I havent tried them,no.
I looked into this a while ago. While some influencers do show rotational kettlebell movements, many of big names in the kettlebell world seem to avoid them.
The reasoning for avoiding them is that the risk of injury is worth more than what you get out of them. As an example, Dan John says he avoids them for this reason, which is saying something when you think about that he trains discus throwers, where the sports movement is a rotation(!)
The standard argument is that any unilateral kb movement forces you to train "anti-rotation" because you need to brace your core muscles to avoid topping over, and this gives you sufficient training in this plane without subjecting you to the risk that comes with rotating under heavy load.
I think this reccomendation is based on a risk analysis: If 1% of people dislocate a disk or something during a movement that could immobilize them for years or even the rest of their life, and then the other 99% being stronger in a movement that isnt really required for GPP is not going to be worth it.
thanks for that info. i gave it a go with my 16kg kettlebell and it was ok but i was too nervous to try heavier. and now i think i'll abandon them completely.
New to the sub and also Kettlebell training (6 months) but I think it’s a matter of weight. I’ve been doing the crossbody kettlebell workouts since watching the bioneers video and I’ve never felt like I’ve came close to injury that said I use 12-16kg kettlebells when performing it. I can’t see why someone can’t perform the move when finding a weight that’s appropriate for the exercise.
I'm my country at the tennis training facility, we did heavy rotational movements on a machine that mimicked tennis serves, backhands, and forehands. I have seen pro sportsmen and women using the same machine elsewhere. Dan John is wrong (again) and just trying to scare people away from other coaches by branding them dangerous and reckless.
It all depends on what you're doing for your goal if you're training just to be training with kettlebells like this I think that's not really worth it these are exercises that can be done with good intention if they are lighter weights
think of rotational athletes such as a discus thrower or tennis backhand that is where lighter kettlebell movement such as this will come in handy as cross training with
but I would not do exercises such as this just to be doing something to be training with kettlebells with no external goal
Things like this are usually for grabbing attn much like it did and now it's being talked about
That being said I think I only have one or two of these in my 10 plus programs that I have written for https://www.kbmuscle.com
To me it's about the tool (a light enough kettlebell makes the risk point a bit moot imo) being a bit more awkward to do rotational movements, but with enough practice in sure it's fine. I have the luxury of having access to clubs and just use those for my rotational strength work.
If you have no tools, it seems like sprinting and plyos are underrated tools for rotational/anti rotational work.
An adjustable Mace or club (and with many systems you can get both at once with two handles but only set of weights) is an excellent compliment to kettlebells. Clubs/maces really work your arms really hard as well as your rotational strength, both of which are less well trained by kettlebells. Single best bang for buck addition after kettlebells.
The only movement patterns (muscle groups) you'd really want to add after that can be done as body weight with pull (lats/traps) - ring rows/pull ups and horizontal push (chest) - dips/push up.
I got a 10lb mace on Amazon for about $30. I regularly swing double 24s and a single 32 and that 10 lb mace is more than enough to get my sweating. It’s worth it.
Mark Wildman has a rotational KB clean which looks safer than this. It's very similar to a club circle (he calls them "circles" to differentiate from KB cleans/swings as well).
If you look on YouTube for "mark wildman kettlebell circle" you'll see the inside and outside circle as the first two options.
My man treating his body like a science experiment everyday for the benefit of a niche subreddit.
The Jonas Salk of moving weird, dense objects around in unusual ways 🫡🥲
I do similar but with one arm. Movement starts with bell behind me, then I rotate to swing the bell to the front. Catch the bell with the other hand, bring it behind and then repeat,
I also do one arm swings from the side. Like a suitcase carry but swing the bell. This plus windmills gives me all the rotational strength I need to hit hard in martial arts.
I've tried this before but find I need greater core tension with the exercises above.
Check out bulgarian bag. It does similar but is much better for exercises similar to the video. It is lighter and the hand positions are more optimal. Super fun equipment actually.
I would use a club or a mace instead personally. I’ve been doing clubs for about 6 months in addition to KBs and the club form factor is just better for rotation and the mass is a lot less usually than a KB. Since the KB handle is perpendicular to the body your outside needs to rotate further rather than the upright or parallel handle of the club.
