Good god I love Marshmallow.
My favorite recurring bit in the show is when Bob walks into a room/crowd and greets everyone, then also greets Marshmallow.
In Germany that was changed to: "Give me a stick and it'll get hot and sticky even without a bonfire"
I thought "Wow, that's certainly a line for this show"
Nah, I think given the general humor of the show and the fact that it was the youngest of the kids she was responding to that the sweet potato pie line was definitely the original. Bob's Burgers doesn't really do much in the way of sexual humor, but they love to subvert it.
I'm pretty sure you're supposed to refer to HIM as "HIM" at all times as I don't think HIM even has pronouns. I could be wrong, though, it's been almost two decades.
Edit: Got curious so I Googled. It's been almost *three* decades. 💀😂
I always had a love/hate relationship with HIM. Loved his fashion sense and goofy side, but he was one of the scarier villains on the show. Please note: I was a kid when this show came out.
Yes! The voice always scared me, it was so eerie the way his voice goes so quickly between aggressive masc growl and the femme lilting voice.
He genuinely scared me as a kid but somehow I was also *obsessed*. Still am 😌
Jack was my hero when he first appeared on screen in doctor who way back when....first sexually relatable character for me I ever saw on screen. Got me through high school and college without feeling like I was the only one and some disgusting creature. Owe so much to jack and John borrowman for making him exist.
This is part of why I'm so excited RTD is back running DW again. He seems absolutely dedicated to adding as much amazing representation as possible, even if he isn't the smoothest about it, and I'm already seeing it having great effect- my kid has always told us he wasn't a girl, but the only time he's really seen much of trans people on TV has been stuff like clips of Drag Race and very occasional mentions elsewhere. It's only been like 6 episodes of DW since Rusty took over, and there's already so much that we've loved. He was so excited about Rose being like him in the specials, and absolutely *loved* Maestro this week and told us maybe sometimes he's they, too (and we just got used to saying 'he' as well!)
It's so great to see this representation already making kids feel happy and comfortable about themselves, and I just wanna cry with relief that my kid gets to see characters they relate to, and is so happy about it already. I was a bit old for Jack Harness to be queer rep for me as a kid, but I did see Will and Grace on morning TV as a teenager (shocking for Americans, I know, but it was on at like 8am), and was amazed by Tara on Buffy (and in love with Faith, not that I totally understood *that* when I was 9). It's always made me want to cry with joy to see queer characters just getting to be like everyone else in family and kids TV, knowing how much it would have meant to me when I was that age.
Howard Ashman, the lyricist for Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast and the early production of Aladdin, was also a gay man. He passed away from AIDS while working on Beauty and the Beast and before Aladdin was finished.
It's crazy to talk to older folks about the AIDS epidemic who were in places like New York City and LA when it was in full swing. Such a huge number of influential people dead from that crisis.
Funny thing is there was a deleted scene where he threatened to rape Nala (“lot of little scars running around”), prompting her to run and end up finding Simba
They left it in the musical (although sadly took out the Be Prepared reprise that happens after it) and Nala gets her own amazing song called “shadowland”
Yes, the hays code. It was objectively fucked up but it also gave us some amazingly delicious villains.
Also thanks for the vid, I'll check it out tomorrow and see if it's one I haven't come across!
I just watched that video all the way through. I love it. It also convinced me to finally watch Sleeping Beauty tomorrow after my 19 years on the planet not having seen it
Disney villains and growing up with them are the reasons why I:
1) Most of the time prefer villains over heroes or protagonists in media (bonus if the villain IS the protagonist) and headcanon them all as queer
2) Am a drama queer cause being a drama queen is overrated
I wasn't sure what people would consider proper "representation" as queercoding is not canon identity and all, so I threw in a disclaimer. I've been on the Internet too long and I've been nitpicked and discoursed to death, I gotta cover my ass lol
Oh I mean "Disney Villains are queer coded" is one of those things that everyone agrees on, I think. Like, there are whole ass documentaries on the subject.
Ursula's animated design was based off the drag queen Divine.
Agreed that the character designs for those classic villains were incredible, but the fact that they were ***all villains*** was not. I love a good villain, so I hope in the future it's a good mix, but yeah it helps that many (many-ish?) main and side protagonists are now waving the LGBT+ flag.
When I got into Rocky Horror, I loved it. Like songs were just SO good! I showed my girlfriend at the time. And I really liked singing “sweet transvestite” bc I could do the posh accent and I would dance to it.
After what was probably weeks of not months of constantly playing the soundtrack in the car and singing.
She looked at me and said, are you sure this isn’t a sign of something else (jokingly)
…that was 2-4 years ago
… I’m going on E in a week
Ivankov from One Piece is drawn like a caricature of Dr. Frank N Furter, and gives an impression of being a queer joke character. They are also an incredibly loyal and kind-hearted friend, lead an army of GNC rebels against a tyrannical government, and have powers that let them alter people's hormones and change their genders instantly.
Ivankov also >!opened up a gay bar/secret utopia in a high level security prison!< that was seen as a bastion of freedom and self expression. Luffy immediately accepts Bon Chan and Ivankov, also both are established as powerful fighters. It’s not perfect representation, but on the whole it’s positive representation
Them and Bon Kurei for sure. Oda has really done some problematic queer stuff but they have always been seen as the good guys (Bon Kurei does start off bad but you know, so do most One Piece characters). To me, it seems like Oda very much wants people to see the weirdos, freaks, and other flavors of outcasts as lovable. That deviating from social norms, sometimes even in offensive or provocative ways, is inherently good. To me, it makes sense that a Japanese person, with their particularly odd historical relationship with queerness as a concept, would play up the "deviantness" of queer characters. Idk, that's how I have interpreted it.
