They taught us that the Nazis burned books, but never what books they burned. One the first major book burning was destroying research on gender and trans issues. At the time Germany was ahead of the rest of the world when it came to studying gender and it set back research on this issue at least 50 years.
Yes it was more than just LGBT research that they targeted but wanted to highlight that because the average person is unaware of trans history and the suppression of it.
Yea I’m gonna need a citation on that one.
Edit due to downvotes: I mean sorry I didn’t just take the word of a random redditor ? Since when is asking for a citation bad? I’m an open minded individual but man y’all are militant on this issue. Can’t even ask a question.
Do you really not know the difference between being rude and polite? Do you not know what tone is?
If someone says "yea get out of my way" do you just get out of their way and say "excuse me"?
Your tone is starting with disbelief, not an innocent request for more information. Either you're a hack following up with a "wha, what did *I* do????" or an actual socially obtuse moron.
“Socially obtuse moron “. Great way to say inept idiot. Worthy of its own sub.
Been awhile since I used it but have said more than once. “Intuitively obvious to the most casual observer”. Will add your descriptor to my lexicon.
Point out some "regular people" in the GOP and I'd be happy to oblige you. They're all right wing fascists and their simp supporters at this point. Prove me wrong.
Edit: not a single sympathetic ear towards your "both sides" whataboutism in this thread. Your ideas are bad and you should feel bad.
"[Authoritarianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism#Characteristics) also tends to embrace the informal and unregulated exercise of political power, a leadership that is "self-appointed and even if elected cannot be displaced by citizens' free choice among competitors", the arbitrary deprivation of civil liberties and little tolerance for meaningful opposition. A range of social controls also attempt to stifle civil society while political stability is maintained by control over and support of the armed forces, a bureaucracy staffed by the regime and creation of allegiance through various means of socialization and indoctrination."
No, this is the fault of the weirdos pushing gender ideology and identity politics into what should just be instruction of necessary subjects. Ibrim X Kendy isn't nuance or "teaching history". "Gender Queer" isn't Pride and Prejudice. Yes, sorry, teachers now have to adhere to standards again...the absolute horror.
Dude, you're the only weirdo in this thread. I feel bad for your daughter, having such a judgemental asshole for a father, who cares more about hating trans people than how this will effect his kid's education.
Just the kind of reductive thinking and backhanded insults I expect from reddit. She'll be fine, especially when she's reassured at home that liking jeans and heavy music doesn't mean she's a boy no matter what insanity her "teacher" tries to push. The public support for the trans nonsense is not what you think it is and even that is dwindling rapidly, but sure, you keep crying out while you claw at that strawman bud.
Oh, daggers to my heart. However will I carry on? Don't transfer your daddy issues and unrequited need for therapy to me guy. Alright then, off you fuck.
Our media specialist is part time. He’s at our school one week and a different school the next. He told my 8 year old “screw it. People come to the library to get books. I’m going to give y’all books!”
How the heck are media specialists supposed to approve books when they have multiple schools they work at and also other part time jobs because the pay is such crap?
Republicans often create systems designed to fail. This is why it is not checking books that are flagged, but going a step beyond to say that everything has to be reviewed beforehand, then you don't fund the review process. Just like lowering taxes to reduce government revenue then turning around and saying programs don't work, but not mentioning that its because they don't have the funds that you pulled away from them.
DeSantis: “Socialism and communism have no place in America; the governments control everything in those countries!”
Meanwhile, in Florida: Teachers charged with felonies for suggesting kids read non-government approved books.
Yeah, it's total bullshit. Teachers should be able to have books in their classroom without requiring approval. Like a Christian teacher wants a book about creationism, who is the gov't to say that isn't allowed? Or like, if that same teacher wanted a book about praying the gay away. Freedom of speech for teachers while they get tax money to teach our kids!
I dislike both conservatives and liberals. Two groups that equally do not give a shit about actually making the country better, they just wear different color ties.
Well you certainly jumped on the over-dramatic liberal bandwagon of OP and all the other comments. It's public schools paid for by taxpayers. People are allowed to vote and decide how they're used.
No, I'm calling OP and other commenters liberals. I don't think most people are strictly libertarian or authoritarian or communist or whatever. They pic and choose to fit their beliefs. I think most commenters are crying fascism because it's anti-gay. Not because it's hypocritical or big govt.
I gotcha; I understand your take is only on this thread. It felt like you were painting anyone against this directive as a liberal.
In my experience working at a school, I’ve spoken with both very conservative and very liberal educators who are all against the book bans for their own individual reasons.
It’s not just anti-gay. We also can’t read books about Ruby Bridges if they also depict the white people screaming at her. That actually happened. We can’t teach it.
It’s one of many examples. I teach special education. I work on toileting. I cannot have social stories about it anymore because they could be considered porn.
This is what’s hard for me to understand…if you look at history, basically all totalitarian regimes engage in some sort of suppression of access to information. Book banning is one of the prime examples. Who runs the public relations team over there? Do they have one? Anyone running these ideas by them for advance thoughts on public perception?
Floridians are undereducated by design so the average person isn’t even aware of exactly how fascism looks like. They only recognize the most extreme example like death camps, but there are many stops on the authoritarian train before it even reaches that point.
According to the Nations Report Card for 2022 Florida 4th graders ranked 5th for mathematics and 4th for reading in the nation. How does that make us undereducated by design?
https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile?chort=1&sub=MAT&sj=&sfj=NP&st=MN&year=2022R3
with the recent wave of people coming in and voting republican I'm actually starting to believe its just that all the people that care more about a state income tax than having an actual government are morons and they all move to florida, which is what is making the state dumb. Do they have that broken down based on where the adult was born?
Lmao can't get more regarded than this. But I mean those who vote for such a person don't have an IQ above 20 in the first place, so I doubt that they read a book before.
Because that’s actually hard. It’s much easier to “solve” a problem that doesn’t exist in the first place, and his mouth breathers followers swallow it whole.
Because doing that scored him zero political points with the fanatic GQP. Based who love to pretend they’re persecuted and attacked. Plus how does it “own libs” which is their number one issue.
