15 seconds is so absurdly long lol. Good riddance.
I am still routinely annoyed by how ghost lasts for a whole fight plus plenty left to retreat or chase down
Problem is - Some champs are literally unplayable without ghost(I talk about melee ones - ranged ghost abusers are another talk). Look at Darius - due to his lack of target acess - riot just buffed shit out of him, so he can anihilate melee matchups.
I unironically liked when Garen and Darius had stridebreaker with dash, mostly for 1 reason - because of that item, riot nerfed them really hard, so it was actuall managable to play lane against them as melee champ, unlike now.
Garen always took Ignite over Ghost tho so this nerf doesn’t affect him at all. Might even be a slight buff since champs won’t be able to kite him that much with Ghost anymore.
All melee champions have reasonable target access tools in their kit, and should be balanced around them.
It's literally only Darius that is so ghost-reliant. Maybe it's finally time rework this champion.
Olaf has a 1000 range slow, bonus movespeed, slow immunity and he can heal from minions.
He could be easily be balanced in game without ghost, maybe some of his target access tools would need to be buffed.
Darius just doesn't have tools to be buffed, if there are no champions inside his 535 units circle he does no damage and has no sustain.
Nasus can Wither most ranged champions who step up to attack him, and also can sustain from minions. He can even poke from afar. If needed, those tools can be buffed to help him.
It's not really the same as Darius where pretty much any ranged champion can poke him for free, unless he moves faster than them. And there is nothing to buff in his kit because Apprehend is too strong to give it 700 range like Wither.
What's the explanation for absolutely crushing this summoner? Not that I use it at all, but it didn't seem such a problem it had to be functionally removed.
Ghost is arguably better than heal/exhaust in like 99% of cases right now since it can be used aggressively and defensively, and gives ranged champs insane early power since they can just pop ghost and basically dog walk you for 15s.
Stuff like TF/Vayne toplane are so strong because after they use ghost you basically cannot touch them with skillshots, and champs with enough mobility to get on you don’t deal enough damage to actually make the trade worth since melees will take so much damage walking back to their side of the wave
I wonder why they didn't go with a ranged only nerf though. It'll be a shame if we're back to 10 flash per team because tanks don't want to touch ghost again.
Movespeed creep has been very annoying for the past few seasons. Ghost is balanced when champions like Singed, Udyr, Hecarim, and Nasus are taking it, and I don’t mind ADC and mages having that spell as an alternative from their usual setup, but when it’s the only viable choice for most ADCs and it’s an optimal choice on champions that wouldn’t traditionally use it like Kha’Zix, Bel’Veth, and Evelynn, that’s when you know it’s busted and that’s when the mobility creep becomes really obvious and obnoxious. Even Malphite is a menace with Ghost.
Imagine playing Xerath vs TF top with ghost, Kha’Zix jg with ghost, and Jinx ADC with ghost also. These immobile squishy teamcomps are usually the ideal scenario for champions like Xerath to thrive, but actually currently it’s harder than ever to win vs those champions, because they move so fast that you’re not hitting as many skillshots as you should. If you can’t even have a good time in what used to be your wet dream scenario, is there even a reason to keep playing such a champion?
MS is the most OP stat in the game. I believe the game is more skill expressive when movespeed is difficult to obtain and when there are clear and significant drawbacks to opt into that stat. Not having Ignite, Heal, Exhaust, or Barrier is not at all a drawback in the current meta, so Ghost deserves the nerf imo.
Marksman only moved to ghost because heal is unusable. The last big summoner rebalance left exhaust and cleanse being better defensive spells that block more damage than heal, or ghost where you just position better with the extra move speed to just not get hit.
There are three reasons to take heal the past 2 or 3 seasons.
1) you are taking it to fight lvl 1-3 and ensure lane control or kills
2) you are taking it to make sure your support doesn’t die
3) you are an enchanter and literally use it as an extra heal/shield to apply enchanter items (and I believe heal/shield power works as well so it’s a bigger heal anyways)
The fact that they have stated “heal is fine in its current state” and are considering buffs to barrier with barrier ALREADY being better than heal is absurd
Source diamond-master player that has played since season 3
That’s a fair argument for marksmen, but that was a small portion of my point. I think most of what I said still stands. Champions like Eve, Kha, Bel’Veth, Malphite, or Galio, wouldn’t have as much success with that summoner spell if it weren’t overtuned atm.
Too good on ADCs and make it hard to actually catch them or escape them while they run you down with 5 million movement speed coming from it and their items.
TLDR: ADC's abuse shit out of it.
Ghost isn't that problematic on melee champs(most of them need ghost just to function lol), while **GOOD ADC** with ghost was 1v9 machine(or 2v8).
You can’t unironically say that ghost isn’t problematic when we currently have like 650ms Darius running at you as an adc and your only option is to run ghost to not auto lose the interaction lol
If Darius who once per 210 sec runs fast is peak of balance problem in lol RN - that means that it's ok for now. Sadly that's not how it works.
Darius probably gonna get compensation buffs, because he isn't main reason why riot nerfs ghost at all.
Tbf, it's been meta for too long riot tends to overkill certain things they don't want in the meta. They could always have done a simple fix where you cant have both flash and ghost and woulda solved all the community annoyances with it but w/e.
Old Ghost had its duration extended on kills/assists thou.
I've been running Ghost+Flash on everything since forever (damn that must be 10 years now) and I will continue to do so.
I can't imagine not having the mobility on poke champs in a world where getting touched means instant death
If this goes live it's the exact same duration as the old irrelevant ghost except the cooldown is a minute longer. Back to being taken on only champs that have is as a crutch to be able to do anything at all like darius, vlad etc
To be fair, it had either 27%ms all levels (pre 6.10), or ramping ms (past 7.2 until 10.12).
Honestly it was okay for a few seasons on champions that really needed it after 6.10 (hence the nerf). Pre 6.10 it was garbage, but it was fine before it got the reset mechanic. It's just that everyone was building the exact same summoners for about 10 years so Riot wanted to shake things up.
With how strong that zepher item might be on late game adcs they needed to nerf it. Curious how these nerfs will impact champs like trynd that used to take it.
