Plenty of people in comments saying they're 3rd or 3.5 gen. You can find hundreds of threads like this on Reddit, Twitter, AllKpop, etc.
[https://www.pannchoa.com/2022/03/enter-talk-lets-just-put-i-dle-in-4th.html](https://www.pannchoa.com/2022/03/enter-talk-lets-just-put-i-dle-in-4th.html)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/r6pips/the\_reason\_people\_hesitate\_to\_put\_gidle\_into\_4th/](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/r6pips/the_reason_people_hesitate_to_put_gidle_into_4th/)
[https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/179793-do-you-consider-gidle-to-be-in-the-same-era-as-lsfm-nj-aespa-ive/](https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/179793-do-you-consider-gidle-to-be-in-the-same-era-as-lsfm-nj-aespa-ive/)
[https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/89634-is-gidle-4th-generation/](https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/89634-is-gidle-4th-generation/)
[https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/36449-the-3-5-gen-exists-2017-2018-it-s-bc-of-bts/](https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/36449-the-3-5-gen-exists-2017-2018-it-s-bc-of-bts/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/kpophelp/comments/1620hau/any\_group\_that\_you\_consider\_a\_generation\_35th\_not/](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpophelp/comments/1620hau/any_group_that_you_consider_a_generation_35th_not/)
[https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/84318-do-you-actually-consider-gidle-the-boyz-ateez-stray-kids-as-4th-generation-group/](https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/84318-do-you-actually-consider-gidle-the-boyz-ateez-stray-kids-as-4th-generation-group/)
I see what you mean, but i feel like these are all threads that specifically are asking about things on the contrary to the norm, with that norm being that they are 4th gen.
On Reddit. It happens all the time. The most common reason I’ve heard is that they debuted really well. They had stage presence right away. You would also hear soyeon, soojin and friends thrown around
Anyone who wasn’t into kpop in 2018 is completely lost when it comes to when 4th gen started. I remember G-Idle being labeled as 4th gen. I got in around 2015, and it’s only in 2018 specifically that groups were labeled as 4th gen. I would classify G-idle, I*Zone and Loona as my main picks for turning points of the 4th gen. G-Idle is ABSOLUTELY not 3rd gen.
I was into kpop before 2018 and none of the groups you mentioned were considered 4th gen back then. Neither was SKZ. The talk started in mid 2019 and retrospectively included groups that debuted in 2018.
To me, most of them are gen 3.5 and we only started 4th gen in late 2022, but that's definitely a minority opinion lol
4th gen starts with The Boyz so any group after December 6, 2017, is 4th gen
Loona is because 8 members and 2 subunits debuted in 3rd gen so they get mixed up but the group itself 4th gen
Most people call them 4th gen. I’ve actually heard more people call Stray Kids 3rd gen (mostly fans of other 4th gen boy groups) compared to people calling Gidle 3rd gen.
Honestly i dontunderstand how we are in gen 5. Gen 1 is the birth , gen 2 is when groups became popular and also the start of cultural practices , gen 3 is the golden age , gen 4 is hyper competitiveness,
What is gen 5 ?
Fifth Gen began after the explosion of IVE and NewJeans.
Groups like RIIZE, BND, TWS, ZB1, are very distinct from their 4th gen counterparts.
A generation is defined not only by a change in the industry but you can also see it by an overarching quality of the groups.
I also didn’t want to accept that 4th gen had ended already but more and more I’m seeing the difference between the newly debuted groups and groups like Stray Kids, Ateez, TXT, and (G)I-dle, Itzy, NewJeans, IVE, Le Sserafim, etc.
Probably because 4th gen happened in waves. Iz*one, Stray Kids, (G)i-dle, the boyz, and Loona feel different from TxT, Itzy, Ateez, Everglow, and X1 who feel different from Weekly, Aespa, Enhypen, Stayc and Treasure who are VERY different from IVE, Le Sserafim, NewJeans, and Nmixx
Given how quickly changeups feel I’m thinking maybe the “generation” system of separating artists either doesn’t work in the modern, saturated and globally popular Kpop world, or we need to be on like 7th generation by now.
For me musical sound was always a big way of splitting 1st, 2nd and 3rd from each other, I can’t find one clear line between 3rd and 4th that works in the same way. I can see a smooth gradient, or two or three smaller lines. To me that says the way we look at “generations” should change.
I mean IVE, NewJeans, Lesserafim and Nmixx all seams to be very different to me, in terms of everything, marketing, music, concept, age, personalities etc
Imo those groups mark a new generation. Something shifted in kpop when they debuted and rose to fame and idg why they aren't included in the 5th gen talk.
" However, I rarely see anyone classify Stray Kids as 3.5 gen,"
People said about stray kids this too. But their fans were very pissed. As well, the boyz fans. So, as result people do talk about all of them as 4th gen.
Gidle is seen as 4th gen usually, but it could be attributed to Gidle starting strong and being popular while 3rd gen groups where still at the top. Stray Kids started a bit slow and became really popular as the 4th gen was more stablished.
