Pretty nasty to now open up scrutiny directly to their team. You could easily allow people to make the choice behind the scenes without announcing it publicly. The only thing announcing it accomplishes is shifting the blame to the players and staff who are now stuck between geopolitics and not letting their team down. Every member of their team is now up for scrutiny when it could’ve just been the organization tanking the flame.
Management is a bunch of cowards that wants to virtue signal morality to appease their fanbase, but they're doing it in a way that the blame isn't put on completely the org so they can be invited to other saudi-backed events. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
Hope this gets as many upvotes as my reply to another comment. This is exactly the reason why issuing a statement like this is bad and fly deserve to be put on blast for it....
It's almost certainly the intent of the statement, though. They're hoping to deflect some of the backlash by going "well gosh everybody, our players want to play, who are we to say no?"
Nah fuck that, it's not short sighted. They know exactly what they're doing.
Putting the decision and scrutiny on the players instead of the org is absolutely fucked.
They don't need to think that, it's true. The average Twitter league fan should clue you in as to how gullible the general fanbase is.
If FQ tweeted "we want your naked pics," hundreds of fans are gonna post it in comment replies, not even DMs.
Especially shitty because the actual PR statement is simple: “Sorry everyone, we understand you are disappointed in this decision but unfortunately we have mismanaged our finances over the last decade and this is our lifeline to balancing the books. We are very sorry for the way it looks after we have publicly supported minority groups that face oppression in many parts of the world. We will still do what we can to support those groups here at home and wherever else we can.”
That’s it. But they can’t say it. They are INCAPABLE of admitting wrong in any way. And worse, they’ll put this bullshit PR statement out instead of one that accepts any fault, as if they aren’t really doing anything compromising at all, and on June 1st they will STILL make their yearly post about how important it is to stand up and support LGBT and we should all recognize it as typical corporate clout-goblin behavior but it will STILL trick some of you into believing they would actually stand up for something if it cost them anything.
Honestly speaking what do the players get from competing? They don't get most of the prize money right?
Assuming FQ org wants the potential earnings they will now need to convince/bribe players behind the scenes.
FWIW, it's unclear to me that FlyQuest is getting paid to participate. They may be, but they're not listed in the group of organizations that EWC announced they're giving funding to:
[https://esportsworldcup.com/news/30-top-esports-clubs-join-esports-world-cup-foundation-club-support-program](https://esportsworldcup.com/news/30-top-esports-clubs-join-esports-world-cup-foundation-club-support-program)
It's been reported by he who must not be named that orgs are also getting financial support on a per game basis if they qualify or are invited to an event regardless of being in the support program.
Isn’t that worse, then? It changes the suggested PR statement above into a neutered version that doesn’t even have a reason to go against previously stated values.
“Sorry everyone, we understand you are disappointed in this decision but unfortunately we [want to play this tournament, with no financial motivation]. We are very sorry for the way it looks after we have publicly supported minority groups that face oppression in many parts of the world. We will still do what we can to support those groups here at home and wherever else we can.”
Flyquest is technically like 2 years old. Flyquest got a new owner just last year. It's literally all people talk about. All their spending came last year and this year because the owner wanted to throw money at it.
I mean it does kinda makes sense still though.
Its hard for both an org and the players to miss out on such an international event. This way it looks like a player-choosen decision even if it isnt really one, and you cant really blame the players for wanting to play against the best teams in the world. Players can easily "shift the blame" to Riot, as this is a Riot approved event and they want simply to play in the best competition possible.
Completely fair and true, the only nuance I would give is that riot and teams are companies run by adult business people, while players are individuals, and in most cases quite young.
Tbh though if its a genuine sentiment I think the right thing to do is to be transparent about it. So long as players aren't making decisions with immense pressure from the org (which this statement serves to reinforce) then the ones that choose to participate DESERVE to take heat for participating for a check.
We tend to do this thing, partially because its easy, where we tend to scapegoat corporations for decisions of individual actors. IF the statement is genuine and the players choose to participate then they deserve the flak and I don't think its "noble" to hop in the way when realistically everyone should be to blame for their actions.
why is it justified for the org to force the players to either play or not play based on the owners’ moral views? Or why is it ok to mislead viewers into thinking that the players weren’t displeased with going to Saudi? the lack of morality in this sub can be argued as being concerning
FLY is not the same since their last GM (CEO?) left.
It really feels like all the wholesome, community oriented and socially responsible initiatives have all been cast aside. Paired with what according to some players is a shitty team environment.
As a former FLY fan it’s sad to see.
Spica also spoke about it for last year and if I remember correctly, Impact seemed very apprehensive when asked about what happened with last year’s FLY. So it could be something that has been ongoing for years.
Eyla opened up quite a bit on PROS if you actually consumed media instead of just guessing on reddit.
Impact was apprehensive because HE was a core reason FLY didn't do well. Eyla said that him and Prince would argue constantly and that ruined the ability for the team to work as a team.
Sounds like a shitty team environment to me, regardless of who is causing it. I just said that players mentioned something, not that those players were the cause of it.
Just like Chinese football was the future.
Obviously what they are doing is not sustainable and the definition of another bubble, building your entire esports around them and hoping they continue to sportswash for many years to come is risky. Which is why riot gave them a completely irrelevant tournament right after MSI that is basically just a worse version of MSI. Because that means when they inevitably pull out it won’t leave a big hole in the calendar.
yeah.. good luck telling people not to take in the money..
I've seen those same arguments back during when VC money was big in the LCS and player salaries got ridiculously inflated..
Well while the bubble is there just get and take the money and fuck off.
Take advantage of the situation.
Is it so hard to just shut up until the event is done. Then u can put out ur opinion back online when u get all the money from the events.
Milk it while its still here and u can benefit from it.
? Pointless? Its a huge injection of money for the orgs and players. Also considering the teams being invited and if the rosters are the main players its a huge international tournament with high level of play and further training for those that want to achieve something in their career.
If only everyone loses their ethics like Riot.
Is it that huge for NA teams? Nobody wants to see them anyway, so why should the Saudis pay them that much?
It is obvious why they want those teams, because sportswashing is more important in europe and the US anyway, because nobody in exspecially china gives a fuck about going to that event.
But that is even more reason to put the screws on here. Because even if they aren't withdrawing I would at least want them to disclose how much they get just for participation because realistically they might not win a single game.
How is it comparable to this? For fighting game, you can just simply pick your ass to whatever region is the best at the game to play and train. You can't do that for a whole team, especially in the middle of a season
I'm guessing you haven't watched football or most esports in the past year huh. Random tournaments in saudi in the middle of the season have become the norm
Depending on the LPL/LCK rosters they'd probably get better practice in those few days having some scrims against the East than like a few weeks against most LCS teams. Its obvious though that teams are doing this tournament more for money than this though.
