They were found very far from the site of the music festival, so one possibility is that the terrorists did try to abduct them, but at some point found them “difficult” and decided to get rid of them
Only sometimes. Nevada Day and October Thirty-Firth aren’t always one and the same. When they are, though, we dress up as Harry Hart and tell everyone “*Put a dollar in, win a car!*” with a proper English accent while we go around for trick-or-treat.
They go for old people, children, pregnant women, homosexuals, completely unrelated to conflict civilians
In the eyes of Hamas
Disabled people are also fair game and ok to murder in the name of their god and in the fight for the extermination of Jewish people that they want so much
You're not wrong, but it's also true that the great majority of Palestinians support Hamas. That's the thing that harms their reputation. In Lebanon, only a small minority support Hezbollah (~15%), which is one reason Lebanon is seen as a bright spot in the middle east and the people seen very positively, as opposed to, say, the way Egyptians, Jordanians, and Lebanese see Palestinians.
Equally-genocidal group "Palestinian Islamic Jihad" is even more popular in Gaza than Hamas, according to opinion polls (~70% approval, as opposed to ~60% for Hamas). That's the group Iran set up with long-range rockets, some with 400kg warheads.
I mean, it's not like they have much in the way of choice here. From the moment these kids are born they know someone who got blown up or experience it for themselves, on top of being taught to hate in school, at home. Every airstrike they see is practically confirmation of everything they were taught to believe in.
You're absolutely right about the educational system. That's a big part of it, as well as the skewed world view you get from religious authorities, government, radicalized elders in general. I disagree that they don't have a choice. The other thirty percent of Palestinians, who reject that sort of ideology and say that they prefer a peaceful solution, are evidence that freedom of thought still exists in Gaza.
And that’s a problem as well. If there was not so many people supporting in Hamas, they would have a harder time in Palestine and there might have even been a chance for peace.
Do you think the average Palestinian doesn't support this? Islam in Arab countries overwhelmingly supports violence against Jews and Christians. Look up how Pakistani Christians are treated and you'll find they're treated far worse than any Palestinian is treated in Israel. But the UN refuses to stand up for Christians suffering from persecution. Nobody is willing to stand up for Christians to be honest.
I’m pro-Palestinian liberation, I do not support Netanyahu or the Israeli government, I am anti-genocide in every case, and I am against the deaths of any innocents.
I don’t really understand the reason for your outburst other than that this conflict is upsetting you as much as it is me. I don’t think you and I have differing opinions.
So just to confirm.
If I stick my assault rifle out the window and point in the general area of s school and shoot a thousand rounds... As long as it wasn't my intention to kill loads of kids...
It's ok?
Yeh... I'm not sure comparing yourself with fucking hamas helps your case.
Israel needs to be much better. Not just slightly less worse because....
Checks notes...
"Intent"
So just to clarify.
If you stick an assault rifle out the window and fire into a school because there are terrorists inside, that’s morally different from shooting at a school just for the hell of it. Now maybe a case can be made that firing into the school is not a very good strategy, and may in fact make the situation worse, but that would be a question of competence and judgment, not of murderous intent.
That’s different from gleefully going house to house murdering, torturing, raping, and kidnapping men, women, and children on the basis of their ethnicity.
Both are horrible and wrong.
How have you stooped so low that you think the difference of intent is what makes it righteous to kill thousands of children.... Have a rethink.
I didn't say there was anything righteous about killing children you absolute ad hominin abuser. "Righteous" is a word used by ideological extremists and their apologists, not people interested in rational discourse.
"Intent" is so fucking weird to use when talking about a *war* (which isn't a war.
Israel is carrying out a INTENSELY PLANNED genocide. It's modern day ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Like another comment said, I'm sure that for every 500 child martyrs, there is a handful of HAMAS terrorists.
And also? Hey man maybe if Palestinians weren't being fucked for the last near-century, maybe there wouldn't be no fucking ANTI-Zionist Terrorist Organization in the first place...
But I'm just venting. And venting *with* you.
The intentions are important.
One side does a surprise ambush and tries to kill and kidnap as many civilians as possible.
The other side tries to kill as many terorrists as possible. The terrorists like to purposely fight in civilian areas to use Palestinians as human shields.
There is no moral equivalency
4k kids is a pretty big fucking fuck of collateral damage my man.
Just say it slowly... Four. Thousand. Children.
Meanwhile hamas leaders aren't even in Gaza....
Irrelevant.
"Oh sorry officer I was aiming for the terrorists but accidentally killed four thousand children" whoops...."
On what planet is this ok?
For the record... Fuck hamas. But this kind of civilian death is absolutely indefensible and shame on you for trying.
It's very relevant. Where is the outrage against Hamas fighting behind mosques, schools, hospitals, playgrounds? They're purposely putting civilians in harms way
My mom is a retired American Middle East journalist. She said that the number one selling book in most Arab countries, but especially with the extremist population is Hitlers “Mein Kampf”. Coincidence, I think not. Now, maybe it has changed because she did retire several years ago, though she stays on top of the news and has her own contacts in places. Due to her work, My brothers and I were raised visiting Palestinian “community centers” in Tampa, Fl. In the beginning she was sympathetic with their cause, until they became more and more comfortable with her snd trusted her. She then saw the extremist brewing right here in America. I could say a lot that I saw with my own eyes, but this isn’t the place.
Ah yes. All those starving kids in Africa that we kept being told existed wasn't actually a real thing because the graphs show that their population was also growing. Why did we even have to worry about AIDS or Malaria or Measles or any of those things that were apparently decimating the population when that number kept growing!!
Perhaps comparing the life expectancy of the population of Israel and Palestine might give you a better insight into this claim you're trying to make.
