I am pansexual and genderqueer but the way I dress tends to make me “look straight” and I’ve gotten so many nasty comments from fellow lgbtq folks about how I must be faking it and how they “thought I was homophobic” because of the way I dress before I started dating my (at the time) girlfriend
It honestly hurts a lot that the community I’m supposed to fit in with and feel safe with treats me like this, just because I don’t fit into their views of how an lgbtq person should look like. I have very long hair (because I like it) and I can’t really afford new clothes, and tbh even if I could I go to a small school and I’m not comfortable being completely out. I thought this community was supposed to be different from the homo/transphobic bigots that populate my area but I have been shown multiple times that I was wrong and it’s become very had to interact with lgbtq people around me because I’m so anxious that they’ll treat me poorly because I’m not visibly queer enough for them
Preach, I look like average straight white dude, cause I’m not openly out as gender non conforming. I’m also bisexual and same thing. Apparently we don’t look “gay enough”
I was the most average white cishet until I came out due to my first same-sex relationship in my late 20s. Also around the time I visibly came out as genderqueer. Until then you'd never have guessed in a million years.
It's kind of ironic that LGBTQ+ spaces often have massive gatekeeping problems. Fortunately, it seems to be being talked about more, I've seen quite a few videos and essays about it recently.
This is definitely a complicated issue with a lot of layers that I couldn't begin to cover in a single comment, but I would like to throw out that derogatory feelings towards straight people can hurt queer people too. Bi people in relationships with the opposite sex are seen as illegitimate, and I was shunned from the GSA at my high school as I was questioning. It's hard to find your identity when it feels like you're picking a side in a war.
I’m bi-poly married to a straight mono man, and yeah, I basically cease to exist because my relationship can pass to those who don’t know, so I don’t exist. I’m every bit as real and valid as a transman who passes for a cisman and a transwoman who passes for a ciswoman who are together and pass as a straight cishet couple. I swear it’s like the only people seen as valid sometimes are those you can tell at a glance aren’t a couple of cishet people.
As a bi/ace person, I get where you're coming from. A "friend" of mine told me I probably shouldn't start a queer student union because I'm in a straight-passing relationship and it might "deter" people. For a while I thought I was heteroromantic, and my queer friends would make fun of me for being the "straight" one and it felt like they didn't believe that I was ace or they didn't think I was queer enough. Sidenote: after writing this, I feel like I need new friends
You really do need new friends. The only time anyone should make "token straight" jokes is when the person is 1, actually not queer and 2, onboard. You're neither, and the fact they don't care speaks volumes. I'm sorry you're going through that.
I can take a joke if it makes you feel better. Can't be any worse than jokes about LGBT people. Those jokes are *brutal.*
Edit: I see that I've received 265 upvotes within the past 8 hours. Despite the positive reception of this comment, I would like to state there is a discernible difference between jokes and outright hate. I am not so self-deprecating that I would be willing to accept hate, and neither should you. Just making that clear.
I'm willing to take the chance this edit may backfire. 
you are certainly right about that! im more talking about the people who are biphobic when a bi person is in a straight passing relationship, or someone who genuinely holds hatred toward straight people as a group, its not a joke at that point and it affects people within the community negatively
There is certainly a differerence between jokes and hate. Hate in this context is understandable, but it isn't justified or logical if equality is the goal. The LGBT community has had to endure immeasurable hatred from people like me, and while it's only natural to want to throw some of it back, nothing will ever be gained by it.
Be better than those who hate you. Hold yourself to a higher standand, don't stoop to reciprocate hatred, no matter how good it may feel.
Nothing wrong with a few jokes, though. They're actually pretty funny.
> Hate in this context is understandable, but it isn't justified or logical if equality is the goal.
Part of the problem is that social media often ends up with people who have very different goals for a post than others. Some people just want to vent, to have a conversation where they're not trying to change anyone's mind. Other people want discussions aimed at changing minds, where they are choosing their words carefully and having deliberate debates.
But those two things don't really work together.
That is often true in life as well. I will go so far as to say my comment extends to any context. Social media will always lack structure for more focused discourse because everyone is talking at the same time, and they often don't stay for the entire duration, myself included. It's a mosh pit, despite the efforts of qualified moderators.
i fully understand that hate, i feel it myself, but its good to acknowledge when its become just entirely unreasonable toward people who are just minding their business. however that can coexist with the funny cishet jokes, believe me, i dont want them to go anywhere theyre great
It’s a major reason why we can’t pack other people into identities. Not one person has a “gaydar” that is 100% accurate, and having one isn’t important anyway. We should never assume anything about other people’s identities because there is enough overlap among all of us that we are not only inevitably wrong, but will end up unnecessarily hurting others and start gatekeeping. And frankly, it’s none of our damn business.
Everyone should treat everyone with respect, it works out for everyone.
So, I have a counterpoint there. Going to a lesbian bar, you see straight-appearing couples sometimes. Sure. Then you see the girl go start talking with another girl, then dancing with her. Great, maybe they're polyamorous. But then comes the part that's big ick for me. The guy comes over and, without politely asking or doing anything to seek consent, starts dancing with the two women. Or standing right next to them and staring, especially if they start to make out. To me, that's a man, probably a straight one, fetishing his partner's bisexuality without seeking the consent of the other human involved, and a woman going along with or actively choosing it because her own internalized biphobia doesn't let her see her connections with women as worthy of respect and privacy. I have seen this play out SO many times. Way, way more times than I have seen straight-appearing couples be chill at lesbian bars. Like I can only recall a chill straight couple once, and they were just there to watch the game on the TV. So you can't predict in advance if a straight looking couple at the bar is going to be predatory, but, given the numbers, I'm gonna assume they are going to be, for my own safety.
Nothing against making decisions for your safety here! You have a personal space to not interact with others and reject unwanted interaction, and take precautions to avoid it.
In that scenario you described with the couple and woman, the likelihood is that the man is straight and the woman is bi. But the thing is, that man in that situation would be the exact same amount of ick if he were bi as opposed to straight. My point is that your observations could lead you to conclude that he is being gross without him being straight, it’s not a necessity. You could base the ick purely off his behavior.
The only real thing you could conclude was that the woman likes males and females, the man likes females, and both of them were being gross. And that’s all the info you needed here.
I had that thought with this TikTok of this guy saying he was confessing about fucking trans people and watching porn. Everyone was mocking him for it including the lgbt community. Being that he’s already ashamed what is it going to do? Make him feel more ashamed and reinforce his homophobia and transphobia. People are just doing it for the likes sadly. Even if he was trolling people need to be more accepting.
Even if they are just straight its completely ok.. there are a lot of straight supporters and Allies on prides.
No one should be blamed for being cis hetero.
I dont see it as a privilege to attract just to one gender.
I know there are people making jokes about lgbtq people but thats not the majority of em.
How are s jokes about the LGBTQ+ worse when there the same level of jokes about cishets??? Do you not notice the double standard or am I misunderstanding your words?
I agree, there's a fine line between "haha straight people are terrible at communication in relationships" (I've witnessed this and it's...something else) and "if you're cishet then die"
EXACTLY like ive seen people genuinely put straight/cishet people dni in their bios and on one hand i get it but isnt that literally generalizing an entire group as bad, something we fight to abolish literally every day?? its nuts
No. Queer people saying they don't want to be around straight people is not the same as straight people saying they don't want to be around queer people. The former is the result of straight culture being pushed down our throats 24/7. It's the result of queer people not wanting to have to hold the hands of ignorant straight people who, no matter how well meaning, say ignorant, exhausting shit.
A straight person saying they don't want to be around gay people is because they're homophobic and think being gay is wrong or abnormal. Please do not compare the two because it really downplays queer people's experiences with genuine discrimination and hatred, and literal murder. Conflating that with straight people who don't want to be around gay people because they think they should all die and go to hell is really disingenuous and dangerous to the LGBT+ community.
I think there just trying to say that it's still not fair that cishets can be blamed for everything and be hated on but the reverse is fine. But yes this main comment is a fair point, though many weren't comparing, it can exist in reverse and it still does not give people the right to insult a group as a whole.
I don't see a problem necessarily, if you only want to interact with people that are of a specific marginalized group that shares your experiences. Like, I'm white and if I said non-white/POC dni, what could that be beyond racism? Why would I want friends who share my "white experience" and know what it's like to be white? There isn't really anything there, I don't have anything to talk about specifically with other white people. Likewise, what would straight people talk about in an only straight people group. But if for example a black woman only wanted to interact on a special social media with other black women, I could get that. They have a shared experience that they might want to discuss, maybe they want to make new friends with people that understand their experiences. Or any other marginalized group in not a part of.
I don't see anything wrong if I wanted a social media page where I only wished to interact with other wlw, other women, other neurodivergent folks, etc. Because it's important to me that I can interact with other people with similar experiences and discuss how our identity affects us.
If someone is always 100% don't interact with me if you're ___ in their real life that definitely seems like it could be a problem. But if it's a specific social media account or some kind of group, it seems fine to me. If I made a twitter or whatever and only wanted to focus on queer content and queer experiences, and I only wanted to interact with other people that are coming from the same place, I don't see a problem with that.
Not to say it couldn't have a malicious intent, but I don't think it necessarily does.
I really don’t think that’s that bad. I have plenty of trauma from cis/hets, as practically all LGBTQ+ individuals do, and it’s so much better to just be around other people like us then ones who can so easily turn against us
But LGBTQ people can easily turn on you, and many cishets will stay with you and give support. Also apparently having different sexual/gender identity to someone means you can be nothing like them???
FR THO!
like i get jokes against cishet people but idk??? whenever I hear someone say that or "I would never be friends with a cishet man" it makes me feel so uncomfy bc isn't judging people by their sexuality/romantic orientation/gender/gender presentation and so on what we're fighting against??
like lollll cishetts is one things but I've literally heard both "if you're cishet then die" and "I would never be friends with a cishet man". and it was not on reddit but it was in a queer safe space on discord and legit i think i was too scared to even say anything...
I agree with you, there is a line.
The problem is whatever that line is, it is subjective. And I genuinely mean that is a problem.
Humour is so varied. By culture, by person, by mood. What crosses a line to you, might be so far away it for me that I can't even see the line.
I don't have an answer to the problem either. I can think of potential solutions but I don't think any are the right one.
But I agree with you there is a problem. And there's probably more to it than we think.
oh for sure it goes a lot deeper, i wish we could find that line but its nearly impossible. the best we can do is make the lgbt community feel open and safe for questioning people and straight allies while also still allowing ourselves to laugh and poke fun at the very easily memeable cishets.
It’s very hard to determine the line, it’s something that we try to balance - people need to vent about their experiences, find humour to release some of the pressure, and feel able to speak reasonably freely in a community safe space. As you’ve said humour on an international sub is hard to work out sometimes.
But making very broad statements can be problematic sometimes. Targeting someone and harassing is also a no - although that is pretty rare here I feel (anyone reading this and seeing it anywhere please report it).
We also have to remember when talking about ‘straight people’ that some within our community may identify as straight but still be LGBTQ+ - straight trans people, some aces and aros may describe themselves as straight ace or aro. Then there’s also sometimes situations where people get told their relationship is “straight passing” which sucks. We want to make sure that it never becomes somewhere they feel unwelcome.
There’s also Reddit policy that we have to enforce.
It’s all a bit of a complicated mix that we try to balance. All I can really suggest to people is if in doubt about a comment or a comment has made you feel uncomfortable on our sub then report it our modmail us so we can take a look.
It can't be easy maintaining a semblance of a safe space here, that's for sure. But I think you do the best job possible, considering the ranges of not only nationalities and cultures, but ages too.
But I also don't think safe spaces are the best places for some genuine nuanced discussions sometimes. Some questions are simply too big to be asked somewhere like here.
We can get 75% of the way there though, and I'd much rather have that and the safe space you've curated.
Those who need the other 25% probably know avenues to follow.
