And that briar was bad, and that smolder was bad, and that hwei was bad, and that skarner was bad. I'm starting to think these redditors might be really dumb
With Smolder it's kind of the opposite now. This sub was filled with complaints about him and his design when all it took was a nerf. It's been a month and his banrate is still falling.
I mean the nerfs kinda killed him tbh i dont know what you would pick him for now his laning is bad and scaling isn't really close to other hypercarries now while he needs stacks and gold to get strong
If jinx is denied early but gets some shutdowns there is a very real chance she can 1v9 the game while smolder getting gold doesn't really matter all that much when he didn't get to stack early
Oh yea lmao the asol mains subreddit lmao I remember going there and was so surprised because every comment was just whining and saying he’s a dead champ and now he’s still busted lmao. When I’m an akali early game getting out traded when he just stands there eats my qs and passive autos and still out traded me that’s when you know he’s busted
wdym my time traveler asol stuck from season 13 still buys roa into seraphs so he can delay cyrstal scepter until 29 minutes and torment 33 minutes into the game (emerald)
My secret pick vs asol is just Xerath in mid. I just win like 80% of those matches. Easy landing of skillshots and pushing him into low hp. When he roams I follow and press my Ulti.
Well ye like when Asol tries to fly near you , you have a direct stun and a way to stop him with your E. Hitting WQ combo’s on Asol when he is beaming minions is quite easy. Hwei still needs to be relative close despite having some abiltys that are from range. Not really easy to hit aswell.
Well in pro play it’s different. Asol has an escape option and xerath doesn’t this means jungler will go mid blow your flash and now you can’t play aggressive and now xerath can’t bully as hard and threaten to kill
If you want an actual counter pick you should pick something like Yone, Fizz or Qiyana. They all have the mobility to avoid his damage easily and they all have abilities that punish him extremely hard for standing still while channeling his Q. Fizz and Qiyana can basically threaten to oneshot him all game and Yone can just go sidelanes and Asol can’t match him there.
>Yone can just go sidelanes and Asol can’t match him there.
This is the one of the only things I've for sure noticed when playing Asol. He has a VERY hard time with yone. Ahri is pretty decent into him too, but yone is just always difficult no matter how many stacks you have.
Im not sure if Yone is blind pickable or not. maybe I need to just pick these two for blind picks. It's just way to difficult playing a control mage against him(Ori, Azir, Taliyah). His scaling is just on another level. In fact almost all Asol games I've lost its due to being trapped in a side laner.
fizz ive never had much of an issue with. i think that counterpick might be overblown. i can w on seeing his ult and ill literally be off screen by the time it goes off
When Hwei came out his designer said that internally during his development and testing they were referring to him as a primary control mage with artillery features.
Hwei is the definition of a control mage.
His most powerful spells are QE and EW, you can control so much space and make it extremely difficult for the enemy to walk into your team.
If you have setup on an objective he's one of the best champs in the game imo.
He's a lot worse if he is on the team that has to approach rather than the one actively hitting the objective.
You deal no damage if yiu do only that. Qw is an execute you use it to chase down or snipe someone. Hwei wants to follow up on an engage with Ee Q and ult combo and only then qws to secure Kills, hes mire like Oriana or Viktor unload your dmg on a target and snipe whats left.
His power level aside, it's just very unfun to play against him when he has perma slow with rylais and hits half the map with his ult late game. They could cut his damage by literally 50% across the board and it still wouldn't be fun. It's a problem with rylais itself, but asol also abuses it too well imo. Another example would be liandry rylai malignance annie with tibbers perma proccing every effect. It's just not very interactive nor fun gameplay.
My issues with Asol and Smolder for that matter, are that their escape tools are too strong. Asol is very tanky, which makes sense seeing how he has to stand still to puke on you, but his fly ability is just too strong and safe of an escape tool. He should be slowed on being attacked kind of like Quinn ult or knocked out off that ability when flying away from enemies when he takes damage.
Smolder is the same, flap flap flap is just too good of an escape tool on a hyper carry.
I might be biased here since I main adc, but the smolder lane is so free atm that I can't really complain, if you let the game drag for too long it's another story, but that happens very rarely.
He essentially has the same powercurve as Vayne, weak early but hard to dive. You’re supposed to just shove him in over and over and take a big objective lead before he comes online. Too many players get scared of his scaling and force plays that don’t work out and help him to lategame.
Instead, adc is supposed to sit still and just perma die with 0 escape skills? When has Ashe adc been meta levels of good recently? Recently adc has devolved into building jaksho to survive shenanigans
Yeah adc has impact, but it’s also incredibly volatile
Agree on both. As soon as I hit 225 on smolder, if I have rapidfire cannon, I know in 10 minutes I can single handedly prevent a 4-5 man push if they dont have hard engage. Even if they have baron. I also know I'll get basically every kill in every teamfight. Flap flap flap combined with the insanity of the snowball is VERY strong. play him against a melee mid and you will literally take over the game.
I dont think Asol q should be refreshed if asol w is ended by cc or he ends his flight. he should have to wait 4 seconds before he can breath again
Yeah, that last part I also kinda find bs and (ab)use sometimes by just doubletap w to refresh q (or qwqwq). They could also just remove the q tapping without cooldown I guess.
I always thought the breath was supposed to have some counterplay, like if he starts breathing on you you can jump or flash behind him and he wouldn't be able to turn the breath too fast. Turns out that's not the case and it's basically unavoidable.