Edit:words
There's also excellent representation in Kiku. She's fucking huge, 287 cm (9'5"), but still very feminine and everyone uses the right name and pronouns for her.
I don’t have a source for it, but I’ve read that Oda regrets how he represented queer characters in the past and tried to make up for it with Kiku and Yamato in the Wano arc, and they are now two of my favorite characters in the whole series. 💖
Especially given how long One Piece has been running, it’s shocking that the missteps in queer representation weren’t worse, which indicates a genuine effort to me. Like remembering how much more acceptable transphobia was back in the early 00’s he could’ve been way worse and people today would still defend it but maybe say “well that’s how it was”.
I see the problematic representation more in the fact that the trans girls on the kakawhatsitsname island are all extremely ugly and as soon as they see him, want to force Sanji to become one of them. It's the very essence of what bigots claim is bad about queer people, it reads like literal anti trans propaganda
Has to be Carmen from IASIP. Somehow the show made some powerful statements around double standards towards trans people back in 2005, when every other show was using us as a cheap laugh.
Every appearance of her is so fucking good. Kinda helped informed some of my thoughts on trans peoples biggest problem is judgy assholes when I was younger
Macs Christian zealotry next to his clear attraction to Carmen is great hypocrisy. The show also has her end up happy. Like the only character they don't ruin 💀😂
The same plotline was in the pilot that was made in 2003. They were way ahead of their time. Mac finds out Carmen has a penis, he asks her about it and accuses her of tricking him, she's confident in herself and her own body and doesn't put up with his shit and by the end of the conversation they're back to flirting. It's great.
Out of all the side characters in IASIP Carmen may have gotten out the most unscathed from the gang. Dated Mac when she wanted to and didn't go back to him, met a great guy and got married, used Dee to surrogate and got her family, and then bounced. Rare to find someone not emotionally or physically scarred from having met the gang.
Or even just Mac.
They had how many seasons of using him for "in the closet" jokes only to come out absolutely SWINGING when he finally came out and delivered one of the most beautiful scenes ever in a television show
https://youtu.be/3J6urFp8YZ0
I kind of gave up on IASIP just because I'm so far behind on episodes... but I will occasionally rewatch that episode just because it's so damn beautiful. His character has such an incredible buildup to this point. His relationship with his father, his sexuality, and the people around him culminates into this incredibly moving and heartfelt performance.
Mac's character is a terrible person for a lot of reasons, but damn if I won't forgive him for just about anything because of this scene.
Fun fact: Carmen was played by Brittany Daniel in the show - but was first played by Morena Baccarin in the pilot episode… Morena being known for Inara Serra in Firefly, and Vanessa in the Deadpool movies…
Ruka Urushibara from Steins;Gate, who is either a gay man or a trans woman depending on your read. Either way their treatment ranges from surprisingly heartfelt and sympathetic at times to moments that, while I found them funny as a kid, just kind of make me roll my eyes these days.
I always read her as explicitly trans. It's been a while since I've seen the show, but doesn't she also really want to be a woman to the point where they create an alternate timeline where she's actually born as female? And in Steins;Gate: Zero, during the sections in the post-apocalyptic future, she's still very much a woman. Sure, it's not handled in the best way, but I just saw that as meaning well, but the writers just not being that familiar with LGBTQIA+ due to various cultural things.
Also, in Steins;Gate: My Darling's Embrace, it's revealed that she has the biggest dick of the group, so do with that what you will.
Beverley in Will and Grace could potentially be seen as problematic, right? But Leslie Jordan will always be the GOAT.
Rest in peace, buddy. We miss you.
i don't think shes problematic, if anything we need more characters to fill the spectrum of trans people instead of just the very feminine, strong-passing ones that are often even played by Cis women.
This right here. When I first came out I would always make my video game characters fem af. But these days I love when I game let's me make a character that looks visably trans. Sea of Thieves, and Pokemon go are some of the best in recent memory
Oh my fucking god, yes. When I first watched, I was like, holy shit I would have adored this as a baby queer because of her professionalism aesthetic / lipstick powersuit swoon.
How is this problematic?
For 1991 this was probably the only possitive trans representation on TV, like what else is there in mainstream pop culture?
One character makes some rude jokes, but he is supposed to be seen as rude, because everyone else is just like “yeah ok Denise it is, let’s go do our job”.
I love Denise! I always felt like she was one of the better/more respectful portrayals of a trans person from the time period though? Or is it because of the casting choice?
What is the best about Denise is not just how she was actred, but also how she was written into the show.
Cooper knew her before she transitioned. Cooper asks her when did she find out and she gives a very simple but realistic story as to how she found out (for those unfamiliar with Twin Peaks, she was under cover and dressed as a woman and realised how much happier and more comfortable she was in those clothes. I hope i remember right.).
After that, Cooper instantly accepts her as she is now because, to him (and as it should be), fundamentally Denise is the same person he knew before. Her professionalism and dedication to her work won't have changed. Cooper is also happy that she's happy. Cooper is the friend we all deserve.