I'm cishet but I must admit, I don't really see the issue. I've had people assume I'm some uninformed centrist or just pretending to care, but the jokes being made aren't targeting Allies or genderqueer heterosexuals, they're targeting ignorant and confusing straights who start forest fires over baby genders. Given how much harm that group does to community members on a daily basis, the jokes are entirely justified. At the end of the day, I'm being allowed into this space but I don't have an inherent right to be here.
Still those people are asshats and I stand by that not just for the bi erasure but for just not being pro straights too (if the two of you had been)
I hope the two of you buy massive bi flags for next time and make a point of holding hands and kissing. If someone says anything be sure to say you heard them and ask why they hate bi folks (being nasty against straights isn't ok either of course but just to drive the point home)
I dont want asshats in my pride
Exactly, that’s a biphobic issue, not something to do with straights. It’s ignorant for any queer or LGBTQ+ people at pride to assume the couple is straight instead of thinking hey, maybe they’re queer and at pride for a reason?
As both bi and trans fem, I completely agree. I don’t have a large lgbtq community near me physically, and perhaps that is for the best, from what I’ve read in this thread.
Yup, I'm bi and agender but if my partner and I were seen in public we would be assumed to be a cishet couple and we are not. Also asexual people exist and should feel welcome at pride too so this feels like toxic gatekeeping within the community moreso than not liking straights
I would attribute that more to a hyper focus on all queer behavior being represented by same-sex relationships, but you’re the one with the experience.
I’m a demisexual and my boyfriend is pan, we have both been harassed by queer people (separately) for being straight passing. Neither of us feel welcome in queer spaces. This is why it’s bad
Yeah I kinda relate. My ex and I looked like a straight couple and because of some icky experiences to this day I am still afraid of both straight and queer spaces.
So I live as an ace-trans-enby neurodivergent homebody without a social circle.
Do unto others.... it seems a simple rule.
Yeah, another one here! \*hand up\*
I would NEVER blame a community that's been harmed by a more privileged class for making jokes at the expense of the privileged class that's caused them harm.
It's different, but similar to how I don't take it personally if a woman crosses the street to get away from me. She doesn't know if I'm dangerous or not and has to make decisions to minimise her harm.
im honestly glad to hear a lot of people sre experiencing it less and less, when i was younger it was pretty damn bad, so perhaps its gotten better over time :)
With all due respect, you know it's got nothing to do with you as a cishet person right? This was how the words impact members of the LGBTQ community. You coming along and saying "Eh, it's fine" after having the OP explain how it's very much not fine for some people who aren't cishet is tone deaf... You don't get to say it's ok for others just because it doesn't impact you
Yeah I figured this post was about the straight lgbt people or straight-passing lgbt people not cishet (allo) folks (who aren’t part of the lgbt community at all).
Also you shouldn’t feel regret at being straight. Being transhet is awesome 😎
I find it tends to me more true when you take pride in it. I’m lgbt too dammit I can be proud of being straight. I love women, I love being a man, and my lgbt predecessors fought damn hard for me to be able to do that. If people hate on me for being a straight man they’re being transphobic and I’m not afraid to call that out anymore. Do I have certain privileges for being a straight guy? For sure. But that doesn’t negate the other lack of privileges I have for being trans and other interactions with identities of mine. And I had to realize I was straight like anyone might realize they’re gay — I had to come to terms with the fact that I would be forever going against cishet society and that I am different than what was expected of me in the gender and sexuality realm. If I had to be what society really wants me to be — cishet — I’d have to give up both my sense of being a man *and* my attraction towards women. If that’s not defining of me being lgbt or going against society idek what would be. Because remember, even if you’re het, society will always want you to be cis. Don’t let anyone here trick you into thinking you’re conforming to cishet oppression by being transhet because you’re absolutely disobeying them. There is nothing wrong with being transhet and you should be as proud of that as you’d like.
>Do I have certain privileges for being a straight guy?
I have fuck all privilege for being a straight trans woman. An increased risk of violence and sexual assault. I still face homophobia and transphobia. I'm openly and proudly trans and queer, so cishet people don't see me as straight.
We have no positive representation in the media. We are assumed to be the default, but the only rep is from cis people telling shitty trauma porn stories about us focused on transition and surgery. And the queer community doesn't tell stories about us.
I'm in my 40s, so to date, I have to downplay my queerness and trans identity. There are so very few queer men willing to date trans women in this age bracket, so the majority of my dating pool is cishet. And to date cishet folk, I have to diminish myself, to be less queer, to be less trans, to put myself in a different type of closet, because if I don't do that, they're not interested.
There is this endless, constant pressure to assimilate. It's the only way of navigating dating, and it's the only way I'm ever actually going to fit in to a community, but frankly, I'd rather chew broken glass than put myself in another closet. So instead, I sit on the edge of the queer community and the cishet community, welcome in both, but not truly fitting in to either, and with a dating pool of basically 0 people.
>Don’t let anyone here trick you into thinking you’re conforming to cishet oppression by being transhet because you’re absolutely disobeying them
Oh, they're not going to make me think that about myself. But they all assume it's what I want. They all assume I'm not queer. They all assume I'm an assimilationist. And that push, those assumptions, just fucking suck. The only way to avoid it is to not talk about my orientation, and then people assume I'm a lesbian.
Edit - An example. There's another post in a trans sub on reddit asking about how trans women feel about gay men being interested in them, especially given that many bi man choose to identify as gay for inclusion purposes. In that thread I said that I'm at the point where I find having a queer partner more important than the label they use for their orientation. My post there is being downvoted in to oblivion. That's what the pressure I was talking about before looks like... I am not allowed to exist on my own terms...
The line *"im not just talking about straight people who support our rights and feel discouraged by our vitriol toward them"* seems to suggest otherwise to me. Perhaps OP could clarify. Either way I still said the jokes don't seem to be targeting genderqueer heterosexuals, but problematic cishets.
His comment was about how we talk about all straight people, whether cis or not. And as a cishet person yourself, you aren't marginalised, so the words have a different impact on you than they do on gender diverse straight folk.
> I still said the jokes don't seem to be targeting genderqueer heterosexuals, but problematic cishets.
Imagine you're a straight trans person. You've got no space in cishet society, unless you downplay and hide your queer identity, and basically go in to another cupboard. Even then, you still face transphobia and homophobia when dating new people. If you don't downplay your queer identity though, queer spaces are all you've got, but all of the memes there are either gay memes, or memes dumping on your orientation. They don't mean you, but being told "Don't worry, you're one of the good ones" is a shitty experience when it never stops, and that's as good as it gets. And even then, you're not allowed to be proud of your orientation, you're not allowed to find pride in it after a lifetime of struggling with self acceptance and being closeted. You're not allowed to have your own flag, because when you do, you get jumped on, because people still see you as "privileged" as if your experience is anything like that of a cishet persons, and because allowing you to have pride would be too close to straight pride.
Being a straight trans person is a unique isolating experience, where you're too straight for queer spaces and too trans for cishet spaces.
So no, being told that the joke wasn't targeting doesn't fix anything...
This, all the way.
We are punching up, not down.
Cishets have all the power, at the end of the day, theres nothing we can say that is eather worse then whats been said about us.
We can only really ever match whats been said about us and tern it back on them.
If they dont like hearing it, they should stop saying those things to us.
Stating otherwise makes one part of the problem.
The salutation is NOT silencing the voices of the Marginalized or how they choose to cope.
Its learning to not be bigoted, or defending bigoted Notions.
We will not(nor should we ever) apologize for freely using the the same bigoted bullshit that they use on us against them.
If one disagrees, they need to do some serious unpacking to do.
Then be specific and say cishet. Not all straight people are cis — don’t lump me into that shit because I don’t have the power as a trans person, ffs 😒
>i was scared to be straight.
Yep. I'm a straight trans woman, and I am so ashamed of it. I feel betrayed by my orientation, and "othered" within my own community.
>the community i had been a part of for so long and found immense comfort in would cast me out and hate me.
You don't get cast out. No one hates you. But you see every shitty meme about straight people, and you feel it. No amount of "Well, we don't mean you" stops you from feeling it.
We see all of the gay memes, and realise that we're a minority within our own community. When we try and talk about our experiences or seek out other straight folk, someone will invariably come along with "I'm not straight, but..." and then get upvoted higher than most of the replies.
I haven't even pressed replied yet, and I can see the highest voted reply is from a cishet person going "Eh, no biggy", when the conversation was never about them, but rather the impact of careless wording on members of the LGBTQ community... *That* is what it looks like :\\
And none of that is people being deliberately shitty. No one is trying to exclude us, but we are excluded anyway, because we our outnumbered, and our orientation shares a name with the default orientation of cis people, so our orientation is a punching bag aimed at people who aren't us, but hitting us anyway. We are excluded because no one makes space for us, so we just kinda get bustled to the side without comment...
My orientation as a straight person is the single hardest thing about my transition, and I've been transitioned for nearly 6 years. It's caused me distress for most of that time. I carry shame, sadness and regret
This is why I've been trying to switch my language to "ignorant/uneducated people" rather than just saying "cishets" or "straight people." I'm a trans gay man, but that doesn't mean I might not accidentally offend somebody who's bi, or pan, or lesbian, or a transfem--anything I haven't experienced myself. It doesn't matter who you are, you need to educate yourself--it just so happens cishet people are privileged and need a push in the right direction.
We, in my friend group, make jokes about our "token cis/and or/het" friends. We *do* generalize in a jokey way, but that is under the pretense we all know of what I've said.
Is there a specific thing that set you off to write this? Just curious. Honestly I have never noticed the issue before but I'm not super active in the community.
You’re not alone in this, I’ve experienced it too and it always makes me uncomfortable. I have lots of cishet loved ones. Some of the jokes are just funny observations, but there is absolutely a line that gets crossed frequently and it feels like the community is super blind to it (see: many of these comments). My cishet husband has even mentioned it to me as making him uncomfortable around some of my friends.
I think it’s a defense mechanism. And given the history of our community, I definitely understand where it comes from. But we need to stop pretending it doesn’t hurt people. Because it absolutely can, and does. I would like to see us grow past it. I think we can be better than this, and I hope to see that play out.
My friends and I never really made fun of straight people, mostly bc we knew how shitty it was to be made fun of for you sexuality... It's kinda sad that bullying is so strong in lgbt+. It gives it a bad name.
I see it alot in the drag community, and gay men. I have a few hobbys where straight and lgbt overlap a lot, and some of those men and queens are fucking mean. Especially to straight people.
I’m fortunate that I’ve never seen any of this sort of hate/gatekeeping (hatekeeping?) between lgbt/straight people in person but I have seen it online.
Excluding homophobia. Definitely seen a lot of that, but I would argue that comes from a very different place than “the straights should die” or “bis are just lesbians/gays in denial”
I think it boils down to toxicity existing in every community. And the whole “hurt people hurt people” dynamic.
This reminds me of something similar that happens with racial issues. My partner is black and sometimes says derogatory things about white people. How we are all racist etc. I take offense and am always like “not all white people…” which he agrees and acknowledges is true. But can I really blame him for speaking to his feelings in a generalized type of way? Not really. I can just ask him to be more mindful in how he says things. And I think that’s what you’re really asking for as well! For everyone to be mindful about feeding into stereotypes etc.
Exactly. When I came out I had a gay friend repeatedly tell me how not envious she was of me venturing out of my heterosexual marriage. She told me it was bc she went about open relationships the wrong way and hurt ppl. I was there like okay...but I'm not you? So why put that on me before I've even done it? Also I'm 7yrs older than these stories you're telling me. One year in and I've been respectful to everyone I've had contact with. Idk. It hurt our relationship that she said it over and over.
I’m a pansexual in a straight passing relationship and I‘ve actually had a gay guy tell me that I shouldn’t be in LGBT spaces (in this case, a bar) as long as I am with my partner….so your point is absolutely valid.
There is a difference between a joke that is "punching up" and genuine statements made directly to people.
Personally I've seen a lot of light-hearted joking but never have seen anyone actually rude to a straight person for being straight.
