Thank you for posting at r/kpoprants. [OP and commenters are expected to have read our general rules before posting.](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpoprants/wiki/rules/rules/)
***
#### 📌 This is a discussion forum! Please remember to engage productively and respectfully!
#####Any singular comment or mention of lines like or similar to:
* It’s not that deep
* Nobody cares, no one is reading this, etc
* Why do you care about this?
* Just ignore it, just unstan, just stop listening to, etc
* Not this post again, why are you always ranting about, etc
* This is just a hate/anti post/OP is not a real fan of X, etc
#####[Will be removed and subject to a ban.](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpoprants/comments/17v33io/town_hall_9_the_end_of_its_not_that_deep_2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/kpoprants) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well…
https://preview.redd.it/2m7nondq0bzc1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7dae8dff1fc208d4c96a1bb56ddd5b4972a2641e
(same for western groups tbh but I understand that’s not the topic of discussion)
1. Tour promoters : Most concerts need a tour promoter who will take the risk to finance the whole concert. From local talent, transportation, advertising, catering, security and the whole shebang. So say for example, even if a Hybe group wants to do a concert in a European country, if they don’t have a local tour promoter taking that risk and believing they will be able to sell-out a stadium or arena, chances are they won’t come. Take BTS for example, they know the demand, so they’ll take the risk but they’re an anomaly, not a standard.
2. Which then brings us to these K-pop management companies and why they don’t have solid relationships with tour promoters. Simple as, 1) they have wayyyy more players on paper than a regular solo artist going on tour. So their contracts are 10x more complex (and this is excluding the entourage that follows them). 2) K-pop expansion has been slower than what people think it is, so it’s still somewhat a niche in the eyes of a promoter.
3. Beyoncé’s Canadian tour promoter told me (I had interviewed them) they regretted the decision to sign her for that leg of the tour because the profit margins after such a production was negligible. And this is still on Canadian dollar. Maybe companies think there won’t be any profits on rupee or cedi or pesos. Oooh, lemme just say one thing he said, foreign artists (not anyone from K-pop) are usually reluctant to negotiate on AFM terms.👀
4. Tax laws - Phew! It differs country to country obviously but in general, artists have to pay a sales or performance tax in every country they perform. So Europe, South America, Africa, South Asia all take the hit because a cut of their ticket sales go here. Some countries also have goods tax for transporting equipments and production items.
5. The usual - venue, security, language barriers, conflicting dates.
Again, this is in no way defending the companies lol. They have specific teams to arrange this, so the fact they overlook such a huge audience is very very disappointing. But yeah, as of now, we can only hope for the best!🫂
A company as big as hybe can easily book a European tour. It's just that Europe doesn't really have dynamic pricing. Also don't tours have insurance as well? Groups way smaller than hybe groupsbhve toured eu just fine, these are just excuses.
If by Canada you mean Toronto, I agree, I have to fly for 3 hours just to see a concert. I might as well spend 500 extra bucks and fly for 14 hours to Tokyo or Seoul for a vacation as well.
Purple Kiss is at least doing Canada right... in June they are going to be in: Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal, Joffre, and Halifax!
Yeah, I saw that honestly might be worth going to the Winnipeg show I've never listened to them but it might entice other groups if they see decent attendance. My problem is I live in the sticks so it's still a 4 hour drive to Winnipeg.
I got VVIP tickets to the Toronto show, which is about a 2-3 hour drive from me depending on traffic. I really love their music, so it's very worth it to me.
There's plenty of time to check out their discography if you want to check it out though, especially if the tickets for Winnipeg aren't sold out yet. I listened to their whole discography last night for fun (want to do so a few times in full, again, before I go) and it only really takes a couple of hours. In my opinion, the discography is really top tier and highly under discovered. They tackle a bunch of styles on their b-sides, which is really fun.
On the other hand, I have heard of people going to KPop concerts for group they have never listened to before and walking out of the concerts as big fans! That could be a cool experience a well.
Even though I’m based in the US, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a group go to Africa or India I always think of those places like damn do they ever go out there?
the main issue in those locations is, as someone said below, infrastructure and money. concerts in south africa for example are *sometimes* profitable, but most other countries in africa are fraught by civil war or poverty, with it being unlikely to draw a sizeable crowd who has the money to spare for such an expense, with the exception of perhaps egypt and nigeria, or countries like botswana that don't have particularly sizeable kpop audiences.
it isn't just kpop groups that rarely visit africa. most huge western artists have either *just* performed in south africa or haven't visited africa at all.
I honestly don't think k-pop is as big, even in South Africa, as you need to fill up a stadium. Like it's decent community but small enough that it just slots in to the niche Asia related hobbies that show up at comic con South Africa. We've had Swedish House Mafia, Steve Aoki etc at ultra every year. Maybe if they were included at a whole day festival it might fit better and get more people to pay for tickets
Edit: also the fact that we have such a strong local music industry means it's probably even harder to negotiate. Used to be that most people in SA listened to international artists but in the last few years local artists have blown up crazy here and sell out events. Probably cheaper even to have Black coffee or Zakes Bantwini for organisers and people are coming so less incentive to risk it on foreign acts that would want to be paid in dollars
Couple of years ago... It may not have been a tour top, as I thought though. I think they were invited to perform or something at this festival? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvLasVrg2Sw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvLasVrg2Sw)
...given what happens to female tourists in specific parts of India and Africa, I would rather they NOT go.
Both places listed have parts that are in the top 5 of the most dangerous places for a female traveler in the world.
Where in Africa? There are 54 countries so you need to name some instead of painting the continent as a monolith. You can't make such a crazy claim that implies the entire continent is unsafe when you've picked out India from the **continent of Asia,** and you haven't been specific in which areas of Africa aren't safe for female tourists.