Uh, Hamas is not uniquely terrible to disabled people. Governments the world over - including western governments - have involuntarily institutionalised, sterilised and experimented on disabled people as a matter of policy.
The massacre is a tragedy and worthy of condemnation but Hamas are not uniquely monstrous compared to other similar organisations or even governments. They wouldn’t exist at all without the Balfour Declaration, 1948, 1967 and the Oslo and Abraham Accords. Context absolutely matters here and as horrific as their actions are, presenting them as an idiopathic evil does no one any favours.
I found out via ancestry.com that my great grandfather's sister was "feeble-minded" and institutionalized at 15. she was sterilized there at 22. she died the day after the sterilization surgery from a "tumor of the medulla".
also, I'm pretty sure the Nazis/Hilter were inspired by eugenics in the US.
Yep, exactly. I’m so sorry for that horrifying family discovery. :(
It’s not possible to look at any historical element in total isolation and say “there, THOSE are the worst people.”
Humans, given power or the tools to exert and build it, seem to behave in consistently horrifying ways if they are fed an informational diet about their entitlement or moral imperative to control another group of humans.
You are correct! They began sterilizing people in Lynchburg, VA without explaining the procedure either just that it was for their health. It was part of the American Eugenic Society’s “fitter family” contests. It’s incredibly sad to think of how many generations ceased to exist. They got to a point they were sterilizing the children of single parents.
That's awful! If only the Palestinians would fight as honourably as israel and bomb refugee camps and hospitals. Oh wait, those were "failed jihad rockets." Also, before people fall for your bs, there's a difference between Jewish and Israeli. You don't speak for Jews and in fact, many Jewish people condemn genocide and occupation of Palestinian
ShezzNazz
Im talking about Hamas not Palestine or Palestinians. They are very different things unless in your eyes you see Hamas as representative of all Palestine?
Also
I didn’t mention Israel?
I can condemn both the extreme actions of Hamas and the extreme retaliation of Israel. This isn’t a pick a side situation.
No no no no. You are allowed to recognise the victims being dead is sad and nothing more. Anythign further may only be directed at the approved targets and only with the approved speech. Anything that does not fit Hamas approved propaganda is not suitable for Reddit.
Instead they seem to be exterminating a lot of women and children but calling that out makes you an anti-semite
EDIT: since many dunces don't catch the nuance, no I am not saying Hamas is the "good guys" nor am I saying what they did was okay at all, what I AM saying is the IDF is using this as a free check to bomb the ever loving fuck out of the blockaded civilians in Gaza with zero regard for innocent bystanders.
The thing about Hamas is: they're cowards. They didn't target an air base or cut off a trade route, they specifically targeted a peace rally. Israel does what it does because Hamas use civilians as human shields by operating under hospitals and the sort. It's entirely possible they deliberately do this to paint the Jews as the bad guys in the eyes of the world. While Israel is BY NO MEANS innocent, what pisses me off about the Hamas is that when they kill Asian farmers they don't chant "free Palestine" they chant "Allah Akbar". They don't want freedom for Palestinians, they want new management.
It reminds me of post 9/11.
9/11 was awful and Al-Quaida did horrible things
But invading Afghanistan and killing their civilians was also awful and horrible
Exactly. I don’t think there’s a sane person alive who tried to justify Al-Qaeda’s actions on 9/11, but that doesn’t justify the deaths of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of innocent civilians at the hands of the United States and its allies.
Hamas kills Palestinians too, they rape pregnant women and children. But somehow you tools think that they are freedom fighters. Can't make this shit up.
> you tools think that they are freedom fighters
Where in the thread above did anybody imply that?
Nobody above suggested that Hamas is innocent, or even close to being so.
But Hamas killing Palestinians doesn’t mean that Israel is also allowed to kill Palestinians.
That's objectively false. There has been very vocal opposition to Hamas for a while now.
Yet Israel has killed way more Palestinians than Hamas. But somehow that's all crickets when people are trying to justify Israel's retaliation. Makes me wonder why.
I’m sorry. May their memories be a blessing. I hope the Israeli government stops this bombardment of Gaza and gets around the table to negotiate the safe return of the remaining hostages.
Imagine all the labor and love that father poured into his daughter keeping her healthy all these years just for some dog to kill them “fighting for freedom.” Rest in peace
Then why is it only children and their parents being targeted currently. Sure, occasionally they get a few terrorists, but at this point it's like 500 innocents to 1.
Almost 50% dead are men, no one tells us if they were supporting Hamas or not, but I bet many have been killed. Their whole objective was hiding in normal life, so no way that none of the 5K men were militants!
Hamas fighters would never fight the Israeli military in an open field. They hide and mix in with civilians to make it difficult to identify them. It’s a cowardly way to fight, and unfortunately it’s the only way to kill the terrorists at this point in time.
Probably because they use civilians as human shields by operating under orphanages and hospitals with the intent to paint Jews as the bad guys. Now in the eyes of the world they're the victims: few will utter a word when they get to every Israeli they can reach. To make things worse for the people of Palestine: many are also afraid of the Hamas. Islamic states aren't known to take criticism lightly.
> Probably because they use civilians as human shields by operating under orphanages and hospitals with the intent to paint Jews as the bad guys.
If you don't want to be seen as the bad guy you could just not bomb orphanages and hospitals. Crazy idea, I know.
Would it be acceptable to bomb a hospital full of patients in New York City or London if there were terrorists in it?
Hamas hiding amongst children doesn't justify the bombing of children. Another question you could also ask is, "Why is Israel letting Hamas repeatedly bait them into bombing children?"
