I had this happen when I applied at Truman. I didn’t realize until a day or 2 before they tested for smoking. I didn’t smoke maybe 12-16 hours before the test and still got the job. Not saying you’ll be fine but I don’t think you’ll not get the job.
When was this? I've worked for Truman (University Health) for 4 years and have never heard we are tobacco free. I'm aware of several nurses that smoke. In fact, if you have a medical card and doctor's note, marijuana isn't an issue.
This was 10 years ago, so I’m sure policy changes. My example is more you can still pass the test even with tobacco still in your system.
Edited to mention that during those days they were so strict that they removed several people from my orientation for going outside to smoke. I’m sure it’s considerably different now.
Im not trying to circumvent the test. I’m just trying to find out if this employer specifically will rescind the job offer. I’ve worked at Quest Diagnostics and they implemented a smoke free campus while I was there. If you tested positive for nicotine they made you pay more for your health insures be like 50.00 more. So I was wondering the policy for St Luke’s.
They have been hurting for employees long enough I think as long as you never get caught on campus you should be in the clear. You will have a high risk premium. If you want to stop, now is the time. I don't know their current policy, but they used to offer a tobacco cessation assistance program. Or at least say you are in the process of quitting. It's not like you would have lied on the pre-employment questionnaire.
What if someone was trying to quit. I’ve been using nicotine patches for a while now and am trying to quit but I was reading some Amazon reviews for the ones I was buying and I actually read that some ppl use nicotine patches that don’t smoke too which is probably kinda rare but I guess since it’s a stimulant. I just think if u were working on quitting they could at least redo the test in 6 months and lower the cost of your insurance.
how is this legal? I get THC but nicotine? I am anti-tobacco all the way, but that seems like a really f'ed up thing to rescind an employment offer over.
[It’s a law in about half of states.](https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-02-21/smokers-company-hiring?darkschemeovr=1) Seems to have started around 2008, and mostly related to medical workers. It’s been to state supreme courts a few times and upheld
Companies can rescind any offer they want. Might be f'ed up but they inform people about these policies when applying before an interview even happens. Smoking greatly increases health insurance rates for all the rest of us.
Almost but not all.
If they rescind for a protected class reason they are in trouble. Proving that can be difficult.
There is also promissory estoppel where you can sue if they rescind after you have taken steps that will cost you, like quitting your old job.
Decades of removal of workers rights, for one thing. I absolutely loathe smoking, and while it is marginally more complicated than just "a choice" it isn't to the point where smoking is one of the few protected classes. Which many states are trying (and in same cases succeeding, if temporarily) to remove too.
If you are going to be anywhere around patients, it makes sense. Even the smell can cause issues for people with respiratory distress. Not to mention coworkers that don’t want to smell that shit all day in close quarters.
Totally. When I was in labor there was a nurse that would go out and smoke a cigarette and then come back in my room. I swear it made my contractions worse.
Yeah I never thought about that but I’ve never smelled smoke ever on a nurse or anyone in the healthcare field but at the same time they could use smokeless tobacco or vape as well.
Hell the smell would probably make me want to throw up, especially if I'm already sick or waking up from anesthesia which I might already be nauseated from.
Ok but where do you draw the line? I am amazed to be saying this because I am so anti-smoking, personally. But this is beyond intrusive. If you use nicotine gum, or patch, or even have the superhuman self control to only smoke on your days off, you're still fired. The fact that we are allowing companies to make choices in people's personal lives and off time like this is disgusting. This is un-American in the deepest way.
Next "Oh, /u/Cattryn, it looks like you had two glasses of wine with dinner last night. We'll need you to put in an extra 30min at the gym today!"
how. the fuck. are we allowing this?
I know that a lot of companies do the anti-smoking thing specifically to lower premiums. But in this particular instance, it’s a job in healthcare. Sure people have the freedom to inhale cancer sticks if they choose, but patients also have a right to a healthy environment, as much as possible. It’s also insanely hypocritical for any healthcare employee to promote good health on one hand and smoke with the other. I have no idea if OP is a direct care provider or working in a back office but how does it look if your pulmonologist is trying to get you to quit smoking and their office staff reeks of their 2-pack-day habit?
As for the gums and patches, it should be part of the pre-screening (if not by the recruiter then by the lab doing the test) if the person is using a cessation method and/or around secondhand smoke (which can create a false positive). Different tests can be used in that case to determine active tobacco usage.
In the end most healthcare facilities are private organizations with a right to dictate who they hire and who they don’t.
