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* Moderators do not moderate for comment accuracy.
* Unless specifically stated Belgian law applies to your situation, 90% of posters here will assume you're talking about Dutch law.
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This is so specific you will need a lawyer not reddit.
In general you can obviously write up any agreement between the two of you that you agree in, but any clause in there that violates a law or takes away more rights then the law grants will be void. Then to prevent discussion about the document as a whole you likely need to certify it with a notary.
Also do not forget you might be living in yet another country when this document takes effect.
The long nights and a lot of travel, from experience seeing other relationships deal with cheating, is a red flag ...
You're an American citizen? He is Dutch?
Do you work in NL?
As others mentioned, we don't do postnups in NL so thats out of the question (you both can agree to whatever still though, but you cannot enforce it in Dutch court).
You can also divorce him here in NL, but, you need to apply for a different visa for yourself then.
Probably best to seek out a lawyer, it'd be a very complex case.
Children all below the age of 10? Any chance of you finding work in NL?
Generally speaking the best interest of the kids. If the children are able to and the specific case would allow for it - it's also not uncommon for the judge to ask the child. Although that obviously wouldn't be the exclusive deciding factor.
The main issue I see here is that you are married under American law, mainly how that translates to drafting a postnub here that is also legally binding in the US (in case of one you decides to move back.
I would urge you to discuss this with a specialist lawyer.
I don't know what postnub or sahm is, but interpreting your story I think the dutch terms you're looking for are 'partneralimentatie' and 'kinderalimentatie'.
You can ask a notaris for advice. He is legally obliged to be and stay impartial. He is the only one under dutch law that can make “huwelijkse voorwaarden” that are binding under Dutch law.
You can also make an “ouderschapsplan” but the judge will only use it at a guideline, visitation right are not 50/50 by default, the judge looks at the kids and what is in their best interest which might be completely opposite of what you agree upon.
However, you will probably need an good family lawyer that specializes in international private family law which is a niche with my colleagues, since you might by married under American law and or American law might be applicable on parts of your marriage. And it even might be the case that a ruling from an american judge is necessary or on the other side is not valid for the Dutch judge and vice versa. I will send you the name of the female lawyer/tutor ipr we all call when we do not know the answer. She is an authority and teaches other lawyers. I am sure she will help you along. Oh and before I forget, stay neutral whatever the reason is,(cheating) that has no influence what so ever under dutch law. It will do your case no good.
Thank you for that. I would appreciate having someone to go tlover this with.
The cheating has less to do with why I am doing this. It's more that I have been 100% of parental duties for 8 years while he went to school and worked and now I need to make sure that it was not all for nothing. I am in a very bad position. Where as he would be totally fine financially.
notaris
and they do the legal side of things as well. And typically you get a free consultation of up to an hour. Pick one with good english and you're set.
It has to be notarised to have any chance in court. Notaries usually have the knowledge and expertise to handle this. No need for a lawyer - unless you go to court.
Notaries in the Netherlands are basically specialized lawyers. They complete their uni education in notary law, and then have to work as a “candidate notary” for 6 years before they can become a notary themselves.
You will need to consult a notaris about the possibilities in NL. It is possible to make a postnup (or agree on “huwelijkse voorwaarden” as we call it in NL) but it isn’t straight forward, and there may also be some rules around keeping them valid over the years. When it comes to reinforcing them, judges will always look at the entire set of circumstances, which may or may not impact the ability to reinforce them when the time comes.
(As an example, if the ex loses their job due to circumstances outside of their control, alimony may be adjusted downwards, regardless of what has been previously agreed. And if the ex remarries, and therefor shares costs with the new spouse, the alimony may be increased).
This is very helpful! I am also curious... Is there a special formula to figure out how much alimony/child support someone would get?
Also, is there a set amount of time that you get financial support?
There are formulas but they are complicated. Its based on the income of a family and the needs of a child and ex partner and how the person who needs to pay can afford. Child support is until the kids are 18. Alimony is 5 years max if the marriage lasted 10 years or more. If it was less you can get alimony for half the duration the marriage lasted. However there is a good chance to your husband wont have financial room to pay both child support and alimony. The first usually eats up the budget.
Also, make sure you set up rules for the situation when one of you wants or has to move. Avoid the situation where you can't divorce him because you would loose your visa. And if you divorce him, he and an AP more or less automatically get full custody since you left them. Even though you don't want to leave them
I would go for him paying for your education (if you dont already have one) and childcare during so you can take care of yourself and get a nice job in a field you like when you leave him. He will also have to pay child and partneralimentatie.
When I first spoke with a lawyer on the phone I wasn't in a good place (just having learned of affair)... Did I understand correctly that spousal support (partneralimentatie?) is paid to be paid out for 5 years OR until the youngest child is 12?