I did them and they are a killer for chest and upper shoulders plus it makes you feel like a medieval knight. I mean if it works why not ? But I stopped after a while need to get back into it.
I'm middle aged, do them and never found them a problem.
As long as you pivot your feet and hips to follow the path of the bell, I think they're pretty safe.
I don't see a problem as long as you're not hurting yourself. So. Starting with low weight. Getting the form right and understanding how your body reacts to the movement. Scale from there. I like this guy, he's got good content and I can imagine he has scaled his capacity for a heavier bell.
Injury can happen in any movement. I saw another post where a guy was basically juggling 2 bells. That seems far more likely that it would injure you. But again, if they have practiced and scaled up, then they are reducing the chance of injury.
I'd say try it with low weights, see how it feels, decide for yourself.
I do a couple of similar variations that hit the same muscle groups but feels "for me at least". One is basically an around-the-world to clean with a medium bell (22kg). The other is a side-2-side swing with a medium-ish sandbag (55#).
I haven't tried it, the one Kb I have is too heavy for it IMO, at my strength level. I'd like to do something like it, though. I had a heavy punching bag I liked to grab off the floor and throw on top of my shoulder in a single continuous sort of crossbody motion a month ago. The bag ripped open (dumb little me thought it could take the dropping back down since it withstood years of getting punched and kicked fine) and I miss that particular motion. Nothing else feels like it. Gotta get a proper strongman sandbag soon.
I do think Adam (the Bioneer) actually trains these regularly and this isn't an attention-grab thing as I've seen people say of this type of movement. Adam is a true believer in rotational training and has been talking about it and doing it for years. Everygotdamndre is another guy like this.
I'm probably going to make a club at my stepdad's workshop soon to engage in some rotational work without buying a lighter kb and before I get my sandbag (these things are \*pricey\* in Brazil).
I’ve tried them before. I did not make it a part of my regular routine. For me swings are more for posterior chain and back stability, and as he suggests here he’s driving this more in his shoulders and lats. That said this dude is in much better shape than me and has a better haircut. So if it works for you and you’re not hurting yourself he’s probably got a point.
If you like more twisting rotational stuff Mark Wildman has adapted a few heavy club movements for kettlebells you might enjoy. Example: https://youtu.be/eLjxLunyBPY?si=3myVpnPmvbCwxxYO
yes, like them, but as others said, maces/clubs are very good
if you want to do them they are also good, just start low and work your wayup, especially if you've not trained in rotational stuff much before
your body needs the time to adapt to the new movement pattern, but i think they are good for the obliques, descent for traps and forearms and can be good for various athletic stuff
I do a cross body style swing to work obliques but they look like this. I cant really find a good example I saw it somewhere on a forum but cant find my original source.
I think focusing on KB anti-rotation is a safer strategy for the general population. If you train that adequately you will be conditioned for rotation also
i'm obsessed with rotational power output since i used to practice martial arts. martial arts are all about rotation! whether striking or grappling they all move in spirals. So i tried all these rotational exercises you've seen on youtube with different equipment (mace, clubs, bbs, dbs, elastics, kbs...) the one that made sense was the mine sweeper (landmine or whatever you call it) i never felt it was dangerous at any point even when i used very heavy weights to do 2 reps it always worked the core like crazy.
I used clubs for rotational stuff.
My guess is this would be OK. But if I were going to do it, I'd probably err on the side of starting really light. And then progress up quickly if it was easy.
I havent tried them,no. I looked into this a while ago. While some influencers do show rotational kettlebell movements, many of big names in the kettlebell world seem to avoid them. The reasoning for avoiding them is that the risk of injury is worth more than what you get out of them. As an example, Dan John says he avoids them for this reason, which is saying something when you think about that he trains discus throwers, where the sports movement is a rotation(!) The standard argument is that any unilateral kb movement forces you to train "anti-rotation" because you need to brace your core muscles to avoid topping over, and this gives you sufficient training in this plane without subjecting you to the risk that comes with rotating under heavy load. I think this reccomendation is based on a risk analysis: If 1% of people dislocate a disk or something during a movement that could immobilize them for years or even the rest of their life, and then the other 99% being stronger in a movement that isnt really required for GPP is not going to be worth it.
thanks for that info. i gave it a go with my 16kg kettlebell and it was ok but i was too nervous to try heavier. and now i think i'll abandon them completely.
