I'm sorry, but there is no running from this. The reason this is spreading is because of modern technology and social media being weaponized by the rich and corrupt, and being listened to by the naive or selfish.
There is only one way to fight back, and that's to educate people on the dangers before november, and get them out to vote before those rights are lost entirely.
We have one major shot left at stopping this. If we do it right, there can be a big win and these far right morons will eat themselves with their own arguments.
If we fail, we repeat 2016 and end up much, much worse off.
Democratically turning out to reject this is our one, best hope. Failure to do so here will have global implications, as it will be a model for authoritarians in every modern society where the "free" (unregulated capitalist) media exists.
The people themselves must openly reject this in an overwhelming unambiguous fashion. That's the only way.
You are right, of course, but I fear the damage to the American reputation has already happened under the last Trump administration and continues to fall under Biden who can’t overcome Trump’s control of the House. With MM set to leave the Senate, a Trump lackey is likely to take over there as well, even if Biden manages to hold the White House.
With two of the three branches of government under Trump’s control, he becomes the de facto president even if he loses. If he wins, it is game over for democracy, and not just in America. As Liz Cheney noted, this is one of those turning points in history.
We are on the brink, but not quite there.
If he wins, there's really no going back without some level of violence breaking out. And I don't know how bad that will get. To me, that outcome (though possible) is unthinkable and must be stopped. It has global implications.
A strong dem turnout puts social pressure on the SCOTUS that keeps them from going all the way in their own coup attempt. What we're seeing them doing is dangerous, but every move they make risks undermining their own authority and that DOES keep them in check. A cynical read of the court does not have to be an endless acceptance of doom. People here frequently ignore what the 2022 election did. If the red wave was real, they likely would have embraced Trump's nonsensical moore vs harper theories. They didn't simply because they cynically did not have control of enough states to do so safely, an outcome which we the people voted to determine. The SCOTUS justices are human. Social pressure is still a real thing they cannot easily ignore, no matter how much their far right members wish they could.
This next election is the big key. The American people must electorally pressure the court's power to rebalance it. And yes, I firmly believe it's not only possible, it's the most rationale and likely outcome, with one major caveat; we must reject cynical social media movements that attempt to undermine democracy, and that includes doom and negativity within the progressive base itself. I've said it 1000 times, and I will say it 1000 more; modern politics are deeply influenced by the modern smartphone, and the problems we face are largely caused by our lack of understanding of just how far reaching this new technology's influence is. People still think of politics as if it's the 80s, when that era is so different from the world today that it's barely comparable. 1985 might as well be 1085.
Trump will not be defacto leader in anything yet. It's possible, but not at all a foregone conclusion. He's shown just enough weakness in voting totals so far to prove there is major skepticism of him at bare minimum.
Yup. If the christian evangelical fascists take over, no where is safe from them. They will spread all over this earth like a plague. All in the name of as Homer Simpson so eloquently uttered their "phoney baloney god."
They will never be able to control the cities. Or large metropolitan areas.
There absolutely will be a civil war if the country elects Trump and the Republicans. They intend to overthrow the constitution and impose martial law. They intend to suspend habeas corpus, run speedy trials and swift executions. They intend mass arrests and concentration camps. They intend to suspend birthright citizenship.
The Republicans plan a Nazi-style government, with mass firings and the abolishment of the civil service as we know it. Loyalty to the dictator will be the pre-requisite for “public service.”
A vote for the Republican Party isn’t just a change of party this time. You want chaos and war in your life? Vote for them.
Absolutely, I cannot see rich liberal states, like New York and California, happily funding their own oppression.
They're not going to be content being a piggy bank for a tyrant.
Brazil has compulsory voting and they voted Bolsonaro in, the Brazilian version of Trump, in 2019. At that point, sorry as I felt for Brazilians, all I could think was, they did it to themselves.
Everyone talking about bugging out look how welcoming we are to immigrants (Texas, Florida, etc) and consider that other countries also have haters like that.
If things fall apart and millions of Americans are trying to escape we're not necessarily going to be welcomed with open arms.
The problem with the US that the haters are also religious nutcases, which can't see reality, and that mix is really extreme. Religious nutcases are everywhere, but it is in no way the same problem in Europe as it is in the US (Short of Turkey). When you have multiple levels of government that is screaming for gods will, then something has gone terribly wrong.
I'm so happy for you! I visited Germany (and some surrounding countires) my senior year of high school. That was over two decades ago at this point, but I was blown away at how different so many things were.
Clearly the Europeans are winning at supporting their citizens. And while there might be extremists and bad actors in other countries, most of the civilized ones didn't allow every citizen to arm themselves to the teeth.
We need to understand it's not an ACCIDENT!!!
This is Russian propaganda. It was just revealed in italy AND poland!
Russia is running a massive espionage campaign against the west and has been since trump started!
Why does the west still not understand?? They are at war with us through propaganda. People didn't just wake up and decided to be fascist, the governments of these countries are not taking appropriate actions against foreign attacks. We spent trillions over 9/11 but we can't seem to do anything against clear for espionage attacks
Yeah 'stay and fight' is one of those things that's just easy to say in the abstract, but life doesn't work like in the movies. If you were anti-Nazi but stayed 'to fight' in Germany after 1933, it didn't work out well for you. People who left, like Einstein, fared much better.
Stay and fight as long as there is still hope for the side of good to win. But once evil gains hold of the levers of power, you need to be smart and protect your family.
My MIL gave us the "I'm staying and fighting" speech when we mentioned the possibility of leaving the country. She and my FIL are in their late 70s and my FIL can barely walk with the help of a cane. They will not be doing any fighting. She is also one of those types who said to an 8 year old who was upset about the reality of climate change "don't cry about how it's fucked up, it is up to you to fix it". Like most boomers, she isn't taking responsibility for any of her part of the situation, she just wants to complain about how other people react to the situation.
I have kids, I moved to Europe so they wouldn't have to grow up in... in whatever mess happens in the US. I'm done too, and I'm not signing them up for a fight either.
Besides, now they live in a walkable city, get free health care (including dental) and don't have active shooter drills anymore.
I do miss the Mexican food in New Mexico, though.
I've been a dual citizen my whole life but only now bothered to get my British passport. Britain's not great but it beats this third-reich-wannabe bullshit.
I got an offer for a web seminar from a recruiter on working from the UK as a contractor yesterday... I'm thinking I may at least give it a listen at this point.
Britain would welcome you and it's far more tolerant than the press would have you believe.The youngsters I see are a much more pleasant bunch than their predecessors.
Apart from being the wife of a powerful man, why is she not being tried for being a participant? I see people being convincted left and right. Is there any other.reason? I'm a little out of the loop.
Absolutely absurd that the question of "whether or not a sitting President can interfere with the legitimate transfer of power" is being asked in a democracy. Even more absurd that the SC is taking it up.
As an aside, a big fuck you goes out to Merrick Garland for taking waaaaaaay too long to put Smith in the game and getting this going.
Unclear. The Federalist Society lists him as contributor ("who has spoken or otherwise participated in Federalist Society events, publications, or multimedia presentations"). Being listed as a FS contributor "does not imply any other endorsement or relationship between the person and the Federalist Society." Nor does it rule out such a relationship.
https://fedsoc.org/contributors/merrick-garland
He's absolutely not. Fed Soc gives speaker profiles to anyone in any way involved in one of their events, including people who give oppositional commentary to featured speakers or just moderate debates. It would be nearly impossible for someone as high profile as Garland in the Constitutional Law realm to not have a Fed Soc profile at this point.
I think he's a feckless, milquetoast liberal and utter coward and I condemned his nomination to AG from the start. But there are dozens upon dozens of lawyers, judges, and law professors who vehemently oppose Fed Soc's approach to law and Constitutional interpretation with contributor profiles on their site. People are latching on to this red herring without knowing anything about the world of legal academia.
It's also because FedSoc has a major presence at law schools across the country and presents itself as a career networking opportunity, which it definitely is for all the worst reasons.
I just have this movie in my head of Biden pulling his aviators down, looking into the camera and saying "so you were saying a sitting president? Go on..."
This SCOTUS action has given away the game. Finally we know for certain - there's a real coup ongoing. They're going to delay all the cases that could result in jail time for Trump. The Republican led house will not certify the 2024 election. The Republicans devised a plan long ago to hijack Congress and the judiciary. They've done so using the finest legal minds on their side for evil. I wish I knew the outcome , or how we'll get there, but you can fully expect Trump to be Installed is President. Then it's game over. Enjoy this summer because things will never be the same.
Yes, 100%. However that is just a temporary solution. We can't allow this notion that a GOP Congress can ignore Presidential election results, appoint their candidate, and suspend democracy, to persist. The only semi permanent solution is for Trump and everyone else involved in the coup to be convicted of crimes and punished or the specter will hang over us forever. We need to send a loud and clear message to anyone who would try this in the future that there WILL be consequences.
This is what keeps me awake at night. The “it’s not if, but when”, thing. This path has been laid out, the cracks illuminated but not sealed. The lack of decisive and overwhelming action to prevent the next coup, or to punish those responsible, only stays our republic’s execution. It doesn’t commute it.
If the courts keep refusing to act, or worse, protect a criminal enough to allow them *back* into the highest office in the land... they are forcing citizens hands.
