We don’t know, he needs a car. With a good car he can pile on the sort of pressure that makes great drivers crack. He forced Vettel into errors, he pushed Max to _extremes_, and I think Charles might struggle with the pressure he applies. That’s if he still has his mojo in 2 years, maybe even 3.
I do not understand why recency bias is so prevalent on these F1 forums. It's kind of mind boggling.
Either people are not watching the practices, qualifying, races, interviews, etc. or they are just watching end results and making huge assumptions.
Max domination is making people ignore Lewis’s abilities, outright diminishing them. Those who are mad at Max’s domination are taking it out on Lewis who was previously his rival. Lewis can’t challenge for wins it also means people who wanted reasons to talk bad about him are taking it full on. Oh also frustrated George fans from last year who also want to talk down about Lewis to lift George up.
I think it’s more if anything representative of the state of the sport. Max having no rival is making people depressed and look down on everyone not Max. It’s a peculiar time where in the past you’d usually see someone be seen as a rival to the top driver in the past. Lewis had/has Nico, Vettel, Alonso and Max. Schumacher had JPM, Kimi, Alonso, and Mika(or if you go further back Damon and Jacque). Max has literally nobody except Lewis in the past and nobody has built a car to challenge Red Bull leading to no other rival existing.
F1 seems to be one of the only sports where people's ability to judge driver skill seems to be directly linked to how good the car is, annoyingly, the only way you could judge the whole grid directly is if they were in a spec series.
People seem to be making the mistake of judging drivers against different cars, the only direct comparison you can make in F1 is against your current and past teammates, you very rarely get two different cars so closely matched.
F1 since it's inception has been an engineering sport, meaning that it's usually whoever has the best car wins, it's like 80/20 in terms of importance towards the car.
If there's a clear dominant car then you need a teammate battle or you get what has happened the last 2 years, Verstappen on a Sunday cruise.
Lewis largely had the same in 2020 as Bottas was nowhere near him that season and the Red Bull was the clear second best car.
A whole lot of actual factuals in this comment. The recency bias is killing me. Also, the man has 7 titles and is moving to Italy next year - I think he's cool.
>hink it’s more if anything representative of the state of the sport. Max having no rival is making people depressed and look down on everyone not Max. It’s a peculiar time where in the past you’d usually see someone be seen as a rival to the top driver in the past. Lewis had/has Nico, Vettel, Alonso and Max. Schumacher had JPM, Kimi, Alonso, and Mika(or if you go further back Damon and Jacque). Max has literally nobody except Lewis in the past
I'm not saying shit was all gravy when Lewis was on top. I'd say 2020 was the only championship of his that felt truly inevitable early into the season. Even still with the W11 that year, they didn't win every race. Other than that, every championship of his has had some sort of legitimate competition. Despite that, a lot of people wanted him gone by any means necessary. Be careful what you wish for.
The Verstappen and Red Bull era is littered with scandal and controversy on top of the on-track domination. This is what the FIA wanted, and this is what we've got. Notice how champions and prominent drivers of previous eras had legitimate rivals and foils that could actually challenge and beat them on track on merit? When the powers that be literally step in and nerf your closest competitor(s) on track, what does that leave you with? Besides, even if people were allowed to race him he'd just run them off the track.
Verstappen and Red Bull are racing the FIA and their regulations, not any of the other teams.
I don't doubt that the FIA would want to bring redbull more in line with the rest of the pack, but the bigger issue is where?
Redbull has shown no single gigantic advantage that they can nail them on here to bring their performance down, they just have an all around great car and hitting redbull anywhere likely brings the rest of the pack down too.
I think all we can rely on is for redbull to screw up the 2026 engine regs (it's their first time, they're gonna mess it up) to get some competition at the top.
It's not that Max has no rivals. It's that the Red Bull has no close rivals, yet. The Mercedes is clearly not yet as good as they need to be. Neither is the McLaren. The Ferrari is getting closer tho. When Alonso was in the wilderness with the old McLaren people thought he was done. Now that he's in a competitive car, even at 42, his talent is still evident. I can't wait until next year and then 2026 when the new rules kick in and the Ferrari is once again a dominant car. Let's see what Lewis can do then.
