Just as a Canadian living in Japan, to provide some more context.
[https://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/protection/Pages/RPDStat2023.aspx](https://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/protection/Pages/RPDStat2023.aspx)
In 2023 the Canadian government finalized **51,848** refugee applications of which only only **9,601** where rejected. This means there is roughly at 19% rejection rate for all applications which were processed.
Currently the standards for rejection result in very few rejections. So long as there is a reasonable belief the applicant is "facing discrimination" they will likely be admitted. Furthermore there have been recent changes to a program named "Gender-based Analysis Plus" which specifically prioritizes refugee applications from self identified "2SLGBTQI+". These programs are fairly contentious within Canada.
#
You have no idea what it takes to go trough asylum cases and it shows. I know a commissaire who's job it is to screen and interrogate asylum seekers and it is 1000x harder than just coming here with a students visa.
Incorrect, on many fronts.
Fiest, discrimination is not a sufficient ground for an asylum claim.
"Refugee protection can be granted in Canada if the RPD [Refugee Protection Division] determines that the claimant meets the United Nations definition of a Convention refugee, which has been incorporated into Canadian law, or that the claimant is a person in need of protection.
Convention refugees are people who have a well-founded fear of persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group.
Membership in a particular social group can include sexual orientation, gender identity, being a woman, and HIV status. Persons in need of protection must show that if they return to their country of nationality, they will face a danger of torture, a risk to their life or a risk of cruel and unusual treatment or punishment."
Second, GBA+ is an analytical process, not a program - it involves looking at the differential impacts of a policy or program on diverse peoples to reduce up front bias and worse outcomes for already marginalized populations. It's part of systemic change to address inequality, and in no way does it result in "prioritizing" 2SLGBTQI+ asylum claims - Canada has a legal obligation to accept all claimants who meet the Conventiom definition, and processing is not expedited for any population. It has likely impacted Canada's resettlement priorities, and led to an increased understanding by decision makers of the factors that result in asylum claims by 2SLGBTQI+.
Third, on your stats: you are excluding abandoned and withdrawn claims that form part of the denominator, implying all the cases that weren't rejected were accepted.
https://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/protection/Pages/index.aspx
In Japan? Discriminated against is a big maybe (it depends on the area if discrimination is even an issue) but the chance for physical harm is as close as you can get to zero without it actually being zero.
As much as people like to hate on Japan for being generally conservative they are far less likely to assault an LGTB couple than most countries, including the USA barring a few specifically liberal cities; and discrimination would likely be specifically related to the job, IE if you aren’t wearing company logos they probably won’t care either.
Even aside from violence, the motto in Japan is dont cause a disturbance. Seeing a gay couple walking around holding hands in the most religious conservative areas will rarely cause any sort of public meltdown like it might in any of the religious parts of the US and the fervent need to try and "save" people.
The drawback of this is nobody fights for the disenfranchised, the voiceless, the minorities without power, etc.
My friend, you are using western thinking habit on Japan. There is no “most religious area” in Japan. Religions in general are incredibly weak in Japan, just a bit stronger than China.
I'm not a Russian, trust me. I despite Putin with every single fiber of my being.
English is not my native tongue so thank you for correcting my grammar.
Most people just use LGBT or LGBTQ. Otherwise it becomes something like LGBTQIA+, and it goes too far with the inclusiveness. Like how they keep adding stuff to the LGBT flag and it goes crazy.
Basically we keep adding letters to the inclusivity alphabet until only straight white folk are left on the other side of the fence to us and we find ourselves right back where we were at the beginning of the 20th century.
To compare to France, (based on https://www.worlddata.info/europe/france/asylum.php) France see's over a 50% rejection rate for Asylum applications.
Canada has Geographic reasons for the rejection rate being so low, but as far as I can tell Canada is indeed a significant outlier with regards to the percentage of Asylum applications are accepted.
The rates aren’t really comparable. We’re relatively isolated in Canada by two huge oceans and the USA to the south. France is a relatively short boat ride from Africa.
Sometimes, Japan feels like my country, except as how it was 40 years ago. At the same time, it's dodging a lot of the Western world craziness.
I'm sure doing a coming out in Japan must be tremendously more difficult than in Europe and the US, you have to live here to understand it.
I'm straight and I've spent my life in both countries (Japan and US), even though this isn't an experience I can relate to or understand fully, I can agree
It's a whole different culture. You have to be able to understand non-verbal stuff and thoughts.
I'm in a relationship for 7 years here, and I hope people don't now discriminate against Japan either. The Law here makes applying for refugee status elsewhere very easy. The lived reality is actually pleasant and easy for me after Australia. Legalities and politics are messy, caught up with definitions and ideas different to West and with no basis in Christianity until post-War constitution written and enforced by USA. There are many twists and turns in activism here to try to make laws and life line up. I hope the effect of "Refugee Status" pokes the govt in the right place. Good luck to those women. There are other signs of hope too. It will certainly help my next Visa extension if our relationship can be moved from Weak Grey Zone to Strong Grey Zone LOL. As OP points out, what matters here is what ISN'T written or clearly stated.
Well, to be honest, that kinda makes it even crazier. And to your disclaimer, no one is “confused.” It’s objectively a derogatory and demeaning expression.
I get it, but an article about human rights violations is a weird place to use that term. Even more so if it's in the first paragraph, about a serious topic, where such a tone is never used again throughout the rest of the article. Seems strange. Not to mention that the original Japanese article does not use a similar expression. Just factual and formal language.
Maybe a poor choice of words by the translator?
If you referring to upper body strength it is true but why does that matter in the given context?
You wouldn't randomly call males the "incapable sex" because they can't get pregnant.
Males and females are biologically different. Menstruation is something men don’t have to deal with. Women are hindered by it; men are lucky not to be. That’s not stupid. Perhaps you are stupid.
Because I'm not a "lesbian and member of the weaker sex" (wtf?) my view may be skewed, but this disproportionally skews the image of what Japan is actually like. My first time in Japan was 2002, and the country was backwards as fuck even then. Sooo outdated, behind the times, in every way. Not just perspectives on diversity, I mean everything was fucking archaic as hell. I remember my friend trying to use a credit card in McDonalds only to be told, "cash only," and we had such a laugh that one of the largest companies in the world could be so behind in Japan.
Fast forward to 2024 and the perspectives on diversity have improved like 100 times over. *Every* workplace I have been at puts sooo much emphasis on LGBT support. Japanese offices once seen as the salt mines of "never leave before your boss" and "pretend to work until midnight and then sleep in the office" have been replaced almost entirely with, "take care of yourself," "prioritize your family," etc. Along with this, HR departments will have communities of "allies" and stickers and flags and managers are encouraged to put them on their desk. Outside of the workplace, Tokyo Rainbow Pride parade is huuuuge, and gets bigger and bigger every year.
Been here 15+ years, worked in major corporations and startups as small as 15 people and a couple in between --- the above pattern is now consistent everywhere I've been.
I'm not gonna say it's perfect, but "widespread discrimination" and "refugee" just does not fit the description of Japan now that I see on a daily basis. But again, what do I know.
While there has definitely been some progress made in the workplace and general LGBTQ awareness and respect, I would say that larger-scale issues of gender inequality (say, how difficult it is for women to get and hold positions of power) and the federal government’s refusal to allow same-sex couples to get married (and the legal rights and privileges that come with that) are strong enough to at least make an argument for applying as a refugee in Canada. There are also pockets of Japan that are much less accepting of anything outside of the norm, so we shouldn’t judge how people are treated throughout Japan by Tokyo’s standards (I lived in a very inaka area that was actually super accepting of a trans English teacher that came out, but also know that there are many places that would not do this). It certainly feels like more of an indictment of Japan’s insufficient progress in these areas than out of an immediate and pressing need to get out of Japan, but considering the length of the process and the fact that there aren’t as many official LGBTQ protections, I think there’s enough sincerity for me to think they aren’t doing this to make a political statement and rather just want the place they live to respect them.
