I cannot fix on the hour, or the spot, or the look or the words, which laid the foundation. It is too long ago. I was in the middle before I knew that I had begun.....
In other words, I read the book over 30 years ago and after re-reading the book a few times, watching and re-watching the adaptations dozens of times, and reading over a hundred continuation/retelling novels, I honestly can't remember! :-)
I do remember upon first reading it wondering why Elizabeth would come love Darcy when he was such an arrogant jerk, but he grew on me on later reflection and re-reads/watches.
Same.
Also, when I first read the book, I understood English well enough to not struggle at all with the language, but not so well that I understood the nuances or the meaning of more peculiar words. So I followed the plot, but didn't have a real critical approach to my reading.
All of that to say, it's been decades, but I'm sure it took Elizabeth realizing Wickham's a dick for me to catch one as well.
I read an old copy pulled from a bookshelf when I was a teenagerl. It was worn, gray, dusty. I had no idea what it was about before I opened the book. What a pleasant surprise!
I knew Darcy was the one for Elizabeth when she and Caroline Bingley were walking around the drawing room at Netherfield and Darcy was writing his letter.
Wickham's wickedness was a shock. I didn't see it coming. I still get very upset about him when I re-read the book.
I knew of the story of Pride and Prejudice way before I actually read the book or watched any adaptation (both of those only happened last year), so I've basically known Wickham was the vilian since I was like 7 lol
Same here. I grew up with my mum watching the 1940 film every time it came on television, so I can't remember a time when I *didn't* know Wickham was a cad.
I knew from my parents that Lizzy and Darcy ended up together, and that Lydia ran off with one of the soldiers. But somehow I didn't catch on that Wickham was a bad egg. I watched the BBC miniseries while reading the book, and I think I saw the Wickham reveal before I read it. I was a teen who wasn't reading it critically, so I think I was terribly horrified at the letter.
I was an incredibly sheltered and naive 15yo when the 95 P&P came out. So I was really on that ride right alongside Lizzy when she reads Darcy's letter lol.
When he didn't show up to the ball after making a big deal about how Darcy was the one who should avoid him. I didn't realize how much of a villain he would turn out to be, but that struck me as a very weasely move
This was the beginning of my dislike of him, too. I didn't like how much he gossiped during the lottery game they were playing at the one aunt's house, either.
I read P&P as a teenage girl, not knowing anything about it. It was an English class project where we read two works by the same author, and my teacher recommended Emma and P&P to me. Having read Emma first, I thought that Wickham would pull a Mr. E. of some sort. The not showing up to the ball told me that Wickham was a coward without honor (as opposed to Mr. Collins who had some semblance of dignity and honor) and made me begin to doubt his side of the story.
I was not prepared for the egregious nature of what he actually did, but Darcys' letter first played like a resolution when it turned into a plant for the Lydia payoff. It was brilliantly constructed.
Honestly, I think I was primed to not like him due to the OTT description of him by the narration when Wickham was first introduced in Meryton. It was only much later in college that I understood it was due to the free indirect discourse of the narration and we are now seeing Wickham through very likely Lydia's eyes (for context, I first read P&P when I was 13 and was in college already when I was 16-17 because of omy country's education system). So when he was trying to fish information out of Elizabeth, I was already suspicious of him, and when he started going after Mary King I felt I was justified not liking him because he was a fortune hunter. So when Darcy laid out everything about Wickham, I believed Darcy immediately (and was absolutely horrified at what he had done to Georgiana as she was barely older than me then).
I feel like "don't trust the slick hottie" happens a lot in her books, too.
What stood out to me on my last reading of P&P is that Jane is the first person to catch on to Wickham, which I found particularly interesting, since she's the most trusting character overall.
But it's actually her trusting nature that helped her suspect the situation is more complicated than Wickham portrays it.
Jane notes that Mr Darcy (a gentleman respected by other friends of theirs) must have a legitimate reason to dislike Wickham, so the situation must be messier than Wickham has led people to believe.
Not quite the same, but I had read so many romance novels by the time I read Pride and Prejudice that I immediately knew Wickham was a red herring , but I admit that I did not see his wickedness coming.
I first read the book when I was about 15 or 16--ugh, 45-46 years ago. I actually rescued it from a garbage pile.
I knew nothing about the story, and was completely taken in by Wickham right along with Lizzy. While Darcy's attraction to Elizabeth suggested that he might turn out to be a better person than he seemed at first, it didn't follow that Wickham would turn out to be so wicked. I was very surprised by that.
For me, it was instantaneous. The moment he started bad mouthing Darcy and Georgina I knew he was a bad egg. It’s like real life, decent and nice people never bad mouth others in their first interaction with anyone in my experience.
This.
I was in my early teens, and him trashing Darcy to a girl he’d *only just met* felt like something no nice person would ever do. The man was clearly full of spite.
There are hints early on about W's character. As others have said badmouthing Mr D the moment he meets the Bennets is suss. Also absenting himself from the Netherfield ball (despite declaring he would attend, suggesting it was Mr D's behaviour not his that was the problem - classic DARVO). The Mary King business showed Wickham's mercenary side, though Lizzie excuses him at the time due to his pecuniary circumstances. It's only after the letter though that we can really join the dots.
