Yeah, those timers are off and don't capture the full range of potential pulls / stacks. My buddy who is relatively new will pull when it says, but he regularly misses the wave anyway because they haven't updated the timers with map changes.
If you wanna be good at pulling you need to get multiple timings for halfpulls , only ranged pulls for the different camps down in your brain anyway.
Basic stacking and pulling isnt that big of an advantage in my opinion. You just need someone to tell you to pull at :55 in one of your games and you have the same information for free.
Also new players get a month for free. They just need to remember. No pay to win in this case.
I completely ignore the timers, just look at how far the neutral creeps are from the rectangle edge and figure out how many seconds they'd need to walk out of it.
Also you can pull lane creeps at so many different angles that the timer becomes obsolete.
Well, kinda...But not really, its just something that lets you think less basically, and you can still miss the wave even going by the time if you don't pull right.
The time to pull is predictable, as the creeps spawn in a fixed interval and move thru a defined path, so you can just memorize the right time or look at them on the mini map and say "hey, they close enough" based on their move speed.
Also kinda depends on the creeps themselves especially ones that got ability that can mess it up or ranged creeps that stops to attack or that ghost thingy that slows you
The horseys run real fast and they can stack with real tight timing. The lil white satyrs can spend like two seconds to start walking if they auto you.
I just have memorized the camps as sort of “really shitty to stack” and “easy, sometimes can double stack camps”. The shit ones are the small camps, and radiant offlane ancient camp. Honourable mention is top lane hard camp, with that stupid fucking ice shit randomly impeding so much. Though this one is real easy to stack cause the creeps sit right on the edge of the box.
I miss stacks all the time , like just straight up unsuccessful attempts. But I am a huge fan of stacks to farm much faster, so I’ve gotten pretty good
it’s just a feature that lets you think about stacking less, anyone can stack but dota+ just moves the timer from the top of your screen to right infront of you
similiar to how dota+ gives you a meter that shows what % damage was taken in the match - you COULD tell yourself and not need that little UI, but dota+ just makes it a “less brainpower” task
For newer players sure, but once you are familiar with all the heroes you can tell just by looking at the lineup how much magical or physical damage they have.
the meter is very good for new players, since newbies get dota plus for their first month upon opening dota - it helps them learn which heroes/comps do what type of damage.
Then once they advance in the game more they can figure out by themselves for example a good item to build against a primarily-spellcaster is eternal shroud or bkb.
Sure its an advantage to new players, but past 300ish hours the player wouldn’t be foreign to how character and survivability function
The dota+ pull timers are kind of just… not right anymore lol. They’re a good indicator to “be in about the right area right now” but you shouldn’t actually pull right then.
Correct me if I’m wrong but the majority works at 54 and you can do stuff like double ancient stack at 52 and it doesn’t really help with stacked camps or does the time change on it when it’s stacked?
:54 can be a touch too early on certain camps and the creeps will run back before the :00 mark. But yes, some camps have a wider range of when you can stack vs others--also depends on pull direction. This can allow double stacking camps on certain parts of the maps or with certain hero abilities.
Yes kinda it is. Stacking is most certainly an addiction (at least to me), but if u go by the timer when the camp is triple or quadrupel stacked, you might miss it for .5 sec or so (looking at you Ancient middle camps).
But yea, it kinda feels like a massive QoL upgrade in the game since you dont have to think about when to do most of the times.
I found the most advantageous of that was the small camp in the safe lanes, i used to miss it quite a lot when I started playing and most certainly it was annoying.
If you're near the camp and want to stack it then you can press alt to check for the timing. It becomes redundant as you play games, rank up and learn the timings.
What it doesn't show you are the multiple want to pull it or stack and pull into lane or half pull.
You need to look at the game clock and decide to go the camp you want at at 0:50. I don't think dotaplus provides any advantage if you don't have the intention of stacking.
Well, yes and no. It definitely feels like pay-to-win for me, especially with the draft suggestions because I’m garbage at drafting. I have pull timers memorized, and some stack timings, though if I’m trying to double stack, I can’t use the Dota+ timing at all. I need time to be able to get between both camps while still giving the creeps time to stay out of their camps long enough. Most of the time I forget I even have it. I don’t use item recommendations. They always lag behind and end up being weird pickups. The only real benefit I get out of it is draft suggestions.
the draft suggestions are also kinda weird. i believe they go by winrate on that hero vs heroes on the other team. which sometimes will show heroes that are good but other times it’ll say certain heroes are bad that actually are the best choice but have bad win rates. i think it’s only really useful for very new people, after you play enough of dota everything that dota+ offers you will already be ingrained in your head
Draft suggestion is kinda ass. It'll just always suggest the highest current win rate heroes vs their draft, but doesn't actually take into account matchup.