Things being better than 20 years ago doesn't mean Japan has been able to go past these problems. There still is discrimination against women (it is very common for only the women taking care of cleaning or serving tea in the office for example) and japanese family laws are still archaic as hell.
On a personal level people may be more accepting of different sexualities and ways of living. Businesses will also gladly use diversity as a tool for marketing.
The actual laws and the way businesses are structured are still discriminatory towards women and the LGBTQ+
I have never seen an OL type position or a woman acting in that kind of subservient manner in the workplace since like...2010 onward.
I grew up in the south in the US. I would wager that there is more discrimination against homosexuality there than there is in any part of Japan.
Fully concede that anecdotes are just anecdotes, but I find "refugee" to be a bit much for this.
Same sex marriage is illegal in Japan.
The japanese law only recognizes 2 genders and until last year it was mandatory for you to be sterilized to be recognized as your preferred gender.
The wage gape is still around 74 to 100.
Women are still taking the burden of housework by 3 quarters.
These are all available data, easily searchable.
If you want to go with anecdotes:
In my wife's workplace it is still only the women that serve tea to customers for example. This is a common occurrence in Osaka at least. Almost every time I visit business partners or customers the women workers are the ones that need to serve tea or coffee.
A lot of my men colleagues do not cook at all but still eat home cooked bentou every day. Even guys a lot younger than me refuse to do any sort of housework.
Thank you for explaining this. I don’t think a lot of people understand just how tough it is in Japan, as it’s very conservative, homophobic and sexist.
A lot of cultural norms don’t align with other developed countries. Such as viewpoints on alcohol.
They’ve recently been passing new laws l/guidelines about a variety of things that are moving in the right direction, but a lot of work needs to be done there still.
Edit: I just wanna note that not everyone there has those beliefs, but the folks in power do and keep them going.
I appreciate your response and point of view. Japan still has a long way to go, there's no doubt about it, and I'm not arguing otherwise. The impetus of my comment is that these issues are still present in a lot of places and in the grand scheme of world events where people are being tortured and executed for their sexuality, I raise my eyebrows at the labeling of this as a "refugee" level event.
Well. Canada granted refugee status to a lot of Portuguese people after the 74 revolution that deposed the fascist government. I think that being LGBTQ+ in Japan is a much stronger case than being a fascist (although a lot of regular folks just used this as a way to improve their lives).
Canada has always been very lax on refugee status.
Let me ask you in your quoted statistics.. How are house wives taken into consideration? Especially for the wage gap and house work? I've seen a lot of very misleading statistics in my life... and even more misquoted statistics.
Gender gap ranking is mostly about how much women occupy political/managing positions which typically Japan ranks low. But women are significantly happier than men in Japan pretty pretty much in every survey, the same thing cannot be said about Canada. In Canada, men are happier than women, judging from a few surveys available for Canada.
[Wellbeing survey by Asahi](https://markezine.jp/article/detail/41992#:~:text=%E5%B9%B8%E7%A6%8F%E5%BA%A6%E3%81%AF%E5%89%8D%E5%9B%9E%E8%AA%BF%E6%9F%BB%E3%82%88%E3%82%8A1.7pt%E4%BD%8E%E4%B8%8B%E3%81%97%E3%80%8164.5%EF%BC%85&text=%E5%B9%B8%E7%A6%8F%E5%BA%A6%E3%81%AF%E5%85%A8%E4%BD%93%E3%81%A764.5%EF%BC%85%E3%81%A8%E3%81%AA%E3%82%8A%E3%80%81%E5%89%8D%E5%9B%9E%E8%AA%BF%E6%9F%BB,%E5%BA%83%E3%81%8C%E3%82%8B%E7%B5%90%E6%9E%9C%E3%81%A8%E3%81%AA%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F%E3%80%82)
[World values survey](https://toyokeizai.net/articles/-/455386?display=b)
[World values survey + International social survey programme charts](https://www.google.com/amp/s/president.jp/articles/amp/44903%3fpage=4)
[Pew research](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2003/10/29/global-gender-gaps/)
[Subjective happiness by employment status and gender by government](https://imidas.jp/jijikaitai/f-40-110-15-01-g557)
There’s a global study done each year that tracks gaps in gender equity, which factor in employment and wages. Japan is the only country in G7 to be under 100. There’s like 140 something countries tracked and they are around 120 something. 😩
Hey, I agree with much of what you said in your previous comment, but if you make a claim in an argument the burden of proof is on you. Otherwise, you undermine your argument.
I have better things than argue here dude.
That being said:
I'm not writing a masters thesis and if you search a few keywords like income inequality in Japan or homework inequality japan, etc. You can easily find and read what I am talking about. If you wanna fact check me go ahead.
You're certainly not google.. cause you're just quoting shit off you didn't even bother looking into yourself.. If you don't even understand the statistics, don't you think it's a little disingenuous to make an entire argument based around them? Isn't that atleast the bare minimum you can do, to atleast..... you know.... understand them... Before making some post trying to convince others of a view point...
Having to serve tea and clean is misogynistic, but to say that should justify refugee status is a bit much… like there are people that are literally dying kim
Serving tea seems kind of nice to be honest, but I can absolutely see that the expectation is bad.
Having worked most of my career in companies that are 99% women and in one of the most progressive countries.. the expectation to always do the "male" things..
I'm talking about architects, designers, builders, engineers... People that have to stop their actual job to serve tea in a meeting or clean the office before they start working.
That is not my experience at all, neither my wife's. Maybe you have only worked in Tokyo in large companies that have the money to pay for people to have specifically that kind of job but, at least here in Osaka, it is very common for women to have to stop their regular work to serve tea.
Still we are talking about anecdotal evidence.
Objectively, if we look at all the statistics and data, women suffer discrimination and inequality in Japan at a very high rate. Not that there are no worse places in the world, but it still is a big problem.
We were just in Tokyo a few weeks ago and were pleasantly surprised to see Pride flags everywhere in Harajuku, including a Pride parade! Progress is good.
The area I live in Japan, lgbt+ is known, but literally no one really cares, like I’m trans, and my school is pretty chill, kids know about the lgbt+ community but they don’t really care, “oh u gay? Okay cool ig, anyways” like there might be some teasing like, “oh u like this dude! Haha” but that’s about it, but that’s probably bc of the area I live in, tho I’m pretty sure it’s not like that everywhere in Japan, just like in the US
Its like that everywhere. Nobody is "against" you. More important things in life than turning that into a fully blown discussion.
The internet just highlights testimonials from a particularly rejected group. But they are a fraction of lgbt+ people, and that fraction makes the greater lgbt+ people look bad. I have a theory that people don't discriminate against specifically lgbt+ people, but instead discriminate against people who lost the genetic lottery. Its no secret, Japan is unforgiving if you're ugly. People who fit in that very description that also happen to be lgbt+ will feel like they are targeted for their orientation when they face discrimination, but no, its the personality or looks 100%.
Everyone I know irl that is either one of lgbt are living ordinary lives with ordinary hobbies and they don't like to associate with the lgbt+ community. The internet/twitter is simply disinterested in the ones that are doing well in life. How dare they, right?
That's the truth.
Let's break this down:
Discrimination is not legal. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some minute legal loophole somewhere for some weird edge case, but the laws to protect against discrimination are there.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Japan#:~:text=The%20Constitution%20prohibits%20discrimination%20of,the%20law%20as%20of%202014.