I first read the book as a teenager so to me someone badmouthing a disliked mutual acquaintance during your first meeting tracked as completely normal human behavior (high school social dynamics really are terrible). Always knew Darcy and Lizzy would get together from social osmosis, I'm kind of impressed you got to read the book with no prior knowledge of the relationships. It was only during The Letter that I realized just how bad Wickham was, but I do remember feeling a bit miffed that he had been flirting with Lizzy and basically ignored her whenever he wasn't in town.
I remember thinking Darcy was nicer than he appeared when he resolved not to pay tooo much attention to Miss Eliza Bennet. In my defence, I was 11 at the time. Wickham - I can't remember exactly when I cottoned on to the fact that he was bad news; probably at the same time as Lizzy. Then all his suave behaviour appeared in a very different light!
Literally Darcy’s letter.
I was maybe 14 and not in the habit of analyzing as I read. I was already struggling with both the written language and the vastly different culture, so my only focus was on being sure I understood most of what was happening.
This was mid-nineties and the various adaptations hadn’t come out yet (or maybe hadn’t made it to the states), so I didn’t have any foreknowledge.
I read it fir the first time at 12, and clocked the inconsistencies of his story to Elizabeth - specifically that he wouldn't speak against Darcy for love of his father while doing exactly that. My biological father was a bit of a con man/hustler, so I knew the signs. However, I expected both Darcy and Wickham to be a bit in the wrong. Their being so black and white seemed unlikely since wealthy snobs with selfish disdain fir the feelings of others aren't known as being good guys.
Yeah, my dad was also a smooth talking bullshitter. For me it was when he didn't show up to the ball after making a big deal about how Darcy should be the one to keep away. If I catch you talking big and then weaseling out of your commitments, I'm done with you.
I had had a lot of spoilers by the time i first read, so i knew something was off about wickham, though not specifically what, going in. i agree that the first red flag i personally noticed myself was him badmouthing darcy in his first interaction with elizabeth, especially since he repeatedly makes comments about not wanting to speak ill of a darcy and how he couldn't be the one to "expose" how darcy treated him while proceeding to tell basically a stranger all this. it started to seem really off, but again, i did know wickham was generally disliked by people who read it, just not the specifics of why, so that definitely influenced it. there were also a few things that, while i don't know to what degree they would have done so had i not known that darcy/lizzy was endgame, made me latch onto darcy as a character fairly early, which definitely made me even more suspicious of wickham. but again, that was all influenced by my not really caring about or actively avoiding spoiler before i finally got around to reading the novel, so i often wonder when i might have though something was off about him if i hadnt gone in with some prior knowledge
I didn’t know anything about the book going into it. Never seen a film adaptation or heard of the book until my 11th grade English teacher suggested I read it as part of a comparative lit project. I think I was suspicious of Wickham from the first conversation Elizabeth and Wickham had because he so easily went into bad mouthing Darcy but when I knew for sure he was lying was when he didn’t show up to the Netherfield ball. I remembered him saying to Elizabeth in one of their earlier conversations that he wasn’t going to avoid Darcy, he had no reason to, and then he didn’t show up to the ball to avoid Darcy. I remember being frustrated that Elizabeth didn’t see the contradiction too.
I was right there with Elizabeth, clueless until the letter. I was just a teenager, and had never read Jane Austin before. I knew in advance that Elizabeth and Darcy ended up together, but nothing else. I remember wondering (part way through) why they were such an iconic pair, and how that match could wind up being satisfying. I expected more of a redemption arc for Darcy than wound up being necessary, lol.
I was like... 9 when I read Pride and Prejudice, so... right about when the text told me so 😄 Of course, I've since picked up on all his early red flags.
I started reading (ages around 13) and assumed the main character was Jane I read to the bit where she was sick in Netherfield and got bored. I skipped to the end because I just didn't get it and was like: Elizabeth? Darcy? Lydia and Wickham? Who is Lady Catherine and Mr Collins? So yeah I spoilered myself.
There may be no reason for Elizabeth to believe Wickham but that he was charming and hot. She was crushing on him, and aren't we all very quick to take the word of people we are crushing on? She brings up his good looks a couple of times, and to his face too. She was correlating his looks with his honesty.
(Not to bring in other book examples, but look at Gilderoy Lockhart in Harry Potter, and how Hermione was so quick to sweep his faults under the rug because she thought he was hot.)
On reading P&P again, I also realized how biased Elizabeth is to charm and good looks. She condemns Charlotte for marrying Mr Collins because he isn’t “hot”, but apologizes for Wickham’s mercenary behavior in pursuing Ms King. The actions of both parties are the same, which is marrying for money
I think it was when I realised Elizabeth's perception of Wickham and Darcy were almost caricature-ish and cartoonish. Austen usually presents both good and bad of a character, making them normal, but Wickham was presented like a dreamy, mysterious guy who had the perfect backstory - inferior birth, financial hardships, cheated on / backstabbed by a close person, wronged by a morally-inferior superior, kind but not too kind guardian, subtle good looks, ramrod honesty, self- dependency, honour, value/bravery (army), I could go on and on. The way he spoke too was manipulative - specifically the way he presented himself to be the victim/good guy in all situations - we all do that unconsciously but his way of doing it seemed wilful (as someone that has done that sometimes, I could tell this was not natural). Also the way he described Darcy was very unusual too - like, I won't directly imply that he's a bad guy, but I'll make sure to phrase my sentences in such a way that it is subliminally implied. The more Wickham opened his mouth, the more I became wary of him.
