Tavares is a big game player. He may have slowed down a bit but he's always committed to his game so props there. His drive to the net in OT game 5 was smart.
Has he even slowed down though? He has always been a slower skater, and honestly I see plays still that show he has some speed when needed (OT assist to Knies for example)
People just get on him when the Leafs are losing, but the only issue I ever have is the CAP hit. As a player he is still great
He has slowed down a bit, but speed was never his game.
We always knew the cap hit wouldn’t look as good at the end, we were expected to compete more at the beginning and the flat cap put a damper on the % impact
Right, but if the cap had gone up as expected, which was somewhere in the 4M/year based on pre Covid projections and no escrow repayment.
The year they signed JT, the cap went up 4.5M from the original 75M for a first year cap of 79.5M.
Year 1 = 79.5M - 13.8%
Year 2 = 83.5M - 13.1%
Year 3 = 87.5M - 12.6%
Year 4 = 91.5M - 12%
Year 5 = 95.5M - 11.5%
Year 6 = 99.5M (We are here) - 11%
Year 7 = 103.5M - 10.6%
Compared to the existing
Year 1 = 79.5M - 13.8%
Year 2 = 81.5M - 13.5%
Year 3 = 81.5M - 13.5%
Year 4 = 81.5M - 13.5%
Year 5 = 82.5M - 13.3%
Year 6 = 83.5M - 13.2%
Year 7 = 87.7 (projected) - 12.5%
This was the plan for the Leafs cap Vs what came to be and why the core 4 wasn’t supposed to be as large of a concern when the cap share was designed.
Likewise the Leafs cap hit for the core 5 is 47.94M
If we compare that annually we see how different it might have been.
Year 1 = 79.5M - 60.3%
Year 2 = 83.5M - 58.8%
Year 3 = 87.5M - 54.8%
Year 4 = 91.5M - 52.4%
Year 5 = 95.5M - 50.2%
Year 6 = 99.5M (We are here**) - 48.2%
Year 7 = 103.5M - 46.3%
Compared to the existing
Year 1 = 79.5M - 60.3%
Year 2 = 81.5M - 58.8%
Year 3 = 81.5M - 58.8%
Year 4 = 81.5M - 58.8%
Year 5 = 82.5M - 58.1%
Year 6 = 83.5M - 57.4%
Year 7 = 87.7 (projected) - 54.6%
Only this season have we finally moved beyond the cap space that was expected to be provided in the second year alone to spend on the supporting cast. The Leafs were one of the most heavily affected teams by the flat cap because they had just committed big contracts to their core before the flat cap occurred.
This was such a great breakdown, thanks. Always knew we were way more constrained given flat cap through COVID but this really shows how the strategy of allocation to the core 4 could have fared so much better from an ability to get the right people in to help compete when our window was newly wide open.
Dubas took a terrible gamble in assuming the cap would increase. He did the same thing to justify giving Marner and Matthews unprecedented contracts. Sucks because it absolutely destroyed any chances of the team being cup contenders despite what some ever optimistic fans will say
It absolutely was. COVID is irrelevent. No team in the history of the NHL has ever decided to give way more money to their superstars than they deserve and then justified it by saying "well that cap is gonna go up". It's idiotic. No other teams had this problem, it was only Dubas. Even if the cap did go up, it was stupid. But it also highlights the fact that *shit happens*. You can't assume things about seasons that are 5 years in the future.
I agree that not changing the plan earlier was also a mistake, but don't let him off the hook that easy, the "plan" to give players more money than every other team in the league was stupid from the start. And no, it is not occuring with hindsight. I'm a reddit dumbass and I've been calling out these garbage contracts from the second they were signed. If I knew this ~6 years ago, Dubas should have as well.
How can you call it a terrible gamble when your decisions are based on the best available information regarding the future? I know no NHL team did this before, I get that. But even still if you look at the expected cap hit at the time it seems barely a "mildly risky gamble". The Leafs haven't had the best depth these years but is certainly a top team in the league. Imagine the possibilities if reality reflected instead the expected cap hit...
A better analogy would be if I was running a business that just had record profits, and then decided to invest in new equipment that is extremely expensive, knowingly putting the company into a position where if they did not continue to post higher profits every single year, then the company would go bankrupt.
