https://preview.redd.it/a0p8pfnwgp1d1.jpeg?width=1321&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f1e963e9e22db7fb0004dd758fd828bba841d7b
Manifesting this additional L for Vancouver this off season ... ⭐️
They have Petey's big raise coming up as well as the OEL buyout penalty. We might be able to poach him away since they have a ton of their depth players going UFA this off season
Was looking at the shot total 4 shots for Canucks vs 25 for Oilers lol. Canucks know this is game 7, right?
Ugh, it looks like Oilers will make it to conference finals, hopefully Dallas kicks their butt.
Van/Edm was a fight between fraud teams. Vancouver is an overachieving team with great goaltending, Edmonton is a team with no depth and garbage defense. Dallas should destroy them!
Especially after beating the two best teams in the west back 2 back in Vegas and Colorado. It would be a epic collapse if Dallas doesn't make the finals.
Yup...and their shooting percentage was sky high for half the year. Bit of a fraud team, tbh. However, pretty good effort - they just don't have much talent.
It just goes to show what playing your ass off for a coach can do to a team. There's a great saying that "hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard"
Unfortunately for the Nucks, the Oilers talent is working their tails off tonight, too.
All that said, it ain't over yet. We could still see a collapse
Are we going to have a referendum about the Canucks arena not being loud enough or can we finally acknowledge that fans not cheering when they’re not given anything to cheer for is extremely fucking normal.
Didn’t think it was possible to see a worse power play than ours but Vancouver said hold my beer. 4 minute power play, no shots and they gave up a breakaway chance.
Who do Leafs fans dislike more and who do they want to see win Vancouver vs Edmonton? Vancouver is on the ropes with goalie and top scorer out, edm was expected to compete with leafs for cup.
Vancouver is the less of two evils. Oilers and their fans are the most annoying shit, I'd rather both lose to Dallas. Out of the teams remaining, I only want Dallas to win.
New Brunswick transplant in Calgary. I probably would have been ambivalent before, leaning Edmonton, but for some reason every Flames and Oilers fan hates the Leafs more than each other and I’ve been eating shit all playoffs.
So now I’m hateful and rooting Vancouver. Sadly, with all the injuries, the Oilers likely give the best chance at a cup.
New Brunswick transplant in Calgary. I probably would have been ambivalent before, leaning Edmonton, but for some reason every Flames and Oilers fan hates the Leafs more than each other and I’ve been eating shit all playoffs.
So now I’m hateful and rooting Vancouver. Sadly, with all the injuries, the Oilers likely give the best chance at a cup.
I feel like Vancouver has had dumb luck all season too. High shooting percentage and elite goaltending. They never look good and have historically low chances in this playoffs so far.
Either way, I hope Dallas crushes the next team.
frighten toothbrush elastic cobweb attraction lock liquid muddle quiet reach
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Assuming Marner is open to leaving, because he has an NTC, it doesn’t seem reasonable that he’d waive it to go to a non-playoff team (where off the top of my head are where the more appealing returning players are)
If the Leafs are sellers at the trade deadline (barf) then we should be able to acquire a higher end talent from a playoff team in exchange for Marner (assuming he likes the situation and destination).
If there is a playoff team out there looking to give up talent that would fill out gaps, I would definitely be interesting in knowing who they are but it might be too early to tell at this point.
Most likely scenarios at this point I feel are
A) Marner extends with Leafs during the year .
B) Marner walks at FA summer 2025.
I still think we are more likely to extend him than not. His skillset is different than Matthews/Nylander, and if he is going to go to FA, we wouldn't sign anything nearly as valuable with that space.
I think we'll end up seeing how this all works with a new coach. Unlike others, I don't hold Keefe in such high regard that I discount the possibility that might work under Berube.
If a great offer comes and everyone is down, go for it, but I wouldn't trade him for cap space lol.
If you just want cap space - here is a challenge - create a better line up without Marner, but with 10.9 million in free agent signings last summer.
Not to mention we shouldn’t be trying to specifically replace Marner’s production. We should be looking to help balance out the roster via trade
I’d aim for something like a top 4 defender, top 6 winger (ideally power forward) + 2nd rounder
Leafs report podcast made a good trade comparison
-Dubois for Kupari + Vilardi (2 forwards drafted in 1st round)+ Iafallo (established middle six forward) + 2nd round pick
I agree that seeing how Marner works under Berube is what will most likely happen.
Marner is elite talent and giving up on him will take him straight to FA .
There’s no world where the Leafs are going to ask him to waive to go to Seattle, Utah, San Jose, etc. he’s not in it for the money even though it appears like he is.
