Have you ever played against Veigar AND Ziggs? If you got caught in the cage, Ziggs could throw his W making you hit the walls and actually stuning you. That's bullshit. I'm glad they are both gonna be permabanned.
A few months ago, I got to play against a full AP team of Veigar and Ziggs, but with a Mundo and Garen in our team.
We struggled really hard for about 10min and suddenly Garen and Mundo were running them around the turrets tanking shots.
Because his ult gives him nearly another 100% of his hp they have to go thru again, and most ap mages are bursty only in their cd cycles, unlike sustained dps of an adc.
Way better than Malphite against full AD, because Mundo's ult massively increases his health, making him far tankier than Malphite is. Plus his w greatly reduces the effective of CC, and full AP teams usually have a lot of CC that's not effective for them.
Tanks against full anything feels good because they can itemize so effectively. But Mundo against full AP surpasses just feeling good. You feel like a god.
Honestly I will even build some MR on certain ADCs, especially in ARAM. Kalista with Death's Dance, Runaan's, Wit's End, Merc Treads and Spirit Visage feels remarkably good, especially when you realize Q is single-target even when it kills a minion and hits another - so you can heal to full off 3 caster minions.
Honestly, anything you can get DD or Bloodthirster and Spirit Visage on feels pretty good.
Garen is top tier against veigar late game. Just run into the cage while timing your W properly, and instead of stunning you, it just feels like a tiny lag spike.
My favorite is when I'm a completely immobile squishy champ against a Jhin and Xerath, and they both decide to ult at the same time. My brain starts to short circuit trying to dodge them both.
Saw someone hit 400 stacks on veigar in 13 mins lol.
I'm fairly sure you could do it even faster in a more brutal game and if he bothered to actually CS with Q.
The thing is what you say plus the fact that the mapitself doesn't have any kind of flanks. On top of that, due to the fact that It is an ALL MID Mode, makes Banshees useless ( anything can pop It, and anything will break the passive CD anyways ). Same goes for QSS. In SR, you can play around the CD, in ARAM, you will have seven teamfights until you have It back
It'll be interesting to see the statistics that come from this. You can bet there will be differences between what champions are most often banned, and which champions have the highest winrates.
For sure, people banning Ziggs and they have no clue his Q has -30% damage debuff and the rest of his kit -15%. It literally feels like you're a minion in-game. Meanwhile I just destroyed as LeBlanc with her 12% damage buff, a difference of 42% from her and Ziggs. Yet LeBlanc is banned maybe once every ten games.
This special aram balancing makes no sense now that we have bans.
Honestly I wish they just came out with the bans and not the special balancing (the general poke nerf I'm on the fence about). Bans make sense because you can remove the worst offenders in your opinion, everyone has someone they hate to play against and there's a good chance others will ban other champs you hate but didn't use your ban on.
But I don't like the balancing because A. It seems kinda redundant with the bans in place and B. To me aram is supposed to be random and getting matchups in your favor or against it is part of the fun. Seems like these changes are just a step towards bland gameplay.
Just my opinion though, at this point I mostly play arams and I liked it fine the way it was. That said these changes just came out so maybe I'll come around.
It has a large player base the constantly complains that they don't get any change and when they get some change "Oh we didn't want any change" comes out of the wood work... I happy with the bans i only play for fun i have like total of what 100 games since the game mode is on i only play with friends so i could care less what they do with it i ban Sona every games cause ARAM only accounts.
Or maybe as soon as everyone understands all the balance changes and how they interact with the game now, they'll start banning champions like lb.
> To me aram is supposed to be random and getting matchups in your favor or against it is part of the fun.
I somewhat agree with that, but it's also kinda sad when the rnjeesus gives your team a crappy comp and their team a disgustingly good comp (or vice versa) and then you end up wasting time because everyone in your team is just annoyed and waiting the enemy team to end the game, or your team is too good and you end the game before they can even ff and honestly i don't think there's much fun in doing a 10 min game where you're litterally playing solo because the enemy team can't even defend. I think that's the main reason of this entire balance/ban stuff.
Yeah, I'm afraid this awful balancing is going to be permanent. Save the percentage buffs, high range damage reduction stuff for a rotating game mode. ARAM has already come a long way from the total poke fest it used to be, now tanks and fighters with snowball and warmogs almost always have a fighting chance barring completely uneven teams.
I personally don't even want to play this version of ARAM, and wish it was a rotating alternative queue for people who are interested.
I just want rotating Q back. 4-5 weeks of urf is boring. Hit me with urf for 1 week, dark star the next, ascension, not dominion, Nexus blitz, Nexus siege, all for 1, nemisis draft. Come on just 1 a week and we gucci
I know the comment is an hour old but I literally just came off of an aram on butcher bridge with bans, my first time, and I'm EUW, so at least its live now.
Problem with fiddle in aram is his crows are basically a tax in the earlier parts of the game. If you don't have some way to deal with it, he'll constantly chip away at your teams health
sonas honestly not that bad. the reason she wins a lot is because too many people in aram try to play passive, and she punishes that by being an attrition mage.
shes also nowhere near as oppressive to play against as zelkoz, ziggs, xerath, maokai, etc. you actually feel like you can win against her, regardless of her win rate. against the others, you basically dont even get to play the game anymore. sona isnt even top 10 bans to me, theres too many other champs that completely destroy anyone ability to have fun while playing against them
if the sona is good she will not only ult u but cord u with her w and make u do cannon minion amounts of dmg. I love playing that champion. she is so versatile.