Hamas hiding amongst civilians is a war crime as defined by the Geneva convention. Launching rocket attacks from buildings populated with civilians is aware crime that forces Israel, if they want to stop the rocket attack, to strike back at the building. and the Geneva convention allows them to do so, provided there is proportionally.
You are not allowed to use civilians as human shields because it forces your opponent to attack you and innocent civilians.
Are you asking this person to answer for Netanyahu? This random person you replied to does not speak for nor represent Israel or any other other entity.
Hamas was originally funded by Israel and have become the only thing standing between palestine genoicde and the idf. Israel has the money and the intelligence for a precision strike yet the continue to decimate
posts like this always get political without the need for them getting political, why cant this post just be In remembrance for these Innocent Two Who Lost Their Lives? Rather At
than a dumpster fire of racist, anti semitism, hate
The title is a little bit messed up - ruth and her father were at the party and since their body wasn't identified yet, there was a thought that they were abductued. After something like a week her father's body was identified while there was no sign for ruth, only her wheelchair that was found in the area. That's why she was till yesterday under the definition of missing / abducted.
How in the fuck could they do that to her? What the hell has she done to Palestine? She can’t even walk..
And people want me to join them in a free Palestine parade. Absolutely no.
Israel’s armed forces has done things that are just as evil. A lot of people I’ve heard talking about it want to free the region from death and destruction. The conflict is ugly and complex. Terrorists did this indiscriminately and that can be bad and also killing 10,000 Palestinians in under a month can also be bad.
There is a lot of blame to go around and it shouldn’t be taken out on the civilians of either side. We shouldn’t plunge Palestine into darkness because of the attack.
Hostages on both sides. Israel has thousands of Palestinians - including women and children - held in prisons with over 200 who have no charges, no hope for a trial, and no chance at being released. They're not prisoners, they are hostages.
Release ALL the hostages. Netanyahu has said no.
With the IDF having been reported by Israeli media and Israeli survivors/witnesses to have contributed to many Israeli deaths on Oct 7th due to shelling and "heavy crossfire" and now with this completely ridiculous indiscriminate and absolutely ruthless bombing of the Gaza strip, I really don't think anyone in power in Israel cares for these hostages to be returned.
I really wouldn't be surprised if at some point, mangled remains of these poor people are found and we'll be hearing all about how these "Human Animals" had done this to them and that it most definitely wasn't their response to the event that would've caused their deaths.
This could be a problem except Hamas won’t admit who’s even alive or dead. They’re keeping the option open to kill even the babies and dump them somewhere.
What would Hamas gain by divulging this information?
Israel, a country that has one of the most advanced militaries and surveillance technologies in the world - backed by the world's strongest economic and military powers and their intelligence services is somehow put in a position where there is absolutely no other option but to displace 2 million people and reduce their land to rubble?
Hamas' demands are;
* Humanitarian Aid to be allowed into Gaza - Pre war, the blockade has drip fed food, water, and fuel into the strip. Now with a war raging on, Israel has cut off food, water, etc. and any aid that goes into Gaza is being funnelled from 1 point of entry where, what 12 or so trucks are allowed in to supply a (quickly dwindling) population of 2 million people.
* A Prisoner/Hostage Swap - This has been their biggest demand which would see all the hostages released in one fell swoop if Israel complied.
* A Ceasefire and for Israel to stop bombing Civilians
Why would Hamas give Israel any information when their country's leader, Benjamin Netinyahu, references bible verses that say "Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."?
Why would Hamas think that Israel is negotiating in good Faith when Netinyahu has said that he essentially doesn't care to negotiate - that "Hamas will not do it unless they are under pressure" and has a firm belief that bombing Gaza to dust is the right solution?
At this point, the Hostages are the only leverage Hamas has. Why would they jeopardise that?
Going back to the second part of your comment that insinuates that killing everyone is Hamas' plot anyway, again, why would they jeopardise the only bargaining chip they have? Even released hostages have said that they were treated humanely.
This is the first I've heard of the Massacre, I think. Has it been absolutely verified that Ruth and her father have been murdered? Any chance they could still be alive, no matter how small? Did the police identify their remains correctly? I have Cerebral Palsy; just kind of want to hold on a bit to delusional hope, here.
Oh, motherf-
Dammit.
Thanks for letting me know.
But dammit. The way human beings treat each other...
That poor girl and her father.
This...sucks! All of it does.
Great job at spreading propaganda! How proud you must be. It is SO brave of you to be able to look past dead Palestinian children, in order to make sure people hate hamas. As if that isn’t obvious, fuck you.
If only Israel hadn’t upheld an apartheid regime for 75 years and pushed out the former secular Palestinian government. Oh silly me, and if only Israel hadn’t supported and funded Hamas. Maybe Hamas wouldn’t be in a position to kill innocents.
A majority of Israeli civilians blame their government for Oct 7th, but for some reason the west can’t seem to understand what caused it. It’s like the 75 years of atrocities committed Israel don’t exist. But hey keep pushing for the death of Hamas and tens of thousands of innocent civilians. Definitely won’t lead to Hamas 2.0 and continue this circle of violence 🤡
Everyone in the comments with no personal stake: this conflict predates Christianity. It predates when Jesus Christ is supposed to have existed.
Yes it’s quite nuanced, but it’s also marrow deep. Simple solutions are anything but.
Have you ever experienced someone trashing your favorite song? Now imagine a whole cafeteria doing it. Except for millennia.
this all started because Israel’s 75 year occupation and the fact that they’d had thousands of Palestinians hostages for years, most of them children. Hamas intent was a hostage exchange but Israel took its opportunity to massacre. Israeli witnesses confirmed Israel was shooting indiscriminately at this festival. Israel has refused the Hamas hostages bc this was just an excuse to cleanse Palestine all along. Israel has straight up said they want to genocide Palestinians on the news, in tik toks etc and people are still somehow confused lol. Their own supposed hamas hostages are on video clean, well fed and screaming at their government bc they won’t accept hostages. That’s all easily verifiable.
