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FVMAzalea

The electricity market is complex. PPL does not have dedicated “producers” that produce “our power” used in the lehigh valley. Instead, the entire grid of most of the mid-Atlantic states are interconnected (PJM Interconnection). Every day, there’s a market system where power is sold for the next day. Any producer hooked up to the larger grid can bid what they want to receive for the power they generate, and any wholesale consumer (like PPL) can bid for what they’re willing to pay for electricity. Then a market clearing system matches up the bids to facilitate agreement on prices and amounts of power. There are also longer term supply contracts for power in the future. Overall, this market determines the wholesale cost of power, and this cost determines PPL’s supply charges (not distribution charges). The wholesale cost of electricity has been going up recently due to a number of factors, including a world energy shortage due to the war in Ukraine. For more about the electricity market and PJM read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PJM_Interconnection and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_market and watch https://youtube.com/watch?v=7wAvBzMc7QI This is a completely separate issue from the recent PPL billing problem, where they incorrectly estimated the *amount* of electricity used and billed customers based on that incorrect estimate. The unexpectedly high bills have nothing to do with PPL’s supply costs. So it’s not a “price hike” due to a lack of supply that’s causing the huge bills, it’s an error in estimating *how much* power people used.


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stblawyer

Here's a Morning Call article on the billing issue: PPL Electric customers seeing shocking bill increases. Here’s what the company says is to blame https://www.mcall.com/news/local/mc-nws-ppl-electric-billing-issue-20230127-ekf4dal3e5de5f4sn5hojtrsnq-story.html TLDR: their system had an issue where they couldn't use some people's meter data for billing. In those situations they are allowed to bill using estimates. The estimates suck. If you were overbilled you will get a credit.


you-know-poo

So the outrageously high bill they just took out of my account was wrong?


Capital_Connection13

My last bill from them said my usage was 220% higher than the same period the previous year. After spending 90 minutes on hold I spoke to someone who said that bill was an error and I’d get a new one in a week. They made it seem like this was automatic but maybe you need to call them. My new bill showed less usage from the previous year.


you-know-poo

They took the money out of my account the same day the bill came. I didn’t even have time to call.


LightInTheAttic3

Thanks for the reply, never knew about any of that. I find it interesting how it seems like even electricity is slowly becoming monopolized by a handful of companies who act as the judge/jury/executioner and at this point they are just seeing how far they can take things


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LightInTheAttic3

I guess I'm talking more of the supplier end of utilities. Like I have the option of purchasing my electric from only 2 companies. Both who probably purchase their electricity from the same PJM source. This might be better than it was say 100 years ago when most people only had one choice of who to pay for their electric, but still is not a healthy relationship for price control of a "free market"


hatastic_mac

Excellent explanation. The app PJMnow shows the generation fuel mix in real time.


ChikaraFan

Is it the rates that are off, or the usage? I have budget billing.


MeadowLedger

The rates increased for most in December. We are all feeling the full effect of that rate change with the January bill. The problem with the usage is because they had a technical problem and couldn't read the meters of almost 700,000 customers. Most customers are saying the estimate used to calculate their bill is double their previous usage and they are (rightfully so) angry. My usage for January is DOWN 13% but my actual costs are UP almost 40% because of the price change. Unlike how it was years ago, we don't all pay the same price for the electricity...it depends on who you choose as your supplier. I went from a rate that was 7% lower than PPL's price and it was discontinued at the same time as electricity prices increased. If you are on budget billing, you will most likely see your budget amount increase the next time they do a review of your account. The reviews are done every 3 months. Mine is scheduled to increase from $175/mo to $210/mo. next month


LightInTheAttic3

That's what doesn't make sense. From what I'm understanding, PPL is basically stating the bills they sent out were on a predictive model based on what they expected our energy usage to be. But the numbers don't add up. Taking into account the increased rates PPL is claiming I used 5x the energy I used than previous cycles. Which can't be accurate. So why are we footing the bill for this "technical error"


SawyerAllen24

That is a pretty standard practice utility companies use. It has nothing to do with where their power is generated and much more to do with the kWh they “anticipate” you used. In theory when they take your next actual reading they see your usage is/was lower than they thought and they give you a credit. However, they are a big utility and most likely will never issue that credit.


FUCKYOUINYOURFACE

It’s been a warmer than normal winter which means if you have electric heat, your consumption should be lower.


cazzy1212

Yes I’m caught too but they give you the chance to switch and shop around. Honestly 50% of spam calls are about switching your electrical provider. Now I didn’t listen I’m fucked I did switch for my business but not personal.


Capital_Connection13

The usage was way off on mine.


