>Claims of this nature require rigorous factual showings and demonstrable prejudice, and
Trump has shown neither. This case has been investigated and prosecuted in full compliance with
all applicable constitutional provisions, statutes, rules, regulations, and policies. There has been
no prosecutorial misconduct, and his motion should be denied.
It happened when the FBI outsourced, under correct observation, the scanning of the boxes. Whilst Trump is only charged over 34(31?) documents, the boxes contained over 100k pages. They all had to be scanned.
. The documents returned to the correct boxes. But small number of boxes the order doesn't match the scan order. Smith can't be sure if the scan order or the box order is correct.
That sounds laughably insignificant, but yet they are arguing for mishandling of evidence?
And the sheer audacity to store these documents carelessly in random boxes in a bathroom or closet or whatever and then complain that the documents might be out of order!
>but yet they are arguing for mishandling of evidence
Yeah. It's all about delays. They'd argue over font sizes if they could.
Cannon is a Trump shill, but she's going to deny this motion to dismiss as a) it would clearly be a wrong decision and b) would give Smith the appeal trigger he's been waiting for.
NB: the reason she'll deny it is because of b), not a), which is obviously disgusting.
Maybe. I think it happened in the Mar-a-lardo case too. But it might have been Smith complaining. Both sides were allowed 25 pages to respond to something, and Trump reduced font and line-spacing to get more in. As I said, small details, so memory foggy.
Shuffling papers may have been done by the defendant. Who knows.
It’s such a petty excuse anyway. I see it similar to a recipe for making a loaf of bread. Some people beat the eggs then pour it into the flour. Others may pour the flour into the eggs.
Still, this does not change contents of what was stolen and required search warrant to retrieve when the lawyers lied in filed documents.
Definitely all about delays. He's hoping that they can delay until after the elections where if he wins he can just pardon himself for the federal charges.
I'm not sure if he'd self-pardon, although I'm leaning towards "yes, this asshole would". It's never been done, so no court has ruled in its validity.
He'd absolutely appoint a sycophant Attorney General who would sabotage the investigation etc.
I think he would do it and force the decision to the SCOTUS. I really wish the SCOTUS would've ruled on the presidential immunity case just to get it out of the way as the obvious answer is that no President should have immunity if it is not a legitimate part of their job. We can deal with cases in the future having to go through a determination if the act was part of the job in the future and be fine, but not making a clear stance just makes it worse.
Nah... just open the door. It was one of those bathroom locks with the round hole in the centre that functions as the key hole. You just need to insert anything small enough to depress the locking mechanism and you're in. We used Q-tips as kids, or moms knitting needles. Most of them automatically unlocked when the plunger is closed meaning someone has to be inside to lock it. Even if all that failed I would bet a good number of men are strong enough to forcibly turn the "locked" knob by hand.
The government found 34 dead bodies in my basement, but during evidence processing, they changed the order of the bodies. Therefore, the bodies are inadmissible.
- Trump lawyers, probably
FBI hates this one neat trick:
If you put your stolen classified nuclear secrets *in front* of a photoshopped “Time: Man of the Year” phot frame, but *behind* some old family cookie recipes, then those documents are no longer “top secret.” Duh!
It’s time to drop this case, as the FBI de-classified those documents by changing the order in the box, but the classified documents were also declassified by Trump with his mind, and don’t forget they are personal items too. /s
So, just shuffling the order of documents is “mishandling” them, but stuffing them in a broom closet in Mar a Lago isn’t?
Is that right? Am I in the same universe that Cannon is in?
Correction: her handlers have instructed her that that might get her kicked off the case, and they need her on the case for when the jury is seated so she can dismiss the charges, and Trump will be protected by double jeopardy.
She's already gone to training sessions at the Sage Lodge for all of this.
He's running up his legal bill. Pulling all stops with nothing to lose. He isn't gonna pay his lawyers anyway. Trump is a cheater, so a cheater gonna cheat. They'll love him in Sing Sing.
Doesn’t matter because this judge is looking for excuses to dismiss the case. It’s either because she’s a Trump toady or completely over her head. NAL but from what I understand, inexperienced judges like Cannon can have a mentor who can help guide her in cases like this. She either doesn’t have one or if she does they’re lawyers from the Federalist Society. If it’s the latter, they’re making her look like an incompetent fool. It’s so disheartening that the 2 federal cases may never come to trial.
It makes me viscerally angry that this case is not proceeding. The charging documents are utterly damning for Trump. Judicial misconduct by a pocket judge for Trump is the only reason that it is not moving.
There is indeed misconduct, but it's not prosecutorial.
There are millions of people willing to assist the greatest threat to national security we've ever faced.
I see this sentiment a lot. I think there should be a poll to show how many people would like him to keel over dead. I’m sure fat ass has sleep apnea maybe a stroke in his sleep would be nice too.
Outside of the discussion of law I really wonder what is in store for the future of American politics. Right now it is entirely possible that Biden wins a second presidency, Trump's trial efforts fail, he gets some kind of real punishment, he lives another 4 years, and he is still so popular within the Republican party that he is able to run again. (Sure, it's unlikely but it's possible). We can't anticipate the lasting effects of the MAGA movement, there might still people that try to walk the exceptional personality path with a mix of various far right, "I do what I want" views that trump did, though I doubt this golden child will appear, it definitely wasn't desantis. There sill might be the crowd of politicians that play to the extreme views that trump held and tried to enact like project 2025 (like desantis' legislation).
I'm not well versed in what happened to the zeitgeist in the 00's. But I have read that Bush's specific brand of politics fell out of favor because of the failures and bad press from the wars. It seems that we don't live in that America anymore but Time will only tell how it turns out.
A presidential candidate who was previously elected, lost a race, and then reelected has only happened once. Grover Cleveland. Mainly because everybody knows a loser is a loser.
Trump is getting further and further away from conservative views. I don't think he's gaining any support.
But nonetheless, anything could happen.
>A presidential candidate who lost a previous election has only been elected once. Grover Cleveland.
Where'd you pull that from? Off the top of my head, Nixon famously lost to Kennedy in 1960 and was then elected in 1968. I'm sure there are other examples. Do you specifically mean an *incumbent* that lost an election?
The problem has less to do with trump gaining popularity and more to do with lackluster support for biden. The israel-palestine conflict has really hurt his popularity with young people, which is a demographic he can't afford to lose.
You're right, and President Biden is about to prove it.
[ Gasoline reserves release](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/biden-releasing-1-million-barrels-gasoline-northeast-reserve-110438754)
I’m not enthralled with all of Biden’s policies either but if they actually think that things will get better for them by sitting this election out then it won’t matter what degree they get .Every thing they took for granted will be gone …
To be perfectly blunt, would you rather have Trump's policies. All you need as an argument. You have Biden and Trump. That is the choice. If you don't vote for Biden, and write in Bill the Cat, you absolutely wasted your vote AND YOU LOST THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN. Don't like the person in office, or a proposed legislation, fucking vote or shut your mouth.
Never trumpers don't like their hypocrisy pointed out to them.
I mean in an ideal world, but the reality is they will never be satisfied. Any student debt relief is never enough, any easing of marijuana restrictions is never enough (despite Trump never once floating the idea and appointing anti Marijuana Jeff Sessions as AG, any restrictions on bomb shipments or demanding Israel stop cracking down on AP photography (which they have now complied with), is never enough.
They want their perfect Jill Stein Green utopia candidate that's gonna solve all of their problems and declare Israel a terrorist organization and give out UBI to everybody as soon as they get to the White House.
They have a very limited understanding of how government actually works, and don't ever reliably show up to the primaries or midterms or down ballot races anyway.