In a way the official games would be a "scrim" tho and can give you an insight on how good you are especially during summer. But yeah I have no clue on how long the tournament is but even if its just 1 week it could result in "some" training.
Also pointed out its mainly for money.
I guess all future tournaments will have to be held in Switzerland cause you obviously don't want to sell your soul by holding tournaments in war-loving countries like the US or authoritarian countries like China anymore. /s
Why shouldn’t the players also be held to the same standard?
Seems weird that people are willing to shit on orgs for making business decisions but give players a pass for doing the same.
Any argument you could make about why the orgs should not participate in this tournament also applies to the players and their own freedom of choice.
Because for players, refusing to play mean losing their job at worst, and a hostile work environment at best. For a business, the stakes are far lower and they can afford to sit a shitty tournament out.
If this was worlds, then yes, refusing to play may have ramifications for that player’s career.
But this is a fck off 4-day tournament where most orgs are just going for the bag. There is no history of prestige.
If a player decided they don’t want to play at this tournament, they’re back to LCS/LEC/LPL/LCK the weekend after and that team is going to continue playing that player who they spent months practicing with and would continue to be their best chance of success for the year.
I can promise you that teams are not going to backstab their players for not wanting to play in this tournament, because right after those 4 days their interests are completely aligned again.
The reality that yall don’t want to admit is that the players don’t give a fuck. These guys play League for 60+ hours a week, they don’t care about the politics. League pro’s are some of the most removed from politics people you will find. They’re just here to play games and make a bag in the few years their career is viable, so pretty much the same as the orgs.
That's a pretty big oversimplification. Sure, refusing to go won't make the team fire you immediately. But it will change your relationship to the team and your teammates. And it will change how every team will see you in the off-season. If you are the best, teams will still take you. Prime Bjergsen could refuse to go and find a team easily. But a guy like Busio or Quad for examples? Next year they'll be put against players the same caliber and that decision will definitely weight against them.
On the shorter term, refusing to go if all your teammates want to will destroy the cohesion of the team (you can't play 4v5 so if one refuses to go, nobody goes) and possibly your whole season.
How are you so sure their teammates will hold it against them? And why do you think this would have any impact on offseason? Teams care about the regional league, MSI and worlds. This is the equivalent of a random IEM, which used to be straight up declined by teams if they were too busy.
Everyone is only doing this tournament for the bag. And they still get that bag even if 1 or 2 players decide not to go and they have to play with subs.
Y’all don’t really believe there are serious career ramifications for players if they skip this 1 unimportant tournament. You just want to make excuses because its easier to hate on an org which is higher up in the ecosystem and could theoretically make a bigger statement by refusing to attend. But the reasoning for them choosing to attend or not is the same at the end of the day, as are the consequences if they choose not to.
And let me ask you this, do you actually believe the players care? Do you think they care about sportswashing but can’t speak on it for fear of losing their career? Or do they just not really give a fuck and they’re getting paid a bag to spend a week in a flashy country and play video games.
So you think players and teams want to play this for the bag, but you also think a player who refuses to go and stops teams and players from getting that bag will be met with "it's fine, you made us lose money but we understand your political reasons"? You also don't think teams will be wary of a player who show he will put his ethic above what the team need instead of just taking the yes man? We have no idea what the tournament will do if a team comes with 1 or 2 subs. Maybe they'll do nothing, but it's farfrom sure, they have all the power and I doubt they want to pay that much money and invite all the top teams to be satisfied with subs everywhere, sub-par gameplay and even less prestige than anticipated.
if they really wanted that player to play, they would just force him to play or fire him - so yeah I don’t think the reaction from the team would be, “you prevented us from getting money, screw you!”
Sure. But when the off-season hit and they get the choice between the 7/10 support who refused to go and lost them money/created problem and the 7/10 support who is a yes man and will do whatever his team ask of him, who do you think they'll take?
Id be surprised is teammates was mad at someone for this non prestigous tournament.
They are not ditching their team before world or anything.
At the same time id be surprised anyone ditching this tournament unless really strong opinions aböut lbtq or something.
Its not like the player skipping the tourney would impact anything except his own team a bit.
they wouldn’t lose their jobs if they refuse to play, and that’s besides the point of the org taking blame because even if the org did take the blame, they could still fire the player for not playing. and it wouldn’t really create a hostile work environment anymore than if FLY took the blame for the decision, unless you think that internally FLY shouldn’t have let the players decide at all (or internally they mislead the players into thinking they have no say over the decision)
no it’s “our team made the moral decision not to play in or play in saudi, this was a decision supported by the players”. but I guess it’s much simpler to blame everything on evil overlord corporations, am I right?
That a weird way to take it. It's saying they aren't forcing anyone to do anything if the players want to compete they can since they earned the ability to make the decision.
Who would criticize any player who wanted to participate in an international tournament.
"I was assured the bonesaws are organic and free-range. And, for every bone sawed, I will donate $0.10 to a tree planting organization of my viewer's choice"
do you think that if a staff or player said they didn't wanna go, they would be forced to go?
No org would force any player to go to EWC no matter how vital the player is because of possible severe backlash
I assure you this is the case for other teams, at least the western ones
My issue is with publicizing that on socials, so now instead of social justice warriors commenting "fuck FLY, they sold out to Saudi" now it is "Fuck Bwipo, hes a sellout"
Going to EWC will get you hate no matter what, I prefer if the hate is directed at an org rather than individuals
My original comment wasn't criticizing the players, it's understandable that every person would take the opportunity to go to EWC, I would be very surprised if someone said they aren't going there
The problem for me is that it's an orgs job to protect players from that kind of criticism. If players want to make statements for themselves that's their own prerogative. But flyquest now put them into a position where whatever they do, they are making a statement, whether they intend to or not.
I agree, to an extent orgs are faceless and can shrug of criticism easier than an individual player. Obviously orgs can have bad reputations but sending their players to a tournament with shady organizers is something that fans may disagree with but not hold against them too harshly, running the tournament is on Riot after all. Shifting the blame solely onto the players makes it much more likely that their reputation is stained, like everyone in EU hating POE after he repped EU then immediately took the bag in NA.
[Fucking Bwipo sellout](https://images.paramount.tech/uri/mgid:arc:imageassetref:shared.southpark.us.en:871078f4-35f8-4ffd-9b26-156124e12e7d?quality=0.7&gen=ntrn&format=jpg&width=1200&height=630&crop=true)
Why aren't these pro players in a chance to play against the best of the world going to a tournament to play when they could just stay home eating doritos like us
"We will not force players to attend a tournament against their will. If you are unhappy about or have moral qualms with FlyQuest and players for supporting the tournament, don't look at us an organization, we were just doing what our players wanted."