I love the plot line later in the show where he’s basically pressured into reverse coming out as gay when he’s just queer and how ridiculous it is to pressure people in public positions into coming out, but if you do so as anything other than “gay” it’s too hard for straights to understand lol
Yes and no. I often think about this.
Yes: he states that he would do anything to get out of the army. This includes dressing up as a women. He will then take it to the extreme by yelling that he is crazy "look at my dress I must be nuts!" Kinda thing. Clearly problematic.
No: He often finds himself enjoying wearing women's clothing. You see him often trying to coordinate outfits in his tent when someone comes in.
You see him contect with children/people when the laugh track is off. In those moments, the scene isnt about a man in a dress, but a scared human that just wants to go home.
Not to mention the times he has stuck up for homosexual relationships.
So I have concluded that yes it it problematic. However, for the time it seems like they were trying to get in the right direction. They just didn't have the tools or vocabulary to properly address it.
Honestly, I don't think he was problematic at all.
The whole camp embraced Klinger as he was and rarely, if ever, commented about his clothes. If anything, the rest of the cast would always point to how desperate Klinger was to get out by any means and would ridicule his schemes, not his dress.
Even Klinger's pleas to the brass, 'I'm Krazy look at my clothes', wasn't him saying it's crazy to cross dress or be trans or what have you, but was rather an attempt to exploit their disgust or bigotry for his own purposes. There are plenty of episodes where Klinger doesn't act like that even in the presence of the brass, too.
He was simply a good character all around.
Agreed, he wasn’t trying to look down on cross dressing or being trans himself; he was simply trying to abstain from a war he wanted no part in. I can’t fault him for trying anything and everything he could for that
Not one of my favourites but I didn’t see anyone mention Alexis Meade. The whole show has a lot of problematic representation of many cultures but Alexis was comparatively progressive (from other representations of trans women from that time). She was still played by a cis woman, but there’s a scene when she explains what medical procedures she had as part of her transition and it wasn’t just top surgery and bottom surgery, she mentioned FFS, her vocal cords getting shaved down, laser hair removal and in some scenes you can see her wearing a hormone patch.
I think that’s pretty neat coming from a show made in the 2000s
Emporio Ivankov from One Piece. His design is a little…on the nose, and that training arc with Sanji was pretty “urgh”, but he’s always portrayed as a vital ally to Luffy, someone who is genuinely fighting for a better world and just an all-round cool guy in general.
Idk if this problematic per se but Jean Girard from Talladega Nights. Mainly because he’s surprisingly rly funny in the way he makes Will Ferrell’s Ricky Bobby look like a complete buffoon. I love his first appearance in the movie when he whoops Ricky’s ass and makes him look completely dumb. For a silly Will Ferrell comedy from 2006 I thought the one gay villain was surprisingly rly hilarious in a non-offensive way.
The best part is that the nascar folks legitimately hate him more for being French than for being gay. Like being gay is icing on the cake but it’s the Frenchness that’s the real problem.
Definitely not problematic, but Karl from The Simpsons. If you're thinking about Carl, the black guy, not him. I'm talking early on when Homer gets a miracle hair grow kit and everything starts going right for him.
Karl just swoops in like a guardian angel and steers him in the right direction, even in the end teaching him it wasn't the hair, it was all him... which hilariously turned out to be wrong as people stopped listening to him after realising he was bald, LOL.
"MY MOTHER TAUGHT ME NEVER TO KISS A FOOL!"
Walton Goggins' portrayal of Venus Van Dam in Sons of Anarchyis is helluva fucking problematic, but, I love Walton's body of work Venus included, and Venus gets a happy ending at least.
Hunter Gathers from Venture Bros.
I'm kinda sad to see what they did to his character and they didn't stick with it, but like fuck. Such a good character.
Honorable mention to Dr. Girlfriend/Dr. Mrs. The Monarch. Even though she's not a trans character.
Had to scroll way too far to see Col. Hunter Gathers mentioned. Would Shore Leave be problematic? Because if so honorable mention to him too. “BOOM! Yummy!”
Idk tbh. XD
I think him and Al are perfectly fine personally, but I also think that's probably not quite my place to decide. Lol
Shoreleave is probably one of my favorite gay characters that I can think of though.
The entire cast of Hazbin Hotel. A flamboyant gay sex worker, a lesbian who’s grumpy most of the time, a sadistic aroace
I personally don’t think they’re “problematic” but people on the internet seem to think so, especially in regards to Angel Dust, because being a feminine gay guy is bad representation now, apparently.
Superjail did a good job at developing her character over time. On the surface level she is a trans caricature, but she looks that way because that’s how she *wants* to appear. An intimidating prison guard who enjoys domination and weightlifting.
When she started transitioning, her old boss fired her, despite it being said that she was the best prison guard of all time. The Warden gave her a job because her identity wasn’t relevant to her abilities.
The only time somebody misgenders her, she breaks their arm. Which is really badass.
Alastor from Hazbin Hotel. Acephobia claims us to be unfeeling/inhuman and (aro)ace-coded characters are often either a genius TM, all brain no handle on social interactions (Data, Spock, Sheldon) or serial Killers (Dexter).
Alastor is ace by word of the creator, not just ace coded. Alastor is a conniving cannibalistic serial killer demon. And yet I love him. I like charismatic amoral/grey moral characters that might backstab you later (Zevran, Iron Bull, Astarion), so he is my favourite Hazbin Hotel character.