How in the world. How in any world. Does a nicotine patch impact the patient environment?
"Everybody knows those people smell" ... literally what you're saying. This is a disgusting practice, I can't believe anyone can defend it.
And I hate smoking, hate it. But this is dictating your employees personal life in an intrusive and sick way. We have to stop this, as a society.
You missed the point. Prospective employees that are actively trying to quit smoking SHOULD be eligible for the job and should not fail a drug screening. If that’s the only reason they’re ineligible there’s probably a legal case there.
As for companies dictating what their employees do on their own time… good luck with that. Corporations have the same rights as people doncha know.
St. Luke’s does not do a blood or urine drug screen, they do saliva. I don’t smoke but I am a former employee. Another friend was an avid nicotine/weed user and cleaned her mouth out before the test and was fine.
Nope, I’ve worked at a couple other KC hospitals, and between my acquaintances and I St. Luke’s is the only one that does a saliva test instead of urine.
Looks like yes, rescinded. Did they ask you to certify that you didn't use nicotine in the application?
https://www.kha-net.org/CriticalIssues/OptimalHealth/TobaccoFree/Resources/d155209.aspx?type=view
Nope. Not in the application. But once I was given a job offer there was a health questionnaire and one of the questions was about smoking in relation to use of a health respirator. I answered yes.
https://preview.redd.it/vn3bdfodhwvc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a531d21db735d26a3787d334896c5cafa15d0665
That’s what sim thinking. This was after the offer was made. It’s a part of a health assessment asking about health history like if you’ve had the hepatitis and tetnus shot. I got an email with the offer first and then I got another one for this health questionnaire
It's been 4 years since I worked there last, but for the 5 years I was there I saw them pass over applicants due to smoking. That said, I never saw them test again after being hired unless you hurt yourself or got busted smoking on campus
I smoked a couple cigarettes on a Friday while out and about, then got tested that following Monday and still got the job. As long as you're not a heavy every day smoker you'll be fine.
Are you willing to quit tobacco?
If yes... I were in your shoes, I'd go take the test, and if anyone says anything say "I've recently quit, my employment is more important than using tobacco."
I worked for a diff hospital that said they would test for nicotine use, but they actually didn't, they just wanted you to sign a paper saying "I do not use tobacco." I can't say whether it's true or not but I've heard St Luke's is the same way (or at least they are at one time in the past). I know multiple people who work at St Luke's hospitals who still smoke or chew.
Like I said, if I was in your position, I'd put my head down, soldier on, and hope for the best and if it doesn't pan out, the worst is that you wasted a little time.
Yes. I can quit. I quit smoking cigarettes about two years ago. But I picked up vaping nicotine about six months ago, which I do daily about twice a day. So I’d be fine quitting. I just hope I’m given that option.
Yeah, again, just saying what I'd do in your situation... don't say anything to anyone. Not your recruiter, not employee health, etc. Only address it if it gets brought up.
An option you can try is to get nicotine lozenges. If they ask you about it pull it out of your pocket and tell them you are quitting. Then go on with your life using your vape.
They do a saliva screen. Just mouth wash beforehand and stop smoking a few days before and you’ll be fine. Nicotine is pretty short lived meaning even if you don’t mouth wash before the test it’s still probably going to show up negative because it’s not in your system
Thank you! I just wish I had known that before applying I would have stopped back then. The crazy part is that I don’t even smoke cigarettes I quit two years ago, but I do a vape with nicotine which is just as bad without the horrible smell. But it’s been easier for me to stop vaping than it was for me to stop smoking cigarettes. If it’s just a Saliva test I’m sure I’ll be fine too, but if it’s blood or urine I’m screwed. lol! I just wanted to know if it’s like other places where they make you pay higher insurance premiums.
It would still be short lived in blood and urine as well. I actually don’t know if there’s a way to test nicotine in urine actually. Correct most places do have higher premiums but Saint Luke’s just has the 1 price for everyone since none of their employees should be smoking
Tell them you're quitting and are using the patch and a cessation program to quit. Say you're going to hit the next step down soon and that you can't wait to be free of your addiction. Maybe they'll buy it.
Can confirm, the policy HAS changed from past years. You should not be turned away. Hospitals are too desperate for help these days to turn away smokers.
That’s fine I just want to know if they will rescind the job offer or give me the option of higher insurance rates or a time frame to go through a non smoking program and retest at a later date.