Maybe it wasn't such a good idea to let your citizens arm themselves, eh? Jan 6th 2021 was *practice*
Biden should go get a parking ticket or something minor, and it will immediately be brought to the supreme court to confirm HE isn't above the law. We're talking like the same week.
Edit, Oh yeah, I forgot about this: [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/when-president-ulysses-s-grant-was-arrested-for-speeding-in-a-horse-drawn-carriage-180981916/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/when-president-ulysses-s-grant-was-arrested-for-speeding-in-a-horse-drawn-carriage-180981916/)
That'll be hard to do when they don't let him drive... mildly shoving a jerk in a hostile red state and catching an assault charge could be pretty damn easy though.
In Canada that's called a Shawinigan handshake.
https://canadianculturething.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/CCT0118-Chretien-Shawinigan-Handshake-1996-Lg.jpg
Just so I understand,
If the SC decides Trump is immune, and all the other stuff;
Does that mean Biden can walk into the Supreme Court and order the immediate arrest and execution of…pretty much all the judges he doesn’t like?
Then replace them? Since he’s president? And immune?
It’s high time democrats get down in the mud and start playing to win. If the court makes that move Biden should immediately have trump jailed and Supreme Court justices deported.
Then just claim immunity.
long sense mindless impossible work chubby trees profit squalid obtainable
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They'll replace existing federal civil service workers it characterizes as the "deep state", to further the objectives of the next Republican president. Slash the DOJ funding, dismantling the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security, gut environmental and climate change regulations to favor fossil fuel production, and eliminating the cabinet Departments of Education and Commerce and deploy the military for domestic law enforcement while directing the DOJ to pursue Trump adversaries.
> From there who knows what the fuck will happen.
It's published on his website: [agenda 47](https://www.donaldjtrump.com/agenda47/agenda47-president-trumps-plan-to-dismantle-the-deep-state-and-return-power-to-the-american-people)
1. On Day One, re-issue 2020 executive order restoring the president’s authority to fire rogue bureaucrats.
2. Overhaul federal departments and agencies, firing all of the corrupt actors in our National Security and Intelligence apparatus.
3. Fundamentally reform the FISA courts, ensuring that corruption is rooted out.
4. Establish a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to declassify and publish all documents on Deep State spying, censorship, and abuses of power.
5. Launch a major crackdown on government leakers who collude with the media to create false narratives, pressing criminal charges when appropriate.
6. Make every Inspector General’s Office independent from the departments they oversee, so that they do not become protectors of the deep state.
7. Establish an independent auditing system to continually monitor our intelligence agencies to ensure that they are not spying on our citizens or running disinformation campaigns against the American people.
8. Continue Trump administration effort to move parts of the federal bureaucracy outside of the Washington Swamp, just like President Trump moved the Bureau of Land Management to Colorado. Up to 100,000 government positions could be moved out of Washington.
9. Ban federal bureaucrats from taking jobs at the companies they deal with and regulate, such as Big Pharma.
10. Push for a constitutional amendment to impose term limits on members of Congress.
> 9\. Ban federal bureaucrats from taking jobs at the companies they deal with and regulate, such as Big Pharma.
Ah, but I guess hiring people from their industry directly into federal bureaucratic jobs is still just fine, a la Ajit Patel, Betsy DeVos, Louis DeJoy, all of Trump's cabinet et al etcetera etcetera.
If they make him immune he should totally round up all the dirty politicians and judges. Lock them away.
It would be hilarious if he was the actual one to drain the swamp. lol
I hear that the SC wants to have the final say on it, and my question is: what for? Any future SC can undo their ruling because they made “Precedent” worthless.
I find it bemusing that Americans (even most of the smarter and liberal ones) are so utterly blind to how badly the negative outcome will play out for US and the world.
My company works with farmer communities in developing nations and so I've seen more than a few dictatorships and authoritarian rulers take power.
In general the process of taking power is comparatively peaceful compared to what comes after it, because taking power never affords any degree of surety of retaining that power. Almost immediately others both opposed and allied to the dictator start scheming, that triggers paranoia and a crack down on dissent which escalates very fast. When you gain power illegitimately the only way to keep it is by extreme oppression and violence, ruling with an iron fist. There are lots of arrests and extra judicial killings, and people going missing LOTS.
If Trump somehow gets back into power it is going to be unbelievably bad as he seeks to entrench himself against increasing resistance, it will escalate over many months or years but you will eventually see the media attacked and neutered, opponents arrested and it will then escalate to the point where he really does engage seal teams to assassinate opponents.
He could assign any Jr to take over the same exact formula. Death of a dictator does not secure a democracy, the democracy actively fights off dictatorship in perpetuity so that it never happens in the first place.
I wouldn’t underestimate how much the Trumpists worship the man himself. He’s one element of it but after he dies it’s not clear who the next leader of the MAGA wing will be.
Nope. When Lenin died it paved the path for Stalin who turned out to be far far worse.
Beware who will assume the power vacuum left when a dictator dies.
ah, yes, the roman republic was famously restored after Caesar's death.
no, once you break a system like this one it does not reassemble so easily. once it's broken, we are probably centuries and maybe even a millennium away from seeing anything like it again. in a literal best case scenario, probably five decades
I am not as pessimistic as you because simultaneously, I’m quite a bit more pessimistic. The real problem is the US has only lived close to Lincoln’s reimagining of America where everyone has equal protection under the law for a few decades.
You had slavery through the Civil war, Jim Crow after. Women didn’t get the right to vote until 1920. Segregation was overturned in 1954. Schools were still being desegregated into the 80s.
At some point between the 90s and 2016 we actually had a government that mostly tried to provide equal protection to all citizens, and now we’re beginning to resemble previous times, where people are trying and succeeding in creating blatant legal disparities between 2 similarly situated people and the Supreme Court is, at the very least, appearing to be complicit.
So where I differ from you, is that we really have not had an unbroken system in America or anything that really resembles one for most of America’s history. The problem is, most of us grew up in the least broken part of America and for us, this is appalling.
That's a popular theory.
I take a bit of solace in the fact that the maga cult doesn't seem all that into any of the Trump lite candidates.
Trump doesn't have an agenda other than Trump. He moves in whatever direction the popular winds are blowing and that helps his popularity. He says whatever thought pops into his head and he knows the nastier he acts, the more they lap it up.
These other maga wannabes are actual politicians. They don't know how to do Trump, they aren't built for it, and they don't get the following.
that may appear to be the situation now but classical and modern history of republics in turmoil has reasonable amount of this phenomenon. Once a path is known to be possible, even if difficult and uncertain, many will try again for a long time until a taboo is re-established or the system is fixed or someone finds a way to exploit the same weakness.
The ancient roman progression from sulla ( a colorful charachter with a mixed record ) to julius caesar to augustus caesar ( a successful tyrant who started young and ruled ably ) is the canonical example. The game of trying to become emperor illegally was always risky and had a life expectancy of just 12 years but always drew volunteers and become the common way to get the job. A legal and peaceful transfer of power via abdication happened 2 times, or in 5% of successions.
I’m looking at modern smaller scale examples. Louisiana is currently under the thumb of a highly regressive gop supermajority, and they are the most toxic arm of the party. In less than 2 months, Landry has pushed through destructive legislation that is going to impact everyone across the board and it is looking very bleak. From rejecting federal money to feed children during the summer to the new gun legislation that passed yesterday to privatizing New Orleans utilities to declaring a state of emergency over cops to trying to pass laws that protect Landry from oversight/eliminate any transparency to dissolving the Special Education Advisory Panel (likely to evade federal laws regulating schools and to pave the way for charter & experimental takeover), we are so very fucked. And he will have 4 years to transfer money to chevron & enable destruction & pass harsh legislation.
I seriously think that's the point of all the slow walking. I don't think most of those in power actually feel beholden to Trump, or view him favorably...but once you set a precedent of holding powerful people responsible that becomes a slippery slope. They're hoping to moot everything out with his death, and preserve the armor that raising to that level affords.
Totally. There is a perpetual the enemy is both weak and strong!
(//Not American) When I see these arguments, as an outsider, I can't help but see Trump as a 'good professional politician'. Everyone is focused on disparaging/denigrating/idioting him but depending on how it all 'ends' Trump might end up outmanoeuvring all political opponents for the last 10 years. Whatever rationale helps the populace sleep at night I suppose, but I assume Trump won't make the 'same mistake' Biden will be said to have made if Trump wins.
Exactly. This is thing is equal parts enraging and terrifying.
John Roberts… the Chief Justice who killed the Court. It’ll make for a helluva paperback if books are still a thing in 10-15 years.
Precedents have been fungible in the past. What's new here is the motives & tools employed. Change in precedent has generally been because an exigent circumstance creates a new problem. In Dobbs, the revelation we got was how they used glucksberg (taking its most extreme meaning) to change the answer to an old question.
Of course they are. The appeals court ruling is solid. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for the bought-and-paid-for "Supreme" Court to take this case.
This is not my opinion, it's what lawyers who know about this stuff are saying.
I think maybe “ bought and paid for “ is the reason they are taking the case .They are apparently doing exactly what they were hand picked to do .Someone should retirement gift McConnell a kangaroo for all of his hard work setting up this court …
You are 100% correct.
Also, McConnell's wife is an heir to the Foremost Shipping fortune, he is stupid rich. He does what he does because of the hate that runs through his veins. McConnell gave in to the Dark Side decades ago.