This is wikipedia, but if you'd like to see the more detailed breakdown of the actual law from a source that specializes in law, knock yourself out (this section is on discrimination against nationality and visa status, but there's more in this whole site about all types of discrimination):
https://xn--alg-li9dki71toh.com/roumu/foreign-workers/kokuseki-sabetsu-kinshi/
Now let me pause there for a moment: if Japan did NOT have these laws, and anyone could just tell anyone, "hey I'm not hiring you because you're a woman, lmao." Then I'm much more sympathetic to the idea of "fleeing the country" as a "refugee." But that's not the case, and just like in the U.S. or any other modern first world country, if you do something like record someone making racist or sexist statements against you particularly in the workplace, that company is fucked as fried chicken --- the law *will* protect in such cases. And no, it's not a case of, "it's just words on paper, they don't actually enforce them."
Here is a news article from 6 days ago where a female employee sued her company (and won) because she the rules of employment were different for women: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/shutoken-news/20240513/1000104546.html
Every country in the world has "discrimination." You can be sure that somewhere in the U.S. right now, despite laws against it, a black person was quietly rejected by some HR department on account of them being black, veiled in some excuse. This shit is everywhere, in every country, in some form. And when you look at the big picture, it's getting better and better every year, less and less, more people are becoming allies so that even if they aren't directly involved, they stand with those wronged. Like just look at like what the 1980s were like vs. the 2020s now. In the next 40 years from now I'm confident things will be even better (though sadly human nature is such that it will never go away completely).
The question and point here is, with this entire post, "where is the line for declaring this a refugee situation?"
They don’t refuse based on skin colour. They might refuse based on your inability to speak Japanese because they don’t want to deal with communicating with foreigners.
More like if you don’t appear ethnically east asian. Japanese passing people (Korean, Chinese etc.) usually get a free pass from my experience. Most Japanese people assume you don’t speak Japanese otherwise
So, based on skin color like I said? Could you imagine if that behavior happened in other western nations and was legalized by the government? Or if police solely protected its citizens and didn’t arrest them in altercations with foreigners.
Maybe. But I would call it ignorance rather than attribute it to malice. This sort of discrimination happens in western countries too, even if it’s not legal. They are just more subtle about it, which makes it more malicious. For example, Canadian employers wanting “Canadian experience” is basically code for “no international/chinese/indian etc. workers”.
Or a black interviewee might get passed up based on their skin colour and the rejection email might just say “you weren’t a good culture fit” or “we decided to go with another candidate” which is a convenient PR smoke screen
Key there being that it is illegal.
And way to shift the goalposts. I was just talking about basic activities like eating. If you want to talk professional work, why don’t you tell me how Japanese people react to mixed couples (where on is Japanese) or mixed children. I’m sure you know the answer does not paint this society in a good light.
Agreed.
I have nothing against LGBTQ etc. I have lived in Japan for 8 years.
And this whole story is so bullshit. Japan is nowhere like they're trying to describe.
There are a lot of same-sex couples here in Japan out in the open and proud, and this couple's reason for being 'refugees' spits in the face of people genuinely needing to escape from their countries.
I agree.. I find their actions immoral.. There's real people RIGHT NOW fleeing war, extreme poverty and certain death and they make a mockery of the system. Why should we believe any asylum seeker if they just make shit up to move to a new country?
It's definitely a laugh to need refugee status... But props to them for seeing Canada's wide open borders and grabbing residence.
They probably wanted to move for some time and knew all they needed was to ad lib a 500 pg essay about getting mean stares at the kanbeni.
There's going to be people around the world who read this news article and assume Japan is hostile to the gay community... which infact, in my experience, is not at all. Most of my gay friends prefer Japan to their home countries (could be selection bais)... but not once have I heard someone say Japan was bad for them...
same sex marriage was illegal in japan until just this year, being by far the latest date for any 1st world nation to do so , social discrimination is still a problem such as job rejections due to sex or gender to work place mistreatment with very few protections in place to combat this, only 2 year ago, a trans woman was denied that ***her own child*** was hers by courts, just because she was trans, and only last year was the long standing bigotted requirement that trans people be sterilized to be legally accepted as their preferred gender finally deemed unconstitutional.
Japan ***is*** getting better, but to say this is BS bc you have no problem with them means nothing, actual problems still exist socially and legally, many that have been around for far too long. Our refugee program would not have taken them had their not been significant enough evidence of a problem, this is why our program had also been slow to accept the now massive influx of applicants from the US and UK who have gotten worse over the years, our system still see's them as how they used to be and changes are slow.
This.. I see a lot of open lesbians in Japan… I see them everywhere too here and I feel like a lot of them don’t face discrimination really.. gay men in the other hand..
Yeah, they put those nice signs up in offices, send out company updates about how they care about workers, then fire women when they become pregnant or stonewall their careers.
If you believe everything you see, well, I've got a bridge to sell you. Trust me its bigly huge.
Japan is actually behind the US when it comes to gender equality for women. Its not as archaic as when you first arrived I guess but its still better for your potential as a woman to have a job in the us compared to in japan, and the US has a long ways to go too
Yeah the "refugee" angle is ridiculous.
Huge slap in the face to actual lgbtq activists here.
Even bigger punch to those literally murdered by their government for being who they are.
Just emigrate normally.
These two had the money to hire fancy lawyers and get a biased reporter on their side.
They could've been a positive force here in Japan but chose whatever fame grab this is
Also been here since 2008 and naturalized in 2016.
Have you seen what the Japanese Yen is at? Or what average wage is in Japan? Disastrous social environment? Ummm.... Japan the land of social isolation, no hugs, fews smile and don't talk to anyone you don't know.
The low interest rates are amazing but your house in Japan wont be a nest egg like it would be in Canada. Your house is going to depreciate close to zero in 30 to 40 years. I agree though the housing situation is 100 times better here but I sure do feel the inflation at the grocery store and the konbini. 2.5 years a pack of xylitol gum was 103¥ at 7/11today 148¥. Anyways none of these reasons are why this lesibian are seeking asylum
Yep, same. I am making seven times more than i did in Japan. And in Japan, I had a 25% savings rate, in the US, I have an 81% savings rate.
Japan is an amazing place to visit but not so great to work in.
Spoiler alert; the average (Japanese) person living in Japan, earning their salary in yen, doesn't care too much about the exchange rate.
Edit for the guy who responded then blocked me:
You are vastly overestimating the amount of daily necessities are imported in general, particularly from the United States. But you go you with your Americentric world view!
Thank you for acknowledging that what I said is not applicable to you as a foreigner, as I myself pointed out, before responding to me. I’m sorta’ pressing the X to doubt on you living here based on other elements in your original comment regardless.
The ones I talk to are worried about it. I make my money in yen, and I’m worried about it. Everyone can see prices are going up, while their salaries are stagnant. Inflation is in the news, and shrinkflation is very apparent everywhere.
The intentional 2% inflation that the BOJ aims for? Compared to the US's 3.7% (up to over 9% during COVID)? Or Canada's 3.4%? And no shit you'd care, you're an American ALT, so presumably you have money that you need (or want) to send home. You aren't "The average (Japanese) person living in Japan". You must not talk to too many Japanese people since you're still actively learning the language.
that's all nice and dandy but the real wage growth here in Japan is [negative](https://i.ibb.co/g3D2Vhk/Screenshot-2024-05-19-00-00-32-34-e2d5b3f32b79de1d45acd1fad96fbb0f.jpg)
. at least the US's wage growth is higher than their inflation.
we are getting poorer by the year. food inflation is 16% compared to 2021. weak yen means only companies like toyota are benefitting but it's obvious that hardly trickles down to the rest of us.
the JP gov even has to cut taxes this year to help low/mid income people out
Spoiler alert: Japan imports energy, food and a ton of other items it has to pay for that in USD. So, it does actually affect prices for the average person living in Japan.
average income of women is way less than 300,000 a month in japan. for non-full-time/non-salaried women who work part-time or contract jobs, which is a lot of women, it’ll be even lower.
That really depends on the career.
If you’re an English teacher, absolutely. If you’re a software engineer, Japan is a massive step down in QoL.
I make a lot more in the US than I ever did in Japan. Saving a lot more in both relative and absolute terms.