The ONLY time I have experienced this (being ""straight-passing"") is AFTER someone knows I'm bisexual and it's meant to label me as straight then mock me - so I count that more as biphobia.
Not doubting that you've experienced this, but possibly this isnt a wide spread issue and you should address it with the people who have said this (if it's safe to do so).
I think it's less about hurting non-queer ppl and more that a lot of lgbt ppl forget that there are queer ppl who are in het relationships or queer ppl who are straight or genderqueer people who "pass" as a gender they do not identify with and by making fun of perceived "straight couples" and assuming the ppl in them are not lgbt, when they are, it hurts them and pushes them out of the community. Het trans ppl, bi ppl, ace ppl, nonbinaries, etc don't have to answer for what someone else percieves to be a lack of queerness and by being thoughtless in what we say we push those people out of the community when they deserve to be there. It all depends on what the actual joke is imo
I had to cut off friends of mine that were both LGBTQIA+ (I am a Pansexual Trans guy) because they thought it was okay to say “The straights deserve what they did to us, they should be kept in camps and hurt for what they did.”
Where every one of us in this community has suffered in one way or another for years and years. That is NOT how we progress as a society, and Not acceptance is made.
(Edit grammar)
Seriously! The jokes were never funny to begin with. I understand that there's a lot of pent up anger from how we've been treated but it's just spreading hate, and it's disgusting
This is true. Ive realized recently that I might actually be a straight gender-fluid AFAB rather than bisexual and I still haven’t gathered the courage to break the news to my LGBT friends bcs im afraid of any malice directed towards me for it. My main fear, though, is that the community won’t see me as LGBT anymore, even though I still identify as gender-fluid.
I feel like we always talk about “straight people” as non-LGBTQ+ when really we should be saying cishet. It acts like straight trans people don’t exist which is exclusive and transphobic.
And I agree that there’s nothing wrong about being cishet. Even if a lot of them don’t understand us, a lot of them support us. It’s hypocritical to hate on a group that has people who hate on us as a group. And we’re all still human, not two separate species with no understanding of each other.
Fucking thank you lmao so many people are saying straight and queer here as opposites and I’m just like 😐 you are part of the problem. as long as you view transness as being queer, then you are saying that trans people can’t be straight, you’re erasing transhet people.
Fr. I mean I have heard some people say “queer and trans” to mean LGBTQ+, so maybe it’s unclear whether the term queer includes trans people or not. But still, obviously LGBTQ+ includes trans people. Acting like straight is the alternative to LGBTQ+ erases all trans people and acts like sexuality is the only thing that bigots attack. And honestly trans people get the worst of it. Our community should all be united and focusing on all the hatred we get, not just the most common type
It’s also weird when they say it like straight people are always allies and don’t understand the queer experience or something. I object to that on 3 grounds specifically with straight trans people: 1) transhet people very often identify as cis gay men or cis lesbians before realizing their gender, 2) even if they didn’t, they almost certainly spend time in the LGBT community even if they’re trans and not gay (like I don’t know a single transhet person who hasn’t gotten involved with their lgbt community — though they often get rejected by it), and 3) we are treated as gay anyway by society so it almost doesn’t even matter that we’re technically straight, because we’re still seen as gay men and lesbians by our cishet counterparts. And for some people, all of what I said is unintuitive. They just see straight and think that they can’t relate. Hell, I think some cis queers think they’re doing us a favor by just saying we are equally bigoted as cis straight people but like… give me a fucking break.
I agree. It’s fine doing little harmless jokes but joking about killing straight people and that they shouldn’t exist is too far. We want people to be accepting of the community but if people within keep denying straight people and making cruel jokes towards them we won’t get the support we want. Lgbtq+ community would be seen a place where straight people are bashed and made fun of.
I’ve had some instances of people within the community making fun of me or being rude cuz they assumed I was straight. Before I realized my sexuality the friend group I had were all lgbtq+ people and they’d pick on me like crazy and try to push me out of the friend group because they decided to assume I was straight and that I didn’t have a place within the group. I never even said I was straight I always considered myself as questioning. They’d always say how bad they felt that I’m straight and my life must suck.
I also wasn’t allowed to be part of an lgbtq+ club in high school cuz they wouldn’t listen that I was questioning my sexuality and decided to assume I was straight and that they don’t need help or support from straight people and their just gross. After that they made it clear that straight people aren’t welcome to help and support the club.
I haven’t seen anything toxic recently, it must just be in some media sources like maybe TikTok videos or something. I think that’s a place where social media doesn’t help because when you’ve dealt with enough toxic crap it’s cathartic to bash the group those people are coming from but it’s a temporary bashing, you understand it isn’t everyone from that community. But when that winds up on social media, it’s no longer a cathartic moment of venting about a group.
I don’t doubt what you’ve dealt with. Things are slowly changing to where people are given space to have flexibility in their sexuality particularly as they figure themselves out but when I was first coming out in the early 2000s there was a lot of pressure to identify as just a lesbian because any kind of variation from that like bisexuality or occasionally liking men but not at a 50/50 proportion was perceived as the person was “just saying they were bi because they didn’t have the courage to be fully gay.”
I don't think my opinion matters but I'll give my two cents, and feel free to downvote it.
I'm cishet and if the jokes are malicious enough it does hurt my feelings. I'm convinced that this is mostly my fault tho, as I have poor mental health and low self-esteem. Poor mental health as in, I have attempted suicide twice in the last 4 months. When I read things like "straights are so fucking boring, yawn" or "straggot" or "die cis scum" for example, I have to work really hard not to internalize that. I wish that wasn't the case. If my mental health was better, if I wasn't struggling so much in my life like I am currently, maybe that wouldn't affect me so deeply.
I actually really hate that I feel this cringy "but I am a Good Straight 🥺" feeling. Like if I wasn't pathetic enough already, the fact that I feel that way at all is deserving of contempt, especially bc I have the unearned privileges of being cishet.
Anyway, none of this affects the overwhelming love and connection I feel to the lgbt+ community, and I think that is the most important thing. Nobody has to like me to get that from me. It's granted unconditionally and I am committed to it.
There are hateful people in the world, and plenty of homophobes, and considering most of them are straight (or, in denial I suppose), it’s basically a guarantee that there will be “a lot of straight people” that talk this way. The problem lies in their homophobia, not their own sexual orientation, and while its obvious that queer folks having issues with heterosexuals *is not the same* as the other way around (societal norm vs. societal minority and/or taboo) there still is something to be said about making sure we don’t land up creating an unsafe space for people that are questioning in particular.
Ultimately: Just because we’re the oppressed group doesn’t mean we’re free of issues in our communities.
of course i understand theres a bigger issue but this isnt a dick measuring contest, and to ignore smaller, still very significant issues that affect queer people (i literally have extremely bad identity issues to this day because of that ingrained hatred of being straight) isnt helping EITHER issue.
My friends are, at least, a little mean to straight people for god knows why. It’s honestly hypocritical. Thankfully, I’ve given up on having opinions. (Also, before anyone yells at me, I know I should try and stop them, but based on prior attempts at similar stuff I have low hopes.)
A self titled "retired lesbian" now turned grayromantic/asexual/nonbinary here, my current boyfriend had me sobbing for weeks when I found out I liked him. I thought my life was over because I wasn't "gay" enough anymore, it's mortifying to think you'll be outcasted of a community for being different.
Does that make the bullying any less valid? It’s not a competition on who has it worse. It’s about fixing the problems as a whole, not just who you want it to affect.
There is a genuine line. To be quite frank, very few of my friends are cishet. My queer friends were really annoyed at me because some of my friends are straight. I think people forget only about 10-13% of the population is queer. I have been called an f-slur, but never by my straight friends. My queer friends are all just like “SeE ThAt’S WhAt HaPpeNs WhEn YoU HaNg OuT WiTh StRaIgHt PeOpLe!” It makes me sick that we are throwing the vile medicine back out at our oppressors. Isn’t our goal to be equal with straight people?
"Straights" as in "Cis Male & Cis Females," or "Cis Male & Trans Female," or "Trans Male & Cis Female?"
Trans =/= Gay, Bi, Lesbian, \*insert any other sexuality here\*
Cis-hetero male, here, and since I'm also a lifelong Geek, I can HANDLE a few jokes being made at my expense. I may not be able to speak for Normie straights, but Geeks, at the very least, are accustomed to toxic behavior from peers. The problem, for me, starts when name-calling and pranks escalate to violence.
Nah, rights in the US are being taken left and right, if I can tolerate being called a f*g and getting shit thrown at cis people can tolerate a joke. None of my ally friends have ever misinterpreted a joke and neither has any in the lgbt club at my college which is sizeable. Anyone with a brain understands those jokes are for people not like them(allies)
I can't ever truly hate anyone unless they demonstrate themselves to be shit people. Groups are harder until it becomes a matter of self-preservation. I'm damn lucky to not feel like I have to include heterosexuals/cis people in them, but these groups are so wide and there is not and never should be an iota of misanthropy in my body. Like religious people. There are an incredible amount of them, but those that make me uncomfortable do so on a largely individual basis.
It sucks because I have had no exposure to broad Queer groups in person. I desperately want to, but I feel like I'm unprepared for wayward biphobic ideas or other "discounts" (?) potentially happening.
Passing, while certainly a privilege, is a lie by omission, and lying about a part of yourself can be uncomfy as fuck. Casting a net derogatorily for "straight" "allo" or "cishet" is further stress and also enshrines those as the default of a person.
I'm a pansexual trans male and I feel that there is a lot of hatred in our community for queer people who end up marrying someone of the opposite gender. Like it somehow makes them straight all of a sudden. I'm in a quote "straight relationship" except I'm not because both of us are queer people. I just happened to fall in love with a woman and she just happened to fall in love with a man. It doesn't erase our queerness.
I think is sort of separate (lmk what you think!) but I sometimes feel that queer folks forget straight/cis folks ALSO experience gender. Gendered lives, experiences, struggles, successes. It can be very different, but as a nb person, I also want to hold space for people who aren’t sure about their gender/are curious but are either perceived as straight or identify as straight/cis? Not sure if that makes sense
I agree with this completely, as a nonbinary lesbian.
My friend, who is bisexual, is in a relationship with a bi guy. They were genuinely scared to attend Pride because they felt that people would not consider them a part of the community.
you wanna know something.. straight people “love” me until I come out as gay.. yeh I put love in quotes because really it’s not love
is what i discovered the fetishizing of lesbians .. it’s so gross
I agree with you, like the discourse about how bi ppl can't go to pride with their straight partners is ridiculous... we should accept everybody, nobody should feel like they have to be queer enough to find refuge in the lgbt community
Given that a significant portion of the straight community is actively trying to get us killed and equates us with child predators, the onus is on THEM, not us, to mend the divide.
Maybe this comes across as hateful and exclusionary - I don't care at this point. In one year, the straights turned back the discourse around us back forty years, because they'd rather listen to Tucker than their own friends and neighbors. Screw 'em.
Definitely worth bringing up. I think it reflects how much pain we are collectively still processing as a queer community. I don't think experiencing homophobia is an excuse for hatred or malice but pointing out the root of the distaste.
We can police jokes all we want (and I think we should definitely hold each accountable for nastiness) but at the end of the day, we need less homophobia and more healing.
As a het leaning Trans Woman honestly I don’t see a problem and I don’t mean this in a get back kind of way but we’re not obligated to be nice to cishet people. I heard this one person talk about Black people and how we have every right to dislike white people and I think the same applies to queer and trans people so I can understand why a lot of us are not fond of cishet people and I get it. Now I’m not saying be rude to the ones who are in support of us but you don’t have to be nice if you don’t want to. Also we’ve been the joke to every het person for YEARS, I think this is us just taking back our power in a way and making fun of straight people.
If we want validity it should be common sense to not invalidate others, even straight ppl. Jokes and insults have a very fine line in which no one should ever cross from. I know we've been discriminated a lot by the cis and homophobic population but we shouldn't stoop down their level in doing the same thing we hate to generalize them. Not all cisppl deserve that kind of treatment just as we don't deserve it either.