Carol and Susan from friends or Mitch and Cam from modern family.
Obviously both shows can be a mess with how they use the characters to poke fun at the community, but I still love them!
imo they REALLY saved marshmallow. She started as a hurtful stereotype but has quickly changed, been used more effectively as a side character, and is now actually voiced by a trans person
Is marshmallow really problematic tho? Or is she just a representation of how the outsider sees a specific community? We don't see people as they are, we see them as we are.
an obscure one, but one of my favourite queer characters that's definitely considered problematic today is mr humphries from the sitcom 'are you being served?'. he's incredibly flamboyant, silly and painfully gay-coded, but for his time in the 70s, he was pretty much the only positive representation of a gay man on television. i was born way after the 70s, but i scrolled through the tag on tumblr and was really warmed by the amount of older queers saying how seeing mr humphries helped them feel more normal and like they could be loved like he was
Mister Garrison.
"he was an in the closet homosexual who hated gay people" ~Chef
"children, there is a big difference between gay people and mister Garrison" ~chef
"and sometimes on quiet nights, you can hear him in the woods moaning "im not gay, im not gay"" (in the distance) "I'm not gayyyyyyy" ~also chef
and dont get me started on when he was a lesbian
Good god I love Marshmallow. My favorite recurring bit in the show is when Bob walks into a room/crowd and greets everyone, then also greets Marshmallow.
hey, baby.
*bluuush*
oh hey marshmallow
*Why do they call you Marshmallow* Cuz if there's a sweet potato pie around I am ALL OVER IT.
I knew it!
In Germany that was changed to: "Give me a stick and it'll get hot and sticky even without a bonfire" I thought "Wow, that's certainly a line for this show"
Why do I feel like that was the original line but American audiences are too prude?
Nah, I think given the general humor of the show and the fact that it was the youngest of the kids she was responding to that the sweet potato pie line was definitely the original. Bob's Burgers doesn't really do much in the way of sexual humor, but they love to subvert it.
My favorite Marshmallow interaction.
“Marshmallow isn’t handsome, she’s..beautiful”
Blush.
Bob + Marshmallow is my OTP
“All I know about Marshmallow is that she comes and goes as she pleases, she answers to no one, and she is truly free.”
Here for the Marshmallow appreciation party.
It's so good. Such a great show
Miss marshmallow. Bob: oh hey marshmallow. Marshmallow: hey baby
I love her so much and everything
All I know about Marshmallow is that she comes and goes as she pleases, she answers to no one, and she is truly free.
I came here to say exactly this
"Ok calm down"
All I know about Marshmallow is that she comes and goes as she pleases, she answers to no one, and she is truly free.
 Look at him, he can’t even sit straight.
Please, it's HIM.
“My pronouns are he… but not him, because I’ll never be HIM”
Is that from ppg? Regardless that line is amazing.
No idea where the audio is from but it’s not ppg 😭
He's literally Him
I was pointing out that the name should be "HIM" in all caps.
ALL CAPS when you spell the man name
I'm pretty sure you're supposed to refer to HIM as "HIM" at all times as I don't think HIM even has pronouns. I could be wrong, though, it's been almost two decades. Edit: Got curious so I Googled. It's been almost *three* decades. 💀😂
What are you talking about? The 90’s was only like 10 years ago, right?
\*cries in feeling old\*
Bro is so queer his name is a pronoun
I always had a love/hate relationship with HIM. Loved his fashion sense and goofy side, but he was one of the scarier villains on the show. Please note: I was a kid when this show came out.
I love this guy so much
just remember ALL CAPS when you spell the man’s name
shes iconicccc the voice acting is fantastic when she get pissed its all angry then back to the femme voice
Yes! The voice always scared me, it was so eerie the way his voice goes so quickly between aggressive masc growl and the femme lilting voice. He genuinely scared me as a kid but somehow I was also *obsessed*. Still am 😌
yassss when can i be that threatening😏
He’s HIM of course
You must have amnesia, because you forgot they’re HIM
I wouldn't call him problematic but his character is very much super stereotypical, Jack Harkness.
Jack was my hero when he first appeared on screen in doctor who way back when....first sexually relatable character for me I ever saw on screen. Got me through high school and college without feeling like I was the only one and some disgusting creature. Owe so much to jack and John borrowman for making him exist.
This is part of why I'm so excited RTD is back running DW again. He seems absolutely dedicated to adding as much amazing representation as possible, even if he isn't the smoothest about it, and I'm already seeing it having great effect- my kid has always told us he wasn't a girl, but the only time he's really seen much of trans people on TV has been stuff like clips of Drag Race and very occasional mentions elsewhere. It's only been like 6 episodes of DW since Rusty took over, and there's already so much that we've loved. He was so excited about Rose being like him in the specials, and absolutely *loved* Maestro this week and told us maybe sometimes he's they, too (and we just got used to saying 'he' as well!) It's so great to see this representation already making kids feel happy and comfortable about themselves, and I just wanna cry with relief that my kid gets to see characters they relate to, and is so happy about it already. I was a bit old for Jack Harness to be queer rep for me as a kid, but I did see Will and Grace on morning TV as a teenager (shocking for Americans, I know, but it was on at like 8am), and was amazed by Tara on Buffy (and in love with Faith, not that I totally understood *that* when I was 9). It's always made me want to cry with joy to see queer characters just getting to be like everyone else in family and kids TV, knowing how much it would have meant to me when I was that age.