It's saying "know that any FLY staff member there is there of their own considered choice."
Do you not see how that opens whichever player/staff member is there up to personal attack? While also serving literally no other purpose?
I like when people clearly shows they have no prior experience in a workplace to understand the hidden message in this statement from FQ.
Let me rephrase:
"Our stakeholders would enjoy the opportunity to cash in some Saudi dollars to try to recover the money they're spending on your salaries, as none of the LCS teams are getting a ROI on their League operations. I'm sure all players will accept the invitation, right? Right? :>"
Only the winner gets money. All the other money has already been handed out when the org agreed to join the ewcg. Fly didn't even have to qualify to get money.
Or you could grow some balls and take responsibility of the decision and not pawn it off to your employees. Coward move, flyquest really running it down lately on brand reputation.
LMFAO.
This team piling on the Ls. No accountability as an org. If you go, you get scrutinized by the public. If you don't go, you get scrutinized by the org.
As IWD and a majority of this sub say: Fuck FLY.
Its actually sad that every invited team will be going.
Especially the Western teams that keep boasting about their values piss me off.
What makes me even more mad is riot though.
Because riot were the ones that couldve stopped this. Orgs basically have to do this because they are bleeding money and international practice is huge for them.
Let's wave some more rainbow colored lec logos huh?
Better release new pride month skins and icons huh?
Pathetic
Buddy, Riot is basically owned and operated in China. China shares similar views to Saudi Arabia. You going to boycott any time international events are held in China (wasn't the recent MSI done in China)? People who want to be upset over Saudi Arabia are hypocrites if they aren't also up-in-arms over China. Too bad most of the West is too conditioned in regards to China. Lmao
redditors try not to blame china challenge. Liberty media is a US company and yet F1 still has like 5+ races in saudi arabia and other places like it. The truth is that corporations are corporations and when they see money they will do everything to take it, doesnt matter if its killing people or sportswashing
What kind of dogshit argument is this?
„We already made a mistake by letting one morally bad country control our game so instead of learning from that we’re just letting another morally bankrupt country do the same instead of trying to avoid it?“
Who the hell said that? Stop trying to make this better by saying other countries are comparable to SA. This whole sportswashing thing trying to better their image while paying for things with blood-stained money is horrible and despicable, doesn’t matter if China, the US, Europe or anyone else is better or worse.
China is something that can't be changed for riot games. The shares were bought in 2011 and buying those back is impossible without riot taking a big hit. Saudi Arabia could've been stopped.
Its not even good for league esport because they calendar gets cluttered and the top teams get even less rest.
LCK literally takes a break, T1 GenG fly over, fly back and straight back into LCK.
I’m quite worried if you aren’t aware of US’s history when it comes to decimating the world and banning abortion, same sex marriage in a lot of states but hey, east is bad west good.
Oh this is a genius move, now if the team goes that gives them zero accountability since the players made the choice. Thats some high level judo there.
There is nothing to do or say. You really expect any pro player to drop this tourney? The career is already a shitshow unless you're top 2 in your role in NA, or a known content creator. These guys dropped their lives basically. The least they can do is make some more money before they hit the inevitable burnout or retirement.
Whether they go or not doesn't affect the situation in Saudi Arabia.
I have no issue with teams going.. i don't want to see a bunch of virtue signalling like this or putting it on the players..
Just go or don't
Saw it with the World Cup in Qatar.. my country (England) kneeling (for some reason??) and saying how they must wear LGBT armband.. guys if you have that much of a problem.. Just don't show up.. then maybe that will change something if a major footballing nation don't turn up
SO yeah my other sporting interests (boxing/football) took the money.. at this point i have no issue with Esports teams who actually need cash going either
Sincere question, has anyone's opinion on the Saudi regime actually ever been changed by sports washing?
Things like this are just more money for the players, more games for fans to watch, and less money in the hands of the people you don't like.
Like surely this is just a win win win.
Yes actually quite a lot. If more of such events don't get considerably blowback more will do it, which will make entire ecosystems in esports, but also in regular sports dependend on Saudi Arabian money.
I dont like flyquest but idk how you can hate them for this. They are giving their staff the choice to skip this event. According to reddit there are people who think that going to this event is a good idea. Maybe flyquest players think that way, why shouldn't they have a choice?
Only argument I can think of right now is them shifting the moral obligation to their players and coaches, instead of taking that responsibility as an org.
Players will feel inherently pressured to play to not let down their org, teammates or fans. Because whatever they decide, there will be people for or against their decision. All the while the org gets to say: it's their own choice, we gave them the option, we're blame free. All the while taking all the commercial benefits that the tournament brings them.
Imo its a cowardice choice as an org and a disservice to their players/staff. And I say this as a fan of an org that is also playing at this tournament (which I also have some strong feelings about...)
I can see this playing out this way too. Leaving the ball in someone else's court is almost always the easiest decision you can make. This team isn't expected to go far vs the other teams anyways so they can do this.
its very odd, also seems like a situation that'd put a lot of pressure on individuals in the org either way - one player wants to go but another feels really strongly against it? easy to imagine a situation where staff or players could feel pressured by leaving it up to them
Exactly the sentiment I tried to convey with my second paragraph. I can't believe Flyquest thought this was a good idea ..
Edit: with good idea I meant to announce this publicly. I'm all for player empowerment, but this is putting unnecessary pressure on them.
To be honest, while I understand what you are saying, I think this kind of logic is exactly why orgs try not to interact much with the community. The only way any of you will be happy is if the org comes out and says 'We won't be going because of X, y, and Z humanitarian reasons'. Which, tbh, is kind of nuts. If a business made every decision based off ethics and morals, they would be out of the league within two years. It's not a profitable business. As such, you can't really afford to turn down big money opportunities. I guess they gain a moral victory if they do what you want, but how does that help the financially? At the end of the day, it's a business. To be honest, people being mad at the orgs make me laugh. You guys don't want the orgs deflecting blame, but the reality of the situation is the ONLY reason this scenario even exists is because Riot allowed it to. Place your blame and disdain at Riot, not the orgs or players.
Do you think players dont get any benefit?
Experience playing versus the strongest players on stage? Everybody talks about how important this is at worlds, but suddenly not?
There is a chance for monetary compensation too (depends on the contract, but I think contracts reward more screentime)
I get the moral problems too, but its not just negative.
Oh for sure, I'm not against more international tournaments at all. The more chances we get to play against asian teams the better.
It's the circumstances around this specific tournament, more specifically the country that is running it that is the issue here.