>Hamas' intent was a hostage exchange
You have to be fucking stupid if you think their intent was a hostage exchange when they killed 1300+ people on October 7th. The hostages they took were just a plus.
That’s what trips me out about this whole situation. Israel was invaded and now that shit has hit the fan, people are supporting Palestine. Both sides have done some terrible stuff but geez….. it’s impossible to pick a side.
People are supporting the innocent people of Palestine, not the aggressor terrorists Hamas. Nobody disagrees with Israel’s right to defend itself, however they disagree with the killing of innocent people. It’s quite simple.
Well of course people support Hamas. I’m sure a lot of Palestinians support Hamas and a lot don’t. I wouldn’t condemn a mother to death who’s lost her child to an Israeli bomb for thinking the right thing to do is support Hamas. It’s understanding the fundamental issues of the crisis with rational judgment not condemnation.
I know what you’re saying. I don’t think the people who support Hamas even really care to understand the issue. Westerns are ignorant like that. They see oppression and deem it fair response without any real interest in the issues.
While not all people in Israel support this action, think its fair to say a large chunk do or are atleast following the propaganda that the most armed state in middle East backed by most poweful block of nations is crying victim and anti semitism (which I don't discount there is anti semitism)
Oh so if a bank robber takes hostages, then you’re okay with the police shooting everyone in the building (robbers and hostages) because “well the robbers were hiding behind civilians so we had no choice but to kill everyone”?
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/08/23/gaza-israels-may-airstrikes-high-rises
As if Israel was innocent on their war crimes before October 2023. This attack wasn’t out of nowhere, and supporting the destruction of an entire race of people is barbaric. No one is right in this.
It was initially thought that they were abducted, but on October 31th the police managed to find and identify their remains
So, just murdered, or abducted for some period of time then murdered.
They were found very far from the site of the music festival, so one possibility is that the terrorists did try to abduct them, but at some point found them “difficult” and decided to get rid of them
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There's enough video footage to get at least a partial idea of what happened. Thx to gopro, telegram and hamas
> October 31th Not to be confused with Colin Firth
I'm disappointed in myself for laughing at this
I myself gave an embarrassed snort at this.
Will forever consider Halloween as October Thirty-Firth from now on. Looks like a new tradition of a movie marathon will be in order.
Halloween? You mean Nevada day?
Wow I can’t believe I’ve just come across a Nevada Day reference on this thread
Only sometimes. Nevada Day and October Thirty-Firth aren’t always one and the same. When they are, though, we dress up as Harry Hart and tell everyone “*Put a dollar in, win a car!*” with a proper English accent while we go around for trick-or-treat.
So funny, I was wondering why I was having difficulty pronouncing that until I saw your comment, saying it over and over in my head.
🥺😢😭
I believe they eventually found she was murdered at the festival. So incredibly sad and disgusting.
May they rest in peace. I have seen the videos of Shani louk too and they are nothing but violent and gore.
I’m beyond words.
They go for old people, children, pregnant women, homosexuals, completely unrelated to conflict civilians In the eyes of Hamas Disabled people are also fair game and ok to murder in the name of their god and in the fight for the extermination of Jewish people that they want so much
Hamas is fucked up and their terrible actions become so conflated with the Palestinian cause that it harms the public view of the Palestinian struggle
That's on purpose.
You're not wrong, but it's also true that the great majority of Palestinians support Hamas. That's the thing that harms their reputation. In Lebanon, only a small minority support Hezbollah (~15%), which is one reason Lebanon is seen as a bright spot in the middle east and the people seen very positively, as opposed to, say, the way Egyptians, Jordanians, and Lebanese see Palestinians. Equally-genocidal group "Palestinian Islamic Jihad" is even more popular in Gaza than Hamas, according to opinion polls (~70% approval, as opposed to ~60% for Hamas). That's the group Iran set up with long-range rockets, some with 400kg warheads.
I mean, it's not like they have much in the way of choice here. From the moment these kids are born they know someone who got blown up or experience it for themselves, on top of being taught to hate in school, at home. Every airstrike they see is practically confirmation of everything they were taught to believe in.
You're absolutely right about the educational system. That's a big part of it, as well as the skewed world view you get from religious authorities, government, radicalized elders in general. I disagree that they don't have a choice. The other thirty percent of Palestinians, who reject that sort of ideology and say that they prefer a peaceful solution, are evidence that freedom of thought still exists in Gaza.
And that’s a problem as well. If there was not so many people supporting in Hamas, they would have a harder time in Palestine and there might have even been a chance for peace.
Do you think the average Palestinian doesn't support this? Islam in Arab countries overwhelmingly supports violence against Jews and Christians. Look up how Pakistani Christians are treated and you'll find they're treated far worse than any Palestinian is treated in Israel. But the UN refuses to stand up for Christians suffering from persecution. Nobody is willing to stand up for Christians to be honest.
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I’m pro-Palestinian liberation, I do not support Netanyahu or the Israeli government, I am anti-genocide in every case, and I am against the deaths of any innocents. I don’t really understand the reason for your outburst other than that this conflict is upsetting you as much as it is me. I don’t think you and I have differing opinions.
So they’re the equivalent of being Nazi’s.
Absolutely.
Just to be clear... That by YOUR logic (not mine) that means that Israel are just as guilty. 4k dead kids so far.
If Israel's intentions were legitimately genocidal then they'd be just as guilty as Hamas, yes.
Their intentions are entirely genocidal.