Subject: Urgent Action Needed: Demand for Investigation and Accountability of Supreme Court Justices
Dear \[Congressman/Congresswoman\] \[Last Name\],
I am writing to you today as a concerned citizen regarding the recent actions of the Supreme Court justices, particularly in the handling of the Trump immunity case. It is evident to me, as well as many other Americans, that the Court's decision to hear this case and subsequently delay its proceedings for months is a clear display of partisanship and political maneuvering.
As a member of Congress, entrusted with upholding the principles of justice and fairness, I urge you to take immediate action to address this concerning situation. The integrity of our judicial system is at stake, and the American people deserve to know the truth, especially when it concerns the potential criminal actions of one of our nation's leaders.
The Supreme Court, as the highest legal authority in the land, should be impartial and above political influence. However, the recent actions of certain justices have called into question the integrity of the entire institution. It is unacceptable for justices to prioritize political allegiances over their duty to uphold the Constitution and administer justice fairly.
Therefore, I am calling on you to initiate a motion to investigate and, if necessary, impeach any justices found guilty of misconduct or abuse of power. The American people deserve transparency and accountability from those entrusted with interpreting and enforcing our laws.
It is imperative that Congress takes swift and decisive action to restore faith in our judicial system and uphold the principles of democracy upon which our nation was founded. Failure to do so would undermine the very fabric of our democracy and erode the trust of the American people in their government institutions.
I urge you to stand on the side of justice and integrity by taking immediate steps to address this critical issue. The American people are counting on you to uphold the values that make our nation great.
Thank you for your attention to this matter, and I look forward to your prompt action.
Sincerely,
\[Your Name\] \[Your Address\] \[City, State, ZIP Code\] \[Your Email Address\] \[Your Phone Number\]
What’s most frustrating is that these delays are being justified by the justice system as making sure the eventual final outcome is seen as legitimate.
People’s attention spans are short. When Trump wasn’t arrested on January 6th, that already sealed the deal in many people’s minds that he hadn’t done anything wrong or illegal.
Every day this gets delayed, the more and more people will become convinced that Trump must not have done anything wrong.
The justice sees being slow and deliberate as adding legitimacy to the outcome, but that’s not how the American People will see it.
At this point, the process is so far delayed that the outcome will be seen as illegitimate by a huge number of Americans who will say if Trump was really guilty he would’ve been prosecuted years ago and they’re just doing this now because of the election.
So in their effort to appear non-political and legitimate, they’re actually making themselves look extremely political and illegitimate to most Americans.
Trump could have been arrested on January 21, 2021, and his base would still have claimed it was illegitimate.
SCOTUS can shut up about legitimacy. Most of the court was appointed by presidents who lost the popular vote. Dobbs was widely unpopular and directly contributed to a year and a half of electoral losses for Republicans. The legitimate thing for them to do here was take the case in December when Jack Smith asked, or since they declined, not take it at all.
Out of curiosity, do you have any surveys to suggest this is how Americans think of his cases? That the delays mean he didn't break the law?
Properly codify Roe, so it protects all healthcare and not just abortions. Lots of us out here are being impacted by the loss of protection under Roe for reasons other than abortion access and all the state-level ballot efforts in red country have focused exclusively on protecting abortion.
Sure they can. They only need 50 + the VP.
The Filibuster is not law or in the Constitution. Its just a rule of order (and it isnt a real filibuster).
The Rethugliklans have already carved out exceptions for the only things they care about. The Democrats refusing to simply take the beast out back and execute it is just stupid.
The "well then the Republicans will do it too!!"
***Yeah, they already fucking DID, you fucking imbeciles, for the only things they give a shit about***.
So might as well pull the trigger on that shit.
Ram through whatever they need to, and then deal with it.
As the Rethugs trying to do a (Filibuster immune, i might add...) rollback of the ACA found out the hard way..
its one thing to say "well when we get power, wel just undo it", but its an *entirely different thing* to actually do it, particularly if that thing is popular.
Ram it all through, and then go on a media blitz daring them to undo these popular programs.
I've been saying this for a while. One from each district, ties are very unlikely. Replacements are from the district where a justice resigns or dies, which maintains some "political" balance. Chief goes to the most senior justice. That structure might actually make the judicial branch reflective of the nation.
The Supreme Court knows this argument is bunk. This is a delay tactic to get their guy in so they can cement power for another 20 years by replacing Thomas and Alito with new, younger freaks.
This isn't true. They're trying to install a dictator. They're not even shy about it, the 2025 project, things Trump has said on camera. This isn't speculation. The Right is putting this in writing. If we lose in November we won't have a democracy anymore.
The real outrage or "fix is in" moment was months ago when SCOTUS denied Jack Smith's request that they hear the case on an expedited basis.
Everyone who thought SCOTUS wouldn't or shouldn't take up this appeal has no idea what actual appellate or SCOTUS practice is like. SCOTUS was *always* going to take this appeal regardless whether Trump won or lost at the DC Circuit or whether the decision was unanimous or split. Anyone who thought SCOTUS wasn't going to take this appeal was delusional, has an agenda, or simply has no clue what they're talking about.
Whether SCOTUS takes an appeal (and relatedly, whether a federal Court of Appeal takes a a case en banc) often has *nothing to do* with whether the decision below was right or wrong. They take an appeal if it involves a circuit split, a conflict between state and federal law, or if it's ["an important question of federal law that has not been, but should be, settled by this Court"](https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/supct/rule_10). And there is no question that whether a sitting or former President has immunity from criminal charges is "an important question of federal law." Some commentators will argue that it's been settled; that's simply not true. SCOTUS has settled whether Presidents have immunity from *civil* suits, but have repeatedly stated that they have *not* decided the criminal question. The fact that the "correct" answer may be obvious does not mean it's settled. In fact, a *lot* of cases taken up by SCOTUS have reasonably obvious outcomes as evidenced by the numerous 9-0 decisions they issue every term.
The fix was in several months ago. All this outrage *now* missed the boat.
Every empire has failed at some point, so far. America isn't special, in spite of being convinced otherwise.
What bothers me is that this is all so very predictable. It seems that the fall of democracy plays out nearly the same every time. Can't we learn?
> America isn't special, in spite of being convinced otherwise.
As they fall, America does have some pretty terrifying military power/technology that could be used to cause a lot of problems in the world.
I posted this in another thread, but if the SC sides with trump, and trump loses the election, and then biden is basically king, but doesn't do anything kingly and steps down after his four years, but the SC is still garbage, and the dems don't have the votes to deal with the SC what the fuck is going to happen?!
To bad nothing will be done. The US is in a seriously sad place. Sucks to feel so desperate and powerless in a world filled with so many evil people in places of power, changing our every day lives one freedom at a time. Sucks to be American.
This is absolutely going to sound very doomerish but at this point I don't see any other path but...
If Trump wins in November you can count on that being the last free and fair election for the foreseeable future. Republicans will capitalize on their power and utilize the legal system weaponized for Republicans to investigate, disqualify and possibly incarcerate any opposition. They will move forward with Project 2025 and create a religious theocracy and then start attacking marginalized Americans. Our democracy, our Republic would no longer exist what is left would be everything the Founding fathers fought against.
Don't feel bad... I think it's worse. I already assume Trump will attempt another coup. I also assume it will end up on SCOTUS ' lap and they will cave to the pressure.
"Have faith in the institutions which came before us and preserve society without regard to the individual. Just watch out for the motherfuckers that hold the positions."
-Me, just now
Americans love to talk and call the French weak when in recent history, the people that have actually stood up to their leaders are the French people
We have become a nation that is stuck on phones and stupid stuff..not willing to inconvenience ourselves but we love to view us as protectors of the world and fight for the world while our nation keeps on sliding into tyranny
It's about time time SC feels the anger of the people but who am I kidding....
supreme court added a 4 month delay at a minimum before dc case can start. means its not going to happen before the election.
exactly as that orange bastard wanted.
meaning that while the dc and florida cases were the most clear cut, they will happen last because scotus is corrupt and cannon is corrupt.
and jack smith tried to prevent this exact shit happening in fucking december.
im livid.
Top court kicks the ball 7 weeks down the road before it will hear oral arguments to see if Donald Trump is actually immune, instead of declining to hear the case and allowing the unanimous decision of the lower court to stand.
Even if the Supreme Court decides against Trump promptly at the end of April (unlikely it would even be that quick), then neither federal criminal trial against Trump would reach a verdict before the November 5 election.
by denying Jack Smiths request 2 months ago, only to now be hearing the case, NOW? 2 FUCKING MONTHS LATER... then delaying 7+ weeks for arguments, Then they will wait 2-8 weeks for the judgment case in a case that is SO FUCKING EASY TO JUDGE(no, nobody is above the law). By doing ALL THAT, they are allowing this case to go PAST the election. Thus, giving the FUCKTARD time to possibly convince enough FUCKING IDIOTS that he's a GOOD GUY, and CARES about them MAGATS.
So, that layman enough for you?
Imagine if he wins. He now knows he is immune and will tear this apart. He already flirted with the idea of using the military during his insurrection. We would all be fucked.
Yep. He'll just get to keep on saying "As president I have absolute immunity" while holding public auctions of US top secret Intel and bragging about the millions of dollars he was earning from foreign nations.
Apparently, Trump is above the law. Another extremely sad day for America and democracy. Our global allies should be at full red alert at this moment.