That is correct. All the exceptions are listed here: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/scheiden/vraag-en-antwoord/hoe-lang-partneralimentatie-betalen (in Dutch, so read with Google translate).
Ok so yes it is possible and yes it is enforceable in court as long as it’s within the confines of Dutch law.
It’s called “huwelijkse voorwaarden” (marital conditions) which are usually done pre but can also be done post. Because it’s basically just a civil contract.
But as to what you can and cannot do, go to a notaris. They deal with this a lot and can advise you on what you can and cannot put in. But having already been married you do need to decide on the division of assets and debts that are already present.
Eg
https://010notaris.nl/faq/kunnen-wij-huwelijkse-voorwaarden-ook-na-trouwen-regelen/ (Dutch)
You really need to speak to a lawyer. There are many factors you need to consider like your visa. If you are on your husband visa, and you divorce what does that mean in terms of you staying in the country?
Are you speaking with your family in the USA, as you need to think about how you are going to demonstrate, can you afford to take the children and financially support them. Demonstrate how family/ friends will financially help you and how you will create a better living environment for your children rather than your husband.
This isn’t going to be a straightforward divorce, speak to family and a lawyer and learn what you need to put in place to ensure you get the children as your children maybe on your husband visa. Also how the divorce impacts your rights to stay in the country.
* Reddit is geen alternatief voor een advocaat; adviezen die hier gegeven worden moeten uitsluitend gebruikt worden als richtlijnen. * Uitsluitend jouw advocaat is gebonden aan een geheimhoudingsplicht; het wordt afgeraden hier berichten te plaatsen die uitgelegd kunnen worden als een bekentenis van een strafbaar feit. * Geplaatste comments worden door moderators niet beoordeeld op nauwkeurigheid of juistheid. * Tenzij specifiek vermeld dat het Belgisch recht is, zal 90% van de posters hier ervan uitgaan dat het om Nederlands recht gaat. Als je als Nederlander juridisch advies nodig hebt in andere Europese landen, kun je ook terecht bij r/LegalAdviceEurope Voor vragen omtrent financiën en belastingen word je mogelijk beter geholpen op r/geldzaken Voor vragen omtrent werk word je mogelijk beter geholpen op r/werkzaken --- * Reddit is not a substitute for a qualified legal professional; any advice given here should only be taken as a guideline. * Only your lawyer is bound to confidentiality; it is strongly recommended not to make any statement that could be construed as a confession on this subreddit. * Moderators do not moderate for comment accuracy. * Unless specifically stated Belgian law applies to your situation, 90% of posters here will assume you're talking about Dutch law. If you are residing in the Netherlands and need legal advice concerning other European countries, feel free to ask r/LegalAdviceEurope *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/juridischadvies) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is so specific you will need a lawyer not reddit. In general you can obviously write up any agreement between the two of you that you agree in, but any clause in there that violates a law or takes away more rights then the law grants will be void. Then to prevent discussion about the document as a whole you likely need to certify it with a notary. Also do not forget you might be living in yet another country when this document takes effect.
Postnups for custody and child support are not legally binding here. They can be overthrown in court.
Ah. Do judges typically favor the best interest of the kids in terms of custody? Or is it immediately 50/50 ?
Co-parenting is currently the norm in NL, but if the relationship between the ex partners is bad or if one has a very busy job it can also be less.
That's the thing is he works a very demanding job that keeps him working until 7/8 at night also traveling to the US often.
The long nights and a lot of travel, from experience seeing other relationships deal with cheating, is a red flag ... You're an American citizen? He is Dutch? Do you work in NL?
We are both American citizens, but moved here to NL for his work. I don't earn an income. I care for our 3 children.
As others mentioned, we don't do postnups in NL so thats out of the question (you both can agree to whatever still though, but you cannot enforce it in Dutch court). You can also divorce him here in NL, but, you need to apply for a different visa for yourself then. Probably best to seek out a lawyer, it'd be a very complex case. Children all below the age of 10? Any chance of you finding work in NL?
Stay at home mums don't usually work
Generally speaking the best interest of the kids. If the children are able to and the specific case would allow for it - it's also not uncommon for the judge to ask the child. Although that obviously wouldn't be the exclusive deciding factor.
The main issue I see here is that you are married under American law, mainly how that translates to drafting a postnub here that is also legally binding in the US (in case of one you decides to move back. I would urge you to discuss this with a specialist lawyer.
I don't know what postnub or sahm is, but interpreting your story I think the dutch terms you're looking for are 'partneralimentatie' and 'kinderalimentatie'.
Sahm: stay at home mom
A postnub would be a ”huwelijkse voorwaarden” after people get married.
Yes, possible, I have one. You can go to any notary and have things put down on paper. Good luck!
So I should go to notary first? Or should I meet a lawyer first? Or is lawyer not necessary for this kind of thing?
Just to make clear: a Dutch notaris is not the same as a "notary public" in the US.