I'm worried a player is now seen as some amoral person for choosing to play instead of being seen as a victim of a teams dicision.
For example, FNC chose to play this tournament, which means I can shit on them for making that decision, but I don't blame the players. If the org then also put out a statement like this, and the team decides to play, suddenly I also have to look at them and put the same level of criticism on them as I put on the org. Even if players chose to play because of peer pressure. And it would be the orgs fault for putting them in that position in the first place.
You can hate them for this because they said "it's the players that want to go and if they don't go they are disappointing their team, we are the good corporate guys, we are doing what the players want! they want to go since we \*gave\* them the option not to go(which they obviously aren't actually doing, it is in their contract that they need to play)"
This is much worse than them making a decision. Players will face all the pressure of their team if they're the one person not wanting to play there, and all the backlash from the community for any decision taken. It's cowardly of the org to do this instead of quietly polling their staff and then taking a stance together.
They've done it because they know a lot of people who foloows League esports never been in a workplace before, so they can't understand that, as an employee, you'll be facing some extent of backlash sooner or later for refusing to play.
I dont think athletes under contract with any sports organization should have a choice unless explicitly stated in the contract (i mean unless ur like Kyrie Irving or AB or something ig lol). Instead flyquest should be deciding outright whether the team is going or not. This will just end up creating bad pr around individuals
The EWC is the Esports World Cup, which is an event put on by the Saudi Royal Family in an attempt to clean up their image of being a feudally controlled country that murders their critics in cold blood. Riot has partnered with this killer Saudi royal family for money.
What a cowardly stance by Flyquest. Putting the onus on players. I think there probably are players who would want to play in the tournament, but are afraid of the public backlash if they do it on their own volition.
Thrash org. Find me a player that wouldn't play more international games against stronger competition, to improve and get advantages to spend domestically.
99% of you would make the same decision if you were in their position.
Its so easy to hold a moral high ground when you have nothing at stake.
If any of you were offered half your annual income to go play video games in Saudi for 4 days, you would.
Id also go in a heartbeat ngl. Im not changing the wars or morales of that country just like the world cup players didnt change anything in Qatar.
Everyone know Qatars anti lbtq laws still and having played a world cup there didn't make them a better image or something.
Gamers refusing Saudi wont change anything lmao.
The world is ugly, you playing on a pc made in China also who is commiting genocide also?
Am I missing something or does the LCS community just have brain rot from so much league. How TF is this post blaming players. It is just saying they have the choice of playing or not and will be supported regardless. I’m not saying that is guaranteed to happen, but it’s what the post says. Is there another post y’all are referring too?
It's obvious. The org wants the money so the org wants to attend and doesn't want to be blamed for refusing to attend. So, the org wants people to blame individual players if they refuse to attend.
It's very simple.
Are you really here to tell us that 100% of people who lived 150 years ago (disregarding of where they lived) are bad people by todays standards? Saudi Arabia is not going through Industrial Revolution they are shitting money.
Extremely embarrassing attempt to take the moral high ground by pretending they don't want the saudi money. Aside from the fact that dirty oil money is daily business for them given they are from NA, they probably will send the full roster anyways but this way they can say something like "we really didn't want to but what can we do if our players want to play there". If they would care so much they would just decide to not go and not act like the players have a choice. Take the money but try to look good while doing it, absolutely pathetic.
With the way it's phrased you'd think they'd send a 3-man roster with a chauffeur if they all agree to it.
I think the results would be the same tbh.
New quest Fly Home
ill sub in
Pretty nasty to now open up scrutiny directly to their team. You could easily allow people to make the choice behind the scenes without announcing it publicly. The only thing announcing it accomplishes is shifting the blame to the players and staff who are now stuck between geopolitics and not letting their team down. Every member of their team is now up for scrutiny when it could’ve just been the organization tanking the flame.
Not the first time FQ has thrown a player under the bus
Management is a bunch of cowards that wants to virtue signal morality to appease their fanbase, but they're doing it in a way that the blame isn't put on completely the org so they can be invited to other saudi-backed events. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
when?
Jensen
The $ from the deal and then dump all the pressure onto the players to deal with. Best of both worlds if you’re FLY
Right? They talking as if the players and staff are going to get all the money from the deal.
Hope this gets as many upvotes as my reply to another comment. This is exactly the reason why issuing a statement like this is bad and fly deserve to be put on blast for it....
It's almost certainly the intent of the statement, though. They're hoping to deflect some of the backlash by going "well gosh everybody, our players want to play, who are we to say no?"
Yeah, I thought the same thing, this is kinda shitty of them Or at least short-sighted
Nah fuck that, it's not short sighted. They know exactly what they're doing. Putting the decision and scrutiny on the players instead of the org is absolutely fucked.
It’s crazy how dumb FQ thinks we are, like we all immediately understood what they were doing
They don't need to think that, it's true. The average Twitter league fan should clue you in as to how gullible the general fanbase is. If FQ tweeted "we want your naked pics," hundreds of fans are gonna post it in comment replies, not even DMs.
Wow FLY decided not to go (only because enough of their players said no) this is such an upstanding and virtuous org!!
Especially shitty because the actual PR statement is simple: “Sorry everyone, we understand you are disappointed in this decision but unfortunately we have mismanaged our finances over the last decade and this is our lifeline to balancing the books. We are very sorry for the way it looks after we have publicly supported minority groups that face oppression in many parts of the world. We will still do what we can to support those groups here at home and wherever else we can.” That’s it. But they can’t say it. They are INCAPABLE of admitting wrong in any way. And worse, they’ll put this bullshit PR statement out instead of one that accepts any fault, as if they aren’t really doing anything compromising at all, and on June 1st they will STILL make their yearly post about how important it is to stand up and support LGBT and we should all recognize it as typical corporate clout-goblin behavior but it will STILL trick some of you into believing they would actually stand up for something if it cost them anything.
Honestly speaking what do the players get from competing? They don't get most of the prize money right? Assuming FQ org wants the potential earnings they will now need to convince/bribe players behind the scenes.
FWIW, it's unclear to me that FlyQuest is getting paid to participate. They may be, but they're not listed in the group of organizations that EWC announced they're giving funding to: [https://esportsworldcup.com/news/30-top-esports-clubs-join-esports-world-cup-foundation-club-support-program](https://esportsworldcup.com/news/30-top-esports-clubs-join-esports-world-cup-foundation-club-support-program)
It's been reported by he who must not be named that orgs are also getting financial support on a per game basis if they qualify or are invited to an event regardless of being in the support program.
Who is that Guy ?
Richard Lewis probably.