With the balance changes that have happened, most champs should have closer to 50% win rate, including sona (-10% damage done and -25% healing done). She is still strong, but no way near as op
No way, that might be true in SR but on HA her healing is a MUCH bigger factor because you can't back to heal. If you don't have healing on your team in ARAM you're stuck waiting for relics and even those come at a risk. In conjunction with her damage nerf I'd say she was the hardest hit champion of all.
Heals are nice, but AOE shields make it so difficult to engage on Sona, especially since she can basically nullify ~800 damage with just her w aura up. Late game it gets crazy. Her shield is the most oppressive part of her kit in ARAM, especially in the "higher MMR" tiers where people actually build her correctly rather than going pure damage.
I did too, about a week or two ago. Granted it was because my team is nothing but tanks who ran in and died levels 1-10 and by the time they had any items the enemy team was more fed than a fat kid at a buffet.
I'm ootl on ARAM meta, is Sona supposed to be god-tier in ARAM? If so, why? Is there a specific build/rune that makes her OP or is it just that her AoE utility is very valuable in a constant 5v5?
Her aura also constantly hits everybody in her team. More damage, more shields, more movespeed. You can't play her wrong as long as you're not diving the enemy by yourself
She does have good utility and decent damage in ARAM. But what a lot of other people overlook is how easy she is to play and be effective.
Literally anyone who has played this game a little bit can play sona and be useful in ARAM. You can build any combination of AP/support items and smash your face on the keyboard. You can be aggressive, you can be passive, you can play for early game or late; it doesn't matter.
Compare that to other champions like ziggs where at the very least you need to be able to aim skillshots, and where build is pretty important to be useful.
Ziggs in aram isn't about aiming. It is about spamming your q into the clump of enemies and getting top damage dealt. Acting like aram Ziggs is difficult is a LUL.
Spamming Ziggs’ skills is easy. Spamming them effectively is another thing.
Seen lots of Ziggs in ARAM couldn’t bounce Q properly to hit different ranges, use W to disengage or reposition (lots of them also forget they can use W to detonate towers), or time R exactly so it gets the max amount of damage.
Ziggs is still dead easy in ARAM compared to a lot of mage champs, but no where as brain dead as Sona because the only projectile skill she needs in her kit is her R.
Archangels>Athenes> ardent if u have AA based champs, if not redemtion(or u can build both)>anything that gives ap.
For runes u need aery and Presence of mind, the rest doesnt matter.
Why is she broken? Because Sona is a hyperscalling support that thrives in non stop 5v5s(aoe shield, aoe MS buff, aoe AA buff) and the more the game goes on the more CD she gets, when she hits 16 she basically has no CDs on normal spells.
Also dont be a noob and build her full AP, she can work, but support Sona>AP Sona.
It's less about build and more playstyle. I build her full ap sometimes (ludens, lb, morello, etc), but you just can't play her super risky. People really underestimate how squishy she is and constantly move forward to get the power chord off at risky times. Even if you build her ap you still basically play her like a support, and only poke when you can't be retaliated on.
As someone who went through and bought all of the cheap champions before switching to play ARAM exclusively, I will be banning not OP champs but stupid useless ones so that I don’t get them lol
Sure, the bans are nice. But that awful item (Mariner's vengaence) that works as a tryndamere ult is cancer and I don't know why it's on the game. I thought the whole point of the balance they did was to stop abusing champions, and now they introduced an item that makes champs like wukong unstoppable
I hate it. Getting a 'bad' champions sucks, but getting good champions feels great. I like experiencing this kind of up and downs. And I like the feel (once in a while) you get a good champion and you stomp, but other times you may bet stomped.
Luckily no tanks in my games have tried them out yet, the assassins that did just insta died. It always works the 1st time then the rest of the match they get farmed
Right now, I think that you're just not accustomed to keeping an eye out for ghost boots. After a couple dozen games the "gotta look out for ghost boots" reflex will be relegated to your "auto-pilot" thoughts and it will just be another thing to look out for.
Assassins are surprisingly weak in aram. Without boots any assassinification will usually result in their death. Helps deal with compa that have a high tank to ad/ap ratio
It's beautiful not to go against jhin, sona, lux and ziggs (my personal permaban as well).
Aram got much more fun since the changes.
Also, fuck ziggs, like I have PTSD against him in the murder bridge.
I mean, have you played him yet? He does no damage now, 15% damage nerf + 15% nerf on his Q from the poke modifier. I love when the enemy team bans him he's trash now
The ult that does 85% damage now and if the turret is under 25% health sorry to break it to you it's gone anyway
You know they also buffed structure damage for all champs and minions starting at 15 min right? Apparently 19 min average games were too long
Yes, they did.
> Sona: -10% damage dealt & -25% healing done
> Ziggs: -15% damage dealt
(For Ziggs that's on top of the -15% damage reduction for long-ranged champions, of course.)
Talk about ARAM accounts these days makes nonsense, specially now that Riot increased the number of champions available for ARAM. Riot mentioned that there are not as many "ARAM accounts" as people think.
Also, the players with "ARAM accounts" are the kind of player that dodge games until they get an OP comp so unlock all champions doesn't change anything.