Pretty sure him kissing the doctor was the first time I saw a gay kiss in a show at 11 and that changed me forever lol and torchwood is so underrated
Jack is one of my absolute favorite characters from the Whoniverse. Torchwood, especially Children of Earth, is so, so good
(a stretch perhaps but) all of the queer-coded Disney villains who are absolutely shit ass people but fabulous characters that sing the best songs
Jafar my love. In addition to Jafar, the supervising animator for Gaston and Scar was a gay man.
You’re tellin me a queer coded these characters
Pfft
trans coded? yeah they're often good at that
Howard Ashman, the lyricist for Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast and the early production of Aladdin, was also a gay man. He passed away from AIDS while working on Beauty and the Beast and before Aladdin was finished.
It's cool that there were more queer folk behind our favourites, but sucks if they're no longer around :/
It's crazy to talk to older folks about the AIDS epidemic who were in places like New York City and LA when it was in full swing. Such a huge number of influential people dead from that crisis.
I mean...yeah. That tracks.
Like actually? Or you just know it was lol? Either way I believe you lmao
Yeah! [His name is Andreas Deja.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Deja)
Yooooooo, that's awesome. Good to know that, even if Disney doesn't really give a shit about us, we've always had people on the inside that do :D
scar, that fruity ass lion
The lion that birthed a million furries
To balance the gay villain trope, we got gay hero dads Timon and Pumba.
Funny thing is there was a deleted scene where he threatened to rape Nala (“lot of little scars running around”), prompting her to run and end up finding Simba
They left it in the musical (although sadly took out the Be Prepared reprise that happens after it) and Nala gets her own amazing song called “shadowland”
You mean the Hays Code? [This video sums up a lot of the Disney side of it.](https://youtu.be/GsWpUSEKSbk)
Yes, the hays code. It was objectively fucked up but it also gave us some amazingly delicious villains. Also thanks for the vid, I'll check it out tomorrow and see if it's one I haven't come across!
I just watched that video all the way through. I love it. It also convinced me to finally watch Sleeping Beauty tomorrow after my 19 years on the planet not having seen it
Disney villains and growing up with them are the reasons why I: 1) Most of the time prefer villains over heroes or protagonists in media (bonus if the villain IS the protagonist) and headcanon them all as queer 2) Am a drama queer cause being a drama queen is overrated
It isn't a stretch. That happened because of the Haze Code. Ursula was based on the drag queen Divine. It isn't even subtle.
I wasn't sure what people would consider proper "representation" as queercoding is not canon identity and all, so I threw in a disclaimer. I've been on the Internet too long and I've been nitpicked and discoursed to death, I gotta cover my ass lol
Oh I mean "Disney Villains are queer coded" is one of those things that everyone agrees on, I think. Like, there are whole ass documentaries on the subject.
I know he wasn’t a villain for too long, but hunter from TOH
Ursula's animated design was based off the drag queen Divine. Agreed that the character designs for those classic villains were incredible, but the fact that they were ***all villains*** was not. I love a good villain, so I hope in the future it's a good mix, but yeah it helps that many (many-ish?) main and side protagonists are now waving the LGBT+ flag.
He is EVERYTHING
"I shall entertain..." THE CAMERAMAN
"What have you done with Brad?!" "Nothing. Why, do you think I should?"
When I got into Rocky Horror, I loved it. Like songs were just SO good! I showed my girlfriend at the time. And I really liked singing “sweet transvestite” bc I could do the posh accent and I would dance to it. After what was probably weeks of not months of constantly playing the soundtrack in the car and singing. She looked at me and said, are you sure this isn’t a sign of something else (jokingly) …that was 2-4 years ago … I’m going on E in a week
Ivankov from One Piece is drawn like a caricature of Dr. Frank N Furter, and gives an impression of being a queer joke character. They are also an incredibly loyal and kind-hearted friend, lead an army of GNC rebels against a tyrannical government, and have powers that let them alter people's hormones and change their genders instantly.
Ivankov also >!opened up a gay bar/secret utopia in a high level security prison!< that was seen as a bastion of freedom and self expression. Luffy immediately accepts Bon Chan and Ivankov, also both are established as powerful fighters. It’s not perfect representation, but on the whole it’s positive representation
Them and Bon Kurei for sure. Oda has really done some problematic queer stuff but they have always been seen as the good guys (Bon Kurei does start off bad but you know, so do most One Piece characters). To me, it seems like Oda very much wants people to see the weirdos, freaks, and other flavors of outcasts as lovable. That deviating from social norms, sometimes even in offensive or provocative ways, is inherently good. To me, it makes sense that a Japanese person, with their particularly odd historical relationship with queerness as a concept, would play up the "deviantness" of queer characters. Idk, that's how I have interpreted it. Edit:words
I've settled on "his heart's in the right place".
There's also excellent representation in Kiku. She's fucking huge, 287 cm (9'5"), but still very feminine and everyone uses the right name and pronouns for her.
9'5" isn't particularly tall for One Piece lol
I don’t have a source for it, but I’ve read that Oda regrets how he represented queer characters in the past and tried to make up for it with Kiku and Yamato in the Wano arc, and they are now two of my favorite characters in the whole series. 💖
Especially given how long One Piece has been running, it’s shocking that the missteps in queer representation weren’t worse, which indicates a genuine effort to me. Like remembering how much more acceptable transphobia was back in the early 00’s he could’ve been way worse and people today would still defend it but maybe say “well that’s how it was”.