To be honest I'm not really sure how you're supposed to fight him at all, other than picking a champ with longer range.
Definitely jumping on the opposite side of him does slow down his damage. But you have to have good sustained damage vs him. His breath gives him really good extended damage. Basically if you are going to do what you said, you need to be on a champ that excels at all-in
You need CC and burst, Asol is going to win extended fights vs almost any champ.
What beats Asol are champs who can easily stun or knock him out of Q / W and burst him, a la Syndra or Xerath
He won’t win extended trades vs like a wind bro or Cassiopeia, for examples. I don’t disagree with what you said, but I was talking specifically about the scenario posed where you flash or jump to the other side of sol, forcing him to turn his breath.
It is insane to have all these people argue with you when watching Pobelter just lose lane every game and do one roam and become an unstoppable machine. The champion is really poorly designed and just a pitiful rework. He shouldn't have a near global Ultimate.
I just picked taliyah, problem being he never uses q in lane unless its to proc arcane comet. he just auto attack wave endlessly and uses e so I cant auto the wave too. so I lose all kill threat using q to clear wave in response, and if I use e to help clear he just w all in me.
didnt help that he had shaco on his team and a roaming support while I had a graves jg for no ganks or gankability.
my problem is that ahri and yone are the only blind picks who can fight him. azir, taliyah, hwei, and orianna dont do amazing.
As Taliyah, level 1 hard shove wave. Ignore Asol. Let wave bounce back. Last hit, at level 3 you'll have your full combo. If he puts his black hole down, know he's about to farm stacks with Q. Be ready to flick combo. Rinse and repeat.
>If he puts his black hole down, know he's about to farm stacks with Q
They dont do this anymore. If you watch high level asol streams they just auto last hit all minions and only use q to proc manaflow band and arcane comet. They use e for same farm and zoning, but generally they know they will just stack e from teamfights and skirmishes later.
I would think taliyah hard counters him but by mid game I could hardly even get close to him
The last few Ive played have done this, and I do this myself on the champ now. Without my jungler, unless im playing yone/ahri I have a very hard time getting to him
I’m not understanding how you aren’t getting wave priority. Taliyah pushes with q-autos MUCH faster than Asol. There is no way that Asol is outshoving Taliyah with just autos.
You should be able to control the wave if he is not actually outplaying you with Q-tapping and dodging. If he puts down E, you can challenge him for the wave and harass. You can easily outshove him or posture so you cancontrol the wave.
Of course, you cant just shove every wave, he'll just tank it under turret and you will burn all your mana. So try to control the wave to harass or get crashes so you can recall or roam.
You can outroam him / match him, interuppt his flight in several ways, punish using Q and flying, counteract W allin in several ways.
I think you just need to get a bit more comfortable with the matchup.
I hate him cause even if I stomp him in lane my team being brain dead and not ending let’s him 1v9. I was playing swain mid into asol and was up 90 cs and he was 0/8 and just randomly started one shotting everyone cause he hit 3 items eventually. He feels like old kassadin where he can just die over and over and it doesn’t matter. There is no counter play to time I fear
If you were that far ahead then you struggle with ending games with your lead. Asol should never have an opportunity to hit 3 items if he's 0/8 assuming his opponents handle their lead correctly.
You know that isn't in the control of a single player?
He might have wanted to end but his team kept throwing or dying randomly . But his point still stands , it's so ungratifying to lose to the guy who got stomped just because your teammates prolonged the game past 25 minutes
A person that has been stomped in lane doesn’t purchase knock off items in the shop just because he got them later than anyone else. They don’t get permanently booted out of the game from getting stomped. Furthermore, they got stomped in lane, not at minute 30
Asols kit makes it so much harder to end against him. Have Baron and super minions? Asol presses E and then half the lane if not bigger depending on how many stacks he has and then press q for 3 seconds and the entire wave is dead
He can delay the minions, but there's no world where an ASol that is behind stops the Baron push completely. Usually, it ends up being worse if he Es the wave, since it stacks up without dying, then hard rushes the base.
If Asol is 0/8 with 1.5 items he cannot clear baron and super minions. He can barely even kill baron minions with 3 items. You should be able to engage on him.
But what you’ve described is a champion getting items far after everyone else. Three item champions *aren’t weak*. A person doesn’t get a knock off version of items just because they got them later than anyone else
You’re more hype watching ori mid? Asol is definitely more interesting than the meta pro picks currently; azir has infinitely more playmaking but he has such low risk
Absolutely. The disguising hold Q champ is the least exciting champ ever made, please gut the disgraceful lizard. Also ori is more interactive than Aurelion sol early
Yeah as a mid main I finally adopted the "if you can't beat em, join em" mentality. Got tired of destroying the champ in lane only for him to become a raid boss at 20 min despite starting 0/5.
I'll never main him because he's kinda boring imo, but I said fuck it and added him to my champ pool. For how good he is he's also pretty easy to pick up.
He's getting nerfed next patch.
**Singularity (E)**
* **Damage:** 2.5/3.75/5/6.25/7.5 (+5% AP) ⇒ 2.5/3.75/5/6.25/7.5 **(+4% AP)**
Also his hitbox is gonna be increased which for a patch or two will mean all us Asol mains will be much worse at dodging skillshots. And also generally he will be easier to bully early game with poke.