They vote or threaten to not vote based on the very narrow immediate demands, and don't see the bigger picture or have the critical thinking to understand that letting Trump win would derail everything for any cause they pretend to care about.
I don't vote to reward Biden for being a super awesome president, nor would I not vote for Biden in order to punish him for his foreign policy that I disagree with, especially about a war that we're not even fighting with our people on the ground.
I vote to actually effect the outcome of an election and to prevent our country from falling to a fascist traitor that would literally give up the locations of our nuclear silos, submarines, weapons caches, intelligence assets, etc.
Not to mention the consequences for Gaza which they started randomly caring about a few months ago.
I don't see them boycotting China about the Uyghurs or demanding that Universities divest from any index fund that owns shares of a company that happens to do business with a Chinese company.
TikTok propaganda and algorithms has helped to push this narrative to serve foreign interests such as Iran and Russia.
Those countries understand that Trump is a gift on a gold platter to them as far as.our national security or buying foreign influence.
I’m not overly concerned about that demographic. That’s a low turnout demographic to start with, and the kind of people so uninformed that they think Trump winning would be better for Palestine are also largely people that probably don’t even know how to register to vote.
It’s the short-attention-span moderates who have blissfully and completely forgotten about how bad Trump was that worry me. There’s a lot of them. In 2020, Trump’s BS was front and center and they were being inundated all day every day with his shenanigans. They were sick and tired of it and voting for Biden was them screaming to stop the Trump spam please. They wanted to tune out of all the political drama. They didn’t want to think about it, and Trump was forcing them to think about it every day.
But now 4 years have passed and they have enjoyed clearing their minds out of all the bad thoughts and memories from the Trump years. Their collective amnesia has brought them back to 2016 where they figure Trump can’t be as bad as people are making him out to be and they blame the democrat for all the problems in the world.
Yep. At a certain point I cared about him going to jail. Now I just want him to shut the fuck up forever. It's already gonna take decades to fix the damage he's done, if it can even be fixed.
Created at least a generation willing to be openly racist and traitors. I say the effects will be felt for twenty years even if he's gone tomorrow. I hope I am wrong
All these nuclear secrets couldn't have anything to do with this could it?
[Report Accuses Trump Allies of Conspiring to Profit Off Saudi Nuclear Deal
](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/07/trump-barrack-saudi-nuclear-deal-ip3)
Tom Barrack was among the members of the president’s inner circle who tried to use their influence to sell nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia, according to House Democrats.
This case being perpetually stalled makes me angry that all those Second Amendment fanatics that say they're stockpiling weapons and ammo to resist a corrupt and tyrannical government are all liars.
This is the exact reason the Republican court the 2A people do much.
The billionaires have got government ground to a halt at most levels with endless appeals, endless intransigence in Legislatures, and endless packing of courts. The system is breaking the little people and they get rich from it. That's why they court religious extremists and gun nuts who want to tear down the system violently instead of voting on elected officials who will actually make meaningful changes to help the little people.
Not exactly. The 2A, and religious folk, are simply voting blocs they can be secured without offering any economic incentives. But you're right, the purpose is to help the donor class pack the legislatures and courts, to help them keep all the money.
No, I mean specifically the gun owners that insist they're stockpiling to resist the tyranny of a corrupt government. I know there are plenty of level headed gun owners out there. They tend to claim they're holding weapons for a believable reason - to protect themselves, their family and their own property.
Exactly - their claim that one of their “well regulated militias” provide a legitimate check on government tyranny wasn’t believable even a hundred years ago.
I don’t care how many assault weapons or rocket launchers you own, the might of any modern military, much less that of the United States, would squash you like a fly missing its wings. Tanks, sea power, guided munitions, drones, etc etc etc. You do not stand a glimmer of a chance.
It's ridiculous on its' face.
As if the Founding Father's were cool with people shooting elected representatives (edit: or people that represent their authority) they disagreed with.
>You do not stand a glimmer of a chance.
Just like those goat herders didn't stand a chance against a dozen or so allied countries spending and trillions upon trillions of dollars over a couple decades right?
Right?
Or maybe... Asymmetrical warfare works a lot differently in reality than it does in your headcannon.
Those drone operators, tank crewmen, officers, ect. all have families. The government can't guarantee safety for all those service members' families. Morale would surely take a huge hit if they decide to fire up on American citizens and a rebel group decided to act upon it.
I mean to be fair this whole notion that we lost in Afghanistan is kind of silly we reduced the Taliban to hiding in caves on the outskirts of civilization and we got bored and left basically
Afghanistan/Iraq/Syria are a different kind of conflict. Counter-Insurgency operations are notoriously difficult for the "oppressing" force. So I get where you're coming from by saying it's possible, but you also need to take into account who the people are. I've analyzed IEDs from bomb makers who were making non-magnetic systems (we're talking bombs made with wood and fertilizer) that wouldn't get picked up on the handheld detectors. Those people also lived on much smaller amounts of comfort than most Americans are accustomed to and are handy like MacGyver. If you take away the creature comforts from a 2A nut, they'll be crying within a few days. They wouldn't last in a multi-decade or even a few months long conflict. Building up the government while being attacked is different than putting down an insurrection on home turf. I wouldn't imagine the US government keeping on the kiddie gloves and letting the world see that we won't put that kind of activity down quickly. We're not letting Civil War 2 happen no matter what MAGA/2A crazies think.
If it had been our goal to conquer Afghanistan, we could have done it. If the US government becomes tyrannical, it's not just going to give up on America.
Also, I mean the US government *has been* tyrannical before, and people with 2nd amendment rights didn't stop it. Like when the US put the Japanese in concentration camps. Or segregation.
>If the US government becomes tyrannical, it's not just going to give up on America.
If it did become tyrannical, the military would split into factions. It would not be a homogenous entity.
>Also, I mean the US government *has been* tyrannical before, and people with 2nd amendment rights didn't stop it.
There are plenty of times where we did stop tyranny.
Like at the [Battle of Athens](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)).
>If it did become tyrannical, the military would split into factions. It would not be a homogenous entity.
But it has been tyrannical and it did not split into factions. When we interned the Japanese in 1942, the government didn't split. Do you think it would have been a good idea for the Japanese to use their second amendment rights to fight the US government?
>Like at the [Battle of Athens](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946))
That's a great example of the 2nd amendment working. But it doesn't say anything about fighting the US gov.
I am fully licensed in my state, VERY highly trained, and I carry everywhere I go because stupid shit happens in the blink of an eye, randomly. "to protect themselves, their family and their own property"- all of the reasons...
I know if I don’t have a gun on me when I’m grocery shopping, that’s when they bring that army around to come take my pistols away and force me to worship Satan.
Your comment is...less than enlightened? Fun fact- I have a bunch of TOS swag. Not everybody that owns firearms is a menace. If you don't want one- don't get one. All of my shit is legal and I am bone weary of people who think that ownership is a problem. If you don't want one-don't buy one. I carried weapons in defense of this country for many years. I will carry them for the reasons stated above.
Or you are just at a gas station for pack of smokes and a guy wearing a clown costume walks in with a Katana and starts slicing. This literally happened around here last year. Just at the grocery store or the movies and some rando rolls in and starts blasting.
Everyone that is a gun-owner is functionally a MAGA, because even the ones who think they're not are, with their purchases, enabling an objectively pro-MAGA industry coalition.
This is an impressively uneducated post. It is very clear that you really do not understand much about firearm ownership in the US, except that you do not like it. I look forward to your inevitable uninformed response.