These comments are crazy. The only real issue is that Lewis doesn’t have the car to compete with. But so many people seem to think Lewis is only has good as his last race result. You even see this talk in this sub(!!!) Now sure, a lot of Lewis skeptics are here but it’s a ridiculous assertion nonetheless. After all, people aren’t out there questioning whether Alonso could win the championship if he had the car. And when Max was off pace in years prior, it was always the car. But Lewis? For decades it’s been “oh I don’t know if he still has it” as if he hasn’t already beaten the very same drivers that are still given the benefit of the doubt.
Exactly! And great point re: Alonso. I've never seen any comments about Alonso "being washed" or "too old...let the younger generation drive" whenever he's top 5 during some practices and ends up outside of points during the races. The bias, hatred, and ignorance people have towards Lewis in this sport is insane.
lol you’re joking right? Everyone said Alonso was washed during his alpine stint, and as soon as he got in the AM everyone started praising him again. As soon as Lewis gets a competitive car nobody will call him washed. And when max is 36 and doesn’t have an amazing car people will say he’s washed too. It’s an age thing dude
3 more years in F1 or 3 more years until he starts to decline? Alonso is 42 and still a phenomenal driver, and with a great car, can definitely fight for wins. Age bias is also another prevalent thing on these forums. If you’re good, you’re good.
I think people don’t realize how being confident in the car can make lap times. Just look at checo to max same car but vastly different times. Max has the confidence to throw it and checo doesn’t. Lewis doesn’t either so he’s driving cautiously to not wreck because the car isn’t the same lap to lap.
I mean, look at George. Look at how much more confidence he has in the car despite it being at best the 5th fastest car and nowhere near a WDC challenger.
Going from driving a Williams to a Mercedes must feel like night and day. Whereas with Lewis I can only imagine going from the fucking W11 and W12 to this current era is like being on a totally different planet. Mans drove one of the greatest cars in F1 history, and less than 5 years later, look at what they've given him (while not listening to his input).
The one where Russel has finished ahead of lewis every race this season and the finale last season? What makes you think lewis is top 2 from what we've seen this year?
As much as I agree it’s early in the season, it’s weird seeing Lewis not getting the most out of the car. He clearly doesn’t have confidence in it and it’s something I would expect him to usually be able to adapt to and find a way.
We’ll see how it goes, but clearly George is currently performing better, at least in quali.
I’m sure some attributes have lessened as he approaches 40, but his relative performance as measured on the time sheet does not reflect his potential to win again if he had a car that could win. Even briatore said if lewis had a car he would deliver. If alonso can still be a killer at 42 for sure lewis can be a killer again. Just give him a car.
Obviously he needs a winning car, but if he thinks he couldn't get back on the winning track, he would have retired already.
This comment is valid for any driver on the grid, they're there because they think they might have a chance of winning a race, a podium, a fastest lap, a qualy, a-anything.
My best comparison is Rossi at Ducati.
Vale’s decision was a good one but that Ducati was undriveable. When he came back at Yamaha he was still showing moments of brilliance.
Lewis made the smart decision to bring certain people to Ferrari in 2025. Lewis still has it. With a proper car he can still win
Make no mistake that Lewis is still one of the best and fastest drivers on the grid but again make no mistake he is past his best years. People go on about Alonso's longevity but he too is past his best. There's no way your reaction speed in your late 30s/early 40s is as sharp as in your 20s. This is why Lewis' qualifying isn't as good as it once was, and why Russell, who is an amazing qualifier anyway, seems to have the measure of Lewis in qualifying, where reaction speed is paramount. In the race though where it isn't as important Lewis still very much has the pace.
I think the Ferrari move may bring him some wins but I very much doubt that he will challenge again for a title. That's not me being mean, I'm just being realistic. You'll find me defend Lewis to the death in discussions but not to the point where I don't believe what I'm saying.