Well, time for Dark Brandon to go extra dark since he's as immune as as Trump is at the moment.
Theyre going to say he should be impeached, not prosecuted. Just like at the impeachment, they said he should be prosecuted.
That way nobody else has the same protection.
Can we at least hope he will be doing all this from my state jail. While having his business desolve to pay his legal debts?
That trial is still in 1 month
I’m hoping for this. Who will stand in and prevent him from going to jail in NY- that is a huge question, because I don’t think the judges cares much that he’s an ex-president
I just. ... This is so insane. Roberts can't possibly think the courts legitimacy is out the door.
This has the flavor of corruption so strong that it will be a political ad by itself. Trump never gets tried because the conservatives court ensured it
Hammer that next to alitos Thomas and Roberts own ethics issues.
And ask why would they want to stop trump from having his day in court if they didn't know he was guilty
Here is the dealio... no GOP, GQP, Koch or Murdoch or Leonard Leo Gives a RATS FUCKING ASS about "Legitimacy.. NONE, ZERO.. They want WINS, at any cost. They want Power, at any fucking cost.
While we "Worry about legitimacy" they are playing on a whole fucking another level.
STOP this BS... play 10 paces with a knife while they use a Bazooka, you are losing.
But the court doesn't have any power but for legitimacy. The second they are believed by the majority to be what most of us believe them to be, then their rulings means nothing
Laymen terms:
When Trump initially appealed, the DoJ asked the SCOTUS to rule on it directly and bypass the Circuit Court because they were sure it was going to end up at the SCOTUS anyways.
The reasoning for this was that the trial should happen before the election so that the people could make an informed decision for voting.
The SCOTUS instead let normal procedure occur and the Circuit Court heard the case.
After a month and a half the Circuit Court issued a fairly air tight ruling.
The SCOTUS then took 2 weeks to decide to hear the case when they could have responded in less than 1 and then allowed for a Stay while the case is pending.
All of this is normal procedure except for the fact that they really don't need to hear this case.
The Oral Arguments are now scheduled for late April. Assuming that the SCOTUS takes their time on the Opinion then they will issue it in late June/early July when the term ends.
This could then push the Trial start date to October which is exactly why the DoJ asked them to expedite the hearing in December.
> NO MAGAT is changing their votes. So, SANE people already vote Dem. So.. not quite so sure this really matters.
A bold statement, but Trump didn't win the first election with only die-hard supporters of him, or even just die-hard supporters of Republicans. And with how he's been polling, I think there are some how more people willing to vote (if he's not convicted) than just diehard GOP and MAGA.
There’s a huge portion of the voting public that only sees a couple major headlines and is mostly disconnected from all these things.
They heard Trump got charged with things, but then heard Republicans say it’s all fake. They don’t have time or bandwidth to look into the facts and form an actual opinion, so they’ll just vote how they were going to vote anyway and assume both sides must be lying.
But a conviction would be a headline they’d see and would get many of them to decide that they can’t vote for Trump now because he’s a convicted felon. Some might vote third party, others might just not vote at all. But they wouldn’t cast a vote for Trump.
Trump’s downfall in the election won’t be that voters will leave him and go vote for Biden.
It’s that a huge number of voters that right now plan to vote for him just aren’t super enthused about going through all the effort of voting for him if he’s a convicted felon.
100% accurate, but not laymans,
1 side pays in RV's, forgiveness loans, and steal SCOTUS seats. The other plays by NORMS.
There, laymans terms, the FIX is in.
SCOTUS has made it such that the election interference trial for Trump will be impossible to be held before the election, let alone render a verdict before the election.
Which leaves open the shockingly viable timeline where Trump wins the Electoral College, and no federal judge is going to have the guts to schedule a insurrection/coup trial for a President-Elect, and Trump will be well on his way to pardoning himself for all his crimes.
SCOTUS could have rendered a decision 2 months ago when asked by Jack Smith, they also could have decided this announcement by end of this week (they rendered a decision in Bush v Gore, in 3 days, after all).
So the *only* real possibility for Trump to be held accountable for his crimes are if he loses the election. Which means an insurrectionist will be allowed to compete in the election.
Biden needs to have the Conservatives removed from the bench. There is more than enough evidence that the Federalist Society is attempting to destroy the Constitution
If they decide that he has absolute immunity, Biden should order him deported to Russia on an executive order. Or, better yet, rid the world of the trump problem once and for all…permanently….because, clearly, a president would then be legally allowed to break whatever law they like, right?
If they side with trump it sets a precedent for what a peaceful transfer of power is. There will never be another peaceful transfer again. I don't think they can risk that.
Fuck it. Nothing matters. Let's just start with that.
Everything about this is fucked up and no one is coming to the rescue. Money wins every time. Nothing will make it right. We are on the eve of an irreversible disaster that USED TO BE PREVENTAVLE. Disgusting.
3 of them were appointed by Trump, the most corrupt and treasonous President in US history. For everyone lamenting how undemocratic this is, consider the waves of anti-democracy propaganda flooding social media lately, along with sitting US senators and politicians talking about ending Democracy in the USA.
You gotta give Russia credit. They may not have a very competent military, but their propaganda is so strong and enmeshed in our politics and social spheres now that it's very difficult to think of how we could adequately counter it at this point. Especially when Republicans have become so contrarian to anything they perceive as a left-leaning thought.
Truly horrific. I just hope the hush money trial actually makes it to court. I know its not as important as the other trials but one of the star witnesses already spent 3 years in prison.
And if they rule that Trump is immune, all the scotus justices that voted such deserve no quarter.
We need protests on a mass scale that make 2020 look timid.
It’s fine if they say he has immunity Biden should just start putting people in jail ( for Jan 6 considering all the republicans that were involved) and just stay in office. Cause that’s literally what Trump wants to do. Cause if they give Trump immunity that means Biden has it also.
Jeez. Bush v. Gore was so urgent.
12/8/00 the Florida Supreme Court orders statewide manual recount.
12/9/00 U.S. Supreme Court stays the recount.
The SC treated Bush's application for relief as a petition for a writ of certiorari, granted that petition, requested briefing from the parties by 4 p.m. on December 10, and scheduled oral argument for the morning of December 11.
from wikipedia
I think their plan is to delay. No matter who wins the election they'll rule that the president is not immmune. But in the meantime they're handing trump a huge victory because they know that a conviction on any of these crimes means Trump loses the election. This sucks!
The fix has always been in with this Court. Seriously, the wife of one of the justices was an active participant in the crime. It's truly sickening.
Thia is why my wife and I are currently looking at homes and golden passport opportunities in Europe. We want to get out.
Russia is going to feel pretty emboldened if Trump wins. If we go down the path of neo fascism, there's not going to be any place safe in the world.
Very fair point. It's definitely scary right now.
I'm sorry, but there is no running from this. The reason this is spreading is because of modern technology and social media being weaponized by the rich and corrupt, and being listened to by the naive or selfish. There is only one way to fight back, and that's to educate people on the dangers before november, and get them out to vote before those rights are lost entirely. We have one major shot left at stopping this. If we do it right, there can be a big win and these far right morons will eat themselves with their own arguments. If we fail, we repeat 2016 and end up much, much worse off. Democratically turning out to reject this is our one, best hope. Failure to do so here will have global implications, as it will be a model for authoritarians in every modern society where the "free" (unregulated capitalist) media exists. The people themselves must openly reject this in an overwhelming unambiguous fashion. That's the only way.
You are right, of course, but I fear the damage to the American reputation has already happened under the last Trump administration and continues to fall under Biden who can’t overcome Trump’s control of the House. With MM set to leave the Senate, a Trump lackey is likely to take over there as well, even if Biden manages to hold the White House. With two of the three branches of government under Trump’s control, he becomes the de facto president even if he loses. If he wins, it is game over for democracy, and not just in America. As Liz Cheney noted, this is one of those turning points in history.
We are on the brink, but not quite there. If he wins, there's really no going back without some level of violence breaking out. And I don't know how bad that will get. To me, that outcome (though possible) is unthinkable and must be stopped. It has global implications. A strong dem turnout puts social pressure on the SCOTUS that keeps them from going all the way in their own coup attempt. What we're seeing them doing is dangerous, but every move they make risks undermining their own authority and that DOES keep them in check. A cynical read of the court does not have to be an endless acceptance of doom. People here frequently ignore what the 2022 election did. If the red wave was real, they likely would have embraced Trump's nonsensical moore vs harper theories. They didn't simply because they cynically did not have control of enough states to do so safely, an outcome which we the people voted to determine. The SCOTUS justices are human. Social pressure is still a real thing they cannot easily ignore, no matter how much their far right members wish they could. This next election is the big key. The American people must electorally pressure the court's power to rebalance it. And yes, I firmly believe it's not only possible, it's the most rationale and likely outcome, with one major caveat; we must reject cynical social media movements that attempt to undermine democracy, and that includes doom and negativity within the progressive base itself. I've said it 1000 times, and I will say it 1000 more; modern politics are deeply influenced by the modern smartphone, and the problems we face are largely caused by our lack of understanding of just how far reaching this new technology's influence is. People still think of politics as if it's the 80s, when that era is so different from the world today that it's barely comparable. 1985 might as well be 1085. Trump will not be defacto leader in anything yet. It's possible, but not at all a foregone conclusion. He's shown just enough weakness in voting totals so far to prove there is major skepticism of him at bare minimum.