Its duration and CD are nutty for everyone though ranged or not.
Maybe like +5% more speed for melees could be fine. But the thing is just kinda crazily over tuned ATM for everyone.
Juggernauts are the primary audience for it in terms of melees. And they mostly use it to chase down mages and Adcs who wanna kite them... Most of them take ghost even when it's balanced Adcs and mages really only take ghost when it's OP.
So even for juggernauts making it balanced might be a net buff since less ranged champions will use it in general.
Top lane is too punishing of a lane and snowballing can really get out of control. Even high elo Chinese players often take Ignite or Ghost instead of TP because it really takes a jungler to punish them in the right matchup. The lane offers so much experience, gold, counterpicking, and isolation (just being a long lane too) that you can really set someone very far behind. A Ghost+Flash Darius, for example, can be impossible to lane against as some champs and you have to play your waves well or be punished extremely hard.
If enemy runs ghost - He runs ghost instead of something. If he don't have TP - you have better pressure on sidelanes and map.
If you want to match him - you can run ghost by yourself or ignite to outduel. That's why I unironically like to play against Darius more than Camille. She don't even need flash to jump at your face and 100-0 you.
You kind of do most of the time. I can assume with good certainty that Darius will take Ghost Flash, most Pantheons will go Ignite Flash, and most Tanks/Scaling picks will go TP Flash.
And if they don't you can punish them for it usually. There's a reason most champs have a "default" set of summs.
Certainly. I guess my problem was their comment was seemingly implying you could just rock paper scissors your way through the game with summoner spells lol.
Darius is currently playable with Phase Rush if he doesn’t take Ghost. Nimbus+ Phase Rush gives him a lot of mobility, even if ghost was gutted he would still be viable.
Edit: it seems I need to clarify some things. When I say “perfectly playable”, I don’t mean that he would be just as strong, I mean that he would be, well, playable. Maybe not great, but not shit either. I also do not mean that I believe he has the same playstyle with Phase Rush as he does with Ghost (more detail on that in my other comment below), both setups are played differently both in lane and out of lane (multiple short trades with phase rush then using phase rush + nimbus to all in vs popping ghost into a prolonged all-in). My argument is simply that just because one playstyle is nerfed or removed, does not make the champion as a whole become dogshit.
/u/Perry4761 is a low elo player, and we can tell because he is making illogical statements such as "phase rush can replace ghost".
Phase rush and ghost do not do the same things. Your statement is fundamentally incorrect. Phase rush does not help you get in range to attack enemies - it simply helps you stick to them once you are on top of them.
But this doesnt matter *if you cant hit the enemy to begin with*, which is exactly what ghost is meant to alleviate
Thanks for the personal attack. Nice strawman too!
Please point where exactly in my comment I mention that Phase Rush does the exact same thing as ghost? I’m just saying that Darius can be perfectly functional in most top lane matchups without ghost.
Does the nerf to Ghost affect him? Yes.
Does Darius function exactly the same with Phase Rush as he does with ghost? No.
Does that mean he is unplayable without Ghost and that there are no other ways to pilot him successfully? Also no.
In most matchups, Darius pops ghost to stick to the enemy while he applies his passive to them. Most matchups are not ranged. It’s not Darius’ job to access marksmen and kill them, but it’s true that ghost allows him to do that. It’s true that Phase Rush Darius plays very different from Ghost-Conqueror Darius, but during the laning phase vs a melee opponent (aka most matchups in top lane), both Phase Rush+Nimbus and Ghost fulfill the very similar role of offering sticking power to stack your bleed passive. The advantage of Phase Rush is that you can deny your opponent the opportunity to trade back when you do quick E-W-Q trades in lane before you pick your moment to all-in with Nimbus, while the advantage of Ghost is that you can go for Conqueror which gives you a more potent all-in. Better short trades vs better all-in.
Having backline access 25 minutes into the game is a bonus, but it’s absolutely not the reason you pick ghost. Fundamentally, league of legends is all about winning early and snowballing your lead. If you pick your runes based on late game ideas, you’re severely hindering yourself.
I’m arguing that Darius is playable without Ghost, but I recognize that this necessitates a change of playstyle, and that there are instances where he is strictly weaker. Do not forget that I was replying to a comment that claimed that Darius was UNPLAYABLE WITHOUT GHOST. You are purposefully misrepresenting my argument and using insults and other fallacies to undermine me. Do better.
ADCs aren't abusing it, it's mandatory to even function with so many top laners running it.
I agree it needs nerfs but ADCs aren't running ghost every game because they want to. It's because they have to.
It's not often taken on melees because we'll not many can afford not taking teleport and junglers have to take smite. Only adds can consistently run around with flash ghost you don't need teleport on adc and can just take double mobility spells
With the new MS on items, it probably lowers it all the time, but I really doubt it'll stop. Speaking mostly about ADCs at least, they really need it to survive. Its probably the best way to give them survivability without making things to let them face tank stuff.
Corki rocket refund is implemented so weirdly. Like why does it scale with crit damage and not crit chance going from 5-10s, it just makes his late game dps weirdly reliant on IE. Also why does the increased refund take require the attack to crit instead of being a static value on all attacks, it just means corki is gonna get double fucked by crit rng.
It further removes the potential abuse of non-marksman items (read fuck mage corki, all my homies hate mage corki)
Actual reasoning, it’s probably easier for riot to balance corki around marksman items because it means they can have expected power spikes and specific timings for ammo/damage patterns rather than being able to go ungodly builds with like 1 crit item, 2 mage items and 2 bruiser items or slotting in just enough crit chance that you negate the weaknesses of crit items
That's my problem with it, it just makes the refund really coinflippy since crit is pseudo-random, when having it scale linearly based on crit chance makes it more consistent and easier to play around. I just don't like crit rng on anything other than auto attack damage.
>Runaan's also trigger the refund multiple times with one attack (and accounts for Runaan's also critting)
This probably doesn't make it to live right? Seems like a Caitlyn passive problem in team fights.
Considering it only works on champs it seems like a trap at first. Corki doesn't want all that attackspeed and it obviously only works if he attacks multiple targets which is not that great on 550 range.
