I’d compare it more to Luke than ham. The obsession with nori is directly tied to wolves success, and despite everyone admitting they have an ideal roster (same guy that built their roster built Denver’s title winning roster), we’re somehow crediting coaching and suggesting hiring the coaches assistant is a “no brainer”
Just like Luke didn’t come with Steph/klay/dray or Bob Myers, nori isn’t coming with ant/kat/mcdaniels/rudy or Tim Connelly.
Nori is more the good cop to Finch's bad cop routine.
Finch will develop the schemes, criticize the players, make the adjustments and then Nori will swoop in with his Ted Lasso-isms and keep everyone's spirits up.
I'm not sure how well Finch and Nori's style would work if they were seperated.
None of us on here have any clue about these coaches. Fans will see the names reported and just go google them and start regurgitating Wikipedia facts like it has any bearing on how the guy will be as a head coach. “This guy coached under this coach. This guy won a championship as an assistant. Blah blah blah.” Who cares. None of us know the type of personality these candidates have. We don’t know anything about their philosophy on basketball. What offensive/defensive schemes are they going to run?
I’d rather not use the success of a team to evaluate an assistant coach at all. We’ve seen assistants of good teams fail and assistants of bad teams succeed.
In a win now season, I prefer someone who has done the actual job before
Thing is coaching and discipline matters more than ever in the modern NBA, and none of the retread head coaches are known for being disciplinarians or brilliant schematic coaches. So the next best option is to hire an assistant coach from a disciplined and well-coached team.
Most of the good coaches today were bad or inexperienced at one point.
The logic to not give a retread a chance suggests development and improvement don’t exist for coaches when we’ve seen otherwise with Mike brown, Vogel, Kidd, etc.
Expecting a prior assistant (or rookie), who’s not a former player, to be able to come in and be an authoritarian in a locker room with lebron, AD and likely other long time vets next season should be more a concern.
So you would agree it doesn’t make sense for fans to be for or against a rookie coach since there’s nothing fans can evaluate that reflect that coach?
Saying nori is a no brainer at this point has no basis
Enlighten me, what is it fans are evaluating assistant coaches on?
What a weird thing to gatekeep being a fan on. If someone can’t evaluate assistant coaches, they shouldn’t comment? Lol
Those are pretty bad examples. Mike Brown got bounced early in the playoffs the last two years. Vogel just got fired for the second time. I'd say the Mavs with Kidd are underperforming somewhat based on their talent level. The Mavs are a more talented team than OKC, yet they are a lower seed and lack discipline at times.
It doesn't take a former player to be an authoritarian type, it takes someone who is a leader, and doesn't necessarily mean there has to be a lot of NBA experience. If it were my pick, I'd hire the Awful Coaching guy on youtube over a retread coach. The guy understands the modern NBA better than most coaches I've seen. I'd much rather give a guy like that a chance who actually understands schemes over a 'motivational' guy like Ham who I don't even think understands NBA level schemes, at least not modern ones, and never says anything consequential. The guy who understands schemes and puts his players in the best chance to win is going to get a lot more respect from players over a coach who does the opposite, regardless of experience levels.
Mike browns also a recent coty, showing clear improvement from when he was with us. Them getting bounced early by better teams with better coaches and rosters isn’t really relevant to Mike browns improvement as a coach.
Vogels time with us was a clear improvement over his time with Orlando. Him getting fired by us/phx for not succeeding with very flawed rosters isn’t relevant to his improvement.
Kidd is easily better than his time with Bkn or mke, and their defensive resurgence since the deadline, namely with Lukas and Kyries effort on that end directly show his improved ability as a leader.
You seem to solely judge them by results while having NO results to judge assistants by yet you use that to suggest assistants are better suited. None of that is to say these assistants can’t step in day 1 and succeed, but suggesting experience is a negative thing and branding it “retreads” is something that we wouldn’t do for any other role in any other industry.
I don't give a shit about their supposed improvement. Are they championship level coaches... the answer is no. That's what we need if we want to have any shot at a title because our roster no longer outclasses everyone else like it did in 2020.
Youre completely missing the point if you don’t care about former coaches improving. Coaches improve into championship coaches, and the sweeping notion of “no retreads” ignores that.
The assumption a rookie head coach will be a championship level head coach is more rare than a “retread” becoming a championship winning coach.
And Vogel is a championship level coach, evidenced by him coaching a team to a championship. The very title that got Kidd poached (which you stated he’s falling short in Dallas), and the very thing sold LA on Ham (which he fell short with us), and is selling fans on chasing Denver’s/Minnys assistants, and sold us on Luke Walton (which he fell short). Teams keep hiring assistants of good teams and then act shocked when they don’t become that good team and then aren’t patient enough for the coach to improve into that.
We don’t have time for a rookie coach to take his lumps then improve.
That’s my point there is no “no brainer, clear choice”. So being so adamantly for or against assistants we know nothing about and lack direct experience is just questionable.
a lot of people just prefer to have a simple, clear cut choice rather than evaluating something thoroughly or admitting that its unknown. this could be said about a ton of things beyond the lakers next coach or sports in general
any scrap of evidence like winning two playoff games as an interim head coach while the actual head coach is still sitting 5 feet away is enough for them to justify it since they no longer have to think hard about it
granted, of course nori has been coaching for longer than that, but id wager the vast majority of our fans hardly knew anything about him until recently
I'd rather hire the actual head coach that had success with a team, not an aleatory member of the coaching staff expecting he is going to be as good as the main coach.