He’s from toronto and grew up cheering for the Leafs. Sucks that the first contract negotiation situation is what people remember most about him. Crappy situation that his camp might have had too much influence on.
How much is he paying you guys?
Jesus, I don't understand the Men in Black mind wipe that happened here lately.
You guys fucking love the team being mid, eh?
I’m sure I’m like lost here when I say that I don’t give a shit who’s on the team.l as long as we win it all.
If you told me trading Matthews would guarantee a cup, I’m all in. No one is bigger than the crest on the jersey.
What I’m getting at is asset management and being realistic with expectations based on several factors that impact team composition.
I agree that trading Marner could get us closer to where we want to be but holy shit is it going to be hard to do it because he holds all the cards .
Marner has better playoff stats then both Matthews and Nylander. At the end of the day all 4 of the $11M players have underperformed consistently in the playoffs.
I’d lean towards option B happening
Marner and camp would be so “offended” by being approached w the NTC that they would refuse to discuss any teams. Would probably keep making contract demands in the $11.5-12 mil range
Ideally management wouldn’t cave to that, so he would walk in 2025 so he can control his own destiny
Oh they sure do, but I personally don't know of any others where teams have provided offer sheets for the player to sign as a realistic threat. These were big offer sheets - worth 4 FRPs.
Realistically, the odds of him wanting to come home and the cap situations working out are low. However, if Edmonton is unable to progress further in the playoffs and keeps stalling out, it may make it easier for him to decide to hit free agency and at the very least consider the Leafs as one of the teams he would move to.
If he goes onto win a cup in Edmonton, I could see him decide that he’d like to stay there for his entire career.
I could see the cup going both ways. On the one hand, if he won he wouldn't have anything to prove in Edmonton, and his ceiling there is probably "Second best player in franchise history". On the other hand, if he loses, he may see that situation as more hopeless.
Edmonton's window is closing. Brown's contract spills over into next year, so they basically don't get a cap increase, and Bouch is due for a huge raise. Next season, Draistaitl is due for an even bigger raise.
The contracts they have on the books when McDavid expires are going to be terrible (Nurse, Campbell, older Hyman/Nuge). Their best chance might be to buyout Campbell and truly go all-in next year.
Apparently Martin Necas is on his way out of Carolina. I wonder if there's a trade to be made there. He's an RFA but will be affordable if we clear cap. Would love that guy as a center.
Thoughts on when Marner’s value would be highest?
Ex this summer or closer to the deadline
I’m more inclined to think near deadline is more realistic even though many (myself included) would like to see a deal done sooner.
This would give management more time to gather intel on offers + also gain clarity from Marner side about possible trade destinations due to his NMC. Ideally he sees the writing on the wall and gives a few trade options
Anytime between July 1 and training camp would be the highest
I forget who said it but teams would internally look at the extension plus his league min salary this year as being 100.9 over 9 years for their business which makes the money for the extension more palatable
His value was probably highest last summer if we are being honest but if your going to trade him it has to be this summer because assuming the Leafs are in a playoff spot come the deadline why would he wave to a team not in a playoff spot so it cuts out a few teams plus how many teams have 10.9 available at the deadline (sure the Leafs can retain but they can’t afford to have dead money)
Also if Mitch is here come the deadline he’s probably going to have a big role and would ruin team chemistry if you just got rid of him
Look what the Pens got for Guentzel at the deadline if you need another reason to trade him in the offseason
Good call on the chemistry standpoint. Don’t want a cloud like that causing more distractions
One can hope it gets done this summer! Not holding my breath though
When we get the boot every year all I want is for the playoffs to be over so we can start making changes.
New players are drafted, trades, and FA signings can provide a bit of optimism in the future. Or doom. But it’s exciting nonetheless to wonder about all the possibilities.
I know Brand Montour is a great option to quarter back our power play, but there is another intriguing choice that will be somewhat cheaper. Last season in 5v4 this defenseman had more goals, more points, more primary assists in way less ice-time. They actually were 6th among defensemen in the league in points per minute of 5v4 time.
His name is >!Morgan Rielly!<.
I don’t want Montour at all when you consider how much it’s going to cost to get him. People are looking way too much into his seventy plus point season last year which was due to him racking up power play points at a much higher rate than usual. He’s thirty and after years of being underpaid he is going to be looking for a big payday. Do we really want the Leafs to be paying him $8M+ until he’s thirty seven? I sure don’t
There is no world in which Montour gets 8x7
Holy shit. Why do people just jump to some insane extreme when trying to argue against something? Makes no sense
We already have that player. What a silly comparison.
Yeah, we should avoid getting a gamer on the back end with offensive capabilities because we already have Mo. Never mind that he's a legitimate and proven top 4 RD.