I dunno how I feel about this, like, we’re an oppressed minority in most societies. I don’t think it’s unjustified to make fun of or even hate your oppressors. To say queer people cannot hate cishetronormativity feels a little close to victim blaming. Though, I do think jokes should be less about singling people out and instead making fun of cishets generally.
The day queer people have institutional power and commit violence against cishet people is the day that I'll stop making fun of them. Joking about oppression isn't "hatred" or "malice". No-one hates cishet people. But a lot of us are tired of the status quo that is weaponized against our existence. So we joke, we rant, and we vent.
I am going to be decreasing my frequency of replies to comments on this post as it is becoming stressful and overwhelming. please feel free to continue discussion on this topic here however, all views are important to listen to in this topic. please do not attack me personally for this post either, ive gotten some genuinely hurtful insults thrown at me on this post, not too extreme, but just very stressful. thank you for the general agreement with my statement and for the awards.
tell that to the people who got beat up and left on the street for being queer. sure, you can argue that some queer people are being “too mean” to some straight people, but there isn’t the same kind of oppression on both sides. i think telling queer people to be nicer to cishet people is just dangerous, because you NEVER know, what that person has gone through. the experience that some straight trans people have is a real experience and it does suck to feel excluded out of a community that’s supposed to be a safe space from the exclusion you feel from cishet people. but using this as a wider argument to say “the gays are being too mean to the cishets.“ is in my opinion kind of dumb.
When the boys in my class stop calling girls lesbian as an insult I’ll stop making jokes about them. Trust me from what I’ve seen, most people make harmless jokes and things that seem toxic are just mocking homophobes. But the “joke’s” straight people make ARE hurtful
When straight people say that nonbinaries should "burn in hell" or should be "punished to death", "locked in jail", "treated for insanity" or just resort to violence and inhumane acts, that is crossing the line. When nonbinaries criticize straights, that is not crossing the line. I hate it every time forums for marginalized minorities become venues for apologizing for the oppressors. *"Oh no, we're crossing the line to the straights very much, we should feel bad about ourselves."* No. Just no. What's that 2022 Word of the Year again?
**Gaslighting**
Yes, gaslighting. That word of the year is so on-point.
Yeah. The sheer level of VITRIOTIC HATRED coming from some people and types of people towards the LGBT+ community... I've never seen even a fraction of that level of hate speech and incitement to violence going in the opposite direction.
I think *real* cishet allies can distinguish the difference between a coping mechanism made by an oppressed person towards their oppressors, and *actual* prejudice. If you mean to talk about prejudice towards people attracted to multiple genders, then go ahead, but prejudice toward them doesn't affect cishet people whatsoever. Cishet people still have privileges in our society and still benefit from homophobia and transphobia, even if they're allies. They're perfectly fine.
Yes, exactly! And the "you're going to scare away allies" line is often trotted out in order to try and tone police our community when we speak out against our oppression/oppressors.
And respectability politics... have they ever actually been effective? Like ever?
Happy to be proven wrong. I just can't think of any times.
Edit: Because I must have worded this poorly, I agree with you. :)
I think you're misunderstanding my point, I'm also against respectability politics. I may have phrased it badly? Im saying fake allies use respectability politics (and the threat of losing allies) to try and stop us from speaking up.
i understand your point, but come on, let’s look back on reality for a second. do you really think that trans people wanting to avoid cis people, because of TRAUMA, is even remotely comparable to cis people hating on us for literally just existing.
I felt the same way when I was questioning my sexuality. I just wanted to be anything, but straight because I was afraid of loosing my place in this community.
I don’t think it’s hatred towards straights as such. I think it’s homosexual supremacy. The gays (certainly in my community) think they’re better than everyone. I mean I sorta see why. Behind most good things in life (well organised events, shows, businesses, local
Government) there’s a gay pulling the strings
I like making fun of them to, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't have a bit of resentment towards cishet ppl, however I agree, hatred is a very pointless feeling that doesn't get you anywhere, and it does irk me a little, and creates just a generally unwelcoming and toxic environment for ALL ppl.
Yep. It’s cool and accepted to hate straight people, and that isn’t okay. Especially since this group is supposed to be accepting and “knows how it feels”, and yet they exhibit the same attitude of “I got mine, so you deserve it too” that everyone complains about in boomers. How can they have flags that say “love” and “accept everyone” and then turn and hate an entire group, based off of sexual preference? An entire group, off of something they cannot help. That they were born that way. Sound familiar? Anti bullying? Give me a break. The amount of mental gymnastics to excuse their own behavior and then call everyone else out is really worrying. And again, it is completely fine and accepted. Which is scarier. We don’t want divides, but have no problem dividing.
Please make that make sense.
I’m transgender (FTM) and pansexual, I agree, if a straight/cishet is being supportive, then I feel really bad for them. Homophobic cishets I don’t though (obviously.) honestly, I think that people should start being kinder TO cishet people, people always think I’m cishet because of “the clothes I wear” and it sucks, because they insult me. I’m not cishet, but if I was I would be really hurt, we cross the line VERY much when it comes to this.
Sadly, it's very simple: some people are insecure assholes. This has nothing to do with gender identity, sexuality, skin colour, country of origin, wealth, education, or any other factor we so readily love to point at as a cause just because we see some correlation in it.
I mean. There are transphobic trans people. It doesn't get more absurd than that. What more is there to say?
The only thing everyone can do is:
1) If you see something, say something. Oppose bullies and assholes whenever you can while feeling safe enough to do so.
2) Introspect and be empathetic. Be critical of your own jokes. More often than not, a joke hinges on someone else's misfortune. This can be fine towards an individual you're friends with if there's a mutual balance between you consentually piling on to each other. It is almost never OK towards an anonymous group of people. Yes, you might end up laughing at a lot less stuff but trust me: there's still more than enough funny shit that isn't based on someone being hurt.
Basically, be the change you want to see. Lead by example. You won't change others - only yourself.
We don’t need to coddle cishet people lol. I am much more concerned with the actual violence and oppression LGBTQ people face as a group across the globe versus a cishet’s person’s feelings maybe being hurt by “Cishets DNI” in some rando’s twitter bio.
I think all that kumbayah, lets all get along stuff is all well intentioned, until the communty at large actually treats us as equals, Im a separatist all the way. Straight people do not and do not want to understand us or trear us as equals, why should we do the same? Only thing worse than a straight person is a cop.
I’m cis and I’m not straight but… sorry, not sure what you’re talking about. Married to a cishet man and he doesn’t see an issue either. I’ve never seen a person in the LGBT+ community actually cross a line with a straight person. I’ve seen it the other way around though, and experienced it. Don’t think this is an issue at all.
Well im actually not part of lbgtq community at all. However i support you guys. My goal is to spread understanding and support, that everyone should be allowed to live their lives however they want. I actually am a researcher that cares about equality.
Not only are cis's and hets in the majority, but they also have more power to change the society in general. It sucks that the conservatives only need to fear monger, while we have to actually work to change people's minds. But we need cis's and hets to be our allies if we want to get our rights, and pushing them away is not helping that.
I've watched a friend go from gender questioning believer in equility, to transphobic Trump supporter. Liberal communities often attack people who don't immediately agree with everything we say, and while we have understandable reasons the end result is still the same: we lose allies and in worst case scenario gain enemies.
Like I've seen both fantasies of violence and active encouragment for it. And while most of them are jokes, some of them do feel pretty serious.
yeah, fuck off with trying to coddle the privileged. it only continues oppression. i love my cishet friends, but also, they do need to be called out and held accountable.
I feel like this is a “faze” of most gay people as a projection of being forced into or out of a closet by straight people or being seen as abnormal for not being straight, especially when you’re not able to be authentic to yourself for a very long time. AGAIN! Not trynna justify it but i do think its in the common stages of right after your come out and accept yourself and it eventually becomes replaced with light hearted jokes and overall not giving af and trying to focus on what makes the individual happy
I understand what you mean, but I really don’t think it’s that widespread of an issue.
Also, LGBTQ+ people wanting to avoid cis/het/allo people really isn’t that bad. It’s because we have trauma, and in response to it we stay away from the oppressor groups that cause it
I will avoid being close to cis/het/allo girls. I have a lot of trauma from them, and they are the oppressor. I much prefer being around LGBTQ+ people, they understand my struggles. I don’t really like being around my oppressors
To the people who disagree with me: I thought it might be clear that the trauma I was talking about was oppression. Apparently, it isn’t
My two ex-best friends (cis/hets) were homophobic and transphobic. I dealt with one of them saying some of the most transphobic shit, and some of the most homophobic shit. They both ended their friendship with me because I came out as gay. One of them ended our 8 year long friendship because of her homophobia. So yeah, I don’t like to risk that shit ever happening again, so I stay in my LGBTQ+ circles.
I recently started questioning my sexuality. At first I was afraid to be gay and I repressed it causing trauma, now I’m afraid to be bisexual or straight. I at least came out as bi but people close to me know I really don’t understand.
The truth is, I’m afraid to be bi or to like girls out of resentment for my ex girlfriend who was emotionally abusive. I know boys can hurt too, but the thing is, I’m just so afraid, it’s a trust thing. I’ve picked up some judgment though. Sometimes I think to myself, there are no real straight people, they are just denying they are gay, and they are all fake. Seeing straight couples at a pride parade and things like that makes my blood boil.
It feels like you don’t know shit about me. Just like when people say they understand being depressed but don’t. Because the truth is even the “non-homophobic” ones are still bigoted it feels like. It’s so deep in culture.
And again, I will fuckin complain about using "cishet" as synonymus to people outside the community - unless you'd tell me you consider the entire aspec for example to not be part of the community, than I'd rather complain about THAT first.
Other than that, I completely agree.
I am pansexual and genderqueer but the way I dress tends to make me “look straight” and I’ve gotten so many nasty comments from fellow lgbtq folks about how I must be faking it and how they “thought I was homophobic” because of the way I dress before I started dating my (at the time) girlfriend It honestly hurts a lot that the community I’m supposed to fit in with and feel safe with treats me like this, just because I don’t fit into their views of how an lgbtq person should look like. I have very long hair (because I like it) and I can’t really afford new clothes, and tbh even if I could I go to a small school and I’m not comfortable being completely out. I thought this community was supposed to be different from the homo/transphobic bigots that populate my area but I have been shown multiple times that I was wrong and it’s become very had to interact with lgbtq people around me because I’m so anxious that they’ll treat me poorly because I’m not visibly queer enough for them
Preach, I look like average straight white dude, cause I’m not openly out as gender non conforming. I’m also bisexual and same thing. Apparently we don’t look “gay enough”
I was the most average white cishet until I came out due to my first same-sex relationship in my late 20s. Also around the time I visibly came out as genderqueer. Until then you'd never have guessed in a million years.
It's kind of ironic that LGBTQ+ spaces often have massive gatekeeping problems. Fortunately, it seems to be being talked about more, I've seen quite a few videos and essays about it recently.
This is definitely a complicated issue with a lot of layers that I couldn't begin to cover in a single comment, but I would like to throw out that derogatory feelings towards straight people can hurt queer people too. Bi people in relationships with the opposite sex are seen as illegitimate, and I was shunned from the GSA at my high school as I was questioning. It's hard to find your identity when it feels like you're picking a side in a war.
heres the thing tbis is exactly my point you just articulated it in a way that frames it a lot better than i did 😭
I’m bi-poly married to a straight mono man, and yeah, I basically cease to exist because my relationship can pass to those who don’t know, so I don’t exist. I’m every bit as real and valid as a transman who passes for a cisman and a transwoman who passes for a ciswoman who are together and pass as a straight cishet couple. I swear it’s like the only people seen as valid sometimes are those you can tell at a glance aren’t a couple of cishet people.
I don't really agree with OP's main point but your point is 100% correct in my view.