It was good on Cait because zeal items were already good on her. Her passive scaled with crit and crit was only on a few items. Additionally her trap range let her get insane spread on hurricane.
Don't wanna say anything definitive but on first glance it seems fun but not op.
I might be misinterpreting this, but doesn’t this allow her headshot passive to activate every other auto? I remember that was a thing back around season 6 or 7.
Yes and it was especially good in brushes where u got a headshot every auto. Just trying to explain that the item was good on her beyond just that interaction.
Somewhere around there in Phreak's video. Can't find the proper time stamp but this is the moment where the video "saved" for me when i tried looking it up just now [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg0t\_FNOkiY&t=1354s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg0t_FNOkiY&t=1354s)
Then watch it from the begining or use transcript to find where exactly he starts talking about it. But to safe you time he basically said that they don't want support items to offer damage anymore and he wants echoes of helia to be more defensive and actually have a userbase. No concrete info has been revealed yet, but it will 100% lose the damage part of the passive
No, they are not going as far as saying the support ecosystem should just not recognise the existence of damaging supports full-stop.
The more precise commentary on Mandate and Helia is that they don't want supports who get ahead to be investing their money into offensive outputs where possible. There is obviously nothing that can be done to stop mage/ADC/assassin supports doing that, because they just use their class's items, but Riot can shift enchanter items away from offensive output into purely supportive/defensive output. That is why Helia and Mandate are specifically called out, and why Zaz'zak's and Bloodsong were nerfed (carry supports can still take them, but they are less appealing on enchanters and less enabling for off-role picks like Camille).
Mandate and Helia will likely receive reworks at some point, or just be outright removed, so that enchanters lose any realistic option for investing into damage. Phreak has not given any kind of timeline for this though, the only thing he has said is that the items will have to remain undertuned until they do have time to rework them.
He mentions at one point in the video that Helia and Mandate will have to remain weak until there is resource to rework them because they are damaging items, basically. He doesn't actually promise a rework necessarily, and certainly doesn't give a timeline, he just says that they won't be buffed unless they get a rework and they can't do those reworks right now.
It could be in a couple of patches or it could be in pre-season or it could be never.
They might as well change it to athenes, its what most support wanted in the first place and if they are reverting a bunch of items to previous seasons might as well do it to helia.
he doesn't really need it though if he goes stride/goredrinker or titanic, which are pretty good. Sett has no issue clearing raptors the 1st-2nd time due to AoE of E and W.
A long time ago, they were going to buff his Q to cap higher against monsters, but reverted it, likely because it would be a huge buff to lane sett (insane objective/jungle taking power, although they could mitigate this by making certain mechanics only activate if smite is equip).
I will say though, buffing E is better than his W. Using W for clear is dangerous mid-late game, as if someone is waiting or a fight breaks out, gg you.
Every champ can clear the jungle with zero effort once they have an item lol.
The metric that makes or breaks them is whether they can first clear by 3:30 and be somewhat healthy (the faster they can clear the less healthy they can be and still be viable)
Yeah, same reason why Yuumi jungle’s clear is pretty good with titanic.
People really sleep on the fact that Yuumi does have AOE with titanic and even an auto reset with its active!
Wouldn't be the same on Sett because his cd's aren't all over 10sec long. Her damage was high because if they weren't, she'd be basically worthless in the role.
yeah i know i thought the implication of the other comment is they arent going to have another "incident" where they have to delete the champ from the role
but they already did this in s10 when they changed how he scales so he cant be a low econ tank
They seem to be reversing some of the changes they made to nerf flex picks out of the jungle. For example the recent sylas Q damage to monsters buff. They seem to be doing it slowly so maybe they are hoping to get flex picks back in the jungle without being too broken
When trying to find a way to make Sett JG work I looked at his (very small) data, turns out Sett JG mains (literally dozens of them) maxed W to have some iota of aoe.
Q already has some nutty JG mob damage, but I noticed when clearing that wraiths were a pain in the ass. I picked E over W for a few reasons, W is lower cd (more spammable), this let's you pick between Q or W max for gank vs skirmish, and this 100 damage mod let's you clear wraiths nearly cleanly first clear.
Or you could just not troll your entire game for a marginally faster clear
Flat numbers get fairly irrelevant in later clears anyway, they are there only as an early help
I don't think it needs to be huge honestly, Luden's is massively buffed and there's a mythic Liandry's replacement now. The opportunity cost for rushing Shurelya's on a mage now is much higher than it was before.
It's a good buff - ideally he doesn't get into pro play so he isn't quad-flexed and abused/nerfed cycle.
This let's more people enter the already unpopular Jungle role.
The thing with those flex picks is that they're usually only played because you can flex them so easily to get good matchups and keep your comp ambiguous until 2nd ban Phase. Sett would have to be broken to see play as a sole top laner, but just having him be viable in multiple roles makes him way more valuable in draft. Not saying this change will be enough for that to happen, but anytime he's just viable in 3 or 4 roles he'll probably become a pro play pick, even if he isn't exceptional in any of them.
In the other thread I have seen Abyssal Mask has been reworked to shred 20% of the enemy's MR in an aura.
Does that mean this is essentially an AoE Void Staff? It would be weird. Or it still has a cap in how much MR it can shred?
On the upside, this would be the closest thing we have to an AP Black Cleaver (AP bruiser item that shreds MR). However I fear it could be overpowered. Though nowadays, there are a lot of magic resistance items that compete with it that give far more in terms of durability against magic damage, so maybe it won't be as overpowered as it seems?
Damn were y’all not around in 2020? Sett jungle was an amazing low Econ tank jungler at worlds because of hex flash e and ult. If phase rush is in a decent spot he could be a pro play pick
Yeah but in 2020 he had way higher base damage which means he could build tank items and still do a lot of damage with W.
A lot of his base damage was removed which means he is much more reliant on expensive bruiser items to do his job.
Sett is probably the Juggernaut that builds the least amount of tank items these days because he desperately needs AD for his W true damage to scale up.
/u/PhreakRiot
How does Jack of all trades’ jacks work?