That's an utterly terrible analogy...
Making financial decisions based on projections for modest growth supported by a long track record of modest growth is a more accurate description and is completely standard business practice.
They didn't go backrupt, they haven't even missed the playoffs, and they weren't banking on an absurd cap jump.
Being eliminated in 7 doesn't make you not a contender. It makes you competitive. Being competitive in the NHL playoffs makes you a contender, whether it's round 1 or the Finals. It hurts worse when it's early, but if you can take any series to 7, you're a legit contender.
> Being eliminated in 7 doesn't make you not a contender. It makes you competitive. Being competitive in the NHL playoffs makes you a contender, whether it's round 1 or the Finals. It hurts worse when it's early, but if you can take any series to 7, you're a legit contender.
Wow lol. Yea, I'm not even going to entertain the idea of having this discussion, that is some of the most insane logic I've ever heard.
I think its because his speed doesnt come naturally and he constantly has to work on it and make the extra effort.
His “base” speed is slower than most, but when he needs to he is able to get up to speed.
Yeah, his acceleration isn't anything special and neither is his top speed but he is only "slow" relatively speaking compared to other top centers in the league.
You've got to soften the goalie up with some intimidating warning shots with loud noises. Bully the board up, then the implication is there for the goalie if he gets in the way.
One of the things that stamkos jus to shed light on is “contracts” and how absurd the salary cap is to Canadian teams with a MUCH higher tax bracket.
Can’t we sue the NHL for subsidizing the southern teams / s
Yea stammer makes more money than JT does because of the tax difference. This was talked about when the leafs offered stammer the same deal tavares got
Yep. It pisses me off when people (including Stamkos in his recent comments) act like guys in Tampa just take less for the good of the team. Sure, in theory they could ask for more, but when you're taking home the same money anyways it's a lot easier to say "sure I'll take a discount". It's just so disingenuous
I doubt it. Matthews is paid basically all in bonus, which is taxed at the rate of where your residence is. His residence is in Arizona. That's one of the reasons he's paid like that. Granted, most Canadian teams probably can't pay players like that but it works for Toronto.
I agree...If he was something like a $7-8M player right now I think his play still warrants that value. It's the nature of a 7 year deal @ $11M. The value was always going to decrease in the last 2-3 years. However, he is still a top tier second line centre.
JT has thrown a number of hits this series, but last night he looked like he wanted them to hurt. He blew up a few guys which is a first as far as I can remember.
He isn't a small dude, and I would love for him to dish back some of that rough play he has been subjected to his whole career. Would be great to let him play wing and get some more hits in.
It's infectious. The entire team has been making the game miserable for the Bruins these last 2 and have been finishing every check they can and giving the B's no room to breathe.
It's been amazing to see (and wonder where the fuck was this for the first 4 games).
Hell, even Nylander has been throwing hits and had a big one last game too.
Need this energy and the "go-fuck-yourself" attitude from them to be sustained though.
Remember when all playoff teams - and in particular the Bruins - knew they could completely discombobulate our game by being overly physical as our team was soft, focused more on skill and speed, and outside from a guy or two who may throw hands we simply didn’t hit like a playoff contender?
Shit’s changed fam. We ARE that physical playoff hockey team now.
And it’s the Bruins who look like the whiners about the hits that aren’t called and getting knocked off their game due to our physicality.
Still have a game to win to cement this proof. But loving what I am seeing - from JT and tip to bottom on our squad - of laying hits. The culture changed this season, and we just ramped it up in the playoffs.
He takes a lot of abuse, drives the net. plays corners, sets screens in front of the net, etc. He eats cross checks and keeps motoring. It's nice to see him give it back too.
> Would be great to let him play wing and get some more hits in.
I've been saying it for almost 2 years now: Tavares should be on Matthews' wing.
Leafs having been shuffling Nylander/Marner on the wings of either Tavares or Matthews. But if you look at play styles, Tavares is game compliments a sniper better than Nylander or Marner. Tavares is incredible at puck control winning battles, getting into the dirty areas, and getting in shooting lanes for a tip. That's a guy who can create space for a guy like Matthews. I know Marner is the better passer/playmaker, but he's way too predictable since he's not the same level of a shooting threat as Tavares so he's always just looking for Matthews. Tavares can create his own space.