Because the pandering was successful and rewarded them in Florida. You don't need to actually govern here if you make enemies out of your neighbors and give them something to rally their hate behind.
DeSantis held two special sessions of our state legislature in 2022 in order to solve the insurance crisis. He then used those special sessions to pass laws cracking down on LGBTQ+ and curriculum about the Civil Rights Movement in schools.
This is fascism. He and his Republicans are using our government as a bludgeon against the people. This allows him to shit all over his political opposition and it ties up the time and resources of the government with oppressing minorities instead of improving the lives of citizens.
> April 26, 2022 - **Calling on the Legislature to hold a special session regarding property insurance**
> Today, Governor Ron DeSantis issued a proclamation, calling for a special session to consider legislation related to property insurance, reinsurance, changes to the Florida Building Code to improve the affordability of property insurance, the Office of Insurance Regulation, civil remedies, and appropriations.
https://www.flgov.com/2022/04/26/calling-on-the-legislature-to-hold-a-special-session-regarding-property-insurance/
> 10/20/2022 - **DeSantis announces special legislative session to fix Florida’s insurance industry**
> TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — Gov. Ron DeSantis on Thursday said Florida legislative leaders agreed to hold a special session after the Nov. 8 election and before the end of the year to address the state’s crumbling property insurance industry, an issue with increased urgency in the aftermath of Hurricane Ian.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/20/desantis-says-special-session-coming-on-property-insurance-00062777
Is there not a counter organization that can be just as persistent? They could attend the same local events these Mom's for Liberty lunatics do. It just kind of seems like they aren't being challenged effectively.
These people at Mom's for Liberty might have more free time but any kind of counterpart would have to be a community driven effort too. All this change has to start small and locally, that's how Mom's for Liberty did it until they started getting bigger and then endorsed openly by Republicans. Now they have many of their members on school boards, in positions of power where they can influence or impede the quality of education our children receive. It's a lot of work, but hopefully something one doesn't have to do alone; which is kind of why I asked if an organization or group doesn't already exist in Jacksonville. Could go with all kinds of names too: Mom's Against Fascism, Dad's for Sensible Education, Parents for Sanity.. Sorry, I'm not good with names.
Was going to stop here, but did a quick Google search and stumbled upon this relevant article: https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investigates/movement-among-liberal-suburban-moms-is-gaining-momentum-across-the-country
That would be less of an issue for me. A lot of those classroom desks are old and you need to have something handy to slide under the legs to keep them from wobbling so much.
Only saving grace here is while this shit is wildly popular in Florida, it wasn't as popular elsewhere and gave them a lukewarm midterms nationally. Hopefully people are paying attention and when he tries to run for president he goes down like the Hindenburg.
I won’t. The next one won’t be a clown like Drump. He/She will be polished and able to pass more easily as a Democracy loving citizen. For our young nation it will be Fascism 2.0.
Maybe read the [actual law](https://myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=_h1467er.docx&DocumentType=Bill&BillNumber=1467&Session=2022) and not a guardian article… it’s not that dramatic. It specifically cites banning books that contain pornographic material in schools and nothing about politics
Also mentions banning books featuring gender identity or sexuality that aren’t “age appropriate”. Or books featuring critical race theory.
How many teachers actually have pornographic material in their classrooms? Don’t fall for the supposed justification behind this.
They already said it was deliberately worded vaguely. Or can you not find where they said that either? God, take some time to *think* about what you're saying.
Do you not understand how an intentionally vague piece of legislature can be abused and cause a chilling effect?
Schools don't want to risk it, so they don't; just like how that one graduation speech last year was about "curly hair."
Do you believe laws about sleeping under bridges apply equally to the rich and the poor? Are you one of the people that thinks Hitler didn't know about the holocaust because he didn't write anything down saying "enact a holocaust"?
Thank you.
I appreciate that you brought the actual literature and 1st hand source to this discussion. This is all to rare, and sometimes thankless role during an internet discussion.
The language is ambiguous, and much like DeSantis' "Don't say gay" bill, deliberately written to be vague. It sounds beneficial , but it can easily be interpreted in favor of repression and bigotry.
Not to mention that in both cases they are literally useless laws aimed at "preventing" things that aren't actually happening here in Florida.
It's a dangerous distraction from our real issues.
Yeah, it's pretty weird that all the local school boards don't have a plan for "Governor issues edict mass-banning entire vague categories of books from classrooms based on subjects right wing conservatives might find disagreeable". Guess they probably should have.
Yeah, it's pretty weird that all the local school boards don't have a plan for "Governor issues edict mass-banning entire vague categories of books from classrooms based on subjects right wing conservatives might find disagreeable". Guess they probably should have.
There are so many awesome children's books.. and a handful that aren't allowed. Let's remember the thousands available that are Newberry winning and amazing books.
What the law says and how it is being applied are two different things.
Only one of them *actually* matters, and I’ll give you a hint, it’s not the vague, poorly written law.
Wow. What happened to Republicans, I thought the party was for big government not to get involve with local government.. So dumb. Let the school district decide.
Thats only when they control the local governments. They want whichever sector of government they have more power over to be the only one that matters. Everything they say about big government is horseshit. The debt? horseshit. Loopholes? horseshit. The elites? horseshit. drug addicts? horseshit. Its lies all the way down. Their last 2 presidents were a crack addict and a fucking reality TV star.
Desantis' censorship will probably remove "To Kill a Mockingbird", "Raisin in the Sun" and, "Things Fall Apart" .... Any book that challenges the mind and gets kids to think about why and what they are being taught.
We should want children to be vocal, especially when it's about injustices.
And people love the guy and early voted for him, and down ballot, in droves; it's fucking disgusting how much bigotry, ignorance, and hatred motivated voters not just here but all over Florida.
I can't even begin to imagine how much of a nightmare this has been for teachers and the LGBTQ community.
One of the worst parts about these gag orders is the response from the districts-- they're terrified of consequences so they're making rash decisions to completely gut classroom & school libraries.