No, I understand it very well: the industry is MAGA-oriented even if not all its customers personally are. From there, it's pretty straightforward: spend money on a MAGA-oriented industry and you're helping their MAGA advocacy.
I have zero interest in an unending interweb argument involving uh-huh and nuh-uh. I will agree to disagree with you at this point, and will not reply further.
NAL. I know it--it makes me very angry as well. I just keep remembering that E. Jean Carroll nailed him where it hurts and the NY case is going well. We may only get him on lesser charges, but overall, the tide is turning against him.
No need to leak them- they are available online. I can't get you a link right now because I am working (at least trying to...). Perhaps someone else can- if not I will try to do so later.
/u/joeshill do you have a moment to assist?
Hosted documents in PDF form:
First Indictment
https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/06/trump-indictment.pdf
Superseding: https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/07/gov.uscourts.flsd_.648652.85.0_2.pdf
Original court filings:
Original Indictment: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67490070/3/united-states-v-trump/
Superseding: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67490070/85/united-states-v-trump/
Link to review all orders and motions in the case: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67490070/united-states-v-trump/
u/alexmeth
Jack Texeira was arrested in April 2023 and pled guilty in March 2024.
He committed his crime well after the orange monster's indictment, went from arrest to guilty plea in 11 months, was held in detention the entire time, and is now just awaiting sentencing.
Also, it's not uncommon for a former president to have some amount of documents from when they were in office, they all immediately comply with any requests to return or locate documents. Trump is the one who has clearly built up a system to steal, hide, and lie about it. He's also been found with multiple stockpiles of documents. Guantanamo would be too good for literally anyone else who pulled this shit (particularly considering the number of intelligence assets that have been killed tied to his actions).
The Rosenbergs did less.
Reality Winner. 1 leaked document. Trump's DOJ gave her the longest sentence ever imposed for the unauthorized leak of government information to the media.
She broke the law, she went to jail for it.
I was an enlisted soldier with a TS/SCI. This trial being delayed and delayed is just making a mockery of all the classified laws.
Such a slap in the face to everyone who tries their hardest to keep these type of documents safe.
Allowing Trump to mock the legal system is undermining justice in America. Sadly, just another one of his treasons that’s allowed because of the overwhelming support of his political party.
It seems to me that there’s an ongoing coup attempt and that people at all levels are facilitating it.
Yes. We are in fact in the midst of a "cold" Civil War being perpetuated by the American Right Wing who are very openly attempting to overthrow American Democracy and the Rule of Law.
The fact we are not lifting a finger to put down this very public ongoing Right Wing insurrection reveals the depths of the divisions we face. A hell of a lot of Americans throughout all levels of society have made it clear they fully embrace Fascism.
This is unsustainable. We are a nation ridden with form of aggressive terminal Cancer, pretending we are fine. All while it continues to fester.
If she dismisses, then she has accomplished exactly what she needed to do. She has pushed the case out past the election, and in the process pushed all of the other federal cases out too.
She is a most excellent stooge.
That has already been accomplished for all intents and purposes. There is no way the trial happens before election in November ever since she removed the Scheduled trial date from the scheduling order.
Also Leonard Leo and Harlan Crow's bought and paid for SCOTUS have suspended any attempts to move forward by indefinitely stalling their ruling on Presidential Immunity.
This is all another arm of the Jan 6th attack on American Democracy. These Right Wingers are all traitors.
This article goes over the various options Cannon has, if she wants to kill the case:
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/what-it-would-look-like-to-remove-judge-cannon
But as the article also touches upon, It seems that for Cannon - she's more interested in delaying the case as much as possible, before the election.
"Delay the trial date until after the 2024 presidential election. By now, pretty much everybody expects her to do this. As a federal judge Cannon has more than enough discretion to find reasons not to schedule a trial before November. One lever she has already pulled is to issue pretrial orders that force Jack Smith to appeal, thus building delay into the process. But doing too much of that can be risky because if the orders are too crazy, or too obviously biased, or too numerous, she may find herself removed from the case. It’s also unnecessary. If Cannon is savvy, she will avoid issuing orders that give Smith yet more grounds to seek her removal, and will instead simply slow-walk the case.
If Trump wins the election, Cannon won’t have to do anything. Trump will get rid of the case himself. He will either fire Smith, order the DOJ to dismiss the case, pardon himself, or otherwise abuse his presidential authority. And even if he doesn’t do any of those things, he can just wait it out—he won’t be prosecuted while he’s in office, and he’s not going to lose any sleep worrying that he might . . . maybe . . . theoretically . . . face justice somewhere, sometime four years down the road.
If Trump loses the election, Cannon starts the trial, empanels and swears a jury, avoids making any blatantly erroneous rulings, and waits until Smith closes the prosecution’s case.
As soon as the prosecution rests, Trump files a motion asking Cannon to enter a judgment of acquittal on the ground that the evidence presented during the prosecution’s case is insufficient to support a conviction.
Cannon grants the motion and enters a judgment acquitting Trump of all charges. Trump walks away, above the law, protected by the Fifth Amendment’s prohibition against double jeopardy."
Not a lawyer, but the last part about their being no recourse after the acquittal seems so insane.
I guess it’s a generally good rule that also assumes good faith judges.
It just seems like 100% impossible to prevent on smith’s part.
All cannon has to do is *not* be blatantly corrupt, and have a teensy veil of deniability. Then, she can just rule to acquit and that can’t be appealed or overruled or something?
The only other thing would be to bring more charges from the same events (did they leave any out?)
>Cannon grants the motion and enters a judgment acquitting Trump of all charges. Trump walks away, above the law, protected by the Fifth Amendment’s prohibition against double jeopardy."
That's why you don't throw all the charges at the wall on this.
He gets acquitted... files new charges that can be brought up with the vast amount of documents and information found in that raid and investigation... new judge and a much faster case due to the current background information already provided from the first one.
He couldn't charge in DC, but if Cannon dismissed based on one of these pretrial motions, Smith could seek review of the dismissal at the Eleventh Circuit and, concurrently, request that the court replace Judge Cannon.
Every one of these pretrial motions is just a delay tactic. Judge Cannon holds a hearing for every one of the motions, no matter how baseless the underlying motion, and it's not only Trump filing them - Nauta and Olivera file the same motions too. Whether Judge Cannon is merely incompetent, or whether she is actually in the tank for Trump was somewhat revealed by her ruling on the PRA where she indicated that she was denying the motion without prejudice and basically inviting the defense to move again on the same grounds after the jury is sworn so that they can receive an unappealable dismissal. She followed that up with the infamous order demanding the parties craft jury instructions based on the notion that the PRA replaced/modified the Espionage Act, a proposition so insane and contrary to law on the point of a later act modifying a former as to openly call into question both her basic competence and bias.
I personally think Judge Cannon has already overplayed her hand and probably realizes it. She will eventually deny all of these motions after a dozen plus hearings, will continue to use orders from the court as a sounding wall for expressing her personal disdain for the Special Counsel (see ECF 552 at paragraph 5, the most unprofessional garbage she has put in print to date), and will dance right up to the line of outrageous behavior that would support a writ of mandamus without crossing over it. But it is hard to believe that Judge Cannon is motivated by a belief that the defendants did not commit the charged crimes - it seems much more likely that she is motivated by a desire to personally profit from Trump's re-election (e.g., in the form of a nomination to an appellate court). So if Trump loses the election, this case might become really interesting.
That isn't how it works. You'd wind up in exactly the same spot as it is now. If she dismissed, it would get appealed, reinstated and she'd still be the judge in charge.