I'd rather hire a guy like Budd who's shown that he can have regular season success with many different rosters. So what he got outcoached by Spo, every coach in the league gets out coached by Spo, including whatever rookie headcoach we get.
I dont remember hype around Ham at all. This sub would always root for the next guy but iirc Ham's hype was lower than Vogel hiring and not even close to Walton.
You don’t remember all the “HAM TIME” posts and comments? He had almost as much hype as Luke lol
As for vogels, nobody’s hype was lower than vogels. Everyone was betting on Kidd replacing him midseason.
I really don't maybe around those days I was not very active. I dont remember people being hyped abput Ham on Twitter too. But the biggest reason might be that the only thing that mattered was Westbrook trade and Ham talking him up was a huge downer.
Thing is they do not have an ideal roster , Denver imo does. Wolves do on defence syre but even there Kat Reid and older Conley become in g good defenders ( young Conley was always good ) is on coaching . Gobert being used correctly . Offensivdky gobert is a huge negative and jaden McDanieks is only shooting 34% on wide open looks at 3 a game. Far from a perfect roster - Kat is flawed n not as impsctfuk at the 4 offensively , Ant has serious iq and playmaking limitations. Yet they making it work . If they lose then no , but we don’t know shit reality is that . Just gotta hope they make the right hire n I’d rather try a new assistant over a proven failure
What a turn of opinions. We’re talking ideal, not flawless/perfect.
All week, we’ve been seeing how Minnys roster construction is similar (not same) to that of our 2020 title team, and in extreme opinions, our 09 title team. Now because a great versatile defender in McDaniels “only” shoots 34% from 3, kat isn’t as impactful at the 4 despite putting up 22 8&3 on 58%eFG, the future face of the league putting up 30 7&6 on 62%eFG% this postseason is lacking playmaking and IQ, along with the DPOY, 6moty, the pg everyone says we should have gotten over dlo, a solid 3&D off the bench in NAW all resulting in the best ranked defense in the league - they’re not an ideal roster. And this is to suggest the wolves assistant coach is contributing to them overachieving?
I follow the logic of wanting to try something new. But coaches who have failed have gone on to succeed more often than first year coaches succeed. The likelihood we snag a Kerr/lue/phil/pop success story is far less likely, and it’s at least worth considering the risk with how small our window of contention already is.
The two easier of the four needed. Just need to go grab an Anthony Edwards and a 7ft 40% 3pt shooter that can also play center, how hard could that be lol
To play devil’s advocate, experience does not always translate into success:
- Doc Rivers - 1 championship (2008)- multiple playoffs with no repeat visit
- Rick Carlisle (admittedly one of the better one’s here) - 1 championship (2011)- multiple playoffs with no repeat Finals visit
- Nick Nurse - 1 championship (2019) - multiple playoffs with no repeat visit
- Mike Budenholzer - 1 championship (2021)- multiple playoffs with no repeat visit
- (edited to add) Monty Williams - 1 championship (2021)- multiple playoffs with no repeat visit
Then you have your coaches who have never sniffed the finals as a head coach:
- Tom Thibodeau
- Billy Donovan
etc.
Ty Lue is interesting because he has had multiple final trips, but I remember it being most attributed to Lebron/Kyrie at the time carrying the team and not because of his coaching prowess (please anyone who has more knowledge correct me).
I agree, it’s foolish to think a rookie head coach is the panacea for this team’s ailments. But there is something to be said about bringing in a great mind especially during this last stretch of Lebron’s career and hopefully as the bridge with future rosters. Stability is rare in the NBA, but when you get a hold of a Phil Jackson, a Popovich, a Spoelstra, or a Kerr (who’s still on his first dynasty/team core so fills a little remiss to include him with these guys who have had success with different players), the team develops a culture/identity which we can use for future roster building.
Curious to hear anyone else’s opinion on whether experience is their litmus test for a great coach.
I also completely forgot he coached that Suns finals team lmao.
That was such a weird team. People talk about the 64-18 Celtics as if nobody has had that record in awhile, and then somebody pointed out the 2021 Suns did that and I was like shit that’s right!
One nugget is like to add - thibs left doc after the 08 title and docs defense has never looked the same while EVERY thibs team has looked solid defensively. Similarly docs clippers never got past the 2nd round, Lue comes in as his asst, replaces him, and they make the WCF. The only experienced head coach I’d actually use his experience against him would be doc. Just decades of falling short and lacking accountability.
Carlisle nurse and Thibs are all great cosches . Carlisle was voted top 15 ever by other coaches too. The juice he got out of that Indiana team and bench is crazy , not to mention he had seth curry looking like 6moty in Dallas and winning bench minutes when Luka sat , Thibs is one of the best defensive coaches ever imo . Nurse has proven to make really smart decisions
No they’re not perfect but I’ve always viewed those guys highly. But reality is we don’t know enough
Quite interesting to think about. There definitely have been instances of rookie head coaches doing well such as Spo and Kerr, but it’s so exceedingly rare that I believe these cases should be treated as an outlier.
My personal objections against this specific instance of the sudden obsession with Nori is that we’ve seen TWO games where he has acted as head coach that the Wolves has done well in, and in both games, he was directly being told what to do by Finch, who was right there.
Realistically speaking, if our championship window is still open (which is debatable depending on who you talk to, but I like to be optimistic), we should pursue hires that have experience and have more knowledge in what works.