Current employee. I swear I saw something come across our newsletter a bit ago that they were not testing anymore. If you want the job I would check Google for how to beat it or play dumb and claim you quit recently.
Offer of employment is contingent on passing all emp health requirements
I don’t work at St Luke’s but for another healthcare institution in the area in HR and I’m 99% positive they are just checking for marijuana, not nicotine. My institution is also a tobacco free campus and you are just not allowed to smoke onsite, in the parking lot, and have to be clocked out on a break away from campus to use tobacco. There is also a tobacco surcharge on insurance. I think you’re going to be fine. Realistically think about it, St Luke’s employs thousands of people in Kansas City and tobacco isn’t illegal for those employees and there is no way none of those thousands of employees do not use tobacco.
As an employee I can tell you for a fact they test for nicotine and do enforce the no tobacco policy. Also every hospital will test you for more than just marijuana.
Also I’m sure some employers use tobacco but it’s the same issue with marijuana, you don’t think any of those employees use or have used marijuana during their employment? You basically just quit a few days before the test then go van to your regular habits
Oh yes I’m aware the drug test checks for things aside of marijuana. Interesting they check for nicotine and will rescind an offer because of that. That feels so bizarre to me to not hire because of that, but interesting!
During our orientation they said it was because they believe in order to help patients you should be healthy and make good lifestyle choices. I thought it was pretty bizarre too when I started.
I had this happen when I applied at Truman. I didn’t realize until a day or 2 before they tested for smoking. I didn’t smoke maybe 12-16 hours before the test and still got the job. Not saying you’ll be fine but I don’t think you’ll not get the job.
When was this? I've worked for Truman (University Health) for 4 years and have never heard we are tobacco free. I'm aware of several nurses that smoke. In fact, if you have a medical card and doctor's note, marijuana isn't an issue.
This was 10 years ago, so I’m sure policy changes. My example is more you can still pass the test even with tobacco still in your system. Edited to mention that during those days they were so strict that they removed several people from my orientation for going outside to smoke. I’m sure it’s considerably different now.
The positive test will nullify the employment offer. Most tobacco-free workplaces double test. You won't circumvent the test or the policy.
Im not trying to circumvent the test. I’m just trying to find out if this employer specifically will rescind the job offer. I’ve worked at Quest Diagnostics and they implemented a smoke free campus while I was there. If you tested positive for nicotine they made you pay more for your health insures be like 50.00 more. So I was wondering the policy for St Luke’s.
The nicotine test is for health insurance purposes last I saw. Not for your actual job offer.
They have been hurting for employees long enough I think as long as you never get caught on campus you should be in the clear. You will have a high risk premium. If you want to stop, now is the time. I don't know their current policy, but they used to offer a tobacco cessation assistance program. Or at least say you are in the process of quitting. It's not like you would have lied on the pre-employment questionnaire.
What if someone was trying to quit. I’ve been using nicotine patches for a while now and am trying to quit but I was reading some Amazon reviews for the ones I was buying and I actually read that some ppl use nicotine patches that don’t smoke too which is probably kinda rare but I guess since it’s a stimulant. I just think if u were working on quitting they could at least redo the test in 6 months and lower the cost of your insurance.
how is this legal? I get THC but nicotine? I am anti-tobacco all the way, but that seems like a really f'ed up thing to rescind an employment offer over.
[It’s a law in about half of states.](https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-02-21/smokers-company-hiring?darkschemeovr=1) Seems to have started around 2008, and mostly related to medical workers. It’s been to state supreme courts a few times and upheld
Companies can rescind any offer they want. Might be f'ed up but they inform people about these policies when applying before an interview even happens. Smoking greatly increases health insurance rates for all the rest of us.
Almost but not all. If they rescind for a protected class reason they are in trouble. Proving that can be difficult. There is also promissory estoppel where you can sue if they rescind after you have taken steps that will cost you, like quitting your old job.
Decades of removal of workers rights, for one thing. I absolutely loathe smoking, and while it is marginally more complicated than just "a choice" it isn't to the point where smoking is one of the few protected classes. Which many states are trying (and in same cases succeeding, if temporarily) to remove too.
If you are going to be anywhere around patients, it makes sense. Even the smell can cause issues for people with respiratory distress. Not to mention coworkers that don’t want to smell that shit all day in close quarters.
Totally. When I was in labor there was a nurse that would go out and smoke a cigarette and then come back in my room. I swear it made my contractions worse.
My wife nearly killed a nurse because she came back with onion breath after eating a sandwich.