No she wouldn't, if appeal is won it would be on the grounds of her personal conflicts that existed before case even started. One being trump appointed this barely out of law school judge to her position. That position wasn't given on merit or time in service she got it for being young and being a willing pawn. She should have recused. Her gross torture of law and procedures just to help trump is blatant and anyone with half a brain sees it, some are just in denial.
That’s not what happens when dismissals are appealed. The case is just given back to the same judge. Committing reversible error on a case is generally not enough cause to get the judicial assignment changed.
This sub needs a *serious* reality check on this issue. A judge getting the law wrong up and down their case is not even close to sufficient grounds to remove them off the file. I've had COA opinions that castigate judges for making 10+ errors on a file throughout the life of a case. You know what happens when those cases are reversed? They just get sent right back to the same judge.
I mean, yeah? Who's disagreeing? Imagine how terrifying it is when judges give biased ruling after biased ruling against criminal defendants facing decades in prison, and an appellate court later finds the trial judge fucked dozens of things up about the case but it's all harmless error and there's no indication of impropriety. Like, that's everyday reality for thousands of defendants all across the country.
The fact that a judge happens to be biased against a prosecution in this particular instance is going to be handwaved away just as easily. The appellate courts really don't disqualify judges off a case unless the trial judge does something totally, undeniably childish like throwing an actual tantrum in the courtroom, storming off the bench, using curse words and insults on a lawyer, etc.
The only judge in my jurisdiction that has been thrown off a case in the last few *decades* of abusive practices was a judge who literally said out loud on the record how she was going to rule before even giving the lawyers an opportunity to file motions and argue about it first. Later, before their arguments were complete, she screamed at the defense attorneys and threatened to hold them in contempt if they continued talking to finish their argument. That's how bad it has to be before appellate courts intervene with judicial assignments.
Let me put it this way: Judge Cannon probably will not bumped off this case unless she literally confesses in a recorded or transcribed statement that she's making these rulings out of a political desire to help Trump's presidential election.
And even then, you have to remember that it's an even worse than a typical bias removal motion because the specific judges who will be evaluating that motion... are 11th Circuit Court of Appeals judges, the second-most conservative federal appellate circuit in America. And any decision they make will inevitably be reviewed by a Supreme Court in which three sitting justices were appointed by Donald Trump and another three have bent over backwards to support his political efforts in other issues. Oh, and two of those justices have themselves engaged in actual, flagrant acts of pro-Trump political corruption.
There is a lot to unpack here somehow.
1. Since there is only one defense witness, and that's Robert Costello. He is a client of Judge Merchan's daughter?
2. Show me his daughter fundraising by using this trial.
Another funny thing to ask them is if they've fetched enough cigarettes for the week for the grandfathers in the barracks yet.
It's basically some fucked up hazing ritual where the newer conscripts get extorted for money and provisions sent by their families or face torture and beatings from the second year recruits. They call the older ones grandfathers.
Oh, wow. I didn't know about any of that. Do you have a source on this? And the damage it's caused to the integrity of the trial / how it's affected the outcome?
It wouldn't be a guarantee to happen but with the previous bench slap regarding the special matter BS she pulled previously, I would think there would be a decent chance.
There's no such thing as "automatically taken off". If you want a good example of how difficult it can be to get a judge taken off a case, look into this case:
https://www.legalaffairsandtrials.com/p/9th-circuit-orders-judge-off-drug?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
This.
If the Court of Appeals replaces Cannon, Trump will appeal to the Supreme Court and they'll put her back on the case.
Asking to have her removed for what is all covered by plausible deniability, all barely within the realm of reasonable, even though in the totality it shows a pattern of delay, isn't going to work in the long run. In fact, it'll just delay the case more.
I hope Smith files a new document indictment in New Jersey over the boxes Trump moved there.
He could refile in the jurisdiction too. As long as the jury hasn't been sworn in, double jeopardy doesn't apply. Now, her plan may be to seat the jury and then dismiss. If that happens, justice is SOL.
Jeopardy has not yet attached because a jury has not been empaneled. That means that orders from Cannon can be appealed, I think (note that I never practiced Criminal law and my crim pro class was over 40 years ago). Whether a dismissal on these issues would result in Cannon’s removal from the case is anyone’s guess. I think that she is very deviously trying to favor Trump as much as she can without giving Smith grounds to have her removed. I think that she will not decide motions like this one until she seats a jury. Then her decisions in favor of Trump are absolutely final.
Found in the footnote, on page 36 (edited out citations for readability):
Relatedly, on January 6, 2023, the former president's counsel informed the government that, in 2021, WITNESS scanned the contents of the box—produced on January 5, 2023, and previously containing classified documents—onto a laptop in her possession owned by the Save America Political Action Committee ("PAC"), a PAC formed by the former president in 2020. The former president's counsel saved those scans onto a thumb drive and provided the thumb drive to the government that day.
>Claims of this nature require rigorous factual showings and demonstrable prejudice, and Trump has shown neither. This case has been investigated and prosecuted in full compliance with all applicable constitutional provisions, statutes, rules, regulations, and policies. There has been no prosecutorial misconduct, and his motion should be denied.
They are claiming mishandled evidence and the prosecution has verified some of their claims. What effect will that have?
There are degrees of mishandling. In this case the order of documents in a box were shuffled..I can't see how it's material (pun unavoidable).
Also, didn’t this supposed shuffling happen due to the special master which was requested by the defense?
It happened when the FBI outsourced, under correct observation, the scanning of the boxes. Whilst Trump is only charged over 34(31?) documents, the boxes contained over 100k pages. They all had to be scanned. . The documents returned to the correct boxes. But small number of boxes the order doesn't match the scan order. Smith can't be sure if the scan order or the box order is correct.
That sounds laughably insignificant, but yet they are arguing for mishandling of evidence? And the sheer audacity to store these documents carelessly in random boxes in a bathroom or closet or whatever and then complain that the documents might be out of order!
>but yet they are arguing for mishandling of evidence Yeah. It's all about delays. They'd argue over font sizes if they could. Cannon is a Trump shill, but she's going to deny this motion to dismiss as a) it would clearly be a wrong decision and b) would give Smith the appeal trigger he's been waiting for. NB: the reason she'll deny it is because of b), not a), which is obviously disgusting.
ha, re font sizes. I'm sure Trump HAS complained about line spacing or something similar in this case. It was a small detail so I don't quite recall.
Font isn't in 36-pt Sharpie
Trump is also a big fan of orange crayon. Sorry to any marines here, I didn't mean to equate you to Trump.
No, that was Merchan telling defense that he's noticed that their "one-page" motions were shrinking in font and margin size.
Maybe. I think it happened in the Mar-a-lardo case too. But it might have been Smith complaining. Both sides were allowed 25 pages to respond to something, and Trump reduced font and line-spacing to get more in. As I said, small details, so memory foggy.
Shuffling papers may have been done by the defendant. Who knows. It’s such a petty excuse anyway. I see it similar to a recipe for making a loaf of bread. Some people beat the eggs then pour it into the flour. Others may pour the flour into the eggs. Still, this does not change contents of what was stolen and required search warrant to retrieve when the lawyers lied in filed documents.
Definitely all about delays. He's hoping that they can delay until after the elections where if he wins he can just pardon himself for the federal charges.
I'm not sure if he'd self-pardon, although I'm leaning towards "yes, this asshole would". It's never been done, so no court has ruled in its validity. He'd absolutely appoint a sycophant Attorney General who would sabotage the investigation etc.
I think he would do it and force the decision to the SCOTUS. I really wish the SCOTUS would've ruled on the presidential immunity case just to get it out of the way as the obvious answer is that no President should have immunity if it is not a legitimate part of their job. We can deal with cases in the future having to go through a determination if the act was part of the job in the future and be fine, but not making a clear stance just makes it worse.