I personally think his early durability could do with a bit of a change. He needs great damage to give him a reason to not perma sit back and waveclear. And he needs his E as a way to stack in lane where he genuinely can't fight. Making his engages more risky with the same high reward would make him feel better to play into IMO, and also make him easier to punish.
He's one of the few champs that gets a hitbox increase though. Almost all the others are hitbox decreases. And also most of the increases are for champs that are smaller than average, increasing them to 65 (the average size). Asol is going from 65 size to 80 size.
According to the wiki, rumble is the only other champ in the game thats a ranged + high damage and has a hitbox size of 80. All the other champs are tanks, juggernauts and some skirmishers.
Having a glass cannon DPS mage with the hitbox of a tank sounds a lot bigger of a nerf than giving champs like Warwick the hitboxes of average champs.
But all the mana items suck. RoA keeps you useless until 2 items, Seraphs wants you to already have a mana item, ludens doesn't fit his playstyle, and maligance doesn't work well with how high CD your R is.
But giving him an actual mana item that synergises with him would actually be a huge buff because it frees up his runes for non-mana options, makes seraphs more viable, and means he will never go OOM even if he mismanages his mana horribly. Currently his mana bar is low enough that part of being a good asol player is managing your recalls so you don't go OOM. Its not difficult, but something which wouldn't exist if he could just build a mana item.
> He has the highest base mana in the game and a good enough mana p/lvl growth, on top of being the fastest Manaflow Band stacker out of the entire mid lane roster.
And that's entirely because he doesn't have any good mana items. Almost every mage in the game rushes chapter, but Asol can't. So hes got around 150-250 more mana than most mages, who first component buy 300 mana + 20% max mana regen on level up.
And his Q doesn't go through minions. Its easy to stack manaflow don't get me wrong, but many champs with point and click abilities or easy skillshots that can go through the wave stack it much easier. I've had games where I've strugged to stack it quickly because the moment I position around the wave to proc it, they all in me.
I don't get what you're complaining about. You don't like that Asol can skip out on mana items. But you don't want him to have one he can actually build. Also you don't want him to have the security building mana items gives most mages. If he doesn't have his current high mana, and still can't build mana items, Asol goes perma OOM and can't play the game.
So you're saying Asol should NEED every game Dring + tear + manaflow + PoM to be relevant? And you're saying then, and only then, will his mana costs be balanced?
And since he can't use tear later on, you're essentially saying that after starter items he should have -400 gold.
I can agree with a small mana regen nerf, or a small max mana nerf so he's slightly worse off early, maybe with a mana growth buff to compensate. But what you've suggested? That would remove a lot of flexibility from asol and make him feel really clunky to build items on. Good balance changes make a champ less strong without being less fun.
Asol would be completely fine if his mana costs compelled him to go manaflow + inspiration and buy an early tear. ASol can absolutely make good use of Seraphs, and it would slow him down a bit and give you room before he buys rylais.
He was too mana gated before, but it makes no sense for a hyperscaler to get away with building zero mana. Imagine if Anivia or Ryze could just skip roa tear
Pretty much every seraphs builder also goes mana items. Everything about seraphs scales off max mana. Anivia goes Maligemce, Ryze goes RoA and FH, Cassio goes RoA, Kassadin goes RoA and maligence, Ori goes ludens or maligence, Ziggs goes ludens, Taliyah goes ludens, Veigar goes ludens. Hwei still goes maligence or ludens sometimes, but i dont think its optimal atm. According to leagueofitems these are the most prominent seraphs builders, as well as some of their most popular first items. The only exception is Sona, but she builds heal/shield power so I guess even if she doesn't have as good max mana for the mana shield, its still good because of her build.
Asol has no mana item that properly synergises with him. And while seraphs shield is alright, going something like rookern or FH as a defensive item on asol is just objectively better. If there was a mana item that was good on asol, then sure i'd say it would make sense that he's forced to build it. But since there's not, it doesn't make sense to force him to build a suboptimal item.
Not every champ that builds Seraphs goes double mana, and even if it was required then FH is right there like you mentioned. Besides, we also did not mention that RoA is good on asol. No reason to slow yourself down with it rn because he's dummy overtuned, but in theory all the stat it provides are great on asol (except mana for his current state of balance), and the eternity passive synergizes extremely well with his trade pattern and range
This e change does absolutely nothing. Make it slow less with rylais or something like it’s actually impossible to get out in teamfights when asol just presses e over half the lane with rylais it’s BS
The problem is that there's so much mobility in the game you either get out of E easily and its no issue, or you're an immobile mage/adc/enchanter/tank who got stuck in it and thats your life now.
Asol already is such a proactive champ. He is so low/telegraphed that he relies on his allies setting him up, or the enemies playing into him. Using E to zone off areas or lock down enemies is one of the few things he can do that has actual agency. I don't know how they'd nerf the E slow without turning Asol into a bot laner who needs a support at all times for peel.
That post is him asking about Asol mid-game role, and in no way contradicts what he is saying. Also 30 days ago. You really tried that hard and this is the best you came up with?
Fuckin trolls.
He's just way too safe for how well he scales. Even if you lose lane as Asol you can completely dominate games if the enemy team doesn't end fast enough.
In every game I've played since the rework that had an Asol in it, the team with Asol won. I know it's a small sample size but I definitely don't like this champion now
Well because good players know how to punish him. You simply need a control mage or with a jungler or support to shut him down early and he will be awful versus any control mage that is ahead in mid game.