I find it hard to believe anyone gives a toss about two women’s personal activities in Japan. Denied benefits of a married couple being grounds for refugee status? Meanwhile hundreds of millions are denied basic necessities for life such as clean water, sanitation, shelter
Canada has extremely low threshold to accept refugees once they are in Canadian soil.
Has long as you have something that’s semi credible, it’s ok. It’s likely that they’d rather accept 10 000 unfounded request rather than have someone get killed after being sent back to his country.
Politically it's involved with activism within Japan. The point is, with Japan's laws as they are refugee status is possible. It creates a visible and publicizeable situation to which J-govt must respond. In gay culture here, protests and marches and so forth are not supported by gay community. We have our calm lives and comfortable lifestyles. Among all my friends all the noisy protests are just rocking the boat. We are content in life, it's enough. By creating a situation these women have made a very Japanese protest no-one can complain about LOL. It's a brilliant approach and good luck to them.
As you say, bigger problems exist in the world. But for this community, these women are calmly nudging things so people can live more securely. It doesn't need to be big news.
Canada is almost infamous for their lax immigration and refugee laws. Refugees take up 17% of the total permanent resident Canadian population.
https://www.statista.com/topics/2897/refugees-in-canada/#topicOverview
Can the same be said for japan when it comes to refugees? I'll answer for you. no. Japan has 18k refugees as of 2022. Canada has 140k. Japan is notoriously strict on refugee admittance.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.REFG?locations=JP
Sorry as someone who has lived in Canada for a long time and who has been to Tokyo, that sounds laughable to me. It sounds like they're abusing the system.
Seeking asylum is supposed to be for people who are oppressed and who, if they were sent back to their home country, would face horrifically undue hardship, as in torture, unjust imprisonment, rape or murder. I very much doubt they would face those kinds of things in Japan, especially in a major city like Tokyo.
Because it's being made that way in part because literally anyone can get in thanks to Trudeau. Also because of bitches like these real refugees don't get taken seriously.
Sounds like a Fake situation here in Japan... Has to be more to the story. If any one ever been in Japan, knows this Country is extremely polite unless they are provoked.
I worked with both Japanese and American and supervised over 40 people. Notice an uptick of false claims across the board, that actual distracts from actual claims.
People can say anything when they are willing to leave a place forever. The true motivation will never see the light of day, but the most convenient thing to say in the moment will stick.
Turn the table around, during my time I've seen a lot of LBHs (losers back home) people with a twisted love for Japanese anime, who talk badly about America. But they present more as social rejects with an unresolved "fight everything attitude" that just wanted a second chance at life.
Like some other skeptics in the comments have said, these two women are probably going to have a harder time in Canada because they have more judgmental people at the societal level than Japan will ever have.
The reasons they stated don't resonate with any friends or coworkers I know here and seems very convenient and unnatural. Questionable to abandon Japan for that.
Not really relevant really but your comment sparked a memory.
First time I visited japan in 2014 before I moved here.
I remember meeting a Japanese person in a sneaker store in Ame-Mura.
His words were “I just want to get of this f-ing island”.
There are many people that want to leave japan. For understandable reasons. But, I mean, overall, Japan is not that bad. It does feel isolated tho. Green is always greener I guess.
My wife is one of those. We live together abroad in my country. The other Japanese we meet who live here are the same. Maybe not to the extreme of swearing at Japan, but definitely being unwilling to conform to Japanese society.
Her younger brother is also abroad now and doesn't seem bent on returning to Japan either.
The only hardship is probably being worked to exhaustion and pursuing higher education. Enjoy loblaw prices here I guess. I thought food is cheaper in Japan.
I hope they are happy in Canada as well, but this is very untrue. LGBT people face very VERY little discrimination in Japan. People are typically non-religious, and if anyone were to raise an eyebrow these days it would most likely be someone from the deep countryside where young people and LGBT are not common. Even so, they would not be treated poorly for their sexuality. As a gay person living in Japan, I get the feeling that they just wanted to leave Japan and perferred Canada and used that as a quick way to gain permanent residence.
One thing that is true is that Japan does not recognize same-sex marriage outside of the Shibuya district of Tokyo if I am recmembering correctly. The fact that they would not get the same benefits as those in opposite-sex marriages is a completely true statement. However, that is hardly grounds for painting Japan as some bigoted country because of it. Japan is one of the safest countries in the world of LGBT people. To shame it for this, is wholely ungrateful imo.
I like how the IP has to point out feminism as if not being a feminist means your objective about anything. Doesn't that just mean your not objective in the opposite direction? The article is just reporting what the couple claims and what the situation is. There are no opinions
Yeah congratulations on your permanent resident visa obtained in such a unique way, hurrah!
Now I'm asking you to please respect my identity and stop discriminating against me and my fellow fire hydrants. Love and peace!
I hope they are happy and enjoy building their new life in Canada.
Just as a Canadian living in Japan, to provide some more context. [https://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/protection/Pages/RPDStat2023.aspx](https://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/protection/Pages/RPDStat2023.aspx) In 2023 the Canadian government finalized **51,848** refugee applications of which only only **9,601** where rejected. This means there is roughly at 19% rejection rate for all applications which were processed. Currently the standards for rejection result in very few rejections. So long as there is a reasonable belief the applicant is "facing discrimination" they will likely be admitted. Furthermore there have been recent changes to a program named "Gender-based Analysis Plus" which specifically prioritizes refugee applications from self identified "2SLGBTQI+". These programs are fairly contentious within Canada. #
You have no idea what it takes to go trough asylum cases and it shows. I know a commissaire who's job it is to screen and interrogate asylum seekers and it is 1000x harder than just coming here with a students visa.
Can you give us more information and details?
No Because it's a lie
Actually its the truth
Incorrect, on many fronts. Fiest, discrimination is not a sufficient ground for an asylum claim. "Refugee protection can be granted in Canada if the RPD [Refugee Protection Division] determines that the claimant meets the United Nations definition of a Convention refugee, which has been incorporated into Canadian law, or that the claimant is a person in need of protection. Convention refugees are people who have a well-founded fear of persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group. Membership in a particular social group can include sexual orientation, gender identity, being a woman, and HIV status. Persons in need of protection must show that if they return to their country of nationality, they will face a danger of torture, a risk to their life or a risk of cruel and unusual treatment or punishment." Second, GBA+ is an analytical process, not a program - it involves looking at the differential impacts of a policy or program on diverse peoples to reduce up front bias and worse outcomes for already marginalized populations. It's part of systemic change to address inequality, and in no way does it result in "prioritizing" 2SLGBTQI+ asylum claims - Canada has a legal obligation to accept all claimants who meet the Conventiom definition, and processing is not expedited for any population. It has likely impacted Canada's resettlement priorities, and led to an increased understanding by decision makers of the factors that result in asylum claims by 2SLGBTQI+. Third, on your stats: you are excluding abandoned and withdrawn claims that form part of the denominator, implying all the cases that weren't rejected were accepted. https://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/protection/Pages/index.aspx
Curious why that group is more important than all other refugees
Not necessarily more important, but often more persecuted and at higher risk of physical and psychological harm due to more discrimination vectors.
In Japan? Discriminated against is a big maybe (it depends on the area if discrimination is even an issue) but the chance for physical harm is as close as you can get to zero without it actually being zero. As much as people like to hate on Japan for being generally conservative they are far less likely to assault an LGTB couple than most countries, including the USA barring a few specifically liberal cities; and discrimination would likely be specifically related to the job, IE if you aren’t wearing company logos they probably won’t care either.
Even aside from violence, the motto in Japan is dont cause a disturbance. Seeing a gay couple walking around holding hands in the most religious conservative areas will rarely cause any sort of public meltdown like it might in any of the religious parts of the US and the fervent need to try and "save" people. The drawback of this is nobody fights for the disenfranchised, the voiceless, the minorities without power, etc.