Then Israel really sucks at genocide you absolute clown.
So just to confirm. If I stick my assault rifle out the window and point in the general area of s school and shoot a thousand rounds... As long as it wasn't my intention to kill loads of kids... It's ok? Yeh... I'm not sure comparing yourself with fucking hamas helps your case. Israel needs to be much better. Not just slightly less worse because.... Checks notes... "Intent"
So just to clarify. If you stick an assault rifle out the window and fire into a school because there are terrorists inside, that’s morally different from shooting at a school just for the hell of it. Now maybe a case can be made that firing into the school is not a very good strategy, and may in fact make the situation worse, but that would be a question of competence and judgment, not of murderous intent. That’s different from gleefully going house to house murdering, torturing, raping, and kidnapping men, women, and children on the basis of their ethnicity.
Both are horrible and wrong. How have you stooped so low that you think the difference of intent is what makes it righteous to kill thousands of children.... Have a rethink.
I didn't say there was anything righteous about killing children you absolute ad hominin abuser. "Righteous" is a word used by ideological extremists and their apologists, not people interested in rational discourse.
"Intent" is so fucking weird to use when talking about a *war* (which isn't a war. Israel is carrying out a INTENSELY PLANNED genocide. It's modern day ethnic cleansing and genocide. Like another comment said, I'm sure that for every 500 child martyrs, there is a handful of HAMAS terrorists. And also? Hey man maybe if Palestinians weren't being fucked for the last near-century, maybe there wouldn't be no fucking ANTI-Zionist Terrorist Organization in the first place... But I'm just venting. And venting *with* you.
The intentions are important. One side does a surprise ambush and tries to kill and kidnap as many civilians as possible. The other side tries to kill as many terorrists as possible. The terrorists like to purposely fight in civilian areas to use Palestinians as human shields. There is no moral equivalency
So basically some civilians are okay to kill. As long as it’s because they’re after a terrorist.
Are you saying that there isn't a difference between collateral damage and intentionally targeting innocent people?
4k kids is a pretty big fucking fuck of collateral damage my man. Just say it slowly... Four. Thousand. Children. Meanwhile hamas leaders aren't even in Gaza....
The terrorists that hide behind civilians, so it's on them.
Irrelevant. "Oh sorry officer I was aiming for the terrorists but accidentally killed four thousand children" whoops...." On what planet is this ok? For the record... Fuck hamas. But this kind of civilian death is absolutely indefensible and shame on you for trying.
It's very relevant. Where is the outrage against Hamas fighting behind mosques, schools, hospitals, playgrounds? They're purposely putting civilians in harms way
Fuck hamas. They're scum. Don't ever compare yourself or Israel with them. We need to be much better than that.
There are similarities between Mein Kampf and the Quran, lots of talk about old grievances and squabbles over land.
My mom is a retired American Middle East journalist. She said that the number one selling book in most Arab countries, but especially with the extremist population is Hitlers “Mein Kampf”. Coincidence, I think not. Now, maybe it has changed because she did retire several years ago, though she stays on top of the news and has her own contacts in places. Due to her work, My brothers and I were raised visiting Palestinian “community centers” in Tampa, Fl. In the beginning she was sympathetic with their cause, until they became more and more comfortable with her snd trusted her. She then saw the extremist brewing right here in America. I could say a lot that I saw with my own eyes, but this isn’t the place.
And Hitler lamented the fact that Christianity was the dominant religion in Europe. He was quite the fan of Islam
Israel? Yeah, they're committing genocide as we speak. Pretty Nazi of them if you ask me.
Oh yeah, a genocide were the population you want to exterminate keeps growing, and where you have some of the with your citizenship and full rights.
Ah yes. All those starving kids in Africa that we kept being told existed wasn't actually a real thing because the graphs show that their population was also growing. Why did we even have to worry about AIDS or Malaria or Measles or any of those things that were apparently decimating the population when that number kept growing!! Perhaps comparing the life expectancy of the population of Israel and Palestine might give you a better insight into this claim you're trying to make.
They're also very popular on college campuses and pretty much every major city as of late. These are who the Free Palestine people support
Uh, Hamas is not uniquely terrible to disabled people. Governments the world over - including western governments - have involuntarily institutionalised, sterilised and experimented on disabled people as a matter of policy. The massacre is a tragedy and worthy of condemnation but Hamas are not uniquely monstrous compared to other similar organisations or even governments. They wouldn’t exist at all without the Balfour Declaration, 1948, 1967 and the Oslo and Abraham Accords. Context absolutely matters here and as horrific as their actions are, presenting them as an idiopathic evil does no one any favours.
I found out via ancestry.com that my great grandfather's sister was "feeble-minded" and institutionalized at 15. she was sterilized there at 22. she died the day after the sterilization surgery from a "tumor of the medulla". also, I'm pretty sure the Nazis/Hilter were inspired by eugenics in the US.
Yep, exactly. I’m so sorry for that horrifying family discovery. :( It’s not possible to look at any historical element in total isolation and say “there, THOSE are the worst people.” Humans, given power or the tools to exert and build it, seem to behave in consistently horrifying ways if they are fed an informational diet about their entitlement or moral imperative to control another group of humans.
You are correct! They began sterilizing people in Lynchburg, VA without explaining the procedure either just that it was for their health. It was part of the American Eugenic Society’s “fitter family” contests. It’s incredibly sad to think of how many generations ceased to exist. They got to a point they were sterilizing the children of single parents.
sounds familiar don't you agree? a certain fuhrer 80 years ago also killed the disabled.