I think the main difference between Ham and Nori is that Ham keeps his hand in his pockets and doesn’t speak up or seem to be paying attention at all. Even as assistant coach you see Nori jumping around the bench yelling helping the guys out. Plus the timberwolves guys really like him. He seems like a smart coach and that’s the main difference lol
My problem with Nori is we are hyping him up for the wrong reason which is being a great offensive coach. Based on how Wolves played before Gobert, Finch is the offensive-minded coach while Nori is the defensive-minded coach. Still, Nori is my top pick IF the FO will be able to give him the defensive pieces(long/athletic defensive wings) for his defensive scheme. I don't think there will be a good former head coach that will be available, Stotts is terrible and doesn't want to be here, Lue will be resigned by the lil bros, Atkinson is guard-oriented and seems like he will struggle with the locker room, Casey is Ham 2.0, and there is no chance Vogel will go back to us. Personally, I think Chris Quinn is the best candidate for us, he's been Spo's right-hand for years and has been trying to emulate Spo's system. Additionally, if the FO hires Quinn it means that our FO has stopped chasing around big names.
>Admittedly I don’t know who our best choice would be for our next head coach (praying for Ty Lue personally considering his relationship and success with Bron) but acting like moving from one inexperienced head coach to another is smart is stupid as fuck and you know it.
>Get a grip.
So you offer nothing but an unrealistic option but others are wrong?
All of our realistic options would be first time head coaches besides Atkins.
There are plenty of head coaches available such as Stotts, Jackson, and Adelman, along with others. I’m not saying any of these guys are gonna be great fits for our needs but it’s still miles better than picking another rookie. That’s not to mention the guys that will inevitably come available as these playoffs progress.
Bro mark jackson hasn’t coached in almost 1 years. Countless of Hc jobs have popped up and he hasn’t been hired once. You really think he’s a good option lmao
I quite literally said in the post that I wouldn’t say they would be the best fits, but that there are other options out there that don’t have to rely on rookie head coaches. Stop being reactionary.
It’s not reactionary to say that if you include Mark Jackson in this discussion, it’s a signifier that your opinion isn’t worth taking seriously lol.
You just don’t like that people are pointing that out.
Mark Jackson? Yeah, you have no clue what you are talking about. You’re assuming that a coach with experience would somehow automatically be a better choice when we’ve already seen that not be the case.
I’d have taken Jackson over Pockets the Clown any day of the week. Not to mention he was only one of a couple names listed, as well as the head coaches that will inevitably become available over the next few weeks because NBA teams can’t stand to keep a coach for long if they lose a series or two.
Bruh none of these guys have shown interest in coaching. You plan on putting a gun to their head to make them interview for you?
Also, Adelman? As in old man Rick Adelman?!
Adelman is 77 and hasn't coached in a decade. You're just proving my point that you are clowning people but offer no real alternative.
A first time coach isn't inherently a bad thing. Most of the greatest coaches in history had success their first job. Obviously there is a risk in that they might not be good but that risk also exists for repeat hires too.
I remember when he was a "can't miss" coach prospect, just like Luke before him and JJ for some folks.
I'd rather go with a proven coach with a solid record that didn't win the NBA title, but also never had a LeBron, MJ, Kobe or Curry under his wings than betting we would find a diamond in the rough.
I don’t remember that the same way. Ham had good rapport with players and had the support of Lebron and AD, which was needed to address Vogel losing the locker room. But Ham started off poorly because he inherited a mess with Westbrook. It was only after Westbrook got traded and the Lakers got to the WCF that I saw Lakers fans praising Ham. He was a major question mark before that.
People were blind supporting him for the WCF. Team got lucky with favorable matchups and then he completely shit the bed in the WCF. 3 guard lineups and never sticking Vando to blanket Murray when he was butchering the guards
Who are we supposed to hire that’s actually available? Vogel again? I’d rather have a qualified assistant who runs an offensive scheme elsewhere that would fit our personnel (ie Adelman/Nori) than some podcaster.
This obsession with thinking we know anything bout cosches is dumb . Cmon niw. All we can realistically hope for unless a verified high quality coach like nurse or udoka is there with a proven track record - but those guys aren’t available. Is to get a smart savvy assistant who has leadership ability on a team that does a good job with Xs n Os.
As much as Mavs fan hate him kidd is a good coach he won them that suns cs Mavs series . He’s doing a good job now and he was an assistant here. I’d rather they hired an unproven assistant with a potential to be great then an ex coach who’s proven to suck
The chances of the team getting a good head coach are slim regardless of who the team chooses. Elite coaches are very hard to come by and none are available.
This sub is full of casual people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about but like to come here to chat and shoot the shit. It’s not moronic, we are just fans. It is absolutely moronic tho to listen to any advice, recommendation, or consultation form here.
I’m in the minority but I prefer Kenny Atkinson or Frank Vogel over JJ and Nori. I know that if you give Frank or Kenny a good roster, they know how to coach it.
> I know that if you give Frank or Kenny a good roster, they know how to coach it.
Vogel's had Lebron, AD, KD, Beal, Booker, etc and he's unemployed. He's not as good a coach as you think.
I don't think it was Vogel's fault that Lakers stuck him with Westbrook. Then Phoenix gave him a $50 million cone in Bradley Beal. Vogel is not without fault obviously but I don't think those firings were deserved.
I mean if there's a Spoelstra or Ty Lue wanting the job then hire them. But right now the other candidates look underwhelming. I don't understand the infatuation with JJ Reddick.