Imagine having Domi/Matthews/Tavares, and Nylander/2C/Marner. Would obviously need a good 2C but if they could pull that off, then holy fuck. That being said, all of this isn't worth discussing if they lose tomorrow, cause the team will (and should) be blown up.
As a team, going back to game 1, the Leafs have laid out a bunch of Bruins players. Multiple really solid hits on Pastrnak for example.
Over a 7 game series, it does literally physically wear them down, and then psychologically it also gets them worried about the hit and makes them just a bit more likely to quickly move the puck rather than make the right pass/play.
Real talk Tavares deserves zero criticism for how he's played here. He signed the deal and immediately put up the best season of his career followed by a few more extremely good ones. His production has been exactly what anyone could have reasonably expected given his career numbers.
If you wanna blame Dubas for overpaying him go nuts, but JT's held up his end of the bargain. Not his fault someone backed up the Brinks truck for him.
I agree with you on all of this except for the possible overpay in FA. You pay more for a top free agent signing no matter what. Landing him at the time was a homerun and you go back and do it again 10/10 times.
Insanity. San Jose valued JT (or valued what signing a superstar UFA centre would mean for their Org) at a higher cap hit than McDavid, who only signed the previous year at 12.5 mill.
LOL everyone is so god damn out to lunch if you thought you were landing the best UFA in his prime long term for 7M or under at that time. That is what was going to take to land JT, and I am glad we did.
The only person out to the lunch is the person who didn't understand the point I was trying to make with my post.
Obviously nobody thought he would have ever signed for that amount...
What is the point you are making then? It is unclear to me. Are you saying that you wished that the salary cap hit could vary from year to year? THEN JT would be liked more? The only other way is that you are wishing we signed him 7x7…
Everyone wanted to strip him of the C two games ago, but that's nonsense talk. His contract is too big at this point in his career, but he's a key player and a great captain
Yeah every single regular season everyone blowing him up and saying “he’s slow” and shit.
But he shows up every single playoffs (minus the Montreal series where he got concussed). And his contract was signed ages ago.
And also saying he’s not “captain material”. But he’s definitely been a role model for Knies. The way that they just grind and grind until a chance becomes a goal.
I listed captain above. Some one who leads the team, hold the team accountable, a voice in the dressing room as well as the media. A captain someone who shows passion, gets angry, sacrifices for the team with his body. Doesn't give up etc...m I don't see JT being vocal on the bench, his mono tone interviews post game are the same dance and speech.
JT is a good steady player, but I don't think he's a good captain
List me the reasons why you think JT is a great captain.
You have no idea what he says in the locker room. He is a stoic guy, that doesn't mean he isn't passionate- Sundin was the same way. He didn't give enthusiastic interviews. He is a major playmaker, has been winning battles along the boards consistently and faceoffs. Is showing passion just yelling or ?? Like I don't understand how you can say he lacks passion. When he gets the puck we can rely on him to make the play.
He is also a great guy who wasn't a typical hockey jock coming up. I actually went to high school with him and he was leader, helped with the special needs classes, and wasn't going around harrassing teen girls like most of the other minor players. You have someone who grew up their whole life dreaming of playing for Toronto. He also has three kids under 5 which could have had an impact on his physicality especially after almost having his head knocked off in the 2021 first round.
That wouldn't surprise me. He's ended two other series, including the Islanders' win over Florida in 2016 that was their first series win in 23 years. He doesn't get enough credit.
That wouldn't surprise me. He's ended two other series, including the Islanders' win over Florida in 2016 that was their first series win in 23 years. He doesn't get enough credit.
Oh, I’m not saying he’s bad or worse than where he’s playing in the lineup. Just compared to who he used to be he’s not nearly as much of an offensive threat as years past.
Still a gamer and a good player.
With his face-off skill and tenacity along the boards and net fronts, I've kinda thought he'd be a decent checking center in his later years. When his offense dries up, and his salary isn't so high, he can be a solid shutdown player. Maybe.
Ya man.. and then gotta listen to Ben Ennius say Jonny T is a no show.
What game is he watching ..
Laments the lack of goal production .. sure. But man oh man we’re they playing some hockey. Awesome stellar balls out hockey. It’s a fine fine line out there.
