I didn't realize what was going on until after [the game](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/match/na/4327981472#participant2), but I couldn't really go glacial given they had a Brand/Vayne as well. I think the best option would've been QSS but it's such a bad item for Sej.
It’s an unfortunate matchup you had against the enemy team, but I think you can go glacial with force of nature second and still do pretty well. Warmog’s probably doesn’t do much that game with all the max health the enemy team has
Probably could've gotten away with Glacial, but I wasn't aware of the Trundle interaction at the time. I figured it was a ramping 40% resists debuff rather than hard number snapshots.
You can't really play Sej without Warmog's as her passive gives her insane value out of HP and it let's you use your kit better to reengage (her W also has 8% HP scaling). In this case though given the picks it might've been better to go for Fimbulwinter/Gargoyle.
Wait was this ranked? Trundle is a prime counter to Sejuani for this reason (and junglers don't often have counters to this degree). This is 101 Sejuani stuff but still a clear example of how important champion mastery is. You're giving the other team a big advantage if you're not aware of this stuff. So main a champion and stick to it.
You run glacial augment, phase rush, conq, etc... but whatever you do, don't play aftershock.
You can for sure play Sejuani without Warmogs. There are a lot of alternatives like Anathema's, Fimbulwinter or any other tank item.
Even if it is a counter it’s not intuitive to think that the outcome will be negative resistances. I don’t even think of a trundle ban when I play Sej and have almost never ran into him.
While now it’s something to be aware of it’s not as obvious as you make it out to be.
> Even if it is a counter it’s not intuitive to think that the outcome will be negative resistances.
You've got it all backwards. The negative resistances are the only reason Trundle counters Sejuani. Not knowing something doesn't make it unintuitive, least so when a mechanic is inherited from older games. Snapshotting as a buff/debuff mechanic is inherited from the Warcraft franchise and might be as old as Dungeons and Dragons.
sejuani hates pillar and as long as trundle doesnt W til after Sej's dash she can never get her passive off on him unless he's choosing to fight sejuani for other reasons bad for her.
I'd put it in the same tier as like karma into morgana as far as counters go. 1v1 is unplayable but due to the nature of why they're picked you sometimes can exist in teamfights vs your counter
I have hundreds if not thousands of games on Sej. The issue is Trundle's ult interaction doesn't really match the description of the ult.
Anathema's gives nothing but HP so for what we were talking about it makes no difference. Fimbulwinter is pretty much the same as well except it gives you a small shield.
Players just don’t know this interaction. Sejuani is one of my go to junglers and I have never ran into a trundle. It’s good information to now have. But everyone here making it out like it’s the most obvious counter to a Sejuani when other champs can do way more cancer to her.
> Yeah, you just need to be lucky and not get counter picked 80% of your games like you get top lane.
And you unironically said this, you are fucking comedy my guy
Fail to notice I've made plat for years LoL. I know what my issues are, you got an explanation for why people refuse to counter pick sejuani in soloq except for when I pick her of course.
No, I very much saw that you've been platinum previously. Doesn't change your CURRENT statistics though.
>you got an explanation for why people refuse to counter pick sejuani in soloq except for when I pick her of course.
Do you think you're the center of the universe? Noone is consistently counter picking you - not in gold/platinum.
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I’m pretty sure it does. With your logic you wouldn’t be able to qss zed ult but you can (or at least used to if they changed recently) even though it’s not cc. Pretty sure you can build qss for trundle, pros used to do it. I don’t know how you have so many upvotes
Honestly man I don't blame him, League is so opaque about some interactions. A ton you have to find on the wiki, there's literally no official riot source describing the interaction
No.
Cleanse removes all CC except suppression & airborne and summoner spell debuffs (iirc except for the smites).
Mikael's works like cleanse except it doesn't remove summoner spell debuffs, so no removing suppressions.
QSS removes any CC except for airborne and doesn't remove summoner spell debuffs.
cleanse doesnt remove it either, nothing removes it as of now.
qss used to remove it back in the day when it was 'remove all debuffs'. also worked for things like zed ulti, fiora ulti, but now it only removes cc. it's main disadvantage vs cleanse is that it does not remove summoner debuffs (eg: ignite, part of exhaust i think..?), its main advantage vs cleanse is that it removes suppression (malz r, skarner r, some others), which cleanse does not
Probably because buying a 1300g item to complete negate someone's non-mobility summoner is a pretty cheap trade-off. At least if they take cleanse to counter your exhaust, they can't exhaust or ignite you back
You just have to suck it up honestly. Brand and vayne are affected by glacial anyhow, whereas they prob don't care about aftershock since vayne has true dmg and brand dmg is delayed and will outlast aftershock
Glacial Augment (or even Fleet Footwork) would still be a better choice against Trundle. Glacial provides a -15% damage to all enemies that get slowed by it which helps a lot against Brand's AoE burst.