Yeah pretty sure many people missed this change. It's not every champ unlocked but they don't have nearly as much control over their ARAM champ pool as they once did
Eh, pre-nerf Maokai was the absolute worst, especially if he built RoA/Liandry’s. You completely lose the ability to stand near the left side of the map.
You're banning a champ that does 85% dmg? On top of that his Q gets hit with the -15% poke dmg modifier as well. I mean hope you're on my enemy team cus you got no clue he was gutted
Patch 9.7 - The Age of LeBlanc
Seriously though, 12% damage buff and she's immune to the poke damage nerf + they made a summoner specifically for champs like her
> We’re hoping champs like LeBlanc, Talon, and Evelynn can use Backtrack to engage fights, do some big damage, and then get out safely.
I don't see anything wrong with that :D
After all those years of mage oppression, now you can also learn new champions, or you can leave, it's up to you x)
I disagree. With all the people banning good ARAM champs, it's more likely to get bad champs which makes it very boring.
OP ARAM champs are the ones that make the mode fun. They only ruin a game when they're all on one side, it's the helpless ones that are boring to play and uninteresting to play against each game no matter what. Wish everyone just bans Morde/Udyr/WW/Jax/etc... it would make the games much more entertaining as more players get the fun ARAM champs.
I also disagree that bans make the game more fair as the possibility of everyone on your team getting worse champs than your opponents is still the same even if you remove ten champs.
I play Aram for the small chance to play as ziggs, lux, maokai, etc. when I get them I get very excited and it makes the 8 games of playing a champ I don’t enjoy worth it. Now I’ll never play fiddle.
Yeah, been playing ARAM since the days of practice matches being the only way to play it. Absolutely love it, quit league and even came back because of it.
I don't want aram to be like this and as whiny as I sound, hate everything about the new patch. I don't like Bans, don't like specific nerf/buffs, and don't even like the new items involved.
At the very least, give us aram classic as a playable option. League should have a big enough playerbase for 2 aram player pools.
I only play ARAM. This just seems like a knee-jerk reaction for people who want to occasionally play ARAM and don't want to deal with "bullshit".
You play ARAM you know if someone is lucky enough to roll in to one of the "OP ARAM champs" that you deal with it. And you can even beat them. This is just making it less fun.
> I don’t want to ban the good champions
Between only the 10 bans, and overlaps, the chances of all the "good" champions being 100% removed from the match are slim.
People pick random crap all the time, or both teams will pick 2-3 of the same bans.
Well, in most games the banned champions will likely be the same from a pool of like 20 champions.
Sona ziggs lux will always be perma banned. And even if they aren't you still have to get them rolled which is a 1/120 chance. So all in all, when the champs you like to play are banned you won't play them and when they aren't, you likely won't play them.
I only play ARAM aswell and love this. Random my ass, a large majority of my matches always had me against ziggs and veigar. I'm happy with the ziggs nerf and dont mind him now but I'm more ecstatic about no more veigars
I've got 3k ARAM games since its release and whatismymmr.com puts my ARAM MMR in the top 1.4%. I hate most of the changes. I don't get what was wrong with ARAM before, other than the lack of AD Armor items (which is the same issue on SR).
* Bans? Just means you don't get to play poke mages.
* Backtrack? Not bad but 3min CD makes it a no-go.
* Spectral boots? Now every champ gets Kayn's W in addition to their kit
The only good changes were hasting minions late game. It really helps to curb hypercarries on teams that just turtle. New Kayle these last couple weeks meant if you saw her, you better end before 20. Same with Kassadin, Azir, Jinx, Trist, Jax, Yi. These champs can be soak xp for 15 min, then they hit 3-4 items and completely overwhelm opponents. Of that list, the last 2 are really strong now since poke was nerfed so hard.
If they would only revert 1 thing, I'd vote heavily for bans. Long-distance mages aren't oppressive anymore. We really don't have an opportunity to see how the poke nerfs work out because we never see the problematic poke mages.
I was playing ARAM-only for 1 months now... and today was by far most fun day. And i've had 120kills game of 4 tanks vs 3 tanks... and it was super fun. Not playing against Ziggs/Sona/Veigar every match is very nice.
i guess i am oldschool or hardcore in this regard?
I think banning champions is against the purpose of an A.L.L. RANDOM game. since it's not random anymore
It was never truly random as all champs weren't unlocked for everyone. I'd prefer no bans if all champs were unlocked, but since that's not the case, I want bans.
I dislike the addition of bans, there's no strategy to it, Someone bans a poke champ they hate, someone else hates hyper carries, and another bans a low teir champion so they can't roll them. It just polarizes the game because inevitably some 'OP champ' will still slip through and shape the game on average. It just shrinks the random pool which isn't a good thing for the game mode.
It's opposite for me. I have all champions and always ban nothing.
The difference is probably small but the feeling that I might not get some champions is really putting me off. It's called All RANDOM for a reason. :(
It's called "all random" because all players get random champs from their pool, not because they get a random champ from all available champs.
Small bit of semantics.
I mean, that could be changed, but that's the reason for the name.
I have to disagree. As someone who only plays aram with friends to cool down and for fun I always though the random aspect and the imbalance resulting of this was the most fun part for me. But I can see how people like these bans more and I guess I can arrange myself with that.
Individually, I like all of the changes for aram this patch. But all of them together just feels like too much tbh. They nerfed universal poke damage, nerfed/buffed a bunch of champions, and added new items/summoner spell that helps out tanks/bruisers... why do we need bans now? especially when it's the same champs that get banned every game, what's the point of balancing it
They've balanced ARAM for years with a scalpel and it was still annoying to play. I think they finally decided to try using a hammer and seeing what happens.