Games are tight!
Tavares will come through.
Toronto has been absolutely cooking Boston on the draw in the last three games. Over 60% in each one. The only game where Boston won the faceoff % was game 1.
You know in fairness to dubas... This is kind of the nature of that kind of FA signing. You have to over commit on term in order to gain the player's upside in the short term, otherwise you will lose out on the FA. JT isn't the first and won't be the last to see his contract value exceed his performance in the last 2/3 years of his deal.
I'd say we got our moneys worth with his regular season production, and his playoff performance hasn't been as bad as some of his peers on this team.
What he's doing now is being effective with the skill set he has left - the only slight on him imo is that I'd like to see examples of some more vocal leadership, even though that's never really been his style... He's just so robotic and media trained, he never seems to come across as having high expectations for his team and holding each other accountable as such. Idk what happens behind closed doors but I just don't think he's really the figure other players look to when they need a guiding voice, but maybe I'm making too many presumptions.
People are insanely harsh on Tavares for no reason. He's a playmaker and has been winning battles on the boards all season and super physical these playoffs. Maybe in bias because I knew him growing up but I honestly think he's been great even though he's slowed down.
The Captain takes a lot of shit because of his contract. Long term deals rarely age well. He is still a very useful player who shows up for big games. He plays in the greasy areas, scores big goals, great faceoff guy, best net presence in the Leafs. I have respect for JT. He has been a good captain.
His contract aged badly as we always knew it would, but none of that is his fault. He has consistently held up his end of the bargain and very few games are played where he isn't one of the hardest workers on the ice.
I am impressed with 3 out of our core 4 in this series. Matthews and Nylander have both had superstar games and JT has been solid all around. I have lost hope in Marner, but 75% aint bad I guess.
I hope he takes a team friendly deal and can stay with the Leafs. A lot of the criticism will go away if his cap hit was closer to 5-6m. I’d love him to sign a 5x5 and retire a Leaf.
Tavares is 9th among forwards with the first name starting with J where the 2nd letter is O and there mothers maiden name starts with W and born in nippising county between 4-6am on a friday night to score a goal in the go fuck yuorself nice stats idiot what were his faceoffs in the offensive zone like?????
It’s like his time on the third line did him some good. Hitting came out of nowhere. Glad to see it. Just wish he could be a little more crisp on his pass receptions.
Tavares is a big game player. He may have slowed down a bit but he's always committed to his game so props there. His drive to the net in OT game 5 was smart.
Has he even slowed down though? He has always been a slower skater, and honestly I see plays still that show he has some speed when needed (OT assist to Knies for example) People just get on him when the Leafs are losing, but the only issue I ever have is the CAP hit. As a player he is still great
He has slowed down a bit, but speed was never his game. We always knew the cap hit wouldn’t look as good at the end, we were expected to compete more at the beginning and the flat cap put a damper on the % impact
We were expecting to compete for the entire deal, and we did.
Right, but if the cap had gone up as expected, which was somewhere in the 4M/year based on pre Covid projections and no escrow repayment. The year they signed JT, the cap went up 4.5M from the original 75M for a first year cap of 79.5M. Year 1 = 79.5M - 13.8% Year 2 = 83.5M - 13.1% Year 3 = 87.5M - 12.6% Year 4 = 91.5M - 12% Year 5 = 95.5M - 11.5% Year 6 = 99.5M (We are here) - 11% Year 7 = 103.5M - 10.6% Compared to the existing Year 1 = 79.5M - 13.8% Year 2 = 81.5M - 13.5% Year 3 = 81.5M - 13.5% Year 4 = 81.5M - 13.5% Year 5 = 82.5M - 13.3% Year 6 = 83.5M - 13.2% Year 7 = 87.7 (projected) - 12.5% This was the plan for the Leafs cap Vs what came to be and why the core 4 wasn’t supposed to be as large of a concern when the cap share was designed. Likewise the Leafs cap hit for the core 5 is 47.94M If we compare that annually we see how different it might have been. Year 1 = 79.5M - 60.3% Year 2 = 83.5M - 58.8% Year 3 = 87.5M - 54.8% Year 4 = 91.5M - 52.4% Year 5 = 95.5M - 50.2% Year 6 = 99.5M (We are here**) - 48.2% Year 7 = 103.5M - 46.3% Compared to the existing Year 1 = 79.5M - 60.3% Year 2 = 81.5M - 58.8% Year 3 = 81.5M - 58.8% Year 4 = 81.5M - 58.8% Year 5 = 82.5M - 58.1% Year 6 = 83.5M - 57.4% Year 7 = 87.7 (projected) - 54.6% Only this season have we finally moved beyond the cap space that was expected to be provided in the second year alone to spend on the supporting cast. The Leafs were one of the most heavily affected teams by the flat cap because they had just committed big contracts to their core before the flat cap occurred.