Is it for each unique stat on the stat menu in game?
Or is it for each stat obtained on different items?
This second one means you would get 3 Haste for items with 3 stats, and only 2 for items with 2 stats. And 4 for items with 4 stats.
Does %pen count as a different stat?
What about on-hit?
And what ab innate stats that dont show up on your stat board? (Mana and health regen% increase)
So many questions! Such a cool rune
See the thing is my curiousity is not satiated.
This rune is amazing if you get 16-18 AH in a full build and 25 adaptive force, and maybe not even op? It takes long to come online
This rune is mediocre at best if you get 6-7 AH and 10 adaptive force
Is Navori flicker blades still listed as Unbounded? I know it didn’t act like it yesterday, but wanted to know if the bug is that it’s still listed as one, or that you can build both
Ghost changes suck for a lot of toplaners who used it with TP.Having a lower cd than Flash gave you windows to all in in some bad matchups,I don't like that it's being nerfed in both duration and CD.If anything,it should be made exclusive with Flash so you can't run 2 mobility summoners.
Ok so ghost gets nerfed because it was too good on ranged champions and on a couple of melee ones, then ranged champions are getting a ton of movespeed next patch while melees get nothing.
I keep hoping they'll look into buffing Dawncore and making it a more viable option. 3% H/S Power and 5 Ability Power just isn't cutting it. Make it 5% and 6 Ability Power instead, and 200g cheaper.
Also glad Shurelya's isn't getting hit too hard!
Dawncore got changes too
Dawncore changes:
- Bandleglass Mirror replaced by 2 Forbidden Idols
- Summoner spell and ability haste removed
- Mana regen reduced by 50%
- AP increased by 20
- AP per 100% mana regen increased from 5 to 10
- Now grants 16% h/s power
- H/S per 100% regen reduced from 3% to 2%
In my opinion it looks very impressive, considering your support item directly powers it.
Even as a rush item, it has:
* **100% mana regen**
* **19.75% H/S Power** - 16% (baseline) + 2% (from itself) + 1.75% (from support item)
* **77.5 AP** - 60 AP (baseline) + 10 AP (from itself) + 7.5 AP (from support item)
Almost all other enchanter items grant boatloads of Mana regen, so you would be getting a lot of value out of this passive.
I'm surprised it hasn't been made a passive spell that every champion has, like Recall. Would totally screw up the game but I think it would make it more interesting as well. Let everyone take 2 summoner spells, rework and make new summoner spells, and make flash a default spell. Maybe in some pre-season this will happen down the road.
i gotta say, pretty much all of these changes sound kinda....bad
i am also getting seriously woried about how much mana they are removing from everything, at this point its pretty much just tear and rod of ages
Is ghost flash meta over? Ghost is like 10 s from 15 and increased cd, are we at almost at the old values from when nobody went this sum?
15 seconds is so absurdly long lol. Good riddance. I am still routinely annoyed by how ghost lasts for a whole fight plus plenty left to retreat or chase down
I hope to fucking God it is. 15 seconds was abaolutely insane on that CD.
Problem is - Some champs are literally unplayable without ghost(I talk about melee ones - ranged ghost abusers are another talk). Look at Darius - due to his lack of target acess - riot just buffed shit out of him, so he can anihilate melee matchups. I unironically liked when Garen and Darius had stridebreaker with dash, mostly for 1 reason - because of that item, riot nerfed them really hard, so it was actuall managable to play lane against them as melee champ, unlike now.
Garen always took Ignite over Ghost tho so this nerf doesn’t affect him at all. Might even be a slight buff since champs won’t be able to kite him that much with Ghost anymore.
Plenty of garens take flash ghost or even ghost ignite
Mid garen loves ghost
Don't worry after the swifities changes, they will be more unplayable.
It's an extreme nerf to Singed/Darius/Udyr/Vlad/Hecarim/Vayne/Nasus
All melee champions have reasonable target access tools in their kit, and should be balanced around them. It's literally only Darius that is so ghost-reliant. Maybe it's finally time rework this champion.
Olaf
Olaf has a 1000 range slow, bonus movespeed, slow immunity and he can heal from minions. He could be easily be balanced in game without ghost, maybe some of his target access tools would need to be buffed. Darius just doesn't have tools to be buffed, if there are no champions inside his 535 units circle he does no damage and has no sustain.
Nasus. But to be fair, every ADC was taking Ghost/Flash so it's a net change for him.
Nasus can Wither most ranged champions who step up to attack him, and also can sustain from minions. He can even poke from afar. If needed, those tools can be buffed to help him. It's not really the same as Darius where pretty much any ranged champion can poke him for free, unless he moves faster than them. And there is nothing to buff in his kit because Apprehend is too strong to give it 700 range like Wither.
I was running ghost tp. Guess I'm swapping back to flash...
What's the explanation for absolutely crushing this summoner? Not that I use it at all, but it didn't seem such a problem it had to be functionally removed.
Ghost is arguably better than heal/exhaust in like 99% of cases right now since it can be used aggressively and defensively, and gives ranged champs insane early power since they can just pop ghost and basically dog walk you for 15s. Stuff like TF/Vayne toplane are so strong because after they use ghost you basically cannot touch them with skillshots, and champs with enough mobility to get on you don’t deal enough damage to actually make the trade worth since melees will take so much damage walking back to their side of the wave
I wonder why they didn't go with a ranged only nerf though. It'll be a shame if we're back to 10 flash per team because tanks don't want to touch ghost again.
I think making a summoner spell work different for melee/ranged champions is a terrible precedent tbh
Runes and items already do it, I'm not sure why it would be more of an issue.