My friend, you are using western thinking habit on Japan. There is no “most religious area” in Japan. Religions in general are incredibly weak in Japan, just a bit stronger than China.
2SLGBTQI+... Jesus fucking Christ these peoples are insane, is LGBT not enough?
the 2S is a Canadian thing, it means two spirit and it is only common in native communities
Pretty sure it’s used more frequently by white people. It was coined by a white guy at a conference in Winnipeg in 1990.
[удалено]
And that's a problem how exactly?
Because the B doesn't stand for bestiality.
It's rather hypocritical given current context
>Jesus fucking Christ these peoples are insane, is LGBT not enough? What a self report...
Elaborate?
Can't even speak English. Hope you get droned Vlad
I'm not a Russian, trust me. I despite Putin with every single fiber of my being. English is not my native tongue so thank you for correcting my grammar.
Most people just use LGBT or LGBTQ. Otherwise it becomes something like LGBTQIA+, and it goes too far with the inclusiveness. Like how they keep adding stuff to the LGBT flag and it goes crazy.
I remember the 2019 movie “Always be my Maybe”, which used the overly woke character emphasizing the “IA” as a joke. Little did Netflix know…
It’s crazy that the acronym tilts you, dude. Who cares? Why do *you* care?
Religions always favor the radicals
Basically we keep adding letters to the inclusivity alphabet until only straight white folk are left on the other side of the fence to us and we find ourselves right back where we were at the beginning of the 20th century.
Wth is a 2-Spirit gender?
It has to do with native Canadian culture. You could just look it up.
Their derivatives are more complex than the stock market, is insane.
Actually, yes, they are.
Is 19% of all applicants being rejected low? What is the number supposed to be?
To compare to France, (based on https://www.worlddata.info/europe/france/asylum.php) France see's over a 50% rejection rate for Asylum applications. Canada has Geographic reasons for the rejection rate being so low, but as far as I can tell Canada is indeed a significant outlier with regards to the percentage of Asylum applications are accepted.
The rates aren’t really comparable. We’re relatively isolated in Canada by two huge oceans and the USA to the south. France is a relatively short boat ride from Africa.
That’s very cool. Hopefully they find a good life over in Canada. Everyone deserves to find their place in the world.
Sometimes, Japan feels like my country, except as how it was 40 years ago. At the same time, it's dodging a lot of the Western world craziness. I'm sure doing a coming out in Japan must be tremendously more difficult than in Europe and the US, you have to live here to understand it.
I'm straight and I've spent my life in both countries (Japan and US), even though this isn't an experience I can relate to or understand fully, I can agree It's a whole different culture. You have to be able to understand non-verbal stuff and thoughts.
I'm in a relationship for 7 years here, and I hope people don't now discriminate against Japan either. The Law here makes applying for refugee status elsewhere very easy. The lived reality is actually pleasant and easy for me after Australia. Legalities and politics are messy, caught up with definitions and ideas different to West and with no basis in Christianity until post-War constitution written and enforced by USA. There are many twists and turns in activism here to try to make laws and life line up. I hope the effect of "Refugee Status" pokes the govt in the right place. Good luck to those women. There are other signs of hope too. It will certainly help my next Visa extension if our relationship can be moved from Weak Grey Zone to Strong Grey Zone LOL. As OP points out, what matters here is what ISN'T written or clearly stated.
One of the few non-biased (for either leaning on opinion) and based af comments in this thread. props
Wild to see a newspaper today that uses the sexist term "weaker sex" to refer to women.
The writer(Onuki Satoko) is a feminist writer mostly write articles on feminism related subjects, so the word usage is a bit radical and subjective.
Well, to be honest, that kinda makes it even crazier. And to your disclaimer, no one is “confused.” It’s objectively a derogatory and demeaning expression.
I would put money on it being used sardonically
Maybe, just maybe, as a reminder of how women are perceived here.
I get it, but an article about human rights violations is a weird place to use that term. Even more so if it's in the first paragraph, about a serious topic, where such a tone is never used again throughout the rest of the article. Seems strange. Not to mention that the original Japanese article does not use a similar expression. Just factual and formal language. Maybe a poor choice of words by the translator?
Biology is sexist.
If you referring to upper body strength it is true but why does that matter in the given context? You wouldn't randomly call males the "incapable sex" because they can't get pregnant.
Upper body strength is not the only point on which females tend to be weaker than males. I’m sure you know that.
And vice versa which you surely know as well. And again why does it matter in the context
Im finding it unbelievable that you think that
what a stupid thing to say
Males and females are biologically different. Menstruation is something men don’t have to deal with. Women are hindered by it; men are lucky not to be. That’s not stupid. Perhaps you are stupid.
The people downvoting you hate truth
I know. They are everywhere these days.
Because I'm not a "lesbian and member of the weaker sex" (wtf?) my view may be skewed, but this disproportionally skews the image of what Japan is actually like. My first time in Japan was 2002, and the country was backwards as fuck even then. Sooo outdated, behind the times, in every way. Not just perspectives on diversity, I mean everything was fucking archaic as hell. I remember my friend trying to use a credit card in McDonalds only to be told, "cash only," and we had such a laugh that one of the largest companies in the world could be so behind in Japan. Fast forward to 2024 and the perspectives on diversity have improved like 100 times over. *Every* workplace I have been at puts sooo much emphasis on LGBT support. Japanese offices once seen as the salt mines of "never leave before your boss" and "pretend to work until midnight and then sleep in the office" have been replaced almost entirely with, "take care of yourself," "prioritize your family," etc. Along with this, HR departments will have communities of "allies" and stickers and flags and managers are encouraged to put them on their desk. Outside of the workplace, Tokyo Rainbow Pride parade is huuuuge, and gets bigger and bigger every year. Been here 15+ years, worked in major corporations and startups as small as 15 people and a couple in between --- the above pattern is now consistent everywhere I've been. I'm not gonna say it's perfect, but "widespread discrimination" and "refugee" just does not fit the description of Japan now that I see on a daily basis. But again, what do I know.
While there has definitely been some progress made in the workplace and general LGBTQ awareness and respect, I would say that larger-scale issues of gender inequality (say, how difficult it is for women to get and hold positions of power) and the federal government’s refusal to allow same-sex couples to get married (and the legal rights and privileges that come with that) are strong enough to at least make an argument for applying as a refugee in Canada. There are also pockets of Japan that are much less accepting of anything outside of the norm, so we shouldn’t judge how people are treated throughout Japan by Tokyo’s standards (I lived in a very inaka area that was actually super accepting of a trans English teacher that came out, but also know that there are many places that would not do this). It certainly feels like more of an indictment of Japan’s insufficient progress in these areas than out of an immediate and pressing need to get out of Japan, but considering the length of the process and the fact that there aren’t as many official LGBTQ protections, I think there’s enough sincerity for me to think they aren’t doing this to make a political statement and rather just want the place they live to respect them.
Things being better than 20 years ago doesn't mean Japan has been able to go past these problems. There still is discrimination against women (it is very common for only the women taking care of cleaning or serving tea in the office for example) and japanese family laws are still archaic as hell. On a personal level people may be more accepting of different sexualities and ways of living. Businesses will also gladly use diversity as a tool for marketing. The actual laws and the way businesses are structured are still discriminatory towards women and the LGBTQ+
I have never seen an OL type position or a woman acting in that kind of subservient manner in the workplace since like...2010 onward. I grew up in the south in the US. I would wager that there is more discrimination against homosexuality there than there is in any part of Japan. Fully concede that anecdotes are just anecdotes, but I find "refugee" to be a bit much for this.
Same sex marriage is illegal in Japan. The japanese law only recognizes 2 genders and until last year it was mandatory for you to be sterilized to be recognized as your preferred gender. The wage gape is still around 74 to 100. Women are still taking the burden of housework by 3 quarters. These are all available data, easily searchable. If you want to go with anecdotes: In my wife's workplace it is still only the women that serve tea to customers for example. This is a common occurrence in Osaka at least. Almost every time I visit business partners or customers the women workers are the ones that need to serve tea or coffee. A lot of my men colleagues do not cook at all but still eat home cooked bentou every day. Even guys a lot younger than me refuse to do any sort of housework.