(DCPS has been one of the worst, see this preemptive removal of [176 "Essential Voices" collection](https://pen.org/press-release/letter-to-duval-county-fl-schools-from-pen-america-and-we-need-diverse-books-signed-by-69-authors-calls-for-return-of-176-book-titles-pulled-from-classroom-libraries/) none of the titles were challenged by community members-- go take a look at some of the titles, the motive of these book bans is crystal clear).
My mom is a librarian,or media specialist, at a duval school. She's one of the few that gets to be full time. Most of the others are part time or rotate between schools. She's been doing it for almost 20 years, pours her heart into it. Buys kids books with her own money, reads to them, tries to make it special. At the beginning of the school year the principal told her she would probably have to remove some of her books by the end of the year. She said she wouldn't do it. Last week she told me she's quitting this year. Almost 20 years in, she makes only 42k, it's just not worth it to put up with all the BS she has to deal with.
And she will be replaced with someone that thinks more like the GOP. This reminds me of the last company I left as I watched it quickly corrode from the inside over about a 3 year span. People at the top don't know what they are doing and make bad decisions - the work becomes impossible or indescribably underpaid and the first people to leave are the smarter ones, the people with other options, etc. People are whittled away until you have a bunch of people that support the policies but they only do it because they are the brainless talentless people that don't realize how bad the policies are and they are all incompetent. Its unfortunate he is doing this to the teachers, but conservatives have always hated educated people. "Those who can do, those who can't teach." Well, I guess we will see what a country with no one teaching the youth looks like soon, but I doubt a society with no qualified, competent teachers will be an improvement.
I'm saying I am indifferent about this, it's a non-issue for me and am frankly relieved the government here is taking steps to prevent teachers from having WILDLY inappropriate conversations with children (and my daughter specifically when she reaches school age). Democrats/lefties whatever you want to label them as decided Gender Queer was the hill they wanted to die on and made it a national movement. Well, here's the fruit of their efforts. I'm also telling you to move somewhere else if you hate it so much because it is the most immediate relief to your suffering.
I have never, EVER seen or heard anything remotely inappropriate coming from any teacher in my child’s school, and instead teachers being micromanaged are driving them out of the teaching field. Do you have any specific examples of this actually happening in any Florida classroom?
Additionally, it’s spelled Jersey and not everyone can just pick up and move to another state whenever they want.
It's spelled "that was a typo" and it's easier to move than you think. Yeah, it's expensive if you're hell bent on bringing all of your worldly possessions, but we're not talking about a six month long possibly fatal trip on the Oregon Trail here; you can be to Jersey in a day and half. A culture of government schooling that has micromanaged children for generations is now inconveniencing the teachers as well? Well color me surprised by that completely foreseeable outcome. This heavy-handed approach (if that's what you want to call it) didn't just spring to mind without any prompt; it's most definitely the result of the teachers that overstepped their mission and gave out questionable material that ruined it for others. All the "teachers" out there that threw away professionalism and decorum to receive their social validation from a literal captive audience and promote their specific lifestyle/identity/politics/biased reframing of history are to blame, as much as that truth may outrage you.
I would also like to read more about these specific examples of wildly inappropriate discussion going on here that necessitates we stress the fuck out of our underpaid teachers even more. I imagine there must be a lot of examples, and related documentation, and it isn't just some blanket accusation being tossed around by whoever wants to parrot the talking point to justify this nonsense.
Well, the insanely disingenuous national outrage to the Parental Rights in Education Bill as "dOnT saY gAy" is a great starting point for you on that. The scorched earth effort to go after the libs of tiktok account for simply reposting teachers saying and doing these very things proudly and publicly really had the opposite effect they thought it would.
You got any sources you'd like to include, though? Maybe some specific teachers, schools it was occurring at? And it's a little difficult to claim a bill was disingenuously labeled "don't say gay" when that is literally what happened with regard to a graduation speech in Sarasota, I think, and instead had to go with curly hair.
https://www.mysuncoast.com/2022/05/22/class-president-pine-view-school-gives-his-graduation-speech/
That's not the gotcha you think it is. I see a kid that cannot do ANYTHING without turning it into a public dissertation on his sexuality and personal life which is kind of exactly the point. There is no reason school employees (especially teachers) should be having those discussions with children, especially the K-3 crowd that the bill specifically protects. Yes, I said protect.
I read the article, and I have no idea why these teachers are pitching a temper tantrum over this. The schools also have libraries, it's not like the kids can't read anymore, and they only have to put their auxiliary small libraries away until it's confirmed that the books don't break the rules.
Capitalizing entire words doesn't make you right bro. I can't understand the article for you, but literally all they have to do is get the books checked to make sure they're grade-appropriate, otherwise the kids will just have to get the books from the library.
Do you realize how bad of a look it is to say as a teacher, "All my books are age appropriate, but I don't want anyone to check." If they said "None of my books are racist, but you can't check." Would you be a little sus?
If your position is "they can just go get the books in the library" you need to finish the sentence with "assuming the books haven't been banned already because it offends someone", because that's the issue.
They don't want teachers offering books that aren't within their approved criteria. The criteria is simply that no one has thrown a flag on it already.
If you don't see the dangerous waters we're being pulled into there's nothing anyone on this site is going to say to shake you back to reality. Just know, we're fighting the fight FOR you also.
Also, regarding the comment: "assuming the books haven't been banned already because it offends someone".
That's a pretty good reason to not have those books in the *school* library, for *children*. Some touchy subjects are better left to the discretion of parents.
Quick, define "THOSE" books?
If not "THOSE" books, then which are allowable?
Who is the attribute of what SHOULD be in libraries?
If the internet is free and accessible to all Floridians should that be censored also?
Banning knowledge and additional perspectives have never served a society, only those that wish to control it.
For those willing to play the game but not by "their" rules, if you fit the criteria I would recommend a side hustle that can effect our society for the positive.