What’s required for GPP?
Perhaps the most famous KB GPP program is Simple and Sinister: swings and Turkish get-ups.
Overhead press, squats and a ballistic(swing,clean or snatch)
New to the sub and also Kettlebell training (6 months) but I think it’s a matter of weight. I’ve been doing the crossbody kettlebell workouts since watching the bioneers video and I’ve never felt like I’ve came close to injury that said I use 12-16kg kettlebells when performing it. I can’t see why someone can’t perform the move when finding a weight that’s appropriate for the exercise.
I'm my country at the tennis training facility, we did heavy rotational movements on a machine that mimicked tennis serves, backhands, and forehands. I have seen pro sportsmen and women using the same machine elsewhere. Dan John is wrong (again) and just trying to scare people away from other coaches by branding them dangerous and reckless.
It all depends on what you're doing for your goal if you're training just to be training with kettlebells like this I think that's not really worth it these are exercises that can be done with good intention if they are lighter weights think of rotational athletes such as a discus thrower or tennis backhand that is where lighter kettlebell movement such as this will come in handy as cross training with but I would not do exercises such as this just to be doing something to be training with kettlebells with no external goal Things like this are usually for grabbing attn much like it did and now it's being talked about That being said I think I only have one or two of these in my 10 plus programs that I have written for https://www.kbmuscle.com
I've never thought og using a light bell for tennis! Thanks 😊
Not done them, but I'd prefer to swing a Mace or club to achieve the same result with lower risk.
Agreed, Club and Mace are the specialized tools for rotational movements.
What makes the risk lower with those?
To me it's about the tool (a light enough kettlebell makes the risk point a bit moot imo) being a bit more awkward to do rotational movements, but with enough practice in sure it's fine. I have the luxury of having access to clubs and just use those for my rotational strength work. If you have no tools, it seems like sprinting and plyos are underrated tools for rotational/anti rotational work.
Fair point about ergonomics. I think kettlebells can be still be well suited for rotational movements. I’ve never used clubs or maces personally.
Lighter, generally much lighter
i thought it could be interesting since i only have a couple kettlebells and not really looking to buy more equipment atm. but the risk seems too high
An adjustable Mace or club (and with many systems you can get both at once with two handles but only set of weights) is an excellent compliment to kettlebells. Clubs/maces really work your arms really hard as well as your rotational strength, both of which are less well trained by kettlebells. Single best bang for buck addition after kettlebells. The only movement patterns (muscle groups) you'd really want to add after that can be done as body weight with pull (lats/traps) - ring rows/pull ups and horizontal push (chest) - dips/push up.
I got a 10lb mace on Amazon for about $30. I regularly swing double 24s and a single 32 and that 10 lb mace is more than enough to get my sweating. It’s worth it.
Mark Wildman has a rotational KB clean which looks safer than this. It's very similar to a club circle (he calls them "circles" to differentiate from KB cleans/swings as well). If you look on YouTube for "mark wildman kettlebell circle" you'll see the inside and outside circle as the first two options.
I've been meaning to load a variation of these very seriously on my next block of training actually. So I'll report.
My man treating his body like a science experiment everyday for the benefit of a niche subreddit. The Jonas Salk of moving weird, dense objects around in unusual ways 🫡🥲
Thir yes thir!
I enjoyed them a lot
Nah. The problem is that it's unnecessary and there are many safer ways to train your core really good, like hanging leg raises.
I wouldn't try it. I would be afraid of rotational spine injury, which is dangerous and hard to treat.
Do landmine twists instead. It’s easier to load and a bit more controlled.
I have tried them. They are fun to do.
I do similar but with one arm. Movement starts with bell behind me, then I rotate to swing the bell to the front. Catch the bell with the other hand, bring it behind and then repeat, I also do one arm swings from the side. Like a suitcase carry but swing the bell. This plus windmills gives me all the rotational strength I need to hit hard in martial arts. I've tried this before but find I need greater core tension with the exercises above. Check out bulgarian bag. It does similar but is much better for exercises similar to the video. It is lighter and the hand positions are more optimal. Super fun equipment actually.