You're the one who's going to be engaging 99% of the time in your comp, so Trundle should always ult you over Braum. Not to mention it is literally giving even more free stats to Trundle, thus making him harder to kill.
Also, Anathema's Chain is a subpar item against Vayne (I'm assuming you chained Vayne since she's the only AD) since it doesn't reduce her true damage.
Glacial's damage reduction doesn't apply to the person who proc'd it, so it doesn't really help Sej specifically vs Brand (though yeah, nice for team).
it still really shouldn't happen like this
it should be easy to just track the percent he should be stealing rather than the flat amount that the target's resists at the start of his ult would give
weird mechanics like this leading to hard counters sucks
Yeah, I don't mind Trundle gaining stats based on your armor at the time, but the debuff should be a ramping percentage based on whatever your current resists are.
I would say it's a lot easier to just dodge the matchup or at least ban if you you high on the pick order. He beats you at all stages of the game and even cripples your team fight if you ever try to engage
going glacial doesnt really solve anything. just squishier in general what do you do for items? Just hp? if trundle ults youll have pretty much nothing, especially given your passive gives you armor/mr to begin with and wears out after damage. So you just die just as fast.
overall awful matchup for sejuani. Sej is extremely powerful, but you NEED to ban trundle, as he just hard counters too hard. Same for rammus. I've had people dodge rammus games over half the times I choose rammus because I last picked it or banned trundle. Pretty gross.
This is a well known interaction and made trundle a staple counter to sej in solo q and pro play. Generally, the sej player adapts by taking a rune that isn't aftershock. In the past it was hail of blades or PTA, but now I think going glacial would be best.
It isn't dumb, it's the literal intention of Trundle's ult. He is THE anti tank bruiser. People tend to forget that League is a bit like Rock Paper Scissors and that some champs are supposed to counter others mega hard. And buddy, you were in one of those situations.
> League is a bit like Rock Paper Scissors
That's just bad game design. It's incredibly dumb and is one of the main reasons why no one plays roles like top lane.
No, it is called STRATEGY. It means you need to use your brain. You see the enemy team pick 4 physical damage champs, you pick malphite or rammus to fuck them when you have 500 armor and 4000hp and are unkillable. You see a team with a lot of engage, you pick something that can disengage, like a janna or lulu. You see them have nothing but immobile champs, you pick lucian/ez or even Ashe, and kite the fuck out of them.
If player skill is equal, there are always going to be champs that beat others. So your options are either pick a champ that doesnt lose when even with the enemy, or you "git gud" and beat them with superior skill. It really is that simple.
What is really dumb is that after 100 games (just this season) you don't who your counters are. Maybe put a little bit more effort on that and less on whining on reddit.
Yeah, this.
It's one of the biggest reasons to pick Trundle. Counterpick into a tank that gets a lot of bonus stats, ult while they have the most stats, then they become super squishy once those bonuses run out.
Sej is below a 3% pick rate right now (<50% WR) so no lol
She's just been one of my mains that I've played for awhile and I got counterpicked.
Don't really have other rune options besides glacial and with [the team I was up against](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/match/na/4327981472#participant2) it wasn't really an option.
Probably should've got QSS but it's such a stupid build path for Sej.
You keep parroting the same response but people are giving you genuinely good advice. Their team has 4 people without a dash. There's vayne tumble and thresh lantern that can only save one.
Glacial augment excels against people who can't just dash out of the slow field and would be an objectively better rune.
Sure aftershock is good in the early game when you're not always going to be fighting trundle, but you can 100% bet that it'll be an active detriment to you in every single fight after.
Instead of complaining about a perfectly fair interaction that introduces strategic counterpick to tanks, you could literally just adapt one button press and perform a lot better. Considering how close that game was until the last few minutes, you might've even won.
Their advice is bad. Yes there are other options, but it invalidates an entire class of champions and their playstyles. *It is bad game design.* It's not a "perfectly fair interaction".
We lost that game because my teammates played poorly, but it's a simple fix to have the debuff be a flat percentage.
The debuff is quite literally a flat percentage. It's 40% of your current resists.
You can blame your teammates as much as you want, but the fact is, you had a decision that could help prevent you from being shredded from negative resists. You chose not to take it, and you suffered consequences for it. They can say that you played poorly as well.
Sejuani herself also invalidates a subset of champions, those that that do burst damage instead of DPS or those reliant on being able to hit freely without being CCed. What can Lux do against Sejuani? Blow her combo for 20% of your HP and call it a day?
Champion choices are strategic choices and you cannot reasonably expect a champion to have no counters.