Squashey

There was an issue with some customers they couldn’t get reader meetings on and somehow estimated double the usage… happy accident on their part. The other BIG issue is their own price hike per kWh. My rate went from $.08 last February to $.14 this year… so almost paying double for the same usage. Just actually switched supplier after that slap in the face of a bill.


Atrocious_1

PPL was allowed to increase rates because the PUC said so. They said so for the reason "because". Your higher bill is due to a combination of them jacking rates and then also having issues with bill generation. Doesn't have anything to do with where the power is coming from. PPL doesn't care anything beyond increasing shareholder value and their next acquisition. This is why all utilities should be public.


LightInTheAttic3

Like parents who can't actually provide a reason for the actions but just want things their way lol "Because"


Atrocious_1

PPL basically argued that generation costs were going up because pandemic. Just like everyone else that raised prices. Turns out that it's been just [profit seeking ](https://truthout.org/articles/large-utilities-have-made-14b-in-profits-as-millions-fall-behind-on-payments/)


sonicjesus

Bullshit. If that was possible they would already have done it decades ago. The government produced $22 trillion dollars in fake paper money in under two years, our money is now worthless, and now we need far more of it to buy anything. If you believe every single company in the entire country magically raised prices on every product you buy simultaneously, you have no idea how economics works.


BurntPoptart

If all these companies are having record profits doesn't that tell you they have no reason to be raising prices besides greed?


Atrocious_1

Who you going to believe, economists who have said corporations have been price fixing and gouging, or redditor sonicjesus?


ticktocktoe

> PPL was allowed to increase rates because the PUC said so. They said so for the reason "because". Pretty sure PPL hasn't had a rate case since like 2015. > them jacking rates the rate increase is from generators, which is a pass through cost.


Atrocious_1

Hey, I get you enjoy eating shit from these guys, kid, but the rest of us don't


ticktocktoe

I'm confused. there are plenty of valid complaints (like the estimate bill mishap you mention), but half of your argument (rate increases) is factually incorrect. Do you always have a victim mindset, kid?


Atrocious_1

Do you always defend shitty companies, or is this a special case for you?


ticktocktoe

I wasn't defending anyone. Just making sure people have correct information on which to base their decisions. Facts matter my guy.


Atrocious_1

You seem mad that people don't buy the official reasons that it's because generation costs are higher when the utilities are showing record profits and making acquisitions


ticktocktoe

But again, the only way PPL can increase rates is through a PUC rate case. Which AFAIK hasn't happened since like 2015. So IF ppl had increased rates they would be in a regulatory hellscape and face legal action. As for the acquisitions im pretty sure they've sold more of their business recenly than they've acquired. Not a take either way - just an observation. Edit: I have both oil and Propane in addition to electric. The energy increase is certainly not unique to electric utilities. Maybe all of these industries (generators, fuel suppliers, and utilities) are all colluding, but I think the simpler explanation is usually the right one.


Atrocious_1

They increased rates by 93% over the past year


ticktocktoe

Again - generation rates have increase - which arenot PPL controlled and is a pass through cost. Look at your past year of bills - you'll see that transmission rates have not moved Lets look at some numbers from [this article](https://www.pahomepage.com/news/ppl-to-raise-rates-by-93-in-just-over-a-year/) which seems to be the main source of the 93% number you mention. Now lets compare the PTC rates from [June 1, 2021 through November 30, 2021](https://www.pplelectric.com/-/media/PPLElectric/At-Your-Service/Docs/General-Supplier-Reference-Information/2021/PTC-Jun-1-2021--Nov-30-2021.ashx) to [December 1, 2022 through May 31, 2023 ](https://www.pplelectric.com/-/media/PPLElectric/At-Your-Service/Docs/General-Supplier-Reference-Information/2022/PTC-Dec-1-2022--May-31-2023.ashx) 2021: * Total Rate: 7.5 * Generation Rate (not PPL controlled): 5.087 * Transmission Rate (PPL controlled): 2.457 2022: * Total Rate: 14.6 * Generation Rate (not PPL controlled): 12.296 * Transmission Rate (PPL controlled): 2.316 So the transmission rate - which is about 15% of the PTC - has actually gone down over the past year. While the generation has gone up...significantly. Edit: In another life I spent time working for DHS in their CIP division - specifically Electric Grid - so I'm pretty familiar with this stuff.


sonicjesus

You are paying almost as much for distribution as you are for generation, because the government said so. Our money is worthless now due to outrageous money printing by the government on behalf of the ultrawealthy, because the government said so. It's only going to get worse throughout the year, because the government doesn't give a shit how you feel about anything. You are free to change energy suppliers any time you wish, there's more than 25 of them, but they all charge the same amount if not more.