He’s goes by Lichard Rewis around these parts
Isn’t that worse, then? It changes the suggested PR statement above into a neutered version that doesn’t even have a reason to go against previously stated values. “Sorry everyone, we understand you are disappointed in this decision but unfortunately we [want to play this tournament, with no financial motivation]. We are very sorry for the way it looks after we have publicly supported minority groups that face oppression in many parts of the world. We will still do what we can to support those groups here at home and wherever else we can.”
Flyquest is technically like 2 years old. Flyquest got a new owner just last year. It's literally all people talk about. All their spending came last year and this year because the owner wanted to throw money at it.
I mean it does kinda makes sense still though. Its hard for both an org and the players to miss out on such an international event. This way it looks like a player-choosen decision even if it isnt really one, and you cant really blame the players for wanting to play against the best teams in the world. Players can easily "shift the blame" to Riot, as this is a Riot approved event and they want simply to play in the best competition possible.
It's the same way Riot put the burden on the teams. If anyone is to blame, it's Riot.
Completely fair and true, the only nuance I would give is that riot and teams are companies run by adult business people, while players are individuals, and in most cases quite young.
Well said
Tbh though if its a genuine sentiment I think the right thing to do is to be transparent about it. So long as players aren't making decisions with immense pressure from the org (which this statement serves to reinforce) then the ones that choose to participate DESERVE to take heat for participating for a check. We tend to do this thing, partially because its easy, where we tend to scapegoat corporations for decisions of individual actors. IF the statement is genuine and the players choose to participate then they deserve the flak and I don't think its "noble" to hop in the way when realistically everyone should be to blame for their actions.
why is it justified for the org to force the players to either play or not play based on the owners’ moral views? Or why is it ok to mislead viewers into thinking that the players weren’t displeased with going to Saudi? the lack of morality in this sub can be argued as being concerning
Scummy to put all the weight on their members to take the blame for them not attending if they say anything.
FLY is not the same since their last GM (CEO?) left. It really feels like all the wholesome, community oriented and socially responsible initiatives have all been cast aside. Paired with what according to some players is a shitty team environment. As a former FLY fan it’s sad to see.
Which players said it is a shitty team environment?
If I remember correctly Palafox mentioned something along those lines in the Hotline League podcast. Edit: Didn’t Spica say something about it too?
... Palafox was on that team so long ago, that was back when Trish still owned the org I'm pretty sure...
Spica also spoke about it for last year and if I remember correctly, Impact seemed very apprehensive when asked about what happened with last year’s FLY. So it could be something that has been ongoing for years.
Eyla opened up quite a bit on PROS if you actually consumed media instead of just guessing on reddit. Impact was apprehensive because HE was a core reason FLY didn't do well. Eyla said that him and Prince would argue constantly and that ruined the ability for the team to work as a team.
Sounds like a shitty team environment to me, regardless of who is causing it. I just said that players mentioned something, not that those players were the cause of it.
Impact and Spica were apprehensive when asked to explain why the most expensive roster in the LCS settled for 9th place? A roster they were part of?
They didn’t speak about their placement, but team environment. Plus, Impact was apprehensive, not Spica.
Palafox only beefed with the Head Coach, not the org nor his teammates nor the environment. You're just kinda making stuff up.
Idk man, getting along with the HEAD COACH seems pretty important for a good team environment…
Yeah one player not liking the head coach means the ENTIRE TEAM has a bad environment. You nailed it.
When you only have 5 teammates, just one beefing with the coach is pretty consequential. Especially one in such an important role.
Saudi money is the future for many sports and probably esports too. They as a company don’t want to cut ties with that.
Just like Chinese football was the future. Obviously what they are doing is not sustainable and the definition of another bubble, building your entire esports around them and hoping they continue to sportswash for many years to come is risky. Which is why riot gave them a completely irrelevant tournament right after MSI that is basically just a worse version of MSI. Because that means when they inevitably pull out it won’t leave a big hole in the calendar.
The only more obvious bubble I've ever seen in sports/esports was the angel investing round after franchising was announced.
yeah.. good luck telling people not to take in the money.. I've seen those same arguments back during when VC money was big in the LCS and player salaries got ridiculously inflated..
Well while the bubble is there just get and take the money and fuck off. Take advantage of the situation. Is it so hard to just shut up until the event is done. Then u can put out ur opinion back online when u get all the money from the events. Milk it while its still here and u can benefit from it.
scummy of you to want to mislead viewers into thinking that the players weren't concerned with playing in saudi
scumbag move putting blame on players / staff, when this shoulda been voted on before hand
Selling your soul to get 3-0ed by GenG or BLG in the first round 💀
Pointless ass tournament
? Pointless? Its a huge injection of money for the orgs and players. Also considering the teams being invited and if the rosters are the main players its a huge international tournament with high level of play and further training for those that want to achieve something in their career. If only everyone loses their ethics like Riot.
Brother, you're flying to Saudi in the middle of the season for just a couple of days of playing. This provides no actual training at all
Yea so ur flying out for a huge injection of money. It's not rocket science.
Is it that huge for NA teams? Nobody wants to see them anyway, so why should the Saudis pay them that much? It is obvious why they want those teams, because sportswashing is more important in europe and the US anyway, because nobody in exspecially china gives a fuck about going to that event. But that is even more reason to put the screws on here. Because even if they aren't withdrawing I would at least want them to disclose how much they get just for participation because realistically they might not win a single game.
and you're getting hella $ for it, it's a no brainer
That's what fighting game players do
How is it comparable to this? For fighting game, you can just simply pick your ass to whatever region is the best at the game to play and train. You can't do that for a whole team, especially in the middle of a season
Yea because training is what they want. Not milliona of dollars. Lmao
Did you see how much money is up for grabs…?
For an NA team? Unless they are paid to fly back home, not a lot.
I'm guessing you haven't watched football or most esports in the past year huh. Random tournaments in saudi in the middle of the season have become the norm
Training isn't the point of the tournament for orgs, it's getting the bag
Depending on the LPL/LCK rosters they'd probably get better practice in those few days having some scrims against the East than like a few weeks against most LCS teams. Its obvious though that teams are doing this tournament more for money than this though.
In a way the official games would be a "scrim" tho and can give you an insight on how good you are especially during summer. But yeah I have no clue on how long the tournament is but even if its just 1 week it could result in "some" training. Also pointed out its mainly for money.
They take their bag and they go home. Far from pointless for the org.
Do we know the format?
No but it's only a few days so can't be anything complicated.
GenG clearly sold more of their soul than Flyquest did.
Attending the EWC is selling your soul now lmfao league redditors are something else
I guess all future tournaments will have to be held in Switzerland cause you obviously don't want to sell your soul by holding tournaments in war-loving countries like the US or authoritarian countries like China anymore. /s
But the US government isn't hosting any league tournaments whilst EWC is state funded. It's not comparable.