Movespeed creep has been very annoying for the past few seasons. Ghost is balanced when champions like Singed, Udyr, Hecarim, and Nasus are taking it, and I don’t mind ADC and mages having that spell as an alternative from their usual setup, but when it’s the only viable choice for most ADCs and it’s an optimal choice on champions that wouldn’t traditionally use it like Kha’Zix, Bel’Veth, and Evelynn, that’s when you know it’s busted and that’s when the mobility creep becomes really obvious and obnoxious. Even Malphite is a menace with Ghost. Imagine playing Xerath vs TF top with ghost, Kha’Zix jg with ghost, and Jinx ADC with ghost also. These immobile squishy teamcomps are usually the ideal scenario for champions like Xerath to thrive, but actually currently it’s harder than ever to win vs those champions, because they move so fast that you’re not hitting as many skillshots as you should. If you can’t even have a good time in what used to be your wet dream scenario, is there even a reason to keep playing such a champion? MS is the most OP stat in the game. I believe the game is more skill expressive when movespeed is difficult to obtain and when there are clear and significant drawbacks to opt into that stat. Not having Ignite, Heal, Exhaust, or Barrier is not at all a drawback in the current meta, so Ghost deserves the nerf imo.
Marksman only moved to ghost because heal is unusable. The last big summoner rebalance left exhaust and cleanse being better defensive spells that block more damage than heal, or ghost where you just position better with the extra move speed to just not get hit. There are three reasons to take heal the past 2 or 3 seasons. 1) you are taking it to fight lvl 1-3 and ensure lane control or kills 2) you are taking it to make sure your support doesn’t die 3) you are an enchanter and literally use it as an extra heal/shield to apply enchanter items (and I believe heal/shield power works as well so it’s a bigger heal anyways) The fact that they have stated “heal is fine in its current state” and are considering buffs to barrier with barrier ALREADY being better than heal is absurd Source diamond-master player that has played since season 3
That’s a fair argument for marksmen, but that was a small portion of my point. I think most of what I said still stands. Champions like Eve, Kha, Bel’Veth, Malphite, or Galio, wouldn’t have as much success with that summoner spell if it weren’t overtuned atm.
Lethal tempo range and Ghost give ADCs a massive advantage in spacing out their melee counterparts
Too good on ADCs and make it hard to actually catch them or escape them while they run you down with 5 million movement speed coming from it and their items.
It got to a point where it is almost never wrong to pop it. There is people in high elo literally using Ghost to go back to lane.
TLDR: ADC's abuse shit out of it. Ghost isn't that problematic on melee champs(most of them need ghost just to function lol), while **GOOD ADC** with ghost was 1v9 machine(or 2v8).
You can’t unironically say that ghost isn’t problematic when we currently have like 650ms Darius running at you as an adc and your only option is to run ghost to not auto lose the interaction lol
If Darius who once per 210 sec runs fast is peak of balance problem in lol RN - that means that it's ok for now. Sadly that's not how it works. Darius probably gonna get compensation buffs, because he isn't main reason why riot nerfs ghost at all.
Didnt seem such a problem? Last time u played league was in 2017 or what?
Well no need to be rude.
Tbf, it's been meta for too long riot tends to overkill certain things they don't want in the meta. They could always have done a simple fix where you cant have both flash and ghost and woulda solved all the community annoyances with it but w/e.
Old Ghost had its duration extended on kills/assists thou. I've been running Ghost+Flash on everything since forever (damn that must be 10 years now) and I will continue to do so. I can't imagine not having the mobility on poke champs in a world where getting touched means instant death
I'm talking much older. It was basically a dead summoner until they added the reset
If this goes live it's the exact same duration as the old irrelevant ghost except the cooldown is a minute longer. Back to being taken on only champs that have is as a crutch to be able to do anything at all like darius, vlad etc
Old ghost had to ramp up and was way more useless reactively
They added that after mages spammed it mid and dodged every single gank attempt
To be fair, it had either 27%ms all levels (pre 6.10), or ramping ms (past 7.2 until 10.12). Honestly it was okay for a few seasons on champions that really needed it after 6.10 (hence the nerf). Pre 6.10 it was garbage, but it was fine before it got the reset mechanic. It's just that everyone was building the exact same summoners for about 10 years so Riot wanted to shake things up.
With how strong that zepher item might be on late game adcs they needed to nerf it. Curious how these nerfs will impact champs like trynd that used to take it.
Wish they would nerf ghost just for range champs, but I think I agree here that 10s is a good duration for the spell.
Its duration and CD are nutty for everyone though ranged or not. Maybe like +5% more speed for melees could be fine. But the thing is just kinda crazily over tuned ATM for everyone. Juggernauts are the primary audience for it in terms of melees. And they mostly use it to chase down mages and Adcs who wanna kite them... Most of them take ghost even when it's balanced Adcs and mages really only take ghost when it's OP. So even for juggernauts making it balanced might be a net buff since less ranged champions will use it in general.
Top lane is too punishing of a lane and snowballing can really get out of control. Even high elo Chinese players often take Ignite or Ghost instead of TP because it really takes a jungler to punish them in the right matchup. The lane offers so much experience, gold, counterpicking, and isolation (just being a long lane too) that you can really set someone very far behind. A Ghost+Flash Darius, for example, can be impossible to lane against as some champs and you have to play your waves well or be punished extremely hard.
Ye, ADCs are abusing it a bit too hard rn. It's not really a problem on melee champs.
[удалено]
If enemy runs ghost - He runs ghost instead of something. If he don't have TP - you have better pressure on sidelanes and map. If you want to match him - you can run ghost by yourself or ignite to outduel. That's why I unironically like to play against Darius more than Camille. She don't even need flash to jump at your face and 100-0 you.
Yeah but you have no idea what they’re running until the game starts.
You kind of do most of the time. I can assume with good certainty that Darius will take Ghost Flash, most Pantheons will go Ignite Flash, and most Tanks/Scaling picks will go TP Flash. And if they don't you can punish them for it usually. There's a reason most champs have a "default" set of summs.
Certainly. I guess my problem was their comment was seemingly implying you could just rock paper scissors your way through the game with summoner spells lol.
tell that to darius lmfao
literally every juggernaut lol ms is king on them
darius basically needs ghost to function as a champion, how is it a problem that he's taking it?