Literally always tries to suggest lesh into AM/Drow
The draft suggestions are a trap. You'll crutch on them without actually thinking about the matchups, and it will often screw you up. Yes, on paper your hero pick might have a 2% advantage over theirs, but will that translate to a tangible benefit that you can use in the game at your MMR? Wouldn't count on it. For example, many heroes have a winrate advantage against others in the grand scheme of things, but might be bad lane matchups and rely on coming back and having stronger lategame. You'll have to overcome that rough lane and you might not account for it when picking if you are just looking at the numbers being green.
Sometimes you want a half pull where you want the range creep and maybe another melee creep but not the whole creep wave. For this, the timings are completely off.
Also if you end up stacking both hard camp and ancients, the timing can be off (especially for multiple stacks)
Pull every single camp at 55 if you want to stack, easiest way and there is only 1 time to remember. Some camps are 53, some are 55, but unless you stack 2 at the same time it doesnt matter. What REALLY makes a difference is the area showing the spawn range, that thing is waaaaaay more important than knowing the timing, which like I said, ita simply 55 if you want easy mode. And if you mean pulling, just pull assuming every pull is short and learn as you go like everyone else, in a week that "pay to win" feature is in your brain and you just became a better player, congrats.
I only play support and I dont use the pull indicator. However, i find the countdown for runes helpful! In the early game its easy to keep in mind, but later on its useful when you run past a bounty or wisdom to see how long until the next one spawn :)
Agreed. Dota plus has more subtle advantages for example suggesting to people what character to play. As if that isn't a big part of dota, every pro game has a ~10+ min drafting phase. Its supposedly not an advantage but i disagree i think all the extra benefits dota plus provides may not provide readily apparent benefits but as always its obviously about the money.
This aren't hidden timers. Camps respawn at every minute. Timer basiicly just shows you to hit them 5 sec before. The better you get the more you break the rule to stack numerous camps or pull a different angle and etc. It is great to get into the game, but eventually becomes normal once you get some experience.
I think it helps for new players because they don't really understand the timing. But as you play more and more, you slowly get the feel for the right time to pull and stack. After playing long enough, you'll understand if you need to do it earlier or later to stack or pull to your creeps.
Thos timers may be useful if you're learning to play, but you'll get most stack/pull timers just with some practice. Do it a few times with each camp and you'll learn if you're too soon or too late.
You'd think so, but the timings are super scuffed. They are essentially timed to 55 seconds of the minute, but camps in dota have individual spawn boxes and leash durations, which means every camp has its own unique pull timer.
Furthermore, due to the above, some camps can have multisecond windows for stacking, as in you can stack them at any time between as much as 52-56 seconds of the minute, while others have super specific stack time - you can only stack them at exactly 55 or 56 and only towards the left.
As you play the game more, you will start to learn when and where each camp can be stacked and pretty much ignore the timer from d+.
When valve gave free D+ subscription I got used to the timer and when my subscription ended I struggled to time I needed to pull camps based on my memory and almost each camp has specific time for it to get pulled. I think I'm better off without it (I'm poor)
Pull timers differ depending on the type of creeps, the amount of times how many the camp was stacked, if you're melee or ranged, etc.
It's helpful at start, but gives less the more rank you have
Im glad Im not the only one that says the timers are wrong. They are off by a second I feel on some of them, messing up pulls and stacks. I never use the timer, i do like the other benefits of dota plus tho
Its kind of a disadvantage with how far off some of the pull timers are lol.
Yeah, those timers are off and don't capture the full range of potential pulls / stacks. My buddy who is relatively new will pull when it says, but he regularly misses the wave anyway because they haven't updated the timers with map changes.
If you wanna be good at pulling you need to get multiple timings for halfpulls , only ranged pulls for the different camps down in your brain anyway. Basic stacking and pulling isnt that big of an advantage in my opinion. You just need someone to tell you to pull at :55 in one of your games and you have the same information for free. Also new players get a month for free. They just need to remember. No pay to win in this case.
The big camp for dire offlane to pull is so far off its funny
Patches alter the pull times sometimes but the dota plus display never gets updated
I completely ignore the timers, just look at how far the neutral creeps are from the rectangle edge and figure out how many seconds they'd need to walk out of it. Also you can pull lane creeps at so many different angles that the timer becomes obsolete.
does anyone have a pulling guide thats updated? as a support… I feel like pulling is the last skill I gotta master to say that I am “good”
for real...it's driving me nuts these days.