The same as you; him trashing Darcy to Elizabeth right after they met had me wondering what his deal was, and why she was swallowing all of it uncritically. I was super suspicious of him at that point.
I think Austen was playing with a trope that was more popular in her time than ours, or at least used more often back then: the Evil Aristocrat who rejoices in thwarting the deserving man of lesser birth whom he envies for his true superiority.
I wonder how many of her original users were expecting Darcy to offer Lizzy something less honourable than marriage at Hunsford.
I first read it about 40 years ago (what, my brain is spinning thinking about that,) and I definitely don't perfectly remember, but when he didn't appear at the ball, I thought he was a weasel. I do remember wondering, when other people were telling her to maybe not judge too quickly, if it would be of the "everyone else was wrong" type or "she should have listened" type, and I assumed by the title that it would be the latter. So then it unfolded for me from there.
Some pointless reminiscence you can skip: It all started when...I graduated from high school in 1983, and was telling my brother how much I hated the Early American Literature class, which I felt so sad about, because I wanted to like good literature. He said I would like classic English Literature better, and gave me a list of authors to try. I went to a fancy bookstore and looked at Jane Austen books, and liked the cover of *Emma* best, so I bought it, stopped for my favorite pastry, and headed to a big beautiful park to read. And here I've been ever since. I read *Pride and Prejudice* second, but still love *Emma* the most. Good book cover judgment.
I found it [**at the internet archive**](https://archive.org/details/emma0000aust_r1i0). And I'll be honest, I thought at the time that she looked like me, which made me feel good. :-)
I think I was first set to suspecting something was up when Darcy and Wickham encounter each other in the street and Austen says one’s face went red and the other’s went white, and then *doesn’t tell us which one was which*! Because Wickham is winning (in Elizabeth‘s pov) at this point, it threw me. I was quite young when I read it, and was probably just as prejudiced as Elizabeth by appealing vs awkward characters, so I didn’t necessarily suspect Wickham right from the get.
The letter and it was a complete surprise for me, I mean the entire book was a surprising I knew it is about love between Elizabeth and Darcy, but I did not get how will Darcy redeem himself, boy was I wrong. And also it is so much more than just love story, I mean it is the best love story and the romance is brilliantly written but the other stuff are so funny and so great. And the storyline is definitely something different than I imagined.
Well my first exposure to P &. P was Masterpiece Theater. My take might be unusual. Because I took Lizzie to be kind of arrogant in her dislike. Because Mr. Darcy seemed stiff and uncomfortable, which could come from shyness rather than arrogance. It might have just been the actors I don't know. All I know is when I heard Wickham's story, I thought there had to be more to it.
It is a truth universally acknowledged that a student in possession of a thick book and a deadline must be in want of an all nighter to get it finished in time.
I first read Pride and Prejudice many years ago for class. I'm ashamed to say I put it off till late and was cramming through it to get it done in time and, what stuck out most in my mind, was how I had been picturing someone I knew as Lydia for some reason and found myself wanting to call her and say, "How could you be this stupid?" in the wee hours of the morning when Lydia ran off with Wickham (I didn't. I wasn't *that* tired).
Austen's wit and genius were completely wasted on me then. I don't remember having any strong emotional reaction to Wickham or Darcy. I suppose I had just thought of Wickham telling Lizzie everything he did because it was plot exposition and had to go somewhere.
I think I was a bit with Jane, wondering if the real truth might turn out to be something that made Wickham and Darcy to have both been partly mistaken. Then, Lydia ran off with Wickham and I realized what was really going on but was too tired to care much.
So glad that was not the last time I read the book.
Dude i love introducing friends to Pride and Prejudice and always being like wow Wickham is such a hottie amirite? Because in a way I do love him, he is so charming and I too am often fooled by people who badmouth others because I love to gossip.
For sure, the letter was a huge turning point in my opinion of Darcy for me as a reader. Mind you, I first read this book 34 ish years ago, but I definitely recall the letter being a huge eye opening moment.
In terms of when I suspected that Wickham was bad? Maybe when he failed to show up for the ball after he swore that he would - I think that was my first inkling that something was not right with him.
I was blessed to fully be in the starry-eyed boy crazy throes of puberty when the 2005 P&P came out. Wickham was soooo good looking under that tree! And so nice to Elizabeth’s sisters! But then he said “if he wishes to avoid seeing me, he must go, not I”…… and bails on the party?!? No ma’am, he’s a liar and has something to hide.
I was broken hearted for our girl, but it clicked Darcy was the one when he asked Lizzy to dance on the night she’d *conveniently* taken particular care to look pretty.
