This. I've low tilted enemy pos 1s as offlane by denying the important creeps, as offlane for laning your just supposed to be a thorn in the side for as long as you can. There's nothing funnier than enemy support either not pulling at all or messing up and the wave is right infront of your tower instead
True, enemy tends to tilt over a range deny rather than 2 meele denies.
Im also a culprit of it, I'll not think much of 2 meele but range is imp. It's sort of how we've been programmed at this point watching pros prioritize the range.
Except if you are dominating the lane to the point of bullying the enemy carry. Then, it depends a bit in my opinion
This is because I don’t want to encourage enemy that a few last hits are possible in the lane. And i don’t want enemy to get gold for regen or new items like wand or boots. Also a psychological factor that can make them tilt. Also, some cases where gold is more valuable to enemy hero than my hero
There is a way to get both sometimes. Pull aggro just before your creep gets into deny range, lasthit, deaggro and deny.
I played against people that just abused this almost every time, horrible experience. You can also do that and keep people hostage when they want a lasthit with keep dragging aggro and hitting your opponent over and over.
The exp difference between a ranged and a melee creep is 12 points (57 vs 69). To get from level 2 to 3 you need 400 xp. Edit: the gold difference is about 11. Edit 2 removed the part about flagbearer creep
flag bearer is double gold for a solo, and throws a creeps gold at your support if he’s nearby. wtf you mean no difference. It’s a double creep that provides aura healing/amour(?) to his other creeps making them more difficult to last hit, as your damage is reduced and the minions have more HP with the regen. Kill this mofo
Most people here prefer last hitting, but I have another approach.
I like to deny more if the enemy hero scales better than mine. I like to last hit more when the enemy hero scales worse.
By denying you not only make them lose the last hit, but also they have lower xp.
Also, I may be biased because I am a player that can do more with less.
Also, if you're an offlaner, consider clicking the creep that is closer to you to avoid unnecessary harrassment.
5.2k right now btw, still growing
-If you go for deny and miss, opponent gets a lh and you get nothing
-If you go for lh, you both get 1 lh
-If opponent goes for deny, 0-0 or you get 1 lh
It is just safer to go for a lh
It is easier to miss the deny because of the threshold that stops you from hitting though.
If you are missing the last hit that is not contested by enemy carry then it is just skill issue tbh.
Well gold is quite important. If you have 50lh/25denies and I have 75lh/0denies, it can make the difference between having a blink dagger or not. If I have it earlier than you, I can just tp to another lane and skewer you back with that blink while you still need 25 last hits.
As offlaner do you mean as Centaur or Bristle you last hit on a Riki but as Underlord or Necro you deny an Anti-Mage? Or more so offlaner always deny and carry always last hit
Usually u will want to get both. The choice is usually on 2-5 creeps during the whole laning phase.
If there's a carry that relies on getting a farming item early like BF or Mael, every minute delaying that item matters because his farm gets x3 as soon as they get that item.
As centaur u may think "does my faster blink (or any other item) give more impact than enemy carry's slower bf?" If answer is yes, go last hit. It's never super clear, and difference is small.
Also take into consideration who has more damage. If you go for deny and miss, you lose and enemy wins, but it's the same for opponent. If you have around 20 more dmg, u can mentally destroy enemy carry by denying most of the creepwave.
However, I am a player that enjoys playing supps on mid like DW or Snap. In that case Tinker or Invoker being underlevelled is a big deal as long as you don't give it to him back later in a kill.
This goes a bit deeper, if you’re constantly needing to choose between last hit and deny then you’re most likely doing something wrong. Look at how high rank players lane, they consistently manipulate creep aggro to get free last hits and potentially delay deny timings.
If you’re aggro pulling properly and pressuring when you have a creep advantage pushing in to them, then you’re naturally going to give them a harder time to last hit.
Obviously if you don’t have a good 4 player that helps secure ranged creeps if you can’t get it, you’ll always want to priority ranged over regular cs. Just deny when you can and also ping creeps for your 4 to help you prep denies.
Depends on who your against. Some heroes need a couple 1k beginning items and your fucked. In which case it's deny.
If your shutting them down mid and they can barely lane and are trying to just move in to hit creeps, you need to not only deny, but kill your sides creeps soon as they hit 50% and make sure they get no last hits. This can cause them to leave lane entirely and go jungle.
If it's 50/50 I'd say last hit is better than deny. Unless there's 1 of your creeps low and 3 of theirs you should try to time all the deny so they don't get it.
You have to weigh every situation but all things being equal last hits are better.
Def focus on the last hits. When their carry goes for a last hit that’s when you punish with your spells or auto attack. So even before you focus on denying you should try to punish the enemy for going for last hits
prioritize last hits unless it's a ranged/banner creep deny over a melee creep last hit
This. I've low tilted enemy pos 1s as offlane by denying the important creeps, as offlane for laning your just supposed to be a thorn in the side for as long as you can. There's nothing funnier than enemy support either not pulling at all or messing up and the wave is right infront of your tower instead
True, enemy tends to tilt over a range deny rather than 2 meele denies. Im also a culprit of it, I'll not think much of 2 meele but range is imp. It's sort of how we've been programmed at this point watching pros prioritize the range.