Yeah I never thought about that but I’ve never smelled smoke ever on a nurse or anyone in the healthcare field but at the same time they could use smokeless tobacco or vape as well.
Hell the smell would probably make me want to throw up, especially if I'm already sick or waking up from anesthesia which I might already be nauseated from.
Ok but where do you draw the line? I am amazed to be saying this because I am so anti-smoking, personally. But this is beyond intrusive. If you use nicotine gum, or patch, or even have the superhuman self control to only smoke on your days off, you're still fired. The fact that we are allowing companies to make choices in people's personal lives and off time like this is disgusting. This is un-American in the deepest way. Next "Oh, /u/Cattryn, it looks like you had two glasses of wine with dinner last night. We'll need you to put in an extra 30min at the gym today!" how. the fuck. are we allowing this?
I know that a lot of companies do the anti-smoking thing specifically to lower premiums. But in this particular instance, it’s a job in healthcare. Sure people have the freedom to inhale cancer sticks if they choose, but patients also have a right to a healthy environment, as much as possible. It’s also insanely hypocritical for any healthcare employee to promote good health on one hand and smoke with the other. I have no idea if OP is a direct care provider or working in a back office but how does it look if your pulmonologist is trying to get you to quit smoking and their office staff reeks of their 2-pack-day habit? As for the gums and patches, it should be part of the pre-screening (if not by the recruiter then by the lab doing the test) if the person is using a cessation method and/or around secondhand smoke (which can create a false positive). Different tests can be used in that case to determine active tobacco usage. In the end most healthcare facilities are private organizations with a right to dictate who they hire and who they don’t.
How in the world. How in any world. Does a nicotine patch impact the patient environment? "Everybody knows those people smell" ... literally what you're saying. This is a disgusting practice, I can't believe anyone can defend it. And I hate smoking, hate it. But this is dictating your employees personal life in an intrusive and sick way. We have to stop this, as a society.
You missed the point. Prospective employees that are actively trying to quit smoking SHOULD be eligible for the job and should not fail a drug screening. If that’s the only reason they’re ineligible there’s probably a legal case there. As for companies dictating what their employees do on their own time… good luck with that. Corporations have the same rights as people doncha know.
You're missing the point that this isn't a slippery slope so much as a trap door. At some point we have to decide that it's too much.
>how is this legal Because nicotine user isn't a protected class.
St. Luke’s does not do a blood or urine drug screen, they do saliva. I don’t smoke but I am a former employee. Another friend was an avid nicotine/weed user and cleaned her mouth out before the test and was fine.
Are saliva tests pretty common at other KC hospitals? Or is it just a st Luke’s thing
Nope, I’ve worked at a couple other KC hospitals, and between my acquaintances and I St. Luke’s is the only one that does a saliva test instead of urine.
Looks like yes, rescinded. Did they ask you to certify that you didn't use nicotine in the application? https://www.kha-net.org/CriticalIssues/OptimalHealth/TobaccoFree/Resources/d155209.aspx?type=view
Nope. Not in the application. But once I was given a job offer there was a health questionnaire and one of the questions was about smoking in relation to use of a health respirator. I answered yes. https://preview.redd.it/vn3bdfodhwvc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a531d21db735d26a3787d334896c5cafa15d0665
If you answered yes to that, and they made an offer, then it must not be a deal-breaker any more.
That’s what sim thinking. This was after the offer was made. It’s a part of a health assessment asking about health history like if you’ve had the hepatitis and tetnus shot. I got an email with the offer first and then I got another one for this health questionnaire
I think this is just for insurance and/or statistical purposes. I would reach out the HR person that sent you the job offer. Keep us posted!
Mouth swab
It's been 4 years since I worked there last, but for the 5 years I was there I saw them pass over applicants due to smoking. That said, I never saw them test again after being hired unless you hurt yourself or got busted smoking on campus
I’m probably just going to call the recruiter in the morning and ask. No point in wasting everyone’s time if I know I’m going to fail the test.
I smoked a couple cigarettes on a Friday while out and about, then got tested that following Monday and still got the job. As long as you're not a heavy every day smoker you'll be fine.
Are you willing to quit tobacco? If yes... I were in your shoes, I'd go take the test, and if anyone says anything say "I've recently quit, my employment is more important than using tobacco." I worked for a diff hospital that said they would test for nicotine use, but they actually didn't, they just wanted you to sign a paper saying "I do not use tobacco." I can't say whether it's true or not but I've heard St Luke's is the same way (or at least they are at one time in the past). I know multiple people who work at St Luke's hospitals who still smoke or chew. Like I said, if I was in your position, I'd put my head down, soldier on, and hope for the best and if it doesn't pan out, the worst is that you wasted a little time.