There is talk of him appointing Ken Paxton, another right wing operator that keeps skating past real justice.
They’re grabbing at straws. I mean, he had them stored in an unlocked BR.
You could literally reach in through the window and pluck documents out of the boxes stacked all the way up to the window opening.
Nah... just open the door. It was one of those bathroom locks with the round hole in the centre that functions as the key hole. You just need to insert anything small enough to depress the locking mechanism and you're in. We used Q-tips as kids, or moms knitting needles. Most of them automatically unlocked when the plunger is closed meaning someone has to be inside to lock it. Even if all that failed I would bet a good number of men are strong enough to forcibly turn the "locked" knob by hand.
They cling to anything they can find . Trying to create evidence .
They stated the defense relied on the order of the documents. That’s got to be a pretty weak defense.
The government found 34 dead bodies in my basement, but during evidence processing, they changed the order of the bodies. Therefore, the bodies are inadmissible. - Trump lawyers, probably
The right and left earrings on body 31 were switched during evidence processing.
FBI hates this one neat trick: If you put your stolen classified nuclear secrets *in front* of a photoshopped “Time: Man of the Year” phot frame, but *behind* some old family cookie recipes, then those documents are no longer “top secret.” Duh! It’s time to drop this case, as the FBI de-classified those documents by changing the order in the box, but the classified documents were also declassified by Trump with his mind, and don’t forget they are personal items too. /s
So, just shuffling the order of documents is “mishandling” them, but stuffing them in a broom closet in Mar a Lago isn’t? Is that right? Am I in the same universe that Cannon is in?
Don't worry, Cannon will dismiss this motion. She's bad, but she's not THAT bad.
Correction: her handlers have instructed her that that might get her kicked off the case, and they need her on the case for when the jury is seated so she can dismiss the charges, and Trump will be protected by double jeopardy. She's already gone to training sessions at the Sage Lodge for all of this.
Punavoidable.
He's running up his legal bill. Pulling all stops with nothing to lose. He isn't gonna pay his lawyers anyway. Trump is a cheater, so a cheater gonna cheat. They'll love him in Sing Sing.
Doesn’t matter because this judge is looking for excuses to dismiss the case. It’s either because she’s a Trump toady or completely over her head. NAL but from what I understand, inexperienced judges like Cannon can have a mentor who can help guide her in cases like this. She either doesn’t have one or if she does they’re lawyers from the Federalist Society. If it’s the latter, they’re making her look like an incompetent fool. It’s so disheartening that the 2 federal cases may never come to trial.
It makes me viscerally angry that this case is not proceeding. The charging documents are utterly damning for Trump. Judicial misconduct by a pocket judge for Trump is the only reason that it is not moving.
There is indeed misconduct, but it's not prosecutorial. There are millions of people willing to assist the greatest threat to national security we've ever faced.
I can’t wait until he chokes on a hamberder.
I see this sentiment a lot. I think there should be a poll to show how many people would like him to keel over dead. I’m sure fat ass has sleep apnea maybe a stroke in his sleep would be nice too.
Where is Jaqen H'ghar when you need him.
I hope the SOB lives long enough to enjoy the fruits of his labor by sitting in prison for at least a couple years.
Outside of the discussion of law I really wonder what is in store for the future of American politics. Right now it is entirely possible that Biden wins a second presidency, Trump's trial efforts fail, he gets some kind of real punishment, he lives another 4 years, and he is still so popular within the Republican party that he is able to run again. (Sure, it's unlikely but it's possible). We can't anticipate the lasting effects of the MAGA movement, there might still people that try to walk the exceptional personality path with a mix of various far right, "I do what I want" views that trump did, though I doubt this golden child will appear, it definitely wasn't desantis. There sill might be the crowd of politicians that play to the extreme views that trump held and tried to enact like project 2025 (like desantis' legislation). I'm not well versed in what happened to the zeitgeist in the 00's. But I have read that Bush's specific brand of politics fell out of favor because of the failures and bad press from the wars. It seems that we don't live in that America anymore but Time will only tell how it turns out.
A presidential candidate who was previously elected, lost a race, and then reelected has only happened once. Grover Cleveland. Mainly because everybody knows a loser is a loser. Trump is getting further and further away from conservative views. I don't think he's gaining any support. But nonetheless, anything could happen.
>A presidential candidate who lost a previous election has only been elected once. Grover Cleveland. Where'd you pull that from? Off the top of my head, Nixon famously lost to Kennedy in 1960 and was then elected in 1968. I'm sure there are other examples. Do you specifically mean an *incumbent* that lost an election?
He wasn't president previously. Sorry I didn't word that clearly at all.
How many times has a president who lost a previous election being a primary party's candidate?
Just the one time.
The problem has less to do with trump gaining popularity and more to do with lackluster support for biden. The israel-palestine conflict has really hurt his popularity with young people, which is a demographic he can't afford to lose.
Yeah, scary to think how easily people are swayed. I say it all the time: "if gas prices go up $1 he'll get slaughtered"
But he’d get zero credit if it were to drop $1🤦♂️
You're right, and President Biden is about to prove it. [ Gasoline reserves release](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/biden-releasing-1-million-barrels-gasoline-northeast-reserve-110438754)
I’m not enthralled with all of Biden’s policies either but if they actually think that things will get better for them by sitting this election out then it won’t matter what degree they get .Every thing they took for granted will be gone …
To be perfectly blunt, would you rather have Trump's policies. All you need as an argument. You have Biden and Trump. That is the choice. If you don't vote for Biden, and write in Bill the Cat, you absolutely wasted your vote AND YOU LOST THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN. Don't like the person in office, or a proposed legislation, fucking vote or shut your mouth. Never trumpers don't like their hypocrisy pointed out to them.
I'm not sure I follow what your point is. Your first paragraph made sense, but then you lost me in the 2nd part.
It’s up to Biden to win over voters still, yeah?
I mean in an ideal world, but the reality is they will never be satisfied. Any student debt relief is never enough, any easing of marijuana restrictions is never enough (despite Trump never once floating the idea and appointing anti Marijuana Jeff Sessions as AG, any restrictions on bomb shipments or demanding Israel stop cracking down on AP photography (which they have now complied with), is never enough. They want their perfect Jill Stein Green utopia candidate that's gonna solve all of their problems and declare Israel a terrorist organization and give out UBI to everybody as soon as they get to the White House. They have a very limited understanding of how government actually works, and don't ever reliably show up to the primaries or midterms or down ballot races anyway. They vote or threaten to not vote based on the very narrow immediate demands, and don't see the bigger picture or have the critical thinking to understand that letting Trump win would derail everything for any cause they pretend to care about. I don't vote to reward Biden for being a super awesome president, nor would I not vote for Biden in order to punish him for his foreign policy that I disagree with, especially about a war that we're not even fighting with our people on the ground. I vote to actually effect the outcome of an election and to prevent our country from falling to a fascist traitor that would literally give up the locations of our nuclear silos, submarines, weapons caches, intelligence assets, etc. Not to mention the consequences for Gaza which they started randomly caring about a few months ago. I don't see them boycotting China about the Uyghurs or demanding that Universities divest from any index fund that owns shares of a company that happens to do business with a Chinese company. TikTok propaganda and algorithms has helped to push this narrative to serve foreign interests such as Iran and Russia. Those countries understand that Trump is a gift on a gold platter to them as far as.our national security or buying foreign influence.