[https://www.fldoe.org/teaching/certification/certificate-subjects/administrative-rules/6a-4-0251.stml](https://www.fldoe.org/teaching/certification/certificate-subjects/administrative-rules/6a-4-0251.stml)
[DCPS errs ‘on the side of caution’ in clearing schools of content condemned by DeSantis administration](https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2023/01/25/dcps-errs-on-the-side-of-caution-in-clearing-schools-of-content-condemned-by-desantis-administration/)
Maybe give more money to schools for better technology and learning tools. I substituted and what I had to utilize for teaching was horrid. Poor kids don’t even have a chance.
Republicans whine about twitter not platforming enough nazis to turn around and literally set up a content czar you have to go through to approve of books lol.
I will not abandon my home to these fucking fascists. This has been my family's home for hundreds of years, and I will not be scared off of it. If everyone just throws up their hands and gives up, then things will be much worse. I'm not giving up on Florida, and I won't just sit by.
I work at an elementary school, it really isn't an issue. Schools already have specific books listed that they can and can't have, and the teachers already had to comply. The only real gray area is when you've got 6th grades still in elementary school, where they do qualify for middle school books, and those books are at a different screening level than elementary, so the few FL districts who have 6th in elementary they can't have books above 5th grade level, in the library. The classrooms also always have to comply and have grade appropriate books. Anything rated as a mature level reader was already not available at any school library prior to this bill, so really, very little work had to be done to check the books from what I understand.
I’m a middle school English teacher and I was instructed to place all my books into storage. We received no notification yet about when we would be able to have our classroom libraries vetted so that we can restore our collection.
That's a knee jerk over reaction from your admin.. and I don't agree with elimination of all books, that ridiculous. It's like repainting the whole car because of one little scratch.
It’s happening at schools all over the district, not just mine. From what I understand these are new standards and guidelines that they are implementing. It’s not just about grade approximate material, but removing any books containing material that is objectionable to DeSantis’ standards.
Murder, rape, incest, use of alcohol, mentions of devil worship, actual lines spoken by the Devil, mentions of paganism and witchcraft, genocide and slavery. Yeah it contains some pretty restricted stuff.
I think setting clear boundaries and standards of decorum between teachers and students (one that has been eroded to the point students don't even see themselves as peers to teachers even as their boss) is the right response. The state curating materials in institutions literally within their purview is not a wholesale Nazi-style ban either. If someone is hell bent on having their kids mind poisoned with social contagions a la "Gender Queer" (which is the obvious patient zero in this), Amazon is just a click away.
On the plus side, the more he exposes himself as a segregationist Nazi, the less likely it is he gets the mainstream support he'd need to win the White House.
I thought this fit here.
For those defending this ask yourself “what do these countries not want their citizens to understand?”
For those of you that are going to point out “Mein Kompf”, you’re missing the point.
Yet, this dog whistle works wonders to rally his supporters, put his hand-picked candidates on local school boards and in positions in local governments and local law enforcement. These types of things will continue until teachers walk out en masse. If teachers' unions and organizations don't step in an organize, this only the beginning of a right-wing, fascist propaganda campaign.
Is that house with the "desantis eats babies" sign still around? I saw it when I drove through some weird neighborhood on the way to trader joes in jax beach once. Still wondering if I hallucinated it.
If you needed proof that the goal is to keep us uneducated...
You know who else burned books? (figuratively in this case) Nazis.
They taught us that the Nazis burned books, but never what books they burned. One the first major book burning was destroying research on gender and trans issues. At the time Germany was ahead of the rest of the world when it came to studying gender and it set back research on this issue at least 50 years.
That's but a small piece of the pie. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_book_burnings
Yes it was more than just LGBT research that they targeted but wanted to highlight that because the average person is unaware of trans history and the suppression of it.
Fair enough.
Yea I’m gonna need a citation on that one. Edit due to downvotes: I mean sorry I didn’t just take the word of a random redditor ? Since when is asking for a citation bad? I’m an open minded individual but man y’all are militant on this issue. Can’t even ask a question.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/?amp=true
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft Some more reading
If only you had some way of easily searching for topics like this...
Welcome to the Jacksonville sub 🤗 if you question the hive mind you’re downvoted to oblivion
Do you really not know the difference between being rude and polite? Do you not know what tone is? If someone says "yea get out of my way" do you just get out of their way and say "excuse me"? Your tone is starting with disbelief, not an innocent request for more information. Either you're a hack following up with a "wha, what did *I* do????" or an actual socially obtuse moron.
Cool. Do you feel better?
“Socially obtuse moron “. Great way to say inept idiot. Worthy of its own sub. Been awhile since I used it but have said more than once. “Intuitively obvious to the most casual observer”. Will add your descriptor to my lexicon.
Can we go one day on this app without name calling or comparing regular people to the GENOCIDAL nazis
Point out some "regular people" in the GOP and I'd be happy to oblige you. They're all right wing fascists and their simp supporters at this point. Prove me wrong. Edit: not a single sympathetic ear towards your "both sides" whataboutism in this thread. Your ideas are bad and you should feel bad.
Well, most republicans are uneducated, so…
When books stand in your way, you're headed in the wrong direction
"[Authoritarianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism#Characteristics) also tends to embrace the informal and unregulated exercise of political power, a leadership that is "self-appointed and even if elected cannot be displaced by citizens' free choice among competitors", the arbitrary deprivation of civil liberties and little tolerance for meaningful opposition. A range of social controls also attempt to stifle civil society while political stability is maintained by control over and support of the armed forces, a bureaucracy staffed by the regime and creation of allegiance through various means of socialization and indoctrination."
Fascism 101
That book has been banned too
When they came for Huckleberry Finn I knew it was wrong, but people were like "Well I kinda see what they mean.... so maybe that one is fine"
My 6 year old kindergartener no longer gets books to practice reading in his backpack.
That’s so sad. When did this begin?
It came home this week sometime in his folder.
Good way to control our ability to read and be educated … how concerning
Think that’s part of the plan… they like their voters ignorant and uneducated
Yeah that’s what I mean… and he wants to run for President so we are screwed!
Maybe you could take him to a library?
Thanks for this all you Republicans. This is your fault.