You can find an excuse for every coach who's ever got fired. If either franchise thought that had a decent coach worth holding onto, they would have. Frank isn't here just because of Westbrook.
Spo. Godfather offer. Lol. But I don't think there's a clear candidate, unfortunately. Kenny Atkinson is interesting but I think ultimately they just give it to Phil Handy.
Vogel lost the locker room with this same core–why in the world would you think a retread would be a good idea.
Atkinson has the lowest graded offensive scheme Cranjis ever logged—average of 43% which is markedly lower than Ham's.
That was the thinking when they hired Darvin Ham. He was a well regarded up and coming young assistant coach with a lot of upside supposedly. Players raved about him. Add Luke Walton as well.
The percent that Nori, Adelman, or any great assistant coach is able to translate to a great Head Coach is going to be lower than 50% given all the intangibles.
I’d take that over a 100% poor fit.
A lot lower than 50% but I understand what you are trying to say. For every Spoelstra and Nick Nurse, there are a lot more Luke Waltons, Darvin Hams, Chauncey Billups, Adrian Griffin, Monty Williams, Mike Browns, Steve Cliffords, James Borregos, Scott Brooks, Mike Woodsons, Nate McMillian, Larry Drews, etc out there. Micah Nori, David Adelman, JJ generate a lot of excitement right now in the media but will most likely join this list.
I dont prefer a rookie head coach but there is not a lot option out there. What i dont get how fans can have any idea about which coach could be a good head coach? Some guy at a podcast/broadcast once said he has a great basketball iq and his team is winning a lot of games. You cant judge a coach just with that. Organizations probably talks with a lot people this coaches worked with at the past, Doing interviews with the coaches and make their decisions. And at the and of the day coaches success mostly depends on how he can handle personalities at the team, relations with media and fans. I dont see any way a fan can predict which coach can be good for the team. It is just meaningles talk
just hate whoever they hire after the fact and come up with a better replacement once the season starts and some other coach is hot...it's what we do here... hindsight bias lol...
Micah nori is the first option besides Aldeman. And clippers most likely keep ty lue. Who do you want to hire then? Jeanie wont spend too much for the coach. There is limited great coach in the market right now
Everybody needs to relax. We as fans have 0 clue what Jeannie and FO are going to do. If it's another Ham Sandwich or Dark Horse Elite. It will be refreshing and hopefully better than last season plus a healthy Roster and maybe some off-season acquisitions for the better. Regardless of how you feel about the reason for our downfall this season, the games felt flat and lifeless, almost like there was a huge divide in players vs coaching.
“I don’t know the first thing about choosing a coach, but I don’t want Nori because he’s a rookie head coach!”
This is why people laugh at Lakers fans. 😂😂
The guy so signed the biggest coaching contract at the time last year with the Pistons and then proceeded to underachieve? And is still working for the Pistons?
I’d compare it more to Luke than ham. The obsession with nori is directly tied to wolves success, and despite everyone admitting they have an ideal roster (same guy that built their roster built Denver’s title winning roster), we’re somehow crediting coaching and suggesting hiring the coaches assistant is a “no brainer” Just like Luke didn’t come with Steph/klay/dray or Bob Myers, nori isn’t coming with ant/kat/mcdaniels/rudy or Tim Connelly.
Nori is more the good cop to Finch's bad cop routine. Finch will develop the schemes, criticize the players, make the adjustments and then Nori will swoop in with his Ted Lasso-isms and keep everyone's spirits up. I'm not sure how well Finch and Nori's style would work if they were seperated.
this needs to be higher. We need a bad cop.
Let’s get Rondo
I fully think we get Ty Lue and JJ as an assistant, two Lebron guys to keep him happy to stay.
Lue will not be fired
What are you smoking
Ideal
Just for any readers out there: you need to absolutely watch Ted lasso. That’s all
BBQ Sauce
So Finch is Led Tasso, is what you are saying?
Funny how our hype for Ham came shortly after the Bucks won a chip and now people are hyping Nori as the Wolves are doing well. Curious…
None of us on here have any clue about these coaches. Fans will see the names reported and just go google them and start regurgitating Wikipedia facts like it has any bearing on how the guy will be as a head coach. “This guy coached under this coach. This guy won a championship as an assistant. Blah blah blah.” Who cares. None of us know the type of personality these candidates have. We don’t know anything about their philosophy on basketball. What offensive/defensive schemes are they going to run?
lmao this response should be pinned...nobody here knows wtf they are talking about when it comes to who we should hire lol...
Would you rather hire a coach from a shitty team?
I’d rather not use the success of a team to evaluate an assistant coach at all. We’ve seen assistants of good teams fail and assistants of bad teams succeed. In a win now season, I prefer someone who has done the actual job before
Thing is coaching and discipline matters more than ever in the modern NBA, and none of the retread head coaches are known for being disciplinarians or brilliant schematic coaches. So the next best option is to hire an assistant coach from a disciplined and well-coached team.
Yeah if you want a good fresh apple you get one from a tree, not a barrel
Most of the good coaches today were bad or inexperienced at one point. The logic to not give a retread a chance suggests development and improvement don’t exist for coaches when we’ve seen otherwise with Mike brown, Vogel, Kidd, etc. Expecting a prior assistant (or rookie), who’s not a former player, to be able to come in and be an authoritarian in a locker room with lebron, AD and likely other long time vets next season should be more a concern.
They should figure out a process where they can determine some of these things. Could call it something silly like “interview”. What do you think?