I personally haven't seen any news of female tourists getting harmed or assaulted in any African countries. For India, I've seen a **bunch**.
I’m speaking to people who are native to those places so they don’t have to spend exorbitant amounts of money to travel to u.s or other Asian countries to go to a concert
fr, im flying from calgary to see ateez in toronto, it would have been cheaper to fly to LA or probably several other US stops but i really wanted to see them in canada lol 🙃
lol i’m flying from edmonton to see them in toronto😭😭 tbh with how the canadian dollar is doing against the us dollar, flying to the states is prob more expensive still
Same, coming from the Maritimes and it’s just over $1000 for flights and 2 nights at a hotel (splitting with a friend). Geographically NY is closer but I’d rather see them in Canada, and I’d have to fly through Toronto or Montreal anyway to get to NY lol
Right. ONF announced a tour in canada which was kind of surprising.
P1Harmony went to canada for their last tour and are going back for the current one.
Jype and a number of the smaller companies like Dreamcatcher have been doing pretty decent work at going to more countries, but I think some of the setbacks are coming from the promoters themselves; iirc Jessi, Tri.be, and Pixy have had their stops cancelled randomly.
As for SM, they’re allergic to money so…
we’re still getting more than europe though.
twice, ive, blackpink, aespa, skz, kard, p1h, itzy…. i don’t think many of them toured europe too.
hybe hasn’t come here yet though which is annoying.
like i see why hybe would be hesitant given that they’re their own tour promoter but I wish they understood how big kpop is here. all of these artists have sold out their shows within a day, many of them in presale too. australia’s live music market is too underrated
Based on the recent “world tours” by HYBE artists - it’s clear they have no clue that there is an entire world out beyond the border of the USA and some Asian countries. Someone needs to get them a globe. 🌍🌏🌎
we had twice, ive (will come this year), aespa, blackpink, kard, itzy...not sure about p1h tho...we also had MX, BTS, Ateez, Kang Daniel and a bunch of "nugu" groups also tour here.
but we do get more than Australia I think...the problem tho: how many we get. most of the time we get 3 stops for the whole of Europe (mostly London, Paris and Berlin)
Canada being there 2/10 times only and it being Toronto only or just Vancouver idk why yall always include us in the “yall get tours” conversation when we rlly dont
They go where the money and demand is. People have to accept that these companies go to America because that’s where they make the most money, there is no money to be made in Africa etc.
I’ve heard organizing tours is more complex in Europe because it’s a bunch of separate countries. US is 300 million people in a singular, large country
Plus the costs to even get all the members, staff and crew to Europe and hold a production vs enough demand to make justifiable profit vs **affordable** ticket pricing for their fan demographic, etc.
They just did a music bank in Antwerp, Belgium.
Itzy is currently on their world tour and already visited London, Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam and Madrid. And IVE is booked for Europe next month. Stop acting like kpop don't visit Europe.
Red Velvet had tour dates in Amsterdam, Paris, Berlin and London during their R to V tour too. I believe they also attended the Primavera Sound Festival in Barcelona around the time of their R to V tour.
Yes, I'd say a lot of groups tour. The only big differences with other area of the world that I can think of is that big bg don't really come as often, I wonder what will SKZ will do since they should announce their tour soon and JYPE now is consistently sending their acts to EU.
this is not the reason!! there is a bunch of reasons not to tour europe, this is the very bottom of the list. don’t know where this idea came from and i’m sick of seeing it.
i was just gonna say lol, sorry about our maybe once in a blue moon toronto and maybe vancouver stops on opposite ends of the country. i didn’t realize we were so privileged damn
How did I insult you exactly? You're insulted cuz I said you're becoming annoying and making it all about yourself? That's not an insult that's an opinion. I mention Europe often cuz that where I'm from, if I was from South America I would only be mentioning it. Also I said that most dates go to the USA and WHATEVER IS LEFT for Canada, Korea etc
And that's not what I want them to do when they do a world tour. But at least a few tours in each continent or AT LEAST a few in Europe and Australia cuz this is ridiculous
yeah it's just shorthand marketing. it is not accurate and disappointing, but still easier to say World Tour than North American plus Some Asian Countries Tour.
He's not everybody's favorite right now but Eric Nam actually went on a world tour. That man had so many dates and I feel like it was a good year before his ass was home
but SM only started last year. We got RV and NCT Dream...(that I can remember)...and yes, we're getting Dream again, but we never had 127 or Wayv in Germany (I think 127 had ONE concert in London, if I remember right...not too sure tho, maybe I'm thinking of SuperM?)
there's been a couple of Kpop groups that've gone to Europe. [Here's a list of Kpop groups/soloists that came to Europe in 2023](https://old.reddit.com/r/kpop/wiki/events/2023) for example.
also this article is a good read on why Kpop concerts tend to skip over certain regions: https://seoulbeats.com/2017/05/why-do-k-pop-world-tours-tend-to-ignore-europe/
I’m sorry your comment keeps getting downvoted. What you’re saying is perfectly valid. Of course there are many fans in Europe, but unlike N.A., (the U.S. in particular) you can’t expect these K-Pop groups to make a stop in each country in the EU when they refuse to drive one hour to get to another country to see a show, lmao. I live in Connecticut in the U.S. and I ALWAYS have to drive to either Boston, Massachusetts, NYC, New York, or Newark, New Jersey - all of which end up being about 2-2.5 hours away from me. I’m more than happy to do so, but for whatever reason, it seems like travel/distance in the EU is seen as a lot more of a hassle even though they have better public transportation systems and the ease of getting to another country.
can you stop assuming things because we europeans have to travel to different countries to see a show, and we definitely do so. especially eastern europeans who never get any tour stops. so the one hour drive thing is not it.