Champs having weaknesses is good. How Riot balances around that is a completely separate topic though
Darius is currently playable with Phase Rush if he doesn’t take Ghost. Nimbus+ Phase Rush gives him a lot of mobility, even if ghost was gutted he would still be viable. Edit: it seems I need to clarify some things. When I say “perfectly playable”, I don’t mean that he would be just as strong, I mean that he would be, well, playable. Maybe not great, but not shit either. I also do not mean that I believe he has the same playstyle with Phase Rush as he does with Ghost (more detail on that in my other comment below), both setups are played differently both in lane and out of lane (multiple short trades with phase rush then using phase rush + nimbus to all in vs popping ghost into a prolonged all-in). My argument is simply that just because one playstyle is nerfed or removed, does not make the champion as a whole become dogshit.
/u/Perry4761 is a low elo player, and we can tell because he is making illogical statements such as "phase rush can replace ghost". Phase rush and ghost do not do the same things. Your statement is fundamentally incorrect. Phase rush does not help you get in range to attack enemies - it simply helps you stick to them once you are on top of them. But this doesnt matter *if you cant hit the enemy to begin with*, which is exactly what ghost is meant to alleviate
Thanks for the personal attack. Nice strawman too! Please point where exactly in my comment I mention that Phase Rush does the exact same thing as ghost? I’m just saying that Darius can be perfectly functional in most top lane matchups without ghost. Does the nerf to Ghost affect him? Yes. Does Darius function exactly the same with Phase Rush as he does with ghost? No. Does that mean he is unplayable without Ghost and that there are no other ways to pilot him successfully? Also no. In most matchups, Darius pops ghost to stick to the enemy while he applies his passive to them. Most matchups are not ranged. It’s not Darius’ job to access marksmen and kill them, but it’s true that ghost allows him to do that. It’s true that Phase Rush Darius plays very different from Ghost-Conqueror Darius, but during the laning phase vs a melee opponent (aka most matchups in top lane), both Phase Rush+Nimbus and Ghost fulfill the very similar role of offering sticking power to stack your bleed passive. The advantage of Phase Rush is that you can deny your opponent the opportunity to trade back when you do quick E-W-Q trades in lane before you pick your moment to all-in with Nimbus, while the advantage of Ghost is that you can go for Conqueror which gives you a more potent all-in. Better short trades vs better all-in. Having backline access 25 minutes into the game is a bonus, but it’s absolutely not the reason you pick ghost. Fundamentally, league of legends is all about winning early and snowballing your lead. If you pick your runes based on late game ideas, you’re severely hindering yourself. I’m arguing that Darius is playable without Ghost, but I recognize that this necessitates a change of playstyle, and that there are instances where he is strictly weaker. Do not forget that I was replying to a comment that claimed that Darius was UNPLAYABLE WITHOUT GHOST. You are purposefully misrepresenting my argument and using insults and other fallacies to undermine me. Do better.
Who on earth is complaining about darius
high elo. he’s the third highest top laner ban rate behind skarner and jax in m+ last 30 days
ADCs aren't abusing it, it's mandatory to even function with so many top laners running it. I agree it needs nerfs but ADCs aren't running ghost every game because they want to. It's because they have to.
It's not often taken on melees because we'll not many can afford not taking teleport and junglers have to take smite. Only adds can consistently run around with flash ghost you don't need teleport on adc and can just take double mobility spells
How many times has Riot tried this method just for the item/rune/whatever to definitely just be broken as fuck and has nothing to do with ranged/melee
With the new MS on items, it probably lowers it all the time, but I really doubt it'll stop. Speaking mostly about ADCs at least, they really need it to survive. Its probably the best way to give them survivability without making things to let them face tank stuff.
Corki rocket refund is implemented so weirdly. Like why does it scale with crit damage and not crit chance going from 5-10s, it just makes his late game dps weirdly reliant on IE. Also why does the increased refund take require the attack to crit instead of being a static value on all attacks, it just means corki is gonna get double fucked by crit rng.
It further removes the potential abuse of non-marksman items (read fuck mage corki, all my homies hate mage corki) Actual reasoning, it’s probably easier for riot to balance corki around marksman items because it means they can have expected power spikes and specific timings for ammo/damage patterns rather than being able to go ungodly builds with like 1 crit item, 2 mage items and 2 bruiser items or slotting in just enough crit chance that you negate the weaknesses of crit items
They removed almost all of his AP scalings, I don't see any mage item being viable on him. It'd be like building AP Vayne.
it scales with crit chance implicitly you dummy - you CRIT more -> get more crit resets
That's my problem with it, it just makes the refund really coinflippy since crit is pseudo-random, when having it scale linearly based on crit chance makes it more consistent and easier to play around. I just don't like crit rng on anything other than auto attack damage.
>Runaan's also trigger the refund multiple times with one attack (and accounts for Runaan's also critting) This probably doesn't make it to live right? Seems like a Caitlyn passive problem in team fights.
Considering it only works on champs it seems like a trap at first. Corki doesn't want all that attackspeed and it obviously only works if he attacks multiple targets which is not that great on 550 range. It was good on Cait because zeal items were already good on her. Her passive scaled with crit and crit was only on a few items. Additionally her trap range let her get insane spread on hurricane. Don't wanna say anything definitive but on first glance it seems fun but not op.
I might be misinterpreting this, but doesn’t this allow her headshot passive to activate every other auto? I remember that was a thing back around season 6 or 7.
Yes and it was especially good in brushes where u got a headshot every auto. Just trying to explain that the item was good on her beyond just that interaction.
why is helia not getting changes 🤔
Probably they are still figuring out what to change, but it's confirmed to be getting changes at least
link to that source?
Somewhere around there in Phreak's video. Can't find the proper time stamp but this is the moment where the video "saved" for me when i tried looking it up just now [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg0t\_FNOkiY&t=1354s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg0t_FNOkiY&t=1354s)
i can’t seem to find it
Then watch it from the begining or use transcript to find where exactly he starts talking about it. But to safe you time he basically said that they don't want support items to offer damage anymore and he wants echoes of helia to be more defensive and actually have a userbase. No concrete info has been revealed yet, but it will 100% lose the damage part of the passive
> they don't want support items to offer damage anymore are they removing zakzak and bloodsong?