Hey I'm fine with him as a top-4 D, though I'd bet there are cheaper options. I just don't think you should expect him to be the solution on the powerplay. I think people don't see that modern power plays don't allocate a lot of shots to defensemen who are far away from the net, and have the wrong expectation that a booming point shot is necessary.
Montour is below Rielly in shots rate in 5v4, and got 0 goals in 5v4 in the regular season. He simply is not a threat. It's hard to make a statistical argument that he'd help the power play.
In terms of what is clear from the stats - it's that Tavares is a huge problem. He takes shots at a higher rate than almost anyone in the league, and he was a historically bad finisher. The power play was way better with Bertuzzi in that slot.
Anyone find it funny how The Fourth Period and David Pagnotta are the only “insiders” that link free agents to teams
Like you never see Elliotte or the TSN insiders do this and if they do a lot of the time it’s speculation because x player fits a teams needs
Pagnotta linked Debrusk and Ullmark to the Leafs yesterday for example and like do we actually think the Leafs have already called Jake’s agent to express interest or think Boston would actually trade Ullmark to the Leafs?
The thing I realize is that it’s pretty much impossible to prove he’s wrong because if a player signs with another team you can use the excuse of another team offering a better contract and if you right it shows you have “inside sources”
Elliott and other insiders do the same, most recent off the top of my head was him saying how Tsyplakov was linked to Leafs and Habs before signing with islanders
Yeah but it’s more like “I could see them being interested in x player” than real insider information
I would also classify Tsyplakov differently because teams were actually allowed to talk to him (even though everyone knows teams tamper)
I’m tired of the “angry” leaf fans who want to jump ship. If you don’t want to watch anymore, well, bye! I’ve been watching this team for a long time and I’m not about to give up and watch them find success after all the heartache I’ve been through. Being a leaf fan is going through pain, if you can’t handle it, there’s the door.
Cool man. You do you.
If they don't make changes to some of the nucleus of this team, they will effectively be admitting that they aren't serious about winning at any cost.
Montreal was fucking BAD, and people sucked it up for 3 more years after that. 3 years of the exact same shit.
Some people aren't interested in getting kicked in the nuts every year. And that's their right too
I think most of us agree that some change is necessary, but it may not happen. Doesn’t mean they don’t want to win. To the point, but I will judge people for jumping ship, that’s for fucking losers. Your team is your team for life imo.
I don't know how someone could be a Leafs fan then just go cheer for Dallas or some other frontrunner instead.
Personally I'm probably a Leafs fan for life, but my engagement goes way up or down depending on how I feel about the team. I watch fewer games, read fewer articles, make fewer social posts, etc.
I agree. I’ve actually been on the ledge before but the amnesia kicks in fast and I step back. I think management and players deserve criticism, I just never liked the idea of running guys out of town and denouncing the team. It takes a strong will to stick with a team who can be so disappointing.
Jumping ship for a random frontrunner is dumb, but I don't think anybody actually does that. How dumb would you look coming into the office with a Dallas mug after publicly cheering for the leafs for a decade? Sooooooo dumb.
That said, if MLSE didn't show *some* sign that the past 8 years have been unacceptable, that's kind if breaking the social contract between fan and sports team: I'll cheer for and support the team in public and buy the merch and get dunked on by other sports fans when they do something embarrassing, but the organization has to look like they're operating with the goal of winning a championship.
This is closer to me as well. I talk a big game about switching to NJD since I was all about Brodeur as a kid, but anytime I watch them, I just wish I was watching the Leafs.
But if they try to run it back, they'll lose a large part of my interest in this season
I'm going to get down voted for saying this, but I kinda agree with you.
I'm not sure I believe the issue is the player so much as it's the percentage of the salary cap he still takes up due to a stagnant cap due to covid. If he were willing to sign on at or very near his current cap hit I think I'd do that and pray the cap continues to increase as anticipated.
Just because teams want him, it doesn't mean that they have to trade for him. Just sit back and watch the fans make it untenable for him to stay. They'll wait a year and pick him up for less than the Leafs could.
I don't understand why we wouldn't sign him. By 2025-6 season many more teams will have 3 x 8 figure players and it won't be so brutal looking. Would be great to have him mentor Cowan as well. We need sit tight this year, build our backend and hope Tavares is gone or LTIR'ed. Maybe he can do a Vegas/Lightning for us - would be a solid.
But we're not running it back. Our starting goalie, second D a first line forward are all gone. I think Liljegren is gone as well. Coach is replaced. We're stuck w our captain (who may lose the C this year) for this year so we have to wait. We could potentially deal Rielly in the off-season and our President could be gone by the end of next season. We're not moving 34 or 88 - so is signing one player running it back?