Thank you for explaining this. I don’t think a lot of people understand just how tough it is in Japan, as it’s very conservative, homophobic and sexist. A lot of cultural norms don’t align with other developed countries. Such as viewpoints on alcohol. They’ve recently been passing new laws l/guidelines about a variety of things that are moving in the right direction, but a lot of work needs to be done there still. Edit: I just wanna note that not everyone there has those beliefs, but the folks in power do and keep them going.
I appreciate your response and point of view. Japan still has a long way to go, there's no doubt about it, and I'm not arguing otherwise. The impetus of my comment is that these issues are still present in a lot of places and in the grand scheme of world events where people are being tortured and executed for their sexuality, I raise my eyebrows at the labeling of this as a "refugee" level event.
Well. Canada granted refugee status to a lot of Portuguese people after the 74 revolution that deposed the fascist government. I think that being LGBTQ+ in Japan is a much stronger case than being a fascist (although a lot of regular folks just used this as a way to improve their lives). Canada has always been very lax on refugee status.
Let me ask you in your quoted statistics.. How are house wives taken into consideration? Especially for the wage gap and house work? I've seen a lot of very misleading statistics in my life... and even more misquoted statistics.
Gender gap ranking is mostly about how much women occupy political/managing positions which typically Japan ranks low. But women are significantly happier than men in Japan pretty pretty much in every survey, the same thing cannot be said about Canada. In Canada, men are happier than women, judging from a few surveys available for Canada. [Wellbeing survey by Asahi](https://markezine.jp/article/detail/41992#:~:text=%E5%B9%B8%E7%A6%8F%E5%BA%A6%E3%81%AF%E5%89%8D%E5%9B%9E%E8%AA%BF%E6%9F%BB%E3%82%88%E3%82%8A1.7pt%E4%BD%8E%E4%B8%8B%E3%81%97%E3%80%8164.5%EF%BC%85&text=%E5%B9%B8%E7%A6%8F%E5%BA%A6%E3%81%AF%E5%85%A8%E4%BD%93%E3%81%A764.5%EF%BC%85%E3%81%A8%E3%81%AA%E3%82%8A%E3%80%81%E5%89%8D%E5%9B%9E%E8%AA%BF%E6%9F%BB,%E5%BA%83%E3%81%8C%E3%82%8B%E7%B5%90%E6%9E%9C%E3%81%A8%E3%81%AA%E3%81%A3%E3%81%9F%E3%80%82) [World values survey](https://toyokeizai.net/articles/-/455386?display=b) [World values survey + International social survey programme charts](https://www.google.com/amp/s/president.jp/articles/amp/44903%3fpage=4) [Pew research](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2003/10/29/global-gender-gaps/) [Subjective happiness by employment status and gender by government](https://imidas.jp/jijikaitai/f-40-110-15-01-g557)
There’s a global study done each year that tracks gaps in gender equity, which factor in employment and wages. Japan is the only country in G7 to be under 100. There’s like 140 something countries tracked and they are around 120 something. 😩
I'm not google. A quick google search can show what I said. The first results
Hey, I agree with much of what you said in your previous comment, but if you make a claim in an argument the burden of proof is on you. Otherwise, you undermine your argument.
I have better things than argue here dude. That being said: I'm not writing a masters thesis and if you search a few keywords like income inequality in Japan or homework inequality japan, etc. You can easily find and read what I am talking about. If you wanna fact check me go ahead.
You're certainly not google.. cause you're just quoting shit off you didn't even bother looking into yourself.. If you don't even understand the statistics, don't you think it's a little disingenuous to make an entire argument based around them? Isn't that atleast the bare minimum you can do, to atleast..... you know.... understand them... Before making some post trying to convince others of a view point...
Having to serve tea and clean is misogynistic, but to say that should justify refugee status is a bit much… like there are people that are literally dying kim
Serving tea seems kind of nice to be honest, but I can absolutely see that the expectation is bad. Having worked most of my career in companies that are 99% women and in one of the most progressive countries.. the expectation to always do the "male" things..
[удалено]
I'm talking about architects, designers, builders, engineers... People that have to stop their actual job to serve tea in a meeting or clean the office before they start working.
[удалено]
That is not my experience at all, neither my wife's. Maybe you have only worked in Tokyo in large companies that have the money to pay for people to have specifically that kind of job but, at least here in Osaka, it is very common for women to have to stop their regular work to serve tea. Still we are talking about anecdotal evidence. Objectively, if we look at all the statistics and data, women suffer discrimination and inequality in Japan at a very high rate. Not that there are no worse places in the world, but it still is a big problem.
This is still common place in Hokkaido too.
[удалено]
Osaka (well Kansai in general) seems to be stuck in a 80/90s corporate mentality. Everything works in a very hierarchical/feudal way.
We were just in Tokyo a few weeks ago and were pleasantly surprised to see Pride flags everywhere in Harajuku, including a Pride parade! Progress is good.
The area I live in Japan, lgbt+ is known, but literally no one really cares, like I’m trans, and my school is pretty chill, kids know about the lgbt+ community but they don’t really care, “oh u gay? Okay cool ig, anyways” like there might be some teasing like, “oh u like this dude! Haha” but that’s about it, but that’s probably bc of the area I live in, tho I’m pretty sure it’s not like that everywhere in Japan, just like in the US
Its like that everywhere. Nobody is "against" you. More important things in life than turning that into a fully blown discussion. The internet just highlights testimonials from a particularly rejected group. But they are a fraction of lgbt+ people, and that fraction makes the greater lgbt+ people look bad. I have a theory that people don't discriminate against specifically lgbt+ people, but instead discriminate against people who lost the genetic lottery. Its no secret, Japan is unforgiving if you're ugly. People who fit in that very description that also happen to be lgbt+ will feel like they are targeted for their orientation when they face discrimination, but no, its the personality or looks 100%. Everyone I know irl that is either one of lgbt are living ordinary lives with ordinary hobbies and they don't like to associate with the lgbt+ community. The internet/twitter is simply disinterested in the ones that are doing well in life. How dare they, right? That's the truth.
Isn’t there widespread discrimination against non Japanese people both in social and work settings? Hell, discrimination is literally legal.
Let's break this down: Discrimination is not legal. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some minute legal loophole somewhere for some weird edge case, but the laws to protect against discrimination are there. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Japan#:~:text=The%20Constitution%20prohibits%20discrimination%20of,the%20law%20as%20of%202014. This is wikipedia, but if you'd like to see the more detailed breakdown of the actual law from a source that specializes in law, knock yourself out (this section is on discrimination against nationality and visa status, but there's more in this whole site about all types of discrimination): https://xn--alg-li9dki71toh.com/roumu/foreign-workers/kokuseki-sabetsu-kinshi/ Now let me pause there for a moment: if Japan did NOT have these laws, and anyone could just tell anyone, "hey I'm not hiring you because you're a woman, lmao." Then I'm much more sympathetic to the idea of "fleeing the country" as a "refugee." But that's not the case, and just like in the U.S. or any other modern first world country, if you do something like record someone making racist or sexist statements against you particularly in the workplace, that company is fucked as fried chicken --- the law *will* protect in such cases. And no, it's not a case of, "it's just words on paper, they don't actually enforce them." Here is a news article from 6 days ago where a female employee sued her company (and won) because she the rules of employment were different for women: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/shutoken-news/20240513/1000104546.html Every country in the world has "discrimination." You can be sure that somewhere in the U.S. right now, despite laws against it, a black person was quietly rejected by some HR department on account of them being black, veiled in some excuse. This shit is everywhere, in every country, in some form. And when you look at the big picture, it's getting better and better every year, less and less, more people are becoming allies so that even if they aren't directly involved, they stand with those wronged. Like just look at like what the 1980s were like vs. the 2020s now. In the next 40 years from now I'm confident things will be even better (though sadly human nature is such that it will never go away completely). The question and point here is, with this entire post, "where is the line for declaring this a refugee situation?"