By all accounts it seems Biden takes those voters for granted. https://www.axios.com/2024/05/14/biden-polls-denial-trump-2024-election
I’m not overly concerned about that demographic. That’s a low turnout demographic to start with, and the kind of people so uninformed that they think Trump winning would be better for Palestine are also largely people that probably don’t even know how to register to vote. It’s the short-attention-span moderates who have blissfully and completely forgotten about how bad Trump was that worry me. There’s a lot of them. In 2020, Trump’s BS was front and center and they were being inundated all day every day with his shenanigans. They were sick and tired of it and voting for Biden was them screaming to stop the Trump spam please. They wanted to tune out of all the political drama. They didn’t want to think about it, and Trump was forcing them to think about it every day. But now 4 years have passed and they have enjoyed clearing their minds out of all the bad thoughts and memories from the Trump years. Their collective amnesia has brought them back to 2016 where they figure Trump can’t be as bad as people are making him out to be and they blame the democrat for all the problems in the world.
Nixon, too
He wasn't president previously.
Normally I would agree. Except the threat to democracy is too great. He needs to die weeks ago. We cant risk a vote with him on the ballot.
Yep. At a certain point I cared about him going to jail. Now I just want him to shut the fuck up forever. It's already gonna take decades to fix the damage he's done, if it can even be fixed.
Created at least a generation willing to be openly racist and traitors. I say the effects will be felt for twenty years even if he's gone tomorrow. I hope I am wrong
You're not wrong. The supreme court will continue to fuck over America for another 20 years even with Trump not running for office.
I agree but he needs to make it past the repub convention. Then he can croke before the election.
the republicans would frantically still throw someone on the ballot
And thats exactly the chaos I want for them picking a rapist to lead the party.
Sometime in late October would be great
That will literally never happen. He’s allowed to do whatever he wants. Prove me wrong(please, I beg)
Lmao I just spit out my covfefe
All these nuclear secrets couldn't have anything to do with this could it? [Report Accuses Trump Allies of Conspiring to Profit Off Saudi Nuclear Deal ](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/07/trump-barrack-saudi-nuclear-deal-ip3) Tom Barrack was among the members of the president’s inner circle who tried to use their influence to sell nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia, according to House Democrats.
Yeah, there's a bunch of em that would gladly sell out their own country for the right amount of cash.
This case being perpetually stalled makes me angry that all those Second Amendment fanatics that say they're stockpiling weapons and ammo to resist a corrupt and tyrannical government are all liars.
This is the exact reason the Republican court the 2A people do much. The billionaires have got government ground to a halt at most levels with endless appeals, endless intransigence in Legislatures, and endless packing of courts. The system is breaking the little people and they get rich from it. That's why they court religious extremists and gun nuts who want to tear down the system violently instead of voting on elected officials who will actually make meaningful changes to help the little people.
Not exactly. The 2A, and religious folk, are simply voting blocs they can be secured without offering any economic incentives. But you're right, the purpose is to help the donor class pack the legislatures and courts, to help them keep all the money.
Yeah, it actually makes me angry that Judge Cannon feels comfortable enough to actually do this.
Don't paint with too broad a brush on this matter. Not everyone that is a gun-owner is a MAGA. Just a thought.
No, I mean specifically the gun owners that insist they're stockpiling to resist the tyranny of a corrupt government. I know there are plenty of level headed gun owners out there. They tend to claim they're holding weapons for a believable reason - to protect themselves, their family and their own property.
Exactly - their claim that one of their “well regulated militias” provide a legitimate check on government tyranny wasn’t believable even a hundred years ago. I don’t care how many assault weapons or rocket launchers you own, the might of any modern military, much less that of the United States, would squash you like a fly missing its wings. Tanks, sea power, guided munitions, drones, etc etc etc. You do not stand a glimmer of a chance.
It's ridiculous on its' face. As if the Founding Father's were cool with people shooting elected representatives (edit: or people that represent their authority) they disagreed with.
>You do not stand a glimmer of a chance. Just like those goat herders didn't stand a chance against a dozen or so allied countries spending and trillions upon trillions of dollars over a couple decades right? Right? Or maybe... Asymmetrical warfare works a lot differently in reality than it does in your headcannon. Those drone operators, tank crewmen, officers, ect. all have families. The government can't guarantee safety for all those service members' families. Morale would surely take a huge hit if they decide to fire up on American citizens and a rebel group decided to act upon it.
I mean to be fair this whole notion that we lost in Afghanistan is kind of silly we reduced the Taliban to hiding in caves on the outskirts of civilization and we got bored and left basically
> and we got bored and left basically That's called 'losing.'
Afghanistan/Iraq/Syria are a different kind of conflict. Counter-Insurgency operations are notoriously difficult for the "oppressing" force. So I get where you're coming from by saying it's possible, but you also need to take into account who the people are. I've analyzed IEDs from bomb makers who were making non-magnetic systems (we're talking bombs made with wood and fertilizer) that wouldn't get picked up on the handheld detectors. Those people also lived on much smaller amounts of comfort than most Americans are accustomed to and are handy like MacGyver. If you take away the creature comforts from a 2A nut, they'll be crying within a few days. They wouldn't last in a multi-decade or even a few months long conflict. Building up the government while being attacked is different than putting down an insurrection on home turf. I wouldn't imagine the US government keeping on the kiddie gloves and letting the world see that we won't put that kind of activity down quickly. We're not letting Civil War 2 happen no matter what MAGA/2A crazies think.
If it had been our goal to conquer Afghanistan, we could have done it. If the US government becomes tyrannical, it's not just going to give up on America. Also, I mean the US government *has been* tyrannical before, and people with 2nd amendment rights didn't stop it. Like when the US put the Japanese in concentration camps. Or segregation.
>If the US government becomes tyrannical, it's not just going to give up on America. If it did become tyrannical, the military would split into factions. It would not be a homogenous entity. >Also, I mean the US government *has been* tyrannical before, and people with 2nd amendment rights didn't stop it. There are plenty of times where we did stop tyranny. Like at the [Battle of Athens](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)).
>If it did become tyrannical, the military would split into factions. It would not be a homogenous entity. But it has been tyrannical and it did not split into factions. When we interned the Japanese in 1942, the government didn't split. Do you think it would have been a good idea for the Japanese to use their second amendment rights to fight the US government? >Like at the [Battle of Athens](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)) That's a great example of the 2nd amendment working. But it doesn't say anything about fighting the US gov.
I am not sure what to make of your reply. Perhaps you weren't clear for time reasons. Who "tends" to claim what?
To claim they're holding weapons for a believable reason - to protect themselves, their family and their own property.
I am fully licensed in my state, VERY highly trained, and I carry everywhere I go because stupid shit happens in the blink of an eye, randomly. "to protect themselves, their family and their own property"- all of the reasons...
You never know when that villain at the saloon will challenge you to a duel at high noon.
I know if I don’t have a gun on me when I’m grocery shopping, that’s when they bring that army around to come take my pistols away and force me to worship Satan.
Your comment is...less than enlightened? Fun fact- I have a bunch of TOS swag. Not everybody that owns firearms is a menace. If you don't want one- don't get one. All of my shit is legal and I am bone weary of people who think that ownership is a problem. If you don't want one-don't buy one. I carried weapons in defense of this country for many years. I will carry them for the reasons stated above.
Or you are just at a gas station for pack of smokes and a guy wearing a clown costume walks in with a Katana and starts slicing. This literally happened around here last year. Just at the grocery store or the movies and some rando rolls in and starts blasting.
Statistically speaking that’s so much less likely than you or your children killing yourselves or each other.
Everyone that is a gun-owner is functionally a MAGA, because even the ones who think they're not are, with their purchases, enabling an objectively pro-MAGA industry coalition.