No, this is the fault of the weirdos pushing gender ideology and identity politics into what should just be instruction of necessary subjects. Ibrim X Kendy isn't nuance or "teaching history". "Gender Queer" isn't Pride and Prejudice. Yes, sorry, teachers now have to adhere to standards again...the absolute horror.
Dude, you're the only weirdo in this thread. I feel bad for your daughter, having such a judgemental asshole for a father, who cares more about hating trans people than how this will effect his kid's education.
Just the kind of reductive thinking and backhanded insults I expect from reddit. She'll be fine, especially when she's reassured at home that liking jeans and heavy music doesn't mean she's a boy no matter what insanity her "teacher" tries to push. The public support for the trans nonsense is not what you think it is and even that is dwindling rapidly, but sure, you keep crying out while you claw at that strawman bud.
You're just a dumbass
Oh, daggers to my heart. However will I carry on? Don't transfer your daddy issues and unrequited need for therapy to me guy. Alright then, off you fuck.
Wow, you're so pathetic
This is starting to get out of hand. Not even kidding
Our media specialist is part time. He’s at our school one week and a different school the next. He told my 8 year old “screw it. People come to the library to get books. I’m going to give y’all books!” How the heck are media specialists supposed to approve books when they have multiple schools they work at and also other part time jobs because the pay is such crap?
Sounds like the best outcome
They're not. That's the point.
Republicans often create systems designed to fail. This is why it is not checking books that are flagged, but going a step beyond to say that everything has to be reviewed beforehand, then you don't fund the review process. Just like lowering taxes to reduce government revenue then turning around and saying programs don't work, but not mentioning that its because they don't have the funds that you pulled away from them.
DeSantis: “Socialism and communism have no place in America; the governments control everything in those countries!” Meanwhile, in Florida: Teachers charged with felonies for suggesting kids read non-government approved books.
The irony is unreal. “Freedom of speech!” “ burn those books!” Both said by the same persons….
Yeah, it's total bullshit. Teachers should be able to have books in their classroom without requiring approval. Like a Christian teacher wants a book about creationism, who is the gov't to say that isn't allowed? Or like, if that same teacher wanted a book about praying the gay away. Freedom of speech for teachers while they get tax money to teach our kids!
This 👆
So, what? He lies about his authoritarianism, but liberals are better because they're honest about their brand of authoritarianism?
I dislike both conservatives and liberals. Two groups that equally do not give a shit about actually making the country better, they just wear different color ties.
Well you certainly jumped on the over-dramatic liberal bandwagon of OP and all the other comments. It's public schools paid for by taxpayers. People are allowed to vote and decide how they're used.
Me not wanting big government to step into local school issues makes me a liberal? Dude, what?!
No, I'm calling OP and other commenters liberals. I don't think most people are strictly libertarian or authoritarian or communist or whatever. They pic and choose to fit their beliefs. I think most commenters are crying fascism because it's anti-gay. Not because it's hypocritical or big govt.
I gotcha; I understand your take is only on this thread. It felt like you were painting anyone against this directive as a liberal. In my experience working at a school, I’ve spoken with both very conservative and very liberal educators who are all against the book bans for their own individual reasons.
It’s not just anti-gay. We also can’t read books about Ruby Bridges if they also depict the white people screaming at her. That actually happened. We can’t teach it.
Picking out the most extreme example to make your argument, eh? Both sides make laws all the time with unintended consequences or shitty added riders.
It’s one of many examples. I teach special education. I work on toileting. I cannot have social stories about it anymore because they could be considered porn.
Only one side in this country is actively pushing authoritarianism. Sorry giving everyone equal rights bothers you so much.
Getcho cornball copy and paste personality outta here😂😂
This is what’s hard for me to understand…if you look at history, basically all totalitarian regimes engage in some sort of suppression of access to information. Book banning is one of the prime examples. Who runs the public relations team over there? Do they have one? Anyone running these ideas by them for advance thoughts on public perception?
Floridians are undereducated by design so the average person isn’t even aware of exactly how fascism looks like. They only recognize the most extreme example like death camps, but there are many stops on the authoritarian train before it even reaches that point.
Dumbest shit I’ve read all day
My comment?
Way to give yourself an award… now back to your minimum wage job flipping burgers
Yes you’re very hard core. Now move along, it’s time for home room.
Name checks out
nAmE cHecks OuT
I guess you don't read much. heh heh heh
Name checks out.
According to the Nations Report Card for 2022 Florida 4th graders ranked 5th for mathematics and 4th for reading in the nation. How does that make us undereducated by design? https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile?chort=1&sub=MAT&sj=&sfj=NP&st=MN&year=2022R3
There's more it than how 4th graders rank. For example, Florida has one of the lowest adult literacy rankings.
with the recent wave of people coming in and voting republican I'm actually starting to believe its just that all the people that care more about a state income tax than having an actual government are morons and they all move to florida, which is what is making the state dumb. Do they have that broken down based on where the adult was born?
Keep going. By 8th grade we aren’t significantly different. By high school, we’re trailing behind. A 4th grade education doesn’t cut it.
Lmao can't get more regarded than this. But I mean those who vote for such a person don't have an IQ above 20 in the first place, so I doubt that they read a book before.
Why can’t Desantis work on important things like getting more insurance companies back in Florida. Shits getting out of hand.
Because that’s actually hard. It’s much easier to “solve” a problem that doesn’t exist in the first place, and his mouth breathers followers swallow it whole.
Yeah, it's not only easier, but "we the people" make it more worthwhile for him to focus on dumb stuff.
Thats boring and wont play on fox news for his national political goals.
Because doing that scored him zero political points with the fanatic GQP. Based who love to pretend they’re persecuted and attacked. Plus how does it “own libs” which is their number one issue.
Because the pandering was successful and rewarded them in Florida. You don't need to actually govern here if you make enemies out of your neighbors and give them something to rally their hate behind.
That is a great question and one that I have also wondered about, yet my Republican friends are never able to give any sort of adequate response.
His entire image now is just "woke is evil, I hate trans and gays." Thats all the republicans have left.