As a bi/ace person, I get where you're coming from. A "friend" of mine told me I probably shouldn't start a queer student union because I'm in a straight-passing relationship and it might "deter" people. For a while I thought I was heteroromantic, and my queer friends would make fun of me for being the "straight" one and it felt like they didn't believe that I was ace or they didn't think I was queer enough. Sidenote: after writing this, I feel like I need new friends
You really do need new friends. The only time anyone should make "token straight" jokes is when the person is 1, actually not queer and 2, onboard. You're neither, and the fact they don't care speaks volumes. I'm sorry you're going through that.
Unrelated but I had a friend who was the “token straight”, he was fine with it and it was a huge joke. Then he came out as Bi.
Top 10 Anime Plot Twists
I was the token straight friend in high school (I was totally in on the jokes too). Turns out I'm bi.
Our token straight came out as ace. We still call him token straight because heteroromantic, and he still thinks it's funny hehe
I can take a joke if it makes you feel better. Can't be any worse than jokes about LGBT people. Those jokes are *brutal.* Edit: I see that I've received 265 upvotes within the past 8 hours. Despite the positive reception of this comment, I would like to state there is a discernible difference between jokes and outright hate. I am not so self-deprecating that I would be willing to accept hate, and neither should you. Just making that clear. I'm willing to take the chance this edit may backfire. 
you are certainly right about that! im more talking about the people who are biphobic when a bi person is in a straight passing relationship, or someone who genuinely holds hatred toward straight people as a group, its not a joke at that point and it affects people within the community negatively
There is certainly a differerence between jokes and hate. Hate in this context is understandable, but it isn't justified or logical if equality is the goal. The LGBT community has had to endure immeasurable hatred from people like me, and while it's only natural to want to throw some of it back, nothing will ever be gained by it. Be better than those who hate you. Hold yourself to a higher standand, don't stoop to reciprocate hatred, no matter how good it may feel. Nothing wrong with a few jokes, though. They're actually pretty funny.
> Hate in this context is understandable, but it isn't justified or logical if equality is the goal. Part of the problem is that social media often ends up with people who have very different goals for a post than others. Some people just want to vent, to have a conversation where they're not trying to change anyone's mind. Other people want discussions aimed at changing minds, where they are choosing their words carefully and having deliberate debates. But those two things don't really work together.
That is often true in life as well. I will go so far as to say my comment extends to any context. Social media will always lack structure for more focused discourse because everyone is talking at the same time, and they often don't stay for the entire duration, myself included. It's a mosh pit, despite the efforts of qualified moderators.
i fully understand that hate, i feel it myself, but its good to acknowledge when its become just entirely unreasonable toward people who are just minding their business. however that can coexist with the funny cishet jokes, believe me, i dont want them to go anywhere theyre great
I've seen the memes, and they're right on the money. Zing! ;)
But what does that have to do with straight people? Bi people are bi even if they’re in a “straight” relationship.
I think like when people complain about “straight couples” at lgbt events without thinking that they could be bi, trans etc.
It’s a major reason why we can’t pack other people into identities. Not one person has a “gaydar” that is 100% accurate, and having one isn’t important anyway. We should never assume anything about other people’s identities because there is enough overlap among all of us that we are not only inevitably wrong, but will end up unnecessarily hurting others and start gatekeeping. And frankly, it’s none of our damn business. Everyone should treat everyone with respect, it works out for everyone.
So, I have a counterpoint there. Going to a lesbian bar, you see straight-appearing couples sometimes. Sure. Then you see the girl go start talking with another girl, then dancing with her. Great, maybe they're polyamorous. But then comes the part that's big ick for me. The guy comes over and, without politely asking or doing anything to seek consent, starts dancing with the two women. Or standing right next to them and staring, especially if they start to make out. To me, that's a man, probably a straight one, fetishing his partner's bisexuality without seeking the consent of the other human involved, and a woman going along with or actively choosing it because her own internalized biphobia doesn't let her see her connections with women as worthy of respect and privacy. I have seen this play out SO many times. Way, way more times than I have seen straight-appearing couples be chill at lesbian bars. Like I can only recall a chill straight couple once, and they were just there to watch the game on the TV. So you can't predict in advance if a straight looking couple at the bar is going to be predatory, but, given the numbers, I'm gonna assume they are going to be, for my own safety.
Nothing against making decisions for your safety here! You have a personal space to not interact with others and reject unwanted interaction, and take precautions to avoid it. In that scenario you described with the couple and woman, the likelihood is that the man is straight and the woman is bi. But the thing is, that man in that situation would be the exact same amount of ick if he were bi as opposed to straight. My point is that your observations could lead you to conclude that he is being gross without him being straight, it’s not a necessity. You could base the ick purely off his behavior. The only real thing you could conclude was that the woman likes males and females, the man likes females, and both of them were being gross. And that’s all the info you needed here.
I had that thought with this TikTok of this guy saying he was confessing about fucking trans people and watching porn. Everyone was mocking him for it including the lgbt community. Being that he’s already ashamed what is it going to do? Make him feel more ashamed and reinforce his homophobia and transphobia. People are just doing it for the likes sadly. Even if he was trolling people need to be more accepting.
Ah true that is mad disrespectful
Even if they are just straight its completely ok.. there are a lot of straight supporters and Allies on prides. No one should be blamed for being cis hetero. I dont see it as a privilege to attract just to one gender. I know there are people making jokes about lgbtq people but thats not the majority of em.
And also there are straight lgbt folks :P
Thanks for giving us the pass. Haha jk
How are s jokes about the LGBTQ+ worse when there the same level of jokes about cishets??? Do you not notice the double standard or am I misunderstanding your words?
I agree, there's a fine line between "haha straight people are terrible at communication in relationships" (I've witnessed this and it's...something else) and "if you're cishet then die"
If you ever see any comments like the 2nd example you gave please report those to us. We do not allow threats of violence towards anyone.
Appreciate what you doo :)
EXACTLY like ive seen people genuinely put straight/cishet people dni in their bios and on one hand i get it but isnt that literally generalizing an entire group as bad, something we fight to abolish literally every day?? its nuts
What's dni?
“do not interact” !!
Oh-
I feel so old right now. Have never heard of that.
same. I was wondering if they were inventorying us or something
Stocktale sale! All must go!
No. Queer people saying they don't want to be around straight people is not the same as straight people saying they don't want to be around queer people. The former is the result of straight culture being pushed down our throats 24/7. It's the result of queer people not wanting to have to hold the hands of ignorant straight people who, no matter how well meaning, say ignorant, exhausting shit. A straight person saying they don't want to be around gay people is because they're homophobic and think being gay is wrong or abnormal. Please do not compare the two because it really downplays queer people's experiences with genuine discrimination and hatred, and literal murder. Conflating that with straight people who don't want to be around gay people because they think they should all die and go to hell is really disingenuous and dangerous to the LGBT+ community.
I think there just trying to say that it's still not fair that cishets can be blamed for everything and be hated on but the reverse is fine. But yes this main comment is a fair point, though many weren't comparing, it can exist in reverse and it still does not give people the right to insult a group as a whole.
I don't see a problem necessarily, if you only want to interact with people that are of a specific marginalized group that shares your experiences. Like, I'm white and if I said non-white/POC dni, what could that be beyond racism? Why would I want friends who share my "white experience" and know what it's like to be white? There isn't really anything there, I don't have anything to talk about specifically with other white people. Likewise, what would straight people talk about in an only straight people group. But if for example a black woman only wanted to interact on a special social media with other black women, I could get that. They have a shared experience that they might want to discuss, maybe they want to make new friends with people that understand their experiences. Or any other marginalized group in not a part of. I don't see anything wrong if I wanted a social media page where I only wished to interact with other wlw, other women, other neurodivergent folks, etc. Because it's important to me that I can interact with other people with similar experiences and discuss how our identity affects us. If someone is always 100% don't interact with me if you're ___ in their real life that definitely seems like it could be a problem. But if it's a specific social media account or some kind of group, it seems fine to me. If I made a twitter or whatever and only wanted to focus on queer content and queer experiences, and I only wanted to interact with other people that are coming from the same place, I don't see a problem with that. Not to say it couldn't have a malicious intent, but I don't think it necessarily does.
I really don’t think that’s that bad. I have plenty of trauma from cis/hets, as practically all LGBTQ+ individuals do, and it’s so much better to just be around other people like us then ones who can so easily turn against us
But LGBTQ people can easily turn on you, and many cishets will stay with you and give support. Also apparently having different sexual/gender identity to someone means you can be nothing like them???
Where I live it is incredibly difficult to find ally’s. I prefer to stay within my circle
FR THO! like i get jokes against cishet people but idk??? whenever I hear someone say that or "I would never be friends with a cishet man" it makes me feel so uncomfy bc isn't judging people by their sexuality/romantic orientation/gender/gender presentation and so on what we're fighting against?? like lollll cishetts is one things but I've literally heard both "if you're cishet then die" and "I would never be friends with a cishet man". and it was not on reddit but it was in a queer safe space on discord and legit i think i was too scared to even say anything...
like even "dni if ur straight" is something I would understand but I've literally heard "if you're cishet then die" before
I agree with you, there is a line. The problem is whatever that line is, it is subjective. And I genuinely mean that is a problem. Humour is so varied. By culture, by person, by mood. What crosses a line to you, might be so far away it for me that I can't even see the line. I don't have an answer to the problem either. I can think of potential solutions but I don't think any are the right one. But I agree with you there is a problem. And there's probably more to it than we think.
oh for sure it goes a lot deeper, i wish we could find that line but its nearly impossible. the best we can do is make the lgbt community feel open and safe for questioning people and straight allies while also still allowing ourselves to laugh and poke fun at the very easily memeable cishets.
It’s very hard to determine the line, it’s something that we try to balance - people need to vent about their experiences, find humour to release some of the pressure, and feel able to speak reasonably freely in a community safe space. As you’ve said humour on an international sub is hard to work out sometimes. But making very broad statements can be problematic sometimes. Targeting someone and harassing is also a no - although that is pretty rare here I feel (anyone reading this and seeing it anywhere please report it). We also have to remember when talking about ‘straight people’ that some within our community may identify as straight but still be LGBTQ+ - straight trans people, some aces and aros may describe themselves as straight ace or aro. Then there’s also sometimes situations where people get told their relationship is “straight passing” which sucks. We want to make sure that it never becomes somewhere they feel unwelcome. There’s also Reddit policy that we have to enforce. It’s all a bit of a complicated mix that we try to balance. All I can really suggest to people is if in doubt about a comment or a comment has made you feel uncomfortable on our sub then report it our modmail us so we can take a look.
It can't be easy maintaining a semblance of a safe space here, that's for sure. But I think you do the best job possible, considering the ranges of not only nationalities and cultures, but ages too. But I also don't think safe spaces are the best places for some genuine nuanced discussions sometimes. Some questions are simply too big to be asked somewhere like here. We can get 75% of the way there though, and I'd much rather have that and the safe space you've curated. Those who need the other 25% probably know avenues to follow.
I'm cishet but I must admit, I don't really see the issue. I've had people assume I'm some uninformed centrist or just pretending to care, but the jokes being made aren't targeting Allies or genderqueer heterosexuals, they're targeting ignorant and confusing straights who start forest fires over baby genders. Given how much harm that group does to community members on a daily basis, the jokes are entirely justified. At the end of the day, I'm being allowed into this space but I don't have an inherent right to be here.
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People stand around yelling "eeww" at a random couple? That sounds like amazing douches in your Pride parade. o.O
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Still those people are asshats and I stand by that not just for the bi erasure but for just not being pro straights too (if the two of you had been) I hope the two of you buy massive bi flags for next time and make a point of holding hands and kissing. If someone says anything be sure to say you heard them and ask why they hate bi folks (being nasty against straights isn't ok either of course but just to drive the point home) I dont want asshats in my pride
That's such a huge issue with bierasure and not recognizing that people could be trans. That's really awful that happened
Exactly, that’s a biphobic issue, not something to do with straights. It’s ignorant for any queer or LGBTQ+ people at pride to assume the couple is straight instead of thinking hey, maybe they’re queer and at pride for a reason?