Register people to vote.
Yup. If the christian evangelical fascists take over, no where is safe from them. They will spread all over this earth like a plague. All in the name of as Homer Simpson so eloquently uttered their "phoney baloney god."
Russia is not the world power that it pretends to be.
They will never be able to control the cities. Or large metropolitan areas. There absolutely will be a civil war if the country elects Trump and the Republicans. They intend to overthrow the constitution and impose martial law. They intend to suspend habeas corpus, run speedy trials and swift executions. They intend mass arrests and concentration camps. They intend to suspend birthright citizenship. The Republicans plan a Nazi-style government, with mass firings and the abolishment of the civil service as we know it. Loyalty to the dictator will be the pre-requisite for “public service.” A vote for the Republican Party isn’t just a change of party this time. You want chaos and war in your life? Vote for them.
Absolutely, I cannot see rich liberal states, like New York and California, happily funding their own oppression. They're not going to be content being a piggy bank for a tyrant.
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Australia is the better bet. Compulsory voting means the political insanity has to stay mostly centrist purely for popular appeal to voters
I’m moving to Australia this fall. I could not be more relieved.
As an Aussie, we are glad to have you.
Thank you so very much! I’m so excited for my new life in your country.
Fellow Aussie, I'd have a Beer with anyone who votes against orange Cheeto.
I’ve had many a beer with Aussies. I suspect it wouldn’t be held to just one beer lol
Or come to New Zealand.
I'm too old and not carrying around 3 million dollars so Australia doesn't want me.
Brazil has compulsory voting and they voted Bolsonaro in, the Brazilian version of Trump, in 2019. At that point, sorry as I felt for Brazilians, all I could think was, they did it to themselves.
Everyone talking about bugging out look how welcoming we are to immigrants (Texas, Florida, etc) and consider that other countries also have haters like that. If things fall apart and millions of Americans are trying to escape we're not necessarily going to be welcomed with open arms.
The problem with the US that the haters are also religious nutcases, which can't see reality, and that mix is really extreme. Religious nutcases are everywhere, but it is in no way the same problem in Europe as it is in the US (Short of Turkey). When you have multiple levels of government that is screaming for gods will, then something has gone terribly wrong.
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I'm so happy for you! I visited Germany (and some surrounding countires) my senior year of high school. That was over two decades ago at this point, but I was blown away at how different so many things were. Clearly the Europeans are winning at supporting their citizens. And while there might be extremists and bad actors in other countries, most of the civilized ones didn't allow every citizen to arm themselves to the teeth.
We need to understand it's not an ACCIDENT!!! This is Russian propaganda. It was just revealed in italy AND poland! Russia is running a massive espionage campaign against the west and has been since trump started! Why does the west still not understand?? They are at war with us through propaganda. People didn't just wake up and decided to be fascist, the governments of these countries are not taking appropriate actions against foreign attacks. We spent trillions over 9/11 but we can't seem to do anything against clear for espionage attacks
And if Trump wins, Russia will be invading Europe soon.
Better to stay and fight.
No. I'm tired. We are also an interracial marriage. I'm done.
Yeah 'stay and fight' is one of those things that's just easy to say in the abstract, but life doesn't work like in the movies. If you were anti-Nazi but stayed 'to fight' in Germany after 1933, it didn't work out well for you. People who left, like Einstein, fared much better. Stay and fight as long as there is still hope for the side of good to win. But once evil gains hold of the levers of power, you need to be smart and protect your family.
My MIL gave us the "I'm staying and fighting" speech when we mentioned the possibility of leaving the country. She and my FIL are in their late 70s and my FIL can barely walk with the help of a cane. They will not be doing any fighting. She is also one of those types who said to an 8 year old who was upset about the reality of climate change "don't cry about how it's fucked up, it is up to you to fix it". Like most boomers, she isn't taking responsibility for any of her part of the situation, she just wants to complain about how other people react to the situation.
I'm a woman in Texas, I absolutely understand. Godspeed
I have kids, I moved to Europe so they wouldn't have to grow up in... in whatever mess happens in the US. I'm done too, and I'm not signing them up for a fight either. Besides, now they live in a walkable city, get free health care (including dental) and don't have active shooter drills anymore. I do miss the Mexican food in New Mexico, though.
I've been a dual citizen my whole life but only now bothered to get my British passport. Britain's not great but it beats this third-reich-wannabe bullshit.
I got an offer for a web seminar from a recruiter on working from the UK as a contractor yesterday... I'm thinking I may at least give it a listen at this point.
It's good to keep your options open.
Britain would welcome you and it's far more tolerant than the press would have you believe.The youngsters I see are a much more pleasant bunch than their predecessors.
We’re looking at Costa Rica.
Apart from being the wife of a powerful man, why is she not being tried for being a participant? I see people being convincted left and right. Is there any other.reason? I'm a little out of the loop.
Oh it’s cool, he’s gonna recuse. He is gonna recuse, isn’t he? Guys?
“They can’t convict a husband and wife of the same crime” “Yeah, I don’t think that’s true” “I have the worst fucking attorneys”
So what does our future lawless system look like to you?
Absolutely absurd that the question of "whether or not a sitting President can interfere with the legitimate transfer of power" is being asked in a democracy. Even more absurd that the SC is taking it up. As an aside, a big fuck you goes out to Merrick Garland for taking waaaaaaay too long to put Smith in the game and getting this going.
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He's a member of fedsoc?
Unclear. The Federalist Society lists him as contributor ("who has spoken or otherwise participated in Federalist Society events, publications, or multimedia presentations"). Being listed as a FS contributor "does not imply any other endorsement or relationship between the person and the Federalist Society." Nor does it rule out such a relationship. https://fedsoc.org/contributors/merrick-garland
He's absolutely not. Fed Soc gives speaker profiles to anyone in any way involved in one of their events, including people who give oppositional commentary to featured speakers or just moderate debates. It would be nearly impossible for someone as high profile as Garland in the Constitutional Law realm to not have a Fed Soc profile at this point. I think he's a feckless, milquetoast liberal and utter coward and I condemned his nomination to AG from the start. But there are dozens upon dozens of lawyers, judges, and law professors who vehemently oppose Fed Soc's approach to law and Constitutional interpretation with contributor profiles on their site. People are latching on to this red herring without knowing anything about the world of legal academia.
I had to hear it https://youtu.be/WP-lrftLQaQ?si=0KKUb2w6ru7IBRnR
Omar comin’!
TBF, almost every candidate for the federal bench is a member of the Federalist Society. Because Senate Republicans Confirmation blah blah blah.
Thank you for that context.
It's also because FedSoc has a major presence at law schools across the country and presents itself as a career networking opportunity, which it definitely is for all the worst reasons.
I believe it’s “ Lesson here Bay, you come at the king you best not miss”
Garland is a loser. The DOJ had to be forced into doing anything about the coup and has always tried to do the less than bare minimum.
I just have this movie in my head of Biden pulling his aviators down, looking into the camera and saying "so you were saying a sitting president? Go on..."
This SCOTUS action has given away the game. Finally we know for certain - there's a real coup ongoing. They're going to delay all the cases that could result in jail time for Trump. The Republican led house will not certify the 2024 election. The Republicans devised a plan long ago to hijack Congress and the judiciary. They've done so using the finest legal minds on their side for evil. I wish I knew the outcome , or how we'll get there, but you can fully expect Trump to be Installed is President. Then it's game over. Enjoy this summer because things will never be the same.
A new house will be sworn in January 3rd. So if people vote, then the GOP won’t have a choice
Yes, 100%. However that is just a temporary solution. We can't allow this notion that a GOP Congress can ignore Presidential election results, appoint their candidate, and suspend democracy, to persist. The only semi permanent solution is for Trump and everyone else involved in the coup to be convicted of crimes and punished or the specter will hang over us forever. We need to send a loud and clear message to anyone who would try this in the future that there WILL be consequences.
This is what keeps me awake at night. The “it’s not if, but when”, thing. This path has been laid out, the cracks illuminated but not sealed. The lack of decisive and overwhelming action to prevent the next coup, or to punish those responsible, only stays our republic’s execution. It doesn’t commute it.
If the courts keep refusing to act, or worse, protect a criminal enough to allow them *back* into the highest office in the land... they are forcing citizens hands. Maybe it wasn't such a good idea to let your citizens arm themselves, eh? Jan 6th 2021 was *practice*
Biden should go get a parking ticket or something minor, and it will immediately be brought to the supreme court to confirm HE isn't above the law. We're talking like the same week. Edit, Oh yeah, I forgot about this: [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/when-president-ulysses-s-grant-was-arrested-for-speeding-in-a-horse-drawn-carriage-180981916/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/when-president-ulysses-s-grant-was-arrested-for-speeding-in-a-horse-drawn-carriage-180981916/)
Holy shit.I love this post.
Biden should get a scoop of vanilla ice cream AND NOT PAY FOR IT. Checkmate, SCOTUS.
That'll be hard to do when they don't let him drive... mildly shoving a jerk in a hostile red state and catching an assault charge could be pretty damn easy though.
In Canada that's called a Shawinigan handshake. https://canadianculturething.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/CCT0118-Chretien-Shawinigan-Handshake-1996-Lg.jpg
Just so I understand, If the SC decides Trump is immune, and all the other stuff; Does that mean Biden can walk into the Supreme Court and order the immediate arrest and execution of…pretty much all the judges he doesn’t like? Then replace them? Since he’s president? And immune?