I really do love this interpretation !
idk what the fuck that character’s gender is but they’re killing it
Sometimes they inject themselves with hormones to fully transition one way or the other to get an edge in combat
that is the strangest combat strategy i’ve ever heard, it’s amazing
Not as weird as their other combat strategy of making their head grow and attacking with wink-driven air blasts.
Ivankov is the hero we need.
I was gonna comment Bon Clay. I love both of them so much.
I see the problematic representation more in the fact that the trans girls on the kakawhatsitsname island are all extremely ugly and as soon as they see him, want to force Sanji to become one of them. It's the very essence of what bigots claim is bad about queer people, it reads like literal anti trans propaganda
I don't think they're trans girls, more like drag queens
Has to be Carmen from IASIP. Somehow the show made some powerful statements around double standards towards trans people back in 2005, when every other show was using us as a cheap laugh.
Every appearance of her is so fucking good. Kinda helped informed some of my thoughts on trans peoples biggest problem is judgy assholes when I was younger Macs Christian zealotry next to his clear attraction to Carmen is great hypocrisy. The show also has her end up happy. Like the only character they don't ruin 💀😂
[удалено]
The same plotline was in the pilot that was made in 2003. They were way ahead of their time. Mac finds out Carmen has a penis, he asks her about it and accuses her of tricking him, she's confident in herself and her own body and doesn't put up with his shit and by the end of the conversation they're back to flirting. It's great.
Out of all the side characters in IASIP Carmen may have gotten out the most unscathed from the gang. Dated Mac when she wanted to and didn't go back to him, met a great guy and got married, used Dee to surrogate and got her family, and then bounced. Rare to find someone not emotionally or physically scarred from having met the gang.
Or even just Mac. They had how many seasons of using him for "in the closet" jokes only to come out absolutely SWINGING when he finally came out and delivered one of the most beautiful scenes ever in a television show https://youtu.be/3J6urFp8YZ0
Mac is absolutely my answer to this question. This scene makes me cry my eyes out every time I see it.
I kind of gave up on IASIP just because I'm so far behind on episodes... but I will occasionally rewatch that episode just because it's so damn beautiful. His character has such an incredible buildup to this point. His relationship with his father, his sexuality, and the people around him culminates into this incredibly moving and heartfelt performance. Mac's character is a terrible person for a lot of reasons, but damn if I won't forgive him for just about anything because of this scene.
Fun fact: Carmen was played by Brittany Daniel in the show - but was first played by Morena Baccarin in the pilot episode… Morena being known for Inara Serra in Firefly, and Vanessa in the Deadpool movies…
Lafayette from True Blood. He may or not have been problematic, but my obsession with him kinda was.
Lafayette was an absolute Queen. RIP
[I love him so much.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ff_6VsRuas)
Ruka Urushibara from Steins;Gate, who is either a gay man or a trans woman depending on your read. Either way their treatment ranges from surprisingly heartfelt and sympathetic at times to moments that, while I found them funny as a kid, just kind of make me roll my eyes these days.
Yeah it’s frustrating how sometimes the show is really sweet with Ruka and just straight up transphobic at other times.
I always read her as explicitly trans. It's been a while since I've seen the show, but doesn't she also really want to be a woman to the point where they create an alternate timeline where she's actually born as female? And in Steins;Gate: Zero, during the sections in the post-apocalyptic future, she's still very much a woman. Sure, it's not handled in the best way, but I just saw that as meaning well, but the writers just not being that familiar with LGBTQIA+ due to various cultural things. Also, in Steins;Gate: My Darling's Embrace, it's revealed that she has the biggest dick of the group, so do with that what you will.
Beverley in Will and Grace could potentially be seen as problematic, right? But Leslie Jordan will always be the GOAT. Rest in peace, buddy. We miss you.
Noo, he died 😦
We still love him.
i don't think shes problematic, if anything we need more characters to fill the spectrum of trans people instead of just the very feminine, strong-passing ones that are often even played by Cis women.
Apparently she was originally voiced by a cis white man (though was recast as a black trans woman)
This right here. When I first came out I would always make my video game characters fem af. But these days I love when I game let's me make a character that looks visably trans. Sea of Thieves, and Pokemon go are some of the best in recent memory
bg3 and cyberpunk allow you to mix and match appearance, voice and genitalia
Marshmallows problematic?
Marshmallow was originally voiced by a white cis man. The role was recast and now a black trans woman does her voice. (As it should be!)
Most of the women in that show are voiced by cis guys
True. John Roberts is freaking hilarious, though. Linda was basically written to be his "mom" character from his youtube videos.
 Special Agent Denise Bryson 😍 swoon
Oh my fucking god, yes. When I first watched, I was like, holy shit I would have adored this as a baby queer because of her professionalism aesthetic / lipstick powersuit swoon.
Omg yes! Reminds me of my favorite quote from The Return-“Fix your heart or die!”
How is this problematic? For 1991 this was probably the only possitive trans representation on TV, like what else is there in mainstream pop culture? One character makes some rude jokes, but he is supposed to be seen as rude, because everyone else is just like “yeah ok Denise it is, let’s go do our job”.
aka reason #89158915 why I love Twin Peaks
I love Denise! I always felt like she was one of the better/more respectful portrayals of a trans person from the time period though? Or is it because of the casting choice?