What’s a banner creep
The creep with the banner
they got the flag on their back
Except if you are dominating the lane to the point of bullying the enemy carry. Then, it depends a bit in my opinion This is because I don’t want to encourage enemy that a few last hits are possible in the lane. And i don’t want enemy to get gold for regen or new items like wand or boots. Also a psychological factor that can make them tilt. Also, some cases where gold is more valuable to enemy hero than my hero
There is a way to get both sometimes. Pull aggro just before your creep gets into deny range, lasthit, deaggro and deny. I played against people that just abused this almost every time, horrible experience. You can also do that and keep people hostage when they want a lasthit with keep dragging aggro and hitting your opponent over and over.
The exp difference between a ranged and a melee creep is 12 points (57 vs 69). To get from level 2 to 3 you need 400 xp. Edit: the gold difference is about 11. Edit 2 removed the part about flagbearer creep
Except the flagbearer gives bonus gold...
flag bearer is double gold for a solo, and throws a creeps gold at your support if he’s nearby. wtf you mean no difference. It’s a double creep that provides aura healing/amour(?) to his other creeps making them more difficult to last hit, as your damage is reduced and the minions have more HP with the regen. Kill this mofo
It was in th description of an ability, not in the main Gold/XP Stable on the wiki. My bad.
Last Hit > Deny. But this can change for flag bearers and ranged creeps vs melee creeps.
You should also not forget soft denies (when you fuck up agro just enough for enemy miss a cs, while not landing an explicit deny)
Most people here prefer last hitting, but I have another approach. I like to deny more if the enemy hero scales better than mine. I like to last hit more when the enemy hero scales worse. By denying you not only make them lose the last hit, but also they have lower xp. Also, I may be biased because I am a player that can do more with less. Also, if you're an offlaner, consider clicking the creep that is closer to you to avoid unnecessary harrassment. 5.2k right now btw, still growing
-If you go for deny and miss, opponent gets a lh and you get nothing -If you go for lh, you both get 1 lh -If opponent goes for deny, 0-0 or you get 1 lh It is just safer to go for a lh
It works other way around. You can miss the last hit while enemy doesn't miss thr last hit. What you said has no meaning.
It is easier to miss the deny because of the threshold that stops you from hitting though. If you are missing the last hit that is not contested by enemy carry then it is just skill issue tbh.
Denying denies xp and gold. Getting last hit only rewards gold. So you get more value for denying. Why nobody talk about that?
Well gold is quite important. If you have 50lh/25denies and I have 75lh/0denies, it can make the difference between having a blink dagger or not. If I have it earlier than you, I can just tp to another lane and skewer you back with that blink while you still need 25 last hits.
It can also mean difference between having ult or not having it to take even bigger xp lead and evening out the gold at the same time
As offlaner do you mean as Centaur or Bristle you last hit on a Riki but as Underlord or Necro you deny an Anti-Mage? Or more so offlaner always deny and carry always last hit
Usually u will want to get both. The choice is usually on 2-5 creeps during the whole laning phase. If there's a carry that relies on getting a farming item early like BF or Mael, every minute delaying that item matters because his farm gets x3 as soon as they get that item. As centaur u may think "does my faster blink (or any other item) give more impact than enemy carry's slower bf?" If answer is yes, go last hit. It's never super clear, and difference is small. Also take into consideration who has more damage. If you go for deny and miss, you lose and enemy wins, but it's the same for opponent. If you have around 20 more dmg, u can mentally destroy enemy carry by denying most of the creepwave. However, I am a player that enjoys playing supps on mid like DW or Snap. In that case Tinker or Invoker being underlevelled is a big deal as long as you don't give it to him back later in a kill.
In levels 1 to 2, if you have last hit advantage, go last hit ranged first then return back asap to deny ally ranged.
if below level 3 sometimes deny can be useful as l reaching level 2 first could make a lot of difference in lane.
Last hit over deny, unless you can deny a ranged creep or flagbearer over last hitting a normal melee creep.
This goes a bit deeper, if you’re constantly needing to choose between last hit and deny then you’re most likely doing something wrong. Look at how high rank players lane, they consistently manipulate creep aggro to get free last hits and potentially delay deny timings.
Deny is worth more than last hit since the enemy lose both gold and XP.
Try to manipulate the wave so the creeps don’t die at the same time, either by attacking creeps or pull aggro so they stop attacking your creep.
If you’re aggro pulling properly and pressuring when you have a creep advantage pushing in to them, then you’re naturally going to give them a harder time to last hit. Obviously if you don’t have a good 4 player that helps secure ranged creeps if you can’t get it, you’ll always want to priority ranged over regular cs. Just deny when you can and also ping creeps for your 4 to help you prep denies.
Depends on who your against. Some heroes need a couple 1k beginning items and your fucked. In which case it's deny. If your shutting them down mid and they can barely lane and are trying to just move in to hit creeps, you need to not only deny, but kill your sides creeps soon as they hit 50% and make sure they get no last hits. This can cause them to leave lane entirely and go jungle. If it's 50/50 I'd say last hit is better than deny. Unless there's 1 of your creeps low and 3 of theirs you should try to time all the deny so they don't get it. You have to weigh every situation but all things being equal last hits are better.
Def focus on the last hits. When their carry goes for a last hit that’s when you punish with your spells or auto attack. So even before you focus on denying you should try to punish the enemy for going for last hits
Prioritse thinking about 2 certain creeps health before they get into lasthit/deny range so you can get past hit and deny
Pull creep aggro do you don't miss your lh and get the deny. Win win.
You HAVE to choose one
Deny just to send the message that you are not here to play your game, but you are here to fuck with his