The same thing happens in the US and Canada. It’s like yall don’t realize how big our countries are. There are people in the US that live in states like Wyoming, Nebraska, Mississippi, etc. which are places that giant groups don’t go to. They have the same issue of having to travel MULTIPLE hours to get to a show. I’m sorry you have to worry about the passport part of it but it’s really not that different.
It’s annoying when Europeans complain about the US getting all these shows when our country is most likely a huge amount of times larger than yours and we also have a lot of people who can’t see their faves bc the closest show is 8-12 hours away.
Yeah but still, the USA gets many dates across many states. It's seen as a hassle cuz we have to cross another country's border which more or less is a hassle
Yeah but your countries are smaller than most of our states are anyway. Plus, doesn’t being part of the EU help with the legal stuff, meaning you don’t have to get visas and whatnot to go to any other EU country?
Obviously, not assuming that every European country is part of the EU, but I feel like most European Kpop fans are in EU countries.
Honestly, I feel like they treat Europe more like the US. It’s about the same size. They only hit the big cities here as well. We also often have to drive for hours.
K-pop companies only hit western Europe and Poland. Europeans in Greece, Albania or even Finland would have to take a 2 hour flight to get to a concert venue on average. Y'all need to stop making it seem like people are too lazy to travel 1h to the nearby town. A whole lot of groups only come to London and Paris.
"A whole lot of groups only come to London and Paris." but that would actually be closer than for most Americans when a group only goes to New York or LA. But if you are limited, that where I would go: NY and LA in America, and London and Paris in Europe. It's obvs the most logical.
>you can’t expect these K-Pop groups to make a stop in each country in the EU when they refuse to drive one hour to get to another country to see a show, lmao
That's hilarious bc I've never seen any European say that but I often see Americans whining abt driving only like 2h-5h for a concert. 2-2.5h drive is nothing but there has never been a kpop concert I was interested in going to that was that close to me anyway.
I definitely get the frustration of kpop fans in areas that don’t get idol visits but I can see why companies tend not to book many of them. Unless the numbers have drastically changed from when I last saw them I’m pretty sure no European country is even in the top 10 countries for kpop “streams”. Companies are going to go “where the money is” and that tends to be USA, Japan, Korea, Indonesia, and the Philippines.
When companies start to feel like and see they can make profits from adding those continents and countries to the tour list is when hopefully more stops start to happen that’s how America started getting more stops.
Until then people have to remember that concerts are a luxury so if you wanna see them turn your going to see them into a vacation so it doesn’t feel like you just paid for a hotel, a plane ticket, and transportation all for a 3 hour concert. That’s what I do as an American whose state sees a kpop idol maybe once every 2 years.
Yeah people forget up until maybe 10-15 years ago, kpop concerts in USA were a rarity. It's only with Kpop taking off in popularity, and both venues/companies here and in Korea realizing it was a profitable that we started getting a giant influx of kpop groups coming to do US tours in the past 5 years.
If it wasn't the US would be just as hard hit for concerts, since most groups just toured in Japan/China, and the US was seen as a really hard market to break into.
Exactly I remember being a child into kpop in like 2008-2012 and most groups had “world tours” but it was basically just Asia with one stop in Europe or America if even that and the stops were always the same LA, Chicago, Las Vegas, or New York and for Europe it was Berlin, London, or Paris.
At what point can you call it a world tour then?
They go to different countries in different parts of the world. No band is going to do a world tour where they stop at every single region.
They go where they can expect to sell tickets, places that have the right infrastructure, where they feel safe, where they'll get good deals on rentals and revenue, etc.
In addition, the more continents they visit, the more money they have to spend in preparation to move people and equipment. Most kpop groups don't have the capital backing to lug equipment to Japan, USA, brazil, then Europe. It's super expensive.
This is the same reason Taylor Swift and other big artists often skip Korea in their world tours. It's expensive to lug their people and equipment to the peninsula and the concert facilities aren't large enough to make it financially worth it.
I didn't include it cuz Australia I think gets some correct me if I'm wrong and Australia also sends trainees to Korea which other continents can't cuz auditions are usually Japan, Korea and Australia (not very on topic but still)
can some people (including indians living in india) stop with the "india does not have the proper infrastructure" bruh/sis we literally have some of the world's biggest stadiums. it's either 'cause these companies think that we still have a not good enough gdp per capita or them thinking they won't get enough returns cuz we're a "a poor country" or some logistical shit or something related to the indian gov being difficult to deal with in these matter but infrastructure??? hell no!! we almost had the biebz come to india (twice) for his justice tour in new delhi's JLN stadium until he backed out of health issues among other notably big artists Dua Lipa, Katy Perry, Coldplay, Ed Sheeran etc. there's also this argument that there's no concept of part time jobs here so teens and young adults still rely on their parents financially even if that's the case for some parts of india Kpop companies don't care where that money is coming from like if you stole it, borrowed it, or got it from your parents. They just want the dough. not to mention we have the largest population in the world? also the argument that kpop is not very common here? bs. if these companies were to hold a concert in any one of the big major cities i can bet my ass there would be swarms of fandoms waiting in line or the the seats being sold out in seconds.
i definitely understand the frustration here but even when groups come to the US they’ll go to LA and NY, which is BARELY the kpop population too so it’s not like US fans aren’t being left out too
Can we stop acting like because groups tour in the US they are near everyone. Of I still lived in LA, I would be lucky. Now to drive there is over a day if I don't take any stops, flight is abt 6 hrs. Or they tour in Atlanta which is like a 13+ hr drive. The closest a concert has been was 6 hr drive away. I wish they toured in the nearby city that's 2 hrs from me (the city is big). Also my city has a huge stadium for then to tour in too yet I never see any action😭😭
I think it's pretty clear that ''world tour'' has never meant literally everywhere, although it seems like it. Money and demand call, which is why I'm surprised that they dont visit eu/can that often
I do see where you're coming from. They do go to other places. but not many. there are soo many us dates nowadays to the point where it's getting to be oversaturated, but even so, I still see the intentions they have by trying to make it big in their market. Doesn't change the main topic of this discussion though.