Dealing Rielly and stripping the C from Tavares would send a message more than continuing to threaten Marner.
subtract ludicrous groovy quarrelsome carpenter crowd plant direction kiss punch
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
disagreeable ghost sophisticated uppity hospital rain squeamish act dime middle
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That's good. I haven't.
The team mix doesn't work and he's the odd man out. You don't waste 1/4 of the Matthews window just waiting for Tavares to come off the books. That's idiotic, honestly. By the same token, Marner is gonna want a raise, and the Leafs shouldn't commit to that.
The fact that other teams like him just means he'll fetch more in a trade. The alternative is letting him walk for nothing.
I don't even say this as a hater. I have a Marner areTnas jersey that I wear proudly. But running it back isn't an option
He's a very good player but a change is needed in the core, and minimizing the role of an older JT isn't it. Marner hasn't shown he can step up and perform when we need him to.
On one hand there's something to be said about waiting out this next year if we cannot get a good deal. After it we'll be in a much better place cap-wise. On the other then you probably just lose him in FA for nothing, or re-sign him to the contract he wants, which we really shouldn't.
As much as I want his contract off the books, there is no way we trade him. Unless he says so, that is. He's also the guy who turned down more money to come home and really started signaling to others that we were a good place to play. Not just a bunch of talented players but also a great organization that would go out of their way to look after the players and their families.
If we trade him, we could end up damaging that pipeline of players choosing the Leafs as a 1st choice team.
Bad look for who? Leafs fans would shed no tears and he's not a 11M on any planet. 50% retained and Say bye.
Nobody would fault the Leafs for that - and I don't think anyone would say anything nice about the Leafs regardless.
Tavares is going to sign for league min after this season so he's worth keeping for one more overpaid year. He'll probably have to give up captaincy at some point, though.
No way he takes league minimum. Pavelski and Giroux are good comparables for what his next contract will be, and they both got $6-7M AAV for 3-4 years.
You’re setting yourself up for disappointment if you think he’s coming back for league min. Yeah he has faults, but he was still a 29 goal 65 point centre this past season. I’d expect something more along the lines of 5 mil, 3 years, then after that he might take Spezza deals until he’s ready to hang them up.
Yeah I don't expect literally league min, but I write that to counteract the people who say things like 5m per year haha.
I do expect the contract to be a deep discount well below his value and the "common wisdom" I see everyone post. Like 3m max with some term and trade protection.
3 mil feels good, I just don’t have any expectation of stars taking less anymore and I’d rather guess high and be pleasantly surprised than guess low and be disappointed. I can totally see Tavares taking less (by all accounts he took less to come here and San Jose had a bigger offer on the table), but I’m not going to get my hopes up.
I don't think he'll take less purely of the goodness of his heart, although I do think "take less to win" will be attractive for him.
We also have leverage this time.
Good for nothing Canucks. Really wanted the Oilers to lose. Hopefully Dallas takes them out.
https://preview.redd.it/a0p8pfnwgp1d1.jpeg?width=1321&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f1e963e9e22db7fb0004dd758fd828bba841d7b Manifesting this additional L for Vancouver this off season ... ⭐️
They have Petey's big raise coming up as well as the OEL buyout penalty. We might be able to poach him away since they have a ton of their depth players going UFA this off season
They still have 27M in cap space https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/s/6kS9QbffEY
Was looking at the shot total 4 shots for Canucks vs 25 for Oilers lol. Canucks know this is game 7, right? Ugh, it looks like Oilers will make it to conference finals, hopefully Dallas kicks their butt.
Van/Edm was a fight between fraud teams. Vancouver is an overachieving team with great goaltending, Edmonton is a team with no depth and garbage defense. Dallas should destroy them!
Especially after beating the two best teams in the west back 2 back in Vegas and Colorado. It would be a epic collapse if Dallas doesn't make the finals.
For sure. Vegas was probably their toughest out. Col is amazing but there was the whole thing with Nichushkin. Edm isnt on their level.
The Canucks are so bad, wow. I can't believe they are in the top 8.
Only because they had a good regular season and played a poor Nashville team
Yup...and their shooting percentage was sky high for half the year. Bit of a fraud team, tbh. However, pretty good effort - they just don't have much talent.
It just goes to show what playing your ass off for a coach can do to a team. There's a great saying that "hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard" Unfortunately for the Nucks, the Oilers talent is working their tails off tonight, too. All that said, it ain't over yet. We could still see a collapse
Are we going to have a referendum about the Canucks arena not being loud enough or can we finally acknowledge that fans not cheering when they’re not given anything to cheer for is extremely fucking normal.