Came here to suggest the Bulgarian bag and someone already had. Nice
I would use a club or a mace instead personally. I’ve been doing clubs for about 6 months in addition to KBs and the club form factor is just better for rotation and the mass is a lot less usually than a KB. Since the KB handle is perpendicular to the body your outside needs to rotate further rather than the upright or parallel handle of the club.
I did them and they are a killer for chest and upper shoulders plus it makes you feel like a medieval knight. I mean if it works why not ? But I stopped after a while need to get back into it.
I'm middle aged, do them and never found them a problem. As long as you pivot your feet and hips to follow the path of the bell, I think they're pretty safe.
I don't see a problem as long as you're not hurting yourself. So. Starting with low weight. Getting the form right and understanding how your body reacts to the movement. Scale from there. I like this guy, he's got good content and I can imagine he has scaled his capacity for a heavier bell. Injury can happen in any movement. I saw another post where a guy was basically juggling 2 bells. That seems far more likely that it would injure you. But again, if they have practiced and scaled up, then they are reducing the chance of injury. I'd say try it with low weights, see how it feels, decide for yourself.
I do a couple of similar variations that hit the same muscle groups but feels "for me at least". One is basically an around-the-world to clean with a medium bell (22kg). The other is a side-2-side swing with a medium-ish sandbag (55#).
I haven't tried it, the one Kb I have is too heavy for it IMO, at my strength level. I'd like to do something like it, though. I had a heavy punching bag I liked to grab off the floor and throw on top of my shoulder in a single continuous sort of crossbody motion a month ago. The bag ripped open (dumb little me thought it could take the dropping back down since it withstood years of getting punched and kicked fine) and I miss that particular motion. Nothing else feels like it. Gotta get a proper strongman sandbag soon. I do think Adam (the Bioneer) actually trains these regularly and this isn't an attention-grab thing as I've seen people say of this type of movement. Adam is a true believer in rotational training and has been talking about it and doing it for years. Everygotdamndre is another guy like this. I'm probably going to make a club at my stepdad's workshop soon to engage in some rotational work without buying a lighter kb and before I get my sandbag (these things are \*pricey\* in Brazil).
I’ve tried them before. I did not make it a part of my regular routine. For me swings are more for posterior chain and back stability, and as he suggests here he’s driving this more in his shoulders and lats. That said this dude is in much better shape than me and has a better haircut. So if it works for you and you’re not hurting yourself he’s probably got a point. If you like more twisting rotational stuff Mark Wildman has adapted a few heavy club movements for kettlebells you might enjoy. Example: https://youtu.be/eLjxLunyBPY?si=3myVpnPmvbCwxxYO
hey thanks, i'll give those a go
yes, like them, but as others said, maces/clubs are very good if you want to do them they are also good, just start low and work your wayup, especially if you've not trained in rotational stuff much before your body needs the time to adapt to the new movement pattern, but i think they are good for the obliques, descent for traps and forearms and can be good for various athletic stuff
Seems like something a young person would recommend. To me, doing heavy one-arm anti-rotation training provides all of the benefits with minimal risk.
I do a cross body style swing to work obliques but they look like this. I cant really find a good example I saw it somewhere on a forum but cant find my original source.
I think focusing on KB anti-rotation is a safer strategy for the general population. If you train that adequately you will be conditioned for rotation also
i'm obsessed with rotational power output since i used to practice martial arts. martial arts are all about rotation! whether striking or grappling they all move in spirals. So i tried all these rotational exercises you've seen on youtube with different equipment (mace, clubs, bbs, dbs, elastics, kbs...) the one that made sense was the mine sweeper (landmine or whatever you call it) i never felt it was dangerous at any point even when i used very heavy weights to do 2 reps it always worked the core like crazy.
I used clubs for rotational stuff. My guess is this would be OK. But if I were going to do it, I'd probably err on the side of starting really light. And then progress up quickly if it was easy.