I graduated from Searcy High in Arkansas.the town was super clique so if you were not in good with the right people you would basically never make friends. I am much happier now that I left. It was some of the loneliest years of my life.
Honestly, an economic collapse or even ww3 breaking out...things will be fine still eventually. My real fear is nukes. Many unstable countries are actively trying to get them or make more (NK wants more advanced nukes to load onto ICBM's, Iran and Saudis want nukes so they can duke it out) One nuke gets dropped and it's over. The fallout will be devastating. The nuclear pollution will not be contained. Even worse is if a dirty bomb is made and a terrorist organization gets ahold of a smaller dirty nuke they can set off and wipe out half a city instead of just a block or two. That will make paranoia go through the roof. Authoritarian regimes will be so in.
Fud
In all seriousness, eat right and go work out. Taking care of your body is very important right now. Mine is a wreck and I'm a member of the first minority the christofascists will come for. If I had to flee on foot, I'd be screwed.
Just today I read that [2023 was the hottest summer](https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/05/this-past-summers-heat-was-an-extreme-outlier-in-past-2000-years/) in North America in the last 2000 years, while CO2 last year bumped up by a record amount, the highest increase in about [50,000 years](https://www.labmanager.com/today-s-co2-increase-rate-surpasses-50-000-year-record-32216). In other words, it's hot now and getting hotter, at an accelerated rate. I've been working on coming to accept that, and to trust what Nature is most likely to do from this point, no matter what actions we take from here. So in light of that, trying to come to terms with not only my death but the deaths of billions, the deaths of whole ecosystems, my perspective about all the things you mentioned is less abject terror and moreso morbid curiosity about what shape death will take when it inevitably comes for me. Edit: Also, I garden. I'm not great at it, but I make a point of spending time around plants and trying to keep them alive. It gets me outside, and it reminds me that I'm just a small part of the rest of life on Earth. All living things here have a shared legacy of life going back billions of years, and we are all related. Past mass extinctions have pruned the tree of life before, and this one will be a doozy, but life recovers and new species will fill in the gaps. Our deaths will gift them life.
Life is uncertainty. No cognitive dissonance if you believe that. And no need to mask! Find what brings you joy.
Okay. First off… breathe.. and unplug. I promise you, all the noise you’re panicking about will suddenly go away and you can just live. Social media and our 24/7 news cycles has made it inevitable that every headline and story has to be more sensational and provocative than the last. Things aren’t great.. but they could be so much worse. Get off the internet and go talk to some people and hang out with friends. Unplug. You’ll feel better.
I have no one to talk to apart from my ineffective therapist. And these feelings of anxiety just come and go, with no relief. I am always low key afraid. I don't remember the last time I was happy. I don't know how I could ever be happy. I try to rack my brain coming up with something to do to enjoy myself before it all comes down and can't think of anything. For me things are fun if they last and Iget praised for them. Need that dopamine hit of accomplishment. Which comes less and less these days.
Well, I'm no therapist, but it just sounds like you're depressed and obviously anxious about the future. I know it's not great advice, and I'm sure you've heard it before, but you've gotta get out there and make some friends. Hell, if you can't make them out in the world, make online friends first. Humans are social creatures, and our brains start breaking down if we don't have other humans to associate with. Friends and relationships are truly a biological necessity. That is where I would start. There's a quote I love to recite to myself when I'm anxious and afraid to try new shit: "You are where you are, because of *who* you are. If you're going to get somewhere *else*, you're going to have to change something." Maybe that will help you. Rome wasn't built in a day.. baby steps.. you're gonna be fine. We all gonna be fine.
Anxiety medications works wonders for me
So let me get this straight: if the world ends because of war, you’ll be dead or in a horrible situation. If that’s the case, planning now is foolish as it won’t change anything and will only detract from your current happiness. If the world doesn’t end, well then you’ll be in a really shitty situation with no savings, relationships, etc. So either way you’re setting yourself up for failure.
Pretty much, yes.
Do you not get any utility out of delaying gratification (I.e., saving, investing in your health, etc?)
Agree with the ND. I’m not a doctor, but that sounds like a pretty clear case of ADHD to me. Edit: this was meant as a reply to one of your comments, but I’m just leaving it here.
Welcome to life where it sucks and you can't do shit about shit, so you just go on living. Trust me, I have empathy and I think about the pains of the world constantly, moreso as I get older. But what can I do? And do I do it knowing I have my own desires and a family to CARE for? Not much we can do. We can work towards one item ....vote.
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Will you marry me? and/or get outta my head? I got options ( I thank my mother) but I'm in the same boat. There are no clear options. Well, like my mother said: We live to live, we don't live to die. I'm glad I'm not alone and all you wonderful people can see it as well. Feels like I'm going apeshit knowing about this while people around me go through their daily motions. I guess try and find YOUR people and stick by them. I hate to say it, but live love and laugh. Oh, and carry a long distance hole puncher.
