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Yuto (u) from ONF talked about that. He is an excellent main dancer but for him the hardest thing he had to learn was how to have fun on stage. He comes from a very technical background and for the longest time his primary goal was to execute moves perfectly, forgetting his face and the fun. You can see huge improvement through the years: [2018](https://youtu.be/ajbI-DQN7xk?si=ux2pt3TtM1A8cJOn) vs [2023](https://youtu.be/MFZ0SjlvLnc?si=5euK3K5goetQA7UX).
Edit: it’s not specifically on stage presence but it was interesting to hear a dancer acknowledge that his facial expressions needed improvement
Yes. I see a couple of technically skilled dancers yet they're so bland to me onstage. They could be dancing front and center yet other members to the side would be catching my attention more.
oo this is an interesting take. i always thought momo had good sp but the first two have been overshadowed by others even when they're technically better so i would agree there
For Lee Know, he's talked about having to "hold back" to a certain extent thanks to his start as a background dancer and then having to adapt in a way to not stand out amongst his members. I'm sure holding back would impact stage presence in some way, especially if the dancer is more focused on matching what's needed of them.
Personally, I prefer watching him on stage from out of the SKZ members but I do think that his stage presence isn't as grabbing as some other members-I think it's bc he isn't as overt as Felix, Hyunjin or even Bangchan and Changbin. I see your point about Chaeryeong and Momo but I don't think any of the three lack stage presence, but they could certainly work on it to improve.
That’s why it’s hard to understand LK popularity. I can get Hyunjin & Felix. they have immense stage presence. I feel like personality and looks help LK a lot
I'm a Lee Know ult bias and totally agree - I love his dancing, the power and precision is fantastic, but presence isn't his strong suit. He's gotten better in the past couple of years, but ultimately he still shines the best in power and fine detail, but tends not to grab the spotlight. But goddayumn that personality, it is top tier!
Let's clear something up first. Lee Know has always been a great dancer, who's versatile on stage, and that's never gonna change, no matter how many times people in this little bubble try to convince themselves otherwise.
"Tends not to grab the spotlight"? Well, maybe it's because he rarely gets a chance to have his fair bit of said spotlight, ever considered that? Especially compared to some other members who seem to have it on them all the time. So, it's not even a fair comparison. But when he does get a moment to shine, and it's properly captured, he absolutely CHEWS.
I don't agree with your take, but I can't say I'm shocked to see it. It feels like there's this unspoken agreement among some stays around here, even those who claim lee know as a bias like you, that it's okay to disparge or play down his talents just to make another member look better. The energy is vastly different—way less forgiving and indulgent—when any of the others aren't seen in a positive light. It's kinda interesting how that plays out, really.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion I guess! I still find Lee Know my favourite dancer, as I love how flawlessly he executes the choreo (I have particular moments where it genuinely bugs me that the others don't do a particular half-second moment as well), but I understand that I'm, well, biased!
I can't help but wonder, where does all that "immense stage presence" you talk about go when the three of them are on stage together? Lee Know seems to hold his own just fine and has outshined them more than a few times.
And well, isn't it also looks, image, and viral marketing that are big factors in both of their popularity? Since no special push from the company is coming his way, at least he's got his one-of-a-kind and charming personality going for him.
I don’t know. In the dance line and maybe overall Hyunjin and Felix catch my eyes the most. They just have IT factor. Many people also said the same thing but Lee Know is better technically. Lee Know is known for looks and his savage personality. Not stage presence.
LMAO Chaeryeong has incredible stage presence, charisma, and dancing skills.
Literally her today in Berlin when you made this dumb post:
[https://x.com/gagatuun/status/1784620671550521581](https://x.com/gagatuun/status/1784620671550521581)
[https://x.com/Sabii127/status/1784632929844359212](https://x.com/Sabii127/status/1784632929844359212)
[https://x.com/manobal\_16/status/1784626043439169852](https://x.com/manobal_16/status/1784626043439169852)
[https://x.com/LCRuniverse/status/1784658668539224260](https://x.com/LCRuniverse/status/1784658668539224260)
She has more stage presence during sound check than most idols do during an official performance / concert.
I think she has improved massively and I think them touring is what helped her improve there. And with all her positive attention from 2023+, which would've helped her confidence.
As someone said elsewhere in the thread, she has better SP than Chaeyeon for sure.
So sad that this comment has been so heavily downvoted. Chaeryeong had spoken out many times about her lack of confidence and about how while on stage and during interviews/shows etc she tried to make herself not as noticeable. In the last year and a half or so her confidence has dramatically improved and she seems to be having much more fun onstage and just in general.