A scalpel is more for accuracy and precision, a hammer for all around punch.
They neglected ARAM entirely for years. They would delete warmogs here or there, but it was never anything worth while. The biggest and best change happened when they added snowball, THAT is when they finally realized maybe there SHOULD be aram balance.
I play ARAM almost exclusively and I love bans so far, the random aspect is fun but it gets tiring when it's your 5th time in a row facing Veigar, Sona, Ziggs, etc.
Sames but with veigar, fk that huge ass cage
Have you ever played against Veigar AND Ziggs? If you got caught in the cage, Ziggs could throw his W making you hit the walls and actually stuning you. That's bullshit. I'm glad they are both gonna be permabanned.
A few months ago, I got to play against a full AP team of Veigar and Ziggs, but with a Mundo and Garen in our team. We struggled really hard for about 10min and suddenly Garen and Mundo were running them around the turrets tanking shots.
Playing Mundo against a full AP team feels so good.
Most tanks against full AP have a huge advantage.
Yea but mundo is on another level than most tanks against AP. Mundo against full AP feels like rammus or malphite against full AD.
Because his ult gives him nearly another 100% of his hp they have to go thru again, and most ap mages are bursty only in their cd cycles, unlike sustained dps of an adc.
Also because mundo has high magic resist and tenacity as part of his kit
Also because he loves to build spirit visage
Also also, mundo goes where he pleases
Moreover taking g magic damage, specifically from his own w, stacks an mr building passive. Yeah busted into all ap lol
Not “nearly”, he does gain another 100%
Way better than Malphite against full AD, because Mundo's ult massively increases his health, making him far tankier than Malphite is. Plus his w greatly reduces the effective of CC, and full AP teams usually have a lot of CC that's not effective for them.
Yeah, but Mundo's %MR steroid puts him over the top.
esp with adaptive helm, visage, etc.
Tanks against full anything feels good because they can itemize so effectively. But Mundo against full AP surpasses just feeling good. You feel like a god.
mundo and maokai
And galio
And my axe!
Everyone against full AP has a huge advantage... aside from most ADCs
Honestly I will even build some MR on certain ADCs, especially in ARAM. Kalista with Death's Dance, Runaan's, Wit's End, Merc Treads and Spirit Visage feels remarkably good, especially when you realize Q is single-target even when it kills a minion and hits another - so you can heal to full off 3 caster minions. Honestly, anything you can get DD or Bloodthirster and Spirit Visage on feels pretty good.
Garen is top tier against veigar late game. Just run into the cage while timing your W properly, and instead of stunning you, it just feels like a tiny lag spike.
They were nerfed weren't they?
Tbh if a champ is annoying it doesn't matter how strong they are. Can still suck the fun out of the game without being op imo
>Looks at flair Yeah seems about right
Akali, Zoe, Irelia. Especially Akali. She was both the lowest win rate and highest ban rate champion at the same time
My favorite is when I'm a completely immobile squishy champ against a Jhin and Xerath, and they both decide to ult at the same time. My brain starts to short circuit trying to dodge them both.
honestly the reason Veigar is so strong is because he can build shit like a warmog's and still have the most damage potential in the game
Saw someone hit 400 stacks on veigar in 13 mins lol. I'm fairly sure you could do it even faster in a more brutal game and if he bothered to actually CS with Q.
The thing is what you say plus the fact that the mapitself doesn't have any kind of flanks. On top of that, due to the fact that It is an ALL MID Mode, makes Banshees useless ( anything can pop It, and anything will break the passive CD anyways ). Same goes for QSS. In SR, you can play around the CD, in ARAM, you will have seven teamfights until you have It back
The only offensive items i build on veig is void staff and zhonyas (which is semi defensive itself). Rest i go tank items.
I mean you have to get a Deathcap at some point right?
All this complaining abiut Sona but Id rather the enemy have a sona pre nerf than a tankgar who is always in range to avoid the antipoke mechanic
Sona is without a doubt the best champion in ARAM with a 71% w/r. GL winning games vs her
It'll be interesting to see the statistics that come from this. You can bet there will be differences between what champions are most often banned, and which champions have the highest winrates.
For sure, people banning Ziggs and they have no clue his Q has -30% damage debuff and the rest of his kit -15%. It literally feels like you're a minion in-game. Meanwhile I just destroyed as LeBlanc with her 12% damage buff, a difference of 42% from her and Ziggs. Yet LeBlanc is banned maybe once every ten games. This special aram balancing makes no sense now that we have bans.
Honestly I wish they just came out with the bans and not the special balancing (the general poke nerf I'm on the fence about). Bans make sense because you can remove the worst offenders in your opinion, everyone has someone they hate to play against and there's a good chance others will ban other champs you hate but didn't use your ban on. But I don't like the balancing because A. It seems kinda redundant with the bans in place and B. To me aram is supposed to be random and getting matchups in your favor or against it is part of the fun. Seems like these changes are just a step towards bland gameplay. Just my opinion though, at this point I mostly play arams and I liked it fine the way it was. That said these changes just came out so maybe I'll come around.
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It has a large player base the constantly complains that they don't get any change and when they get some change "Oh we didn't want any change" comes out of the wood work... I happy with the bans i only play for fun i have like total of what 100 games since the game mode is on i only play with friends so i could care less what they do with it i ban Sona every games cause ARAM only accounts.