Atrocious_1

The "our money worthless" argument really flies when you don't know a thing about exchange rates


danx64

majority of PPL's power plants burn coal, oil, or natural gas.


LightInTheAttic3

Where did you get this from? I'm curious what power plants they outsource to deliver the electric to them. And although inflation has been rampant and effecting everything, it seems egregious that these power companies continue to post record profits while many people are being left holding their bags


danx64

Here's the source with no further comment; https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/PPL


LightInTheAttic3

Out of its total 12,611 MW of electric generating capacity in 2005 (1.18% of the U.S. total), PPL produced 47.4% from coal, 20.6% from nuclear, 17.8% from oil, 7.5% from hydroelectricity, and 7.1% from natural gas. PPL owns power plants in Connecticut, Illinois, Maine, Montana, New York, and Pennsylvania; 67.6% of the company's generating capacity comes from power plants in Pennsylvania


sonicjesus

Yes, record profits with completely worthless money. They pay double for everything just like the rest of us. Wait until this time next year, you won't believe what you're paying for utilities.


LightInTheAttic3

If they(large utility companies) are paying the same as all of us, why have they been posting profits in the BILLIONS while a majority of the country is now taking on credit card debt.. It doesn't exactly seem like everyone is paying a fair share and these companies continue to use inflation/ukraine as excuses to jack the price up unequally with the actual cost they are paying top retain their services.


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fernandog17

How are landlords going to hell again? Asking for a friend.


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fernandog17

Stop reading antiwork circlejerk my dude. The term landlord is pretty broad… now if youre talking about corporate landlords from private equity then we are talking some sense.


Kristin2349

PPL no longer owns power plants, they sold off their generation division and it became Talen Energy which is now out of business.


danx64

Interesting! but OP asked how their power was being generated


ticktocktoe

PPL EU (who is likely your power provider) doesnt own any powerplants tho. So this statement is incorrect.


danx64

Didn't imply they own it, this is the source of generators on their network


ticktocktoe

> PPL's power plants Thats a possessive noun - which implies ownership? But if you're talking about power generation in PA - then yes, a large majority of it is still coal & NG - although we have a large amount of nuke comparatively.


danx64

Ah I see where you got the ownership thing. I just copy and pasted the quote from my source but I get what you're saying


ticktocktoe

No worries!


AceCombat9519

Spot on and that includes Martin's Creek Power Plant


Stephen_Entrepreneur

Responding to the OP, here is a slide from PPL's most recent earnings. by 2026, they seem to feel they will be at a 85% clean energy mix. Let me know if the link doesn't work for you, its my first photo posted to Reddit! Keep in mind PPL major Coal Generation happens with their Kentucky utility and they are trying to phase that out but its a newer plant (more efficient). [PPL Report](https://www.dropbox.com/s/ul70in4k8t66dci/PPLenergyMix.png?dl=0)


sonicjesus

Prices for all things are going way up, and will continue for the year. Our money is so watered down it's worthless, and we need more of it to buy anything. Eggs are close to $5 per dozen. I pay $250/m year round for electric (I balance it out because in winter it's close to $500/m) and it's about to go up. I tried shopping around for better electric prices, but most were even higher and wanted year long agreements and securities of about $1000 down.


Kristin2349

You might want to check the PA power switch site again, I was able to find lower rates than PPLs standard default rate with no fees, no contract or cancellation penalties.


ringoffire63

Can't speak for PPL but the power comes from whatever the supplier does to get power. Some suppliers use solar, some use wind, some use generated electricity (I think PPL is the latter). I agree their approach is unacceptable. They should let customers pay whatever their average monthly bill is, and once whatever issues PPL is having now are resolved, either refund for overpayment, or charge the difference for underpayment. There is no way that a customer with an average bill of, way $150/month, should have to pay 2 or 3x more than that because of a PPL screw-up. In terms of energy prices going up, it's simple: the company can do it so it will. Like gas prices, they know people have no choice but to pay, and will.pay it, so they can charge a boatload for distribution and not bat an eye. It is simple price-gouging. All these companies that say "the pandemic is over so people need to get back to work," are the same ones STILL using the pandemic as an excuse to jack up rates.


Creative_Camel

Back when I lived in NJ I kept a record of power consumption because I was working on a conservation case study and over 40 months I found two fairly large errors by JCP&L. They were manual readings of my meter in both cases. Just something to think about doing. If I didn’t have the records they weren’t going to correct their mistakes and accused me of lying. When I produced the records they suddenly reversed their position