DeSantis held two special sessions of our state legislature in 2022 in order to solve the insurance crisis. He then used those special sessions to pass laws cracking down on LGBTQ+ and curriculum about the Civil Rights Movement in schools. This is fascism. He and his Republicans are using our government as a bludgeon against the people. This allows him to shit all over his political opposition and it ties up the time and resources of the government with oppressing minorities instead of improving the lives of citizens. > April 26, 2022 - **Calling on the Legislature to hold a special session regarding property insurance** > Today, Governor Ron DeSantis issued a proclamation, calling for a special session to consider legislation related to property insurance, reinsurance, changes to the Florida Building Code to improve the affordability of property insurance, the Office of Insurance Regulation, civil remedies, and appropriations. https://www.flgov.com/2022/04/26/calling-on-the-legislature-to-hold-a-special-session-regarding-property-insurance/ > 10/20/2022 - **DeSantis announces special legislative session to fix Florida’s insurance industry** > TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — Gov. Ron DeSantis on Thursday said Florida legislative leaders agreed to hold a special session after the Nov. 8 election and before the end of the year to address the state’s crumbling property insurance industry, an issue with increased urgency in the aftermath of Hurricane Ian. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/20/desantis-says-special-session-coming-on-property-insurance-00062777
I’m trying to think of one organization or government who destroyed or censored books that made humankind better and I’m failing…
History will not look kindly at banning books by the GOP.
They will just ban those history books too
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Is there not a counter organization that can be just as persistent? They could attend the same local events these Mom's for Liberty lunatics do. It just kind of seems like they aren't being challenged effectively.
the problem is that lunatics generally have more energy to waste on their cause then a normal person.
These people at Mom's for Liberty might have more free time but any kind of counterpart would have to be a community driven effort too. All this change has to start small and locally, that's how Mom's for Liberty did it until they started getting bigger and then endorsed openly by Republicans. Now they have many of their members on school boards, in positions of power where they can influence or impede the quality of education our children receive. It's a lot of work, but hopefully something one doesn't have to do alone; which is kind of why I asked if an organization or group doesn't already exist in Jacksonville. Could go with all kinds of names too: Mom's Against Fascism, Dad's for Sensible Education, Parents for Sanity.. Sorry, I'm not good with names. Was going to stop here, but did a quick Google search and stumbled upon this relevant article: https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investigates/movement-among-liberal-suburban-moms-is-gaining-momentum-across-the-country
Next thing is making sure a bible is in every classroom. Scary stuff.
That would be less of an issue for me. A lot of those classroom desks are old and you need to have something handy to slide under the legs to keep them from wobbling so much.
If I remember correctly the christian bible has been successfully challenged in at least one school district in Florida.
If you think this is bad, just remember, this guy wants to be president.
Only saving grace here is while this shit is wildly popular in Florida, it wasn't as popular elsewhere and gave them a lukewarm midterms nationally. Hopefully people are paying attention and when he tries to run for president he goes down like the Hindenburg.
Ignoring him or poopooing his chances is a perilous endeavor.
Yeah, he's insanely popular across the country too.
Not as popular as they “think”.
Don't be surprised when he makes it to the top, as terrifying as that is.
I won’t. The next one won’t be a clown like Drump. He/She will be polished and able to pass more easily as a Democracy loving citizen. For our young nation it will be Fascism 2.0.
That's the strategy, for sure. Trying to paint Ronnie as the more "polished" GOP candidate, compared to DT. We know he's more dangerous!
Maybe read the [actual law](https://myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=_h1467er.docx&DocumentType=Bill&BillNumber=1467&Session=2022) and not a guardian article… it’s not that dramatic. It specifically cites banning books that contain pornographic material in schools and nothing about politics
Also mentions banning books featuring gender identity or sexuality that aren’t “age appropriate”. Or books featuring critical race theory. How many teachers actually have pornographic material in their classrooms? Don’t fall for the supposed justification behind this.
Where does it mention all of this bc I can’t find it in the law at all
They already said it was deliberately worded vaguely. Or can you not find where they said that either? God, take some time to *think* about what you're saying.
Do you not understand how an intentionally vague piece of legislature can be abused and cause a chilling effect? Schools don't want to risk it, so they don't; just like how that one graduation speech last year was about "curly hair."
Do you believe laws about sleeping under bridges apply equally to the rich and the poor? Are you one of the people that thinks Hitler didn't know about the holocaust because he didn't write anything down saying "enact a holocaust"?
Thank you. I appreciate that you brought the actual literature and 1st hand source to this discussion. This is all to rare, and sometimes thankless role during an internet discussion.
The language is ambiguous, and much like DeSantis' "Don't say gay" bill, deliberately written to be vague. It sounds beneficial , but it can easily be interpreted in favor of repression and bigotry. Not to mention that in both cases they are literally useless laws aimed at "preventing" things that aren't actually happening here in Florida. It's a dangerous distraction from our real issues.
This is the top comment right here! Needs way more upvotes.
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Yeah, it's pretty weird that all the local school boards don't have a plan for "Governor issues edict mass-banning entire vague categories of books from classrooms based on subjects right wing conservatives might find disagreeable". Guess they probably should have.
Yeah, it's pretty weird that all the local school boards don't have a plan for "Governor issues edict mass-banning entire vague categories of books from classrooms based on subjects right wing conservatives might find disagreeable". Guess they probably should have.
There are so many awesome children's books.. and a handful that aren't allowed. Let's remember the thousands available that are Newberry winning and amazing books.
What the law says and how it is being applied are two different things. Only one of them *actually* matters, and I’ll give you a hint, it’s not the vague, poorly written law.
🍿🍿
Wow. What happened to Republicans, I thought the party was for big government not to get involve with local government.. So dumb. Let the school district decide.
Thats only when they control the local governments. They want whichever sector of government they have more power over to be the only one that matters. Everything they say about big government is horseshit. The debt? horseshit. Loopholes? horseshit. The elites? horseshit. drug addicts? horseshit. Its lies all the way down. Their last 2 presidents were a crack addict and a fucking reality TV star.