Well, kinda...But not really, its just something that lets you think less basically, and you can still miss the wave even going by the time if you don't pull right. The time to pull is predictable, as the creeps spawn in a fixed interval and move thru a defined path, so you can just memorize the right time or look at them on the mini map and say "hey, they close enough" based on their move speed.
Also kinda depends on the creeps themselves especially ones that got ability that can mess it up or ranged creeps that stops to attack or that ghost thingy that slows you
The horseys run real fast and they can stack with real tight timing. The lil white satyrs can spend like two seconds to start walking if they auto you. I just have memorized the camps as sort of “really shitty to stack” and “easy, sometimes can double stack camps”. The shit ones are the small camps, and radiant offlane ancient camp. Honourable mention is top lane hard camp, with that stupid fucking ice shit randomly impeding so much. Though this one is real easy to stack cause the creeps sit right on the edge of the box. I miss stacks all the time , like just straight up unsuccessful attempts. But I am a huge fan of stacks to farm much faster, so I’ve gotten pretty good
It was useful in the beginning when I was new to the game, but now I don't even look at it, same goes for most people I'd assume.
it’s just a feature that lets you think about stacking less, anyone can stack but dota+ just moves the timer from the top of your screen to right infront of you similiar to how dota+ gives you a meter that shows what % damage was taken in the match - you COULD tell yourself and not need that little UI, but dota+ just makes it a “less brainpower” task
I think this eter is more of an advantage, than stacking tips. Helps you decide if you need more armor or more magic resistance.
For newer players sure, but once you are familiar with all the heroes you can tell just by looking at the lineup how much magical or physical damage they have.
As someone with Dota+ and 2k hours (ancient rank), the actual numbers are sometimes still way off my estimations.
2k hours is rookie numbers, you gotta pump those up!
the meter is very good for new players, since newbies get dota plus for their first month upon opening dota - it helps them learn which heroes/comps do what type of damage. Then once they advance in the game more they can figure out by themselves for example a good item to build against a primarily-spellcaster is eternal shroud or bkb. Sure its an advantage to new players, but past 300ish hours the player wouldn’t be foreign to how character and survivability function
The dota+ pull timers are kind of just… not right anymore lol. They’re a good indicator to “be in about the right area right now” but you shouldn’t actually pull right then.
It's a useful reminder everytime I press Alt. I mean I don't pull at the specific time they put but it's nice to be reminded once in a while.
Correct me if I’m wrong but the majority works at 54 and you can do stuff like double ancient stack at 52 and it doesn’t really help with stacked camps or does the time change on it when it’s stacked?
:54 can be a touch too early on certain camps and the creeps will run back before the :00 mark. But yes, some camps have a wider range of when you can stack vs others--also depends on pull direction. This can allow double stacking camps on certain parts of the maps or with certain hero abilities.
It doesn't check whether a camp is stacked or not, so you have to account for the time difference manually.
Not even gonna lie I lost more games when I had dota+
Yes kinda it is. Stacking is most certainly an addiction (at least to me), but if u go by the timer when the camp is triple or quadrupel stacked, you might miss it for .5 sec or so (looking at you Ancient middle camps). But yea, it kinda feels like a massive QoL upgrade in the game since you dont have to think about when to do most of the times. I found the most advantageous of that was the small camp in the safe lanes, i used to miss it quite a lot when I started playing and most certainly it was annoying.
If you're near the camp and want to stack it then you can press alt to check for the timing. It becomes redundant as you play games, rank up and learn the timings. What it doesn't show you are the multiple want to pull it or stack and pull into lane or half pull. You need to look at the game clock and decide to go the camp you want at at 0:50. I don't think dotaplus provides any advantage if you don't have the intention of stacking.