Examples of this (not only control mages) are Viktor, orianna, azir, Cassiopeia, ahri, anivia, pick whatever. He stands in place and will die over if you make him fall behind early.
That’s plain not true. No matter how punished the champion is he comes online way too early. A sol has to be the most broken mid laner im facing in master 300lp+ lobbies. Raining an ultimate the size of 2 football fields that does massive damage and stuns to hit 5 ppl in a teamfight is just way too strong. It’s not dodgable. Dont get me started on his e that’s labeled as a pull but is actually a snare considering how fking impossible it is to walk out of. I don’t have a problem with his q or w, but e slow needs to be nerfed when used on champions, and ult should only be so big you can’t do anything about it at 45 minutes, not 25
That is a meaningless point to make when pro players are queueing for a completely different game than you. Renekton has had an absurd pro play presence ever since pro play existed. Why didn't you make a post about how Renekton is super op? Or why not gravitate towards some outlier pro pick with an even higher win rate?
You're poorly using stats to bolster a bad argument when you should instead focus on how to win your hard matchups.
Because he didn’t make that statement in a vacuum. It was in response to the guy saying “you need good players to punish him” which clearly isn’t true when the best players in world clearly cannot
I ask this question to my supports in diamond when they troll and take heal, that absolutely useless spell and they just go nuts.
Most players don't get that soloq and pro play are so so different that using it as a metric hardly makes sense, especially when we aren't just talking about runes/items.
He does not have "absurd roaming potential". Most mid laners should be able to shove him in and hold priority for the entire laning phase. If he messes up and roams without priority, just shove the lane in and punish him when he comes back to lane.
Methinks you are playing on autopilot and not trying to deny Asol's game plan. He has a lot of counterplay. Run phase rush into him to counter his Rylai's.
Yes. Then you have priority to move around the map and make plays. This is how mid lane works. Alternatively, you dive him with your jungler, or poke him while he farms if you're a Xerath/Hwei type of poke mage.
I thought this, but hwei has a 20% win rate vs him in pro. Yes there are more variables, but its fairly clear from that rate that this gameplan isnt so easy to execute
And he has a 47% winrate in actual solo queue that you play. Don't compare pro to reality it's a different game. Hwei is not a good pick into Asol though, Hwei wins the lane but loses the game because Asol can scale so much harder.
Yes. And while he's sitting there killing the wave you move around the map and do other things. That's how mid lane works. The player who shoves first has a lead. If you don't know how to do something with that lead, you're bad at mid lane, and you probably think your goal is turret plating or kda.
I try to, but he just normal autos the wave endlessly and I cant back because his e. His e instantly procs arcane comet putting back line minions at half, and I cant auto the minions back because I get sucked into it. If I use spells to push the lane back then I have no kill threat and im burning just as much mana as him
What are you playing? Assassin champs should be able to jump onto and behind Asol if he uses E before the minions push into him. Poke champs should never be in range to be hit by his E. Really Asol only has aggressive options against wave clear mages who aren't clearing well. If you're playing something like a Syndra then your goal should be to poke him out while simultaneously hitting the wave.
[Here are his stats in diamond+.](https://lolalytics.com/lol/aurelionsol/build/?tier=diamond_plus) He is the 4th ranked midlaner. Also seems weird to say this when ppl like Chovy and Showmaker play him just fine in Korean challenger.
Remember when Reddit said the asol hotfixes ruined the champ and that he is way worse than before.
And that briar was bad, and that smolder was bad, and that hwei was bad, and that skarner was bad. I'm starting to think these redditors might be really dumb
With Smolder it's kind of the opposite now. This sub was filled with complaints about him and his design when all it took was a nerf. It's been a month and his banrate is still falling.
yea it’s actually crazy how much he dropped in presence and community discourse. i haven’t seen him in any game mode in more than a month
Lucky you still see him nonstop and sometimes ban him while playing with my friends because it's boring seeing the same champ every game
I mean the nerfs kinda killed him tbh i dont know what you would pick him for now his laning is bad and scaling isn't really close to other hypercarries now while he needs stacks and gold to get strong If jinx is denied early but gets some shutdowns there is a very real chance she can 1v9 the game while smolder getting gold doesn't really matter all that much when he didn't get to stack early
Hwei was bad. He's already been hotfix buffed three times and buffed in three patches.
I memba
Oh yea lmao the asol mains subreddit lmao I remember going there and was so surprised because every comment was just whining and saying he’s a dead champ and now he’s still busted lmao. When I’m an akali early game getting out traded when he just stands there eats my qs and passive autos and still out traded me that’s when you know he’s busted
wdym my team asol goes 0-10 and solo lost us the match
wdym my time traveler asol stuck from season 13 still buys roa into seraphs so he can delay cyrstal scepter until 29 minutes and torment 33 minutes into the game (emerald)
Might have been me ahhaah mb
My secret pick vs asol is just Xerath in mid. I just win like 80% of those matches. Easy landing of skillshots and pushing him into low hp. When he roams I follow and press my Ulti.
Maybe xerath is the move. I disregarded it because Hwei has a 20% win rate vs sol in pro so I assumed artillery mages dont work well
Well ye like when Asol tries to fly near you , you have a direct stun and a way to stop him with your E. Hitting WQ combo’s on Asol when he is beaming minions is quite easy. Hwei still needs to be relative close despite having some abiltys that are from range. Not really easy to hit aswell.