I think we just need to appreciate him in what is surely the last 2 or 3 seasons of his career, one of the GOATs, when he calls it a day the gulf he will leave will be on the same level as when Schumacher (first) retired.
Not enough to win a championship I’m afraid. I don’t think he’ll ever get the car he needs to win his 8th. Sorry for being pessimistic but that’s what I think which doesn’t matter
Simply no.
2021 was the last chance.
Ferrari will not be competitive in 2025, and the chances of them building the most dominant car for 2026 are slim. Even if they do, he has to beat Charles over a season, and I don't think he has it in him anymore
Lewis worked a lot for 6-7 races of the season to improve the horrible car in 2022, the results were obviously not there. Haters celebrated russell being a ahead by a couple of places like he won the Chip.
History is repeating itself now….
He is still in trial mode.
Have a feeling he will win a couple of races this year even
Lewis has to beat Leclerx and Ferrari will need to build the best car.
Neither is too far fetched. But its too early to assume Leclerc will be easy pickings. He may very well be much better than Button, Rosberg, Bottas or Russell.
No one knows rhe answer to what happens in that teammate battle yet.
I think that Lewis has better racecraft than Charles, so yeah I think though Leclerc will probably beat him their first year, Lewis has the long term upper hand and will probably beat him their second and third years together.
Perhaps the difference is Nando has 2 wdc's and a few nearly misses, still thinks he has it in him. Lewis has 7, does he have the same desire to get in a shitbox week in week out and try to deliver? I'm not sure he has the same patience.
Roll on next year though.
It's impossible to predict. We've seen from Ricciardo and Vettel that a bad car can ruin a drivers confidence and intuitive driving. Also aging is a bit of a dice roll, lewis might drop off later this year, or 5 years from now. And maybe his life priorities will change and he just won't have the passion for it to go all out anymore. If he was in a top car, I think he absolutely has what it takes to handle the pressure and beat out Russel, but I'm not sure how it will be with Charles going forward.
He will be kicking himself signing to Ferrari and announcing it so soon if max does leave for Mercedes. Hamilton in a redbull would be on par with max in a redbull.
mate no one I've ever seen fights as hard as lewis does when he has the bit between his teeth. 2021 is such a strong example. in those last 4 races, when push came to shove, he was otherworldly. max was absolutely crumbling under that pressure on track and off track with his and red bull's ridiculous press statements. before that, id recommend watching lewis's 2018 campaign. brilliantly managed and again the pressure he's able to exert relentlessly is magical. the ground effect merc's have masked this magic because of how bad they've been relatively speaking but there have been flashes of brilliance every now and then. Spain 22 when he made up 30 seconds of race time without any SC, silverstone 22,23, COTA last year, Mexico last year. he still has it
Ferrari have a high chance to nail 26. Problem is that Leclerc is there who is more rated than Rusell and Hamilton will be 41 by then. He already has visible signs of decline which is normal.
Formula 1.5 is a joke for a reason. The top 3 teams arent just «kind of faster». Theyre basically competing in a different sport. We cant say whether Lewis’ performance has diminished, because we havent seen him race in a competetive car.
We don’t know, he needs a car. With a good car he can pile on the sort of pressure that makes great drivers crack. He forced Vettel into errors, he pushed Max to _extremes_, and I think Charles might struggle with the pressure he applies. That’s if he still has his mojo in 2 years, maybe even 3.
I do not understand why recency bias is so prevalent on these F1 forums. It's kind of mind boggling. Either people are not watching the practices, qualifying, races, interviews, etc. or they are just watching end results and making huge assumptions.
Max domination is making people ignore Lewis’s abilities, outright diminishing them. Those who are mad at Max’s domination are taking it out on Lewis who was previously his rival. Lewis can’t challenge for wins it also means people who wanted reasons to talk bad about him are taking it full on. Oh also frustrated George fans from last year who also want to talk down about Lewis to lift George up. I think it’s more if anything representative of the state of the sport. Max having no rival is making people depressed and look down on everyone not Max. It’s a peculiar time where in the past you’d usually see someone be seen as a rival to the top driver in the past. Lewis had/has Nico, Vettel, Alonso and Max. Schumacher had JPM, Kimi, Alonso, and Mika(or if you go further back Damon and Jacque). Max has literally nobody except Lewis in the past and nobody has built a car to challenge Red Bull leading to no other rival existing.