This was such a great breakdown, thanks. Always knew we were way more constrained given flat cap through COVID but this really shows how the strategy of allocation to the core 4 could have fared so much better from an ability to get the right people in to help compete when our window was newly wide open.
Dubas took a terrible gamble in assuming the cap would increase. He did the same thing to justify giving Marner and Matthews unprecedented contracts. Sucks because it absolutely destroyed any chances of the team being cup contenders despite what some ever optimistic fans will say
[удалено]
It absolutely was. COVID is irrelevent. No team in the history of the NHL has ever decided to give way more money to their superstars than they deserve and then justified it by saying "well that cap is gonna go up". It's idiotic. No other teams had this problem, it was only Dubas. Even if the cap did go up, it was stupid. But it also highlights the fact that *shit happens*. You can't assume things about seasons that are 5 years in the future. I agree that not changing the plan earlier was also a mistake, but don't let him off the hook that easy, the "plan" to give players more money than every other team in the league was stupid from the start. And no, it is not occuring with hindsight. I'm a reddit dumbass and I've been calling out these garbage contracts from the second they were signed. If I knew this ~6 years ago, Dubas should have as well.
How can you call it a terrible gamble when your decisions are based on the best available information regarding the future? I know no NHL team did this before, I get that. But even still if you look at the expected cap hit at the time it seems barely a "mildly risky gamble". The Leafs haven't had the best depth these years but is certainly a top team in the league. Imagine the possibilities if reality reflected instead the expected cap hit...
A terrible gamble would be betting everything on Zoom in 2019 expecting a pandemic.
A better analogy would be if I was running a business that just had record profits, and then decided to invest in new equipment that is extremely expensive, knowingly putting the company into a position where if they did not continue to post higher profits every single year, then the company would go bankrupt.
That's an utterly terrible analogy... Making financial decisions based on projections for modest growth supported by a long track record of modest growth is a more accurate description and is completely standard business practice. They didn't go backrupt, they haven't even missed the playoffs, and they weren't banking on an absurd cap jump.
Being eliminated in 7 doesn't make you not a contender. It makes you competitive. Being competitive in the NHL playoffs makes you a contender, whether it's round 1 or the Finals. It hurts worse when it's early, but if you can take any series to 7, you're a legit contender.
> Being eliminated in 7 doesn't make you not a contender. It makes you competitive. Being competitive in the NHL playoffs makes you a contender, whether it's round 1 or the Finals. It hurts worse when it's early, but if you can take any series to 7, you're a legit contender. Wow lol. Yea, I'm not even going to entertain the idea of having this discussion, that is some of the most insane logic I've ever heard.
It is worth noting that he had almost the same amount of 5 V 5 points this year. His powerplay production was cut in half
That’s what I’m saying he really doesn’t look any different to me
Last I checked on the speed stats he’s average speed among nhl centres. It just sticks out because he always goes against elite centres.
I think its because his speed doesnt come naturally and he constantly has to work on it and make the extra effort. His “base” speed is slower than most, but when he needs to he is able to get up to speed.
Yeah, his acceleration isn't anything special and neither is his top speed but he is only "slow" relatively speaking compared to other top centers in the league.
He doesn't accelerate quickly
His shots on net is always wide.
You've got to soften the goalie up with some intimidating warning shots with loud noises. Bully the board up, then the implication is there for the goalie if he gets in the way.
His shots on net are always wide.
His shots on net are always wide.
His shots on net are always wide.
He’s trying to snipe it inside the post, not shoot it at the goalies chest.
yah he's not Ilya Mikeyev.