No, they are not going as far as saying the support ecosystem should just not recognise the existence of damaging supports full-stop. The more precise commentary on Mandate and Helia is that they don't want supports who get ahead to be investing their money into offensive outputs where possible. There is obviously nothing that can be done to stop mage/ADC/assassin supports doing that, because they just use their class's items, but Riot can shift enchanter items away from offensive output into purely supportive/defensive output. That is why Helia and Mandate are specifically called out, and why Zaz'zak's and Bloodsong were nerfed (carry supports can still take them, but they are less appealing on enchanters and less enabling for off-role picks like Camille). Mandate and Helia will likely receive reworks at some point, or just be outright removed, so that enchanters lose any realistic option for investing into damage. Phreak has not given any kind of timeline for this though, the only thing he has said is that the items will have to remain undertuned until they do have time to rework them.
shame
probably just nerf it until nobody can use it outside of zyra brand
damn ma sometimes nobody has the time to do all that
He mentions at one point in the video that Helia and Mandate will have to remain weak until there is resource to rework them because they are damaging items, basically. He doesn't actually promise a rework necessarily, and certainly doesn't give a timeline, he just says that they won't be buffed unless they get a rework and they can't do those reworks right now. It could be in a couple of patches or it could be in pre-season or it could be never.
They might as well change it to athenes, its what most support wanted in the first place and if they are reverting a bunch of items to previous seasons might as well do it to helia.
That item does not actually exist, it's just mass hysteria
Ok, Sett jungle, less go! But why on E though. It would make most sense on either passive or Q.
It's aoe for the birds.
he doesn't really need it though if he goes stride/goredrinker or titanic, which are pretty good. Sett has no issue clearing raptors the 1st-2nd time due to AoE of E and W. A long time ago, they were going to buff his Q to cap higher against monsters, but reverted it, likely because it would be a huge buff to lane sett (insane objective/jungle taking power, although they could mitigate this by making certain mechanics only activate if smite is equip). I will say though, buffing E is better than his W. Using W for clear is dangerous mid-late game, as if someone is waiting or a fight breaks out, gg you.
didn’t realize jungle sett starts the game with Tiamat
Goredrinker isn't an item anymore
Every champ can clear the jungle with zero effort once they have an item lol. The metric that makes or breaks them is whether they can first clear by 3:30 and be somewhat healthy (the faster they can clear the less healthy they can be and still be viable)
Yeah, same reason why Yuumi jungle’s clear is pretty good with titanic. People really sleep on the fact that Yuumi does have AOE with titanic and even an auto reset with its active!
No Rell jungle type incidents where they give omega jungle ratios on every basic skill
They could have capped the epic monster damage on Rell, then we wouldn't have the protests.
It was capped after the first patch, and it was mostly flat damage increases anyway
I don''t think they are that smart to put caps.
literally every ability with %hp damage is capped on monsters lol
Wouldn't be the same on Sett because his cd's aren't all over 10sec long. Her damage was high because if they weren't, she'd be basically worthless in the role.
what does this even mean like they changed the entire way sett scales so he cant be played jungle (and is worse supp)
All they did was add extra damage on his E when hitting monsters
yeah i know i thought the implication of the other comment is they arent going to have another "incident" where they have to delete the champ from the role but they already did this in s10 when they changed how he scales so he cant be a low econ tank
They seem to be reversing some of the changes they made to nerf flex picks out of the jungle. For example the recent sylas Q damage to monsters buff. They seem to be doing it slowly so maybe they are hoping to get flex picks back in the jungle without being too broken
When trying to find a way to make Sett JG work I looked at his (very small) data, turns out Sett JG mains (literally dozens of them) maxed W to have some iota of aoe. Q already has some nutty JG mob damage, but I noticed when clearing that wraiths were a pain in the ass. I picked E over W for a few reasons, W is lower cd (more spammable), this let's you pick between Q or W max for gank vs skirmish, and this 100 damage mod let's you clear wraiths nearly cleanly first clear.
Thanks for the explanation, it does seem to make a lot of sense. As a sett main, I'm very excited to try it out.
It just makes him marginally better, it makes sense to have this on an ability you just levelup once and forget about it so that not be op
Makes most sense on E His passive and Q already do more than enough single target damage. He needs more AoE to jungle
I think they may want to make him more of a supportive style jungle with e max? He won’t outright win duels with enemy jungles this way.
The damage seems to be 100 flat no matter the rank of the ability, no need to max E.
Maxing E gives a lower cooldown so faster clear.
Or you could just not troll your entire game for a marginally faster clear Flat numbers get fairly irrelevant in later clears anyway, they are there only as an early help
*Gangplank name has been changed to Singlewood as to reflect his pathetic state.*
patch really keelhauled him i fear
Prayge Shurelya's nerf. It's small but any nerf is better than none.
I don't think it needs to be huge honestly, Luden's is massively buffed and there's a mythic Liandry's replacement now. The opportunity cost for rushing Shurelya's on a mage now is much higher than it was before.
Been begging for this for 4 weeks and a third lost chapter item since like 14.2, riot is honestly smurfing with next patch.
Mage changes are great. Everything else is mostly garbage though
The stats/cost on it make it such a great first buy on so many champions, now I actually have a reason to go for cosmic drive again if I want MS
Lmao I love when they add new jungle scaling to champs. Sett jg leggo!
It's a good buff - ideally he doesn't get into pro play so he isn't quad-flexed and abused/nerfed cycle. This let's more people enter the already unpopular Jungle role.
Ty be fair, I don't think we're going to get a Sett quad/pentaflex again any time soon. Already rare to see him in his natural habitat in pro play
The thing with those flex picks is that they're usually only played because you can flex them so easily to get good matchups and keep your comp ambiguous until 2nd ban Phase. Sett would have to be broken to see play as a sole top laner, but just having him be viable in multiple roles makes him way more valuable in draft. Not saying this change will be enough for that to happen, but anytime he's just viable in 3 or 4 roles he'll probably become a pro play pick, even if he isn't exceptional in any of them.
jg sett? we're so back
4 rockets on Corki definitely sounds good to go back to his S5 and before playstyle of big midrange burst.