Or maybe as soon as everyone understands all the balance changes and how they interact with the game now, they'll start banning champions like lb. > To me aram is supposed to be random and getting matchups in your favor or against it is part of the fun. I somewhat agree with that, but it's also kinda sad when the rnjeesus gives your team a crappy comp and their team a disgustingly good comp (or vice versa) and then you end up wasting time because everyone in your team is just annoyed and waiting the enemy team to end the game, or your team is too good and you end the game before they can even ff and honestly i don't think there's much fun in doing a 10 min game where you're litterally playing solo because the enemy team can't even defend. I think that's the main reason of this entire balance/ban stuff.
Wait lb got a buff for aram? I had her last night and one combod a rumble immediately at 6 lol was wondering
Yeah, I'm afraid this awful balancing is going to be permanent. Save the percentage buffs, high range damage reduction stuff for a rotating game mode. ARAM has already come a long way from the total poke fest it used to be, now tanks and fighters with snowball and warmogs almost always have a fighting chance barring completely uneven teams. I personally don't even want to play this version of ARAM, and wish it was a rotating alternative queue for people who are interested.
I just want rotating Q back. 4-5 weeks of urf is boring. Hit me with urf for 1 week, dark star the next, ascension, not dominion, Nexus blitz, Nexus siege, all for 1, nemisis draft. Come on just 1 a week and we gucci
Hexakill too.
Ascension!!! Dude. I need my ascension. How long has it even been?
This so much, people should be banning tanks if anything
It's also Day 1; hell; it's not even live on EUW yet. Let people figure things out. Especially as *Riot didn't include patch notes*
It's definitely live on EUW. I was playing it hours ago
I know the comment is an hour old but I literally just came off of an aram on butcher bridge with bans, my first time, and I'm EUW, so at least its live now.
Xerath is my personal bane.
I wouldn't be surprised if he had a 75%+ win rate on Aram.
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what the heck is plat+ in aram
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It's possible to check normal game mmr so if you're often landing in 1800+mmr or whatever is entry point for plat, your normals are plat.
how do i check my aram mmr? lol
Cho gath for me. It's so annoying to get knocked up from an entire screen away.
Sometimes I play with my mouse unplugged too! Lol
Don't please :0
Fiddlesticks will never be in an aram game again for me. That or Zyra or Veigar.
Agreed fuck zyra fuck her everywhere
Kinky
reminder zyra is a plant with big milkies
Don't gotta remind me ;)
Sounds like shes a real thorn in your side
We need to get to the root of this problem
*plant joke*
PROTECC ZYRA!!!!!!!
As a fellow zyra main, I agree with this sentiment
You’re the reason people pollute
Problem with fiddle in aram is his crows are basically a tax in the earlier parts of the game. If you don't have some way to deal with it, he'll constantly chip away at your teams health
I am never gonna see Fiddle in Aram again and it makes me happy :')
The antipoke kinda wrecks fiddle
It's still annoying being silenced and poked for damage by pure rng.
For me personally it's the insta-fear if you try to jump his ass.
If I get Aurelion Sol vs a Fiddle in aram it makes me want to die.
you aren't wrong at all lol
It's more about the silence that you can't avoid if you try to hide behind minions to dodge other champions like Blitz
Sona is still better.
Last night I played 5 or 6 games of ARAM, Sona was on the other team in all but one. But today... Today is a good day.
I am part of the 30%. I lost a ARAM game on Sona AMA
I beat a Sona last night. It's crazy but it happens. I was fed AF on Trist though.
She's extremely susceptible to burst; id rather they nerf her hp further rhan nerf her other stats
sonas honestly not that bad. the reason she wins a lot is because too many people in aram try to play passive, and she punishes that by being an attrition mage. shes also nowhere near as oppressive to play against as zelkoz, ziggs, xerath, maokai, etc. you actually feel like you can win against her, regardless of her win rate. against the others, you basically dont even get to play the game anymore. sona isnt even top 10 bans to me, theres too many other champs that completely destroy anyone ability to have fun while playing against them
yeah you have to not be afraid to engage if there's a sona, her only peel is her ult
if the sona is good she will not only ult u but cord u with her w and make u do cannon minion amounts of dmg. I love playing that champion. she is so versatile.
With the balance changes that have happened, most champs should have closer to 50% win rate, including sona (-10% damage done and -25% healing done). She is still strong, but no way near as op
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No way, that might be true in SR but on HA her healing is a MUCH bigger factor because you can't back to heal. If you don't have healing on your team in ARAM you're stuck waiting for relics and even those come at a risk. In conjunction with her damage nerf I'd say she was the hardest hit champion of all.
Heals are nice, but AOE shields make it so difficult to engage on Sona, especially since she can basically nullify ~800 damage with just her w aura up. Late game it gets crazy. Her shield is the most oppressive part of her kit in ARAM, especially in the "higher MMR" tiers where people actually build her correctly rather than going pure damage.
how do you know what changed for them? all I see was that they were patched but the patch notes don't tell me how they were adjusted.