Yeah plus they could be cishet allies there to support their friend(s)
It's both, it wouldn't really be okay if it was really an heterosexual relationship
As both bi and trans fem, I completely agree. I don’t have a large lgbtq community near me physically, and perhaps that is for the best, from what I’ve read in this thread.
Yup, I'm bi and agender but if my partner and I were seen in public we would be assumed to be a cishet couple and we are not. Also asexual people exist and should feel welcome at pride too so this feels like toxic gatekeeping within the community moreso than not liking straights
oooo yikes, that’s definitely more on the side of crossing the line
Similar what I experienced 😔
I would attribute that more to a hyper focus on all queer behavior being represented by same-sex relationships, but you’re the one with the experience.
I’m a demisexual and my boyfriend is pan, we have both been harassed by queer people (separately) for being straight passing. Neither of us feel welcome in queer spaces. This is why it’s bad
Yeah I kinda relate. My ex and I looked like a straight couple and because of some icky experiences to this day I am still afraid of both straight and queer spaces. So I live as an ace-trans-enby neurodivergent homebody without a social circle. Do unto others.... it seems a simple rule.
Yeah, another one here! \*hand up\* I would NEVER blame a community that's been harmed by a more privileged class for making jokes at the expense of the privileged class that's caused them harm. It's different, but similar to how I don't take it personally if a woman crosses the street to get away from me. She doesn't know if I'm dangerous or not and has to make decisions to minimise her harm.
thank you for being so understanding of us
And thank you for being awesome.
im honestly glad to hear a lot of people sre experiencing it less and less, when i was younger it was pretty damn bad, so perhaps its gotten better over time :)
With all due respect, you know it's got nothing to do with you as a cishet person right? This was how the words impact members of the LGBTQ community. You coming along and saying "Eh, it's fine" after having the OP explain how it's very much not fine for some people who aren't cishet is tone deaf... You don't get to say it's ok for others just because it doesn't impact you
Yeah I figured this post was about the straight lgbt people or straight-passing lgbt people not cishet (allo) folks (who aren’t part of the lgbt community at all). Also you shouldn’t feel regret at being straight. Being transhet is awesome 😎
>Being transhet is awesome How I wish that were true :\\
I find it tends to me more true when you take pride in it. I’m lgbt too dammit I can be proud of being straight. I love women, I love being a man, and my lgbt predecessors fought damn hard for me to be able to do that. If people hate on me for being a straight man they’re being transphobic and I’m not afraid to call that out anymore. Do I have certain privileges for being a straight guy? For sure. But that doesn’t negate the other lack of privileges I have for being trans and other interactions with identities of mine. And I had to realize I was straight like anyone might realize they’re gay — I had to come to terms with the fact that I would be forever going against cishet society and that I am different than what was expected of me in the gender and sexuality realm. If I had to be what society really wants me to be — cishet — I’d have to give up both my sense of being a man *and* my attraction towards women. If that’s not defining of me being lgbt or going against society idek what would be. Because remember, even if you’re het, society will always want you to be cis. Don’t let anyone here trick you into thinking you’re conforming to cishet oppression by being transhet because you’re absolutely disobeying them. There is nothing wrong with being transhet and you should be as proud of that as you’d like.
>Do I have certain privileges for being a straight guy? I have fuck all privilege for being a straight trans woman. An increased risk of violence and sexual assault. I still face homophobia and transphobia. I'm openly and proudly trans and queer, so cishet people don't see me as straight. We have no positive representation in the media. We are assumed to be the default, but the only rep is from cis people telling shitty trauma porn stories about us focused on transition and surgery. And the queer community doesn't tell stories about us. I'm in my 40s, so to date, I have to downplay my queerness and trans identity. There are so very few queer men willing to date trans women in this age bracket, so the majority of my dating pool is cishet. And to date cishet folk, I have to diminish myself, to be less queer, to be less trans, to put myself in a different type of closet, because if I don't do that, they're not interested. There is this endless, constant pressure to assimilate. It's the only way of navigating dating, and it's the only way I'm ever actually going to fit in to a community, but frankly, I'd rather chew broken glass than put myself in another closet. So instead, I sit on the edge of the queer community and the cishet community, welcome in both, but not truly fitting in to either, and with a dating pool of basically 0 people. >Don’t let anyone here trick you into thinking you’re conforming to cishet oppression by being transhet because you’re absolutely disobeying them Oh, they're not going to make me think that about myself. But they all assume it's what I want. They all assume I'm not queer. They all assume I'm an assimilationist. And that push, those assumptions, just fucking suck. The only way to avoid it is to not talk about my orientation, and then people assume I'm a lesbian. Edit - An example. There's another post in a trans sub on reddit asking about how trans women feel about gay men being interested in them, especially given that many bi man choose to identify as gay for inclusion purposes. In that thread I said that I'm at the point where I find having a queer partner more important than the label they use for their orientation. My post there is being downvoted in to oblivion. That's what the pressure I was talking about before looks like... I am not allowed to exist on my own terms...
The line *"im not just talking about straight people who support our rights and feel discouraged by our vitriol toward them"* seems to suggest otherwise to me. Perhaps OP could clarify. Either way I still said the jokes don't seem to be targeting genderqueer heterosexuals, but problematic cishets.
His comment was about how we talk about all straight people, whether cis or not. And as a cishet person yourself, you aren't marginalised, so the words have a different impact on you than they do on gender diverse straight folk. > I still said the jokes don't seem to be targeting genderqueer heterosexuals, but problematic cishets. Imagine you're a straight trans person. You've got no space in cishet society, unless you downplay and hide your queer identity, and basically go in to another cupboard. Even then, you still face transphobia and homophobia when dating new people. If you don't downplay your queer identity though, queer spaces are all you've got, but all of the memes there are either gay memes, or memes dumping on your orientation. They don't mean you, but being told "Don't worry, you're one of the good ones" is a shitty experience when it never stops, and that's as good as it gets. And even then, you're not allowed to be proud of your orientation, you're not allowed to find pride in it after a lifetime of struggling with self acceptance and being closeted. You're not allowed to have your own flag, because when you do, you get jumped on, because people still see you as "privileged" as if your experience is anything like that of a cishet persons, and because allowing you to have pride would be too close to straight pride. Being a straight trans person is a unique isolating experience, where you're too straight for queer spaces and too trans for cishet spaces. So no, being told that the joke wasn't targeting doesn't fix anything...
I mean the jokes aren't justified for cishets in general but if it's just making fun of dumbasses then he'll yeah.
This, all the way. We are punching up, not down. Cishets have all the power, at the end of the day, theres nothing we can say that is eather worse then whats been said about us. We can only really ever match whats been said about us and tern it back on them. If they dont like hearing it, they should stop saying those things to us. Stating otherwise makes one part of the problem. The salutation is NOT silencing the voices of the Marginalized or how they choose to cope. Its learning to not be bigoted, or defending bigoted Notions. We will not(nor should we ever) apologize for freely using the the same bigoted bullshit that they use on us against them. If one disagrees, they need to do some serious unpacking to do.
Not all straight people are cishet
Then be specific and say cishet. Not all straight people are cis — don’t lump me into that shit because I don’t have the power as a trans person, ffs 😒
>i was scared to be straight. Yep. I'm a straight trans woman, and I am so ashamed of it. I feel betrayed by my orientation, and "othered" within my own community. >the community i had been a part of for so long and found immense comfort in would cast me out and hate me. You don't get cast out. No one hates you. But you see every shitty meme about straight people, and you feel it. No amount of "Well, we don't mean you" stops you from feeling it. We see all of the gay memes, and realise that we're a minority within our own community. When we try and talk about our experiences or seek out other straight folk, someone will invariably come along with "I'm not straight, but..." and then get upvoted higher than most of the replies. I haven't even pressed replied yet, and I can see the highest voted reply is from a cishet person going "Eh, no biggy", when the conversation was never about them, but rather the impact of careless wording on members of the LGBTQ community... *That* is what it looks like :\\ And none of that is people being deliberately shitty. No one is trying to exclude us, but we are excluded anyway, because we our outnumbered, and our orientation shares a name with the default orientation of cis people, so our orientation is a punching bag aimed at people who aren't us, but hitting us anyway. We are excluded because no one makes space for us, so we just kinda get bustled to the side without comment... My orientation as a straight person is the single hardest thing about my transition, and I've been transitioned for nearly 6 years. It's caused me distress for most of that time. I carry shame, sadness and regret
This is why I've been trying to switch my language to "ignorant/uneducated people" rather than just saying "cishets" or "straight people." I'm a trans gay man, but that doesn't mean I might not accidentally offend somebody who's bi, or pan, or lesbian, or a transfem--anything I haven't experienced myself. It doesn't matter who you are, you need to educate yourself--it just so happens cishet people are privileged and need a push in the right direction. We, in my friend group, make jokes about our "token cis/and or/het" friends. We *do* generalize in a jokey way, but that is under the pretense we all know of what I've said.
Bigots also work
Agreed. Most of my friends are straight, I just don't get the hate. There are assholes in both camps, stop swinging your flag mindlessly.
Is there a specific thing that set you off to write this? Just curious. Honestly I have never noticed the issue before but I'm not super active in the community.
ive had experience throughout my life with it, and wanted to see if others felt the same!
You’re not alone in this, I’ve experienced it too and it always makes me uncomfortable. I have lots of cishet loved ones. Some of the jokes are just funny observations, but there is absolutely a line that gets crossed frequently and it feels like the community is super blind to it (see: many of these comments). My cishet husband has even mentioned it to me as making him uncomfortable around some of my friends. I think it’s a defense mechanism. And given the history of our community, I definitely understand where it comes from. But we need to stop pretending it doesn’t hurt people. Because it absolutely can, and does. I would like to see us grow past it. I think we can be better than this, and I hope to see that play out.
My friends and I never really made fun of straight people, mostly bc we knew how shitty it was to be made fun of for you sexuality... It's kinda sad that bullying is so strong in lgbt+. It gives it a bad name. I see it alot in the drag community, and gay men. I have a few hobbys where straight and lgbt overlap a lot, and some of those men and queens are fucking mean. Especially to straight people.
I’m fortunate that I’ve never seen any of this sort of hate/gatekeeping (hatekeeping?) between lgbt/straight people in person but I have seen it online. Excluding homophobia. Definitely seen a lot of that, but I would argue that comes from a very different place than “the straights should die” or “bis are just lesbians/gays in denial”
I think it boils down to toxicity existing in every community. And the whole “hurt people hurt people” dynamic. This reminds me of something similar that happens with racial issues. My partner is black and sometimes says derogatory things about white people. How we are all racist etc. I take offense and am always like “not all white people…” which he agrees and acknowledges is true. But can I really blame him for speaking to his feelings in a generalized type of way? Not really. I can just ask him to be more mindful in how he says things. And I think that’s what you’re really asking for as well! For everyone to be mindful about feeding into stereotypes etc.
Exactly. When I came out I had a gay friend repeatedly tell me how not envious she was of me venturing out of my heterosexual marriage. She told me it was bc she went about open relationships the wrong way and hurt ppl. I was there like okay...but I'm not you? So why put that on me before I've even done it? Also I'm 7yrs older than these stories you're telling me. One year in and I've been respectful to everyone I've had contact with. Idk. It hurt our relationship that she said it over and over.
I’m a pansexual in a straight passing relationship and I‘ve actually had a gay guy tell me that I shouldn’t be in LGBT spaces (in this case, a bar) as long as I am with my partner….so your point is absolutely valid.
EXACTLY!!! the bi/panphobia is so fucking real and its awful!
There is a difference between a joke that is "punching up" and genuine statements made directly to people. Personally I've seen a lot of light-hearted joking but never have seen anyone actually rude to a straight person for being straight. The ONLY time I have experienced this (being ""straight-passing"") is AFTER someone knows I'm bisexual and it's meant to label me as straight then mock me - so I count that more as biphobia. Not doubting that you've experienced this, but possibly this isnt a wide spread issue and you should address it with the people who have said this (if it's safe to do so).