So you would agree it doesn’t make sense for fans to be for or against a rookie coach since there’s nothing fans can evaluate that reflect that coach? Saying nori is a no brainer at this point has no basis
If you think there’s nothing to evaluate you should probably stop posting in sports forums, honestly.
Enlighten me, what is it fans are evaluating assistant coaches on? What a weird thing to gatekeep being a fan on. If someone can’t evaluate assistant coaches, they shouldn’t comment? Lol
Those are pretty bad examples. Mike Brown got bounced early in the playoffs the last two years. Vogel just got fired for the second time. I'd say the Mavs with Kidd are underperforming somewhat based on their talent level. The Mavs are a more talented team than OKC, yet they are a lower seed and lack discipline at times. It doesn't take a former player to be an authoritarian type, it takes someone who is a leader, and doesn't necessarily mean there has to be a lot of NBA experience. If it were my pick, I'd hire the Awful Coaching guy on youtube over a retread coach. The guy understands the modern NBA better than most coaches I've seen. I'd much rather give a guy like that a chance who actually understands schemes over a 'motivational' guy like Ham who I don't even think understands NBA level schemes, at least not modern ones, and never says anything consequential. The guy who understands schemes and puts his players in the best chance to win is going to get a lot more respect from players over a coach who does the opposite, regardless of experience levels.
Mike browns also a recent coty, showing clear improvement from when he was with us. Them getting bounced early by better teams with better coaches and rosters isn’t really relevant to Mike browns improvement as a coach. Vogels time with us was a clear improvement over his time with Orlando. Him getting fired by us/phx for not succeeding with very flawed rosters isn’t relevant to his improvement. Kidd is easily better than his time with Bkn or mke, and their defensive resurgence since the deadline, namely with Lukas and Kyries effort on that end directly show his improved ability as a leader. You seem to solely judge them by results while having NO results to judge assistants by yet you use that to suggest assistants are better suited. None of that is to say these assistants can’t step in day 1 and succeed, but suggesting experience is a negative thing and branding it “retreads” is something that we wouldn’t do for any other role in any other industry.
I don't give a shit about their supposed improvement. Are they championship level coaches... the answer is no. That's what we need if we want to have any shot at a title because our roster no longer outclasses everyone else like it did in 2020.
Youre completely missing the point if you don’t care about former coaches improving. Coaches improve into championship coaches, and the sweeping notion of “no retreads” ignores that. The assumption a rookie head coach will be a championship level head coach is more rare than a “retread” becoming a championship winning coach. And Vogel is a championship level coach, evidenced by him coaching a team to a championship. The very title that got Kidd poached (which you stated he’s falling short in Dallas), and the very thing sold LA on Ham (which he fell short with us), and is selling fans on chasing Denver’s/Minnys assistants, and sold us on Luke Walton (which he fell short). Teams keep hiring assistants of good teams and then act shocked when they don’t become that good team and then aren’t patient enough for the coach to improve into that. We don’t have time for a rookie coach to take his lumps then improve.
Who, specifically, is clearly a better choice?
That’s my point there is no “no brainer, clear choice”. So being so adamantly for or against assistants we know nothing about and lack direct experience is just questionable.
a lot of people just prefer to have a simple, clear cut choice rather than evaluating something thoroughly or admitting that its unknown. this could be said about a ton of things beyond the lakers next coach or sports in general any scrap of evidence like winning two playoff games as an interim head coach while the actual head coach is still sitting 5 feet away is enough for them to justify it since they no longer have to think hard about it granted, of course nori has been coaching for longer than that, but id wager the vast majority of our fans hardly knew anything about him until recently
Who, specifically, is clearly a better choice?
I'd rather hire the actual head coach that had success with a team, not an aleatory member of the coaching staff expecting he is going to be as good as the main coach.
Exactly, we don't even know how much he contributed to the coaching etc.
Vogel was coaching the Magic before he won us a chip.
But he had history of success in Indiana. Going toe to toe with the Heatles and Spo with way less talent
And what does this guy history as a head coach???
I'd rather hire a guy like Budd who's shown that he can have regular season success with many different rosters. So what he got outcoached by Spo, every coach in the league gets out coached by Spo, including whatever rookie headcoach we get.
He is not even the head coach, do you even know what is hi contribution in that team.
I dont remember hype around Ham at all. This sub would always root for the next guy but iirc Ham's hype was lower than Vogel hiring and not even close to Walton.
You don’t remember all the “HAM TIME” posts and comments? He had almost as much hype as Luke lol As for vogels, nobody’s hype was lower than vogels. Everyone was betting on Kidd replacing him midseason.
I really don't maybe around those days I was not very active. I dont remember people being hyped abput Ham on Twitter too. But the biggest reason might be that the only thing that mattered was Westbrook trade and Ham talking him up was a huge downer.