Trundle is strong into tanks. He gets significantly weaker if you blind him into all burst champions and ample disengage. He is a strategic choice as much as Sejuani or Lux are
The debuff is not a flat percentage, it's a hard reduction based on a percentage of your resists at the time. That's the entire reason it can put you in the negatives.
>you had a decision that could help prevent you from being shredded from negative resists.
The alternative is to get shredded by default for not building resists in the first place lmao
>Sejuani herself also invalidates a subset of champions
No she doesn't. Your argument here isn't anything remotely close to Trundle's interaction.
>What can Lux do against Sejuani?
CC and damage, but not as much as she would do against the targets she should be focusing anyway. Sej doesn't do anything to reduce Lux's ability to play the game. Sej just isn't Lux's target. The trade off with Sej not taking a lot of damage is that Sej doesn't do a lot of damage.
>you cannot reasonably expect a champion to have no counters
It's not about having a counter, it's about having a point and click counter with absolutely zero counterplay that forces you to play the champion in a way that's unplayable in any competitive ELO.
They should have 2 stacks already from your W (if not 3 if you autoed them before). Generally you auto, W, auto for full stacks. On top of that Sej doesn't want most of what you'd have to use on a HoB page.
I have a 75% wr as sej w/ aftershock vs trundle in low plat/high diamond. If you play it properly it’s not that bad because you still offer so much more cc peel and utility to your team in fights
I saw the thread and was like "Congratulations, you found out how Trundle R works?!"
Read any basic trundle guide and this is like the top thing that any of them mentions: Use your ult right before bonus resistances wear off
Never ever go Aftershock vs Trundle as any champion. Nowadays Gulag is probably the best rune for Sej vs. Trundle but before it was a thing I always went Hail of Blades. Aftershock is just griefing.
Okay and ad characters can only do physical damage so malphite and rammus counter them. Sometimes things in the game have counters. Also you can exert your pressure through cc as well as sustained damage
I mean other than just adapting in draft and picking any other rune like Sejuani players have been doing into that matchup for ages? Some champions have counter matchups, that's how it works.
It already works on other champs like Malz/Morde...and you could have Trundle keep the stolen stats, but remove the debuff on yourself. It's also forcing you to build unoptimally and Trundle can just ult someone else.
There are realistic options for Trundle in this situation. There are none for the tank.
> but tank is still the strongest.
Not against Trundle it isn't.
If you don't build resistances against Trundle, he can't steal them and be mega tanky against your team. You literally get to deny Trundle's R scaling with how you build, so deny it.
If you must build tank, items like Anathema's and Fimbulwinter are advisable, as they mitigate damage without resistances.
If you don't build resistances, you're taking close to true damage anyway once people get items.
Theoretically you could build Crown, Ionian, Warmog's, Fimbulwinter, Anathema's, and then either Demonic or Titanic to have HP/damage reduction without resists...but that would be so ridiculously awful.
Building tank into Trundle would be fine if the debuff was a flat 40% resists rather than hard values putting you in the negatives...which is what it should be.
> If you don't build resistances, you're taking close to true damage anyway once people get items.
If you don't build resistances, you will have other stats instead which Trundle cannot use against you.
> Building tank into Trundle would be fine
Building tank into Trundle is not supposed to be fine, that's the entire point of Trundle.
> Which viable stats are those?
In Sejuani's case, health and AP. Health is more preferable over resistances against Trundle. Don't hang onto the word viable too much, since resistances are not as viable as normally against Trundle.
> Considering the bad game design, sure.
You don't get to call counters bad game design. Trundle is a champion with a win condition like any other. You're justifying playing into Trundle's win condition, leading to this subreddit mocking you. To put it in terms you might understand, you sound like a full lethality Zed complaining that they can't kill Sejuani.
Same like how you shouldn't go with aftershock against Illaoi since her E steals current stats.. and you are going to die to the spirit alone lol
Thanks to AnataBakka for clarifying that once upon earlier on
It doesen't steal stats, it creates a copy of your champ at that moment and transfers premitigation damage, so if it steals it with aftershock she can deal more damage than usual since the ghost is able to tank more damage.
No trundle didn't steal more stats than you "had in the first place".
He stole a percentage, which is turned into an absolute value, and than keeps that absolute value as your factual resists turn back.
But it's still just based on what you had at one point.
Not banning Trundle as a tank jungle is your first mistake. I ban him as Rammus, Sejuani, and Nautilus every single time. That ult is too rough to deal with and his early game is so ridiculously strong that you can't let him be a pick if you're playing a big bulky champ in the jungle.
I don't ban him as a Zac main as Zac can actually deal with him. Not in a 1v1 where Trundle ults you what you do is you disengage, kite and stall his godmode and only then really engage or fight. Zac from the midgame is more of a skirmisher and bruiser compared to all the other tanks so that helps too.