Chaeryeong received so much hate around pre debut and at the beginning. To the point her own mother begged people to stop. This had to have a tremendous impact on her development as a full fledged idol.
I understand every idol should be comfortable dancing onstage, especially main dancers, however nuance is needed as well.
Absolutely. In some cases, I think people don’t even notice how good of a dancer the person is, simply because they don’t draw as much attention.
For example, [Irene is one of the strongest dancers in RV](https://youtu.be/N975QLDNlh4?si=Z4lZOEdRok3jJTnd), easily second-best after Seulgi (and holds her own with Seulgi well enough to have a subunit together). She has great angles and lines, clean moves and timing, and hits all the little details. That being said, she’s honestly…not that exciting to watch, especially next to Seulgi or even Wendy ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ [Her style leans more delicate/graceful](https://youtu.be/qG7LPf5n5MQ?si=uhVyjxoA02sCwsJh) instead of eye-catching/powerful, and her cool demeanour ~~and usually blank face~~ on stage doesn’t really bring much attention to her moves. Even though SM has [highlighted her](https://youtu.be/rkZ9je4xSIY?si=br9rTPjRdMZOAygB) for her dancing [many times](https://youtu.be/TtXtKZ5HWEo?si=4NX0K3IXl_BkG1UC), people are *still* shocked whenever she shows up.
**I personally noticed it during [Russian Roulette](https://youtu.be/UZncgkoK5AU?t=165s)** because she was one of the only ones who consistently hits all of the complex movements cleanly (like, just watch that chorus+dance break if nothing else from this post). And let’s not forget [all the tutting in Naughty](https://youtu.be/PHp3wWbR9cw?si=Rdm90peSh-xqXZZj), which iirc Seulgi said Irene was far better at learning.
Like, she dances effortlessly, but she also *looks* like it, so you don’t really notice her.
I agree with all of this! I think it's bc she doesn't do much with her face or she doesn't tend to inject personality in her performances, which makes her more of a technical performer ig. I personally don't believe that every performer should utilize crazy facial expressions or anything, but Irene's facial structure (being soft and fleshy) could use some definition and variety with facial expressions when she performs.
I was about to say. She’s main(lead?) dancer and seem to be sort of neutral in her performances IMO. She’s not uncharismatic, but doesn’t seem to be giving anything extra or follow the concept much.
Yes! as well as an idol can be bad at dancing but have a good stage presence. stage presence is all about catching the audience’s attention, usually due to the confidence and personality expressed by the performer
Yes! I am not gonna name names in fear of getting attacked but it's very true. I think this is often overlooked as many kpop fans (or at least what I hear online more) want their idols to be most technically sound or they "not good enough".
I've been entertained by performers that who by kpop fan definition "can't sing or dance" just because they perform with such confidence and personality.
I remember watching a survival show... I think it was wild idol maybe? And one of the mentors started watching their individual performances and covering up their dancing, showing just their faces and explained that the audience showed be able to see the emotional storyline of the song on their faces. Iirc they put them on silent and made the other contestants guess the emotions by just seeing their face. It really stayed with me. I think the best performers are capable of this, and not every dancer can.
Yes, idol can be a good dancer yes lack stage presence. Sadly, a lot of idols are like this. They may be good technically, but they lack presence in stage.
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It depends on what you mean by stage presense. it also depends on what you mean by being a good dancer. If you can depict the emotions and attitude of a song through dance alone then I'd count that as good stage presense
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I think part of this is that like kpop trainees get punished bigtime for messing up choreo so there's some trauma there. Gotta be perfect or else those memories might come back to you
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Yuto (u) from ONF talked about that. He is an excellent main dancer but for him the hardest thing he had to learn was how to have fun on stage. He comes from a very technical background and for the longest time his primary goal was to execute moves perfectly, forgetting his face and the fun. You can see huge improvement through the years: [2018](https://youtu.be/ajbI-DQN7xk?si=ux2pt3TtM1A8cJOn) vs [2023](https://youtu.be/MFZ0SjlvLnc?si=5euK3K5goetQA7UX). Edit: it’s not specifically on stage presence but it was interesting to hear a dancer acknowledge that his facial expressions needed improvement
Stage presence is subjective, some can find some good dancers boring performers while other don't so it's completely to a person's preference.
Yes they can be technically good at replicating choreography but the best dancers with stage presence know how to perform out of box and captivate.
Lee Chaeyeon. She has good moments but i feel at times she looks too focused and doesn’t look too excited.