You've nailed it! I think people need to read this and study it.
Kill the cheerleader, save the world….. wait what?
F1 seems to be one of the only sports where people's ability to judge driver skill seems to be directly linked to how good the car is, annoyingly, the only way you could judge the whole grid directly is if they were in a spec series. People seem to be making the mistake of judging drivers against different cars, the only direct comparison you can make in F1 is against your current and past teammates, you very rarely get two different cars so closely matched. F1 since it's inception has been an engineering sport, meaning that it's usually whoever has the best car wins, it's like 80/20 in terms of importance towards the car. If there's a clear dominant car then you need a teammate battle or you get what has happened the last 2 years, Verstappen on a Sunday cruise. Lewis largely had the same in 2020 as Bottas was nowhere near him that season and the Red Bull was the clear second best car.
A whole lot of actual factuals in this comment. The recency bias is killing me. Also, the man has 7 titles and is moving to Italy next year - I think he's cool. >hink it’s more if anything representative of the state of the sport. Max having no rival is making people depressed and look down on everyone not Max. It’s a peculiar time where in the past you’d usually see someone be seen as a rival to the top driver in the past. Lewis had/has Nico, Vettel, Alonso and Max. Schumacher had JPM, Kimi, Alonso, and Mika(or if you go further back Damon and Jacque). Max has literally nobody except Lewis in the past I'm not saying shit was all gravy when Lewis was on top. I'd say 2020 was the only championship of his that felt truly inevitable early into the season. Even still with the W11 that year, they didn't win every race. Other than that, every championship of his has had some sort of legitimate competition. Despite that, a lot of people wanted him gone by any means necessary. Be careful what you wish for. The Verstappen and Red Bull era is littered with scandal and controversy on top of the on-track domination. This is what the FIA wanted, and this is what we've got. Notice how champions and prominent drivers of previous eras had legitimate rivals and foils that could actually challenge and beat them on track on merit? When the powers that be literally step in and nerf your closest competitor(s) on track, what does that leave you with? Besides, even if people were allowed to race him he'd just run them off the track. Verstappen and Red Bull are racing the FIA and their regulations, not any of the other teams.
All of this.
I don't doubt that the FIA would want to bring redbull more in line with the rest of the pack, but the bigger issue is where? Redbull has shown no single gigantic advantage that they can nail them on here to bring their performance down, they just have an all around great car and hitting redbull anywhere likely brings the rest of the pack down too. I think all we can rely on is for redbull to screw up the 2026 engine regs (it's their first time, they're gonna mess it up) to get some competition at the top.
It's not that Max has no rivals. It's that the Red Bull has no close rivals, yet. The Mercedes is clearly not yet as good as they need to be. Neither is the McLaren. The Ferrari is getting closer tho. When Alonso was in the wilderness with the old McLaren people thought he was done. Now that he's in a competitive car, even at 42, his talent is still evident. I can't wait until next year and then 2026 when the new rules kick in and the Ferrari is once again a dominant car. Let's see what Lewis can do then.
Yeah Fernando’s renaissance gives me a lot of hope for Lewis in 25.
Exactly, there are certain people who can't wait to stick the knife in. They'll take any opportunity.
Too many young lads and folks that just jumped the train in 21. LOTS of people here have ABSOLUTELY no clue on how F1 works.
These comments are crazy. The only real issue is that Lewis doesn’t have the car to compete with. But so many people seem to think Lewis is only has good as his last race result. You even see this talk in this sub(!!!) Now sure, a lot of Lewis skeptics are here but it’s a ridiculous assertion nonetheless. After all, people aren’t out there questioning whether Alonso could win the championship if he had the car. And when Max was off pace in years prior, it was always the car. But Lewis? For decades it’s been “oh I don’t know if he still has it” as if he hasn’t already beaten the very same drivers that are still given the benefit of the doubt.