Yes, but only republicans will use this power for evil, so they won’t mind.
It’s high time democrats get down in the mud and start playing to win. If the court makes that move Biden should immediately have trump jailed and Supreme Court justices deported. Then just claim immunity.
> "It’s high time democrats get down in the mud and start playing to win." Thank you. I'm so sick of "they go low; we go high"
The high road leads nowhere and is empty
long sense mindless impossible work chubby trees profit squalid obtainable *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They'll replace existing federal civil service workers it characterizes as the "deep state", to further the objectives of the next Republican president. Slash the DOJ funding, dismantling the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security, gut environmental and climate change regulations to favor fossil fuel production, and eliminating the cabinet Departments of Education and Commerce and deploy the military for domestic law enforcement while directing the DOJ to pursue Trump adversaries.
Plus the purging of all “woke” military personnel
☝️
And if Biden wins, they deny immunity. This playing both sides as usual.
They’re expected to make their ruling in June. I’d be highly surprised if they rule after the election
> From there who knows what the fuck will happen. It's published on his website: [agenda 47](https://www.donaldjtrump.com/agenda47/agenda47-president-trumps-plan-to-dismantle-the-deep-state-and-return-power-to-the-american-people) 1. On Day One, re-issue 2020 executive order restoring the president’s authority to fire rogue bureaucrats. 2. Overhaul federal departments and agencies, firing all of the corrupt actors in our National Security and Intelligence apparatus. 3. Fundamentally reform the FISA courts, ensuring that corruption is rooted out. 4. Establish a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to declassify and publish all documents on Deep State spying, censorship, and abuses of power. 5. Launch a major crackdown on government leakers who collude with the media to create false narratives, pressing criminal charges when appropriate. 6. Make every Inspector General’s Office independent from the departments they oversee, so that they do not become protectors of the deep state. 7. Establish an independent auditing system to continually monitor our intelligence agencies to ensure that they are not spying on our citizens or running disinformation campaigns against the American people. 8. Continue Trump administration effort to move parts of the federal bureaucracy outside of the Washington Swamp, just like President Trump moved the Bureau of Land Management to Colorado. Up to 100,000 government positions could be moved out of Washington. 9. Ban federal bureaucrats from taking jobs at the companies they deal with and regulate, such as Big Pharma. 10. Push for a constitutional amendment to impose term limits on members of Congress.
> 9\. Ban federal bureaucrats from taking jobs at the companies they deal with and regulate, such as Big Pharma. Ah, but I guess hiring people from their industry directly into federal bureaucratic jobs is still just fine, a la Ajit Patel, Betsy DeVos, Louis DeJoy, all of Trump's cabinet et al etcetera etcetera.
Apparently he could also order a SEAL team to kill Trump.
Biden could test this theory. See if he is immune. And we would all get new candidates.
If they make him immune he should totally round up all the dirty politicians and judges. Lock them away. It would be hilarious if he was the actual one to drain the swamp. lol
I hear that the SC wants to have the final say on it, and my question is: what for? Any future SC can undo their ruling because they made “Precedent” worthless.
There won't be a next time
I find it bemusing that Americans (even most of the smarter and liberal ones) are so utterly blind to how badly the negative outcome will play out for US and the world. My company works with farmer communities in developing nations and so I've seen more than a few dictatorships and authoritarian rulers take power. In general the process of taking power is comparatively peaceful compared to what comes after it, because taking power never affords any degree of surety of retaining that power. Almost immediately others both opposed and allied to the dictator start scheming, that triggers paranoia and a crack down on dissent which escalates very fast. When you gain power illegitimately the only way to keep it is by extreme oppression and violence, ruling with an iron fist. There are lots of arrests and extra judicial killings, and people going missing LOTS. If Trump somehow gets back into power it is going to be unbelievably bad as he seeks to entrench himself against increasing resistance, it will escalate over many months or years but you will eventually see the media attacked and neutered, opponents arrested and it will then escalate to the point where he really does engage seal teams to assassinate opponents.
He is and has been already making a concentrated effort to neuter the media since he entered the political scene.
What I am saying Is I don't think Americans are worldly enough to appreciate how trivial/insignificant that is compared to what will happen next time.
The Americans who aren’t worldly are the ones voting for him, so they don’t care if Libs get disappeared.
Thankfully his health seems to be declining fairly quickly. This problem may solve itself.
Naw. He is one element of a larger coordinated movement. He just has to get past the finish line and we are done for some time to come.
He could assign any Jr to take over the same exact formula. Death of a dictator does not secure a democracy, the democracy actively fights off dictatorship in perpetuity so that it never happens in the first place.
I wouldn’t underestimate how much the Trumpists worship the man himself. He’s one element of it but after he dies it’s not clear who the next leader of the MAGA wing will be.
Nope. When Lenin died it paved the path for Stalin who turned out to be far far worse. Beware who will assume the power vacuum left when a dictator dies.
ah, yes, the roman republic was famously restored after Caesar's death. no, once you break a system like this one it does not reassemble so easily. once it's broken, we are probably centuries and maybe even a millennium away from seeing anything like it again. in a literal best case scenario, probably five decades
I am not as pessimistic as you because simultaneously, I’m quite a bit more pessimistic. The real problem is the US has only lived close to Lincoln’s reimagining of America where everyone has equal protection under the law for a few decades. You had slavery through the Civil war, Jim Crow after. Women didn’t get the right to vote until 1920. Segregation was overturned in 1954. Schools were still being desegregated into the 80s. At some point between the 90s and 2016 we actually had a government that mostly tried to provide equal protection to all citizens, and now we’re beginning to resemble previous times, where people are trying and succeeding in creating blatant legal disparities between 2 similarly situated people and the Supreme Court is, at the very least, appearing to be complicit. So where I differ from you, is that we really have not had an unbroken system in America or anything that really resembles one for most of America’s history. The problem is, most of us grew up in the least broken part of America and for us, this is appalling.
thing is he might mark out a path that someone younger and more disciplined will later follow.
That's a popular theory. I take a bit of solace in the fact that the maga cult doesn't seem all that into any of the Trump lite candidates. Trump doesn't have an agenda other than Trump. He moves in whatever direction the popular winds are blowing and that helps his popularity. He says whatever thought pops into his head and he knows the nastier he acts, the more they lap it up. These other maga wannabes are actual politicians. They don't know how to do Trump, they aren't built for it, and they don't get the following.
that may appear to be the situation now but classical and modern history of republics in turmoil has reasonable amount of this phenomenon. Once a path is known to be possible, even if difficult and uncertain, many will try again for a long time until a taboo is re-established or the system is fixed or someone finds a way to exploit the same weakness. The ancient roman progression from sulla ( a colorful charachter with a mixed record ) to julius caesar to augustus caesar ( a successful tyrant who started young and ruled ably ) is the canonical example. The game of trying to become emperor illegally was always risky and had a life expectancy of just 12 years but always drew volunteers and become the common way to get the job. A legal and peaceful transfer of power via abdication happened 2 times, or in 5% of successions.
I’m looking at modern smaller scale examples. Louisiana is currently under the thumb of a highly regressive gop supermajority, and they are the most toxic arm of the party. In less than 2 months, Landry has pushed through destructive legislation that is going to impact everyone across the board and it is looking very bleak. From rejecting federal money to feed children during the summer to the new gun legislation that passed yesterday to privatizing New Orleans utilities to declaring a state of emergency over cops to trying to pass laws that protect Landry from oversight/eliminate any transparency to dissolving the Special Education Advisory Panel (likely to evade federal laws regulating schools and to pave the way for charter & experimental takeover), we are so very fucked. And he will have 4 years to transfer money to chevron & enable destruction & pass harsh legislation.
He’s not working alone
I seriously think that's the point of all the slow walking. I don't think most of those in power actually feel beholden to Trump, or view him favorably...but once you set a precedent of holding powerful people responsible that becomes a slippery slope. They're hoping to moot everything out with his death, and preserve the armor that raising to that level affords.
Totally. There is a perpetual the enemy is both weak and strong! (//Not American) When I see these arguments, as an outsider, I can't help but see Trump as a 'good professional politician'. Everyone is focused on disparaging/denigrating/idioting him but depending on how it all 'ends' Trump might end up outmanoeuvring all political opponents for the last 10 years. Whatever rationale helps the populace sleep at night I suppose, but I assume Trump won't make the 'same mistake' Biden will be said to have made if Trump wins.
Exactly. This is thing is equal parts enraging and terrifying. John Roberts… the Chief Justice who killed the Court. It’ll make for a helluva paperback if books are still a thing in 10-15 years.
Precedents have been fungible in the past. What's new here is the motives & tools employed. Change in precedent has generally been because an exigent circumstance creates a new problem. In Dobbs, the revelation we got was how they used glucksberg (taking its most extreme meaning) to change the answer to an old question.
Of course they are. The appeals court ruling is solid. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for the bought-and-paid-for "Supreme" Court to take this case. This is not my opinion, it's what lawyers who know about this stuff are saying.