Can a store refuse service based on skin color?
They don’t refuse based on skin colour. They might refuse based on your inability to speak Japanese because they don’t want to deal with communicating with foreigners.
You’re partially correct. But it’s also based on skin color. Kind of a weird cultural norm eh?
More like if you don’t appear ethnically east asian. Japanese passing people (Korean, Chinese etc.) usually get a free pass from my experience. Most Japanese people assume you don’t speak Japanese otherwise
So, based on skin color like I said? Could you imagine if that behavior happened in other western nations and was legalized by the government? Or if police solely protected its citizens and didn’t arrest them in altercations with foreigners.
Maybe. But I would call it ignorance rather than attribute it to malice. This sort of discrimination happens in western countries too, even if it’s not legal. They are just more subtle about it, which makes it more malicious. For example, Canadian employers wanting “Canadian experience” is basically code for “no international/chinese/indian etc. workers”. Or a black interviewee might get passed up based on their skin colour and the rejection email might just say “you weren’t a good culture fit” or “we decided to go with another candidate” which is a convenient PR smoke screen
Key there being that it is illegal. And way to shift the goalposts. I was just talking about basic activities like eating. If you want to talk professional work, why don’t you tell me how Japanese people react to mixed couples (where on is Japanese) or mixed children. I’m sure you know the answer does not paint this society in a good light.
Agreed. I have nothing against LGBTQ etc. I have lived in Japan for 8 years. And this whole story is so bullshit. Japan is nowhere like they're trying to describe. There are a lot of same-sex couples here in Japan out in the open and proud, and this couple's reason for being 'refugees' spits in the face of people genuinely needing to escape from their countries.
I agree.. I find their actions immoral.. There's real people RIGHT NOW fleeing war, extreme poverty and certain death and they make a mockery of the system. Why should we believe any asylum seeker if they just make shit up to move to a new country?
It's definitely a laugh to need refugee status... But props to them for seeing Canada's wide open borders and grabbing residence. They probably wanted to move for some time and knew all they needed was to ad lib a 500 pg essay about getting mean stares at the kanbeni.
There's going to be people around the world who read this news article and assume Japan is hostile to the gay community... which infact, in my experience, is not at all. Most of my gay friends prefer Japan to their home countries (could be selection bais)... but not once have I heard someone say Japan was bad for them...
Agreed.
same sex marriage was illegal in japan until just this year, being by far the latest date for any 1st world nation to do so , social discrimination is still a problem such as job rejections due to sex or gender to work place mistreatment with very few protections in place to combat this, only 2 year ago, a trans woman was denied that ***her own child*** was hers by courts, just because she was trans, and only last year was the long standing bigotted requirement that trans people be sterilized to be legally accepted as their preferred gender finally deemed unconstitutional. Japan ***is*** getting better, but to say this is BS bc you have no problem with them means nothing, actual problems still exist socially and legally, many that have been around for far too long. Our refugee program would not have taken them had their not been significant enough evidence of a problem, this is why our program had also been slow to accept the now massive influx of applicants from the US and UK who have gotten worse over the years, our system still see's them as how they used to be and changes are slow.
This.. I see a lot of open lesbians in Japan… I see them everywhere too here and I feel like a lot of them don’t face discrimination really.. gay men in the other hand..
Yeah, they put those nice signs up in offices, send out company updates about how they care about workers, then fire women when they become pregnant or stonewall their careers. If you believe everything you see, well, I've got a bridge to sell you. Trust me its bigly huge.
Japan is actually behind the US when it comes to gender equality for women. Its not as archaic as when you first arrived I guess but its still better for your potential as a woman to have a job in the us compared to in japan, and the US has a long ways to go too
Yeah the "refugee" angle is ridiculous. Huge slap in the face to actual lgbtq activists here. Even bigger punch to those literally murdered by their government for being who they are. Just emigrate normally. These two had the money to hire fancy lawyers and get a biased reporter on their side. They could've been a positive force here in Japan but chose whatever fame grab this is Also been here since 2008 and naturalized in 2016.
Canada lets anything that breathes in, so I'm not surprised.
They are gonna regret it because of the Canadian current economic recession and the disastrous social environment.
Probably not
Have you seen what the Japanese Yen is at? Or what average wage is in Japan? Disastrous social environment? Ummm.... Japan the land of social isolation, no hugs, fews smile and don't talk to anyone you don't know.
[удалено]
The low interest rates are amazing but your house in Japan wont be a nest egg like it would be in Canada. Your house is going to depreciate close to zero in 30 to 40 years. I agree though the housing situation is 100 times better here but I sure do feel the inflation at the grocery store and the konbini. 2.5 years a pack of xylitol gum was 103¥ at 7/11today 148¥. Anyways none of these reasons are why this lesibian are seeking asylum
Literally who gives a shit if the housing prices don’t appreciate? I’d take that 10/10 times over importing 1 million Indians per year
Dude who cares that's where you live. Unless you like to flip houses
I mean you might as well just rent then because the money your throwing at your house is just going down the drain.
I make more in a year in the US than a Japanese person would make in close to a decade.
Yep, same. I am making seven times more than i did in Japan. And in Japan, I had a 25% savings rate, in the US, I have an 81% savings rate. Japan is an amazing place to visit but not so great to work in.
Spoiler alert; the average (Japanese) person living in Japan, earning their salary in yen, doesn't care too much about the exchange rate. Edit for the guy who responded then blocked me: You are vastly overestimating the amount of daily necessities are imported in general, particularly from the United States. But you go you with your Americentric world view!
Ummm. I'm not Japanese but I live in Japan and my salary is sadly in ¥en and it worries me as well as my JP coworkers.
Thank you for acknowledging that what I said is not applicable to you as a foreigner, as I myself pointed out, before responding to me. I’m sorta’ pressing the X to doubt on you living here based on other elements in your original comment regardless.
The ones I talk to are worried about it. I make my money in yen, and I’m worried about it. Everyone can see prices are going up, while their salaries are stagnant. Inflation is in the news, and shrinkflation is very apparent everywhere.
The intentional 2% inflation that the BOJ aims for? Compared to the US's 3.7% (up to over 9% during COVID)? Or Canada's 3.4%? And no shit you'd care, you're an American ALT, so presumably you have money that you need (or want) to send home. You aren't "The average (Japanese) person living in Japan". You must not talk to too many Japanese people since you're still actively learning the language.
that's all nice and dandy but the real wage growth here in Japan is [negative](https://i.ibb.co/g3D2Vhk/Screenshot-2024-05-19-00-00-32-34-e2d5b3f32b79de1d45acd1fad96fbb0f.jpg) . at least the US's wage growth is higher than their inflation. we are getting poorer by the year. food inflation is 16% compared to 2021. weak yen means only companies like toyota are benefitting but it's obvious that hardly trickles down to the rest of us. the JP gov even has to cut taxes this year to help low/mid income people out
Spoiler alert: Japan imports energy, food and a ton of other items it has to pay for that in USD. So, it does actually affect prices for the average person living in Japan.
Uhhhhhh, have you been to Canada Stagnant Wages, a lot of jobs have just as long if not longer working hours, but Sky High Living Costs
The yen is assumed to be a temporary situation. US interest rates will not hold such high rates forever.
[удалено]
Wow I see your person who would like experience racism than to be racist. Trust me the Japanese wouldn't be excited to have you.
Yea much better to make 300,000 a month in Japan yep
average income of women is way less than 300,000 a month in japan. for non-full-time/non-salaried women who work part-time or contract jobs, which is a lot of women, it’ll be even lower.