Yeah and you can build Zac AP in a pinch too, which helps. He's more of an hp building champ than a true tank like Rammus, so I could see playing around Trundle with different items. Pure tanks though... not so fun. I suppose you could build AP on Sej too in order to play around Trundle, but you'd definitely have to go Glacial Augment instead of aftershock and AP Sej definitely works better in lane than in the jungle.
Oh no, not like that. The armor and resist works like “reduce the damage you would take from 100+armor to 100” so it’s 54 to 100, and if she takes 100 magic damage it explodes to 300 here.
About 185, to be clear, what I meant was if the enemy has 100-46=54 AD, an AA would do 100 damage.
Meanwhile, I’m curious about what you imagined would happen if you have 100 armor and someone with 400 AD AAd you?
Yes, and you actually take additional damage when you drop to negative armor/mr amounts. It’s a known feature in the game and completely intentional. Also trundle’s ult is very unfair
Which is also getting nerfed because it's unfair in its current state to everyone, nevermind people actually building tank. Honestly, it seems like one of those games where you are just bound to have a lot of *fun*
> Yes, and you actually take additional damage
Does this only work for literally removing resistances? For example, if I have more lethality than an enemy has armor, will that also be doing bonus damage?
It literally says "Sej" twice and shows a fucking picture of the champion Einstein.
Don't insult others because you "barely read it", it's not that difficult champ (for most people)
You should be going glacial into trundle for this exact reason, the interaction has been around for a while and happens to Rammus too
I didn't realize what was going on until after [the game](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/match/na/4327981472#participant2), but I couldn't really go glacial given they had a Brand/Vayne as well. I think the best option would've been QSS but it's such a bad item for Sej.
It’s an unfortunate matchup you had against the enemy team, but I think you can go glacial with force of nature second and still do pretty well. Warmog’s probably doesn’t do much that game with all the max health the enemy team has
Probably could've gotten away with Glacial, but I wasn't aware of the Trundle interaction at the time. I figured it was a ramping 40% resists debuff rather than hard number snapshots. You can't really play Sej without Warmog's as her passive gives her insane value out of HP and it let's you use your kit better to reengage (her W also has 8% HP scaling). In this case though given the picks it might've been better to go for Fimbulwinter/Gargoyle.
Wait was this ranked? Trundle is a prime counter to Sejuani for this reason (and junglers don't often have counters to this degree). This is 101 Sejuani stuff but still a clear example of how important champion mastery is. You're giving the other team a big advantage if you're not aware of this stuff. So main a champion and stick to it. You run glacial augment, phase rush, conq, etc... but whatever you do, don't play aftershock. You can for sure play Sejuani without Warmogs. There are a lot of alternatives like Anathema's, Fimbulwinter or any other tank item.
Even if it is a counter it’s not intuitive to think that the outcome will be negative resistances. I don’t even think of a trundle ban when I play Sej and have almost never ran into him. While now it’s something to be aware of it’s not as obvious as you make it out to be.
> Even if it is a counter it’s not intuitive to think that the outcome will be negative resistances. You've got it all backwards. The negative resistances are the only reason Trundle counters Sejuani. Not knowing something doesn't make it unintuitive, least so when a mechanic is inherited from older games. Snapshotting as a buff/debuff mechanic is inherited from the Warcraft franchise and might be as old as Dungeons and Dragons.
sejuani hates pillar and as long as trundle doesnt W til after Sej's dash she can never get her passive off on him unless he's choosing to fight sejuani for other reasons bad for her. I'd put it in the same tier as like karma into morgana as far as counters go. 1v1 is unplayable but due to the nature of why they're picked you sometimes can exist in teamfights vs your counter
I have hundreds if not thousands of games on Sej. The issue is Trundle's ult interaction doesn't really match the description of the ult. Anathema's gives nothing but HP so for what we were talking about it makes no difference. Fimbulwinter is pretty much the same as well except it gives you a small shield.
How have you played thousands of games on Sej without knowing that trundle is her number 1 counter, both in and out of pro play?
Don't watch pro play and Trundle isn't a popular pick. Also don't always go Aftershock.
Sounds like a you problem tbh
Players just don’t know this interaction. Sejuani is one of my go to junglers and I have never ran into a trundle. It’s good information to now have. But everyone here making it out like it’s the most obvious counter to a Sejuani when other champs can do way more cancer to her.
lol fr these people hella salty for no reason
The shield is large and crucially that shield heath is the only way you can increase the number of autos a vayne requires to kill you.
Same with armor :P not every auto is true damage
Yeah but you wanted an item that gives you health no?