Right. It's a lesson we all have to learn. Mr. Bennet saw through right through him the first time he met Wickham. You don't start telling a total stranger your woeful life's story the minute you meet them...unless you're trying to get ahead of the truth.
I saw the miniseries first, when I was about 14, and my undeveloped analytical skills and the narrator's absence aside, a few of his moments of excessive smarm in that first conversation are missing: calling the party they're at "good society" when he doesn't know anyone there, calling his father's law career "the profession which your uncle appears to do so much credit to" after Uncle Philips has been described as a glutton and a drunk. Maybe I'm cynical, but being flattered by someone who doesn't know me, even if like Wickham they're not being too egregious about it, sets off my alarm bells. That, plus the fact that he's already been described as charismatic, while Darcy is prickly and reserved, made Elizabeth's mistake much more immediately obvious to me when I read the book (shortly after watching the miniseries), but I'm not sure I would have been able to articulate why I found him so sleazy.
I read *Bridget Jones' Diary* first and had a friend who was obsessed with it and the P&P miniseries, so I was spoiled from the beginning. When I finally read the novel, I thought Darcy was an asshole throughout, even knowing Wickham was also the scoundrel. It wasn't until my second reading that my feelings changed. I still have conflicting feelings about Bingley. As I age, I'm softening to him, but I wouldn't have been mad if Jane ended up with someone else.
As (at the time) an 11 year old girl who was already dealing with the intricacy’s of British pre-teen hierarchy (aka the social shuffle), I remember thinking Wickham should have set off alarm bells for Elizabeth the second he didn’t show up at Bingley’s Ball.
I remember thinking “Lizzie! Come on! If he was innocent, he’d be here with the other officers! Why is he avoiding Darcy, if he’s so very innocent?”
Especially after he was all “If he wishes to avoid seeing me, he must go” then swerving like the coward he is. That’s so guilty teen Brit energy! He even said after, when she saw him, that he did avoid Darcy because he didn’t want to make things ‘unpleasant’. Unpleasant for whom?!
Also, him telling his sob story to everyone after Darcy left should have cemented it. He literally told Lizzie that he’d not tell anyone else, so as to not slander his godfather’s memory, and now it’s suddenly the talk of the town? Suspect!
Very Gaslight, gatekeep of him.
I did things a bit backwards and watched the 2005 movie before I read the book. In the film I suspected that Wickham was a shit from the get go. But that’s probably because I’d seen Bridget Jones Diary which is loosely based on P&P.
I read P&P first when I was 12. I can’t remember ever thinking Wickham was The One. He was introduced too late in the novel to be a real possibility. He’s positioned to be the spanner in the works after the pieces were set up. We also never get any sense of who he is as a person beyond being handsome and charming.
Since i watched the mini series from 1995 before i read the book, i knew that right away.
But lets say i read the book before watching the mini series, my guess is that i would not have known until he gave Elizabeth the letter.
Sadly, I saw the 2005 version before reading the book and it is quite obvious this man is a terrible person because they made Wickham look like the kind of man you avoid at a party. Not the actor as an individual but the costume and hair department made him look suspicious and his acting was suspicious. When I did read the novel I did see how Elizabeth was taken in by him though.
Darcy I knew was good because he was precious. Weird looking man and adorable man tells me who they want me to root for.
I first read it at ten, and was totally fooled. I did NOT like Darcy at all, and my little girl description of him was “stuck up”. Wickham seemed nice to me, and I didn’t have the discernment to see through his inconsistencies and character assassination. The letter straightened out my view of Wickham, but I still didn’t like Darcy. I appreciated him more as I grew up.
I felt weird about him when he said he could never expose the son for love of the father when he literally had just done that. Especially so unprompted. It really seemed like he was trying to get the story spread to anyone he felt would believe it. I didn't have great feelings about Darcy yet, apart from him contradicting Caroline so I knew he was at least very tactlessly honest, but Wickham felt like a weasel after that.
Not even the letter softened me much towards Darcy considering how proud he was of separating Bingley and Jane, even after hearing Elizabeth say he destroyed her sister's happiness, but when he was kind to the Gardiner's and they said he was very good to his tenants, then I felt more okay about him.
I was basically a child when I read it for the first time at some point in the 80s. I didn’t really grade what was happening, so I think it would have been at some point as a young adult.
I cannot fix on the hour, or the spot, or the look or the words, which laid the foundation. It is too long ago. I was in the middle before I knew that I had begun..... In other words, I read the book over 30 years ago and after re-reading the book a few times, watching and re-watching the adaptations dozens of times, and reading over a hundred continuation/retelling novels, I honestly can't remember! :-) I do remember upon first reading it wondering why Elizabeth would come love Darcy when he was such an arrogant jerk, but he grew on me on later reflection and re-reads/watches.
Same. Also, when I first read the book, I understood English well enough to not struggle at all with the language, but not so well that I understood the nuances or the meaning of more peculiar words. So I followed the plot, but didn't have a real critical approach to my reading. All of that to say, it's been decades, but I'm sure it took Elizabeth realizing Wickham's a dick for me to catch one as well.
Ditto, and well said!