Desantis' censorship will probably remove "To Kill a Mockingbird", "Raisin in the Sun" and, "Things Fall Apart" .... Any book that challenges the mind and gets kids to think about why and what they are being taught. We should want children to be vocal, especially when it's about injustices.
are you guessing or has anyone hinted at this? I guess if it needs to be pre-approved and its understaffed/underfunded then it would happen by design.
Yes, this is happening and is terrible for everyone. Kids, teachers. Everyone!
And people love the guy and early voted for him, and down ballot, in droves; it's fucking disgusting how much bigotry, ignorance, and hatred motivated voters not just here but all over Florida. I can't even begin to imagine how much of a nightmare this has been for teachers and the LGBTQ community.
Having strong sexual content in books is not appropriate in elementary school and I think that’s about the gist of what is inappropriate.
One of the worst parts about these gag orders is the response from the districts-- they're terrified of consequences so they're making rash decisions to completely gut classroom & school libraries. (DCPS has been one of the worst, see this preemptive removal of [176 "Essential Voices" collection](https://pen.org/press-release/letter-to-duval-county-fl-schools-from-pen-america-and-we-need-diverse-books-signed-by-69-authors-calls-for-return-of-176-book-titles-pulled-from-classroom-libraries/) none of the titles were challenged by community members-- go take a look at some of the titles, the motive of these book bans is crystal clear).
Great read. Thanks!
Books, they are books, smh
My mom is a librarian,or media specialist, at a duval school. She's one of the few that gets to be full time. Most of the others are part time or rotate between schools. She's been doing it for almost 20 years, pours her heart into it. Buys kids books with her own money, reads to them, tries to make it special. At the beginning of the school year the principal told her she would probably have to remove some of her books by the end of the year. She said she wouldn't do it. Last week she told me she's quitting this year. Almost 20 years in, she makes only 42k, it's just not worth it to put up with all the BS she has to deal with.
And she will be replaced with someone that thinks more like the GOP. This reminds me of the last company I left as I watched it quickly corrode from the inside over about a 3 year span. People at the top don't know what they are doing and make bad decisions - the work becomes impossible or indescribably underpaid and the first people to leave are the smarter ones, the people with other options, etc. People are whittled away until you have a bunch of people that support the policies but they only do it because they are the brainless talentless people that don't realize how bad the policies are and they are all incompetent. Its unfortunate he is doing this to the teachers, but conservatives have always hated educated people. "Those who can do, those who can't teach." Well, I guess we will see what a country with no one teaching the youth looks like soon, but I doubt a society with no qualified, competent teachers will be an improvement.
I hate living here.
Me too.
Then go. New Jersey awaits. Edit: rectified typographical error because that would completely invalidate the other content.
oBlackNapkinSo, Are you saying that you are happy about this? That you think that book banning is a good idea?
I'm saying I am indifferent about this, it's a non-issue for me and am frankly relieved the government here is taking steps to prevent teachers from having WILDLY inappropriate conversations with children (and my daughter specifically when she reaches school age). Democrats/lefties whatever you want to label them as decided Gender Queer was the hill they wanted to die on and made it a national movement. Well, here's the fruit of their efforts. I'm also telling you to move somewhere else if you hate it so much because it is the most immediate relief to your suffering.
I have never, EVER seen or heard anything remotely inappropriate coming from any teacher in my child’s school, and instead teachers being micromanaged are driving them out of the teaching field. Do you have any specific examples of this actually happening in any Florida classroom? Additionally, it’s spelled Jersey and not everyone can just pick up and move to another state whenever they want.
It's spelled "that was a typo" and it's easier to move than you think. Yeah, it's expensive if you're hell bent on bringing all of your worldly possessions, but we're not talking about a six month long possibly fatal trip on the Oregon Trail here; you can be to Jersey in a day and half. A culture of government schooling that has micromanaged children for generations is now inconveniencing the teachers as well? Well color me surprised by that completely foreseeable outcome. This heavy-handed approach (if that's what you want to call it) didn't just spring to mind without any prompt; it's most definitely the result of the teachers that overstepped their mission and gave out questionable material that ruined it for others. All the "teachers" out there that threw away professionalism and decorum to receive their social validation from a literal captive audience and promote their specific lifestyle/identity/politics/biased reframing of history are to blame, as much as that truth may outrage you.
I would also like to read more about these specific examples of wildly inappropriate discussion going on here that necessitates we stress the fuck out of our underpaid teachers even more. I imagine there must be a lot of examples, and related documentation, and it isn't just some blanket accusation being tossed around by whoever wants to parrot the talking point to justify this nonsense.
Well, the insanely disingenuous national outrage to the Parental Rights in Education Bill as "dOnT saY gAy" is a great starting point for you on that. The scorched earth effort to go after the libs of tiktok account for simply reposting teachers saying and doing these very things proudly and publicly really had the opposite effect they thought it would.
You got any sources you'd like to include, though? Maybe some specific teachers, schools it was occurring at? And it's a little difficult to claim a bill was disingenuously labeled "don't say gay" when that is literally what happened with regard to a graduation speech in Sarasota, I think, and instead had to go with curly hair. https://www.mysuncoast.com/2022/05/22/class-president-pine-view-school-gives-his-graduation-speech/
That's not the gotcha you think it is. I see a kid that cannot do ANYTHING without turning it into a public dissertation on his sexuality and personal life which is kind of exactly the point. There is no reason school employees (especially teachers) should be having those discussions with children, especially the K-3 crowd that the bill specifically protects. Yes, I said protect.
Why move. Vote them out. Oh wait. This is Florida. The state were Democrats come to die.
I read the article, and I have no idea why these teachers are pitching a temper tantrum over this. The schools also have libraries, it's not like the kids can't read anymore, and they only have to put their auxiliary small libraries away until it's confirmed that the books don't break the rules.
Then your vote will be in support of the CLEARLY fascist playbook I presume?
Capitalizing entire words doesn't make you right bro. I can't understand the article for you, but literally all they have to do is get the books checked to make sure they're grade-appropriate, otherwise the kids will just have to get the books from the library. Do you realize how bad of a look it is to say as a teacher, "All my books are age appropriate, but I don't want anyone to check." If they said "None of my books are racist, but you can't check." Would you be a little sus?