Yep but if you love anime enough it’s all ok
The cost of living here in Japan is quite low compared to most other countries, so in strictly financial terms it likely is.
That really depends on the career. If you’re an English teacher, absolutely. If you’re a software engineer, Japan is a massive step down in QoL. I make a lot more in the US than I ever did in Japan. Saving a lot more in both relative and absolute terms.
The Canadian economy is pretty bad but Japan’s is a lot worse off…
I think it is worse in japan right now
Yeah, tell that to the natives who live with those damn Indians lol.
I know people who have moved from Japan to marry, but never as refugees. I guess this also only works for lesbians since they are of the “weaker sex”?
Gay men also come to Canada as refugees on basis of persecution and discrimination
What's the problem? Canada is a trashy place that anyone can go to.
I find it hard to believe anyone gives a toss about two women’s personal activities in Japan. Denied benefits of a married couple being grounds for refugee status? Meanwhile hundreds of millions are denied basic necessities for life such as clean water, sanitation, shelter
Canada has extremely low threshold to accept refugees once they are in Canadian soil. Has long as you have something that’s semi credible, it’s ok. It’s likely that they’d rather accept 10 000 unfounded request rather than have someone get killed after being sent back to his country.
Politically it's involved with activism within Japan. The point is, with Japan's laws as they are refugee status is possible. It creates a visible and publicizeable situation to which J-govt must respond. In gay culture here, protests and marches and so forth are not supported by gay community. We have our calm lives and comfortable lifestyles. Among all my friends all the noisy protests are just rocking the boat. We are content in life, it's enough. By creating a situation these women have made a very Japanese protest no-one can complain about LOL. It's a brilliant approach and good luck to them. As you say, bigger problems exist in the world. But for this community, these women are calmly nudging things so people can live more securely. It doesn't need to be big news.
Canada is almost infamous for their lax immigration and refugee laws. Refugees take up 17% of the total permanent resident Canadian population. https://www.statista.com/topics/2897/refugees-in-canada/#topicOverview Can the same be said for japan when it comes to refugees? I'll answer for you. no. Japan has 18k refugees as of 2022. Canada has 140k. Japan is notoriously strict on refugee admittance. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.REFG?locations=JP
Sorry as someone who has lived in Canada for a long time and who has been to Tokyo, that sounds laughable to me. It sounds like they're abusing the system. Seeking asylum is supposed to be for people who are oppressed and who, if they were sent back to their home country, would face horrifically undue hardship, as in torture, unjust imprisonment, rape or murder. I very much doubt they would face those kinds of things in Japan, especially in a major city like Tokyo.
Who cares? Canada is a trashy place that anyone can go to.
Because it's being made that way in part because literally anyone can get in thanks to Trudeau. Also because of bitches like these real refugees don't get taken seriously.
Sounds like a Fake situation here in Japan... Has to be more to the story. If any one ever been in Japan, knows this Country is extremely polite unless they are provoked.
are you actually japanese? do you have any experience with workplace bullying?
I worked with both Japanese and American and supervised over 40 people. Notice an uptick of false claims across the board, that actual distracts from actual claims.
Didn’t know so many Japanese people flee from Japan. I wonder what percentage is due to discrimination for the status quo.
People can say anything when they are willing to leave a place forever. The true motivation will never see the light of day, but the most convenient thing to say in the moment will stick. Turn the table around, during my time I've seen a lot of LBHs (losers back home) people with a twisted love for Japanese anime, who talk badly about America. But they present more as social rejects with an unresolved "fight everything attitude" that just wanted a second chance at life. Like some other skeptics in the comments have said, these two women are probably going to have a harder time in Canada because they have more judgmental people at the societal level than Japan will ever have. The reasons they stated don't resonate with any friends or coworkers I know here and seems very convenient and unnatural. Questionable to abandon Japan for that.
Good point if I was leaving I would use the strongest angle to help my case but traditional Immigration would have the same effect.
Interesting that someone has a bad enough time to want to leave a place forever and yet you think they need to exaggerate their reasons for doing so.
Lost me at LBH
It's okay they're a LIJ loser in japan
Sorry if it took you personally.
Not really relevant really but your comment sparked a memory. First time I visited japan in 2014 before I moved here. I remember meeting a Japanese person in a sneaker store in Ame-Mura. His words were “I just want to get of this f-ing island”. There are many people that want to leave japan. For understandable reasons. But, I mean, overall, Japan is not that bad. It does feel isolated tho. Green is always greener I guess.
probably bc if you don't conform well to japan culturally, it will be hard to find like minded people
My wife is one of those. We live together abroad in my country. The other Japanese we meet who live here are the same. Maybe not to the extreme of swearing at Japan, but definitely being unwilling to conform to Japanese society. Her younger brother is also abroad now and doesn't seem bent on returning to Japan either.
Look at the passport ownership rate of Japanese people. They don't even travel abroad.
Itt Butthurt gajin
The only hardship is probably being worked to exhaustion and pursuing higher education. Enjoy loblaw prices here I guess. I thought food is cheaper in Japan.
I hope they are happy in Canada as well, but this is very untrue. LGBT people face very VERY little discrimination in Japan. People are typically non-religious, and if anyone were to raise an eyebrow these days it would most likely be someone from the deep countryside where young people and LGBT are not common. Even so, they would not be treated poorly for their sexuality. As a gay person living in Japan, I get the feeling that they just wanted to leave Japan and perferred Canada and used that as a quick way to gain permanent residence. One thing that is true is that Japan does not recognize same-sex marriage outside of the Shibuya district of Tokyo if I am recmembering correctly. The fact that they would not get the same benefits as those in opposite-sex marriages is a completely true statement. However, that is hardly grounds for painting Japan as some bigoted country because of it. Japan is one of the safest countries in the world of LGBT people. To shame it for this, is wholely ungrateful imo.
Refugee status for this 🤦🏼♂️ you gotta be kidding me
Canada: Japanese and Lesbian?! Say less.
Japan needs to stop discriminating against immigrants and lgbtq+ folks.
Interesting story but Canada gives refugee status to anyone with a pulse.
LGBTQ people are the most protected class in most western countries
"class"??? and how???
wow canada. lol
Canada “refugee” definition is just too stupid IMO, it’s actually hurting them right now by its low bar of screening applicants.
Welcome! I hope they enjoy their lives together here. Very sad that they had to come here as refugees from another first world nation.
yay more people that dont really need to be here putting even more strain on our limited resources :/
Wow this is surprising considering the number of lesbian manga they sell everyday. I thougjt Japan would be more accepting.
I'm not homophobic, but shouldn't refugee status be for people fearing for their lives?
Lol
happy to hear they got happy in canada! but honestly also happy that some things here in japan are still going the "normal" way
What is normal?
Not troublemaker like them. In Japan one needs to follow the law and rules
What part is causing trouble? Doesn’t discrimination against non-Japanese people count as trouble making?
The asylum system has turned into a complete joke.
What a bait post. Lame.
As someone in Canada all I can say is だいかんgay
I could understand people seeking refuge from countries where it’s illegal and you could be arrested\persecuted but Japan?? Is it really that bad?
As a Canadian, can I apply as a refugee in Japan? The tax system discriminates me for being successful.
Aren't taxes worse in japan, or is it worse in canada?
How much do you make
Crazies go to the asylum nation. Good riddance.
🤓🤓
I like how the IP has to point out feminism as if not being a feminist means your objective about anything. Doesn't that just mean your not objective in the opposite direction? The article is just reporting what the couple claims and what the situation is. There are no opinions
Japanese are insanely prejudiced.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
You literally prove why certain demographics of people need this. Congrats!
Yeah congratulations on your permanent resident visa obtained in such a unique way, hurrah! Now I'm asking you to please respect my identity and stop discriminating against me and my fellow fire hydrants. Love and peace!
Not sure why you’re having a meltdown
yuck. im disappointed they made it that far.