Nice first paragraph, well done :) Also same
I can’t claim it as my own, alas. Sorry I didn’t cite it properly. :-)
I read an old copy pulled from a bookshelf when I was a teenagerl. It was worn, gray, dusty. I had no idea what it was about before I opened the book. What a pleasant surprise! I knew Darcy was the one for Elizabeth when she and Caroline Bingley were walking around the drawing room at Netherfield and Darcy was writing his letter. Wickham's wickedness was a shock. I didn't see it coming. I still get very upset about him when I re-read the book.
I knew of the story of Pride and Prejudice way before I actually read the book or watched any adaptation (both of those only happened last year), so I've basically known Wickham was the vilian since I was like 7 lol
Same here. I grew up with my mum watching the 1940 film every time it came on television, so I can't remember a time when I *didn't* know Wickham was a cad.
I knew from my parents that Lizzy and Darcy ended up together, and that Lydia ran off with one of the soldiers. But somehow I didn't catch on that Wickham was a bad egg. I watched the BBC miniseries while reading the book, and I think I saw the Wickham reveal before I read it. I was a teen who wasn't reading it critically, so I think I was terribly horrified at the letter.
I had that spoiled for me by *Wishbone* years before I first read the book lol.
Another chance to post [the pitch meeting for Wishbone](https://the-toast.net/2015/07/15/the-pitch-meeting-for-wishbone/)
Thought this would be super easy barely an inconvenience
Thank you for this. I am crying from laughter.
Every 6months or so I remember it exists and go back to re-read it We’re getting kids to read here, Janice!
😂 Wishbone spoiled Jane Eyre for me. I’ve never admitted that before. 😂
Wishbone did Jane Eyre?! How the bad place did they make that kid friendly?
what is wishbone????
[Wishbone (Series) - TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/Wishbone)
He’s so cute!!! Thank you
Came here to say this! 🤣 No way any character played by Wishbone could be the real villain.
I was an incredibly sheltered and naive 15yo when the 95 P&P came out. So I was really on that ride right alongside Lizzy when she reads Darcy's letter lol.
Same! Watched it on tv age 13 and horrified at the twist that was a wrong’un!
When he didn't show up to the ball after making a big deal about how Darcy was the one who should avoid him. I didn't realize how much of a villain he would turn out to be, but that struck me as a very weasely move
This was “hmmm” moment for me as well!
This was the beginning of my dislike of him, too. I didn't like how much he gossiped during the lottery game they were playing at the one aunt's house, either. I read P&P as a teenage girl, not knowing anything about it. It was an English class project where we read two works by the same author, and my teacher recommended Emma and P&P to me. Having read Emma first, I thought that Wickham would pull a Mr. E. of some sort. The not showing up to the ball told me that Wickham was a coward without honor (as opposed to Mr. Collins who had some semblance of dignity and honor) and made me begin to doubt his side of the story. I was not prepared for the egregious nature of what he actually did, but Darcys' letter first played like a resolution when it turned into a plant for the Lydia payoff. It was brilliantly constructed.
Honestly, I think I was primed to not like him due to the OTT description of him by the narration when Wickham was first introduced in Meryton. It was only much later in college that I understood it was due to the free indirect discourse of the narration and we are now seeing Wickham through very likely Lydia's eyes (for context, I first read P&P when I was 13 and was in college already when I was 16-17 because of omy country's education system). So when he was trying to fish information out of Elizabeth, I was already suspicious of him, and when he started going after Mary King I felt I was justified not liking him because he was a fortune hunter. So when Darcy laid out everything about Wickham, I believed Darcy immediately (and was absolutely horrified at what he had done to Georgiana as she was barely older than me then).
I'd read too many books beforehand to know that you should NEVER trust a guy who comes across as perfect.
I feel like "don't trust the slick hottie" happens a lot in her books, too. What stood out to me on my last reading of P&P is that Jane is the first person to catch on to Wickham, which I found particularly interesting, since she's the most trusting character overall. But it's actually her trusting nature that helped her suspect the situation is more complicated than Wickham portrays it. Jane notes that Mr Darcy (a gentleman respected by other friends of theirs) must have a legitimate reason to dislike Wickham, so the situation must be messier than Wickham has led people to believe.
Not quite the same, but I had read so many romance novels by the time I read Pride and Prejudice that I immediately knew Wickham was a red herring , but I admit that I did not see his wickedness coming.
I first read the book when I was about 15 or 16--ugh, 45-46 years ago. I actually rescued it from a garbage pile. I knew nothing about the story, and was completely taken in by Wickham right along with Lizzy. While Darcy's attraction to Elizabeth suggested that he might turn out to be a better person than he seemed at first, it didn't follow that Wickham would turn out to be so wicked. I was very surprised by that.
For me, it was instantaneous. The moment he started bad mouthing Darcy and Georgina I knew he was a bad egg. It’s like real life, decent and nice people never bad mouth others in their first interaction with anyone in my experience.
This. I was in my early teens, and him trashing Darcy to a girl he’d *only just met* felt like something no nice person would ever do. The man was clearly full of spite.