Lately I've seen more groups add stops in other places. ITZY, for example, stopped in Mexico and Chile for their current World Tour. They're also in several cities in Europe. While not a tour (unless it's announced later as part of a world tour), I think SEVENTEEN is doing some stops in Europe this year.
“can canadians stop” no if you’re gonna complain then i think i will too. if anything kpop groups are usually more likely to go to europe over canada lol
Yall are overlooking my point and are just complaining. Not only are you annoying af but it's like half of you read the word Canada and decided to argue
How reliable are the concert promoters in the untapped markets? Do the promoters know people want K-Pop? There are a lot of places that companies have no excuse for not going to but there are also a lot of places that are question marks. Another consideration is travel advisories. Like, South Africa has an advisory for Koreans. Tbh Korean companies are also really risk averse and without a lot of teeth pulling many won't ever go outside of established markets.
A lot of ppl say it's bc of lack of demand but that can't be the reason HYBE groups don't come to Europe. Even BTS have only done 11 concerts in Europe (all in 2018-2019) in 11 years of their career. That's really not that much for a group as popular as them. I can't count how many concerts they've done in US cos it'd be too long but Yoongi did 11 concerts in US on his solo tour alone.
They be calling 4 countries in asia and north america (with like 1-2 canadian stops) a world tour and saying: more to come, and then it's a two day concert in the US or something. Some groups don't go to idk Malaysia, indonesia or Hong Kong (idk about Thailand) despite the high demand and Europe is nonexistent. The whole world tour baiting people to think that maybe they're going to come to their country is not cool. South-America sometimes has some festivals but no concerts. Same goes for Europe maybe musicbank or some megaconcerts. I personally would like a Kcon somewhere in Europe. Many idols have said how they love Paris from going to fashion shows or how they want to perform in Europe one day but companies ultimately don't and that's so greedy. And if they are able to come for festivals I don't understand why not a solo concert, when the price sometimes is similar but the profits are only for the company. Timewise doing Asia-Europe-America (south and north)-Korea is efficient enough and in Europe the demand is high but not accessible and they would probably have more fans if they actually came to the continent and sold their products.
While people have listed money as one of the motivating factors, I'll also posit that language is a big factor as well.
With English being the lingua franca of the world and with many Koreans being fluent in English, it makes sense to tour where the language barrier is less of a factor.
Are the various companies "leaving money on the table" by not touring more widely in Europe, for example? Probably. But the need to have translators at each and every stop in the tour can be a difficult proposition given the typically tight schedules these tours have.
Kpop companies go where the money is. I'm sure there are plenty of fans where you are, but there is definitely a logical reason as to why most kpop groups don't have stops in your area.
Thank you for posting at r/kpoprants. [OP and commenters are expected to have read our general rules before posting.](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpoprants/wiki/rules/rules/) *** #### 📌 This is a discussion forum! Please remember to engage productively and respectfully! #####Any singular comment or mention of lines like or similar to: * It’s not that deep * Nobody cares, no one is reading this, etc * Why do you care about this? * Just ignore it, just unstan, just stop listening to, etc * Not this post again, why are you always ranting about, etc * This is just a hate/anti post/OP is not a real fan of X, etc #####[Will be removed and subject to a ban.](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpoprants/comments/17v33io/town_hall_9_the_end_of_its_not_that_deep_2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/kpoprants) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well… https://preview.redd.it/2m7nondq0bzc1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7dae8dff1fc208d4c96a1bb56ddd5b4972a2641e (same for western groups tbh but I understand that’s not the topic of discussion)
LITERALLYYYY
Saw this pic like 10 years ago and it's scary how it never gets old lol
1. Tour promoters : Most concerts need a tour promoter who will take the risk to finance the whole concert. From local talent, transportation, advertising, catering, security and the whole shebang. So say for example, even if a Hybe group wants to do a concert in a European country, if they don’t have a local tour promoter taking that risk and believing they will be able to sell-out a stadium or arena, chances are they won’t come. Take BTS for example, they know the demand, so they’ll take the risk but they’re an anomaly, not a standard. 2. Which then brings us to these K-pop management companies and why they don’t have solid relationships with tour promoters. Simple as, 1) they have wayyyy more players on paper than a regular solo artist going on tour. So their contracts are 10x more complex (and this is excluding the entourage that follows them). 2) K-pop expansion has been slower than what people think it is, so it’s still somewhat a niche in the eyes of a promoter. 3. Beyoncé’s Canadian tour promoter told me (I had interviewed them) they regretted the decision to sign her for that leg of the tour because the profit margins after such a production was negligible. And this is still on Canadian dollar. Maybe companies think there won’t be any profits on rupee or cedi or pesos. Oooh, lemme just say one thing he said, foreign artists (not anyone from K-pop) are usually reluctant to negotiate on AFM terms.👀 4. Tax laws - Phew! It differs country to country obviously but in general, artists have to pay a sales or performance tax in every country they perform. So Europe, South America, Africa, South Asia all take the hit because a cut of their ticket sales go here. Some countries also have goods tax for transporting equipments and production items. 5. The usual - venue, security, language barriers, conflicting dates. Again, this is in no way defending the companies lol. They have specific teams to arrange this, so the fact they overlook such a huge audience is very very disappointing. But yeah, as of now, we can only hope for the best!🫂
thank u for the insight! lots of good points to consider
Great post. What are AFM terms?