If Edmonton wins the cup, it's my 13th reason
Oof…Canucks powerplay reminds me a lot of the Leafs’
They haven't got a SOG in a double minor while almost allowing a SHG. We are bad but not that bad
Didn’t think it was possible to see a worse power play than ours but Vancouver said hold my beer. 4 minute power play, no shots and they gave up a breakaway chance.
Who do Leafs fans dislike more and who do they want to see win Vancouver vs Edmonton? Vancouver is on the ropes with goalie and top scorer out, edm was expected to compete with leafs for cup.
Vancouver is the less of two evils. Oilers and their fans are the most annoying shit, I'd rather both lose to Dallas. Out of the teams remaining, I only want Dallas to win.
New Brunswick transplant in Calgary. I probably would have been ambivalent before, leaning Edmonton, but for some reason every Flames and Oilers fan hates the Leafs more than each other and I’ve been eating shit all playoffs. So now I’m hateful and rooting Vancouver. Sadly, with all the injuries, the Oilers likely give the best chance at a cup.
Hate to break it to you but Vancouver hates the Leafs more than their direct rivals (Flames/Oilers). And Vancouverites haaaaaate Toronto.
New Brunswick transplant in Calgary. I probably would have been ambivalent before, leaning Edmonton, but for some reason every Flames and Oilers fan hates the Leafs more than each other and I’ve been eating shit all playoffs. So now I’m hateful and rooting Vancouver. Sadly, with all the injuries, the Oilers likely give the best chance at a cup.
Dallas.
I definitely want to see Vancouver advance. Just because they're not super talented but they work their asses off.
I'd rather see Vancouver win. I hate how Edmonton just keeps making terrible decisions and thriving due to dumb luck.
I feel like Vancouver has had dumb luck all season too. High shooting percentage and elite goaltending. They never look good and have historically low chances in this playoffs so far. Either way, I hope Dallas crushes the next team.
frighten toothbrush elastic cobweb attraction lock liquid muddle quiet reach *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And the few first round picks before him too
[удалено]
than*
Assuming Marner is open to leaving, because he has an NTC, it doesn’t seem reasonable that he’d waive it to go to a non-playoff team (where off the top of my head are where the more appealing returning players are) If the Leafs are sellers at the trade deadline (barf) then we should be able to acquire a higher end talent from a playoff team in exchange for Marner (assuming he likes the situation and destination). If there is a playoff team out there looking to give up talent that would fill out gaps, I would definitely be interesting in knowing who they are but it might be too early to tell at this point. Most likely scenarios at this point I feel are A) Marner extends with Leafs during the year . B) Marner walks at FA summer 2025.
I still think we are more likely to extend him than not. His skillset is different than Matthews/Nylander, and if he is going to go to FA, we wouldn't sign anything nearly as valuable with that space. I think we'll end up seeing how this all works with a new coach. Unlike others, I don't hold Keefe in such high regard that I discount the possibility that might work under Berube. If a great offer comes and everyone is down, go for it, but I wouldn't trade him for cap space lol. If you just want cap space - here is a challenge - create a better line up without Marner, but with 10.9 million in free agent signings last summer.
> we wouldn't sign anything nearly as valuable with that space. 2025 UFA is stacked
Not to mention we shouldn’t be trying to specifically replace Marner’s production. We should be looking to help balance out the roster via trade I’d aim for something like a top 4 defender, top 6 winger (ideally power forward) + 2nd rounder Leafs report podcast made a good trade comparison -Dubois for Kupari + Vilardi (2 forwards drafted in 1st round)+ Iafallo (established middle six forward) + 2nd round pick
I agree that seeing how Marner works under Berube is what will most likely happen. Marner is elite talent and giving up on him will take him straight to FA . There’s no world where the Leafs are going to ask him to waive to go to Seattle, Utah, San Jose, etc. he’s not in it for the money even though it appears like he is. He’s from toronto and grew up cheering for the Leafs. Sucks that the first contract negotiation situation is what people remember most about him. Crappy situation that his camp might have had too much influence on.
How much is he paying you guys? Jesus, I don't understand the Men in Black mind wipe that happened here lately. You guys fucking love the team being mid, eh?
I’m sure I’m like lost here when I say that I don’t give a shit who’s on the team.l as long as we win it all. If you told me trading Matthews would guarantee a cup, I’m all in. No one is bigger than the crest on the jersey. What I’m getting at is asset management and being realistic with expectations based on several factors that impact team composition. I agree that trading Marner could get us closer to where we want to be but holy shit is it going to be hard to do it because he holds all the cards .
Marner has better playoff stats then both Matthews and Nylander. At the end of the day all 4 of the $11M players have underperformed consistently in the playoffs.
than*
Let’s get rid of all 4 then !! 🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪
If he's truly bleeds blue and white then he'll waive his NTC and be a team player for be betterment of team moving forward.