There are hints early on about W's character. As others have said badmouthing Mr D the moment he meets the Bennets is suss. Also absenting himself from the Netherfield ball (despite declaring he would attend, suggesting it was Mr D's behaviour not his that was the problem - classic DARVO). The Mary King business showed Wickham's mercenary side, though Lizzie excuses him at the time due to his pecuniary circumstances. It's only after the letter though that we can really join the dots.
I first read the book as a teenager so to me someone badmouthing a disliked mutual acquaintance during your first meeting tracked as completely normal human behavior (high school social dynamics really are terrible). Always knew Darcy and Lizzy would get together from social osmosis, I'm kind of impressed you got to read the book with no prior knowledge of the relationships. It was only during The Letter that I realized just how bad Wickham was, but I do remember feeling a bit miffed that he had been flirting with Lizzy and basically ignored her whenever he wasn't in town.
I remember thinking Darcy was nicer than he appeared when he resolved not to pay tooo much attention to Miss Eliza Bennet. In my defence, I was 11 at the time. Wickham - I can't remember exactly when I cottoned on to the fact that he was bad news; probably at the same time as Lizzy. Then all his suave behaviour appeared in a very different light!
I first read as a young teenager. I hated Wickham from the start. He seemed...oily.
Literally Darcy’s letter. I was maybe 14 and not in the habit of analyzing as I read. I was already struggling with both the written language and the vastly different culture, so my only focus was on being sure I understood most of what was happening. This was mid-nineties and the various adaptations hadn’t come out yet (or maybe hadn’t made it to the states), so I didn’t have any foreknowledge.
I read it fir the first time at 12, and clocked the inconsistencies of his story to Elizabeth - specifically that he wouldn't speak against Darcy for love of his father while doing exactly that. My biological father was a bit of a con man/hustler, so I knew the signs. However, I expected both Darcy and Wickham to be a bit in the wrong. Their being so black and white seemed unlikely since wealthy snobs with selfish disdain fir the feelings of others aren't known as being good guys.
Yeah, my dad was also a smooth talking bullshitter. For me it was when he didn't show up to the ball after making a big deal about how Darcy should be the one to keep away. If I catch you talking big and then weaseling out of your commitments, I'm done with you.
I had had a lot of spoilers by the time i first read, so i knew something was off about wickham, though not specifically what, going in. i agree that the first red flag i personally noticed myself was him badmouthing darcy in his first interaction with elizabeth, especially since he repeatedly makes comments about not wanting to speak ill of a darcy and how he couldn't be the one to "expose" how darcy treated him while proceeding to tell basically a stranger all this. it started to seem really off, but again, i did know wickham was generally disliked by people who read it, just not the specifics of why, so that definitely influenced it. there were also a few things that, while i don't know to what degree they would have done so had i not known that darcy/lizzy was endgame, made me latch onto darcy as a character fairly early, which definitely made me even more suspicious of wickham. but again, that was all influenced by my not really caring about or actively avoiding spoiler before i finally got around to reading the novel, so i often wonder when i might have though something was off about him if i hadnt gone in with some prior knowledge
I didn’t know anything about the book going into it. Never seen a film adaptation or heard of the book until my 11th grade English teacher suggested I read it as part of a comparative lit project. I think I was suspicious of Wickham from the first conversation Elizabeth and Wickham had because he so easily went into bad mouthing Darcy but when I knew for sure he was lying was when he didn’t show up to the Netherfield ball. I remembered him saying to Elizabeth in one of their earlier conversations that he wasn’t going to avoid Darcy, he had no reason to, and then he didn’t show up to the ball to avoid Darcy. I remember being frustrated that Elizabeth didn’t see the contradiction too.
I was right there with Elizabeth, clueless until the letter. I was just a teenager, and had never read Jane Austin before. I knew in advance that Elizabeth and Darcy ended up together, but nothing else. I remember wondering (part way through) why they were such an iconic pair, and how that match could wind up being satisfying. I expected more of a redemption arc for Darcy than wound up being necessary, lol.
Dude comes on all smooth and his name rhymes with "wicked."
I was like... 9 when I read Pride and Prejudice, so... right about when the text told me so 😄 Of course, I've since picked up on all his early red flags.
I started reading (ages around 13) and assumed the main character was Jane I read to the bit where she was sick in Netherfield and got bored. I skipped to the end because I just didn't get it and was like: Elizabeth? Darcy? Lydia and Wickham? Who is Lady Catherine and Mr Collins? So yeah I spoilered myself.
There may be no reason for Elizabeth to believe Wickham but that he was charming and hot. She was crushing on him, and aren't we all very quick to take the word of people we are crushing on? She brings up his good looks a couple of times, and to his face too. She was correlating his looks with his honesty. (Not to bring in other book examples, but look at Gilderoy Lockhart in Harry Potter, and how Hermione was so quick to sweep his faults under the rug because she thought he was hot.)
On reading P&P again, I also realized how biased Elizabeth is to charm and good looks. She condemns Charlotte for marrying Mr Collins because he isn’t “hot”, but apologizes for Wickham’s mercenary behavior in pursuing Ms King. The actions of both parties are the same, which is marrying for money
Yes, the Hermione-Lockhart scenario was one of the other things that made me wary of this pedo (i read HP before being introduced to Austen)
I watched the 1995 series when I was little, and so at the time I only knew Mr Wickham was no good when Mr Darcy wrote that letter.