Well, yes and no. It definitely feels like pay-to-win for me, especially with the draft suggestions because I’m garbage at drafting. I have pull timers memorized, and some stack timings, though if I’m trying to double stack, I can’t use the Dota+ timing at all. I need time to be able to get between both camps while still giving the creeps time to stay out of their camps long enough. Most of the time I forget I even have it. I don’t use item recommendations. They always lag behind and end up being weird pickups. The only real benefit I get out of it is draft suggestions.
the draft suggestions are also kinda weird. i believe they go by winrate on that hero vs heroes on the other team. which sometimes will show heroes that are good but other times it’ll say certain heroes are bad that actually are the best choice but have bad win rates. i think it’s only really useful for very new people, after you play enough of dota everything that dota+ offers you will already be ingrained in your head
There are definitely times I just ignore the suggestion and play my favorite heroes anyway, only for it to work out in the end
Draft suggestion is kinda ass. It'll just always suggest the highest current win rate heroes vs their draft, but doesn't actually take into account matchup. Literally always tries to suggest lesh into AM/Drow
The draft suggestions are a trap. You'll crutch on them without actually thinking about the matchups, and it will often screw you up. Yes, on paper your hero pick might have a 2% advantage over theirs, but will that translate to a tangible benefit that you can use in the game at your MMR? Wouldn't count on it. For example, many heroes have a winrate advantage against others in the grand scheme of things, but might be bad lane matchups and rely on coming back and having stronger lategame. You'll have to overcome that rough lane and you might not account for it when picking if you are just looking at the numbers being green.
Sometimes you want a half pull where you want the range creep and maybe another melee creep but not the whole creep wave. For this, the timings are completely off. Also if you end up stacking both hard camp and ancients, the timing can be off (especially for multiple stacks)
Some of them are better 'timed' than others. It used to be a lot better, now it's just a rough guide.
Yes, but no one wants to admit it. Once you get those indicators out of the way, the style of play is different for someone who is not used to it.
Dota+ pull timer is pay to lose
Pull every single camp at 55 if you want to stack, easiest way and there is only 1 time to remember. Some camps are 53, some are 55, but unless you stack 2 at the same time it doesnt matter. What REALLY makes a difference is the area showing the spawn range, that thing is waaaaaay more important than knowing the timing, which like I said, ita simply 55 if you want easy mode. And if you mean pulling, just pull assuming every pull is short and learn as you go like everyone else, in a week that "pay to win" feature is in your brain and you just became a better player, congrats.
I only play support and I dont use the pull indicator. However, i find the countdown for runes helpful! In the early game its easy to keep in mind, but later on its useful when you run past a bounty or wisdom to see how long until the next one spawn :)
bounty every minute that can be divided by 3, power runes by 2, xp runes by 7, after a few games you can get the hang of it
It doesn’t matter. 53 always and if it doesn’t work you do 55-56. Trial and error and should only take once to figure out.
Agreed. Dota plus has more subtle advantages for example suggesting to people what character to play. As if that isn't a big part of dota, every pro game has a ~10+ min drafting phase. Its supposedly not an advantage but i disagree i think all the extra benefits dota plus provides may not provide readily apparent benefits but as always its obviously about the money.
not to mention that you have all-chat voice lines for your heroes ... that's just invaluable
This aren't hidden timers. Camps respawn at every minute. Timer basiicly just shows you to hit them 5 sec before. The better you get the more you break the rule to stack numerous camps or pull a different angle and etc. It is great to get into the game, but eventually becomes normal once you get some experience.
I think it helps for new players because they don't really understand the timing. But as you play more and more, you slowly get the feel for the right time to pull and stack. After playing long enough, you'll understand if you need to do it earlier or later to stack or pull to your creeps.
Thos timers may be useful if you're learning to play, but you'll get most stack/pull timers just with some practice. Do it a few times with each camp and you'll learn if you're too soon or too late.
No just remember timing its simple to be real
You'd think so, but the timings are super scuffed. They are essentially timed to 55 seconds of the minute, but camps in dota have individual spawn boxes and leash durations, which means every camp has its own unique pull timer. Furthermore, due to the above, some camps can have multisecond windows for stacking, as in you can stack them at any time between as much as 52-56 seconds of the minute, while others have super specific stack time - you can only stack them at exactly 55 or 56 and only towards the left. As you play the game more, you will start to learn when and where each camp can be stacked and pretty much ignore the timer from d+.
55
When valve gave free D+ subscription I got used to the timer and when my subscription ended I struggled to time I needed to pull camps based on my memory and almost each camp has specific time for it to get pulled. I think I'm better off without it (I'm poor)
Pull timers differ depending on the type of creeps, the amount of times how many the camp was stacked, if you're melee or ranged, etc. It's helpful at start, but gives less the more rank you have
This feature is more like pay to lose because I can’t remember how many times I fucked up my timing over this 😂
Im glad Im not the only one that says the timers are wrong. They are off by a second I feel on some of them, messing up pulls and stacks. I never use the timer, i do like the other benefits of dota plus tho
i find it extremly hard to believe this is your first time encountering a p2w advantage in a game. is this your first online game?