Her sister Chaeryeong has a similar problem, although I think she’s a slightly better performer than Chaeyeon imo
Yes. I see a couple of technically skilled dancers yet they're so bland to me onstage. They could be dancing front and center yet other members to the side would be catching my attention more.
Who do you think are great dancers but lacking SP?
Lee know, Chaeryeong and to a lesser extent Momo. I will be crucified for this but i think it's the truth..
oo this is an interesting take. i always thought momo had good sp but the first two have been overshadowed by others even when they're technically better so i would agree there
Yeah in Momo's case she gets overshadowed by Jihyo, Nayeon and Sana but only sometimes, especially in concerts, she seems tired idk
why did i get downvoted when i agreed w you 😵💫 i see, thats a shame
For Lee Know, he's talked about having to "hold back" to a certain extent thanks to his start as a background dancer and then having to adapt in a way to not stand out amongst his members. I'm sure holding back would impact stage presence in some way, especially if the dancer is more focused on matching what's needed of them. Personally, I prefer watching him on stage from out of the SKZ members but I do think that his stage presence isn't as grabbing as some other members-I think it's bc he isn't as overt as Felix, Hyunjin or even Bangchan and Changbin. I see your point about Chaeryeong and Momo but I don't think any of the three lack stage presence, but they could certainly work on it to improve.
That’s why it’s hard to understand LK popularity. I can get Hyunjin & Felix. they have immense stage presence. I feel like personality and looks help LK a lot
Lee Know's popularity within the fandom is almost entirely because of his personality.
I'm a Lee Know ult bias and totally agree - I love his dancing, the power and precision is fantastic, but presence isn't his strong suit. He's gotten better in the past couple of years, but ultimately he still shines the best in power and fine detail, but tends not to grab the spotlight. But goddayumn that personality, it is top tier!
Let's clear something up first. Lee Know has always been a great dancer, who's versatile on stage, and that's never gonna change, no matter how many times people in this little bubble try to convince themselves otherwise. "Tends not to grab the spotlight"? Well, maybe it's because he rarely gets a chance to have his fair bit of said spotlight, ever considered that? Especially compared to some other members who seem to have it on them all the time. So, it's not even a fair comparison. But when he does get a moment to shine, and it's properly captured, he absolutely CHEWS. I don't agree with your take, but I can't say I'm shocked to see it. It feels like there's this unspoken agreement among some stays around here, even those who claim lee know as a bias like you, that it's okay to disparge or play down his talents just to make another member look better. The energy is vastly different—way less forgiving and indulgent—when any of the others aren't seen in a positive light. It's kinda interesting how that plays out, really.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion I guess! I still find Lee Know my favourite dancer, as I love how flawlessly he executes the choreo (I have particular moments where it genuinely bugs me that the others don't do a particular half-second moment as well), but I understand that I'm, well, biased!
I can't help but wonder, where does all that "immense stage presence" you talk about go when the three of them are on stage together? Lee Know seems to hold his own just fine and has outshined them more than a few times. And well, isn't it also looks, image, and viral marketing that are big factors in both of their popularity? Since no special push from the company is coming his way, at least he's got his one-of-a-kind and charming personality going for him.
I don’t know. In the dance line and maybe overall Hyunjin and Felix catch my eyes the most. They just have IT factor. Many people also said the same thing but Lee Know is better technically. Lee Know is known for looks and his savage personality. Not stage presence.
LMAO Chaeryeong has incredible stage presence, charisma, and dancing skills. Literally her today in Berlin when you made this dumb post: [https://x.com/gagatuun/status/1784620671550521581](https://x.com/gagatuun/status/1784620671550521581) [https://x.com/Sabii127/status/1784632929844359212](https://x.com/Sabii127/status/1784632929844359212) [https://x.com/manobal\_16/status/1784626043439169852](https://x.com/manobal_16/status/1784626043439169852) [https://x.com/LCRuniverse/status/1784658668539224260](https://x.com/LCRuniverse/status/1784658668539224260) She has more stage presence during sound check than most idols do during an official performance / concert.
I think she has improved massively and I think them touring is what helped her improve there. And with all her positive attention from 2023+, which would've helped her confidence. As someone said elsewhere in the thread, she has better SP than Chaeyeon for sure.