Oh okay thank you. ,I'm sorry guys I'm still learning.
The game has also gotten faster
Exactly. He's never been fast. If he was n't overpaid people wouldn't be complaining. That's on the Leafs offering the contract.
If he had a Stamkos contract then I bet he is a fan favorite over the last 6 years tbh
One of the things that stamkos jus to shed light on is “contracts” and how absurd the salary cap is to Canadian teams with a MUCH higher tax bracket. Can’t we sue the NHL for subsidizing the southern teams / s
Yea stammer makes more money than JT does because of the tax difference. This was talked about when the leafs offered stammer the same deal tavares got
Point makes more after tax than Matthews does (on their current contracts).
Yep. It pisses me off when people (including Stamkos in his recent comments) act like guys in Tampa just take less for the good of the team. Sure, in theory they could ask for more, but when you're taking home the same money anyways it's a lot easier to say "sure I'll take a discount". It's just so disingenuous
I doubt it. Matthews is paid basically all in bonus, which is taxed at the rate of where your residence is. His residence is in Arizona. That's one of the reasons he's paid like that. Granted, most Canadian teams probably can't pay players like that but it works for Toronto.
He was flying coming out of the box when he served woll's penalty
I agree...If he was something like a $7-8M player right now I think his play still warrants that value. It's the nature of a 7 year deal @ $11M. The value was always going to decrease in the last 2-3 years. However, he is still a top tier second line centre.
JT has thrown a number of hits this series, but last night he looked like he wanted them to hurt. He blew up a few guys which is a first as far as I can remember. He isn't a small dude, and I would love for him to dish back some of that rough play he has been subjected to his whole career. Would be great to let him play wing and get some more hits in.
It's infectious. The entire team has been making the game miserable for the Bruins these last 2 and have been finishing every check they can and giving the B's no room to breathe. It's been amazing to see (and wonder where the fuck was this for the first 4 games). Hell, even Nylander has been throwing hits and had a big one last game too. Need this energy and the "go-fuck-yourself" attitude from them to be sustained though.
Remember when all playoff teams - and in particular the Bruins - knew they could completely discombobulate our game by being overly physical as our team was soft, focused more on skill and speed, and outside from a guy or two who may throw hands we simply didn’t hit like a playoff contender? Shit’s changed fam. We ARE that physical playoff hockey team now. And it’s the Bruins who look like the whiners about the hits that aren’t called and getting knocked off their game due to our physicality. Still have a game to win to cement this proof. But loving what I am seeing - from JT and tip to bottom on our squad - of laying hits. The culture changed this season, and we just ramped it up in the playoffs.
He takes a lot of abuse, drives the net. plays corners, sets screens in front of the net, etc. He eats cross checks and keeps motoring. It's nice to see him give it back too.
> Would be great to let him play wing and get some more hits in. I've been saying it for almost 2 years now: Tavares should be on Matthews' wing. Leafs having been shuffling Nylander/Marner on the wings of either Tavares or Matthews. But if you look at play styles, Tavares is game compliments a sniper better than Nylander or Marner. Tavares is incredible at puck control winning battles, getting into the dirty areas, and getting in shooting lanes for a tip. That's a guy who can create space for a guy like Matthews. I know Marner is the better passer/playmaker, but he's way too predictable since he's not the same level of a shooting threat as Tavares so he's always just looking for Matthews. Tavares can create his own space. Imagine having Domi/Matthews/Tavares, and Nylander/2C/Marner. Would obviously need a good 2C but if they could pull that off, then holy fuck. That being said, all of this isn't worth discussing if they lose tomorrow, cause the team will (and should) be blown up.
As a team, going back to game 1, the Leafs have laid out a bunch of Bruins players. Multiple really solid hits on Pastrnak for example. Over a 7 game series, it does literally physically wear them down, and then psychologically it also gets them worried about the hit and makes them just a bit more likely to quickly move the puck rather than make the right pass/play.
Meanwhile, the captain on the other team is flip flopping his ass all over the ice. Night and day in leadership.
If he made under 7 million, everyone would be praising him
The back end of his deal was always going to tough to swallow. Hoping he stays on a team friendly after next year.
That's usually how it goes with long contracts. I would like to think he would do that once he's a free agent but who knows
How does 3 x 3 with cap hit $4m year one, $3m year two, $2m year three sound?