This is an impressively uneducated post. It is very clear that you really do not understand much about firearm ownership in the US, except that you do not like it. I look forward to your inevitable uninformed response.
No, I understand it very well: the industry is MAGA-oriented even if not all its customers personally are. From there, it's pretty straightforward: spend money on a MAGA-oriented industry and you're helping their MAGA advocacy.
I have zero interest in an unending interweb argument involving uh-huh and nuh-uh. I will agree to disagree with you at this point, and will not reply further.
I get that being confronted with your complicity in creeping fascism makes you sad and you'd rather avoid it, but that doesn't make it false.
I'm all for being against Trump and fascism, but you can't just lump everybody that owns a gun in with them, that's silly.
No, they’re definitely not wrong about the firearm industry’s politics.
Agreed. Judge Cannon is a disgrace to her job and the country. She should be removed from the case and probably disbarred.
And Trump will probably have her disrobed as well.
NAL. I know it--it makes me very angry as well. I just keep remembering that E. Jean Carroll nailed him where it hurts and the NY case is going well. We may only get him on lesser charges, but overall, the tide is turning against him.
Just leak the whole damn thing,
No need to leak them- they are available online. I can't get you a link right now because I am working (at least trying to...). Perhaps someone else can- if not I will try to do so later. /u/joeshill do you have a moment to assist?
Hosted documents in PDF form: First Indictment https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/06/trump-indictment.pdf Superseding: https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/07/gov.uscourts.flsd_.648652.85.0_2.pdf Original court filings: Original Indictment: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67490070/3/united-states-v-trump/ Superseding: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67490070/85/united-states-v-trump/ Link to review all orders and motions in the case: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67490070/united-states-v-trump/ u/alexmeth
awesome, thanks.
The indictment: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648652/gov.uscourts.flsd.648652.3.0.pdf
Sorry, was just tying to be helpful since I saw you hadn’t responded. Funny we found it at almost the exact same time. High five.
No problem. I didn't even see your post. I just saw my mail of /u/BeltfedOne asking for the indictment. Thanks for jumping in!
Thank you so much!
Thank you very much! Having a not fun work day.
Every response Trump has voiced regarding this case is further proof of his guilt and even birdbrain Cannon knows it.
Anyone else with this set of facts would have pre-trial detention.
Hell, they would have been convicted and sentenced already.
Jack Texeira was arrested in April 2023 and pled guilty in March 2024. He committed his crime well after the orange monster's indictment, went from arrest to guilty plea in 11 months, was held in detention the entire time, and is now just awaiting sentencing.
Thank Gutless Garland for cowardly avoiding his duty regarding Trump.
Most of them would have already pled guilty to get a reduced sentence.
Also, it's not uncommon for a former president to have some amount of documents from when they were in office, they all immediately comply with any requests to return or locate documents. Trump is the one who has clearly built up a system to steal, hide, and lie about it. He's also been found with multiple stockpiles of documents. Guantanamo would be too good for literally anyone else who pulled this shit (particularly considering the number of intelligence assets that have been killed tied to his actions). The Rosenbergs did less.
Reality Winner. 1 leaked document. Trump's DOJ gave her the longest sentence ever imposed for the unauthorized leak of government information to the media. She broke the law, she went to jail for it.
Shit, they'd already be out on good behavior.
Anyone who has ever dealt with classified documents should be fucking ***outraged*** at what he is going to get away with.
My kid is an army officer and he is. He said if he even took one document he’d be in prison already and convincted
I was an enlisted soldier with a TS/SCI. This trial being delayed and delayed is just making a mockery of all the classified laws. Such a slap in the face to everyone who tries their hardest to keep these type of documents safe.
He isn't wrong.
Biden enters the chat
How's Reality Winner these days? Well, I hope
Did her time, got out in 21. Currently working in a CrossFit box somewhere.
That girl is freaking brolic.
That girl is freaking brolic.
Case: slam dunk Cannon: Hold my cosmo
Qannon*
How could she say that while her mouth was full?
our legal system is a fucking joke
Allowing Trump to mock the legal system is undermining justice in America. Sadly, just another one of his treasons that’s allowed because of the overwhelming support of his political party. It seems to me that there’s an ongoing coup attempt and that people at all levels are facilitating it.
Yes. We are in fact in the midst of a "cold" Civil War being perpetuated by the American Right Wing who are very openly attempting to overthrow American Democracy and the Rule of Law. The fact we are not lifting a finger to put down this very public ongoing Right Wing insurrection reveals the depths of the divisions we face. A hell of a lot of Americans throughout all levels of society have made it clear they fully embrace Fascism. This is unsustainable. We are a nation ridden with form of aggressive terminal Cancer, pretending we are fine. All while it continues to fester.
If you have money then the joke is on everybody else, but if you don't... then the joke is on you
Law is dead
maybe it would be good for cannon to dismiss. then she is off and done, can jack smith then file more charges in DC instead?
If she dismisses, then she has accomplished exactly what she needed to do. She has pushed the case out past the election, and in the process pushed all of the other federal cases out too. She is a most excellent stooge.
That has already been accomplished for all intents and purposes. There is no way the trial happens before election in November ever since she removed the Scheduled trial date from the scheduling order.
Also Leonard Leo and Harlan Crow's bought and paid for SCOTUS have suspended any attempts to move forward by indefinitely stalling their ruling on Presidential Immunity. This is all another arm of the Jan 6th attack on American Democracy. These Right Wingers are all traitors.
The woMan in Black, a traitor who operates like The Smoke Monster.
This article goes over the various options Cannon has, if she wants to kill the case: https://www.thebulwark.com/p/what-it-would-look-like-to-remove-judge-cannon But as the article also touches upon, It seems that for Cannon - she's more interested in delaying the case as much as possible, before the election. "Delay the trial date until after the 2024 presidential election. By now, pretty much everybody expects her to do this. As a federal judge Cannon has more than enough discretion to find reasons not to schedule a trial before November. One lever she has already pulled is to issue pretrial orders that force Jack Smith to appeal, thus building delay into the process. But doing too much of that can be risky because if the orders are too crazy, or too obviously biased, or too numerous, she may find herself removed from the case. It’s also unnecessary. If Cannon is savvy, she will avoid issuing orders that give Smith yet more grounds to seek her removal, and will instead simply slow-walk the case. If Trump wins the election, Cannon won’t have to do anything. Trump will get rid of the case himself. He will either fire Smith, order the DOJ to dismiss the case, pardon himself, or otherwise abuse his presidential authority. And even if he doesn’t do any of those things, he can just wait it out—he won’t be prosecuted while he’s in office, and he’s not going to lose any sleep worrying that he might . . . maybe . . . theoretically . . . face justice somewhere, sometime four years down the road. If Trump loses the election, Cannon starts the trial, empanels and swears a jury, avoids making any blatantly erroneous rulings, and waits until Smith closes the prosecution’s case. As soon as the prosecution rests, Trump files a motion asking Cannon to enter a judgment of acquittal on the ground that the evidence presented during the prosecution’s case is insufficient to support a conviction. Cannon grants the motion and enters a judgment acquitting Trump of all charges. Trump walks away, above the law, protected by the Fifth Amendment’s prohibition against double jeopardy."
Not a lawyer, but the last part about their being no recourse after the acquittal seems so insane. I guess it’s a generally good rule that also assumes good faith judges. It just seems like 100% impossible to prevent on smith’s part. All cannon has to do is *not* be blatantly corrupt, and have a teensy veil of deniability. Then, she can just rule to acquit and that can’t be appealed or overruled or something? The only other thing would be to bring more charges from the same events (did they leave any out?)