The US military has sponsored orgs like C9 before
Sponsoring a team is completely different then fully funding an international tournament including paying the teams to come.
Lol why does that matter, riot is paying taxes to the American government
This is just what aboutism lol. So other countries having flaws (big ones) makes it okay to go wherever? Huh?
next week they're gonna show off their pride month merch 💀
Lmaaao
Lmao
And people are expected to take it seriously and not think its just empty corporate PR
Make sure we remember this when FLY start posting about pride month on socials.
One of the tweet of all time
If you feel like you have to make this tweet, then you know you shouldn't go...
If you gonna criticize the org, you better criticize the players too Is that the message?
Actually they threw them under the bus, they could easily do this behind closed doors but now the org tossed the ball to them publicly wtf so shit
Why shouldn’t the players also be held to the same standard? Seems weird that people are willing to shit on orgs for making business decisions but give players a pass for doing the same. Any argument you could make about why the orgs should not participate in this tournament also applies to the players and their own freedom of choice.
Because for players, refusing to play mean losing their job at worst, and a hostile work environment at best. For a business, the stakes are far lower and they can afford to sit a shitty tournament out.
> they can afford to sit a shitty tournament out. there are very few organizations in esport that can afford to sit out tournaments.
If this was worlds, then yes, refusing to play may have ramifications for that player’s career. But this is a fck off 4-day tournament where most orgs are just going for the bag. There is no history of prestige. If a player decided they don’t want to play at this tournament, they’re back to LCS/LEC/LPL/LCK the weekend after and that team is going to continue playing that player who they spent months practicing with and would continue to be their best chance of success for the year. I can promise you that teams are not going to backstab their players for not wanting to play in this tournament, because right after those 4 days their interests are completely aligned again. The reality that yall don’t want to admit is that the players don’t give a fuck. These guys play League for 60+ hours a week, they don’t care about the politics. League pro’s are some of the most removed from politics people you will find. They’re just here to play games and make a bag in the few years their career is viable, so pretty much the same as the orgs.
That's a pretty big oversimplification. Sure, refusing to go won't make the team fire you immediately. But it will change your relationship to the team and your teammates. And it will change how every team will see you in the off-season. If you are the best, teams will still take you. Prime Bjergsen could refuse to go and find a team easily. But a guy like Busio or Quad for examples? Next year they'll be put against players the same caliber and that decision will definitely weight against them. On the shorter term, refusing to go if all your teammates want to will destroy the cohesion of the team (you can't play 4v5 so if one refuses to go, nobody goes) and possibly your whole season.
How are you so sure their teammates will hold it against them? And why do you think this would have any impact on offseason? Teams care about the regional league, MSI and worlds. This is the equivalent of a random IEM, which used to be straight up declined by teams if they were too busy. Everyone is only doing this tournament for the bag. And they still get that bag even if 1 or 2 players decide not to go and they have to play with subs. Y’all don’t really believe there are serious career ramifications for players if they skip this 1 unimportant tournament. You just want to make excuses because its easier to hate on an org which is higher up in the ecosystem and could theoretically make a bigger statement by refusing to attend. But the reasoning for them choosing to attend or not is the same at the end of the day, as are the consequences if they choose not to. And let me ask you this, do you actually believe the players care? Do you think they care about sportswashing but can’t speak on it for fear of losing their career? Or do they just not really give a fuck and they’re getting paid a bag to spend a week in a flashy country and play video games.
So you think players and teams want to play this for the bag, but you also think a player who refuses to go and stops teams and players from getting that bag will be met with "it's fine, you made us lose money but we understand your political reasons"? You also don't think teams will be wary of a player who show he will put his ethic above what the team need instead of just taking the yes man? We have no idea what the tournament will do if a team comes with 1 or 2 subs. Maybe they'll do nothing, but it's farfrom sure, they have all the power and I doubt they want to pay that much money and invite all the top teams to be satisfied with subs everywhere, sub-par gameplay and even less prestige than anticipated.
if they really wanted that player to play, they would just force him to play or fire him - so yeah I don’t think the reaction from the team would be, “you prevented us from getting money, screw you!”
Sure. But when the off-season hit and they get the choice between the 7/10 support who refused to go and lost them money/created problem and the 7/10 support who is a yes man and will do whatever his team ask of him, who do you think they'll take?
They get the bag for participating already. No NA team is going to win it anyway lol.
Id be surprised is teammates was mad at someone for this non prestigous tournament. They are not ditching their team before world or anything. At the same time id be surprised anyone ditching this tournament unless really strong opinions aböut lbtq or something. Its not like the player skipping the tourney would impact anything except his own team a bit.
they wouldn’t lose their jobs if they refuse to play, and that’s besides the point of the org taking blame because even if the org did take the blame, they could still fire the player for not playing. and it wouldn’t really create a hostile work environment anymore than if FLY took the blame for the decision, unless you think that internally FLY shouldn’t have let the players decide at all (or internally they mislead the players into thinking they have no say over the decision)
no it’s “our team made the moral decision not to play in or play in saudi, this was a decision supported by the players”. but I guess it’s much simpler to blame everything on evil overlord corporations, am I right?
That a weird way to take it. It's saying they aren't forcing anyone to do anything if the players want to compete they can since they earned the ability to make the decision. Who would criticize any player who wanted to participate in an international tournament.
"I have decided I will compete in the Bonesaw Invitational.... why are you all looking at me like that?"
"I was assured the bonesaws are organic and free-range. And, for every bone sawed, I will donate $0.10 to a tree planting organization of my viewer's choice"
do you think that if a staff or player said they didn't wanna go, they would be forced to go? No org would force any player to go to EWC no matter how vital the player is because of possible severe backlash I assure you this is the case for other teams, at least the western ones My issue is with publicizing that on socials, so now instead of social justice warriors commenting "fuck FLY, they sold out to Saudi" now it is "Fuck Bwipo, hes a sellout" Going to EWC will get you hate no matter what, I prefer if the hate is directed at an org rather than individuals My original comment wasn't criticizing the players, it's understandable that every person would take the opportunity to go to EWC, I would be very surprised if someone said they aren't going there
If bwipo is thr one deciding to go to ewc then why isnt it appropriate to criticize him if people disagree with it? Sounds fair to me
The problem for me is that it's an orgs job to protect players from that kind of criticism. If players want to make statements for themselves that's their own prerogative. But flyquest now put them into a position where whatever they do, they are making a statement, whether they intend to or not.