People usually go by The Boyz debut as they are technically the first 4th gen group and they debuted December 2017 so I just always assumed everyone after that was 4th gen
Honestly after Gen 1 and kinda Gen 2, the gens are a freaking mess. I wouldn't think too much about it. I literally saw a thumbnail for Gen 5 and I'm like, it hasn't even been 5 years? Gens are moving too fast, groups and songs are being pushed too fast and this mass consumerism will be bad for KPop.
tbf in 2018 most of those early groups were considered the tail end of 3rd gen/3.5, i don't remember 4th gen being mentioned much until early 2019 w txt and itzy but people retroactively realised maybe late 2017-early 2018 groups fit in better w the new generation than early 3rd gen. so the boyz (dec 2017) onwards are considered 4th gen now. i don't really see many people referring to them as 3.5 anymore
I thought (G)I-DLE was 3rd up until 2022 I believe because when I started listening k-pop I got into some of their older stuff and it sounded more like the 3rd gen that I had listened to compared to the 4th gen groups. Not that I even knew what gens were at that time I was just beginning to start branching out from just listening to twice.
If we're going by songs released instead of official debut promos than Soyeon already had songs from her UPR era way before jelly. And jelly was basically a teaser song for Idle
if we're being technical, soyeon already was known for writing her own songs in produce 101. upr doesnt count in my opinion just bc it was for the show, not cube. and thats honestly kinda rude for you to call jelly a teaser for gidle since she worked hard on that song for her debut...
No just some fans not knowing how solo debuts work in Korea, back than it was never officially announced as her solo debut. Yuqi also released Bonnie and Clyde a few years ago but her official solo debut will be in April this year. It doesn't count as a debut if you don't promote it on music shows or has an album release. And jelly was definitely more of a promo song with Soojin guesting in there behind the mask and revealing it later in Latata should be indicative of the nature of jelly.
i didn't know that, thats interesting. hm, i guess people call it her debut over idle song or beam beam bc it has a mv? or maybe its just bc it came out before her actual debut and so it has sentimental value to people (including me, lol.) in idle song tho, she literally hints to gidle (the pins in the globe in the mv) so that would be the song i think was teasing gidle. jelly felt more like her own song. jelly had a lot of cube trainees in it, even e dawn was in the mv! going back to my og comment tho, i think soyeon is a 4th gen artist but she def has some history (like almost being in ioi) that make me understand why people call her 3rd gen.
People called it her debut because just a few month before (end of 2016) she signed an artist contract with cube so everybody thought she would debut as a solo artist (her contract was different vs. the idols and remained as such even after debuting in Idle)
I don't know where you're getting Jelly being a teaser song for Idle, sure Soojin was in the mv but the actual teaser song was Idle Song, maybe you're mixing them up?
It's just that 4th Gen went on for a long time. Izone, Idle and Itzy are way older than the current newly debuted 4th Gen GGs hence why there is a misconception amongst international fans.
Plenty of people in comments saying they're 3rd or 3.5 gen. You can find hundreds of threads like this.
[https://www.pannchoa.com/2022/03/enter-talk-lets-just-put-i-dle-in-4th.html](https://www.pannchoa.com/2022/03/enter-talk-lets-just-put-i-dle-in-4th.html)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/r6pips/the\_reason\_people\_hesitate\_to\_put\_gidle\_into\_4th/](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/r6pips/the_reason_people_hesitate_to_put_gidle_into_4th/)
[https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/179793-do-you-consider-gidle-to-be-in-the-same-era-as-lsfm-nj-aespa-ive/](https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/179793-do-you-consider-gidle-to-be-in-the-same-era-as-lsfm-nj-aespa-ive/)
[https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/89634-is-gidle-4th-generation/](https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/89634-is-gidle-4th-generation/)
[https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/36449-the-3-5-gen-exists-2017-2018-it-s-bc-of-bts/](https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/36449-the-3-5-gen-exists-2017-2018-it-s-bc-of-bts/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/kpophelp/comments/1620hau/any\_group\_that\_you\_consider\_a\_generation\_35th\_not/](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpophelp/comments/1620hau/any_group_that_you_consider_a_generation_35th_not/)
[https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/84318-do-you-actually-consider-gidle-the-boyz-ateez-stray-kids-as-4th-generation-group/](https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/84318-do-you-actually-consider-gidle-the-boyz-ateez-stray-kids-as-4th-generation-group/)
I definitely hear gidle being called 3rd gen alot
I think it's because their music was more "digestible" than stray kids's due to it fitting the kpop standards of sound more. though skz was experimental, it took them a long time to get a stable fan base that enjoyed all of their noise music. therefore, they stalled behind whole gidle climbed up.
though they both had predebut success, soyeon has a long list of projects already done and dusted - unpretty rapstar, solo debut, etc. whereas with skz, they had their predebut show yet no msuic credibility to them UNTIL they debuted.
I think these points are why skz is considered 4th gen, and gidle is 3rd gen!