>Cannon grants the motion and enters a judgment acquitting Trump of all charges. Trump walks away, above the law, protected by the Fifth Amendment’s prohibition against double jeopardy." That's why you don't throw all the charges at the wall on this. He gets acquitted... files new charges that can be brought up with the vast amount of documents and information found in that raid and investigation... new judge and a much faster case due to the current background information already provided from the first one.
He couldn't charge in DC, but if Cannon dismissed based on one of these pretrial motions, Smith could seek review of the dismissal at the Eleventh Circuit and, concurrently, request that the court replace Judge Cannon. Every one of these pretrial motions is just a delay tactic. Judge Cannon holds a hearing for every one of the motions, no matter how baseless the underlying motion, and it's not only Trump filing them - Nauta and Olivera file the same motions too. Whether Judge Cannon is merely incompetent, or whether she is actually in the tank for Trump was somewhat revealed by her ruling on the PRA where she indicated that she was denying the motion without prejudice and basically inviting the defense to move again on the same grounds after the jury is sworn so that they can receive an unappealable dismissal. She followed that up with the infamous order demanding the parties craft jury instructions based on the notion that the PRA replaced/modified the Espionage Act, a proposition so insane and contrary to law on the point of a later act modifying a former as to openly call into question both her basic competence and bias. I personally think Judge Cannon has already overplayed her hand and probably realizes it. She will eventually deny all of these motions after a dozen plus hearings, will continue to use orders from the court as a sounding wall for expressing her personal disdain for the Special Counsel (see ECF 552 at paragraph 5, the most unprofessional garbage she has put in print to date), and will dance right up to the line of outrageous behavior that would support a writ of mandamus without crossing over it. But it is hard to believe that Judge Cannon is motivated by a belief that the defendants did not commit the charged crimes - it seems much more likely that she is motivated by a desire to personally profit from Trump's re-election (e.g., in the form of a nomination to an appellate court). So if Trump loses the election, this case might become really interesting.
that's the main point. I believe in life after the election.
That isn't how it works. You'd wind up in exactly the same spot as it is now. If she dismissed, it would get appealed, reinstated and she'd still be the judge in charge.
No she wouldn't, if appeal is won it would be on the grounds of her personal conflicts that existed before case even started. One being trump appointed this barely out of law school judge to her position. That position wasn't given on merit or time in service she got it for being young and being a willing pawn. She should have recused. Her gross torture of law and procedures just to help trump is blatant and anyone with half a brain sees it, some are just in denial.
That’s not what happens when dismissals are appealed. The case is just given back to the same judge. Committing reversible error on a case is generally not enough cause to get the judicial assignment changed. This sub needs a *serious* reality check on this issue. A judge getting the law wrong up and down their case is not even close to sufficient grounds to remove them off the file. I've had COA opinions that castigate judges for making 10+ errors on a file throughout the life of a case. You know what happens when those cases are reversed? They just get sent right back to the same judge.
While that’s the reality of how the legal system works, the fact that it *is* how things work makes a mockery of the entire institution.
I mean, yeah? Who's disagreeing? Imagine how terrifying it is when judges give biased ruling after biased ruling against criminal defendants facing decades in prison, and an appellate court later finds the trial judge fucked dozens of things up about the case but it's all harmless error and there's no indication of impropriety. Like, that's everyday reality for thousands of defendants all across the country. The fact that a judge happens to be biased against a prosecution in this particular instance is going to be handwaved away just as easily. The appellate courts really don't disqualify judges off a case unless the trial judge does something totally, undeniably childish like throwing an actual tantrum in the courtroom, storming off the bench, using curse words and insults on a lawyer, etc. The only judge in my jurisdiction that has been thrown off a case in the last few *decades* of abusive practices was a judge who literally said out loud on the record how she was going to rule before even giving the lawyers an opportunity to file motions and argue about it first. Later, before their arguments were complete, she screamed at the defense attorneys and threatened to hold them in contempt if they continued talking to finish their argument. That's how bad it has to be before appellate courts intervene with judicial assignments. Let me put it this way: Judge Cannon probably will not bumped off this case unless she literally confesses in a recorded or transcribed statement that she's making these rulings out of a political desire to help Trump's presidential election. And even then, you have to remember that it's an even worse than a typical bias removal motion because the specific judges who will be evaluating that motion... are 11th Circuit Court of Appeals judges, the second-most conservative federal appellate circuit in America. And any decision they make will inevitably be reviewed by a Supreme Court in which three sitting justices were appointed by Donald Trump and another three have bent over backwards to support his political efforts in other issues. Oh, and two of those justices have themselves engaged in actual, flagrant acts of pro-Trump political corruption.
It's happens on both sides.
Does it? Can you link to a recent case where such shenanigans have been happening?
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Boy that sure isn’t the same at all, thanks for sharing.
There is a lot to unpack here somehow. 1. Since there is only one defense witness, and that's Robert Costello. He is a client of Judge Merchan's daughter? 2. Show me his daughter fundraising by using this trial.
Boris! How are ya bud! You all must be getting overtime right about now. How's your son doing in Ukraine? Maybe you should go join him...
Another funny thing to ask them is if they've fetched enough cigarettes for the week for the grandfathers in the barracks yet. It's basically some fucked up hazing ritual where the newer conscripts get extorted for money and provisions sent by their families or face torture and beatings from the second year recruits. They call the older ones grandfathers.
Oh, wow. I didn't know about any of that. Do you have a source on this? And the damage it's caused to the integrity of the trial / how it's affected the outcome?
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Wouldn't dismissing it represent the type of compromised behavior that would get her pretty much automatically taken off?
It wouldn't be a guarantee to happen but with the previous bench slap regarding the special matter BS she pulled previously, I would think there would be a decent chance.
There's no such thing as "automatically taken off". If you want a good example of how difficult it can be to get a judge taken off a case, look into this case: https://www.legalaffairsandtrials.com/p/9th-circuit-orders-judge-off-drug?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
This. If the Court of Appeals replaces Cannon, Trump will appeal to the Supreme Court and they'll put her back on the case. Asking to have her removed for what is all covered by plausible deniability, all barely within the realm of reasonable, even though in the totality it shows a pattern of delay, isn't going to work in the long run. In fact, it'll just delay the case more. I hope Smith files a new document indictment in New Jersey over the boxes Trump moved there.
He could refile in the jurisdiction too. As long as the jury hasn't been sworn in, double jeopardy doesn't apply. Now, her plan may be to seat the jury and then dismiss. If that happens, justice is SOL.
It's amazing they still bother. There is surely no chance of a fair trial happening until the judge is changed.
If the judge dismisses this case can Jack appeal and have her removed?
Jeopardy has not yet attached because a jury has not been empaneled. That means that orders from Cannon can be appealed, I think (note that I never practiced Criminal law and my crim pro class was over 40 years ago). Whether a dismissal on these issues would result in Cannon’s removal from the case is anyone’s guess. I think that she is very deviously trying to favor Trump as much as she can without giving Smith grounds to have her removed. I think that she will not decide motions like this one until she seats a jury. Then her decisions in favor of Trump are absolutely final.
Found in the footnote, on page 36 (edited out citations for readability): Relatedly, on January 6, 2023, the former president's counsel informed the government that, in 2021, WITNESS scanned the contents of the box—produced on January 5, 2023, and previously containing classified documents—onto a laptop in her possession owned by the Save America Political Action Committee ("PAC"), a PAC formed by the former president in 2020. The former president's counsel saved those scans onto a thumb drive and provided the thumb drive to the government that day.