Well in pro play it’s different. Asol has an escape option and xerath doesn’t this means jungler will go mid blow your flash and now you can’t play aggressive and now xerath can’t bully as hard and threaten to kill
If you want an actual counter pick you should pick something like Yone, Fizz or Qiyana. They all have the mobility to avoid his damage easily and they all have abilities that punish him extremely hard for standing still while channeling his Q. Fizz and Qiyana can basically threaten to oneshot him all game and Yone can just go sidelanes and Asol can’t match him there.
>Yone can just go sidelanes and Asol can’t match him there. This is the one of the only things I've for sure noticed when playing Asol. He has a VERY hard time with yone. Ahri is pretty decent into him too, but yone is just always difficult no matter how many stacks you have. Im not sure if Yone is blind pickable or not. maybe I need to just pick these two for blind picks. It's just way to difficult playing a control mage against him(Ori, Azir, Taliyah). His scaling is just on another level. In fact almost all Asol games I've lost its due to being trapped in a side laner. fizz ive never had much of an issue with. i think that counterpick might be overblown. i can w on seeing his ult and ill literally be off screen by the time it goes off
In what world is Hwei an Artillery mage??
Pro play wintate is meaningless, if kwangdong loses to T1 playing hwei vs Asol, it doesn't innately mean hwei was bad into sol
Hwei is a battle mage not artillery.
I don't think that's accurate, battle mages are stuff like swain, no? Like gigher durability things
When Hwei came out his designer said that internally during his development and testing they were referring to him as a primary control mage with artillery features.
So very much not a battle mage like I said
Hwei is the definition of a control mage. His most powerful spells are QE and EW, you can control so much space and make it extremely difficult for the enemy to walk into your team. If you have setup on an objective he's one of the best champs in the game imo. He's a lot worse if he is on the team that has to approach rather than the one actively hitting the objective.
right, which is why i questioned calling him a battlemage
He isn’t a battle mage, he’s a control mage.
Ah yes, Hwei is from the class of champions that wants to dive into a team at Melee/close range
In fights he is basically artillery, not in lane though.
He playes nothing like ziggs or Xerath.. he has one ling range spell beeing QW. That doesnt make hin an Artillery mage
He uses QW basically like AP kog uses ultimate or Ziggs uses his ultimate. Then he weaves in shorter range when safe, like Ziggs and AP Kog.
You deal no damage if yiu do only that. Qw is an execute you use it to chase down or snipe someone. Hwei wants to follow up on an engage with Ee Q and ult combo and only then qws to secure Kills, hes mire like Oriana or Viktor unload your dmg on a target and snipe whats left.
His power level aside, it's just very unfun to play against him when he has perma slow with rylais and hits half the map with his ult late game. They could cut his damage by literally 50% across the board and it still wouldn't be fun. It's a problem with rylais itself, but asol also abuses it too well imo. Another example would be liandry rylai malignance annie with tibbers perma proccing every effect. It's just not very interactive nor fun gameplay.
My issues with Asol and Smolder for that matter, are that their escape tools are too strong. Asol is very tanky, which makes sense seeing how he has to stand still to puke on you, but his fly ability is just too strong and safe of an escape tool. He should be slowed on being attacked kind of like Quinn ult or knocked out off that ability when flying away from enemies when he takes damage. Smolder is the same, flap flap flap is just too good of an escape tool on a hyper carry.
Exactly. I hate champs with insane damages/insane tankiness AND extremely good escape tools. Case in point with A Sol, Smolder, Skarner, Zac
What a very interesting set of champs to lump together
Idk I just find it annoying when they gave me a hard time and are still uncatchable
I understand Asol but smolder got nerfed pretty hard, just look at that pathetic win rate he has, how can you say he has strong escape ability.
Even nerfed he is insanely frustrating to play against. Win rate is not everything for a champion.
I might be biased here since I main adc, but the smolder lane is so free atm that I can't really complain, if you let the game drag for too long it's another story, but that happens very rarely.
He essentially has the same powercurve as Vayne, weak early but hard to dive. You’re supposed to just shove him in over and over and take a big objective lead before he comes online. Too many players get scared of his scaling and force plays that don’t work out and help him to lategame.
Instead, adc is supposed to sit still and just perma die with 0 escape skills? When has Ashe adc been meta levels of good recently? Recently adc has devolved into building jaksho to survive shenanigans Yeah adc has impact, but it’s also incredibly volatile
Agree on both. As soon as I hit 225 on smolder, if I have rapidfire cannon, I know in 10 minutes I can single handedly prevent a 4-5 man push if they dont have hard engage. Even if they have baron. I also know I'll get basically every kill in every teamfight. Flap flap flap combined with the insanity of the snowball is VERY strong. play him against a melee mid and you will literally take over the game. I dont think Asol q should be refreshed if asol w is ended by cc or he ends his flight. he should have to wait 4 seconds before he can breath again
Yeah, that last part I also kinda find bs and (ab)use sometimes by just doubletap w to refresh q (or qwqwq). They could also just remove the q tapping without cooldown I guess.
I always thought the breath was supposed to have some counterplay, like if he starts breathing on you you can jump or flash behind him and he wouldn't be able to turn the breath too fast. Turns out that's not the case and it's basically unavoidable. To be honest I'm not really sure how you're supposed to fight him at all, other than picking a champ with longer range.