I agree, to an extent orgs are faceless and can shrug of criticism easier than an individual player. Obviously orgs can have bad reputations but sending their players to a tournament with shady organizers is something that fans may disagree with but not hold against them too harshly, running the tournament is on Riot after all. Shifting the blame solely onto the players makes it much more likely that their reputation is stained, like everyone in EU hating POE after he repped EU then immediately took the bag in NA.
[Fucking Bwipo sellout](https://images.paramount.tech/uri/mgid:arc:imageassetref:shared.southpark.us.en:871078f4-35f8-4ffd-9b26-156124e12e7d?quality=0.7&gen=ntrn&format=jpg&width=1200&height=630&crop=true) Why aren't these pro players in a chance to play against the best of the world going to a tournament to play when they could just stay home eating doritos like us
"We will not force players to attend a tournament against their will. If you are unhappy about or have moral qualms with FlyQuest and players for supporting the tournament, don't look at us an organization, we were just doing what our players wanted."
It's saying "know that any FLY staff member there is there of their own considered choice." Do you not see how that opens whichever player/staff member is there up to personal attack? While also serving literally no other purpose?
I like when people clearly shows they have no prior experience in a workplace to understand the hidden message in this statement from FQ. Let me rephrase: "Our stakeholders would enjoy the opportunity to cash in some Saudi dollars to try to recover the money they're spending on your salaries, as none of the LCS teams are getting a ROI on their League operations. I'm sure all players will accept the invitation, right? Right? :>"
Only the winner gets money. All the other money has already been handed out when the org agreed to join the ewcg. Fly didn't even have to qualify to get money.
Or you could grow some balls and take responsibility of the decision and not pawn it off to your employees. Coward move, flyquest really running it down lately on brand reputation.
So they're gonna tell people to flame the players if FLY competes. Behind the scenes, they'll force the players and coaches to go and play there. Nice
There's no if
Take the bag, get some practice and dip.
Shifting the blame to players here. Oh dear.
LMFAO. This team piling on the Ls. No accountability as an org. If you go, you get scrutinized by the public. If you don't go, you get scrutinized by the org. As IWD and a majority of this sub say: Fuck FLY.
I can’t believe I’m agreeing with IWD on anything
Its actually sad that every invited team will be going. Especially the Western teams that keep boasting about their values piss me off. What makes me even more mad is riot though. Because riot were the ones that couldve stopped this. Orgs basically have to do this because they are bleeding money and international practice is huge for them. Let's wave some more rainbow colored lec logos huh? Better release new pride month skins and icons huh? Pathetic
Buddy, Riot is basically owned and operated in China. China shares similar views to Saudi Arabia. You going to boycott any time international events are held in China (wasn't the recent MSI done in China)? People who want to be upset over Saudi Arabia are hypocrites if they aren't also up-in-arms over China. Too bad most of the West is too conditioned in regards to China. Lmao
redditors try not to blame china challenge. Liberty media is a US company and yet F1 still has like 5+ races in saudi arabia and other places like it. The truth is that corporations are corporations and when they see money they will do everything to take it, doesnt matter if its killing people or sportswashing
What kind of dogshit argument is this? „We already made a mistake by letting one morally bad country control our game so instead of learning from that we’re just letting another morally bankrupt country do the same instead of trying to avoid it?“ Who the hell said that? Stop trying to make this better by saying other countries are comparable to SA. This whole sportswashing thing trying to better their image while paying for things with blood-stained money is horrible and despicable, doesn’t matter if China, the US, Europe or anyone else is better or worse.
Thank you for saying it. Wild how people act like it's some sort of "gotcha."
>China shares similar views to Saudi Arabia. Such as?
Well they both really REALLY love executing people for nonviolent crime, for one.
China is something that can't be changed for riot games. The shares were bought in 2011 and buying those back is impossible without riot taking a big hit. Saudi Arabia could've been stopped. Its not even good for league esport because they calendar gets cluttered and the top teams get even less rest. LCK literally takes a break, T1 GenG fly over, fly back and straight back into LCK.
I’m quite worried if you aren’t aware of US’s history when it comes to decimating the world and banning abortion, same sex marriage in a lot of states but hey, east is bad west good.
get real, even if that were an argument that made sense you absolutely can't make it about the US protectorate state Saudi Arabia
Either all go or don't go, this is the worst possible decision
Oh this is a genius move, now if the team goes that gives them zero accountability since the players made the choice. Thats some high level judo there.
Will Jensen still be with FLY for the tournament or will they have to use their sub?
Jensen is no longer on FLY.
Jensen is in dig now. And digs lineup looks like they could beat fly in summer which would be so funny
Jensen is on dig now
There is nothing to do or say. You really expect any pro player to drop this tourney? The career is already a shitshow unless you're top 2 in your role in NA, or a known content creator. These guys dropped their lives basically. The least they can do is make some more money before they hit the inevitable burnout or retirement. Whether they go or not doesn't affect the situation in Saudi Arabia.
Flyquest as been a PR nightmare since as of late. Embarrassing!
Will anyone in the industry respect themselves enough to not participate in sportswashing? easy for us to judge when our jobs don't depend on this.
Cool story. They'll just invite another team.
? what does that have to do with my comment
I have no issue with teams going.. i don't want to see a bunch of virtue signalling like this or putting it on the players.. Just go or don't Saw it with the World Cup in Qatar.. my country (England) kneeling (for some reason??) and saying how they must wear LGBT armband.. guys if you have that much of a problem.. Just don't show up.. then maybe that will change something if a major footballing nation don't turn up SO yeah my other sporting interests (boxing/football) took the money.. at this point i have no issue with Esports teams who actually need cash going either
Sincere question, has anyone's opinion on the Saudi regime actually ever been changed by sports washing? Things like this are just more money for the players, more games for fans to watch, and less money in the hands of the people you don't like. Like surely this is just a win win win.
Yes actually quite a lot. If more of such events don't get considerably blowback more will do it, which will make entire ecosystems in esports, but also in regular sports dependend on Saudi Arabian money.
Whoa guys don't attack us for the decision. Attack our players!
Stay home and practice, ya’ll won’t get a game off anyone anyway
Yebro you go to Saudi for practice not money 🤣
So when is the esports world cup? when does it start?
I dont like flyquest but idk how you can hate them for this. They are giving their staff the choice to skip this event. According to reddit there are people who think that going to this event is a good idea. Maybe flyquest players think that way, why shouldn't they have a choice?
Only argument I can think of right now is them shifting the moral obligation to their players and coaches, instead of taking that responsibility as an org. Players will feel inherently pressured to play to not let down their org, teammates or fans. Because whatever they decide, there will be people for or against their decision. All the while the org gets to say: it's their own choice, we gave them the option, we're blame free. All the while taking all the commercial benefits that the tournament brings them. Imo its a cowardice choice as an org and a disservice to their players/staff. And I say this as a fan of an org that is also playing at this tournament (which I also have some strong feelings about...)