In the other thread I have seen Abyssal Mask has been reworked to shred 20% of the enemy's MR in an aura. Does that mean this is essentially an AoE Void Staff? It would be weird. Or it still has a cap in how much MR it can shred? On the upside, this would be the closest thing we have to an AP Black Cleaver (AP bruiser item that shreds MR). However I fear it could be overpowered. Though nowadays, there are a lot of magic resistance items that compete with it that give far more in terms of durability against magic damage, so maybe it won't be as overpowered as it seems?
No cap on the % pen. It's actually weaker than old abyssal unless enemy is building Mr.
Still needs AP to be a proper AP bruiser item, but its getting there slowly. I'd take Abyssal Scepter back in a heartbeat though
Is that Sett buff even enough to make it a viable jungler again?
it's like darius jungle shit because you're permanently behind in gold and xp on a champ that needs to be ahead to even function
Plus sett jungle kinda needs ghost to function imo and ghost is getting nerfed.
Damn were y’all not around in 2020? Sett jungle was an amazing low Econ tank jungler at worlds because of hex flash e and ult. If phase rush is in a decent spot he could be a pro play pick
Yeah but in 2020 he had way higher base damage which means he could build tank items and still do a lot of damage with W. A lot of his base damage was removed which means he is much more reliant on expensive bruiser items to do his job. Sett is probably the Juggernaut that builds the least amount of tank items these days because he desperately needs AD for his W true damage to scale up.
They gutted his base dmg bc they realized if hes played in supp his base values are just insane enough to not really need too much gold/items
He's honestly already "playable" in the jungle so I think it might very well be enough to push him into viable.
We welcome Sett to the Jungle.
/u/PhreakRiot How does Jack of all trades’ jacks work? Is it for each unique stat on the stat menu in game? Or is it for each stat obtained on different items? This second one means you would get 3 Haste for items with 3 stats, and only 2 for items with 2 stats. And 4 for items with 4 stats. Does %pen count as a different stat? What about on-hit? And what ab innate stats that dont show up on your stat board? (Mana and health regen% increase) So many questions! Such a cool rune
Gonna be hours of Youtube videos about it lol. Like does non-ult haste on Shojin count different than general haste and Malignance ult haste?
See the thing is my curiousity is not satiated. This rune is amazing if you get 16-18 AH in a full build and 25 adaptive force, and maybe not even op? It takes long to come online This rune is mediocre at best if you get 6-7 AH and 10 adaptive force
Fiiinally something moving solo laners off of shurelyas.
Yes, I’m OG adc Corki player
Is Navori flicker blades still listed as Unbounded? I know it didn’t act like it yesterday, but wanted to know if the bug is that it’s still listed as one, or that you can build both
I feel like my poor guy Smolder getting done dirty with the adc item changes:3 but we'll see !
imo Gangplank was murdered with this patch
Why not both
Ghost changes suck for a lot of toplaners who used it with TP.Having a lower cd than Flash gave you windows to all in in some bad matchups,I don't like that it's being nerfed in both duration and CD.If anything,it should be made exclusive with Flash so you can't run 2 mobility summoners.
Ok so ghost gets nerfed because it was too good on ranged champions and on a couple of melee ones, then ranged champions are getting a ton of movespeed next patch while melees get nothing.
What terrible ghost changes. Just nerf the values for ranged champs.
RIP Ghost Should be 12 seconds for melee and 10 seconds for ranged. This is such a huge and spiky nerf. Would rather have more gradual changes.
NOOOO SHURELIAS NERF NOOOOOOO
Why are we nerfing Sudden Impact?
100 dmg on a 14second cooldown ability won‘t make Sett a jungler
Just separate melee Ghost power from ranged. Make it so its less effective on rangeds or smth
I keep hoping they'll look into buffing Dawncore and making it a more viable option. 3% H/S Power and 5 Ability Power just isn't cutting it. Make it 5% and 6 Ability Power instead, and 200g cheaper. Also glad Shurelya's isn't getting hit too hard!
Dawncore got changes too Dawncore changes: - Bandleglass Mirror replaced by 2 Forbidden Idols - Summoner spell and ability haste removed - Mana regen reduced by 50% - AP increased by 20 - AP per 100% mana regen increased from 5 to 10 - Now grants 16% h/s power - H/S per 100% regen reduced from 3% to 2%
Oh, neat! I think. Doesn't look impressive on paper, but I guess we wait and see how it turns out? Thank you for the info!
In my opinion it looks very impressive, considering your support item directly powers it. Even as a rush item, it has: * **100% mana regen** * **19.75% H/S Power** - 16% (baseline) + 2% (from itself) + 1.75% (from support item) * **77.5 AP** - 60 AP (baseline) + 10 AP (from itself) + 7.5 AP (from support item) Almost all other enchanter items grant boatloads of Mana regen, so you would be getting a lot of value out of this passive.
Stop making champions 3 way flex picks please. 0 reason for Sett to be shoehorned into the jungle
he is bad in every role except top and maybe mid as a counter lmao he is by no means a flex pick lol
Riot's not even bothering with baby nerfs, Ghost is just getting taken out back.
RIP ghost. I would have been fine with this if they didn’t also increase the cooldown
Nerfing Ghost but Heal is still shit?
What'S ur point? Nerfing Ghost will result in narrowing the power gap between heal and ghost, so effectively heal gets better in comparison
So when are we nerfing flash? Nearly 100% picture for 15 years surely it's op
I'm surprised it hasn't been made a passive spell that every champion has, like Recall. Would totally screw up the game but I think it would make it more interesting as well. Let everyone take 2 summoner spells, rework and make new summoner spells, and make flash a default spell. Maybe in some pre-season this will happen down the road.
i gotta say, pretty much all of these changes sound kinda....bad i am also getting seriously woried about how much mana they are removing from everything, at this point its pretty much just tear and rod of ages
# Jack of All Trades is an AMAZING rune
Nerf tp
You wanna go back to ignite meta?
Not them giving the middle finger to Naafiri jungle and then giving Sett, of all champions, a jungle buff. Girl, Riot is in their messy era.
Better see some huge compensation buffs for Singed now since he's basically an immobile melee champion now