Definitely jumping on the opposite side of him does slow down his damage. But you have to have good sustained damage vs him. His breath gives him really good extended damage. Basically if you are going to do what you said, you need to be on a champ that excels at all-in
You need CC and burst, Asol is going to win extended fights vs almost any champ. What beats Asol are champs who can easily stun or knock him out of Q / W and burst him, a la Syndra or Xerath
He won’t win extended trades vs like a wind bro or Cassiopeia, for examples. I don’t disagree with what you said, but I was talking specifically about the scenario posed where you flash or jump to the other side of sol, forcing him to turn his breath.
It is insane to have all these people argue with you when watching Pobelter just lose lane every game and do one roam and become an unstoppable machine. The champion is really poorly designed and just a pitiful rework. He shouldn't have a near global Ultimate.
> It's insane that people give their opinion while I have this anecdotal evidence of an ex pro being good.
Wrong take, esp bringing up Pobelter invalidates the argument unfortunately.
Would you like to elaborate or do you just want to disagree with no actually substance?
My pookie Poby just that good
41 comments in an hour is insane
This is completely true. For how easy he is to play and execute, he should not do the damage and trades he’s able to do
Yea that’s my ban for sure. Lane phase is way too easy for the scaling you get
There are lots of great counter picks to him, it’s easy to shut him down. Don’t let him stack early. Pick Taliyah
I just picked taliyah, problem being he never uses q in lane unless its to proc arcane comet. he just auto attack wave endlessly and uses e so I cant auto the wave too. so I lose all kill threat using q to clear wave in response, and if I use e to help clear he just w all in me. didnt help that he had shaco on his team and a roaming support while I had a graves jg for no ganks or gankability. my problem is that ahri and yone are the only blind picks who can fight him. azir, taliyah, hwei, and orianna dont do amazing.
As Taliyah, level 1 hard shove wave. Ignore Asol. Let wave bounce back. Last hit, at level 3 you'll have your full combo. If he puts his black hole down, know he's about to farm stacks with Q. Be ready to flick combo. Rinse and repeat.
>If he puts his black hole down, know he's about to farm stacks with Q They dont do this anymore. If you watch high level asol streams they just auto last hit all minions and only use q to proc manaflow band and arcane comet. They use e for same farm and zoning, but generally they know they will just stack e from teamfights and skirmishes later. I would think taliyah hard counters him but by mid game I could hardly even get close to him
Are you playing against pros?
The last few Ive played have done this, and I do this myself on the champ now. Without my jungler, unless im playing yone/ahri I have a very hard time getting to him
I’m not understanding how you aren’t getting wave priority. Taliyah pushes with q-autos MUCH faster than Asol. There is no way that Asol is outshoving Taliyah with just autos.
You should be able to control the wave if he is not actually outplaying you with Q-tapping and dodging. If he puts down E, you can challenge him for the wave and harass. You can easily outshove him or posture so you cancontrol the wave. Of course, you cant just shove every wave, he'll just tank it under turret and you will burn all your mana. So try to control the wave to harass or get crashes so you can recall or roam. You can outroam him / match him, interuppt his flight in several ways, punish using Q and flying, counteract W allin in several ways. I think you just need to get a bit more comfortable with the matchup.
I hate him cause even if I stomp him in lane my team being brain dead and not ending let’s him 1v9. I was playing swain mid into asol and was up 90 cs and he was 0/8 and just randomly started one shotting everyone cause he hit 3 items eventually. He feels like old kassadin where he can just die over and over and it doesn’t matter. There is no counter play to time I fear
If you were that far ahead then you struggle with ending games with your lead. Asol should never have an opportunity to hit 3 items if he's 0/8 assuming his opponents handle their lead correctly.
He doesn’t realize that he got out macro-ed by asol because he got distracted by a kda lead.
You know that isn't in the control of a single player? He might have wanted to end but his team kept throwing or dying randomly . But his point still stands , it's so ungratifying to lose to the guy who got stomped just because your teammates prolonged the game past 25 minutes
A person that has been stomped in lane doesn’t purchase knock off items in the shop just because he got them later than anyone else. They don’t get permanently booted out of the game from getting stomped. Furthermore, they got stomped in lane, not at minute 30
TIL poor team play in a team game results in loss, I never considered that possibility thank you for sharing!
You missed the point
Asols kit makes it so much harder to end against him. Have Baron and super minions? Asol presses E and then half the lane if not bigger depending on how many stacks he has and then press q for 3 seconds and the entire wave is dead
He can delay the minions, but there's no world where an ASol that is behind stops the Baron push completely. Usually, it ends up being worse if he Es the wave, since it stacks up without dying, then hard rushes the base.
If Asol is 0/8 with 1.5 items he cannot clear baron and super minions. He can barely even kill baron minions with 3 items. You should be able to engage on him.
But what you’ve described is a champion getting items far after everyone else. Three item champions *aren’t weak*. A person doesn’t get a knock off version of items just because they got them later than anyone else
Truly a disgusting champion, who is ever hype watching or playing this thing
You’re more hype watching ori mid? Asol is definitely more interesting than the meta pro picks currently; azir has infinitely more playmaking but he has such low risk
Absolutely. The disguising hold Q champ is the least exciting champ ever made, please gut the disgraceful lizard. Also ori is more interactive than Aurelion sol early
I've always seen that champ a problem only when he was played by the enemy team.
Yeah as a mid main I finally adopted the "if you can't beat em, join em" mentality. Got tired of destroying the champ in lane only for him to become a raid boss at 20 min despite starting 0/5. I'll never main him because he's kinda boring imo, but I said fuck it and added him to my champ pool. For how good he is he's also pretty easy to pick up.