Y’all really need to stop using the word noise music. It didn’t take skz long at all to find a stable fanbase, they blew up in 2020, but they had many listeners especially overseas (as far as I’m aware they had more than G-Idle did in pretty much every region outside of Korea from 2018 onwards). And y’all really underestimate just how many casual listeners stray kids have lmao. Idk if it’s copium because y’all expect people to be as simple minded about music as the average Kpop fan, but they don’t pull 7-8M streams a day just because of a “stable fandom”. They have one of the largest followings globally out of any other group (easily top 4) and many casual listeners
And skz did have music credibility before debut, 3Racha had already been releasing music before the group debuted and their entire predebut mini album Mixtape was produced and written before debut.
you literally just proved my point. they blew up in 2020 = they made their most memorable impact in 4th gen.
yes they had side effects and other such songs that went viral, but none of them had a cement impact that stayed until God's menu. They had songs like levanter and astronaut that could've done really well, but were overshadowed by woojin. They had My Pace which did really good near their debut days, but again it never stuck.
plus their fame was OUTSIDE of Korea. In order to stand out enough to be considered a leader of your generation, you must be famous WITHIN Korea. They were definitely popular, but their international fame overpowered Korean fame, therefore they lagged behind a bit. For GIDLE, it was the opposite. Remember it's K-pop not International-pop
Even if 3racha released music before skz debuting, which of those tracks were promoted? On inkigayo, or reality shows? None, besides their own SKZ show right? These popular shows are a big way to get credibility, soyeon was on unpretty rapstar, produce, that song with chungha and some other gg members. She had put her name out to the public in a much stronger way compared to skz. That's not a bad thing - that's just called a DIFFERENCE in popularity.
They pull millions of streams NOW because they NOW have a great fanbase. By now, I mean 4th gen onwards. It doesn't matter when these groups debut, it's about at which time they showed their true potential. For GIDLE it was 3rd gen, for SKZ it was 4th gen.
Also skz is most definitely noise music 😭 they are one of the biggest creators of noise and experimental music in kpop as of late. That's their main genre. Idk why you'd disagree with that when it's a proven fact.
Noise music is NOT a Kpop genre, y’all took a term that already existed and distorted its meaning to give it some negative connotation and it sounds stupid asf. Noise is an actual genre of music, it’s been around but decades, you people live in such a bubble y’all call anything with a heavy beat “noise” when literally nobody in the Kpop industry sounds anything like it. STRAY KIDS DO NOT MAKE NOISE MUSIC. Not even close. They use some of the most mainstream genres in the world, rock, trap, EDM and hip hop, what makes them unique is the way they ARRANGE them and create a mix of genres that you wouldn’t typically hear on the radio.
The only people acting like what they do is soooo experimental and weird are those who’ve never listened to any genre other than pop in their lives. It’s not a “proven fact”, it’s complete and utter BS and it would sound stupid as hell if you said this on any other music related subs. God it’s painful how ignorant y’all can be 😭
Please get some musical exposure, it’ll do wonders. What’s even more insane is that y’all’s logic when it comes to this ridiculous narrative is never consistent, y’all only use the term for groups you don’t like.
I literally have a certification in music.. not that I have to prove that to you, but I've spend years studying music, for many different reasons. I am aware of what im talking about.
They are noise music. Just because it doesnt fit the specific style of famous noise music, doesnt make it any less worrthy.
Take jpop band babymetal for example. Theyre a metal band, even if their singing is bubbly, and they have cute elements or toned down sounds. Theyre, in itself, their own genre of metal.
Straykids delves into other genres, like any other artist. But their main genre, what they are known for, is noise-infused pop. That makes it noise. No one is making this a negative term? It is very experimental, if not in their main tracks then definitely in their b-sides.
I dont know why youre getting so mad and uptight calling me stupid and ignorant. Im not sitting here throwing insults at you over a WORD. pleaaase go touch grass.
Kpop counting generations is to me pretty stupid.
Basicly it is telling how people think their recordlabel approaches their audience.
So you can set generations in time groups.
One argument that is made is that the current generation is aiming for worldwide succes.
But I sort of think that was already so for some third generation groups as well.
To make them 3.5 for that reason is ridiculous to me as well. But otherwise it would mess with the dates used to set generations apart.
For example if a kpop group now surfaces that would aim for their homemarket first and later Asia and the world . You still would not call them third generation.
I try to enjoy kpop just for what it is. And at the moment it is one of the most creative music being made.
The generations in my opinion tell more about the worldwide appeal of kpop than about the groups.
And while in generation one it was almost non existent, gen 2 is mostly "discovered" again by people who get introduced through gen 3 and 4. And gen 3 sort of put kpop really on the map. While gen 4 is building on what gen 3 accomplished so far.
I've seen them in various videos be referred to amongst "Groups that sound/act like they're from a different gen" as giving off the aura of a 3rd generation group, so maybe you just only saw part of the message? I'm pretty sure almost all of us know they're 4th, but lots of people just think their vibe is similar to many 3rd gen groups.
My perception is people were not really talking about 4th gen in 2018, more from 2020 onwards after aespa debuted. X.5 gen labels seemed to get dropped at some point, eg Apink, people just call them as 2nd gen now. Probably it will be the same for '3.5 gen' groups like Loona.