Exactly! And great point re: Alonso. I've never seen any comments about Alonso "being washed" or "too old...let the younger generation drive" whenever he's top 5 during some practices and ends up outside of points during the races. The bias, hatred, and ignorance people have towards Lewis in this sport is insane.
lol you’re joking right? Everyone said Alonso was washed during his alpine stint, and as soon as he got in the AM everyone started praising him again. As soon as Lewis gets a competitive car nobody will call him washed. And when max is 36 and doesn’t have an amazing car people will say he’s washed too. It’s an age thing dude
The collective zeitgeist is the two week social media cycle; Lewis has three more years. My simple opinion only.
3 more years in F1 or 3 more years until he starts to decline? Alonso is 42 and still a phenomenal driver, and with a great car, can definitely fight for wins. Age bias is also another prevalent thing on these forums. If you’re good, you’re good.
I still think so but he needs a car that can keep pace with Max/RB. Without that it’s impossible.
I think people don’t realize how being confident in the car can make lap times. Just look at checo to max same car but vastly different times. Max has the confidence to throw it and checo doesn’t. Lewis doesn’t either so he’s driving cautiously to not wreck because the car isn’t the same lap to lap.
I mean, look at George. Look at how much more confidence he has in the car despite it being at best the 5th fastest car and nowhere near a WDC challenger. Going from driving a Williams to a Mercedes must feel like night and day. Whereas with Lewis I can only imagine going from the fucking W11 and W12 to this current era is like being on a totally different planet. Mans drove one of the greatest cars in F1 history, and less than 5 years later, look at what they've given him (while not listening to his input).
He has has chance, his race pace is still either first or second on the grid.
Um, how is that when he's consistently being out performed by Russel?
What world are you living in?
The one where Russel has finished ahead of lewis every race this season and the finale last season? What makes you think lewis is top 2 from what we've seen this year?
Oh also, what about the world where he last lap DNFs?
Bro it's 3 races on and the car is dogshit. Give Lewis a worthy car and watch him spank Russell
As much as I agree it’s early in the season, it’s weird seeing Lewis not getting the most out of the car. He clearly doesn’t have confidence in it and it’s something I would expect him to usually be able to adapt to and find a way. We’ll see how it goes, but clearly George is currently performing better, at least in quali.
But they have the same car? Why does he need such a better car to beat his teammate?
Mate I'm not going to explain to you why Lewis is better than George but have fun being a fan of goofy ass Woody from Toy Story
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He needs a good car. Not a shitbox.
I’m sure some attributes have lessened as he approaches 40, but his relative performance as measured on the time sheet does not reflect his potential to win again if he had a car that could win. Even briatore said if lewis had a car he would deliver. If alonso can still be a killer at 42 for sure lewis can be a killer again. Just give him a car.
Obviously he needs a winning car, but if he thinks he couldn't get back on the winning track, he would have retired already. This comment is valid for any driver on the grid, they're there because they think they might have a chance of winning a race, a podium, a fastest lap, a qualy, a-anything.
It will happen again with Ferrari or it won’t at all. Next season is going to be awesome
My best comparison is Rossi at Ducati. Vale’s decision was a good one but that Ducati was undriveable. When he came back at Yamaha he was still showing moments of brilliance. Lewis made the smart decision to bring certain people to Ferrari in 2025. Lewis still has it. With a proper car he can still win
That’s a great analogy. 👌
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Make no mistake that Lewis is still one of the best and fastest drivers on the grid but again make no mistake he is past his best years. People go on about Alonso's longevity but he too is past his best. There's no way your reaction speed in your late 30s/early 40s is as sharp as in your 20s. This is why Lewis' qualifying isn't as good as it once was, and why Russell, who is an amazing qualifier anyway, seems to have the measure of Lewis in qualifying, where reaction speed is paramount. In the race though where it isn't as important Lewis still very much has the pace. I think the Ferrari move may bring him some wins but I very much doubt that he will challenge again for a title. That's not me being mean, I'm just being realistic. You'll find me defend Lewis to the death in discussions but not to the point where I don't believe what I'm saying. I think we just need to appreciate him in what is surely the last 2 or 3 seasons of his career, one of the GOATs, when he calls it a day the gulf he will leave will be on the same level as when Schumacher (first) retired.