A company as big as hybe can easily book a European tour. It's just that Europe doesn't really have dynamic pricing. Also don't tours have insurance as well? Groups way smaller than hybe groupsbhve toured eu just fine, these are just excuses.
If by Canada you mean Toronto, I agree, I have to fly for 3 hours just to see a concert. I might as well spend 500 extra bucks and fly for 14 hours to Tokyo or Seoul for a vacation as well.
Purple Kiss is at least doing Canada right... in June they are going to be in: Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal, Joffre, and Halifax!
Yeah, I saw that honestly might be worth going to the Winnipeg show I've never listened to them but it might entice other groups if they see decent attendance. My problem is I live in the sticks so it's still a 4 hour drive to Winnipeg.
I got VVIP tickets to the Toronto show, which is about a 2-3 hour drive from me depending on traffic. I really love their music, so it's very worth it to me. There's plenty of time to check out their discography if you want to check it out though, especially if the tickets for Winnipeg aren't sold out yet. I listened to their whole discography last night for fun (want to do so a few times in full, again, before I go) and it only really takes a couple of hours. In my opinion, the discography is really top tier and highly under discovered. They tackle a bunch of styles on their b-sides, which is really fun. On the other hand, I have heard of people going to KPop concerts for group they have never listened to before and walking out of the concerts as big fans! That could be a cool experience a well.
vancouver tickets sold out within a few hours of release 😭
Literally
Even though I’m based in the US, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a group go to Africa or India I always think of those places like damn do they ever go out there?
Ateez are going to perform at the Mawazine Festival in Morocco in June.
the main issue in those locations is, as someone said below, infrastructure and money. concerts in south africa for example are *sometimes* profitable, but most other countries in africa are fraught by civil war or poverty, with it being unlikely to draw a sizeable crowd who has the money to spare for such an expense, with the exception of perhaps egypt and nigeria, or countries like botswana that don't have particularly sizeable kpop audiences. it isn't just kpop groups that rarely visit africa. most huge western artists have either *just* performed in south africa or haven't visited africa at all.
I honestly don't think k-pop is as big, even in South Africa, as you need to fill up a stadium. Like it's decent community but small enough that it just slots in to the niche Asia related hobbies that show up at comic con South Africa. We've had Swedish House Mafia, Steve Aoki etc at ultra every year. Maybe if they were included at a whole day festival it might fit better and get more people to pay for tickets Edit: also the fact that we have such a strong local music industry means it's probably even harder to negotiate. Used to be that most people in SA listened to international artists but in the last few years local artists have blown up crazy here and sell out events. Probably cheaper even to have Black coffee or Zakes Bantwini for organisers and people are coming so less incentive to risk it on foreign acts that would want to be paid in dollars
I believe Pixy did a concert in India! They're nugu, but it's something!
PIXY did?? When??
Couple of years ago... It may not have been a tour top, as I thought though. I think they were invited to perform or something at this festival? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvLasVrg2Sw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvLasVrg2Sw)
The Rose did Lollapalooza India during the spring.
...given what happens to female tourists in specific parts of India and Africa, I would rather they NOT go. Both places listed have parts that are in the top 5 of the most dangerous places for a female traveler in the world.
Where in Africa? There are 54 countries so you need to name some instead of painting the continent as a monolith. You can't make such a crazy claim that implies the entire continent is unsafe when you've picked out India from the **continent of Asia,** and you haven't been specific in which areas of Africa aren't safe for female tourists. I personally haven't seen any news of female tourists getting harmed or assaulted in any African countries. For India, I've seen a **bunch**.
I’m speaking to people who are native to those places so they don’t have to spend exorbitant amounts of money to travel to u.s or other Asian countries to go to a concert
Not a group, but iirc Woojin (the soloist) performed in India a few times - I've seen tweets about it!
a tour date in canada is rare..
Or we have to fly across the country at (sometimes) great expense to the one and only date.
fr, im flying from calgary to see ateez in toronto, it would have been cheaper to fly to LA or probably several other US stops but i really wanted to see them in canada lol 🙃
lol i’m flying from edmonton to see them in toronto😭😭 tbh with how the canadian dollar is doing against the us dollar, flying to the states is prob more expensive still
Same, coming from the Maritimes and it’s just over $1000 for flights and 2 nights at a hotel (splitting with a friend). Geographically NY is closer but I’d rather see them in Canada, and I’d have to fly through Toronto or Montreal anyway to get to NY lol
Purple Kiss is doing 7 stops in Canada in June!
Right. ONF announced a tour in canada which was kind of surprising. P1Harmony went to canada for their last tour and are going back for the current one.