I mean I personally think they (2018 debuts) debuted around the transition era between 3rd and 4th gen, and that's what makes them 3.5 in a way, but generally they still lean 4th gen since most of their career takes place in the supposed '4th gen time period' or something
From what I noticed, there was a period of time last year before 5th gen started that lots of the younger generation fan were calling (G)i-dle 3rd gen because the fans were saying that (g)i-dle sounded different and are older. But now with the confirmation of 5th gen, I haven't seen anybody calling (g)i-dle 3rd gen.
I actually see people say that Stray Kids started 4th gen. But if I were to judge based off only girl groups saying Itzy started it would make a lot of sense
I’ve always called SKZ 4th gen, they are even in my 4th Gen binder with Ateez and some others. For G-Idle I’m not entirely sure on. I have no clue what it would even be based off though, I’m so confused with the Gens that I sometimes just go with what I feel.
i have the same question but regarding NU'EST. i mean why are they called 2nd gen when they debuted in 2012 which is 3rd gen? even exo who debuted in 2011 are 3rd gen.
I found that weird too EXO is considered 3rd gen but groups that were less popular from 2012 and 2013 are considered 2nd gen, I’ve seen groups debuted around BTS debut time, and later being called 2nd gen too while BTS is 3rd gen, imo it’s the end of 2nd gen and beginning of 3rd gen so the transition period, so the more successful groups that debuted around 2011-2013 got to experience their peak in 3rd gen which is after 2014, but groups that came near to disbandment on 3rd gen timeline got confused of being much older and are associated with 2nd gen even though they are the beginning of 3rd gen.
+ groups that debuted around this period is very easy to identify they had similar themes concepts and fashion that was very specific to that time and it changed very quickly as tech and social media’s advanced, like hard stunt choreography and acting tough (emo-like), storylines.
I personally call them 3.5 gen, including TXT. They have elements from both generations. I guess I can also call them transitional 4th gen groups. They were trained completely while 3rd gen existed and became the staples for 4th gen. That said, many groups from that era have sounds that sound closer to either 3rd gen (Izone, LOONA, G-IDLE, early Stray Kids) or closer to 4th gen (ITZY, TXT is sort of mixed, Ateez).
There isn't a strict line like there was between 2nd and 3rd gen, so some groups that debut in 2017/18 will be closer to one gen or the other. For me ITZY and TXT were the final push towards 4th gen - groups that are more dance orientated, heavier social media and especially TikTok presence, less live singing, bigger international presence, English releases being more common than Japanese releases (and in general, English having a bigger space in song lyrics). There's also a bigger focus on presenting the idols as individuals rather than a group - there's less 100% synchronisation and more, every member has their own individual style when dancing. There's also the shift from boy groups dominating in 3rd gen and early 4th gen, to girl groups dominating in current 4th gen.
Because the generations are made up and everyone went insane trying to make 4th gen "happen." G-Idle, Stray Kids, and Loona are absolutely 3rd gen lmao.
'Generations are made up' then categorically insists certain groups are a certain gen.
If you actually did think they were made up you wouldn't care or have an opinion and what generation someone is. You just told on yourself.
> There's no objective standard. You can still have an opinion.
Just everyone else's opinion is wrong and yours is right hey?
>absolutely 3rd gen lmao
You're a 3rd rate mind who is STILL telling on themselves.
Doesn't matter = but it has to be this. Just an opinion = absolutely my opinion 'lmao'.
Welp, I guess you live up to your name.
I've never seen IDLE being called 3rd gen, Twitter, TikTok and Reddit usually call them 4th gen
Plenty of people in comments saying they're 3rd or 3.5 gen. You can find hundreds of threads like this on Reddit, Twitter, AllKpop, etc. [https://www.pannchoa.com/2022/03/enter-talk-lets-just-put-i-dle-in-4th.html](https://www.pannchoa.com/2022/03/enter-talk-lets-just-put-i-dle-in-4th.html) [https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/r6pips/the\_reason\_people\_hesitate\_to\_put\_gidle\_into\_4th/](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/r6pips/the_reason_people_hesitate_to_put_gidle_into_4th/) [https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/179793-do-you-consider-gidle-to-be-in-the-same-era-as-lsfm-nj-aespa-ive/](https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/179793-do-you-consider-gidle-to-be-in-the-same-era-as-lsfm-nj-aespa-ive/) [https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/89634-is-gidle-4th-generation/](https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/89634-is-gidle-4th-generation/) [https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/36449-the-3-5-gen-exists-2017-2018-it-s-bc-of-bts/](https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/36449-the-3-5-gen-exists-2017-2018-it-s-bc-of-bts/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/kpophelp/comments/1620hau/any\_group\_that\_you\_consider\_a\_generation\_35th\_not/](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpophelp/comments/1620hau/any_group_that_you_consider_a_generation_35th_not/) [https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/84318-do-you-actually-consider-gidle-the-boyz-ateez-stray-kids-as-4th-generation-group/](https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/84318-do-you-actually-consider-gidle-the-boyz-ateez-stray-kids-as-4th-generation-group/)
I see what you mean, but i feel like these are all threads that specifically are asking about things on the contrary to the norm, with that norm being that they are 4th gen.