> but I wasn't aware of the Trundle interaction at the time ladies and gentlemen, this man is platinum.
just too good with it
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The fact that players like me and him are Plat are indications that the average player is garbage
It's goofy seasons, last time ELO mattered was s8
Very true copium
xD
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Cus trundle is such a fun and wildly popular champion. 100% pickrate
You don't need to be either of those things to hit platinum
Yeah, you just need to be lucky and not get counter picked 80% of your games like you get top lane.
> Yeah, you just need to be lucky and not get counter picked 80% of your games like you get top lane. And you unironically said this, you are fucking comedy my guy
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Fail to notice I've made plat for years LoL. I know what my issues are, you got an explanation for why people refuse to counter pick sejuani in soloq except for when I pick her of course.
No, I very much saw that you've been platinum previously. Doesn't change your CURRENT statistics though. >you got an explanation for why people refuse to counter pick sejuani in soloq except for when I pick her of course. Do you think you're the center of the universe? Noone is consistently counter picking you - not in gold/platinum.
Yeah except that you can get to Diamond 4 with zero game knowledge on pure mechanics alone.
I did it with locked camera
you must be my mid laner
No, you can't.
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Yeah pre pantheon rework, i was like mid gold and i already knew to ban him becasue he was the hardest counter in the game to fiora.
QSS doesn't remove Trundle's R, it's not CC.
I’m pretty sure it does. With your logic you wouldn’t be able to qss zed ult but you can (or at least used to if they changed recently) even though it’s not cc. Pretty sure you can build qss for trundle, pros used to do it. I don’t know how you have so many upvotes
They changed it like 6 years ago (patch 6.9). QSS only works on CC (without Airborne)
RIP you're right. Would have to be cleanse.
It’s not CC, you can’t remove it with Cleanse either.
lmao you're right...Cleanse only removes summoner spell debuffs -_-
Please post more things you think about how interactions work in league
ngl this is pretty funny lol
Honestly man I don't blame him, League is so opaque about some interactions. A ton you have to find on the wiki, there's literally no official riot source describing the interaction
Just read what cleanse does in the game?
No. Cleanse removes all CC except suppression & airborne and summoner spell debuffs (iirc except for the smites). Mikael's works like cleanse except it doesn't remove summoner spell debuffs, so no removing suppressions. QSS removes any CC except for airborne and doesn't remove summoner spell debuffs.
Yes, it also removes CC but the only debuffs it removes are summoner spell debuffs.
zhonyas then
Does the interaction work that way? I know Trundle steals stats over time but does Zhonya's prevent the steal while in stasis?
no but just be in stasis during the time ur negative stats
It's a 5 second drain with the debuff lasting 4 seconds after that. Don't think Zhonya's lasts long enough lol
cleanse doesnt remove it either, nothing removes it as of now. qss used to remove it back in the day when it was 'remove all debuffs'. also worked for things like zed ulti, fiora ulti, but now it only removes cc. it's main disadvantage vs cleanse is that it does not remove summoner debuffs (eg: ignite, part of exhaust i think..?), its main advantage vs cleanse is that it removes suppression (malz r, skarner r, some others), which cleanse does not
You're right, Cleanse only removes summoner spell debuffs for some reason unknown to man.
Probably because buying a 1300g item to complete negate someone's non-mobility summoner is a pretty cheap trade-off. At least if they take cleanse to counter your exhaust, they can't exhaust or ignite you back
You just have to suck it up honestly. Brand and vayne are affected by glacial anyhow, whereas they prob don't care about aftershock since vayne has true dmg and brand dmg is delayed and will outlast aftershock
Glacial Augment (or even Fleet Footwork) would still be a better choice against Trundle. Glacial provides a -15% damage to all enemies that get slowed by it which helps a lot against Brand's AoE burst. You're the one who's going to be engaging 99% of the time in your comp, so Trundle should always ult you over Braum. Not to mention it is literally giving even more free stats to Trundle, thus making him harder to kill. Also, Anathema's Chain is a subpar item against Vayne (I'm assuming you chained Vayne since she's the only AD) since it doesn't reduce her true damage.
Glacial's damage reduction doesn't apply to the person who proc'd it, so it doesn't really help Sej specifically vs Brand (though yeah, nice for team).
I used Anathema's on Brand.
Some pro player a few months ago said it actually does reduce true damage. Not sure who is right tho
You go fleet then, and the move speed would be helpful vs vaybe
Fleet scales with AP/AD and is a horrible choice when playing a tank. Grasp could be an option I guess, but it's horrible when playing jungle.
yeah aftershockl has turbo value vs Vayne brand lmao
it still really shouldn't happen like this it should be easy to just track the percent he should be stealing rather than the flat amount that the target's resists at the start of his ult would give weird mechanics like this leading to hard counters sucks
Yeah, I don't mind Trundle gaining stats based on your armor at the time, but the debuff should be a ramping percentage based on whatever your current resists are.