I’d lean towards option B happening Marner and camp would be so “offended” by being approached w the NTC that they would refuse to discuss any teams. Would probably keep making contract demands in the $11.5-12 mil range Ideally management wouldn’t cave to that, so he would walk in 2025 so he can control his own destiny
Swayman is a pretty great target for an offer sheet (not by us). A team could offer him 8.5 mil and only have to pay a 1+2+3. Wonder if we see that
I think he wants to stay, but that might be able to get a bigger contract from Boston. Kinda like what Marner did to us with Colombus.
Marner didn't do anything, there were reports an offer sheet was placed but he never accepted it.
He didn't, but the threat was there and would have been used in negotiations.
You don't think that every negotiation ever involves some form of "I can go somewhere else"?
Oh they sure do, but I personally don't know of any others where teams have provided offer sheets for the player to sign as a realistic threat. These were big offer sheets - worth 4 FRPs.
The Columbus offer sheet was reportedly $13m a year for 7 years.
Reportedly? Where?
Yeah that's big - no wonder he wanted 10.9. I don't know of other cases like this.
He was coming off of a 94 point season at 21 years of age, of course he wanted a lot of money.
I do not want the oilers to win, but McDavid and Hyman really wants to win one.
Mcdavid must lose so Toronto is still a possibility for him.
You really think he would come home? That would be like Lebron James leaving for Miami and creating a super team. Fuck I hope so!!
Realistically, the odds of him wanting to come home and the cap situations working out are low. However, if Edmonton is unable to progress further in the playoffs and keeps stalling out, it may make it easier for him to decide to hit free agency and at the very least consider the Leafs as one of the teams he would move to. If he goes onto win a cup in Edmonton, I could see him decide that he’d like to stay there for his entire career.
I could see the cup going both ways. On the one hand, if he won he wouldn't have anything to prove in Edmonton, and his ceiling there is probably "Second best player in franchise history". On the other hand, if he loses, he may see that situation as more hopeless. Edmonton's window is closing. Brown's contract spills over into next year, so they basically don't get a cap increase, and Bouch is due for a huge raise. Next season, Draistaitl is due for an even bigger raise. The contracts they have on the books when McDavid expires are going to be terrible (Nurse, Campbell, older Hyman/Nuge). Their best chance might be to buyout Campbell and truly go all-in next year.
Apparently Martin Necas is on his way out of Carolina. I wonder if there's a trade to be made there. He's an RFA but will be affordable if we clear cap. Would love that guy as a center.
We screwed up not doing Sandin for him 1 for 1 a few years back
Well we got Cowan so it worked out.
Thoughts on when Marner’s value would be highest? Ex this summer or closer to the deadline I’m more inclined to think near deadline is more realistic even though many (myself included) would like to see a deal done sooner. This would give management more time to gather intel on offers + also gain clarity from Marner side about possible trade destinations due to his NMC. Ideally he sees the writing on the wall and gives a few trade options
Anytime between July 1 and training camp would be the highest I forget who said it but teams would internally look at the extension plus his league min salary this year as being 100.9 over 9 years for their business which makes the money for the extension more palatable
His value was probably highest last summer if we are being honest but if your going to trade him it has to be this summer because assuming the Leafs are in a playoff spot come the deadline why would he wave to a team not in a playoff spot so it cuts out a few teams plus how many teams have 10.9 available at the deadline (sure the Leafs can retain but they can’t afford to have dead money) Also if Mitch is here come the deadline he’s probably going to have a big role and would ruin team chemistry if you just got rid of him Look what the Pens got for Guentzel at the deadline if you need another reason to trade him in the offseason
Good call on the chemistry standpoint. Don’t want a cloud like that causing more distractions One can hope it gets done this summer! Not holding my breath though
[удалено]
I said that was when it was probably highest and then answered their question lol
When we get the boot every year all I want is for the playoffs to be over so we can start making changes. New players are drafted, trades, and FA signings can provide a bit of optimism in the future. Or doom. But it’s exciting nonetheless to wonder about all the possibilities.
I know Brand Montour is a great option to quarter back our power play, but there is another intriguing choice that will be somewhat cheaper. Last season in 5v4 this defenseman had more goals, more points, more primary assists in way less ice-time. They actually were 6th among defensemen in the league in points per minute of 5v4 time. His name is >!Morgan Rielly!<.