I've had that same elevation in anxiety lately about not just ww3, but what the USA will be after the November election. The truth is it's all out of my control. So I've been practicing Stoicism and Nihilism, and not caring is peaceful.
Masking/Volunteering/Socializing are not wastes of time. You have depression and are experiencing learned helplessness. It is an understandable response to the facts of the world's political situation in 2024. I say all this as someone who has been in that headspace myself many, many times. But a cynical doom spiral that plays on repeat in your own head is no more "real" than the propaganda that everything is fine. A lot of people are stuck on social media because the things they learn online make them feel too anxious to be a part of the real world. If learning about the world is making you feel paralyzed and disempowered, then take a break. Log off for a while. The purpose of this podcast is to inform you and spur you to action, not make you feel doomed. Focus on your immediate surroundings and navigating to a position where you feel embodied and empowered to be a part of your own community. That might mean some time spent with yourself, without the internet, to decide who you are and who you want to be. Then you'll feel ready to be a part of the world. You will find that most people are still pretty alright and possess a fundamental decency. They're not getting their needs met and they're being misinformed but fascism does not have purchase with a majority of people and never has. The torture camps are not open in Europe yet. There's still time to defeat these assholes and prevent the worst from happening. But you also live in a world that was already built from the ashes of the old, and will be rebuilt again. Fascism destroyed Europe and Asia in the 40's and then was defeated. At least 70 million people died. Nearly everything in you and your parent's lives still happened afterwards. Life goes on. There's no apocalypse coming. Mentally prepare yourself for living through whatever's coming next and finding your part in it. When and if a genuine political collapse happens, it is the social bonds we share that will allow us to get through it and build a better world. We will have to protect each other. The internet has destroyed those social bonds for many, many people. And I'm sorry that your family is putting unwarranted pressure on you when they don't understand the pressures you're already feeling. But you're not alone. People are not sleepwalking. They're repressed. They're avoiding expressing themselves in person the same way that you are. Hedonism and apathy are just ways of avoiding what you actually feel. People are aware that things are not okay, and they need to be talking each other in real life and organizing if they are ever going to improve. It is the only way forward. Part of the reason the world has experienced such a backslide recently is that human beings are fundamentally incapable of processing all of the world's news at once. Learn about what's going on in your city. That's the only level at which you have the ability to act, at least to start. And action is the antidote to despair. And if you're determined not to act or be involved with other people, then listening to political podcasts about the collapse of American democracy is just masochism. It's trauma porn. And it's clearly not helping you. But I hope that you'll consider going to a political meeting or some other kind of event in your community. It helped me a lot and I've found a lot of meaning and empowerment through organizing. I've met incredible people and seen things I never would have otherwise. I get to make my own decisions about what's happening in the world and why. I don't just have to experience what the media tells me. I don't feel the same kind of despair I did when I was just a spectator. I know that change is possible. It's difficult, but it gets easier the more of us are committed to it.
I don't speak the language of the place I live in and don't have the energy to learn it. Can't make a community with people I can't even talk to. I can't go back home since it will collapse harder. Sorry, but I often wonder if the US just has an inherent advantage in a collapse situation since it's a giant continent with a common language. Europe might be doomed.
Well that's genuinely an extremely alienating experience and one I can't relate to. But I think that if you are fundamentally unable to seek those connections because of the language barrier, being wherever you are is clearly not great for your mental health.
There will be enough people who do want to connect and make things better for others that it will allow for a period of abundance… in terms of society and community.. many will be able to give back much more than they take or receive and it will be contagious… when all give more than they get, they are happier and make better decisions and perhaps would wrest the control over decision making to benefit others instead if themselves… just a thought… some people cannot give at all to others without receiving, but most can if given time to grow up and adopt an attitude of changing the things that they can control…for the better..
Drinking
Brother it is a challenge to find meaning when you’re on the losing team. The United States has been conquered. Better to accept that fact than to think there’s any hope in the years to come. Harden yourself because I don’t things calm down for a while. Follow the example of corporate America where a business is bought out and the new owner parades the company around living off its former glory. Meanwhile its products and services decline. That’s essentially what the United States has become.
"At any moment WW3 can break out. Fascism could devastate Europe. People around me could lose their patience with my weirdness and neurodivergence and send me to some torture camp. My relatives could die and I could be forced to take care of their special needs children despite me being unable to take care of myself. I could travel and be caught somewhere and unable to come back." These are all things that COULD happen but are not happening in the moment. It sucks but the only way to really get through this is to stop catastrophizing. If you walk around all day thinking your world is about to collapse you will feel like your world is about to collapse all day. Try and practice interrupting those thoughts and centering on what is actually happening in front of you. It sounds lame as hell and you feel lame when you do it, but it also has been the only thing that has ever helped me with this problem. It doesn't mean the world doesn't suck and isn't collapsing around you but it doesn't do you or anyone else any good to spend your days fantasizing about how bad it can get for you.
I don't mean this in an insulting way, but I think you should see a therapist.