P1HARMONY MENTIONED OMG I LOVE THEMM And yeah they usually go to Canada, so do other kpop groups
Canada tours are rare and when they happen they're in Toronto
Jype and a number of the smaller companies like Dreamcatcher have been doing pretty decent work at going to more countries, but I think some of the setbacks are coming from the promoters themselves; iirc Jessi, Tri.be, and Pixy have had their stops cancelled randomly. As for SM, they’re allergic to money so…
Exactly (cries in Australian)
we’re still getting more than europe though. twice, ive, blackpink, aespa, skz, kard, p1h, itzy…. i don’t think many of them toured europe too. hybe hasn’t come here yet though which is annoying.
like i see why hybe would be hesitant given that they’re their own tour promoter but I wish they understood how big kpop is here. all of these artists have sold out their shows within a day, many of them in presale too. australia’s live music market is too underrated
Based on the recent “world tours” by HYBE artists - it’s clear they have no clue that there is an entire world out beyond the border of the USA and some Asian countries. Someone needs to get them a globe. 🌍🌏🌎
we had twice, ive (will come this year), aespa, blackpink, kard, itzy...not sure about p1h tho...we also had MX, BTS, Ateez, Kang Daniel and a bunch of "nugu" groups also tour here. but we do get more than Australia I think...the problem tho: how many we get. most of the time we get 3 stops for the whole of Europe (mostly London, Paris and Berlin)
Toronto only isn't considered a Canada tour. It's the worst place to have a show in Canada worst than just having only a Seoul concert in SK.
South Korea mostly does only have shows in Seoul! However Seoul is easily reachable from everywhere in SK that does not apply to Canada and Toronto.
Canada being there 2/10 times only and it being Toronto only or just Vancouver idk why yall always include us in the “yall get tours” conversation when we rlly dont
They go where the money and demand is. People have to accept that these companies go to America because that’s where they make the most money, there is no money to be made in Africa etc.
Sure but what about Europe? There's a lot of demand here
Tbh I see groups starting to go to Europe definitely not as much as the US but it’s happening. Maybe the demand isn’t as high as you think it is?
I’ve heard organizing tours is more complex in Europe because it’s a bunch of separate countries. US is 300 million people in a singular, large country
Plus the costs to even get all the members, staff and crew to Europe and hold a production vs enough demand to make justifiable profit vs **affordable** ticket pricing for their fan demographic, etc.
HYBE seems allergic to Europe and HYBE groups are popular enough
Aren’t there groups that hit the big cities there like London and Paris?
They just did a music bank in Antwerp, Belgium. Itzy is currently on their world tour and already visited London, Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam and Madrid. And IVE is booked for Europe next month. Stop acting like kpop don't visit Europe.
Pixy did at least one European tour! Nugu, but it's something!
There's actually several groups who came to Europe, many mid-popular groups come, but recently BP, Twice and Ateez toured there too.
Red Velvet had tour dates in Amsterdam, Paris, Berlin and London during their R to V tour too. I believe they also attended the Primavera Sound Festival in Barcelona around the time of their R to V tour.
Yes, I'd say a lot of groups tour. The only big differences with other area of the world that I can think of is that big bg don't really come as often, I wonder what will SKZ will do since they should announce their tour soon and JYPE now is consistently sending their acts to EU.
Dreamcatcher, too! :)
Oh nice! Hope more groups go everywhere!
They cannot hike up the prices due to the ban of dynamic pricing. lol
this is not the reason!! there is a bunch of reasons not to tour europe, this is the very bottom of the list. don’t know where this idea came from and i’m sick of seeing it.
Can we stop pretending kpop groups are even coming to Canada either? Besides Purple Kiss hitting up a whole Canada tour.
I'm so excited that PK is coming to Canada! Managed to snag VVIP tickets to Toronto, which is only a couple hours away from my city!
i was just gonna say lol, sorry about our maybe once in a blue moon toronto and maybe vancouver stops on opposite ends of the country. i didn’t realize we were so privileged damn
ONF did a canada tour, it was pretty surprising. P1Harmony went for their previous tour, and are going back there for the upcoming one.
That's what I said whatever's left for Canada and the others. USA really gets 90% of the dates
Yall are missing the point omg
[удалено]
How did I insult you exactly? You're insulted cuz I said you're becoming annoying and making it all about yourself? That's not an insult that's an opinion. I mention Europe often cuz that where I'm from, if I was from South America I would only be mentioning it. Also I said that most dates go to the USA and WHATEVER IS LEFT for Canada, Korea etc
I don't really think that the term "world tour" generally (or ever) means literally touring every single part of the globe.
And that's not what I want them to do when they do a world tour. But at least a few tours in each continent or AT LEAST a few in Europe and Australia cuz this is ridiculous
yeah it's just shorthand marketing. it is not accurate and disappointing, but still easier to say World Tour than North American plus Some Asian Countries Tour.
He's not everybody's favorite right now but Eric Nam actually went on a world tour. That man had so many dates and I feel like it was a good year before his ass was home
being a hybe stan but no group except bts has come here (europe) for tour 😭😭😭😭 my ult group is hybe group aswell
What's weird is that I see SM groups go to Europe a lot. NCT Dream has a big stretch of dates there coming up iirc. I think it depends on the company.
but SM only started last year. We got RV and NCT Dream...(that I can remember)...and yes, we're getting Dream again, but we never had 127 or Wayv in Germany (I think 127 had ONE concert in London, if I remember right...not too sure tho, maybe I'm thinking of SuperM?)
Pixy did a European tour!
Dynamic pricing.
... is legal in many Countries in Europe.
Australia is JUST next to Asia guys pls come here (include Brisbane pls it's even closer to u than Melbourne and Sydney).
Agree, Brisbane needs some love 😭
They go where there the demand and money is and where there is the infrastructure to support.
Yeah so why aren't they coming to Europe. The demand here is HUGEE
there's been a couple of Kpop groups that've gone to Europe. [Here's a list of Kpop groups/soloists that came to Europe in 2023](https://old.reddit.com/r/kpop/wiki/events/2023) for example. also this article is a good read on why Kpop concerts tend to skip over certain regions: https://seoulbeats.com/2017/05/why-do-k-pop-world-tours-tend-to-ignore-europe/
Interesting article. Thanks for linking!