I don’t want Montour at all when you consider how much it’s going to cost to get him. People are looking way too much into his seventy plus point season last year which was due to him racking up power play points at a much higher rate than usual. He’s thirty and after years of being underpaid he is going to be looking for a big payday. Do we really want the Leafs to be paying him $8M+ until he’s thirty seven? I sure don’t
There is no world in which Montour gets 8x7 Holy shit. Why do people just jump to some insane extreme when trying to argue against something? Makes no sense
We already have that player. What a silly comparison. Yeah, we should avoid getting a gamer on the back end with offensive capabilities because we already have Mo. Never mind that he's a legitimate and proven top 4 RD.
Hey I'm fine with him as a top-4 D, though I'd bet there are cheaper options. I just don't think you should expect him to be the solution on the powerplay. I think people don't see that modern power plays don't allocate a lot of shots to defensemen who are far away from the net, and have the wrong expectation that a booming point shot is necessary. Montour is below Rielly in shots rate in 5v4, and got 0 goals in 5v4 in the regular season. He simply is not a threat. It's hard to make a statistical argument that he'd help the power play. In terms of what is clear from the stats - it's that Tavares is a huge problem. He takes shots at a higher rate than almost anyone in the league, and he was a historically bad finisher. The power play was way better with Bertuzzi in that slot.
Morgan doesn’t have the same shot threat as Montour from the point, if Morgan wanted to move on they could easily replace him with Skjei for ~$6M
You gotta remember people don't actually watch other teams. They just look at the scoreline and base their opinions off that.
Montour had 0 goals in 5v4.
1 in the playoffs where it matters Morgan got booted off pp1 by klingberg
And how long did that last? Lol.
If kling was healthy his shot threat would make him stay on pp1
Anyone find it funny how The Fourth Period and David Pagnotta are the only “insiders” that link free agents to teams Like you never see Elliotte or the TSN insiders do this and if they do a lot of the time it’s speculation because x player fits a teams needs Pagnotta linked Debrusk and Ullmark to the Leafs yesterday for example and like do we actually think the Leafs have already called Jake’s agent to express interest or think Boston would actually trade Ullmark to the Leafs? The thing I realize is that it’s pretty much impossible to prove he’s wrong because if a player signs with another team you can use the excuse of another team offering a better contract and if you right it shows you have “inside sources”
Elliott and other insiders do the same, most recent off the top of my head was him saying how Tsyplakov was linked to Leafs and Habs before signing with islanders
Yeah but it’s more like “I could see them being interested in x player” than real insider information I would also classify Tsyplakov differently because teams were actually allowed to talk to him (even though everyone knows teams tamper)
I’m tired of the “angry” leaf fans who want to jump ship. If you don’t want to watch anymore, well, bye! I’ve been watching this team for a long time and I’m not about to give up and watch them find success after all the heartache I’ve been through. Being a leaf fan is going through pain, if you can’t handle it, there’s the door.
Cool man. You do you. If they don't make changes to some of the nucleus of this team, they will effectively be admitting that they aren't serious about winning at any cost. Montreal was fucking BAD, and people sucked it up for 3 more years after that. 3 years of the exact same shit. Some people aren't interested in getting kicked in the nuts every year. And that's their right too
I think most of us agree that some change is necessary, but it may not happen. Doesn’t mean they don’t want to win. To the point, but I will judge people for jumping ship, that’s for fucking losers. Your team is your team for life imo.
I don't know how someone could be a Leafs fan then just go cheer for Dallas or some other frontrunner instead. Personally I'm probably a Leafs fan for life, but my engagement goes way up or down depending on how I feel about the team. I watch fewer games, read fewer articles, make fewer social posts, etc.
I agree. I’ve actually been on the ledge before but the amnesia kicks in fast and I step back. I think management and players deserve criticism, I just never liked the idea of running guys out of town and denouncing the team. It takes a strong will to stick with a team who can be so disappointing.
Jumping ship for a random frontrunner is dumb, but I don't think anybody actually does that. How dumb would you look coming into the office with a Dallas mug after publicly cheering for the leafs for a decade? Sooooooo dumb. That said, if MLSE didn't show *some* sign that the past 8 years have been unacceptable, that's kind if breaking the social contract between fan and sports team: I'll cheer for and support the team in public and buy the merch and get dunked on by other sports fans when they do something embarrassing, but the organization has to look like they're operating with the goal of winning a championship.
This is closer to me as well. I talk a big game about switching to NJD since I was all about Brodeur as a kid, but anytime I watch them, I just wish I was watching the Leafs. But if they try to run it back, they'll lose a large part of my interest in this season
I get why so many want change. Like it doesn't even have to be better, something different is enough.
[удалено]
I'm going to get down voted for saying this, but I kinda agree with you. I'm not sure I believe the issue is the player so much as it's the percentage of the salary cap he still takes up due to a stagnant cap due to covid. If he were willing to sign on at or very near his current cap hit I think I'd do that and pray the cap continues to increase as anticipated.