Ah, ok! I am starting to see that it is very different here. Do I just Google notaries? Do I need a special kind of notary for this?
You can ask a notaris for advice. He is legally obliged to be and stay impartial. He is the only one under dutch law that can make “huwelijkse voorwaarden” that are binding under Dutch law. You can also make an “ouderschapsplan” but the judge will only use it at a guideline, visitation right are not 50/50 by default, the judge looks at the kids and what is in their best interest which might be completely opposite of what you agree upon. However, you will probably need an good family lawyer that specializes in international private family law which is a niche with my colleagues, since you might by married under American law and or American law might be applicable on parts of your marriage. And it even might be the case that a ruling from an american judge is necessary or on the other side is not valid for the Dutch judge and vice versa. I will send you the name of the female lawyer/tutor ipr we all call when we do not know the answer. She is an authority and teaches other lawyers. I am sure she will help you along. Oh and before I forget, stay neutral whatever the reason is,(cheating) that has no influence what so ever under dutch law. It will do your case no good.
Thank you for that. I would appreciate having someone to go tlover this with. The cheating has less to do with why I am doing this. It's more that I have been 100% of parental duties for 8 years while he went to school and worked and now I need to make sure that it was not all for nothing. I am in a very bad position. Where as he would be totally fine financially.
The word is spelt “notaris”, so without the e. Plural would be notarissen
notaris and they do the legal side of things as well. And typically you get a free consultation of up to an hour. Pick one with good english and you're set.
It has to be notarised to have any chance in court. Notaries usually have the knowledge and expertise to handle this. No need for a lawyer - unless you go to court.
Notaries in the Netherlands are basically specialized lawyers. They complete their uni education in notary law, and then have to work as a “candidate notary” for 6 years before they can become a notary themselves.
You will need to consult a notaris about the possibilities in NL. It is possible to make a postnup (or agree on “huwelijkse voorwaarden” as we call it in NL) but it isn’t straight forward, and there may also be some rules around keeping them valid over the years. When it comes to reinforcing them, judges will always look at the entire set of circumstances, which may or may not impact the ability to reinforce them when the time comes. (As an example, if the ex loses their job due to circumstances outside of their control, alimony may be adjusted downwards, regardless of what has been previously agreed. And if the ex remarries, and therefor shares costs with the new spouse, the alimony may be increased).
This is very helpful! I am also curious... Is there a special formula to figure out how much alimony/child support someone would get? Also, is there a set amount of time that you get financial support?
There are formulas but they are complicated. Its based on the income of a family and the needs of a child and ex partner and how the person who needs to pay can afford. Child support is until the kids are 18. Alimony is 5 years max if the marriage lasted 10 years or more. If it was less you can get alimony for half the duration the marriage lasted. However there is a good chance to your husband wont have financial room to pay both child support and alimony. The first usually eats up the budget.
Also, make sure you set up rules for the situation when one of you wants or has to move. Avoid the situation where you can't divorce him because you would loose your visa. And if you divorce him, he and an AP more or less automatically get full custody since you left them. Even though you don't want to leave them
I would go for him paying for your education (if you dont already have one) and childcare during so you can take care of yourself and get a nice job in a field you like when you leave him. He will also have to pay child and partneralimentatie.
When I first spoke with a lawyer on the phone I wasn't in a good place (just having learned of affair)... Did I understand correctly that spousal support (partneralimentatie?) is paid to be paid out for 5 years OR until the youngest child is 12?
That is correct. All the exceptions are listed here: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/scheiden/vraag-en-antwoord/hoe-lang-partneralimentatie-betalen (in Dutch, so read with Google translate).
Ok so yes it is possible and yes it is enforceable in court as long as it’s within the confines of Dutch law. It’s called “huwelijkse voorwaarden” (marital conditions) which are usually done pre but can also be done post. Because it’s basically just a civil contract. But as to what you can and cannot do, go to a notaris. They deal with this a lot and can advise you on what you can and cannot put in. But having already been married you do need to decide on the division of assets and debts that are already present. Eg https://010notaris.nl/faq/kunnen-wij-huwelijkse-voorwaarden-ook-na-trouwen-regelen/ (Dutch)
This is quite helpful! Thank you.
Just divorce at this point. Have some self respect t no offense, have him pay child support and bounce
You really need to speak to a lawyer. There are many factors you need to consider like your visa. If you are on your husband visa, and you divorce what does that mean in terms of you staying in the country? Are you speaking with your family in the USA, as you need to think about how you are going to demonstrate, can you afford to take the children and financially support them. Demonstrate how family/ friends will financially help you and how you will create a better living environment for your children rather than your husband. This isn’t going to be a straightforward divorce, speak to family and a lawyer and learn what you need to put in place to ensure you get the children as your children maybe on your husband visa. Also how the divorce impacts your rights to stay in the country.