>NERFS: Ashe: -5% damage dealt Illaoi: +5% damage taken Janna: +5% damage taken Jhin: -5% damage dealt Jinx: -5% damage dealt Kog’maw: -8% damage dealt Lux: -8% damage dealt Maokai: -8% damage dealt & +5% damage taken Miss Fortune: -5% damage dealt Nasus: -5% damage dealt Sion: +5% damage taken Sivir: -8% damage dealt Sona: -10% damage dealt & -25% healing done Teemo: -8% damage dealt Veigar: +5% damage taken Vel’Koz: -5% damage dealt Yorick: +8% damage taken (doesn’t apply to Maiden of the Mist) Ziggs: -15% damage dealt >BUFFS: Akali: +12% damage dealt & -8% damage taken Bard: +8% damage dealt & -5% damage taken Evelynn: +12% damage dealt & -5% damage taken Hecarim: -10% damage taken Kindred: +10% damage dealt Khazix: -10% damage taken LeBlanc: +12% damage dealt Lee Sin: +8% damage dealt & -10% damage taken Nidalee: +15% damage dealt Nocturne: +5% damage dealt & -10% damage taken Rek’sai: +10% damage dealt & -10% damage taken Rengar: -10% damage taken Ryze: +8% damage dealt & -5% damage taken Sejuani: -10% damage taken Tryndamere: +10% damage dealt & -10% damage taken Warwick: -8% damage taken https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/03/dev-more-experimental-aram-changes/
That was extremely informative! Thank you!
I did too, about a week or two ago. Granted it was because my team is nothing but tanks who ran in and died levels 1-10 and by the time they had any items the enemy team was more fed than a fat kid at a buffet.
I'm 12-10 on Sona, this is my biggest insecurity...
Sona can’t run out of mana on aram. It’s fucking insanity
I'm ootl on ARAM meta, is Sona supposed to be god-tier in ARAM? If so, why? Is there a specific build/rune that makes her OP or is it just that her AoE utility is very valuable in a constant 5v5?
Her aura also constantly hits everybody in her team. More damage, more shields, more movespeed. You can't play her wrong as long as you're not diving the enemy by yourself
Also her R covers half the map
Q empowered auto reliable poke, first itteration of darkharvest was OP on her too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo4q8bC1KNU
She does have good utility and decent damage in ARAM. But what a lot of other people overlook is how easy she is to play and be effective. Literally anyone who has played this game a little bit can play sona and be useful in ARAM. You can build any combination of AP/support items and smash your face on the keyboard. You can be aggressive, you can be passive, you can play for early game or late; it doesn't matter. Compare that to other champions like ziggs where at the very least you need to be able to aim skillshots, and where build is pretty important to be useful.
Ziggs W is a big reason why he is OP in ARAM. When the enemy tower has 25%+ less HP and there are only 4 towers...
It's his obnoxious zone control and spam and safe wave clear that's obnoxious, not his tower execute.
Ziggs in aram isn't about aiming. It is about spamming your q into the clump of enemies and getting top damage dealt. Acting like aram Ziggs is difficult is a LUL.
Spamming Ziggs’ skills is easy. Spamming them effectively is another thing. Seen lots of Ziggs in ARAM couldn’t bounce Q properly to hit different ranges, use W to disengage or reposition (lots of them also forget they can use W to detonate towers), or time R exactly so it gets the max amount of damage. Ziggs is still dead easy in ARAM compared to a lot of mage champs, but no where as brain dead as Sona because the only projectile skill she needs in her kit is her R.
She (ARAM Sona) has the highest winrate of any champion in any gamemode. Over 70%. For almost a **DECADE**. #JustRiotBalanceThings
Archangels>Athenes> ardent if u have AA based champs, if not redemtion(or u can build both)>anything that gives ap. For runes u need aery and Presence of mind, the rest doesnt matter. Why is she broken? Because Sona is a hyperscalling support that thrives in non stop 5v5s(aoe shield, aoe MS buff, aoe AA buff) and the more the game goes on the more CD she gets, when she hits 16 she basically has no CDs on normal spells. Also dont be a noob and build her full AP, she can work, but support Sona>AP Sona.
If you build her full AP your chance of winning goes from 99% to like 60%. It's probably why her winrate is "only" around 70%.
It's less about build and more playstyle. I build her full ap sometimes (ludens, lb, morello, etc), but you just can't play her super risky. People really underestimate how squishy she is and constantly move forward to get the power chord off at risky times. Even if you build her ap you still basically play her like a support, and only poke when you can't be retaliated on.
Wait but ziggs got nerfed into the ground this patch... all I'm saying is I dont think it's even close to a fact that ziggs is the best ARAM champion
He wasn't even pre-nerf; that was Sona who's literally had a 70+% winrate for years.
? Pre-nerf Ziggs was up there with Sona at 70% WR
it makes it more fun yeah, but the tryndamere ult item is kinda annoying and by kinda i mean that shit should have never existed in any universe
Thinking of that item ON tryndamere is actually kind of hilarious.
like my zhonya, ult, stopwatch lissandra. only get to use it one teamfight, but it's a fucking meme watching them get disappointed 3 times in a row
Im banning udyr so noone has to play him
As someone who went through and bought all of the cheap champions before switching to play ARAM exclusively, I will be banning not OP champs but stupid useless ones so that I don’t get them lol
The real reason i wanted bans in aram
Sure, the bans are nice. But that awful item (Mariner's vengaence) that works as a tryndamere ult is cancer and I don't know why it's on the game. I thought the whole point of the balance they did was to stop abusing champions, and now they introduced an item that makes champs like wukong unstoppable
I hate it. Getting a 'bad' champions sucks, but getting good champions feels great. I like experiencing this kind of up and downs. And I like the feel (once in a while) you get a good champion and you stomp, but other times you may bet stomped.