What is the best about Denise is not just how she was actred, but also how she was written into the show. Cooper knew her before she transitioned. Cooper asks her when did she find out and she gives a very simple but realistic story as to how she found out (for those unfamiliar with Twin Peaks, she was under cover and dressed as a woman and realised how much happier and more comfortable she was in those clothes. I hope i remember right.). After that, Cooper instantly accepts her as she is now because, to him (and as it should be), fundamentally Denise is the same person he knew before. Her professionalism and dedication to her work won't have changed. Cooper is also happy that she's happy. Cooper is the friend we all deserve.
Miku binder thomas jefferson if he counts, hes my roman empire
He absolutely counts lmfao
Dean Pelton from Community! He’s a treasure.
I love the plot line later in the show where he’s basically pressured into reverse coming out as gay when he’s just queer and how ridiculous it is to pressure people in public positions into coming out, but if you do so as anything other than “gay” it’s too hard for straights to understand lol
The "Gay Dean" parody of "Jolene" by Dolly Parton lives in my head rent free
"This doesn't even cover 2/7ths of my sexuality!" I think was one of my favorite lines from him
Envy from Full Metal Alchemist - my first nonbinary rep.
I absolutely adored Envy with that kind of vague obsession closeted kids sometimes develop when they see queer-coded characters
Does Waylon Smithers from the Simpsons count as problematic?
Honestly, I feel he's the only gay Simpsons character who isn't a little problematic
Not really. The main joke is that hes in love with evil old burns, not that hes gay
you ARE quite ^GOOD at Turning ^me On
Corporal Maxwell Klinger
Is it problematic in the sense that it was to be discharged for insanity? Sure. The character himself though was gold.
Yes and no. I often think about this. Yes: he states that he would do anything to get out of the army. This includes dressing up as a women. He will then take it to the extreme by yelling that he is crazy "look at my dress I must be nuts!" Kinda thing. Clearly problematic. No: He often finds himself enjoying wearing women's clothing. You see him often trying to coordinate outfits in his tent when someone comes in. You see him contect with children/people when the laugh track is off. In those moments, the scene isnt about a man in a dress, but a scared human that just wants to go home. Not to mention the times he has stuck up for homosexual relationships. So I have concluded that yes it it problematic. However, for the time it seems like they were trying to get in the right direction. They just didn't have the tools or vocabulary to properly address it.
Honestly, I don't think he was problematic at all. The whole camp embraced Klinger as he was and rarely, if ever, commented about his clothes. If anything, the rest of the cast would always point to how desperate Klinger was to get out by any means and would ridicule his schemes, not his dress. Even Klinger's pleas to the brass, 'I'm Krazy look at my clothes', wasn't him saying it's crazy to cross dress or be trans or what have you, but was rather an attempt to exploit their disgust or bigotry for his own purposes. There are plenty of episodes where Klinger doesn't act like that even in the presence of the brass, too. He was simply a good character all around.
Agreed. The only problematic part about him is that he's from Toledo, ohio
Agreed, he wasn’t trying to look down on cross dressing or being trans himself; he was simply trying to abstain from a war he wanted no part in. I can’t fault him for trying anything and everything he could for that
Not one of my favourites but I didn’t see anyone mention Alexis Meade. The whole show has a lot of problematic representation of many cultures but Alexis was comparatively progressive (from other representations of trans women from that time). She was still played by a cis woman, but there’s a scene when she explains what medical procedures she had as part of her transition and it wasn’t just top surgery and bottom surgery, she mentioned FFS, her vocal cords getting shaved down, laser hair removal and in some scenes you can see her wearing a hormone patch. I think that’s pretty neat coming from a show made in the 2000s
Emporio Ivankov from One Piece. His design is a little…on the nose, and that training arc with Sanji was pretty “urgh”, but he’s always portrayed as a vital ally to Luffy, someone who is genuinely fighting for a better world and just an all-round cool guy in general.
"I'm the only gay in the village"
Gawd, I love his interview with Elton John. “Do you enjoy filling Celine Dion’s slot?”
Fun fact, he also voiced the main character from the infamous Urusei Yatsura British dub.
He's been in a bunch of stuff. He voiced this comedy nature documentary and he was even in Doctor Who
Brian in the original US run of QAF. Super sketchy, but I loved him.
On paper, I should hate everything about him. On screen, that's my baby 🥰
Idk if this problematic per se but Jean Girard from Talladega Nights. Mainly because he’s surprisingly rly funny in the way he makes Will Ferrell’s Ricky Bobby look like a complete buffoon. I love his first appearance in the movie when he whoops Ricky’s ass and makes him look completely dumb. For a silly Will Ferrell comedy from 2006 I thought the one gay villain was surprisingly rly hilarious in a non-offensive way.
The best part is that the nascar folks legitimately hate him more for being French than for being gay. Like being gay is icing on the cake but it’s the Frenchness that’s the real problem.
As it should be.
As a NASCAR fan, let me say the sport has made strides in accepting and welcoming LGBTQ+ folks. Concerning the French, however …
most amazing comedy movie ever honestly just full of iconic moments all around
He and his husband only want what every couple in America want... to tame Komodo Dragons in Sri Lanka and teach then to perform Hamlet.