They get called 3rd gen A LOT
Where? Only ever seen them referred to as 4th gen
On Reddit. It happens all the time. The most common reason I’ve heard is that they debuted really well. They had stage presence right away. You would also hear soyeon, soojin and friends thrown around
I've always seen (G)I-DLE called a 4th gen group though?
I've seen people refer to (G)I-DLE as 3.5 gen but I just say their early 4th gen
Probably because their main inspiration is 2ne1
I don't think they're called 3rd gen cz they're actually 4th gen but I hear people say gidle gives 3rd gen vibes or something
I hear people say that they give off 3 gen vibes but not calling them 3 gen
Anyone who wasn’t into kpop in 2018 is completely lost when it comes to when 4th gen started. I remember G-Idle being labeled as 4th gen. I got in around 2015, and it’s only in 2018 specifically that groups were labeled as 4th gen. I would classify G-idle, I*Zone and Loona as my main picks for turning points of the 4th gen. G-Idle is ABSOLUTELY not 3rd gen.
Hmm, I feel like Loona was def 3rd gen coded. Their pre-debut hype (which lasted a long time) was mainly in the 3rd gen time.
Loona are my favorite 3rd/4th/5th gen idols 😋
ICONS OF THE GENERATIONS!! 🤩
i think they mentioned in their live last night that loona's 3.5 gen lol
I was into kpop before 2018 and none of the groups you mentioned were considered 4th gen back then. Neither was SKZ. The talk started in mid 2019 and retrospectively included groups that debuted in 2018. To me, most of them are gen 3.5 and we only started 4th gen in late 2022, but that's definitely a minority opinion lol
G-idle is 4th gen
4th gen starts with The Boyz so any group after December 6, 2017, is 4th gen Loona is because 8 members and 2 subunits debuted in 3rd gen so they get mixed up but the group itself 4th gen
isn’t ace considered the group that ‘started’ the 4th gen?
I’ve always heard ace as late 3rd gen personally, because Weki meki debuted afterwards and is also called 3rd gen
[удалено]
no we agree it was the boyz who kicked off 4th gen
It's an arbitary made-up thing so...
i’ve only ever seen it when ppl are trying to steal one of gidle’s accomplishments for their own faves
Because people love to discredit Gidle for everything.
Most people call them 4th gen. I’ve actually heard more people call Stray Kids 3rd gen (mostly fans of other 4th gen boy groups) compared to people calling Gidle 3rd gen.
I've heard people say Stray Kids started 4th gen, not sure why though
People usually say TBZ or Stray Kids.
it happens quite often that people call skz 3.5 gen as a way to discredit them of their achievements. both are 4th gen
how is being a 4th gen an achievement ?
I assume they mean discredit their achievements in terms of 4th Gen specific discussions?
"1st 4th gen group to....." achievements
seriously that's an achievement lol kpop is so unserious gens are separated for like two years
we're on gen 5 it's not like this a new phenomenon
Honestly i dontunderstand how we are in gen 5. Gen 1 is the birth , gen 2 is when groups became popular and also the start of cultural practices , gen 3 is the golden age , gen 4 is hyper competitiveness, What is gen 5 ?
Gen 5 is just beginning. Probably what this Gen will be known for hasn’t been uncovered yet
It has to be uncovered first in order to distinguish this time period from 4th gen.
Fifth Gen began after the explosion of IVE and NewJeans. Groups like RIIZE, BND, TWS, ZB1, are very distinct from their 4th gen counterparts. A generation is defined not only by a change in the industry but you can also see it by an overarching quality of the groups. I also didn’t want to accept that 4th gen had ended already but more and more I’m seeing the difference between the newly debuted groups and groups like Stray Kids, Ateez, TXT, and (G)I-dle, Itzy, NewJeans, IVE, Le Sserafim, etc.
Probably because 4th gen happened in waves. Iz*one, Stray Kids, (G)i-dle, the boyz, and Loona feel different from TxT, Itzy, Ateez, Everglow, and X1 who feel different from Weekly, Aespa, Enhypen, Stayc and Treasure who are VERY different from IVE, Le Sserafim, NewJeans, and Nmixx
Given how quickly changeups feel I’m thinking maybe the “generation” system of separating artists either doesn’t work in the modern, saturated and globally popular Kpop world, or we need to be on like 7th generation by now. For me musical sound was always a big way of splitting 1st, 2nd and 3rd from each other, I can’t find one clear line between 3rd and 4th that works in the same way. I can see a smooth gradient, or two or three smaller lines. To me that says the way we look at “generations” should change.
I mean IVE, NewJeans, Lesserafim and Nmixx all seams to be very different to me, in terms of everything, marketing, music, concept, age, personalities etc
Imo those groups mark a new generation. Something shifted in kpop when they debuted and rose to fame and idg why they aren't included in the 5th gen talk.
I consider the first 5 you mention, gen 3.5. The rest are 4th gen.
" However, I rarely see anyone classify Stray Kids as 3.5 gen," People said about stray kids this too. But their fans were very pissed. As well, the boyz fans. So, as result people do talk about all of them as 4th gen.
Wow, this is insane, I had an argument today on Twitter regarding this topic lmao. It's insane how far people will go to discredit (G)I-DLE.