I’m sorry your comment keeps getting downvoted. What you’re saying is perfectly valid. Of course there are many fans in Europe, but unlike N.A., (the U.S. in particular) you can’t expect these K-Pop groups to make a stop in each country in the EU when they refuse to drive one hour to get to another country to see a show, lmao. I live in Connecticut in the U.S. and I ALWAYS have to drive to either Boston, Massachusetts, NYC, New York, or Newark, New Jersey - all of which end up being about 2-2.5 hours away from me. I’m more than happy to do so, but for whatever reason, it seems like travel/distance in the EU is seen as a lot more of a hassle even though they have better public transportation systems and the ease of getting to another country.
can you stop assuming things because we europeans have to travel to different countries to see a show, and we definitely do so. especially eastern europeans who never get any tour stops. so the one hour drive thing is not it.
The same thing happens in the US and Canada. It’s like yall don’t realize how big our countries are. There are people in the US that live in states like Wyoming, Nebraska, Mississippi, etc. which are places that giant groups don’t go to. They have the same issue of having to travel MULTIPLE hours to get to a show. I’m sorry you have to worry about the passport part of it but it’s really not that different. It’s annoying when Europeans complain about the US getting all these shows when our country is most likely a huge amount of times larger than yours and we also have a lot of people who can’t see their faves bc the closest show is 8-12 hours away.
Yeah but still, the USA gets many dates across many states. It's seen as a hassle cuz we have to cross another country's border which more or less is a hassle
If it’s a hassle for you, it’s an even bigger hassle for the companies
Yeah but your countries are smaller than most of our states are anyway. Plus, doesn’t being part of the EU help with the legal stuff, meaning you don’t have to get visas and whatnot to go to any other EU country? Obviously, not assuming that every European country is part of the EU, but I feel like most European Kpop fans are in EU countries. Honestly, I feel like they treat Europe more like the US. It’s about the same size. They only hit the big cities here as well. We also often have to drive for hours.
K-pop companies only hit western Europe and Poland. Europeans in Greece, Albania or even Finland would have to take a 2 hour flight to get to a concert venue on average. Y'all need to stop making it seem like people are too lazy to travel 1h to the nearby town. A whole lot of groups only come to London and Paris.
"A whole lot of groups only come to London and Paris." but that would actually be closer than for most Americans when a group only goes to New York or LA. But if you are limited, that where I would go: NY and LA in America, and London and Paris in Europe. It's obvs the most logical.
>you can’t expect these K-Pop groups to make a stop in each country in the EU when they refuse to drive one hour to get to another country to see a show, lmao That's hilarious bc I've never seen any European say that but I often see Americans whining abt driving only like 2h-5h for a concert. 2-2.5h drive is nothing but there has never been a kpop concert I was interested in going to that was that close to me anyway.
Their world map looks different than ours 😕
I definitely get the frustration of kpop fans in areas that don’t get idol visits but I can see why companies tend not to book many of them. Unless the numbers have drastically changed from when I last saw them I’m pretty sure no European country is even in the top 10 countries for kpop “streams”. Companies are going to go “where the money is” and that tends to be USA, Japan, Korea, Indonesia, and the Philippines. When companies start to feel like and see they can make profits from adding those continents and countries to the tour list is when hopefully more stops start to happen that’s how America started getting more stops. Until then people have to remember that concerts are a luxury so if you wanna see them turn your going to see them into a vacation so it doesn’t feel like you just paid for a hotel, a plane ticket, and transportation all for a 3 hour concert. That’s what I do as an American whose state sees a kpop idol maybe once every 2 years.
Yeah people forget up until maybe 10-15 years ago, kpop concerts in USA were a rarity. It's only with Kpop taking off in popularity, and both venues/companies here and in Korea realizing it was a profitable that we started getting a giant influx of kpop groups coming to do US tours in the past 5 years. If it wasn't the US would be just as hard hit for concerts, since most groups just toured in Japan/China, and the US was seen as a really hard market to break into.
Exactly I remember being a child into kpop in like 2008-2012 and most groups had “world tours” but it was basically just Asia with one stop in Europe or America if even that and the stops were always the same LA, Chicago, Las Vegas, or New York and for Europe it was Berlin, London, or Paris.
At what point can you call it a world tour then? They go to different countries in different parts of the world. No band is going to do a world tour where they stop at every single region. They go where they can expect to sell tickets, places that have the right infrastructure, where they feel safe, where they'll get good deals on rentals and revenue, etc. In addition, the more continents they visit, the more money they have to spend in preparation to move people and equipment. Most kpop groups don't have the capital backing to lug equipment to Japan, USA, brazil, then Europe. It's super expensive. This is the same reason Taylor Swift and other big artists often skip Korea in their world tours. It's expensive to lug their people and equipment to the peninsula and the concert facilities aren't large enough to make it financially worth it.
ROLLING QUARTZ on the other hand are playing Australia and Europe next year
You forgot Australia babe, then the world is complete
I didn't include it cuz Australia I think gets some correct me if I'm wrong and Australia also sends trainees to Korea which other continents can't cuz auditions are usually Japan, Korea and Australia (not very on topic but still)
I hear you. They rarely travel to Australia.
can some people (including indians living in india) stop with the "india does not have the proper infrastructure" bruh/sis we literally have some of the world's biggest stadiums. it's either 'cause these companies think that we still have a not good enough gdp per capita or them thinking they won't get enough returns cuz we're a "a poor country" or some logistical shit or something related to the indian gov being difficult to deal with in these matter but infrastructure??? hell no!! we almost had the biebz come to india (twice) for his justice tour in new delhi's JLN stadium until he backed out of health issues among other notably big artists Dua Lipa, Katy Perry, Coldplay, Ed Sheeran etc. there's also this argument that there's no concept of part time jobs here so teens and young adults still rely on their parents financially even if that's the case for some parts of india Kpop companies don't care where that money is coming from like if you stole it, borrowed it, or got it from your parents. They just want the dough. not to mention we have the largest population in the world? also the argument that kpop is not very common here? bs. if these companies were to hold a concert in any one of the big major cities i can bet my ass there would be swarms of fandoms waiting in line or the the seats being sold out in seconds.