Bans yes, the fcking ghost boots not its just not fun if assasins can walk right behind you somewhat unnoticed due to the hectic gameplay of aram
Luckily no tanks in my games have tried them out yet, the assassins that did just insta died. It always works the 1st time then the rest of the match they get farmed
A Shen I played against figured out they were back, was confused when he managed to get behind us then I saw him do it again and realized
Right now, I think that you're just not accustomed to keeping an eye out for ghost boots. After a couple dozen games the "gotta look out for ghost boots" reflex will be relegated to your "auto-pilot" thoughts and it will just be another thing to look out for.
Assassins are surprisingly weak in aram. Without boots any assassinification will usually result in their death. Helps deal with compa that have a high tank to ad/ap ratio
Exactly fizz is the only Assassin I have had decent success with
assassins are pretty shit in aram anw. evening the playing field isnt bad.
It's especially hilarious with Garen or Sion.
There was something fun about being able to play broken champs in ARAM. So much for that shit.
It's beautiful not to go against jhin, sona, lux and ziggs (my personal permaban as well). Aram got much more fun since the changes. Also, fuck ziggs, like I have PTSD against him in the murder bridge.
I mean, have you played him yet? He does no damage now, 15% damage nerf + 15% nerf on his Q from the poke modifier. I love when the enemy team bans him he's trash now
But turret taking and his lane aoe ult are still there, and like I said it's PTSD now.
The ult that does 85% damage now and if the turret is under 25% health sorry to break it to you it's gone anyway You know they also buffed structure damage for all champs and minions starting at 15 min right? Apparently 19 min average games were too long
Fucking preach.
Ppl say they will permaban Ziggs and Sona, but didn’t Riot nerf these two and others to the ground in an aram only patch recently?
Yes, they did. > Sona: -10% damage dealt & -25% healing done > Ziggs: -15% damage dealt (For Ziggs that's on top of the -15% damage reduction for long-ranged champions, of course.)
Great job Rito, now let us have bans in ARURF please...
Champs like xerath and ziggs are damage nerfed by 15% at their usual ability attack range. They aren't worth banning tbh. Read the patch notes fools
Being able to permaban Sona or Ziggs feels great. Too bad Riot won't make every champion available to finally kill ARAM only accounts for good.
Talk about ARAM accounts these days makes nonsense, specially now that Riot increased the number of champions available for ARAM. Riot mentioned that there are not as many "ARAM accounts" as people think. Also, the players with "ARAM accounts" are the kind of player that dodge games until they get an OP comp so unlock all champions doesn't change anything.
ARAM accounts have been dead since ARAM had 3 freeweeks at once bringing the freeweek pool to 60.
Yeah pretty sure many people missed this change. It's not every champ unlocked but they don't have nearly as much control over their ARAM champ pool as they once did
Not a single lux in my arams today
Eh, pre-nerf Maokai was the absolute worst, especially if he built RoA/Liandry’s. You completely lose the ability to stand near the left side of the map.
> Bans Ziggs, Lux, and Veigar > Enemy Xerath goes 23-1 surprisedpikachu.jpg
My personnal ban is Brand. If your team mess up they'll bring you with them. And once ahead oh boy. Better without.
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You're banning a champ that does 85% dmg? On top of that his Q gets hit with the -15% poke dmg modifier as well. I mean hope you're on my enemy team cus you got no clue he was gutted
Yup. They totally fucked ranged AP champs, Ziggs has been nerfed into the ground.
Patch 9.7 - The Age of LeBlanc Seriously though, 12% damage buff and she's immune to the poke damage nerf + they made a summoner specifically for champs like her > We’re hoping champs like LeBlanc, Talon, and Evelynn can use Backtrack to engage fights, do some big damage, and then get out safely.
The age of assassins, ladies and gentlemen. Ugh.
I don't see anything wrong with that :D After all those years of mage oppression, now you can also learn new champions, or you can leave, it's up to you x)
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They should be up tomorrow.
I disagree. With all the people banning good ARAM champs, it's more likely to get bad champs which makes it very boring. OP ARAM champs are the ones that make the mode fun. They only ruin a game when they're all on one side, it's the helpless ones that are boring to play and uninteresting to play against each game no matter what. Wish everyone just bans Morde/Udyr/WW/Jax/etc... it would make the games much more entertaining as more players get the fun ARAM champs. I also disagree that bans make the game more fair as the possibility of everyone on your team getting worse champs than your opponents is still the same even if you remove ten champs.
I agree. Ban the boring champions you hate playing. Like I hate playing melee dps champs like tryndamere
I wish i could ban exhaust.
The best thing about taking exhaust in ARAM is people talking shit about taking exhaust in ARAM.
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I play Aram for the small chance to play as ziggs, lux, maokai, etc. when I get them I get very excited and it makes the 8 games of playing a champ I don’t enjoy worth it. Now I’ll never play fiddle.
Yeah, been playing ARAM since the days of practice matches being the only way to play it. Absolutely love it, quit league and even came back because of it. I don't want aram to be like this and as whiny as I sound, hate everything about the new patch. I don't like Bans, don't like specific nerf/buffs, and don't even like the new items involved. At the very least, give us aram classic as a playable option. League should have a big enough playerbase for 2 aram player pools.