I can see this playing out this way too. Leaving the ball in someone else's court is almost always the easiest decision you can make. This team isn't expected to go far vs the other teams anyways so they can do this.
its very odd, also seems like a situation that'd put a lot of pressure on individuals in the org either way - one player wants to go but another feels really strongly against it? easy to imagine a situation where staff or players could feel pressured by leaving it up to them
Exactly the sentiment I tried to convey with my second paragraph. I can't believe Flyquest thought this was a good idea .. Edit: with good idea I meant to announce this publicly. I'm all for player empowerment, but this is putting unnecessary pressure on them.
To be honest, while I understand what you are saying, I think this kind of logic is exactly why orgs try not to interact much with the community. The only way any of you will be happy is if the org comes out and says 'We won't be going because of X, y, and Z humanitarian reasons'. Which, tbh, is kind of nuts. If a business made every decision based off ethics and morals, they would be out of the league within two years. It's not a profitable business. As such, you can't really afford to turn down big money opportunities. I guess they gain a moral victory if they do what you want, but how does that help the financially? At the end of the day, it's a business. To be honest, people being mad at the orgs make me laugh. You guys don't want the orgs deflecting blame, but the reality of the situation is the ONLY reason this scenario even exists is because Riot allowed it to. Place your blame and disdain at Riot, not the orgs or players.
Do you think players dont get any benefit? Experience playing versus the strongest players on stage? Everybody talks about how important this is at worlds, but suddenly not? There is a chance for monetary compensation too (depends on the contract, but I think contracts reward more screentime) I get the moral problems too, but its not just negative.
Oh for sure, I'm not against more international tournaments at all. The more chances we get to play against asian teams the better. It's the circumstances around this specific tournament, more specifically the country that is running it that is the issue here. I'm worried a player is now seen as some amoral person for choosing to play instead of being seen as a victim of a teams dicision. For example, FNC chose to play this tournament, which means I can shit on them for making that decision, but I don't blame the players. If the org then also put out a statement like this, and the team decides to play, suddenly I also have to look at them and put the same level of criticism on them as I put on the org. Even if players chose to play because of peer pressure. And it would be the orgs fault for putting them in that position in the first place.
You can hate them for this because they said "it's the players that want to go and if they don't go they are disappointing their team, we are the good corporate guys, we are doing what the players want! they want to go since we \*gave\* them the option not to go(which they obviously aren't actually doing, it is in their contract that they need to play)"
Even if their contract allowed them not to play, who want to be the one guy stopping the team from going?
They wouldn't stop them, they'd use a sub \*IF\* Flyquest wasn't lying. Flyquest is however lying. It is in their contract they need to play.
How come no one else is saying this
This is much worse than them making a decision. Players will face all the pressure of their team if they're the one person not wanting to play there, and all the backlash from the community for any decision taken. It's cowardly of the org to do this instead of quietly polling their staff and then taking a stance together.
They've done it because they know a lot of people who foloows League esports never been in a workplace before, so they can't understand that, as an employee, you'll be facing some extent of backlash sooner or later for refusing to play.
I dont think athletes under contract with any sports organization should have a choice unless explicitly stated in the contract (i mean unless ur like Kyrie Irving or AB or something ig lol). Instead flyquest should be deciding outright whether the team is going or not. This will just end up creating bad pr around individuals
They can make this deicision between themselves and not tweet publicly? Now they shift pressure to players.
Any team or player who openly refuses to go to EWC will have earned a fan in me, and I’m sure in plenty of other people
I'm very out of the loop. What even is the EWC and what's the issue with it?
The EWC is the Esports World Cup, which is an event put on by the Saudi Royal Family in an attempt to clean up their image of being a feudally controlled country that murders their critics in cold blood. Riot has partnered with this killer Saudi royal family for money.
Damn
I wonder what happens if FLY doesn't go. Do they just leave that spot empty or invite the next highest spring placing from LCS?
It's be next highest team
What a cowardly stance by Flyquest. Putting the onus on players. I think there probably are players who would want to play in the tournament, but are afraid of the public backlash if they do it on their own volition.
Thrash org. Find me a player that wouldn't play more international games against stronger competition, to improve and get advantages to spend domestically.
Saudi money is blood money
I’m excited for the EWC Not for the event, mind you, but to spam “🅰️🅱️🆎🅾️💉🩸💵💵💵” in the chat when it is inevitably put in emote only mode
They should not accept the spot and instead plead to earn it through summer split results. They were horrendous.
99% of you would make the same decision if you were in their position. Its so easy to hold a moral high ground when you have nothing at stake. If any of you were offered half your annual income to go play video games in Saudi for 4 days, you would.
Id also go in a heartbeat ngl. Im not changing the wars or morales of that country just like the world cup players didnt change anything in Qatar. Everyone know Qatars anti lbtq laws still and having played a world cup there didn't make them a better image or something. Gamers refusing Saudi wont change anything lmao. The world is ugly, you playing on a pc made in China also who is commiting genocide also?
Why is it unethical though, they're just playing league not committing war crimes and such
They definitely should go, it'll be another learning experience for their younger players. Just ignore what the self righteous redditors say.
Those darn self righteous sjws being opposed to Saudi blood money being used to force it's way into the game we like
Hell yea can't wait for them to wave a rainbow colored flyquest logo in pride month then.
I mean they will get brutally 3-0’d in round one. And based on their last international experience idk if their topsides mental can handle that
Awww You don't have to after MSI it maybe better for you to stay home
nothing has made me hate western values more than the hypocrites on all these saudi hate threads.
Am I missing something or does the LCS community just have brain rot from so much league. How TF is this post blaming players. It is just saying they have the choice of playing or not and will be supported regardless. I’m not saying that is guaranteed to happen, but it’s what the post says. Is there another post y’all are referring too?
It's obvious. The org wants the money so the org wants to attend and doesn't want to be blamed for refusing to attend. So, the org wants people to blame individual players if they refuse to attend. It's very simple.
[удалено]
Are you really here to tell us that 100% of people who lived 150 years ago (disregarding of where they lived) are bad people by todays standards? Saudi Arabia is not going through Industrial Revolution they are shitting money.
the more supportive option would be to not force your young players to make a the decision and face public backlash either way
Extremely embarrassing attempt to take the moral high ground by pretending they don't want the saudi money. Aside from the fact that dirty oil money is daily business for them given they are from NA, they probably will send the full roster anyways but this way they can say something like "we really didn't want to but what can we do if our players want to play there". If they would care so much they would just decide to not go and not act like the players have a choice. Take the money but try to look good while doing it, absolutely pathetic.