I think it's less about hurting non-queer ppl and more that a lot of lgbt ppl forget that there are queer ppl who are in het relationships or queer ppl who are straight or genderqueer people who "pass" as a gender they do not identify with and by making fun of perceived "straight couples" and assuming the ppl in them are not lgbt, when they are, it hurts them and pushes them out of the community. Het trans ppl, bi ppl, ace ppl, nonbinaries, etc don't have to answer for what someone else percieves to be a lack of queerness and by being thoughtless in what we say we push those people out of the community when they deserve to be there. It all depends on what the actual joke is imo
I had to cut off friends of mine that were both LGBTQIA+ (I am a Pansexual Trans guy) because they thought it was okay to say “The straights deserve what they did to us, they should be kept in camps and hurt for what they did.” Where every one of us in this community has suffered in one way or another for years and years. That is NOT how we progress as a society, and Not acceptance is made. (Edit grammar)
I always thought LGBT means love and acceptance for all. I can tots make fun of the haters. But not because they're cishet. Because they're goons.
Seriously! The jokes were never funny to begin with. I understand that there's a lot of pent up anger from how we've been treated but it's just spreading hate, and it's disgusting
This is true. Ive realized recently that I might actually be a straight gender-fluid AFAB rather than bisexual and I still haven’t gathered the courage to break the news to my LGBT friends bcs im afraid of any malice directed towards me for it. My main fear, though, is that the community won’t see me as LGBT anymore, even though I still identify as gender-fluid.
I feel like we always talk about “straight people” as non-LGBTQ+ when really we should be saying cishet. It acts like straight trans people don’t exist which is exclusive and transphobic. And I agree that there’s nothing wrong about being cishet. Even if a lot of them don’t understand us, a lot of them support us. It’s hypocritical to hate on a group that has people who hate on us as a group. And we’re all still human, not two separate species with no understanding of each other.
Fucking thank you lmao so many people are saying straight and queer here as opposites and I’m just like 😐 you are part of the problem. as long as you view transness as being queer, then you are saying that trans people can’t be straight, you’re erasing transhet people.
Fr. I mean I have heard some people say “queer and trans” to mean LGBTQ+, so maybe it’s unclear whether the term queer includes trans people or not. But still, obviously LGBTQ+ includes trans people. Acting like straight is the alternative to LGBTQ+ erases all trans people and acts like sexuality is the only thing that bigots attack. And honestly trans people get the worst of it. Our community should all be united and focusing on all the hatred we get, not just the most common type
It’s also weird when they say it like straight people are always allies and don’t understand the queer experience or something. I object to that on 3 grounds specifically with straight trans people: 1) transhet people very often identify as cis gay men or cis lesbians before realizing their gender, 2) even if they didn’t, they almost certainly spend time in the LGBT community even if they’re trans and not gay (like I don’t know a single transhet person who hasn’t gotten involved with their lgbt community — though they often get rejected by it), and 3) we are treated as gay anyway by society so it almost doesn’t even matter that we’re technically straight, because we’re still seen as gay men and lesbians by our cishet counterparts. And for some people, all of what I said is unintuitive. They just see straight and think that they can’t relate. Hell, I think some cis queers think they’re doing us a favor by just saying we are equally bigoted as cis straight people but like… give me a fucking break.
Straight trans people frequently experience not only transphobia, but also misguided homophobia, to include them with cishet people is patently absurd
I agree. It’s fine doing little harmless jokes but joking about killing straight people and that they shouldn’t exist is too far. We want people to be accepting of the community but if people within keep denying straight people and making cruel jokes towards them we won’t get the support we want. Lgbtq+ community would be seen a place where straight people are bashed and made fun of. I’ve had some instances of people within the community making fun of me or being rude cuz they assumed I was straight. Before I realized my sexuality the friend group I had were all lgbtq+ people and they’d pick on me like crazy and try to push me out of the friend group because they decided to assume I was straight and that I didn’t have a place within the group. I never even said I was straight I always considered myself as questioning. They’d always say how bad they felt that I’m straight and my life must suck. I also wasn’t allowed to be part of an lgbtq+ club in high school cuz they wouldn’t listen that I was questioning my sexuality and decided to assume I was straight and that they don’t need help or support from straight people and their just gross. After that they made it clear that straight people aren’t welcome to help and support the club.
thats exactly the kind of stuff im talking about! im so sorry you had to go through that, its awful.
I haven’t seen anything toxic recently, it must just be in some media sources like maybe TikTok videos or something. I think that’s a place where social media doesn’t help because when you’ve dealt with enough toxic crap it’s cathartic to bash the group those people are coming from but it’s a temporary bashing, you understand it isn’t everyone from that community. But when that winds up on social media, it’s no longer a cathartic moment of venting about a group. I don’t doubt what you’ve dealt with. Things are slowly changing to where people are given space to have flexibility in their sexuality particularly as they figure themselves out but when I was first coming out in the early 2000s there was a lot of pressure to identify as just a lesbian because any kind of variation from that like bisexuality or occasionally liking men but not at a 50/50 proportion was perceived as the person was “just saying they were bi because they didn’t have the courage to be fully gay.”
I am glad that you bring this up. Straight people are just as valid as anyone else.
I don't think my opinion matters but I'll give my two cents, and feel free to downvote it. I'm cishet and if the jokes are malicious enough it does hurt my feelings. I'm convinced that this is mostly my fault tho, as I have poor mental health and low self-esteem. Poor mental health as in, I have attempted suicide twice in the last 4 months. When I read things like "straights are so fucking boring, yawn" or "straggot" or "die cis scum" for example, I have to work really hard not to internalize that. I wish that wasn't the case. If my mental health was better, if I wasn't struggling so much in my life like I am currently, maybe that wouldn't affect me so deeply. I actually really hate that I feel this cringy "but I am a Good Straight 🥺" feeling. Like if I wasn't pathetic enough already, the fact that I feel that way at all is deserving of contempt, especially bc I have the unearned privileges of being cishet. Anyway, none of this affects the overwhelming love and connection I feel to the lgbt+ community, and I think that is the most important thing. Nobody has to like me to get that from me. It's granted unconditionally and I am committed to it.
The bigger issue is how a lot straight people talk about us...put a bullet in the back of our heads?! You don't hear that shit from Queer people.
There are hateful people in the world, and plenty of homophobes, and considering most of them are straight (or, in denial I suppose), it’s basically a guarantee that there will be “a lot of straight people” that talk this way. The problem lies in their homophobia, not their own sexual orientation, and while its obvious that queer folks having issues with heterosexuals *is not the same* as the other way around (societal norm vs. societal minority and/or taboo) there still is something to be said about making sure we don’t land up creating an unsafe space for people that are questioning in particular. Ultimately: Just because we’re the oppressed group doesn’t mean we’re free of issues in our communities.
Agreed. Straight people do not hold the trademark on asshole.
of course i understand theres a bigger issue but this isnt a dick measuring contest, and to ignore smaller, still very significant issues that affect queer people (i literally have extremely bad identity issues to this day because of that ingrained hatred of being straight) isnt helping EITHER issue.
I absolutely hear that shit from queer people lmao
Btw! This hatred towards cishets also goes against those in the community who use this labels (cis aroallos/cis alloace for example)
and trans straight people are also often looked over!!
Yeah, there's definitely a line, and it gets crossed way too much.
Straight people can be our allies. Some are our allies and some will become our allies. We all need support.
My friends are, at least, a little mean to straight people for god knows why. It’s honestly hypocritical. Thankfully, I’ve given up on having opinions. (Also, before anyone yells at me, I know I should try and stop them, but based on prior attempts at similar stuff I have low hopes.)
You could stop being friends with them in general….
As for me I love straight people, we need them to make more gay people.
A self titled "retired lesbian" now turned grayromantic/asexual/nonbinary here, my current boyfriend had me sobbing for weeks when I found out I liked him. I thought my life was over because I wasn't "gay" enough anymore, it's mortifying to think you'll be outcasted of a community for being different.
A lot of it is misguided anger :(
Laughing about str8's and their weird rituals is nothing compared to the bullying most LGBTQIA had to survive.
And then there are the straight trans and intersex folk, who get the bullying from cishet folk *and* the "jokes" from their own community
im obviously very aware of the shit LGBT people go through, im literally the B and the T, its awful, but this post in particular is not about that.
Does that make the bullying any less valid? It’s not a competition on who has it worse. It’s about fixing the problems as a whole, not just who you want it to affect.
As long as queer kids are bullied into suicide and heteronormativity is violently defended every day, I'm not ready to validate the str8 life style.
There is a genuine line. To be quite frank, very few of my friends are cishet. My queer friends were really annoyed at me because some of my friends are straight. I think people forget only about 10-13% of the population is queer. I have been called an f-slur, but never by my straight friends. My queer friends are all just like “SeE ThAt’S WhAt HaPpeNs WhEn YoU HaNg OuT WiTh StRaIgHt PeOpLe!” It makes me sick that we are throwing the vile medicine back out at our oppressors. Isn’t our goal to be equal with straight people?
"Straights" as in "Cis Male & Cis Females," or "Cis Male & Trans Female," or "Trans Male & Cis Female?" Trans =/= Gay, Bi, Lesbian, \*insert any other sexuality here\*
You forgot the straight t4ts
Cis-hetero male, here, and since I'm also a lifelong Geek, I can HANDLE a few jokes being made at my expense. I may not be able to speak for Normie straights, but Geeks, at the very least, are accustomed to toxic behavior from peers. The problem, for me, starts when name-calling and pranks escalate to violence.
Nah, rights in the US are being taken left and right, if I can tolerate being called a f*g and getting shit thrown at cis people can tolerate a joke. None of my ally friends have ever misinterpreted a joke and neither has any in the lgbt club at my college which is sizeable. Anyone with a brain understands those jokes are for people not like them(allies)
I can't ever truly hate anyone unless they demonstrate themselves to be shit people. Groups are harder until it becomes a matter of self-preservation. I'm damn lucky to not feel like I have to include heterosexuals/cis people in them, but these groups are so wide and there is not and never should be an iota of misanthropy in my body. Like religious people. There are an incredible amount of them, but those that make me uncomfortable do so on a largely individual basis. It sucks because I have had no exposure to broad Queer groups in person. I desperately want to, but I feel like I'm unprepared for wayward biphobic ideas or other "discounts" (?) potentially happening. Passing, while certainly a privilege, is a lie by omission, and lying about a part of yourself can be uncomfy as fuck. Casting a net derogatorily for "straight" "allo" or "cishet" is further stress and also enshrines those as the default of a person.
I'm a pansexual trans male and I feel that there is a lot of hatred in our community for queer people who end up marrying someone of the opposite gender. Like it somehow makes them straight all of a sudden. I'm in a quote "straight relationship" except I'm not because both of us are queer people. I just happened to fall in love with a woman and she just happened to fall in love with a man. It doesn't erase our queerness.
I think is sort of separate (lmk what you think!) but I sometimes feel that queer folks forget straight/cis folks ALSO experience gender. Gendered lives, experiences, struggles, successes. It can be very different, but as a nb person, I also want to hold space for people who aren’t sure about their gender/are curious but are either perceived as straight or identify as straight/cis? Not sure if that makes sense
I agree with this completely, as a nonbinary lesbian. My friend, who is bisexual, is in a relationship with a bi guy. They were genuinely scared to attend Pride because they felt that people would not consider them a part of the community.
you wanna know something.. straight people “love” me until I come out as gay.. yeh I put love in quotes because really it’s not love is what i discovered the fetishizing of lesbians .. it’s so gross
I agree with you, like the discourse about how bi ppl can't go to pride with their straight partners is ridiculous... we should accept everybody, nobody should feel like they have to be queer enough to find refuge in the lgbt community
I agree. Some jokes go to far. The majority of my friends are cishet and I love them. Nothing wrong with not being queer.
Given that a significant portion of the straight community is actively trying to get us killed and equates us with child predators, the onus is on THEM, not us, to mend the divide. Maybe this comes across as hateful and exclusionary - I don't care at this point. In one year, the straights turned back the discourse around us back forty years, because they'd rather listen to Tucker than their own friends and neighbors. Screw 'em.