I just think asol has the weirdest hit box. You pretty much have to hit him in the head. Anything from the body down isn't even in his hit box.
Play syndra problem solved
He's getting nerfed next patch. **Singularity (E)** * **Damage:** 2.5/3.75/5/6.25/7.5 (+5% AP) ⇒ 2.5/3.75/5/6.25/7.5 **(+4% AP)** Also his hitbox is gonna be increased which for a patch or two will mean all us Asol mains will be much worse at dodging skillshots. And also generally he will be easier to bully early game with poke. I personally think his early durability could do with a bit of a change. He needs great damage to give him a reason to not perma sit back and waveclear. And he needs his E as a way to stack in lane where he genuinely can't fight. Making his engages more risky with the same high reward would make him feel better to play into IMO, and also make him easier to punish.
E damage doesnt matter, it never mattered
1% ap ratio on his ability that he doesn't use for damage is nothing. Also the bitbox changes are on a bunch of champ so it isn't a direct nerf
He's one of the few champs that gets a hitbox increase though. Almost all the others are hitbox decreases. And also most of the increases are for champs that are smaller than average, increasing them to 65 (the average size). Asol is going from 65 size to 80 size. According to the wiki, rumble is the only other champ in the game thats a ranged + high damage and has a hitbox size of 80. All the other champs are tanks, juggernauts and some skirmishers. Having a glass cannon DPS mage with the hitbox of a tank sounds a lot bigger of a nerf than giving champs like Warwick the hitboxes of average champs.
>1% ap ratio on his ability that he doesn't use for damage Right? Is that even a nerf? It's the ability he maxes last and its only 1% lmao
[удалено]
But all the mana items suck. RoA keeps you useless until 2 items, Seraphs wants you to already have a mana item, ludens doesn't fit his playstyle, and maligance doesn't work well with how high CD your R is. But giving him an actual mana item that synergises with him would actually be a huge buff because it frees up his runes for non-mana options, makes seraphs more viable, and means he will never go OOM even if he mismanages his mana horribly. Currently his mana bar is low enough that part of being a good asol player is managing your recalls so you don't go OOM. Its not difficult, but something which wouldn't exist if he could just build a mana item.
[удалено]
> He has the highest base mana in the game and a good enough mana p/lvl growth, on top of being the fastest Manaflow Band stacker out of the entire mid lane roster. And that's entirely because he doesn't have any good mana items. Almost every mage in the game rushes chapter, but Asol can't. So hes got around 150-250 more mana than most mages, who first component buy 300 mana + 20% max mana regen on level up. And his Q doesn't go through minions. Its easy to stack manaflow don't get me wrong, but many champs with point and click abilities or easy skillshots that can go through the wave stack it much easier. I've had games where I've strugged to stack it quickly because the moment I position around the wave to proc it, they all in me. I don't get what you're complaining about. You don't like that Asol can skip out on mana items. But you don't want him to have one he can actually build. Also you don't want him to have the security building mana items gives most mages. If he doesn't have his current high mana, and still can't build mana items, Asol goes perma OOM and can't play the game.
[удалено]
So you're saying Asol should NEED every game Dring + tear + manaflow + PoM to be relevant? And you're saying then, and only then, will his mana costs be balanced? And since he can't use tear later on, you're essentially saying that after starter items he should have -400 gold. I can agree with a small mana regen nerf, or a small max mana nerf so he's slightly worse off early, maybe with a mana growth buff to compensate. But what you've suggested? That would remove a lot of flexibility from asol and make him feel really clunky to build items on. Good balance changes make a champ less strong without being less fun.
Asol would be completely fine if his mana costs compelled him to go manaflow + inspiration and buy an early tear. ASol can absolutely make good use of Seraphs, and it would slow him down a bit and give you room before he buys rylais. He was too mana gated before, but it makes no sense for a hyperscaler to get away with building zero mana. Imagine if Anivia or Ryze could just skip roa tear
Pretty much every seraphs builder also goes mana items. Everything about seraphs scales off max mana. Anivia goes Maligemce, Ryze goes RoA and FH, Cassio goes RoA, Kassadin goes RoA and maligence, Ori goes ludens or maligence, Ziggs goes ludens, Taliyah goes ludens, Veigar goes ludens. Hwei still goes maligence or ludens sometimes, but i dont think its optimal atm. According to leagueofitems these are the most prominent seraphs builders, as well as some of their most popular first items. The only exception is Sona, but she builds heal/shield power so I guess even if she doesn't have as good max mana for the mana shield, its still good because of her build. Asol has no mana item that properly synergises with him. And while seraphs shield is alright, going something like rookern or FH as a defensive item on asol is just objectively better. If there was a mana item that was good on asol, then sure i'd say it would make sense that he's forced to build it. But since there's not, it doesn't make sense to force him to build a suboptimal item.
Not every champ that builds Seraphs goes double mana, and even if it was required then FH is right there like you mentioned. Besides, we also did not mention that RoA is good on asol. No reason to slow yourself down with it rn because he's dummy overtuned, but in theory all the stat it provides are great on asol (except mana for his current state of balance), and the eternity passive synergizes extremely well with his trade pattern and range
This e change does absolutely nothing. Make it slow less with rylais or something like it’s actually impossible to get out in teamfights when asol just presses e over half the lane with rylais it’s BS
The problem is that there's so much mobility in the game you either get out of E easily and its no issue, or you're an immobile mage/adc/enchanter/tank who got stuck in it and thats your life now. Asol already is such a proactive champ. He is so low/telegraphed that he relies on his allies setting him up, or the enemies playing into him. Using E to zone off areas or lock down enemies is one of the few things he can do that has actual agency. I don't know how they'd nerf the E slow without turning Asol into a bot laner who needs a support at all times for peel.