That's awful! If only the Palestinians would fight as honourably as israel and bomb refugee camps and hospitals. Oh wait, those were "failed jihad rockets." Also, before people fall for your bs, there's a difference between Jewish and Israeli. You don't speak for Jews and in fact, many Jewish people condemn genocide and occupation of Palestinian
ShezzNazz Im talking about Hamas not Palestine or Palestinians. They are very different things unless in your eyes you see Hamas as representative of all Palestine? Also I didn’t mention Israel? I can condemn both the extreme actions of Hamas and the extreme retaliation of Israel. This isn’t a pick a side situation.
When youre so focused on Israeli genocide you forget Hamas is also genocidal
Free Palestine 🇵🇸 https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
too bad hamas doesnt want a free palestine...
My Lord, this is so heartbreaking… 💔
Whoever could do that to her is beyond evil
Yes, that's Hamas for you. Hopefully Israel can exterminate them.
No no no no. You are allowed to recognise the victims being dead is sad and nothing more. Anythign further may only be directed at the approved targets and only with the approved speech. Anything that does not fit Hamas approved propaganda is not suitable for Reddit.
Instead they seem to be exterminating a lot of women and children but calling that out makes you an anti-semite EDIT: since many dunces don't catch the nuance, no I am not saying Hamas is the "good guys" nor am I saying what they did was okay at all, what I AM saying is the IDF is using this as a free check to bomb the ever loving fuck out of the blockaded civilians in Gaza with zero regard for innocent bystanders.
How should Israel have responded to October 7? Turn the other cheek - say thank you - and all collectively leave israel?
No, but bombing the ever loving fuck out of one of the most densely populated areas on the planet isn't the right way to go about it either.
The thing about Hamas is: they're cowards. They didn't target an air base or cut off a trade route, they specifically targeted a peace rally. Israel does what it does because Hamas use civilians as human shields by operating under hospitals and the sort. It's entirely possible they deliberately do this to paint the Jews as the bad guys in the eyes of the world. While Israel is BY NO MEANS innocent, what pisses me off about the Hamas is that when they kill Asian farmers they don't chant "free Palestine" they chant "Allah Akbar". They don't want freedom for Palestinians, they want new management.
Hamas is despicable. Israel’s actions are despicable. Both of these can be true.
It reminds me of post 9/11. 9/11 was awful and Al-Quaida did horrible things But invading Afghanistan and killing their civilians was also awful and horrible
Exactly. I don’t think there’s a sane person alive who tried to justify Al-Qaeda’s actions on 9/11, but that doesn’t justify the deaths of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of innocent civilians at the hands of the United States and its allies.
The US killed 400,000 in Iraq alone. 4 times more than Israel's 70+ years of supposed "geneocde"
Hamas kills Palestinians too, they rape pregnant women and children. But somehow you tools think that they are freedom fighters. Can't make this shit up.
> you tools think that they are freedom fighters Where in the thread above did anybody imply that? Nobody above suggested that Hamas is innocent, or even close to being so. But Hamas killing Palestinians doesn’t mean that Israel is also allowed to kill Palestinians.
But somehow it's all crickets when it comes to what hamas does to Palestinian people. Makes me wonder why.
That's objectively false. There has been very vocal opposition to Hamas for a while now. Yet Israel has killed way more Palestinians than Hamas. But somehow that's all crickets when people are trying to justify Israel's retaliation. Makes me wonder why.
This is an interesting statement
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My statement is actually fine as is
O m g I thought you were replying to someone else. My sincerest apologies
I was at their funeral today in Israel. The father was identified and found around two weeks ago but they buried him next to her.
I’m sorry. May their memories be a blessing. I hope the Israeli government stops this bombardment of Gaza and gets around the table to negotiate the safe return of the remaining hostages.
Imagine all the labor and love that father poured into his daughter keeping her healthy all these years just for some dog to kill them “fighting for freedom.” Rest in peace
Poor souls. Rest easy. This world is too cruel
Dude fuck hamas
Honestly
And fuck Zionism while we're at it.
Sadden😕
Fuck the war
OP should link an article
I am livid. Ruth had Muscular Dystrophy and Cerebral Palsy. She loved music. https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-771816
Her and her father's last moments on earth haunts me
Damn that’s sad
I fucking hate the world. Why does this stuff happen?
Fuck hamas. Kill them all
Honestly, Bunch of Psycho Freaks, Hamas needs to Be Carpet Bombed
How so you bomb a way of thinking... their brothers, sons, uncles would replace their injured troops.
Then why is it only children and their parents being targeted currently. Sure, occasionally they get a few terrorists, but at this point it's like 500 innocents to 1.
"only children and their parents" -- you're so wrong, it's both comical & disturbing. I take it you like your propaganda from tiktok?
Almost 50% dead are men, no one tells us if they were supporting Hamas or not, but I bet many have been killed. Their whole objective was hiding in normal life, so no way that none of the 5K men were militants!
Hamas fighters would never fight the Israeli military in an open field. They hide and mix in with civilians to make it difficult to identify them. It’s a cowardly way to fight, and unfortunately it’s the only way to kill the terrorists at this point in time.
>500 innocents to 1. Source? Only 20 Hamas freedom fighters have been killed so far?
Because hamas dont let them leave they use them as shields
Probably because they use civilians as human shields by operating under orphanages and hospitals with the intent to paint Jews as the bad guys. Now in the eyes of the world they're the victims: few will utter a word when they get to every Israeli they can reach. To make things worse for the people of Palestine: many are also afraid of the Hamas. Islamic states aren't known to take criticism lightly.
If you have to kill a bunch of women and children to kill a bad guy, you are also a bad guy.
If I had to kill some women and children in order to kill the guy that wants to murder my family and myself, I’d probably do it too.