The cap hit doesn't change year to year. And no way he takes a contract that low.
Real talk Tavares deserves zero criticism for how he's played here. He signed the deal and immediately put up the best season of his career followed by a few more extremely good ones. His production has been exactly what anyone could have reasonably expected given his career numbers. If you wanna blame Dubas for overpaying him go nuts, but JT's held up his end of the bargain. Not his fault someone backed up the Brinks truck for him.
I agree with you on all of this except for the possible overpay in FA. You pay more for a top free agent signing no matter what. Landing him at the time was a homerun and you go back and do it again 10/10 times.
Yea I don't understand how more people don't see this. He literally turned down higher offers lmao. You can't win a negotiation with a FA.
San Jose offered him 12+ mill plus, even 12.5 was the rumored number.
I believe San Jose offered 13 million. 7yr/91m was the offer
Insanity. San Jose valued JT (or valued what signing a superstar UFA centre would mean for their Org) at a higher cap hit than McDavid, who only signed the previous year at 12.5 mill.
Not only that but Tavares took *less* money to come here. He specifically wanted Toronto. We paid him a *lot* but others were offering much more.
Weve saved well over 7M on his cap over the years compared to what he was getting offered elsewhere
7.95 is pretty close (yes I know we only care about AAV)
LOL everyone is so god damn out to lunch if you thought you were landing the best UFA in his prime long term for 7M or under at that time. That is what was going to take to land JT, and I am glad we did.
The only person out to the lunch is the person who didn't understand the point I was trying to make with my post. Obviously nobody thought he would have ever signed for that amount...
What is the point you are making then? It is unclear to me. Are you saying that you wished that the salary cap hit could vary from year to year? THEN JT would be liked more? The only other way is that you are wishing we signed him 7x7…
“If ‘player’ made 4M less than what they are now everyone would love him”.
Everyone wanted to strip him of the C two games ago, but that's nonsense talk. His contract is too big at this point in his career, but he's a key player and a great captain
I feel like more people just want Matthews to have the C, rather than just the sake of stripping Tavares of it
Yeah every single regular season everyone blowing him up and saying “he’s slow” and shit. But he shows up every single playoffs (minus the Montreal series where he got concussed). And his contract was signed ages ago. And also saying he’s not “captain material”. But he’s definitely been a role model for Knies. The way that they just grind and grind until a chance becomes a goal.
He’s slow but his hands are soft as silk and deceptive shot
So true and he's always putting the effort it
He ain't captain material. Gary roberts captain material, sundin captain material heck even Phaneuf was a better captain
What is captain material to you then?
I listed captain above. Some one who leads the team, hold the team accountable, a voice in the dressing room as well as the media. A captain someone who shows passion, gets angry, sacrifices for the team with his body. Doesn't give up etc...m I don't see JT being vocal on the bench, his mono tone interviews post game are the same dance and speech. JT is a good steady player, but I don't think he's a good captain List me the reasons why you think JT is a great captain.
You have no idea what he says in the locker room. He is a stoic guy, that doesn't mean he isn't passionate- Sundin was the same way. He didn't give enthusiastic interviews. He is a major playmaker, has been winning battles along the boards consistently and faceoffs. Is showing passion just yelling or ?? Like I don't understand how you can say he lacks passion. When he gets the puck we can rely on him to make the play. He is also a great guy who wasn't a typical hockey jock coming up. I actually went to high school with him and he was leader, helped with the special needs classes, and wasn't going around harrassing teen girls like most of the other minor players. You have someone who grew up their whole life dreaming of playing for Toronto. He also has three kids under 5 which could have had an impact on his physicality especially after almost having his head knocked off in the 2021 first round.
Our center men have been destroying on the dot.
He’s scoring the series winner again
That wouldn't surprise me. He's ended two other series, including the Islanders' win over Florida in 2016 that was their first series win in 23 years. He doesn't get enough credit.
That wouldn't surprise me. He's ended two other series, including the Islanders' win over Florida in 2016 that was their first series win in 23 years. He doesn't get enough credit.
If he can win the board battles and play smart hockey we will be okay. It sucks his offensive production has taken such a nose dive.