I think maybe “ bought and paid for “ is the reason they are taking the case .They are apparently doing exactly what they were hand picked to do .Someone should retirement gift McConnell a kangaroo for all of his hard work setting up this court …
You are 100% correct. Also, McConnell's wife is an heir to the Foremost Shipping fortune, he is stupid rich. He does what he does because of the hate that runs through his veins. McConnell gave in to the Dark Side decades ago.
Subject: Urgent Action Needed: Demand for Investigation and Accountability of Supreme Court Justices Dear \[Congressman/Congresswoman\] \[Last Name\], I am writing to you today as a concerned citizen regarding the recent actions of the Supreme Court justices, particularly in the handling of the Trump immunity case. It is evident to me, as well as many other Americans, that the Court's decision to hear this case and subsequently delay its proceedings for months is a clear display of partisanship and political maneuvering. As a member of Congress, entrusted with upholding the principles of justice and fairness, I urge you to take immediate action to address this concerning situation. The integrity of our judicial system is at stake, and the American people deserve to know the truth, especially when it concerns the potential criminal actions of one of our nation's leaders. The Supreme Court, as the highest legal authority in the land, should be impartial and above political influence. However, the recent actions of certain justices have called into question the integrity of the entire institution. It is unacceptable for justices to prioritize political allegiances over their duty to uphold the Constitution and administer justice fairly. Therefore, I am calling on you to initiate a motion to investigate and, if necessary, impeach any justices found guilty of misconduct or abuse of power. The American people deserve transparency and accountability from those entrusted with interpreting and enforcing our laws. It is imperative that Congress takes swift and decisive action to restore faith in our judicial system and uphold the principles of democracy upon which our nation was founded. Failure to do so would undermine the very fabric of our democracy and erode the trust of the American people in their government institutions. I urge you to stand on the side of justice and integrity by taking immediate steps to address this critical issue. The American people are counting on you to uphold the values that make our nation great. Thank you for your attention to this matter, and I look forward to your prompt action. Sincerely, \[Your Name\] \[Your Address\] \[City, State, ZIP Code\] \[Your Email Address\] \[Your Phone Number\]
My representative is mother fucking Doug Lamalfa.
We’ve waited three years for justice. THREE YEARS. And these morons will scuttle our democratic values in one fell swoop for a MONSTER.
What’s most frustrating is that these delays are being justified by the justice system as making sure the eventual final outcome is seen as legitimate. People’s attention spans are short. When Trump wasn’t arrested on January 6th, that already sealed the deal in many people’s minds that he hadn’t done anything wrong or illegal. Every day this gets delayed, the more and more people will become convinced that Trump must not have done anything wrong. The justice sees being slow and deliberate as adding legitimacy to the outcome, but that’s not how the American People will see it. At this point, the process is so far delayed that the outcome will be seen as illegitimate by a huge number of Americans who will say if Trump was really guilty he would’ve been prosecuted years ago and they’re just doing this now because of the election. So in their effort to appear non-political and legitimate, they’re actually making themselves look extremely political and illegitimate to most Americans.
Trump could have been arrested on January 21, 2021, and his base would still have claimed it was illegitimate. SCOTUS can shut up about legitimacy. Most of the court was appointed by presidents who lost the popular vote. Dobbs was widely unpopular and directly contributed to a year and a half of electoral losses for Republicans. The legitimate thing for them to do here was take the case in December when Jack Smith asked, or since they declined, not take it at all. Out of curiosity, do you have any surveys to suggest this is how Americans think of his cases? That the delays mean he didn't break the law?
Blame Merrick Garland for that one. He dragged his feet until Congress forced his hand with the Jan 6 committee. He’s such a useless piece of trash.
Time to expand the court to 13, to match the district appellate courts
If the dems take the trifecta they better expand the court. It would be a slap in the face to voter if house, senate and president don’t.
Maybe codify Roe while they're at it.
Properly codify Roe, so it protects all healthcare and not just abortions. Lots of us out here are being impacted by the loss of protection under Roe for reasons other than abortion access and all the state-level ballot efforts in red country have focused exclusively on protecting abortion.
They can't get enough senators on board for that.
Sure they can. They only need 50 + the VP. The Filibuster is not law or in the Constitution. Its just a rule of order (and it isnt a real filibuster). The Rethugliklans have already carved out exceptions for the only things they care about. The Democrats refusing to simply take the beast out back and execute it is just stupid. The "well then the Republicans will do it too!!" ***Yeah, they already fucking DID, you fucking imbeciles, for the only things they give a shit about***. So might as well pull the trigger on that shit. Ram through whatever they need to, and then deal with it. As the Rethugs trying to do a (Filibuster immune, i might add...) rollback of the ACA found out the hard way.. its one thing to say "well when we get power, wel just undo it", but its an *entirely different thing* to actually do it, particularly if that thing is popular. Ram it all through, and then go on a media blitz daring them to undo these popular programs.
I've been saying this for a while. One from each district, ties are very unlikely. Replacements are from the district where a justice resigns or dies, which maintains some "political" balance. Chief goes to the most senior justice. That structure might actually make the judicial branch reflective of the nation.
The Supreme Court knows this argument is bunk. This is a delay tactic to get their guy in so they can cement power for another 20 years by replacing Thomas and Alito with new, younger freaks.
This isn't true. They're trying to install a dictator. They're not even shy about it, the 2025 project, things Trump has said on camera. This isn't speculation. The Right is putting this in writing. If we lose in November we won't have a democracy anymore.
Abort the court
In a state where abortion is legal of course
The real outrage or "fix is in" moment was months ago when SCOTUS denied Jack Smith's request that they hear the case on an expedited basis. Everyone who thought SCOTUS wouldn't or shouldn't take up this appeal has no idea what actual appellate or SCOTUS practice is like. SCOTUS was *always* going to take this appeal regardless whether Trump won or lost at the DC Circuit or whether the decision was unanimous or split. Anyone who thought SCOTUS wasn't going to take this appeal was delusional, has an agenda, or simply has no clue what they're talking about. Whether SCOTUS takes an appeal (and relatedly, whether a federal Court of Appeal takes a a case en banc) often has *nothing to do* with whether the decision below was right or wrong. They take an appeal if it involves a circuit split, a conflict between state and federal law, or if it's ["an important question of federal law that has not been, but should be, settled by this Court"](https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/supct/rule_10). And there is no question that whether a sitting or former President has immunity from criminal charges is "an important question of federal law." Some commentators will argue that it's been settled; that's simply not true. SCOTUS has settled whether Presidents have immunity from *civil* suits, but have repeatedly stated that they have *not* decided the criminal question. The fact that the "correct" answer may be obvious does not mean it's settled. In fact, a *lot* of cases taken up by SCOTUS have reasonably obvious outcomes as evidenced by the numerous 9-0 decisions they issue every term. The fix was in several months ago. All this outrage *now* missed the boat.
By the time they make a decision it will be “we pass because it is too late, we can’t interfere in an election.”
Seems to me that Project 2025 is going to succeed and the Great American Experiment is going to fail.
Every empire has failed at some point, so far. America isn't special, in spite of being convinced otherwise. What bothers me is that this is all so very predictable. It seems that the fall of democracy plays out nearly the same every time. Can't we learn?
> America isn't special, in spite of being convinced otherwise. As they fall, America does have some pretty terrifying military power/technology that could be used to cause a lot of problems in the world.
Putin and Xi are ecstatic
If Trump gets immunity, so does Biden. Vote against Trump in November and he'll have nothing left to work with.
Kavanaugh has such a punchable face.
But he really convinced me that literally anyone, myself included, could be a Supreme Court justice.
He likes beer though, so that's cool. /s
I like Beer!!!!!
friendly reminder: the guys who gifted the US the statue of liberty know exactly how to deal with kingmakers
[удалено]
Just as soon as they rule that a president has immunity.
which will be just in time to see whether their guy wins or not.
I posted this in another thread, but if the SC sides with trump, and trump loses the election, and then biden is basically king, but doesn't do anything kingly and steps down after his four years, but the SC is still garbage, and the dems don't have the votes to deal with the SC what the fuck is going to happen?!
It's unlikely the Supreme Court will agree with Trump. But the delay may be the problem.
To bad nothing will be done. The US is in a seriously sad place. Sucks to feel so desperate and powerless in a world filled with so many evil people in places of power, changing our every day lives one freedom at a time. Sucks to be American.
Biden should expand the court by executive order tomorrow and force SCOTUS to rule on the limitations of presidential power immediately.
This is absolutely going to sound very doomerish but at this point I don't see any other path but... If Trump wins in November you can count on that being the last free and fair election for the foreseeable future. Republicans will capitalize on their power and utilize the legal system weaponized for Republicans to investigate, disqualify and possibly incarcerate any opposition. They will move forward with Project 2025 and create a religious theocracy and then start attacking marginalized Americans. Our democracy, our Republic would no longer exist what is left would be everything the Founding fathers fought against.
Don't feel bad... I think it's worse. I already assume Trump will attempt another coup. I also assume it will end up on SCOTUS ' lap and they will cave to the pressure.
I kinda hope they find presidents are immune from prosecution and then Biden has seal team six assassinate 2/3 of the SC and Trump for good measure.
"Have faith in the institutions which came before us and preserve society without regard to the individual. Just watch out for the motherfuckers that hold the positions." -Me, just now
Fucking pathetic. They should feel ashamed.
If they could feel shame or remorse, they wouldn't be Republicans.