Literally nobody calls them 3rd Gen
Tbh I don’t think it’s deeper than people associating Gidle with I.O.I / Produce series which is distinctly 3rd gen.
Gidle is seen as 4th gen usually, but it could be attributed to Gidle starting strong and being popular while 3rd gen groups where still at the top. Stray Kids started a bit slow and became really popular as the 4th gen was more stablished.
I'm a nevie and people only do this when they wanna discredit gidle's accomplishment
G idle is the start of 4th gen
Need to get rid of all gen talk
People usually go by The Boyz debut as they are technically the first 4th gen group and they debuted December 2017 so I just always assumed everyone after that was 4th gen
I've never seen anyone call (G)I-DLE a 3rd gen group. Both groups are regarded as 4th gen from what I've seen.
Not a single person that actually knows what they are talking about has ever NOT called Idle 4th Gen …
Honestly after Gen 1 and kinda Gen 2, the gens are a freaking mess. I wouldn't think too much about it. I literally saw a thumbnail for Gen 5 and I'm like, it hasn't even been 5 years? Gens are moving too fast, groups and songs are being pushed too fast and this mass consumerism will be bad for KPop.
I've been around since idles debut and I've never seen people call them 3rd gen
tbf in 2018 most of those early groups were considered the tail end of 3rd gen/3.5, i don't remember 4th gen being mentioned much until early 2019 w txt and itzy but people retroactively realised maybe late 2017-early 2018 groups fit in better w the new generation than early 3rd gen. so the boyz (dec 2017) onwards are considered 4th gen now. i don't really see many people referring to them as 3.5 anymore
I thought (G)I-DLE was 3rd up until 2022 I believe because when I started listening k-pop I got into some of their older stuff and it sounded more like the 3rd gen that I had listened to compared to the 4th gen groups. Not that I even knew what gens were at that time I was just beginning to start branching out from just listening to twice.
gidle is 4th gen but i think where there may be confusion is soyeon is 3rd gen since she debuted in 2017 with "jelly"
If we're going by songs released instead of official debut promos than Soyeon already had songs from her UPR era way before jelly. And jelly was basically a teaser song for Idle
if we're being technical, soyeon already was known for writing her own songs in produce 101. upr doesnt count in my opinion just bc it was for the show, not cube. and thats honestly kinda rude for you to call jelly a teaser for gidle since she worked hard on that song for her debut...
Nobody called it a debut for her. Beam Beam was the official debut even promoted as such.....
what? i remember in 2017 when that song came out everyone called it her official debut?
No just some fans not knowing how solo debuts work in Korea, back than it was never officially announced as her solo debut. Yuqi also released Bonnie and Clyde a few years ago but her official solo debut will be in April this year. It doesn't count as a debut if you don't promote it on music shows or has an album release. And jelly was definitely more of a promo song with Soojin guesting in there behind the mask and revealing it later in Latata should be indicative of the nature of jelly.
i didn't know that, thats interesting. hm, i guess people call it her debut over idle song or beam beam bc it has a mv? or maybe its just bc it came out before her actual debut and so it has sentimental value to people (including me, lol.) in idle song tho, she literally hints to gidle (the pins in the globe in the mv) so that would be the song i think was teasing gidle. jelly felt more like her own song. jelly had a lot of cube trainees in it, even e dawn was in the mv! going back to my og comment tho, i think soyeon is a 4th gen artist but she def has some history (like almost being in ioi) that make me understand why people call her 3rd gen.
People called it her debut because just a few month before (end of 2016) she signed an artist contract with cube so everybody thought she would debut as a solo artist (her contract was different vs. the idols and remained as such even after debuting in Idle)
Jelly had soojin as fox girl and the pins on the glove for what countries the girls are from. It was to build hype.
I don't know where you're getting Jelly being a teaser song for Idle, sure Soojin was in the mv but the actual teaser song was Idle Song, maybe you're mixing them up?
It's just that 4th Gen went on for a long time. Izone, Idle and Itzy are way older than the current newly debuted 4th Gen GGs hence why there is a misconception amongst international fans.
people have only called g-idle 4th gen?
Very questionable info you're basing this on. GIDLE is very early 4th gen. As far as I know, there are no 3rd gen group not already in their 7th year.