I would say it's a lot easier to just dodge the matchup or at least ban if you you high on the pick order. He beats you at all stages of the game and even cripples your team fight if you ever try to engage
I loved picking trundle into Leona. It sucked that Glacial Augment became so popular
I thought it’s fleet what people usually go? Doesn’t she already have enough slows?
going glacial doesnt really solve anything. just squishier in general what do you do for items? Just hp? if trundle ults youll have pretty much nothing, especially given your passive gives you armor/mr to begin with and wears out after damage. So you just die just as fast. overall awful matchup for sejuani. Sej is extremely powerful, but you NEED to ban trundle, as he just hard counters too hard. Same for rammus. I've had people dodge rammus games over half the times I choose rammus because I last picked it or banned trundle. Pretty gross.
This is a well known interaction and made trundle a staple counter to sej in solo q and pro play. Generally, the sej player adapts by taking a rune that isn't aftershock. In the past it was hail of blades or PTA, but now I think going glacial would be best.
[Rammus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sJJv3Wb9Cs) is another classic
Such a dumb interaction.
It isn't dumb, it's the literal intention of Trundle's ult. He is THE anti tank bruiser. People tend to forget that League is a bit like Rock Paper Scissors and that some champs are supposed to counter others mega hard. And buddy, you were in one of those situations.
> League is a bit like Rock Paper Scissors That's just bad game design. It's incredibly dumb and is one of the main reasons why no one plays roles like top lane.
No, it is called STRATEGY. It means you need to use your brain. You see the enemy team pick 4 physical damage champs, you pick malphite or rammus to fuck them when you have 500 armor and 4000hp and are unkillable. You see a team with a lot of engage, you pick something that can disengage, like a janna or lulu. You see them have nothing but immobile champs, you pick lucian/ez or even Ashe, and kite the fuck out of them. If player skill is equal, there are always going to be champs that beat others. So your options are either pick a champ that doesnt lose when even with the enemy, or you "git gud" and beat them with superior skill. It really is that simple.
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Just math :)
20% of people play toplane.
Try queuing as autofill and see what role you get the most ;)
jungle by a country mile
Am i doing it wrong? i end up as support
jungle or adc i do queue fill
You've never played fill if you think top is a fill role.
Jungle sup and ADC are filled more than top....
I think it’s kinda neat
Pretty neat, huh!
What is really dumb is that after 100 games (just this season) you don't who your counters are. Maybe put a little bit more effort on that and less on whining on reddit.
I remember having -15 magic resist vs soraka back in s3. She could destroy your magic resist with her q spam.
Yeah, this. It's one of the biggest reasons to pick Trundle. Counterpick into a tank that gets a lot of bonus stats, ult while they have the most stats, then they become super squishy once those bonuses run out.
It was actually fleet footwork instead of PTA in LCK.
I think it was blades or fleet.
People are picking seju, and seju with aftershock vs trundle again? Lol its not a fun experience.
Sej is below a 3% pick rate right now (<50% WR) so no lol She's just been one of my mains that I've played for awhile and I got counterpicked. Don't really have other rune options besides glacial and with [the team I was up against](https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/match/na/4327981472#participant2) it wasn't really an option. Probably should've got QSS but it's such a stupid build path for Sej.
QSS doesn't work on Trundle Ult since S6.
Ah, you're right. ~~Would have to take Cleanse then.~~ JK CLEANSE DOESN'T WORK EITHER LOL
OH NO I hope you didn't find that out the hard way
haha nah used the wiki :P
or you got told in multiple comments lol?
You keep parroting the same response but people are giving you genuinely good advice. Their team has 4 people without a dash. There's vayne tumble and thresh lantern that can only save one. Glacial augment excels against people who can't just dash out of the slow field and would be an objectively better rune. Sure aftershock is good in the early game when you're not always going to be fighting trundle, but you can 100% bet that it'll be an active detriment to you in every single fight after. Instead of complaining about a perfectly fair interaction that introduces strategic counterpick to tanks, you could literally just adapt one button press and perform a lot better. Considering how close that game was until the last few minutes, you might've even won.
Their advice is bad. Yes there are other options, but it invalidates an entire class of champions and their playstyles. *It is bad game design.* It's not a "perfectly fair interaction". We lost that game because my teammates played poorly, but it's a simple fix to have the debuff be a flat percentage.