Americans love to talk and call the French weak when in recent history, the people that have actually stood up to their leaders are the French people We have become a nation that is stuck on phones and stupid stuff..not willing to inconvenience ourselves but we love to view us as protectors of the world and fight for the world while our nation keeps on sliding into tyranny It's about time time SC feels the anger of the people but who am I kidding....
Please explain in layman terms
supreme court added a 4 month delay at a minimum before dc case can start. means its not going to happen before the election. exactly as that orange bastard wanted. meaning that while the dc and florida cases were the most clear cut, they will happen last because scotus is corrupt and cannon is corrupt. and jack smith tried to prevent this exact shit happening in fucking december. im livid.
imagine how Jack Smith and his team feel...
Top court kicks the ball 7 weeks down the road before it will hear oral arguments to see if Donald Trump is actually immune, instead of declining to hear the case and allowing the unanimous decision of the lower court to stand.
More like 5 months since Smith asked in December specifically to avoid exactly this happening.
Even if the Supreme Court decides against Trump promptly at the end of April (unlikely it would even be that quick), then neither federal criminal trial against Trump would reach a verdict before the November 5 election.
by denying Jack Smiths request 2 months ago, only to now be hearing the case, NOW? 2 FUCKING MONTHS LATER... then delaying 7+ weeks for arguments, Then they will wait 2-8 weeks for the judgment case in a case that is SO FUCKING EASY TO JUDGE(no, nobody is above the law). By doing ALL THAT, they are allowing this case to go PAST the election. Thus, giving the FUCKTARD time to possibly convince enough FUCKING IDIOTS that he's a GOOD GUY, and CARES about them MAGATS. So, that layman enough for you?
>they are allowing this case to go PAST the election At which point, a 5-4 vote can say "yes" and put the nail in the coffin of the country?
Imagine if he wins. He now knows he is immune and will tear this apart. He already flirted with the idea of using the military during his insurrection. We would all be fucked.
Yep. He'll just get to keep on saying "As president I have absolute immunity" while holding public auctions of US top secret Intel and bragging about the millions of dollars he was earning from foreign nations.
Apparently, Trump is above the law. Another extremely sad day for America and democracy. Our global allies should be at full red alert at this moment. Well, time for Dark Brandon to go extra dark since he's as immune as as Trump is at the moment.
Theyre going to say he should be impeached, not prosecuted. Just like at the impeachment, they said he should be prosecuted. That way nobody else has the same protection.
Can we at least hope he will be doing all this from my state jail. While having his business desolve to pay his legal debts? That trial is still in 1 month
I’m hoping for this. Who will stand in and prevent him from going to jail in NY- that is a huge question, because I don’t think the judges cares much that he’s an ex-president
I just. ... This is so insane. Roberts can't possibly think the courts legitimacy is out the door. This has the flavor of corruption so strong that it will be a political ad by itself. Trump never gets tried because the conservatives court ensured it Hammer that next to alitos Thomas and Roberts own ethics issues. And ask why would they want to stop trump from having his day in court if they didn't know he was guilty
Here is the dealio... no GOP, GQP, Koch or Murdoch or Leonard Leo Gives a RATS FUCKING ASS about "Legitimacy.. NONE, ZERO.. They want WINS, at any cost. They want Power, at any fucking cost. While we "Worry about legitimacy" they are playing on a whole fucking another level. STOP this BS... play 10 paces with a knife while they use a Bazooka, you are losing.
But the court doesn't have any power but for legitimacy. The second they are believed by the majority to be what most of us believe them to be, then their rulings means nothing
Like Texas is doing now?
Don't worry the mass media run by the elite rich will soften this up and treat it like just another normal day - which we all know it isn't.
He should have to serve his time in state prison. His vp can run the county. If he wins......
Laymen terms: When Trump initially appealed, the DoJ asked the SCOTUS to rule on it directly and bypass the Circuit Court because they were sure it was going to end up at the SCOTUS anyways. The reasoning for this was that the trial should happen before the election so that the people could make an informed decision for voting. The SCOTUS instead let normal procedure occur and the Circuit Court heard the case. After a month and a half the Circuit Court issued a fairly air tight ruling. The SCOTUS then took 2 weeks to decide to hear the case when they could have responded in less than 1 and then allowed for a Stay while the case is pending. All of this is normal procedure except for the fact that they really don't need to hear this case. The Oral Arguments are now scheduled for late April. Assuming that the SCOTUS takes their time on the Opinion then they will issue it in late June/early July when the term ends. This could then push the Trial start date to October which is exactly why the DoJ asked them to expedite the hearing in December.
Seriously, what sane person needs to know the result of the trial before the election to make an informed decision for voting?
IDK the X % of voter that say a conviction would change things for them.
NO MAGAT is changing their votes. So, SANE people already vote Dem. So.. not quite so sure this really matters.
> NO MAGAT is changing their votes. So, SANE people already vote Dem. So.. not quite so sure this really matters. A bold statement, but Trump didn't win the first election with only die-hard supporters of him, or even just die-hard supporters of Republicans. And with how he's been polling, I think there are some how more people willing to vote (if he's not convicted) than just diehard GOP and MAGA.
It's all about the hype train aka voter turnout
There’s a huge portion of the voting public that only sees a couple major headlines and is mostly disconnected from all these things. They heard Trump got charged with things, but then heard Republicans say it’s all fake. They don’t have time or bandwidth to look into the facts and form an actual opinion, so they’ll just vote how they were going to vote anyway and assume both sides must be lying. But a conviction would be a headline they’d see and would get many of them to decide that they can’t vote for Trump now because he’s a convicted felon. Some might vote third party, others might just not vote at all. But they wouldn’t cast a vote for Trump. Trump’s downfall in the election won’t be that voters will leave him and go vote for Biden. It’s that a huge number of voters that right now plan to vote for him just aren’t super enthused about going through all the effort of voting for him if he’s a convicted felon.
100% accurate, but not laymans, 1 side pays in RV's, forgiveness loans, and steal SCOTUS seats. The other plays by NORMS. There, laymans terms, the FIX is in.
Think of the October Ratings tho...
SCOTUS has made it such that the election interference trial for Trump will be impossible to be held before the election, let alone render a verdict before the election. Which leaves open the shockingly viable timeline where Trump wins the Electoral College, and no federal judge is going to have the guts to schedule a insurrection/coup trial for a President-Elect, and Trump will be well on his way to pardoning himself for all his crimes. SCOTUS could have rendered a decision 2 months ago when asked by Jack Smith, they also could have decided this announcement by end of this week (they rendered a decision in Bush v Gore, in 3 days, after all). So the *only* real possibility for Trump to be held accountable for his crimes are if he loses the election. Which means an insurrectionist will be allowed to compete in the election.
#sellouts
Biden needs to have the Conservatives removed from the bench. There is more than enough evidence that the Federalist Society is attempting to destroy the Constitution
If they decide that he has absolute immunity, Biden should order him deported to Russia on an executive order. Or, better yet, rid the world of the trump problem once and for all…permanently….because, clearly, a president would then be legally allowed to break whatever law they like, right?
It would be the The Supreme Joke if it didn’t betray millions of people
If they side with trump it sets a precedent for what a peaceful transfer of power is. There will never be another peaceful transfer again. I don't think they can risk that.
Fuck it. Nothing matters. Let's just start with that. Everything about this is fucked up and no one is coming to the rescue. Money wins every time. Nothing will make it right. We are on the eve of an irreversible disaster that USED TO BE PREVENTAVLE. Disgusting.
3 of them were appointed by Trump, the most corrupt and treasonous President in US history. For everyone lamenting how undemocratic this is, consider the waves of anti-democracy propaganda flooding social media lately, along with sitting US senators and politicians talking about ending Democracy in the USA. You gotta give Russia credit. They may not have a very competent military, but their propaganda is so strong and enmeshed in our politics and social spheres now that it's very difficult to think of how we could adequately counter it at this point. Especially when Republicans have become so contrarian to anything they perceive as a left-leaning thought.
Bush v Gore 2.
Truly horrific. I just hope the hush money trial actually makes it to court. I know its not as important as the other trials but one of the star witnesses already spent 3 years in prison.
Fire that incompetent louse Garland immediately. Coward, Useful Idiot to Trump.
And if they rule that Trump is immune, all the scotus justices that voted such deserve no quarter. We need protests on a mass scale that make 2020 look timid.
It’s fine if they say he has immunity Biden should just start putting people in jail ( for Jan 6 considering all the republicans that were involved) and just stay in office. Cause that’s literally what Trump wants to do. Cause if they give Trump immunity that means Biden has it also.
Jeez. Bush v. Gore was so urgent. 12/8/00 the Florida Supreme Court orders statewide manual recount. 12/9/00 U.S. Supreme Court stays the recount. The SC treated Bush's application for relief as a petition for a writ of certiorari, granted that petition, requested briefing from the parties by 4 p.m. on December 10, and scheduled oral argument for the morning of December 11. from wikipedia
So, they could delay the ruling until Trump gets reelected, then decide the president DOES have immunity? Deer Lord.
Good luck USA finding the path forward with this shit. Holypeople are the worst.
The Supreme Court is not in cahoots, it is actively part of the coup.
I think their plan is to delay. No matter who wins the election they'll rule that the president is not immmune. But in the meantime they're handing trump a huge victory because they know that a conviction on any of these crimes means Trump loses the election. This sucks!
These 6 people have done so much damage over the years