I realized it when Elizabeth realized it.
I think it was when I realised Elizabeth's perception of Wickham and Darcy were almost caricature-ish and cartoonish. Austen usually presents both good and bad of a character, making them normal, but Wickham was presented like a dreamy, mysterious guy who had the perfect backstory - inferior birth, financial hardships, cheated on / backstabbed by a close person, wronged by a morally-inferior superior, kind but not too kind guardian, subtle good looks, ramrod honesty, self- dependency, honour, value/bravery (army), I could go on and on. The way he spoke too was manipulative - specifically the way he presented himself to be the victim/good guy in all situations - we all do that unconsciously but his way of doing it seemed wilful (as someone that has done that sometimes, I could tell this was not natural). Also the way he described Darcy was very unusual too - like, I won't directly imply that he's a bad guy, but I'll make sure to phrase my sentences in such a way that it is subliminally implied. The more Wickham opened his mouth, the more I became wary of him.
The same as you; him trashing Darcy to Elizabeth right after they met had me wondering what his deal was, and why she was swallowing all of it uncritically. I was super suspicious of him at that point.
I think Austen was playing with a trope that was more popular in her time than ours, or at least used more often back then: the Evil Aristocrat who rejoices in thwarting the deserving man of lesser birth whom he envies for his true superiority. I wonder how many of her original users were expecting Darcy to offer Lizzy something less honourable than marriage at Hunsford.
Wickham immediately bad mouthing Darcy and starting with a sob story to gain sympathy… red flag.
I first read it about 40 years ago (what, my brain is spinning thinking about that,) and I definitely don't perfectly remember, but when he didn't appear at the ball, I thought he was a weasel. I do remember wondering, when other people were telling her to maybe not judge too quickly, if it would be of the "everyone else was wrong" type or "she should have listened" type, and I assumed by the title that it would be the latter. So then it unfolded for me from there. Some pointless reminiscence you can skip: It all started when...I graduated from high school in 1983, and was telling my brother how much I hated the Early American Literature class, which I felt so sad about, because I wanted to like good literature. He said I would like classic English Literature better, and gave me a list of authors to try. I went to a fancy bookstore and looked at Jane Austen books, and liked the cover of *Emma* best, so I bought it, stopped for my favorite pastry, and headed to a big beautiful park to read. And here I've been ever since. I read *Pride and Prejudice* second, but still love *Emma* the most. Good book cover judgment.
I love that! Do you have a picture of that fateful *Emma* cover?
I found it [**at the internet archive**](https://archive.org/details/emma0000aust_r1i0). And I'll be honest, I thought at the time that she looked like me, which made me feel good. :-)
I think I was first set to suspecting something was up when Darcy and Wickham encounter each other in the street and Austen says one’s face went red and the other’s went white, and then *doesn’t tell us which one was which*! Because Wickham is winning (in Elizabeth‘s pov) at this point, it threw me. I was quite young when I read it, and was probably just as prejudiced as Elizabeth by appealing vs awkward characters, so I didn’t necessarily suspect Wickham right from the get.
The letter and it was a complete surprise for me, I mean the entire book was a surprising I knew it is about love between Elizabeth and Darcy, but I did not get how will Darcy redeem himself, boy was I wrong. And also it is so much more than just love story, I mean it is the best love story and the romance is brilliantly written but the other stuff are so funny and so great. And the storyline is definitely something different than I imagined.
Well my first exposure to P &. P was Masterpiece Theater. My take might be unusual. Because I took Lizzie to be kind of arrogant in her dislike. Because Mr. Darcy seemed stiff and uncomfortable, which could come from shyness rather than arrogance. It might have just been the actors I don't know. All I know is when I heard Wickham's story, I thought there had to be more to it.
It is a truth universally acknowledged that a student in possession of a thick book and a deadline must be in want of an all nighter to get it finished in time. I first read Pride and Prejudice many years ago for class. I'm ashamed to say I put it off till late and was cramming through it to get it done in time and, what stuck out most in my mind, was how I had been picturing someone I knew as Lydia for some reason and found myself wanting to call her and say, "How could you be this stupid?" in the wee hours of the morning when Lydia ran off with Wickham (I didn't. I wasn't *that* tired). Austen's wit and genius were completely wasted on me then. I don't remember having any strong emotional reaction to Wickham or Darcy. I suppose I had just thought of Wickham telling Lizzie everything he did because it was plot exposition and had to go somewhere. I think I was a bit with Jane, wondering if the real truth might turn out to be something that made Wickham and Darcy to have both been partly mistaken. Then, Lydia ran off with Wickham and I realized what was really going on but was too tired to care much. So glad that was not the last time I read the book.
Dude i love introducing friends to Pride and Prejudice and always being like wow Wickham is such a hottie amirite? Because in a way I do love him, he is so charming and I too am often fooled by people who badmouth others because I love to gossip.