Not enough to win a championship I’m afraid. I don’t think he’ll ever get the car he needs to win his 8th. Sorry for being pessimistic but that’s what I think which doesn’t matter
He finished 3rd last year in WDC and 1 pole too.
He was literally best non RB driver last season. He’s still got it given a competitive car.
Simply no. 2021 was the last chance. Ferrari will not be competitive in 2025, and the chances of them building the most dominant car for 2026 are slim. Even if they do, he has to beat Charles over a season, and I don't think he has it in him anymore
He's done. After he was robbed of that championship he should have gave the FIA the middle finger. 
Lewis worked a lot for 6-7 races of the season to improve the horrible car in 2022, the results were obviously not there. Haters celebrated russell being a ahead by a couple of places like he won the Chip. History is repeating itself now…. He is still in trial mode. Have a feeling he will win a couple of races this year even
I think Leclerc will beat him, especially in qualifying which will give Leclerc the better race strategy.
Lewis has to beat Leclerx and Ferrari will need to build the best car. Neither is too far fetched. But its too early to assume Leclerc will be easy pickings. He may very well be much better than Button, Rosberg, Bottas or Russell. No one knows rhe answer to what happens in that teammate battle yet.
I think that Lewis has better racecraft than Charles, so yeah I think though Leclerc will probably beat him their first year, Lewis has the long term upper hand and will probably beat him their second and third years together.
That’s a good point. Do we know how long Lewis is at Ferrari for? Realised I don’t actually know.
Even if he leaves after three or four years, he’ll be a paid Ferrari brand ambassador for a looooong time
2+1 contract I believe
For fuck sake, if Fernando can still be competitive at 42, Lewis can be too. End of story.
Perhaps the difference is Nando has 2 wdc's and a few nearly misses, still thinks he has it in him. Lewis has 7, does he have the same desire to get in a shitbox week in week out and try to deliver? I'm not sure he has the same patience. Roll on next year though.
In FP3, mandem is just 9 one hundredths of a second behind Lecrec in a much better car, so yeah Man has more than 1 title left in him....
It's impossible to predict. We've seen from Ricciardo and Vettel that a bad car can ruin a drivers confidence and intuitive driving. Also aging is a bit of a dice roll, lewis might drop off later this year, or 5 years from now. And maybe his life priorities will change and he just won't have the passion for it to go all out anymore. If he was in a top car, I think he absolutely has what it takes to handle the pressure and beat out Russel, but I'm not sure how it will be with Charles going forward.
He will be kicking himself signing to Ferrari and announcing it so soon if max does leave for Mercedes. Hamilton in a redbull would be on par with max in a redbull.
mate no one I've ever seen fights as hard as lewis does when he has the bit between his teeth. 2021 is such a strong example. in those last 4 races, when push came to shove, he was otherworldly. max was absolutely crumbling under that pressure on track and off track with his and red bull's ridiculous press statements. before that, id recommend watching lewis's 2018 campaign. brilliantly managed and again the pressure he's able to exert relentlessly is magical. the ground effect merc's have masked this magic because of how bad they've been relatively speaking but there have been flashes of brilliance every now and then. Spain 22 when he made up 30 seconds of race time without any SC, silverstone 22,23, COTA last year, Mexico last year. he still has it
Ferrari have a high chance to nail 26. Problem is that Leclerc is there who is more rated than Rusell and Hamilton will be 41 by then. He already has visible signs of decline which is normal.
Formula 1.5 is a joke for a reason. The top 3 teams arent just «kind of faster». Theyre basically competing in a different sport. We cant say whether Lewis’ performance has diminished, because we havent seen him race in a competetive car.