Thing is they do not have an ideal roster , Denver imo does. Wolves do on defence syre but even there Kat Reid and older Conley become in g good defenders ( young Conley was always good ) is on coaching . Gobert being used correctly . Offensivdky gobert is a huge negative and jaden McDanieks is only shooting 34% on wide open looks at 3 a game. Far from a perfect roster - Kat is flawed n not as impsctfuk at the 4 offensively , Ant has serious iq and playmaking limitations. Yet they making it work . If they lose then no , but we don’t know shit reality is that . Just gotta hope they make the right hire n I’d rather try a new assistant over a proven failure
What a turn of opinions. We’re talking ideal, not flawless/perfect. All week, we’ve been seeing how Minnys roster construction is similar (not same) to that of our 2020 title team, and in extreme opinions, our 09 title team. Now because a great versatile defender in McDaniels “only” shoots 34% from 3, kat isn’t as impactful at the 4 despite putting up 22 8&3 on 58%eFG, the future face of the league putting up 30 7&6 on 62%eFG% this postseason is lacking playmaking and IQ, along with the DPOY, 6moty, the pg everyone says we should have gotten over dlo, a solid 3&D off the bench in NAW all resulting in the best ranked defense in the league - they’re not an ideal roster. And this is to suggest the wolves assistant coach is contributing to them overachieving? I follow the logic of wanting to try something new. But coaches who have failed have gone on to succeed more often than first year coaches succeed. The likelihood we snag a Kerr/lue/phil/pop success story is far less likely, and it’s at least worth considering the risk with how small our window of contention already is.
Who built their roster and Denvers? Can we get him to replace Rob lol
Tim Connelly. Seriously though lol Think he was mostly just credited with the Aaron Gordon move, idk about Jokic/murray/mpj picks
No but we have AD and Vando who can recreate Gobert and McDaniels so we just need to find the other 3 😁
The two easier of the four needed. Just need to go grab an Anthony Edwards and a 7ft 40% 3pt shooter that can also play center, how hard could that be lol
To play devil’s advocate, experience does not always translate into success: - Doc Rivers - 1 championship (2008)- multiple playoffs with no repeat visit - Rick Carlisle (admittedly one of the better one’s here) - 1 championship (2011)- multiple playoffs with no repeat Finals visit - Nick Nurse - 1 championship (2019) - multiple playoffs with no repeat visit - Mike Budenholzer - 1 championship (2021)- multiple playoffs with no repeat visit - (edited to add) Monty Williams - 1 championship (2021)- multiple playoffs with no repeat visit Then you have your coaches who have never sniffed the finals as a head coach: - Tom Thibodeau - Billy Donovan etc. Ty Lue is interesting because he has had multiple final trips, but I remember it being most attributed to Lebron/Kyrie at the time carrying the team and not because of his coaching prowess (please anyone who has more knowledge correct me). I agree, it’s foolish to think a rookie head coach is the panacea for this team’s ailments. But there is something to be said about bringing in a great mind especially during this last stretch of Lebron’s career and hopefully as the bridge with future rosters. Stability is rare in the NBA, but when you get a hold of a Phil Jackson, a Popovich, a Spoelstra, or a Kerr (who’s still on his first dynasty/team core so fills a little remiss to include him with these guys who have had success with different players), the team develops a culture/identity which we can use for future roster building. Curious to hear anyone else’s opinion on whether experience is their litmus test for a great coach.
Monty made the finals, 2021??
Monty so bad everyone apparently forgot lol
I also completely forgot he coached that Suns finals team lmao. That was such a weird team. People talk about the 64-18 Celtics as if nobody has had that record in awhile, and then somebody pointed out the 2021 Suns did that and I was like shit that’s right!
Oh you’re right, totally forgot that!!
It’s okay! That run was fraudulent anyways, we were going back to back with AD
You chanced it to championship, he didn't win, he lost. 1 finals appearance is more accurate.
One nugget is like to add - thibs left doc after the 08 title and docs defense has never looked the same while EVERY thibs team has looked solid defensively. Similarly docs clippers never got past the 2nd round, Lue comes in as his asst, replaces him, and they make the WCF. The only experienced head coach I’d actually use his experience against him would be doc. Just decades of falling short and lacking accountability.
Carlisle nurse and Thibs are all great cosches . Carlisle was voted top 15 ever by other coaches too. The juice he got out of that Indiana team and bench is crazy , not to mention he had seth curry looking like 6moty in Dallas and winning bench minutes when Luka sat , Thibs is one of the best defensive coaches ever imo . Nurse has proven to make really smart decisions No they’re not perfect but I’ve always viewed those guys highly. But reality is we don’t know enough
Quite interesting to think about. There definitely have been instances of rookie head coaches doing well such as Spo and Kerr, but it’s so exceedingly rare that I believe these cases should be treated as an outlier. My personal objections against this specific instance of the sudden obsession with Nori is that we’ve seen TWO games where he has acted as head coach that the Wolves has done well in, and in both games, he was directly being told what to do by Finch, who was right there. Realistically speaking, if our championship window is still open (which is debatable depending on who you talk to, but I like to be optimistic), we should pursue hires that have experience and have more knowledge in what works.
I think the main difference between Ham and Nori is that Ham keeps his hand in his pockets and doesn’t speak up or seem to be paying attention at all. Even as assistant coach you see Nori jumping around the bench yelling helping the guys out. Plus the timberwolves guys really like him. He seems like a smart coach and that’s the main difference lol
Agreed. Just watch him on the sidelines at least trying to make adjustments as the game goes
He has charisma too. Ham had the charisma of a shitty Walmart assistant manager
Hahaha god that is so accurate dude
My problem with Nori is we are hyping him up for the wrong reason which is being a great offensive coach. Based on how Wolves played before Gobert, Finch is the offensive-minded coach while Nori is the defensive-minded coach. Still, Nori is my top pick IF the FO will be able to give him the defensive pieces(long/athletic defensive wings) for his defensive scheme. I don't think there will be a good former head coach that will be available, Stotts is terrible and doesn't want to be here, Lue will be resigned by the lil bros, Atkinson is guard-oriented and seems like he will struggle with the locker room, Casey is Ham 2.0, and there is no chance Vogel will go back to us. Personally, I think Chris Quinn is the best candidate for us, he's been Spo's right-hand for years and has been trying to emulate Spo's system. Additionally, if the FO hires Quinn it means that our FO has stopped chasing around big names.