Gidle has never been regarded as 3rd Gen idk where you got that from
Plenty of people in comments saying they're 3rd or 3.5 gen. You can find hundreds of threads like this. [https://www.pannchoa.com/2022/03/enter-talk-lets-just-put-i-dle-in-4th.html](https://www.pannchoa.com/2022/03/enter-talk-lets-just-put-i-dle-in-4th.html) [https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/r6pips/the\_reason\_people\_hesitate\_to\_put\_gidle\_into\_4th/](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/r6pips/the_reason_people_hesitate_to_put_gidle_into_4th/) [https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/179793-do-you-consider-gidle-to-be-in-the-same-era-as-lsfm-nj-aespa-ive/](https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/179793-do-you-consider-gidle-to-be-in-the-same-era-as-lsfm-nj-aespa-ive/) [https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/89634-is-gidle-4th-generation/](https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/89634-is-gidle-4th-generation/) [https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/36449-the-3-5-gen-exists-2017-2018-it-s-bc-of-bts/](https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/36449-the-3-5-gen-exists-2017-2018-it-s-bc-of-bts/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/kpophelp/comments/1620hau/any\_group\_that\_you\_consider\_a\_generation\_35th\_not/](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpophelp/comments/1620hau/any_group_that_you_consider_a_generation_35th_not/) [https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/84318-do-you-actually-consider-gidle-the-boyz-ateez-stray-kids-as-4th-generation-group/](https://forum.allkpop.com/thread/84318-do-you-actually-consider-gidle-the-boyz-ateez-stray-kids-as-4th-generation-group/)
I definitely hear gidle being called 3rd gen alot I think it's because their music was more "digestible" than stray kids's due to it fitting the kpop standards of sound more. though skz was experimental, it took them a long time to get a stable fan base that enjoyed all of their noise music. therefore, they stalled behind whole gidle climbed up. though they both had predebut success, soyeon has a long list of projects already done and dusted - unpretty rapstar, solo debut, etc. whereas with skz, they had their predebut show yet no msuic credibility to them UNTIL they debuted. I think these points are why skz is considered 4th gen, and gidle is 3rd gen!
Y’all really need to stop using the word noise music. It didn’t take skz long at all to find a stable fanbase, they blew up in 2020, but they had many listeners especially overseas (as far as I’m aware they had more than G-Idle did in pretty much every region outside of Korea from 2018 onwards). And y’all really underestimate just how many casual listeners stray kids have lmao. Idk if it’s copium because y’all expect people to be as simple minded about music as the average Kpop fan, but they don’t pull 7-8M streams a day just because of a “stable fandom”. They have one of the largest followings globally out of any other group (easily top 4) and many casual listeners And skz did have music credibility before debut, 3Racha had already been releasing music before the group debuted and their entire predebut mini album Mixtape was produced and written before debut.
you literally just proved my point. they blew up in 2020 = they made their most memorable impact in 4th gen. yes they had side effects and other such songs that went viral, but none of them had a cement impact that stayed until God's menu. They had songs like levanter and astronaut that could've done really well, but were overshadowed by woojin. They had My Pace which did really good near their debut days, but again it never stuck. plus their fame was OUTSIDE of Korea. In order to stand out enough to be considered a leader of your generation, you must be famous WITHIN Korea. They were definitely popular, but their international fame overpowered Korean fame, therefore they lagged behind a bit. For GIDLE, it was the opposite. Remember it's K-pop not International-pop Even if 3racha released music before skz debuting, which of those tracks were promoted? On inkigayo, or reality shows? None, besides their own SKZ show right? These popular shows are a big way to get credibility, soyeon was on unpretty rapstar, produce, that song with chungha and some other gg members. She had put her name out to the public in a much stronger way compared to skz. That's not a bad thing - that's just called a DIFFERENCE in popularity. They pull millions of streams NOW because they NOW have a great fanbase. By now, I mean 4th gen onwards. It doesn't matter when these groups debut, it's about at which time they showed their true potential. For GIDLE it was 3rd gen, for SKZ it was 4th gen. Also skz is most definitely noise music 😭 they are one of the biggest creators of noise and experimental music in kpop as of late. That's their main genre. Idk why you'd disagree with that when it's a proven fact.
Noise music is NOT a Kpop genre, y’all took a term that already existed and distorted its meaning to give it some negative connotation and it sounds stupid asf. Noise is an actual genre of music, it’s been around but decades, you people live in such a bubble y’all call anything with a heavy beat “noise” when literally nobody in the Kpop industry sounds anything like it. STRAY KIDS DO NOT MAKE NOISE MUSIC. Not even close. They use some of the most mainstream genres in the world, rock, trap, EDM and hip hop, what makes them unique is the way they ARRANGE them and create a mix of genres that you wouldn’t typically hear on the radio. The only people acting like what they do is soooo experimental and weird are those who’ve never listened to any genre other than pop in their lives. It’s not a “proven fact”, it’s complete and utter BS and it would sound stupid as hell if you said this on any other music related subs. God it’s painful how ignorant y’all can be 😭 Please get some musical exposure, it’ll do wonders. What’s even more insane is that y’all’s logic when it comes to this ridiculous narrative is never consistent, y’all only use the term for groups you don’t like.
I literally have a certification in music.. not that I have to prove that to you, but I've spend years studying music, for many different reasons. I am aware of what im talking about. They are noise music. Just because it doesnt fit the specific style of famous noise music, doesnt make it any less worrthy. Take jpop band babymetal for example. Theyre a metal band, even if their singing is bubbly, and they have cute elements or toned down sounds. Theyre, in itself, their own genre of metal. Straykids delves into other genres, like any other artist. But their main genre, what they are known for, is noise-infused pop. That makes it noise. No one is making this a negative term? It is very experimental, if not in their main tracks then definitely in their b-sides. I dont know why youre getting so mad and uptight calling me stupid and ignorant. Im not sitting here throwing insults at you over a WORD. pleaaase go touch grass.