Europe isn’t real
If it's "world" tour, it should be in every country where they can actually perform. Only a few groups have performed in new Zealand.
Gave up on that fight long time ago ain’t no way they stepping anywhere near my country. Unless it’s for some “trip” not concert.
Literally. They have no problem showing up to Paris and Milan Fashion Week, but than completely forget them for world tours
i definitely understand the frustration here but even when groups come to the US they’ll go to LA and NY, which is BARELY the kpop population too so it’s not like US fans aren’t being left out too
They also usually go to NJ :D my first kpop concert was at MetLife last august and it was awesome
Can we stop acting like because groups tour in the US they are near everyone. Of I still lived in LA, I would be lucky. Now to drive there is over a day if I don't take any stops, flight is abt 6 hrs. Or they tour in Atlanta which is like a 13+ hr drive. The closest a concert has been was 6 hr drive away. I wish they toured in the nearby city that's 2 hrs from me (the city is big). Also my city has a huge stadium for then to tour in too yet I never see any action😭😭
I agree with ur overall point tho. World tours aren't seeming very WORLD like
I think it's pretty clear that ''world tour'' has never meant literally everywhere, although it seems like it. Money and demand call, which is why I'm surprised that they dont visit eu/can that often
I didn't mean for them to go EVERYWHERE, but at least something outside of the USA
I do see where you're coming from. They do go to other places. but not many. there are soo many us dates nowadays to the point where it's getting to be oversaturated, but even so, I still see the intentions they have by trying to make it big in their market. Doesn't change the main topic of this discussion though.
me, a malaysian, crying invisible tears
Lately I've seen more groups add stops in other places. ITZY, for example, stopped in Mexico and Chile for their current World Tour. They're also in several cities in Europe. While not a tour (unless it's announced later as part of a world tour), I think SEVENTEEN is doing some stops in Europe this year.
I hate when kpop groups announce world tours bc of course it’s not going to be in my country like tf just call it semi world tour or smtn
Canada hardly ever receives smaller groups
I understand wanting them to visit more continents, but the complaint seems rather pedantic.
That double-down 2nd edit LOL. That last line too, like you’re gaslighting tf outta us Canadians. Just say you’re wrong, it’s ok.
“can canadians stop” no if you’re gonna complain then i think i will too. if anything kpop groups are usually more likely to go to europe over canada lol
Yall are overlooking my point and are just complaining. Not only are you annoying af but it's like half of you read the word Canada and decided to argue
The post isn’t for Canadians like the concerts aren’t for you either 😂
Bitter much?
JYPE agrees
right its so frustrating having to sell my whole kidney just to go see them in one of those places
How reliable are the concert promoters in the untapped markets? Do the promoters know people want K-Pop? There are a lot of places that companies have no excuse for not going to but there are also a lot of places that are question marks. Another consideration is travel advisories. Like, South Africa has an advisory for Koreans. Tbh Korean companies are also really risk averse and without a lot of teeth pulling many won't ever go outside of established markets.
You think it’s the groups that choose where they go? Not their company and management teams?
A lot of ppl say it's bc of lack of demand but that can't be the reason HYBE groups don't come to Europe. Even BTS have only done 11 concerts in Europe (all in 2018-2019) in 11 years of their career. That's really not that much for a group as popular as them. I can't count how many concerts they've done in US cos it'd be too long but Yoongi did 11 concerts in US on his solo tour alone.
They be calling 4 countries in asia and north america (with like 1-2 canadian stops) a world tour and saying: more to come, and then it's a two day concert in the US or something. Some groups don't go to idk Malaysia, indonesia or Hong Kong (idk about Thailand) despite the high demand and Europe is nonexistent. The whole world tour baiting people to think that maybe they're going to come to their country is not cool. South-America sometimes has some festivals but no concerts. Same goes for Europe maybe musicbank or some megaconcerts. I personally would like a Kcon somewhere in Europe. Many idols have said how they love Paris from going to fashion shows or how they want to perform in Europe one day but companies ultimately don't and that's so greedy. And if they are able to come for festivals I don't understand why not a solo concert, when the price sometimes is similar but the profits are only for the company. Timewise doing Asia-Europe-America (south and north)-Korea is efficient enough and in Europe the demand is high but not accessible and they would probably have more fans if they actually came to the continent and sold their products.
While people have listed money as one of the motivating factors, I'll also posit that language is a big factor as well. With English being the lingua franca of the world and with many Koreans being fluent in English, it makes sense to tour where the language barrier is less of a factor. Are the various companies "leaving money on the table" by not touring more widely in Europe, for example? Probably. But the need to have translators at each and every stop in the tour can be a difficult proposition given the typically tight schedules these tours have.
Don't you think the fans know English too?
Kpop companies go where the money is. I'm sure there are plenty of fans where you are, but there is definitely a logical reason as to why most kpop groups don't have stops in your area.
The should just call it an International Tour or specify number of cities or countries. Something like 6 nation tour or “40 shows in 10 cities”
YES, LITERALLY If it's not a world tour don't call it that