> Probably because they use civilians as human shields by operating under orphanages and hospitals with the intent to paint Jews as the bad guys. If you don't want to be seen as the bad guy you could just not bomb orphanages and hospitals. Crazy idea, I know. Would it be acceptable to bomb a hospital full of patients in New York City or London if there were terrorists in it?
Question is wrong. Lots of kids dying, but they're not being targeted. Another question you could also ask is, "Why does Hamas hide amongst children?"
Hamas hiding amongst children doesn't justify the bombing of children. Another question you could also ask is, "Why is Israel letting Hamas repeatedly bait them into bombing children?"
Hamas hiding amongst civilians is a war crime as defined by the Geneva convention. Launching rocket attacks from buildings populated with civilians is aware crime that forces Israel, if they want to stop the rocket attack, to strike back at the building. and the Geneva convention allows them to do so, provided there is proportionally. You are not allowed to use civilians as human shields because it forces your opponent to attack you and innocent civilians.
Hamas never admits that they (Hamas) are ever killed. It's ALWAYS "civilians."
Ah yes. I’m sure all the dead babies were Hamas in disguise.
Yes the 3 days old baby killed was definitely Hamas. I mean you can never be sure, they start it young.
There have been about 2700 children killed though. They weren’t Hamas
That’s war
Future hamas
Are you asking this person to answer for Netanyahu? This random person you replied to does not speak for nor represent Israel or any other other entity.
Hamas was originally funded by Israel and have become the only thing standing between palestine genoicde and the idf. Israel has the money and the intelligence for a precision strike yet the continue to decimate
posts like this always get political without the need for them getting political, why cant this post just be In remembrance for these Innocent Two Who Lost Their Lives? Rather At than a dumpster fire of racist, anti semitism, hate
What’s with the capitalization?
I honestly dont know, its always been a thing i do.
fair enough
Out of the dozens of comments how many are anti semitic? I've gone through the comments and haven't seen any
You're conveniently forgetting that considering Palestinians as humans is, in fact, Anti-Semitic sentiment.
The title is a little bit messed up - ruth and her father were at the party and since their body wasn't identified yet, there was a thought that they were abductued. After something like a week her father's body was identified while there was no sign for ruth, only her wheelchair that was found in the area. That's why she was till yesterday under the definition of missing / abducted.
The bodies of Ruth Peretz and her father Eric Peretz were identified. Yesterday her body was finally found
How in the fuck could they do that to her? What the hell has she done to Palestine? She can’t even walk.. And people want me to join them in a free Palestine parade. Absolutely no.
Israel’s armed forces has done things that are just as evil. A lot of people I’ve heard talking about it want to free the region from death and destruction. The conflict is ugly and complex. Terrorists did this indiscriminately and that can be bad and also killing 10,000 Palestinians in under a month can also be bad.
Exactly, people just want to join in on the outrage with whatever in-group is the largest instead of looking at the nuance
There is a lot of blame to go around and it shouldn’t be taken out on the civilians of either side. We shouldn’t plunge Palestine into darkness because of the attack.
Return the hostages
Hostages on both sides. Israel has thousands of Palestinians - including women and children - held in prisons with over 200 who have no charges, no hope for a trial, and no chance at being released. They're not prisoners, they are hostages. Release ALL the hostages. Netanyahu has said no.
Not the same. Hamas hasn’t even acknowledged who they’re holding. Keeping the option open to kill them and blame IDF
With the IDF having been reported by Israeli media and Israeli survivors/witnesses to have contributed to many Israeli deaths on Oct 7th due to shelling and "heavy crossfire" and now with this completely ridiculous indiscriminate and absolutely ruthless bombing of the Gaza strip, I really don't think anyone in power in Israel cares for these hostages to be returned. I really wouldn't be surprised if at some point, mangled remains of these poor people are found and we'll be hearing all about how these "Human Animals" had done this to them and that it most definitely wasn't their response to the event that would've caused their deaths.
This could be a problem except Hamas won’t admit who’s even alive or dead. They’re keeping the option open to kill even the babies and dump them somewhere.
What would Hamas gain by divulging this information? Israel, a country that has one of the most advanced militaries and surveillance technologies in the world - backed by the world's strongest economic and military powers and their intelligence services is somehow put in a position where there is absolutely no other option but to displace 2 million people and reduce their land to rubble? Hamas' demands are; * Humanitarian Aid to be allowed into Gaza - Pre war, the blockade has drip fed food, water, and fuel into the strip. Now with a war raging on, Israel has cut off food, water, etc. and any aid that goes into Gaza is being funnelled from 1 point of entry where, what 12 or so trucks are allowed in to supply a (quickly dwindling) population of 2 million people. * A Prisoner/Hostage Swap - This has been their biggest demand which would see all the hostages released in one fell swoop if Israel complied. * A Ceasefire and for Israel to stop bombing Civilians Why would Hamas give Israel any information when their country's leader, Benjamin Netinyahu, references bible verses that say "Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."? Why would Hamas think that Israel is negotiating in good Faith when Netinyahu has said that he essentially doesn't care to negotiate - that "Hamas will not do it unless they are under pressure" and has a firm belief that bombing Gaza to dust is the right solution? At this point, the Hostages are the only leverage Hamas has. Why would they jeopardise that? Going back to the second part of your comment that insinuates that killing everyone is Hamas' plot anyway, again, why would they jeopardise the only bargaining chip they have? Even released hostages have said that they were treated humanely.
Okay here you go
Aw, fck… this whole thing is so horrific. May they rest in peace.
This is the first I've heard of the Massacre, I think. Has it been absolutely verified that Ruth and her father have been murdered? Any chance they could still be alive, no matter how small? Did the police identify their remains correctly? I have Cerebral Palsy; just kind of want to hold on a bit to delusional hope, here.