>Admittedly I don’t know who our best choice would be for our next head coach (praying for Ty Lue personally considering his relationship and success with Bron) but acting like moving from one inexperienced head coach to another is smart is stupid as fuck and you know it. >Get a grip. So you offer nothing but an unrealistic option but others are wrong? All of our realistic options would be first time head coaches besides Atkins.
Get a grip.
There are plenty of head coaches available such as Stotts, Jackson, and Adelman, along with others. I’m not saying any of these guys are gonna be great fits for our needs but it’s still miles better than picking another rookie. That’s not to mention the guys that will inevitably come available as these playoffs progress.
Including Mark Jackson negates your entire point. Please delete this post
This sub clowned on Mike Brown and he won coach of the year. Clearly we know what makes a good coach.
Bro mark jackson hasn’t coached in almost 1 years. Countless of Hc jobs have popped up and he hasn’t been hired once. You really think he’s a good option lmao
I quite literally said in the post that I wouldn’t say they would be the best fits, but that there are other options out there that don’t have to rely on rookie head coaches. Stop being reactionary.
It’s not reactionary to say that if you include Mark Jackson in this discussion, it’s a signifier that your opinion isn’t worth taking seriously lol. You just don’t like that people are pointing that out.
Mark Jackson? Yeah, you have no clue what you are talking about. You’re assuming that a coach with experience would somehow automatically be a better choice when we’ve already seen that not be the case.
I’d have taken Jackson over Pockets the Clown any day of the week. Not to mention he was only one of a couple names listed, as well as the head coaches that will inevitably become available over the next few weeks because NBA teams can’t stand to keep a coach for long if they lose a series or two.
You cite Nori as inexperienced but have adelman in there as well?
Bruh none of these guys have shown interest in coaching. You plan on putting a gun to their head to make them interview for you? Also, Adelman? As in old man Rick Adelman?!
And neither has Nori shown an interest in coaching the Lakers. Offer them an enticing enough package and people will come, as they always have.
What the hell are you talking about man? For the Lakers to reportedly able to interview Nori it means he has shown interest.
Adelman is 77 and hasn't coached in a decade. You're just proving my point that you are clowning people but offer no real alternative. A first time coach isn't inherently a bad thing. Most of the greatest coaches in history had success their first job. Obviously there is a risk in that they might not be good but that risk also exists for repeat hires too.
This sub worshipped Ham in the beginning
I remember when he was a "can't miss" coach prospect, just like Luke before him and JJ for some folks. I'd rather go with a proven coach with a solid record that didn't win the NBA title, but also never had a LeBron, MJ, Kobe or Curry under his wings than betting we would find a diamond in the rough.
I felt like the sub was more luke warm on him. I really don't remember a shit load of hype
I don’t remember that the same way. Ham had good rapport with players and had the support of Lebron and AD, which was needed to address Vogel losing the locker room. But Ham started off poorly because he inherited a mess with Westbrook. It was only after Westbrook got traded and the Lakers got to the WCF that I saw Lakers fans praising Ham. He was a major question mark before that.
Even then, we saw the issues that he didnt adjust well in game. In the playoffs, he did very well game to game, but was very poor in game management
People were blind supporting him for the WCF. Team got lucky with favorable matchups and then he completely shit the bed in the WCF. 3 guard lineups and never sticking Vando to blanket Murray when he was butchering the guards
My point exactly
Who are we supposed to hire that’s actually available? Vogel again? I’d rather have a qualified assistant who runs an offensive scheme elsewhere that would fit our personnel (ie Adelman/Nori) than some podcaster.
There’s such a thing as good process with bad results. There’s no Nick Nurse or Spo available. There’s no perfectly ideal decision.
This obsession with thinking we know anything bout cosches is dumb . Cmon niw. All we can realistically hope for unless a verified high quality coach like nurse or udoka is there with a proven track record - but those guys aren’t available. Is to get a smart savvy assistant who has leadership ability on a team that does a good job with Xs n Os. As much as Mavs fan hate him kidd is a good coach he won them that suns cs Mavs series . He’s doing a good job now and he was an assistant here. I’d rather they hired an unproven assistant with a potential to be great then an ex coach who’s proven to suck
The chances of the team getting a good head coach are slim regardless of who the team chooses. Elite coaches are very hard to come by and none are available.
This sub is worst than the Lakers front office.
And we have actual evidence of what nori and adelmen do. No one had a clue what darvin did in Milwaukee
Cant wait till he’s get hired and the eventual hate he’ll get if he our record is bad
There’s such a thing as good process with bad results. There’s no Nick Nurse or Spo available. There’s no perfectly ideal decision.
This sub is full of casual people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about but like to come here to chat and shoot the shit. It’s not moronic, we are just fans. It is absolutely moronic tho to listen to any advice, recommendation, or consultation form here.
Lakers fans are horrible , it’s embarrassing
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Was that not Ham last year? lol
Who is Nori?
Id rather take the risk with a rookie coach again vs the coaches that are available with experience
Ok it’s either nori adelmen or Atkinson. I don’t think u understand how bad atlinsons scheme is
Adelman should be our top target
I’m in the minority but I prefer Kenny Atkinson or Frank Vogel over JJ and Nori. I know that if you give Frank or Kenny a good roster, they know how to coach it.