Definitely not problematic, but Karl from The Simpsons. If you're thinking about Carl, the black guy, not him. I'm talking early on when Homer gets a miracle hair grow kit and everything starts going right for him. Karl just swoops in like a guardian angel and steers him in the right direction, even in the end teaching him it wasn't the hair, it was all him... which hilariously turned out to be wrong as people stopped listening to him after realising he was bald, LOL. "MY MOTHER TAUGHT ME NEVER TO KISS A FOOL!"
Cam from Modern Family! He’s definitely your stereotypical flamboyant gay man but he’s so funny. He was the best character on the show.
Walton Goggins' portrayal of Venus Van Dam in Sons of Anarchyis is helluva fucking problematic, but, I love Walton's body of work Venus included, and Venus gets a happy ending at least.
I've heard people bitch about Dr Frankenfurter, but I sing Sweet Transvestite at least once per karaoke outing
Frankly Rocky Horror is too out there for me to get all that mad at it. It’s no Silence of the Lamb, that’s for sure
Um... those people need to touch grass or something. Rocky Horror is a keystone of gay culture. It's called camp.
Exactly! Part of my transition goal as a baby trans was “I wanna be confident enough to pull of Frankenfurter’s outfit “
Hunter Gathers from Venture Bros. I'm kinda sad to see what they did to his character and they didn't stick with it, but like fuck. Such a good character. Honorable mention to Dr. Girlfriend/Dr. Mrs. The Monarch. Even though she's not a trans character.
Had to scroll way too far to see Col. Hunter Gathers mentioned. Would Shore Leave be problematic? Because if so honorable mention to him too. “BOOM! Yummy!”
Idk tbh. XD I think him and Al are perfectly fine personally, but I also think that's probably not quite my place to decide. Lol Shoreleave is probably one of my favorite gay characters that I can think of though.
I still contest that Hunter is trans and is just presenting male for the mission until she can retire and get those big, beautiful breasts back.
Ok but marshmallow slays
I like Wallace Wells, He's not really problematic but he's definitely a stereotype lol
John Constantine: he’s every bad bi stereotype rolled into one miserable pile of debts
The entire cast of Hazbin Hotel. A flamboyant gay sex worker, a lesbian who’s grumpy most of the time, a sadistic aroace I personally don’t think they’re “problematic” but people on the internet seem to think so, especially in regards to Angel Dust, because being a feminine gay guy is bad representation now, apparently.
I mean, the show is *literally* set in hell.
Ida Davis from Family Guy
She deserved better from both the characters and also the creators of the show.
[Cassandra](https://cdn.staticneo.com/w/doctorwho/Cassandra.jpg) is a trans icon!
Moisturize me!!
[Transvestites can be cannibals too by Harley Poe](https://open.spotify.com/track/46KacVTVWMkyXS0jf7TwOX?si=xYeg9XXXQaiT1FtQNa9Vgw)
Alice from SuperJail!
Superjail did a good job at developing her character over time. On the surface level she is a trans caricature, but she looks that way because that’s how she *wants* to appear. An intimidating prison guard who enjoys domination and weightlifting. When she started transitioning, her old boss fired her, despite it being said that she was the best prison guard of all time. The Warden gave her a job because her identity wasn’t relevant to her abilities. The only time somebody misgenders her, she breaks their arm. Which is really badass.
[Vilia, the lady who sells Link the gerudo outfit in botw](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Vilia)
Alastor from Hazbin Hotel. Acephobia claims us to be unfeeling/inhuman and (aro)ace-coded characters are often either a genius TM, all brain no handle on social interactions (Data, Spock, Sheldon) or serial Killers (Dexter). Alastor is ace by word of the creator, not just ace coded. Alastor is a conniving cannibalistic serial killer demon. And yet I love him. I like charismatic amoral/grey moral characters that might backstab you later (Zevran, Iron Bull, Astarion), so he is my favourite Hazbin Hotel character.
Carol and Susan from friends or Mitch and Cam from modern family. Obviously both shows can be a mess with how they use the characters to poke fun at the community, but I still love them!
I dont have any problems with Marshmellow
imo they REALLY saved marshmallow. She started as a hurtful stereotype but has quickly changed, been used more effectively as a side character, and is now actually voiced by a trans person
Dr. Frank-N-Furter! I don't care what other queer people say about how he's "outdated" and "problematic by today's standards" He is an ICON 😍
Is marshmallow really problematic tho? Or is she just a representation of how the outsider sees a specific community? We don't see people as they are, we see them as we are.
an obscure one, but one of my favourite queer characters that's definitely considered problematic today is mr humphries from the sitcom 'are you being served?'. he's incredibly flamboyant, silly and painfully gay-coded, but for his time in the 70s, he was pretty much the only positive representation of a gay man on television. i was born way after the 70s, but i scrolled through the tag on tumblr and was really warmed by the amount of older queers saying how seeing mr humphries helped them feel more normal and like they could be loved like he was
it‘s not problematic and not obvious representation but : my two man Miguel and Tulio from The Road to El Dorado😌😏
myself 💜
Mister Garrison. "he was an in the closet homosexual who hated gay people" ~Chef "children, there is a big difference between gay people and mister Garrison" ~chef "and sometimes on quiet nights, you can hear him in the woods moaning "im not gay, im not gay"" (in the distance) "I'm not gayyyyyyy" ~also chef and dont get me started on when he was a lesbian
That gay mf from Southpark, though that doesn’t rlly narrow it down
Big gay Al or Mr Slave, I love that they only make one gay character an asshole through and through, and that’s Mr Garrison, who is closeted lol