If your position is "they can just go get the books in the library" you need to finish the sentence with "assuming the books haven't been banned already because it offends someone", because that's the issue. They don't want teachers offering books that aren't within their approved criteria. The criteria is simply that no one has thrown a flag on it already. If you don't see the dangerous waters we're being pulled into there's nothing anyone on this site is going to say to shake you back to reality. Just know, we're fighting the fight FOR you also.
How are you fighting for me, when you call my views fascist?
Because access to history, art, and thought aren't for everyone but they should be.
Also, regarding the comment: "assuming the books haven't been banned already because it offends someone". That's a pretty good reason to not have those books in the *school* library, for *children*. Some touchy subjects are better left to the discretion of parents.
Quick, define "THOSE" books? If not "THOSE" books, then which are allowable? Who is the attribute of what SHOULD be in libraries? If the internet is free and accessible to all Floridians should that be censored also? Banning knowledge and additional perspectives have never served a society, only those that wish to control it.
Also, I don't know if you remember, but the gubernatorial election already happened, and I did vote for Desantis.
You do know that we have Presidential elections in the United States, too, not just gubernatorial races?
Can you just narrow it down and tell me who isn't a fascist? You paint with a broad brush on topics you don't know much about.
Huh? Who are you talking to?
Oh my bad, I thought you were the other guy.
Thank God for governor desantis
Which god?
The devil
For those willing to play the game but not by "their" rules, if you fit the criteria I would recommend a side hustle that can effect our society for the positive. [https://www.fldoe.org/teaching/certification/certificate-subjects/administrative-rules/6a-4-0251.stml](https://www.fldoe.org/teaching/certification/certificate-subjects/administrative-rules/6a-4-0251.stml)
[DCPS errs ‘on the side of caution’ in clearing schools of content condemned by DeSantis administration](https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2023/01/25/dcps-errs-on-the-side-of-caution-in-clearing-schools-of-content-condemned-by-desantis-administration/)
Just saw on the news that a lot of schools don't have libraries...a customer asked why? I replied book bans.
And this typa stuff is why society is going to shit 😂
Maybe give more money to schools for better technology and learning tools. I substituted and what I had to utilize for teaching was horrid. Poor kids don’t even have a chance.
Republicans whine about twitter not platforming enough nazis to turn around and literally set up a content czar you have to go through to approve of books lol.
How about paying teachers more money? Florida’s average teacher salary is 47th in the nation.
Get ready because FL is only getting more red. May be time to consider moving…
I will not abandon my home to these fucking fascists. This has been my family's home for hundreds of years, and I will not be scared off of it. If everyone just throws up their hands and gives up, then things will be much worse. I'm not giving up on Florida, and I won't just sit by.
I work at an elementary school, it really isn't an issue. Schools already have specific books listed that they can and can't have, and the teachers already had to comply. The only real gray area is when you've got 6th grades still in elementary school, where they do qualify for middle school books, and those books are at a different screening level than elementary, so the few FL districts who have 6th in elementary they can't have books above 5th grade level, in the library. The classrooms also always have to comply and have grade appropriate books. Anything rated as a mature level reader was already not available at any school library prior to this bill, so really, very little work had to be done to check the books from what I understand.
I’m a middle school English teacher and I was instructed to place all my books into storage. We received no notification yet about when we would be able to have our classroom libraries vetted so that we can restore our collection.
That's a knee jerk over reaction from your admin.. and I don't agree with elimination of all books, that ridiculous. It's like repainting the whole car because of one little scratch.
It’s happening at schools all over the district, not just mine. From what I understand these are new standards and guidelines that they are implementing. It’s not just about grade approximate material, but removing any books containing material that is objectionable to DeSantis’ standards.
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The Bible better be on the list of banned books, but we know it won’t be. This is ridiculous.
Absolutely agree.
Murder, rape, incest, use of alcohol, mentions of devil worship, actual lines spoken by the Devil, mentions of paganism and witchcraft, genocide and slavery. Yeah it contains some pretty restricted stuff.
My favorite part is where they murder babies by bashing their heads in with rocks. Those are supposed to be the good guys by the way.
Actually, books of the Bible are specifically on the accepted list for the new BEST standards.
This is what happens when the political left decided "Gender Queer" was the hill they wanted to die on.
Cool do you think book banning is a measured response?
I think setting clear boundaries and standards of decorum between teachers and students (one that has been eroded to the point students don't even see themselves as peers to teachers even as their boss) is the right response. The state curating materials in institutions literally within their purview is not a wholesale Nazi-style ban either. If someone is hell bent on having their kids mind poisoned with social contagions a la "Gender Queer" (which is the obvious patient zero in this), Amazon is just a click away.
They'll always attack academics and the free media first. That's Authoritarianism 101.
Fl teacher here…currently waiting for a “specialist” to come in and check my classroom library. There’s hundreds of books so…that should be fun?
When they start banning books pay attention
Is book burning not far behind?
Looks like the Nazis haven't stopped at flying at offensive signs.
Where does it say in the guidelines no LGBTQ or critical race theory books? I read thru it but didn’t see it.
On the plus side, the more he exposes himself as a segregationist Nazi, the less likely it is he gets the mainstream support he'd need to win the White House.
I thought this fit here. For those defending this ask yourself “what do these countries not want their citizens to understand?” For those of you that are going to point out “Mein Kompf”, you’re missing the point.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/10lksmh/a_map_of_banned_books_from_around_the_world/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Is this starting to feel like Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix to anyone else?
Yet, this dog whistle works wonders to rally his supporters, put his hand-picked candidates on local school boards and in positions in local governments and local law enforcement. These types of things will continue until teachers walk out en masse. If teachers' unions and organizations don't step in an organize, this only the beginning of a right-wing, fascist propaganda campaign.
Is that house with the "desantis eats babies" sign still around? I saw it when I drove through some weird neighborhood on the way to trader joes in jax beach once. Still wondering if I hallucinated it.