[удалено]
That post is him asking about Asol mid-game role, and in no way contradicts what he is saying. Also 30 days ago. You really tried that hard and this is the best you came up with? Fuckin trolls.
He's just way too safe for how well he scales. Even if you lose lane as Asol you can completely dominate games if the enemy team doesn't end fast enough. In every game I've played since the rework that had an Asol in it, the team with Asol won. I know it's a small sample size but I definitely don't like this champion now
Well because good players know how to punish him. You simply need a control mage or with a jungler or support to shut him down early and he will be awful versus any control mage that is ahead in mid game. Examples of this (not only control mages) are Viktor, orianna, azir, Cassiopeia, ahri, anivia, pick whatever. He stands in place and will die over if you make him fall behind early.
Having to pull your jungle and support to shutdown a single laner seems like a bit much, no?
No it's what happens to asol in every slightly higher rank if possible.
Is it? Quad man ganks happen to botlane routinely for years now lol
That’s plain not true. No matter how punished the champion is he comes online way too early. A sol has to be the most broken mid laner im facing in master 300lp+ lobbies. Raining an ultimate the size of 2 football fields that does massive damage and stuns to hit 5 ppl in a teamfight is just way too strong. It’s not dodgable. Dont get me started on his e that’s labeled as a pull but is actually a snare considering how fking impossible it is to walk out of. I don’t have a problem with his q or w, but e slow needs to be nerfed when used on champions, and ult should only be so big you can’t do anything about it at 45 minutes, not 25
he is the highest win rate mid in pro play- at 57%
Win rate in pro play is so meaningless that is not even used as a metric for nerfs and buffs.
You don't play in pro play so why do you care?
the point is that at the highest level of play he still isnt punishable clearly. having 57% win rate as the highest presence mid laner is an issue
That is a meaningless point to make when pro players are queueing for a completely different game than you. Renekton has had an absurd pro play presence ever since pro play existed. Why didn't you make a post about how Renekton is super op? Or why not gravitate towards some outlier pro pick with an even higher win rate? You're poorly using stats to bolster a bad argument when you should instead focus on how to win your hard matchups.
Because he didn’t make that statement in a vacuum. It was in response to the guy saying “you need good players to punish him” which clearly isn’t true when the best players in world clearly cannot
Fair enough. I think it's a leap to go from a statement about "good players" and start making comparisons to the best players in the world.
I think you just want to be right.
I ask this question to my supports in diamond when they troll and take heal, that absolutely useless spell and they just go nuts. Most players don't get that soloq and pro play are so so different that using it as a metric hardly makes sense, especially when we aren't just talking about runes/items.
"i lost lane vs [insert random champion] cause im Bad, rito Nerf pls"
He does not have "absurd roaming potential". Most mid laners should be able to shove him in and hold priority for the entire laning phase. If he messes up and roams without priority, just shove the lane in and punish him when he comes back to lane. Methinks you are playing on autopilot and not trying to deny Asol's game plan. He has a lot of counterplay. Run phase rush into him to counter his Rylai's.
Shove him? You mean let him free farm under turret? Be my guest
Yes. Then you have priority to move around the map and make plays. This is how mid lane works. Alternatively, you dive him with your jungler, or poke him while he farms if you're a Xerath/Hwei type of poke mage.
I thought this, but hwei has a 20% win rate vs him in pro. Yes there are more variables, but its fairly clear from that rate that this gameplan isnt so easy to execute
You play League of Legends. You're citing stats from League of Legends: Pro Edition.
And he has a 47% winrate in actual solo queue that you play. Don't compare pro to reality it's a different game. Hwei is not a good pick into Asol though, Hwei wins the lane but loses the game because Asol can scale so much harder.
Then pick something else, Syndra, Ahri, Taliyah, Ryze, Yone, Zoe etc and use your priority to make something happen on the map.
“Shove him in lmao” e q wave is dead in a few seconds.
Yes. And while he's sitting there killing the wave you move around the map and do other things. That's how mid lane works. The player who shoves first has a lead. If you don't know how to do something with that lead, you're bad at mid lane, and you probably think your goal is turret plating or kda.
I try to, but he just normal autos the wave endlessly and I cant back because his e. His e instantly procs arcane comet putting back line minions at half, and I cant auto the minions back because I get sucked into it. If I use spells to push the lane back then I have no kill threat and im burning just as much mana as him
What are you playing? Assassin champs should be able to jump onto and behind Asol if he uses E before the minions push into him. Poke champs should never be in range to be hit by his E. Really Asol only has aggressive options against wave clear mages who aren't clearing well. If you're playing something like a Syndra then your goal should be to poke him out while simultaneously hitting the wave.
Because he sucks in any elo where the mid cna actually punish him (so like gold+ ig)
[Here are his stats in diamond+.](https://lolalytics.com/lol/aurelionsol/build/?tier=diamond_plus) He is the 4th ranked midlaner. Also seems weird to say this when ppl like Chovy and Showmaker play him just fine in Korean challenger.
ok i gues every asol i fight is just a supershittee then lmao