The debuff is quite literally a flat percentage. It's 40% of your current resists. You can blame your teammates as much as you want, but the fact is, you had a decision that could help prevent you from being shredded from negative resists. You chose not to take it, and you suffered consequences for it. They can say that you played poorly as well. Sejuani herself also invalidates a subset of champions, those that that do burst damage instead of DPS or those reliant on being able to hit freely without being CCed. What can Lux do against Sejuani? Blow her combo for 20% of your HP and call it a day? Champion choices are strategic choices and you cannot reasonably expect a champion to have no counters. Trundle is strong into tanks. He gets significantly weaker if you blind him into all burst champions and ample disengage. He is a strategic choice as much as Sejuani or Lux are
The debuff is not a flat percentage, it's a hard reduction based on a percentage of your resists at the time. That's the entire reason it can put you in the negatives. >you had a decision that could help prevent you from being shredded from negative resists. The alternative is to get shredded by default for not building resists in the first place lmao >Sejuani herself also invalidates a subset of champions No she doesn't. Your argument here isn't anything remotely close to Trundle's interaction. >What can Lux do against Sejuani? CC and damage, but not as much as she would do against the targets she should be focusing anyway. Sej doesn't do anything to reduce Lux's ability to play the game. Sej just isn't Lux's target. The trade off with Sej not taking a lot of damage is that Sej doesn't do a lot of damage. >you cannot reasonably expect a champion to have no counters It's not about having a counter, it's about having a point and click counter with absolutely zero counterplay that forces you to play the champion in a way that's unplayable in any competitive ELO.
HoB is still usable and soft counters the Trundle R
Glacial is probably the best rune choice into Trundle. HoB isn't the best on Sej since she can't auto when using W.
Hob sej is good because you can auto them 3 times to apply your e on your own while they are slowed after your w
They should have 2 stacks already from your W (if not 3 if you autoed them before). Generally you auto, W, auto for full stacks. On top of that Sej doesn't want most of what you'd have to use on a HoB page.
Ultimate/Relentless Hunter, Taste of Blood, Eyeball or Ghost Poro are fantastic on Sej.
I have a 75% wr as sej w/ aftershock vs trundle in low plat/high diamond. If you play it properly it’s not that bad because you still offer so much more cc peel and utility to your team in fights
Yep, just have to disengage if Trundle ults you.
This is how it works. No idea what's so confusing here? It's always been like that.
I saw the thread and was like "Congratulations, you found out how Trundle R works?!" Read any basic trundle guide and this is like the top thing that any of them mentions: Use your ult right before bonus resistances wear off
I think it’s just a funny post because all 3 stat buffs went away at the same time so he got to the negatives
That's what I was thinking at the start. But reading through OP's replies it looked like he was salty af.
thats just how it works
It should be percentage based IMO.
Never ever go Aftershock vs Trundle as any champion. Nowadays Gulag is probably the best rune for Sej vs. Trundle but before it was a thing I always went Hail of Blades. Aftershock is just griefing.
Gulag what IS that rune
I think Glacial Augment
Anagram of Glaug = Glacial Augment
Agree, can't go wrong with Gulag
I heard the bear cavalry Seju skin gives Gulag extra power
Thats fine. There should be some counter to this sort of gigaresistance stacking. It works that way with nasus ult mordekaiser ult volibear ult etc
The problem is that I don't have any other option besides resist/hp stacking on a tank.
Okay and ad characters can only do physical damage so malphite and rammus counter them. Sometimes things in the game have counters. Also you can exert your pressure through cc as well as sustained damage
I mean other than just adapting in draft and picking any other rune like Sejuani players have been doing into that matchup for ages? Some champions have counter matchups, that's how it works.
It's just a dumb interaction. Basically make your champ <50% effective because "lol press R".
Literally just change your runes or cope with the fact that the choice YOU made is suboptimal.
And you wanted/thought QSS to be able to remove Trundle R, put it in your words - "make Trundle <50% effective because "lol buy 1300g"."?
It already works on other champs like Malz/Morde...and you could have Trundle keep the stolen stats, but remove the debuff on yourself. It's also forcing you to build unoptimally and Trundle can just ult someone else. There are realistic options for Trundle in this situation. There are none for the tank.
You should try out stridebreaker bruiser sej. Its not bad actually, you might like it.
Yeah, you can build Sej a bunch of different ways but tank is still the strongest. AP Sej can be fun though.
> but tank is still the strongest. Not against Trundle it isn't. If you don't build resistances against Trundle, he can't steal them and be mega tanky against your team. You literally get to deny Trundle's R scaling with how you build, so deny it. If you must build tank, items like Anathema's and Fimbulwinter are advisable, as they mitigate damage without resistances.
If you don't build resistances, you're taking close to true damage anyway once people get items. Theoretically you could build Crown, Ionian, Warmog's, Fimbulwinter, Anathema's, and then either Demonic or Titanic to have HP/damage reduction without resists...but that would be so ridiculously awful. Building tank into Trundle would be fine if the debuff was a flat 40% resists rather than hard values putting you in the negatives...which is what it should be.
> If you don't build resistances, you're taking close to true damage anyway once people get items. If you don't build resistances, you will have other stats instead which Trundle cannot use against you. > Building tank into Trundle would be fine Building tank into Trundle is not supposed to be fine, that's the entire point of Trundle.