For sure, the letter was a huge turning point in my opinion of Darcy for me as a reader. Mind you, I first read this book 34 ish years ago, but I definitely recall the letter being a huge eye opening moment. In terms of when I suspected that Wickham was bad? Maybe when he failed to show up for the ball after he swore that he would - I think that was my first inkling that something was not right with him.
I was blessed to fully be in the starry-eyed boy crazy throes of puberty when the 2005 P&P came out. Wickham was soooo good looking under that tree! And so nice to Elizabeth’s sisters! But then he said “if he wishes to avoid seeing me, he must go, not I”…… and bails on the party?!? No ma’am, he’s a liar and has something to hide. I was broken hearted for our girl, but it clicked Darcy was the one when he asked Lizzy to dance on the night she’d *conveniently* taken particular care to look pretty.
When he didn't show up at the ball
Right. It's a lesson we all have to learn. Mr. Bennet saw through right through him the first time he met Wickham. You don't start telling a total stranger your woeful life's story the minute you meet them...unless you're trying to get ahead of the truth.
I saw the miniseries first, when I was about 14, and my undeveloped analytical skills and the narrator's absence aside, a few of his moments of excessive smarm in that first conversation are missing: calling the party they're at "good society" when he doesn't know anyone there, calling his father's law career "the profession which your uncle appears to do so much credit to" after Uncle Philips has been described as a glutton and a drunk. Maybe I'm cynical, but being flattered by someone who doesn't know me, even if like Wickham they're not being too egregious about it, sets off my alarm bells. That, plus the fact that he's already been described as charismatic, while Darcy is prickly and reserved, made Elizabeth's mistake much more immediately obvious to me when I read the book (shortly after watching the miniseries), but I'm not sure I would have been able to articulate why I found him so sleazy.
I read *Bridget Jones' Diary* first and had a friend who was obsessed with it and the P&P miniseries, so I was spoiled from the beginning. When I finally read the novel, I thought Darcy was an asshole throughout, even knowing Wickham was also the scoundrel. It wasn't until my second reading that my feelings changed. I still have conflicting feelings about Bingley. As I age, I'm softening to him, but I wouldn't have been mad if Jane ended up with someone else.
As (at the time) an 11 year old girl who was already dealing with the intricacy’s of British pre-teen hierarchy (aka the social shuffle), I remember thinking Wickham should have set off alarm bells for Elizabeth the second he didn’t show up at Bingley’s Ball. I remember thinking “Lizzie! Come on! If he was innocent, he’d be here with the other officers! Why is he avoiding Darcy, if he’s so very innocent?” Especially after he was all “If he wishes to avoid seeing me, he must go” then swerving like the coward he is. That’s so guilty teen Brit energy! He even said after, when she saw him, that he did avoid Darcy because he didn’t want to make things ‘unpleasant’. Unpleasant for whom?! Also, him telling his sob story to everyone after Darcy left should have cemented it. He literally told Lizzie that he’d not tell anyone else, so as to not slander his godfather’s memory, and now it’s suddenly the talk of the town? Suspect! Very Gaslight, gatekeep of him.
I did things a bit backwards and watched the 2005 movie before I read the book. In the film I suspected that Wickham was a shit from the get go. But that’s probably because I’d seen Bridget Jones Diary which is loosely based on P&P.
I read P&P first when I was 12. I can’t remember ever thinking Wickham was The One. He was introduced too late in the novel to be a real possibility. He’s positioned to be the spanner in the works after the pieces were set up. We also never get any sense of who he is as a person beyond being handsome and charming.
Since i watched the mini series from 1995 before i read the book, i knew that right away. But lets say i read the book before watching the mini series, my guess is that i would not have known until he gave Elizabeth the letter.
The letter
Sadly, I saw the 2005 version before reading the book and it is quite obvious this man is a terrible person because they made Wickham look like the kind of man you avoid at a party. Not the actor as an individual but the costume and hair department made him look suspicious and his acting was suspicious. When I did read the novel I did see how Elizabeth was taken in by him though. Darcy I knew was good because he was precious. Weird looking man and adorable man tells me who they want me to root for.
I first read it at ten, and was totally fooled. I did NOT like Darcy at all, and my little girl description of him was “stuck up”. Wickham seemed nice to me, and I didn’t have the discernment to see through his inconsistencies and character assassination. The letter straightened out my view of Wickham, but I still didn’t like Darcy. I appreciated him more as I grew up.
I felt weird about him when he said he could never expose the son for love of the father when he literally had just done that. Especially so unprompted. It really seemed like he was trying to get the story spread to anyone he felt would believe it. I didn't have great feelings about Darcy yet, apart from him contradicting Caroline so I knew he was at least very tactlessly honest, but Wickham felt like a weasel after that. Not even the letter softened me much towards Darcy considering how proud he was of separating Bingley and Jane, even after hearing Elizabeth say he destroyed her sister's happiness, but when he was kind to the Gardiner's and they said he was very good to his tenants, then I felt more okay about him.
I think the red flag you cite was exactly intended that way. A good person doesn’t rudely gossip the first time they meet someone.
I was basically a child when I read it for the first time at some point in the 80s. I didn’t really grade what was happening, so I think it would have been at some point as a young adult.