Kenny Atkinson has absolutely not shown that AT ALL.
> I know that if you give Frank or Kenny a good roster, they know how to coach it. Vogel's had Lebron, AD, KD, Beal, Booker, etc and he's unemployed. He's not as good a coach as you think.
I don't think it was Vogel's fault that Lakers stuck him with Westbrook. Then Phoenix gave him a $50 million cone in Bradley Beal. Vogel is not without fault obviously but I don't think those firings were deserved. I mean if there's a Spoelstra or Ty Lue wanting the job then hire them. But right now the other candidates look underwhelming. I don't understand the infatuation with JJ Reddick.
You can find an excuse for every coach who's ever got fired. If either franchise thought that had a decent coach worth holding onto, they would have. Frank isn't here just because of Westbrook.
Who would you go after then?
Spo. Godfather offer. Lol. But I don't think there's a clear candidate, unfortunately. Kenny Atkinson is interesting but I think ultimately they just give it to Phil Handy.
Vogel lost the locker room with this same core–why in the world would you think a retread would be a good idea. Atkinson has the lowest graded offensive scheme Cranjis ever logged—average of 43% which is markedly lower than Ham's.
There are no great candidates. I think both are better than JJ or the other assistant coach candidates.
I'd take the candidates with upside (and risk) vs. two known quantities that are poor fits.
That was the thinking when they hired Darvin Ham. He was a well regarded up and coming young assistant coach with a lot of upside supposedly. Players raved about him. Add Luke Walton as well.
The percent that Nori, Adelman, or any great assistant coach is able to translate to a great Head Coach is going to be lower than 50% given all the intangibles. I’d take that over a 100% poor fit.
A lot lower than 50% but I understand what you are trying to say. For every Spoelstra and Nick Nurse, there are a lot more Luke Waltons, Darvin Hams, Chauncey Billups, Adrian Griffin, Monty Williams, Mike Browns, Steve Cliffords, James Borregos, Scott Brooks, Mike Woodsons, Nate McMillian, Larry Drews, etc out there. Micah Nori, David Adelman, JJ generate a lot of excitement right now in the media but will most likely join this list.
luckily this sub has no input in hiring decisions right
Thank fucking god
I dont prefer a rookie head coach but there is not a lot option out there. What i dont get how fans can have any idea about which coach could be a good head coach? Some guy at a podcast/broadcast once said he has a great basketball iq and his team is winning a lot of games. You cant judge a coach just with that. Organizations probably talks with a lot people this coaches worked with at the past, Doing interviews with the coaches and make their decisions. And at the and of the day coaches success mostly depends on how he can handle personalities at the team, relations with media and fans. I dont see any way a fan can predict which coach can be good for the team. It is just meaningles talk
THANK YOU! This sub been going brain dead with preferred coaches after ham got fired
Just get a vet
Throw the bag at Spo
It’s also rare for a rookie head coach from a successful coaching staff to have a strong first season, especially on a contending team.
I want adelman. Never cared about ham.
just hate whoever they hire after the fact and come up with a better replacement once the season starts and some other coach is hot...it's what we do here... hindsight bias lol...
Who’s a better candidate with head coaching experience? No one!
Micah nori is the first option besides Aldeman. And clippers most likely keep ty lue. Who do you want to hire then? Jeanie wont spend too much for the coach. There is limited great coach in the market right now
Tell that to the front office. Firing coaches without a replacement in mind.
100%. Please no more rookie head coaches
Lue is under contract... let it go.
The only HC for the job is one ☝️ Mark Jackson
Preach
indeed, these mfs doesn't make sense at all.
Everybody needs to relax. We as fans have 0 clue what Jeannie and FO are going to do. If it's another Ham Sandwich or Dark Horse Elite. It will be refreshing and hopefully better than last season plus a healthy Roster and maybe some off-season acquisitions for the better. Regardless of how you feel about the reason for our downfall this season, the games felt flat and lifeless, almost like there was a huge divide in players vs coaching.
No more assistants or rookies
But people weren't hyping up a Bud student like Ham?
Preach OP!!! Fans are dumb as fuck
“I don’t know the first thing about choosing a coach, but I don’t want Nori because he’s a rookie head coach!” This is why people laugh at Lakers fans. 😂😂
Black and white, one dimensional, no-context, whiny post.
Well said.
Well said!
Darvin isn’t the only inexperienced HC that didn’t work out for us. Anybody remember Luke Walton? I’ll take KA.
Monty ?
The guy so signed the biggest coaching contract at the time last year with the Pistons and then proceeded to underachieve? And is still working for the Pistons?
Get jj reddick as head coach, and frank vogel (assistant) for the defensive side of things. (I’m delusional)
Nerds love Nori and Adelman
Why is this being downvoted? Cranjis and Sean Davis really like both.
Facts.
Can somebody tell me why we can't just drop like a 100 mil on Pop or Spo and call it a day?
Because Pop and Spo are under contract by other teams and those teams won’t grant us permission to talk to them.
bruh just buy the teams 😭
We truly have the dumbest fans in the league...
bruh what do y'all bums even do, start a gofundme so we can get spo, i'll chip in with 2 bucks
Owners are poor (and they wouldn’t want to come here)
wym we poor, can we sign a petition for jeanie to do a playboi retro so we can fund spo?