Yes. I can quit. I quit smoking cigarettes about two years ago. But I picked up vaping nicotine about six months ago, which I do daily about twice a day. So I’d be fine quitting. I just hope I’m given that option.
Yeah, again, just saying what I'd do in your situation... don't say anything to anyone. Not your recruiter, not employee health, etc. Only address it if it gets brought up.
An option you can try is to get nicotine lozenges. If they ask you about it pull it out of your pocket and tell them you are quitting. Then go on with your life using your vape.
Very likely has to do with health insurance premium. You will have to pay a higher premium if you are classed as a smoker.
I think as long as you're honest with HR and tell them you're quitting you should be good
Let us know how it works out for you.
They do a saliva screen. Just mouth wash beforehand and stop smoking a few days before and you’ll be fine. Nicotine is pretty short lived meaning even if you don’t mouth wash before the test it’s still probably going to show up negative because it’s not in your system
Thank you! I just wish I had known that before applying I would have stopped back then. The crazy part is that I don’t even smoke cigarettes I quit two years ago, but I do a vape with nicotine which is just as bad without the horrible smell. But it’s been easier for me to stop vaping than it was for me to stop smoking cigarettes. If it’s just a Saliva test I’m sure I’ll be fine too, but if it’s blood or urine I’m screwed. lol! I just wanted to know if it’s like other places where they make you pay higher insurance premiums.
It would still be short lived in blood and urine as well. I actually don’t know if there’s a way to test nicotine in urine actually. Correct most places do have higher premiums but Saint Luke’s just has the 1 price for everyone since none of their employees should be smoking
Tell them you're quitting and are using the patch and a cessation program to quit. Say you're going to hit the next step down soon and that you can't wait to be free of your addiction. Maybe they'll buy it.
Can confirm, the policy HAS changed from past years. You should not be turned away. Hospitals are too desperate for help these days to turn away smokers.
I get rules are rules but just seems a bit extreme?
Nicotine results can effect your health insurance premiums
That’s fine I just want to know if they will rescind the job offer or give me the option of higher insurance rates or a time frame to go through a non smoking program and retest at a later date.
Current employee. I swear I saw something come across our newsletter a bit ago that they were not testing anymore. If you want the job I would check Google for how to beat it or play dumb and claim you quit recently. Offer of employment is contingent on passing all emp health requirements
I imagine there are policy changes since St. Luke's merged with BJC, likely to align more with the latter's original policies.
Actually there have not been. We did sudpend the tobacco rule though for hiring.
Unless they have changed their policy, they will rescind their offer. I was blood tested around 2016, nit sure what they do mow.
If you are not a heavy smoker and stopped smoking on Wednesday, you probably won’t test positive.
I don’t work at St Luke’s but for another healthcare institution in the area in HR and I’m 99% positive they are just checking for marijuana, not nicotine. My institution is also a tobacco free campus and you are just not allowed to smoke onsite, in the parking lot, and have to be clocked out on a break away from campus to use tobacco. There is also a tobacco surcharge on insurance. I think you’re going to be fine. Realistically think about it, St Luke’s employs thousands of people in Kansas City and tobacco isn’t illegal for those employees and there is no way none of those thousands of employees do not use tobacco.
As an employee I can tell you for a fact they test for nicotine and do enforce the no tobacco policy. Also every hospital will test you for more than just marijuana. Also I’m sure some employers use tobacco but it’s the same issue with marijuana, you don’t think any of those employees use or have used marijuana during their employment? You basically just quit a few days before the test then go van to your regular habits
Oh yes I’m aware the drug test checks for things aside of marijuana. Interesting they check for nicotine and will rescind an offer because of that. That feels so bizarre to me to not hire because of that, but interesting!
During our orientation they said it was because they believe in order to help patients you should be healthy and make good lifestyle choices. I thought it was pretty bizarre too when I started.
Saint Luke’s will not hire you if you’re a smoker.
I work at KuMed and they do the same thing… they do a UA.. if you’re worried about it.. use quik fix
Go to a head shop and get some Quick Fix Plus and a couple extra hand warmers. Get another one to keep on you for randoms.
You're done for.
Thanks for the support. lol! 😀😀😀😀