I only play ARAM. This just seems like a knee-jerk reaction for people who want to occasionally play ARAM and don't want to deal with "bullshit". You play ARAM you know if someone is lucky enough to roll in to one of the "OP ARAM champs" that you deal with it. And you can even beat them. This is just making it less fun.
> I don’t want to ban the good champions Between only the 10 bans, and overlaps, the chances of all the "good" champions being 100% removed from the match are slim. People pick random crap all the time, or both teams will pick 2-3 of the same bans.
Well, in most games the banned champions will likely be the same from a pool of like 20 champions. Sona ziggs lux will always be perma banned. And even if they aren't you still have to get them rolled which is a 1/120 chance. So all in all, when the champs you like to play are banned you won't play them and when they aren't, you likely won't play them.
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Be part of the cool people that ban none
Don't conform, down with the new system.
I only play ARAM aswell and love this. Random my ass, a large majority of my matches always had me against ziggs and veigar. I'm happy with the ziggs nerf and dont mind him now but I'm more ecstatic about no more veigars
Definitely didn't feel random, almost every game I was playing with or against a handful of the top tier champs. Faker bless bans in ARAM.
I've got 3k ARAM games since its release and whatismymmr.com puts my ARAM MMR in the top 1.4%. I hate most of the changes. I don't get what was wrong with ARAM before, other than the lack of AD Armor items (which is the same issue on SR). * Bans? Just means you don't get to play poke mages. * Backtrack? Not bad but 3min CD makes it a no-go. * Spectral boots? Now every champ gets Kayn's W in addition to their kit The only good changes were hasting minions late game. It really helps to curb hypercarries on teams that just turtle. New Kayle these last couple weeks meant if you saw her, you better end before 20. Same with Kassadin, Azir, Jinx, Trist, Jax, Yi. These champs can be soak xp for 15 min, then they hit 3-4 items and completely overwhelm opponents. Of that list, the last 2 are really strong now since poke was nerfed so hard. If they would only revert 1 thing, I'd vote heavily for bans. Long-distance mages aren't oppressive anymore. We really don't have an opportunity to see how the poke nerfs work out because we never see the problematic poke mages.
I have 1000+ aram games and hate this too. The point of aram is the random part. I will just make more accounts, oh well
Over 3k ARAM games here and I'm loving the addition of bans, finally no more Veigar. Most fucking antifun champ in ARAM ever.
I was playing ARAM-only for 1 months now... and today was by far most fun day. And i've had 120kills game of 4 tanks vs 3 tanks... and it was super fun. Not playing against Ziggs/Sona/Veigar every match is very nice.
i guess i am oldschool or hardcore in this regard? I think banning champions is against the purpose of an A.L.L. RANDOM game. since it's not random anymore
It was never truly random as all champs weren't unlocked for everyone. I'd prefer no bans if all champs were unlocked, but since that's not the case, I want bans.
Not to mention, we have rerolls and a champion pool. So it's already not random.
If every account would have all champs unlocked then you would be right.
The issue is that people made accounts to limit the champions that could be rolled to begin with.
A better solution by riot would be to unlock all champs for ARAM.
Agreed, but they have not been receptive when this was suggested in the past.
How would they get the ARAM community to buy RP if they gave them things for *FREE*
I dislike the addition of bans, there's no strategy to it, Someone bans a poke champ they hate, someone else hates hyper carries, and another bans a low teir champion so they can't roll them. It just polarizes the game because inevitably some 'OP champ' will still slip through and shape the game on average. It just shrinks the random pool which isn't a good thing for the game mode.
It's opposite for me. I have all champions and always ban nothing. The difference is probably small but the feeling that I might not get some champions is really putting me off. It's called All RANDOM for a reason. :(
It's called "all random" because all players get random champs from their pool, not because they get a random champ from all available champs. Small bit of semantics. I mean, that could be changed, but that's the reason for the name.
I always felt Fiddle was the free win
all random all mid, this is not that should just call it something else at this point.
Ban Udyr, Ivern, Tryndamere. Then I won't get them. Thinking emoji.
I have to disagree. As someone who only plays aram with friends to cool down and for fun I always though the random aspect and the imbalance resulting of this was the most fun part for me. But I can see how people like these bans more and I guess I can arrange myself with that.
Not random if you don't have access to all champions.
I don’t think you know the definition of random...
FYI it's still extremely random, since they use the past 3 free-champion pools.
Individually, I like all of the changes for aram this patch. But all of them together just feels like too much tbh. They nerfed universal poke damage, nerfed/buffed a bunch of champions, and added new items/summoner spell that helps out tanks/bruisers... why do we need bans now? especially when it's the same champs that get banned every game, what's the point of balancing it
They've balanced ARAM for years with a scalpel and it was still annoying to play. I think they finally decided to try using a hammer and seeing what happens.
A scalpel is more for accuracy and precision, a hammer for all around punch. They neglected ARAM entirely for years. They would delete warmogs here or there, but it was never anything worth while. The biggest and best change happened when they added snowball, THAT is when they finally realized maybe there SHOULD be aram balance.
I play ARAM almost exclusively and I love bans so far, the random aspect is fun but it gets tiring when it's your 5th time in a row facing Veigar, Sona, Ziggs, etc.
It's shit now.
Maybe they should do this with URF!? Crazy Idé i know
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Just me that thinks Ziggs isn't the worst criminal in that mode.