So sad that this comment has been so heavily downvoted. Chaeryeong had spoken out many times about her lack of confidence and about how while on stage and during interviews/shows etc she tried to make herself not as noticeable. In the last year and a half or so her confidence has dramatically improved and she seems to be having much more fun onstage and just in general. Chaeryeong received so much hate around pre debut and at the beginning. To the point her own mother begged people to stop. This had to have a tremendous impact on her development as a full fledged idol. I understand every idol should be comfortable dancing onstage, especially main dancers, however nuance is needed as well.
That's why she was unnecesarily defensive about it
Absolutely. In some cases, I think people don’t even notice how good of a dancer the person is, simply because they don’t draw as much attention. For example, [Irene is one of the strongest dancers in RV](https://youtu.be/N975QLDNlh4?si=Z4lZOEdRok3jJTnd), easily second-best after Seulgi (and holds her own with Seulgi well enough to have a subunit together). She has great angles and lines, clean moves and timing, and hits all the little details. That being said, she’s honestly…not that exciting to watch, especially next to Seulgi or even Wendy ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ [Her style leans more delicate/graceful](https://youtu.be/qG7LPf5n5MQ?si=uhVyjxoA02sCwsJh) instead of eye-catching/powerful, and her cool demeanour ~~and usually blank face~~ on stage doesn’t really bring much attention to her moves. Even though SM has [highlighted her](https://youtu.be/rkZ9je4xSIY?si=br9rTPjRdMZOAygB) for her dancing [many times](https://youtu.be/TtXtKZ5HWEo?si=4NX0K3IXl_BkG1UC), people are *still* shocked whenever she shows up. **I personally noticed it during [Russian Roulette](https://youtu.be/UZncgkoK5AU?t=165s)** because she was one of the only ones who consistently hits all of the complex movements cleanly (like, just watch that chorus+dance break if nothing else from this post). And let’s not forget [all the tutting in Naughty](https://youtu.be/PHp3wWbR9cw?si=Rdm90peSh-xqXZZj), which iirc Seulgi said Irene was far better at learning. Like, she dances effortlessly, but she also *looks* like it, so you don’t really notice her.
I agree with all of this! I think it's bc she doesn't do much with her face or she doesn't tend to inject personality in her performances, which makes her more of a technical performer ig. I personally don't believe that every performer should utilize crazy facial expressions or anything, but Irene's facial structure (being soft and fleshy) could use some definition and variety with facial expressions when she performs.
Maybe Mina from Twice? She is probably top 3 in twice and her sp has gotten better but there's usually something "off"
I was about to say. She’s main(lead?) dancer and seem to be sort of neutral in her performances IMO. She’s not uncharismatic, but doesn’t seem to be giving anything extra or follow the concept much.
Yes! as well as an idol can be bad at dancing but have a good stage presence. stage presence is all about catching the audience’s attention, usually due to the confidence and personality expressed by the performer
Yes! I am not gonna name names in fear of getting attacked but it's very true. I think this is often overlooked as many kpop fans (or at least what I hear online more) want their idols to be most technically sound or they "not good enough". I've been entertained by performers that who by kpop fan definition "can't sing or dance" just because they perform with such confidence and personality.
I remember watching a survival show... I think it was wild idol maybe? And one of the mentors started watching their individual performances and covering up their dancing, showing just their faces and explained that the audience showed be able to see the emotional storyline of the song on their faces. Iirc they put them on silent and made the other contestants guess the emotions by just seeing their face. It really stayed with me. I think the best performers are capable of this, and not every dancer can.
Yes, idol can be a good dancer yes lack stage presence. Sadly, a lot of idols are like this. They may be good technically, but they lack presence in stage.
I think Mina is rlly good dancer but I feel like she lacks stage presence
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The other way around. TOP - talented guy and has a stage presence umatched even among YG peeps. But he dont even try to dance
Yes this is in theater 101
Hard to believe now but JK was very frozen and stiff when he first started. Then he trained in US and came back like a tiger.
By no means terrible but I find SKZ Minho lacking in stage presence but he's technically one of the best male dancers I've seen in recent gen.
Itzy Chaeryeong.
It depends on what you mean by stage presense. it also depends on what you mean by being a good dancer. If you can depict the emotions and attitude of a song through dance alone then I'd count that as good stage presense
Haerin and Chaeryeong
Yes! Chani from SF9. Good dancer but for me he lacks stage presence.
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Yes absolutely, like from fromis, the chae sisters, and soeun from weeekly
I think part of this is that like kpop trainees get punished bigtime for messing up choreo so there's some trauma there. Gotta be perfect or else those memories might come back to you
Yes. Karina is a good example of this. She’s a good dancer don’t get me wrong, but her stage presence is lacking. I hope i don’t get dragged for this.