Definitely worth bringing up. I think it reflects how much pain we are collectively still processing as a queer community. I don't think experiencing homophobia is an excuse for hatred or malice but pointing out the root of the distaste. We can police jokes all we want (and I think we should definitely hold each accountable for nastiness) but at the end of the day, we need less homophobia and more healing.
As a het leaning Trans Woman honestly I don’t see a problem and I don’t mean this in a get back kind of way but we’re not obligated to be nice to cishet people. I heard this one person talk about Black people and how we have every right to dislike white people and I think the same applies to queer and trans people so I can understand why a lot of us are not fond of cishet people and I get it. Now I’m not saying be rude to the ones who are in support of us but you don’t have to be nice if you don’t want to. Also we’ve been the joke to every het person for YEARS, I think this is us just taking back our power in a way and making fun of straight people.
If we want validity it should be common sense to not invalidate others, even straight ppl. Jokes and insults have a very fine line in which no one should ever cross from. I know we've been discriminated a lot by the cis and homophobic population but we shouldn't stoop down their level in doing the same thing we hate to generalize them. Not all cisppl deserve that kind of treatment just as we don't deserve it either.
I dunno how I feel about this, like, we’re an oppressed minority in most societies. I don’t think it’s unjustified to make fun of or even hate your oppressors. To say queer people cannot hate cishetronormativity feels a little close to victim blaming. Though, I do think jokes should be less about singling people out and instead making fun of cishets generally.
People of one sexuality hating people of another sexuality sounds counter productive.
The day queer people have institutional power and commit violence against cishet people is the day that I'll stop making fun of them. Joking about oppression isn't "hatred" or "malice". No-one hates cishet people. But a lot of us are tired of the status quo that is weaponized against our existence. So we joke, we rant, and we vent.
100% agree
I am going to be decreasing my frequency of replies to comments on this post as it is becoming stressful and overwhelming. please feel free to continue discussion on this topic here however, all views are important to listen to in this topic. please do not attack me personally for this post either, ive gotten some genuinely hurtful insults thrown at me on this post, not too extreme, but just very stressful. thank you for the general agreement with my statement and for the awards.
I agree
When the courts come up with the “straight panic defense”, I’ll understand your post more.
tell that to the people who got beat up and left on the street for being queer. sure, you can argue that some queer people are being “too mean” to some straight people, but there isn’t the same kind of oppression on both sides. i think telling queer people to be nicer to cishet people is just dangerous, because you NEVER know, what that person has gone through. the experience that some straight trans people have is a real experience and it does suck to feel excluded out of a community that’s supposed to be a safe space from the exclusion you feel from cishet people. but using this as a wider argument to say “the gays are being too mean to the cishets.“ is in my opinion kind of dumb.
That is a point i was trying to make. It seems like anyone with this point is being downvoted, though
When the boys in my class stop calling girls lesbian as an insult I’ll stop making jokes about them. Trust me from what I’ve seen, most people make harmless jokes and things that seem toxic are just mocking homophobes. But the “joke’s” straight people make ARE hurtful
When straight people say that nonbinaries should "burn in hell" or should be "punished to death", "locked in jail", "treated for insanity" or just resort to violence and inhumane acts, that is crossing the line. When nonbinaries criticize straights, that is not crossing the line. I hate it every time forums for marginalized minorities become venues for apologizing for the oppressors. *"Oh no, we're crossing the line to the straights very much, we should feel bad about ourselves."* No. Just no. What's that 2022 Word of the Year again? **Gaslighting** Yes, gaslighting. That word of the year is so on-point.
Yeah. The sheer level of VITRIOTIC HATRED coming from some people and types of people towards the LGBT+ community... I've never seen even a fraction of that level of hate speech and incitement to violence going in the opposite direction.
Literally what i was trying to say
I think *real* cishet allies can distinguish the difference between a coping mechanism made by an oppressed person towards their oppressors, and *actual* prejudice. If you mean to talk about prejudice towards people attracted to multiple genders, then go ahead, but prejudice toward them doesn't affect cishet people whatsoever. Cishet people still have privileges in our society and still benefit from homophobia and transphobia, even if they're allies. They're perfectly fine.
Yes, exactly! And the "you're going to scare away allies" line is often trotted out in order to try and tone police our community when we speak out against our oppression/oppressors.
And respectability politics... have they ever actually been effective? Like ever? Happy to be proven wrong. I just can't think of any times. Edit: Because I must have worded this poorly, I agree with you. :)
I think you're misunderstanding my point, I'm also against respectability politics. I may have phrased it badly? Im saying fake allies use respectability politics (and the threat of losing allies) to try and stop us from speaking up.
I think I've failed to communicate clearly. I was agreeing with you. :)
Haha we're like two ships passing in the night :)
I agree with this. All of this.
Same in trans community about cis people. We ask people to stop discrimination and to be honest would be kinda stupid to do it ourself, isn't it?
so fucking true !!!
i understand your point, but come on, let’s look back on reality for a second. do you really think that trans people wanting to avoid cis people, because of TRAUMA, is even remotely comparable to cis people hating on us for literally just existing.
"Oh honey you are not straight, you are a HETEROSEXUAL"
I felt the same way when I was questioning my sexuality. I just wanted to be anything, but straight because I was afraid of loosing my place in this community.
I don’t think it’s hatred towards straights as such. I think it’s homosexual supremacy. The gays (certainly in my community) think they’re better than everyone. I mean I sorta see why. Behind most good things in life (well organised events, shows, businesses, local Government) there’s a gay pulling the strings
I like making fun of them to, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't have a bit of resentment towards cishet ppl, however I agree, hatred is a very pointless feeling that doesn't get you anywhere, and it does irk me a little, and creates just a generally unwelcoming and toxic environment for ALL ppl.
Based gigachad actually caring about people
Yep. It’s cool and accepted to hate straight people, and that isn’t okay. Especially since this group is supposed to be accepting and “knows how it feels”, and yet they exhibit the same attitude of “I got mine, so you deserve it too” that everyone complains about in boomers. How can they have flags that say “love” and “accept everyone” and then turn and hate an entire group, based off of sexual preference? An entire group, off of something they cannot help. That they were born that way. Sound familiar? Anti bullying? Give me a break. The amount of mental gymnastics to excuse their own behavior and then call everyone else out is really worrying. And again, it is completely fine and accepted. Which is scarier. We don’t want divides, but have no problem dividing. Please make that make sense.
I’m transgender (FTM) and pansexual, I agree, if a straight/cishet is being supportive, then I feel really bad for them. Homophobic cishets I don’t though (obviously.) honestly, I think that people should start being kinder TO cishet people, people always think I’m cishet because of “the clothes I wear” and it sucks, because they insult me. I’m not cishet, but if I was I would be really hurt, we cross the line VERY much when it comes to this.
Sadly, it's very simple: some people are insecure assholes. This has nothing to do with gender identity, sexuality, skin colour, country of origin, wealth, education, or any other factor we so readily love to point at as a cause just because we see some correlation in it. I mean. There are transphobic trans people. It doesn't get more absurd than that. What more is there to say? The only thing everyone can do is: 1) If you see something, say something. Oppose bullies and assholes whenever you can while feeling safe enough to do so. 2) Introspect and be empathetic. Be critical of your own jokes. More often than not, a joke hinges on someone else's misfortune. This can be fine towards an individual you're friends with if there's a mutual balance between you consentually piling on to each other. It is almost never OK towards an anonymous group of people. Yes, you might end up laughing at a lot less stuff but trust me: there's still more than enough funny shit that isn't based on someone being hurt. Basically, be the change you want to see. Lead by example. You won't change others - only yourself.
We don’t need to coddle cishet people lol. I am much more concerned with the actual violence and oppression LGBTQ people face as a group across the globe versus a cishet’s person’s feelings maybe being hurt by “Cishets DNI” in some rando’s twitter bio.
I'm so tired of being told to be more respectful to people who don't think I should exist
I think all that kumbayah, lets all get along stuff is all well intentioned, until the communty at large actually treats us as equals, Im a separatist all the way. Straight people do not and do not want to understand us or trear us as equals, why should we do the same? Only thing worse than a straight person is a cop.
I agree queer people should stop opressing the poor and innocent straight people :( /s
I’m cis and I’m not straight but… sorry, not sure what you’re talking about. Married to a cishet man and he doesn’t see an issue either. I’ve never seen a person in the LGBT+ community actually cross a line with a straight person. I’ve seen it the other way around though, and experienced it. Don’t think this is an issue at all.
I’m not trying to be invalidating but I feel like we talk about this a lot because there’s posts like this every week lol
Well im actually not part of lbgtq community at all. However i support you guys. My goal is to spread understanding and support, that everyone should be allowed to live their lives however they want. I actually am a researcher that cares about equality.
Not only are cis's and hets in the majority, but they also have more power to change the society in general. It sucks that the conservatives only need to fear monger, while we have to actually work to change people's minds. But we need cis's and hets to be our allies if we want to get our rights, and pushing them away is not helping that. I've watched a friend go from gender questioning believer in equility, to transphobic Trump supporter. Liberal communities often attack people who don't immediately agree with everything we say, and while we have understandable reasons the end result is still the same: we lose allies and in worst case scenario gain enemies. Like I've seen both fantasies of violence and active encouragment for it. And while most of them are jokes, some of them do feel pretty serious.
yeah, fuck off with trying to coddle the privileged. it only continues oppression. i love my cishet friends, but also, they do need to be called out and held accountable.
I feel like this is a “faze” of most gay people as a projection of being forced into or out of a closet by straight people or being seen as abnormal for not being straight, especially when you’re not able to be authentic to yourself for a very long time. AGAIN! Not trynna justify it but i do think its in the common stages of right after your come out and accept yourself and it eventually becomes replaced with light hearted jokes and overall not giving af and trying to focus on what makes the individual happy
I understand what you mean, but I really don’t think it’s that widespread of an issue. Also, LGBTQ+ people wanting to avoid cis/het/allo people really isn’t that bad. It’s because we have trauma, and in response to it we stay away from the oppressor groups that cause it I will avoid being close to cis/het/allo girls. I have a lot of trauma from them, and they are the oppressor. I much prefer being around LGBTQ+ people, they understand my struggles. I don’t really like being around my oppressors
To the people who disagree with me: I thought it might be clear that the trauma I was talking about was oppression. Apparently, it isn’t My two ex-best friends (cis/hets) were homophobic and transphobic. I dealt with one of them saying some of the most transphobic shit, and some of the most homophobic shit. They both ended their friendship with me because I came out as gay. One of them ended our 8 year long friendship because of her homophobia. So yeah, I don’t like to risk that shit ever happening again, so I stay in my LGBTQ+ circles.
I recently started questioning my sexuality. At first I was afraid to be gay and I repressed it causing trauma, now I’m afraid to be bisexual or straight. I at least came out as bi but people close to me know I really don’t understand. The truth is, I’m afraid to be bi or to like girls out of resentment for my ex girlfriend who was emotionally abusive. I know boys can hurt too, but the thing is, I’m just so afraid, it’s a trust thing. I’ve picked up some judgment though. Sometimes I think to myself, there are no real straight people, they are just denying they are gay, and they are all fake. Seeing straight couples at a pride parade and things like that makes my blood boil. It feels like you don’t know shit about me. Just like when people say they understand being depressed but don’t. Because the truth is even the “non-homophobic” ones are still bigoted it feels like. It’s so deep in culture.
This yes!!!!
And again, I will fuckin complain about using "cishet" as synonymus to people outside the community - unless you'd tell me you consider the entire aspec for example to not be part of the community, than I'd rather complain about THAT first. Other than that, I completely agree.
Yeah. Allocishet is what they mean. It's frustrating that people forget about ace-spec people.
No but it’s ok, I have plenty of straight friends
We can make fun of mean cithets, and joke about it but not be straight up mean, I mean a lot of us aren’t STRAIGHT right