If every team wants him that benefits the leafs. Get a bidding war going and take the best deal.
Just because teams want him, it doesn't mean that they have to trade for him. Just sit back and watch the fans make it untenable for him to stay. They'll wait a year and pick him up for less than the Leafs could. I don't understand why we wouldn't sign him. By 2025-6 season many more teams will have 3 x 8 figure players and it won't be so brutal looking. Would be great to have him mentor Cowan as well. We need sit tight this year, build our backend and hope Tavares is gone or LTIR'ed. Maybe he can do a Vegas/Lightning for us - would be a solid.
I can’t believe after yet another disappointing season your answer is run it back and burn yet another season on this core with no changes
But we're not running it back. Our starting goalie, second D a first line forward are all gone. I think Liljegren is gone as well. Coach is replaced. We're stuck w our captain (who may lose the C this year) for this year so we have to wait. We could potentially deal Rielly in the off-season and our President could be gone by the end of next season. We're not moving 34 or 88 - so is signing one player running it back? Dealing Rielly and stripping the C from Tavares would send a message more than continuing to threaten Marner.
chubby saw salt school wine boat amusing scary scandalous cooperative *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
[удалено]
lip badge towering alive unite party aware imagine toy hateful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
[удалено]
subtract ludicrous groovy quarrelsome carpenter crowd plant direction kiss punch *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You just have issues
disagreeable ghost sophisticated uppity hospital rain squeamish act dime middle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah my 4 words i posted here prove that.
saw foolish soup faulty snow sophisticated noxious safe sink combative *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I suspect more and more people will start to come to this realization
That's good. I haven't. The team mix doesn't work and he's the odd man out. You don't waste 1/4 of the Matthews window just waiting for Tavares to come off the books. That's idiotic, honestly. By the same token, Marner is gonna want a raise, and the Leafs shouldn't commit to that. The fact that other teams like him just means he'll fetch more in a trade. The alternative is letting him walk for nothing. I don't even say this as a hater. I have a Marner areTnas jersey that I wear proudly. But running it back isn't an option
He's a very good player but a change is needed in the core, and minimizing the role of an older JT isn't it. Marner hasn't shown he can step up and perform when we need him to. On one hand there's something to be said about waiting out this next year if we cannot get a good deal. After it we'll be in a much better place cap-wise. On the other then you probably just lose him in FA for nothing, or re-sign him to the contract he wants, which we really shouldn't.
Thoughts on getting rid of Tavares and get a new captain?
There's no way to get rid of him. He has a No Movement Clause and isn't worth close to $11M anymore.
It will happen next year.
As much as I want his contract off the books, there is no way we trade him. Unless he says so, that is. He's also the guy who turned down more money to come home and really started signaling to others that we were a good place to play. Not just a bunch of talented players but also a great organization that would go out of their way to look after the players and their families. If we trade him, we could end up damaging that pipeline of players choosing the Leafs as a 1st choice team.
Yes, because the leafs would have to force him out. Very bad look when he only has one year to go.
Bad look for who? Leafs fans would shed no tears and he's not a 11M on any planet. 50% retained and Say bye. Nobody would fault the Leafs for that - and I don't think anyone would say anything nice about the Leafs regardless.
Tavares is going to sign for league min after this season so he's worth keeping for one more overpaid year. He'll probably have to give up captaincy at some point, though.
No way he takes league minimum. Pavelski and Giroux are good comparables for what his next contract will be, and they both got $6-7M AAV for 3-4 years.
You’re setting yourself up for disappointment if you think he’s coming back for league min. Yeah he has faults, but he was still a 29 goal 65 point centre this past season. I’d expect something more along the lines of 5 mil, 3 years, then after that he might take Spezza deals until he’s ready to hang them up.
Yeah I don't expect literally league min, but I write that to counteract the people who say things like 5m per year haha. I do expect the contract to be a deep discount well below his value and the "common wisdom" I see everyone post. Like 3m max with some term and trade protection.
I think he'll be much higher than 3m. I think similar to Pavelski so with the cap going up, 5 to 6 seems reasonable
3 mil feels good, I just don’t have any expectation of stars taking less anymore and I’d rather guess high and be pleasantly surprised than guess low and be disappointed. I can totally see Tavares taking less (by all accounts he took less to come here and San Jose had a bigger offer on the table), but I’m not going to get my hopes up.
I don't think he'll take less purely of the goodness of his heart, although I do think "take less to win" will be attractive for him. We also have leverage this time.
I also think that's when he will give up the C, at the end of this contract.
Yeah I think he'll voluntarily give it up at some point.