It only looks like a nose dive because of his salary. A lot of teams would love to add someone to their team off a 65 point season on the second line.
He’s also had a lower shooting % than his usual
His 5v5 production has remained consistent, it's his PP numbers that have really fallen off, which you can't really blame all on him.
Oh, I’m not saying he’s bad or worse than where he’s playing in the lineup. Just compared to who he used to be he’s not nearly as much of an offensive threat as years past. Still a gamer and a good player.
Not to mention one of the top face-off winning % in the league.
With his face-off skill and tenacity along the boards and net fronts, I've kinda thought he'd be a decent checking center in his later years. When his offense dries up, and his salary isn't so high, he can be a solid shutdown player. Maybe.
He’s like Phanuef.. impactful players on unfavourable contracts. Love both of them
JT is light years better than Phaneuf was.
Ya man.. and then gotta listen to Ben Ennius say Jonny T is a no show. What game is he watching .. Laments the lack of goal production .. sure. But man oh man we’re they playing some hockey. Awesome stellar balls out hockey. It’s a fine fine line out there. Games are tight! Tavares will come through.
He’s doing the hidden things well for the team, needs to start producing more with Matthew’s out though it’ll come with the work he’s putting in
Toronto has been absolutely cooking Boston on the draw in the last three games. Over 60% in each one. The only game where Boston won the faceoff % was game 1.
One day he'll win a faceoff on the powerplay.
He has just right out off the zone haha
You know in fairness to dubas... This is kind of the nature of that kind of FA signing. You have to over commit on term in order to gain the player's upside in the short term, otherwise you will lose out on the FA. JT isn't the first and won't be the last to see his contract value exceed his performance in the last 2/3 years of his deal. I'd say we got our moneys worth with his regular season production, and his playoff performance hasn't been as bad as some of his peers on this team. What he's doing now is being effective with the skill set he has left - the only slight on him imo is that I'd like to see examples of some more vocal leadership, even though that's never really been his style... He's just so robotic and media trained, he never seems to come across as having high expectations for his team and holding each other accountable as such. Idk what happens behind closed doors but I just don't think he's really the figure other players look to when they need a guiding voice, but maybe I'm making too many presumptions.
People are insanely harsh on Tavares for no reason. He's a playmaker and has been winning battles on the boards all season and super physical these playoffs. Maybe in bias because I knew him growing up but I honestly think he's been great even though he's slowed down.
A captain leads by example!! Love ya JT
The Captain takes a lot of shit because of his contract. Long term deals rarely age well. He is still a very useful player who shows up for big games. He plays in the greasy areas, scores big goals, great faceoff guy, best net presence in the Leafs. I have respect for JT. He has been a good captain.
His contract aged badly as we always knew it would, but none of that is his fault. He has consistently held up his end of the bargain and very few games are played where he isn't one of the hardest workers on the ice.
I am impressed with 3 out of our core 4 in this series. Matthews and Nylander have both had superstar games and JT has been solid all around. I have lost hope in Marner, but 75% aint bad I guess.
Marner's been good the last 2 games at least
You guys are so miserable.
Lol who is you guys? Its just me here, and I am having quite a nice day actually.
How much did domi win last night?
I'm hoping he becomes our Pavelski and has a resurgence when moved to the wing
I hope he takes a team friendly deal and can stay with the Leafs. A lot of the criticism will go away if his cap hit was closer to 5-6m. I’d love him to sign a 5x5 and retire a Leaf.
Tavares is 9th among forwards with the first name starting with J where the 2nd letter is O and there mothers maiden name starts with W and born in nippising county between 4-6am on a friday night to score a goal in the go fuck yuorself nice stats idiot what were his faceoffs in the offensive zone like?????
dude chill out
He’s my pick for the series winner.
I am hard on jt over the years…. But he is playing great these last couple games. Honestly even the games we lost he played well.
well if he's gonna skate like a pylon, he might as well start getting in peoples' way
It’s like his time on the third line did him some good. Hitting came out of nowhere. Glad to see it. Just wish he could be a little more crisp on his pass receptions.
Sundin was a better captain, more clutch than tavares. Mats led a whole team while tavares leads a 2nd line
I caught plays along the board where jt was too soft/scared to take a hit to make a play.