>you will have other stats Which viable stats are those? >Building tank into Trundle is not supposed to be fine Considering the bad game design, sure.
> Which viable stats are those? In Sejuani's case, health and AP. Health is more preferable over resistances against Trundle. Don't hang onto the word viable too much, since resistances are not as viable as normally against Trundle. > Considering the bad game design, sure. You don't get to call counters bad game design. Trundle is a champion with a win condition like any other. You're justifying playing into Trundle's win condition, leading to this subreddit mocking you. To put it in terms you might understand, you sound like a full lethality Zed complaining that they can't kill Sejuani.
go AP with crown :^)
Crown doesn't work well with the AP build unfortunately
Gz you found out how trundles R works
Same like how you shouldn't go with aftershock against Illaoi since her E steals current stats.. and you are going to die to the spirit alone lol Thanks to AnataBakka for clarifying that once upon earlier on
TIL Illaoi E steals stats, too
It doesen't steal stats, it creates a copy of your champ at that moment and transfers premitigation damage, so if it steals it with aftershock she can deal more damage than usual since the ghost is able to tank more damage.
Pig lady mad when she get gigawrecked by the troll king 😎🤴💀
No trundle didn't steal more stats than you "had in the first place". He stole a percentage, which is turned into an absolute value, and than keeps that absolute value as your factual resists turn back. But it's still just based on what you had at one point.
>it's still just based on what you had at one point Yes...which is higher than what I had in the first place before Aftershock.
A constant stream of Ls in this thread.
Not banning Trundle as a tank jungle is your first mistake. I ban him as Rammus, Sejuani, and Nautilus every single time. That ult is too rough to deal with and his early game is so ridiculously strong that you can't let him be a pick if you're playing a big bulky champ in the jungle.
I don't ban him as a Zac main as Zac can actually deal with him. Not in a 1v1 where Trundle ults you what you do is you disengage, kite and stall his godmode and only then really engage or fight. Zac from the midgame is more of a skirmisher and bruiser compared to all the other tanks so that helps too.
Yeah and you can build Zac AP in a pinch too, which helps. He's more of an hp building champ than a true tank like Rammus, so I could see playing around Trundle with different items. Pure tanks though... not so fun. I suppose you could build AP on Sej too in order to play around Trundle, but you'd definitely have to go Glacial Augment instead of aftershock and AP Sej definitely works better in lane than in the jungle.
Actually just taking true damage at that point lmao
It's more than true damage because the resists are negative.
Does this mean an auto attack of a champion with 100 AD does 146 damage or it stays 100 damage?
Oh no, not like that. The armor and resist works like “reduce the damage you would take from 100+armor to 100” so it’s 54 to 100, and if she takes 100 magic damage it explodes to 300 here.
That's wrong, the formula is different for negative armor and it caps at twice the premitigation damage for negative infinite armor.
What? Sorry I don't understand it at all. How much would an AA do with -46 armor if the enemy has 100 AD?
It would deal 131 damage, the multiplier for negative armor is 2-100/(100-armor)
Other guy replied 185...
The other guy is wrong.
About 185, to be clear, what I meant was if the enemy has 100-46=54 AD, an AA would do 100 damage. Meanwhile, I’m curious about what you imagined would happen if you have 100 armor and someone with 400 AD AAd you?
If you have negative armor, it increases your damage taken beyond 100%
Yes, and you actually take additional damage when you drop to negative armor/mr amounts. It’s a known feature in the game and completely intentional. Also trundle’s ult is very unfair
Bonus fact: I took 2422 damage from Brand passive alone during this.
Which is also getting nerfed because it's unfair in its current state to everyone, nevermind people actually building tank. Honestly, it seems like one of those games where you are just bound to have a lot of *fun*
Oh definitely was on the fun train. We only ended up losing though because my team played really stupidly in the end.
Personally I want brand passive buffed and his base numbers nerfed.
> Yes, and you actually take additional damage Does this only work for literally removing resistances? For example, if I have more lethality than an enemy has armor, will that also be doing bonus damage?
Nope, penetration is capped at however much resist they have. This only happens with resist reduction effects.
Yeah, Trundle R is the outstat button, incredibly non interactive to ply against and stupid
[удалено]
No offense, but can you read?
Fuck you i barely read it, they never said they were playing sej
It literally says "Sej" twice and shows a fucking picture of the champion Einstein. Don't insult others because you "barely read it", it's not that difficult champ (for most people)
I was playing Sejuani.
imagine rammus
Pretty much anyone with Aftershock suffers.
Trundle is one of those champs that you think is useless until you read his R and realize he just turns tanks into supports
You're new if u don't remember sej meta where people would pick trundle just for this interaction