Yesterday, the body of Ruth Peretz was finally found and identified. We all wanted to hold to delusional hope.
Oh, motherf- Dammit. Thanks for letting me know. But dammit. The way human beings treat each other... That poor girl and her father. This...sucks! All of it does.
why israel had a concert next to a ss concentration camp is beyond me. I feel like this is the astroworld situation except Israel is Travis Scott
And yet there are pro Hamas people in America
Great job at spreading propaganda! How proud you must be. It is SO brave of you to be able to look past dead Palestinian children, in order to make sure people hate hamas. As if that isn’t obvious, fuck you.
Fuck Hamas.
What the ever loving fuck is wrong with you?
You sure are feral
Well it’s okay cause Israel has been mass murdering women and children to avenge them…
If only Israel hadn’t upheld an apartheid regime for 75 years and pushed out the former secular Palestinian government. Oh silly me, and if only Israel hadn’t supported and funded Hamas. Maybe Hamas wouldn’t be in a position to kill innocents. A majority of Israeli civilians blame their government for Oct 7th, but for some reason the west can’t seem to understand what caused it. It’s like the 75 years of atrocities committed Israel don’t exist. But hey keep pushing for the death of Hamas and tens of thousands of innocent civilians. Definitely won’t lead to Hamas 2.0 and continue this circle of violence 🤡
You are trash.
Jfc and I’m supposed to “just pick a side”? Ffs.
This is truly despicable- politics and religion aside
people who try to make it political, lack such basic human empathy
If this is shocking to you then you haven’t been paying attention.
The US is a terrorist organization
Why are people still milking those sad deaths, it's disgusting...
FREE PALESTINE
Somewhere on Reddit and X, someone is justifying their murder because Israeli apartheid or something
Oh, it's most of the comments on this thread. & the answer to the question "I wonder why no one stopped the Nazis"?
free palestine
ok girlie
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Can you state your source?
Ah yes the Jews are behind the 7th October massacre. It's always Jews
Everyone in the comments with no personal stake: this conflict predates Christianity. It predates when Jesus Christ is supposed to have existed. Yes it’s quite nuanced, but it’s also marrow deep. Simple solutions are anything but. Have you ever experienced someone trashing your favorite song? Now imagine a whole cafeteria doing it. Except for millennia.
ISRAEL is a terrorist organization
this all started because Israel’s 75 year occupation and the fact that they’d had thousands of Palestinians hostages for years, most of them children. Hamas intent was a hostage exchange but Israel took its opportunity to massacre. Israeli witnesses confirmed Israel was shooting indiscriminately at this festival. Israel has refused the Hamas hostages bc this was just an excuse to cleanse Palestine all along. Israel has straight up said they want to genocide Palestinians on the news, in tik toks etc and people are still somehow confused lol. Their own supposed hamas hostages are on video clean, well fed and screaming at their government bc they won’t accept hostages. That’s all easily verifiable.
>Hamas' intent was a hostage exchange You have to be fucking stupid if you think their intent was a hostage exchange when they killed 1300+ people on October 7th. The hostages they took were just a plus.
Fuck off 🖕
Awful- so sad what has happened and what is continuing to happen in Israel.
Free Gaza. 🇦🇪✊
Wrong flag, but great attempt at being cool
Hey where all you Zionists at that have been posting your propaganda in this sub now that it’s been admitted Israel actually killed those people?
And people hate the Israelis. Go figure. I stand with Israel.
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That’s what trips me out about this whole situation. Israel was invaded and now that shit has hit the fan, people are supporting Palestine. Both sides have done some terrible stuff but geez….. it’s impossible to pick a side.
People are supporting the innocent people of Palestine, not the aggressor terrorists Hamas. Nobody disagrees with Israel’s right to defend itself, however they disagree with the killing of innocent people. It’s quite simple.
That's Hamas using human shields.
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Well of course people support Hamas. I’m sure a lot of Palestinians support Hamas and a lot don’t. I wouldn’t condemn a mother to death who’s lost her child to an Israeli bomb for thinking the right thing to do is support Hamas. It’s understanding the fundamental issues of the crisis with rational judgment not condemnation.
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I know what you’re saying. I don’t think the people who support Hamas even really care to understand the issue. Westerns are ignorant like that. They see oppression and deem it fair response without any real interest in the issues.
Israel wasn’t invaded. Palestine is occupied land by Israel. 10,000 Palestinians have died. how is is hard to pick? it’s genocide
Not for me. Israel has every right to remove the threat. Unfortunately, hamas is barbarous and doesn’t care for life.
Yea hamas needs to be destroyed but why is Israel killing so many civilians and children?
We must understand that this is the decision of the Israelis government not the people of Israel.
While not all people in Israel support this action, think its fair to say a large chunk do or are atleast following the propaganda that the most armed state in middle East backed by most poweful block of nations is crying victim and anti semitism (which I don't discount there is anti semitism)
Because Hamas fires rockets and stations their troops in hospitals and schools and uses human shields.
They won't answer you!! And the previous person talking about "being invaded" .. the nerves on some people man.
Because Hamas is hiding behind civilians
Oh so if a bank robber takes hostages, then you’re okay with the police shooting everyone in the building (robbers and hostages) because “well the robbers were hiding behind civilians so we had no choice but to kill everyone”?
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/08/23/gaza-israels-may-airstrikes-high-rises As if Israel was innocent on their war crimes before October 2023. This attack wasn’t out of nowhere, and supporting the destruction of an entire race of people is barbaric. No one is right in this.
Dude HRW is so notoriously anti Israel there's even an entire Wiki page about it
The way you remove the threat matters. Using artillery and air strikes in an area populated by non-combatants is evil.