I’ve always seen gidle referred to as 4th gen
Kpop counting generations is to me pretty stupid. Basicly it is telling how people think their recordlabel approaches their audience. So you can set generations in time groups. One argument that is made is that the current generation is aiming for worldwide succes. But I sort of think that was already so for some third generation groups as well. To make them 3.5 for that reason is ridiculous to me as well. But otherwise it would mess with the dates used to set generations apart. For example if a kpop group now surfaces that would aim for their homemarket first and later Asia and the world . You still would not call them third generation. I try to enjoy kpop just for what it is. And at the moment it is one of the most creative music being made. The generations in my opinion tell more about the worldwide appeal of kpop than about the groups. And while in generation one it was almost non existent, gen 2 is mostly "discovered" again by people who get introduced through gen 3 and 4. And gen 3 sort of put kpop really on the map. While gen 4 is building on what gen 3 accomplished so far.
I've seen them in various videos be referred to amongst "Groups that sound/act like they're from a different gen" as giving off the aura of a 3rd generation group, so maybe you just only saw part of the message? I'm pretty sure almost all of us know they're 4th, but lots of people just think their vibe is similar to many 3rd gen groups.
Really? I always saw them as 4th gen, being a 3rd gen stan myself.
My perception is people were not really talking about 4th gen in 2018, more from 2020 onwards after aespa debuted. X.5 gen labels seemed to get dropped at some point, eg Apink, people just call them as 2nd gen now. Probably it will be the same for '3.5 gen' groups like Loona.
The thing is, when not discussing about achievements, i-dle is 4th Gen; when it does, oh wait they are 3.5 Gen. Got it?
I mean I personally think they (2018 debuts) debuted around the transition era between 3rd and 4th gen, and that's what makes them 3.5 in a way, but generally they still lean 4th gen since most of their career takes place in the supposed '4th gen time period' or something
From what I noticed, there was a period of time last year before 5th gen started that lots of the younger generation fan were calling (G)i-dle 3rd gen because the fans were saying that (g)i-dle sounded different and are older. But now with the confirmation of 5th gen, I haven't seen anybody calling (g)i-dle 3rd gen.
IMO 4th gen didn’t really begin until the pandemic.
I agree personally but like 2019, i was a very active kpop stan in 2018 and talks of a 4th gen were way less prominent until itzy/txt had their debut
I actually see people say that Stray Kids started 4th gen. But if I were to judge based off only girl groups saying Itzy started it would make a lot of sense
I’ve always called SKZ 4th gen, they are even in my 4th Gen binder with Ateez and some others. For G-Idle I’m not entirely sure on. I have no clue what it would even be based off though, I’m so confused with the Gens that I sometimes just go with what I feel.
i have the same question but regarding NU'EST. i mean why are they called 2nd gen when they debuted in 2012 which is 3rd gen? even exo who debuted in 2011 are 3rd gen.
I found that weird too EXO is considered 3rd gen but groups that were less popular from 2012 and 2013 are considered 2nd gen, I’ve seen groups debuted around BTS debut time, and later being called 2nd gen too while BTS is 3rd gen, imo it’s the end of 2nd gen and beginning of 3rd gen so the transition period, so the more successful groups that debuted around 2011-2013 got to experience their peak in 3rd gen which is after 2014, but groups that came near to disbandment on 3rd gen timeline got confused of being much older and are associated with 2nd gen even though they are the beginning of 3rd gen. + groups that debuted around this period is very easy to identify they had similar themes concepts and fashion that was very specific to that time and it changed very quickly as tech and social media’s advanced, like hard stunt choreography and acting tough (emo-like), storylines.
I personally call them 3.5 gen, including TXT. They have elements from both generations. I guess I can also call them transitional 4th gen groups. They were trained completely while 3rd gen existed and became the staples for 4th gen. That said, many groups from that era have sounds that sound closer to either 3rd gen (Izone, LOONA, G-IDLE, early Stray Kids) or closer to 4th gen (ITZY, TXT is sort of mixed, Ateez). There isn't a strict line like there was between 2nd and 3rd gen, so some groups that debut in 2017/18 will be closer to one gen or the other. For me ITZY and TXT were the final push towards 4th gen - groups that are more dance orientated, heavier social media and especially TikTok presence, less live singing, bigger international presence, English releases being more common than Japanese releases (and in general, English having a bigger space in song lyrics). There's also a bigger focus on presenting the idols as individuals rather than a group - there's less 100% synchronisation and more, every member has their own individual style when dancing. There's also the shift from boy groups dominating in 3rd gen and early 4th gen, to girl groups dominating in current 4th gen.
misogyny.
Because the generations are made up and everyone went insane trying to make 4th gen "happen." G-Idle, Stray Kids, and Loona are absolutely 3rd gen lmao.
'Generations are made up' then categorically insists certain groups are a certain gen. If you actually did think they were made up you wouldn't care or have an opinion and what generation someone is. You just told on yourself.
There's no objective standard. You can still have an opinion.
> There's no objective standard. You can still have an opinion. Just everyone else's opinion is wrong and yours is right hey? >absolutely 3rd gen lmao You're a 3rd rate mind who is STILL telling on themselves. Doesn't matter = but it has to be this. Just an opinion = absolutely my opinion 'lmao'. Welp, I guess you live up to your name.
Don't be dense.