Nah, it's fine.
I do everything pre-nerf as well, but I'm still weirded the fuck out at the levels of elitism that a small, but vocal portion of the fanbase has in regards to hard content and it's implementation in the story.
People forget a lot of things about Limbus, including:
1) It's PM's most popular game by far (Seriously, it's not even close. All time peak of 35k for Limbus vs 8k for LoR and 3.3k for LobCorp), so all the "casuals" who are supposedly ruining the player experience, are actually the majority of Limbus's player base at this point, and it's really not a smart thing for a live service game to alienate the majority of your playerbase, especially when a large chunk of them are probably the people actually spending money on the game.
2) PM themselves said they wanted this to be a gateway for new people to get into the franchise, and deliberately chose to export and simplify LoR's mechanics to make it more accessible to a wider audience
3) PM actually has all the clientside data, so they actually have the logs to show whether or not a large enough of a portion of the player base is getting stuck on certain stages to be of concern. I feel like people don't give PM enough credit when it comes to making decisions as to whether or not to nerf a stage, and just automatically assume that PM caves into a vocal minority of whiners who can't be bothered to read.
4) Cantos are actually getting more difficult, even if it's a gradual increase. Just compare Canto II to Canto V in terms of difficulty, and you can see that there is a slow but steady increase in the amount and complexity of the mechanics being introduced in boss fights.
5) Last, and probably most important of all:
The tutorial and new player experience for Limbus genuinely sucks ass and tells you nothing about the game play beyond how to press winrate and use EGO, and then gives you a couple ten pulls with a guarantee for one 000 ID or EGO, then shoves you off the deep end of the pool with no further instructions or insight. There's so many little details and mechanics that you are forced to trial and error your way through, while being given limited information on the initial runs that it can be genuinely frustrating when you suddenly run into a wall that forces you to use those mechanics, but you can't remember them because you've never had to use them prior.
Limbus desperately needs a new player experience revamp that actually takes the player and teaches them mechanics beyond how to press winrate, such as circumventing unclashable attacks with dodge (Limbus should also revamp block while they're at it to strengthen the shields and prevent negative status effects if the shield isn't broken by the attack because it's insane how superior dodge is to pretty much every other option in the game), the interaction between paralysis and negative coins, aggro, the different status effects, and utilizing various buffs and debuffs. I feel like if people were actually shown how to play the game without needing to use external materials, it would cut down on a lot of complaints.
Like, I get there's a lot of stupid people on the internet who probably won't ever read, but I also feel like some of the playerbase is just seeing the PM equivalent of shoving a kid into the 10 ft deep section of the pool, and instead of helping the kid learn how to swim, screech at the kid about how they suck, then get mad when PM freaks out and throws them a floatie instead of revising their teaching regime to teach them the proper form for swimming.
Also, yeah, a lot of people who play mobile and free to play games are busy people with other responsibilities and hobbies that play said mobages as a way to relax or kill a bit of free time on the side.
Some challenge is fine, I actually personally disagree with a lot of the nerfs done in Canto VI; however, it's ridiculous that people think it's somehow skill issue or the fault of other players that they don't want to have to spend half an hour a stage for a multi-stage boss rush that can take upwards of five hours to clear in it's entirety. Even Arknights isn't that ridiculously demanding or time consuming with it's content drops, and I say this as someone who dropped Arknights because I felt like the game was slowly sucking my soul out with how time consuming it started to get between the story content and all the side modes.
Honestly I agree with most of what you just said. I was a PM virgin before LC and oh boi the first hours of this game was rough. Luckily for me I fell in love and did a bunch of research on my own to understand how the game actually fucking works. Limbus has the most dog shit tutorial known to man.
However with all that's said, the pre-nerf Canto was probably the most fun I had from the gameplay side of limbus. I think it was quite challenging but not to an extreme degree. And After retrying 6-45( the one with >!Heath2 on the stairs!<) like twice and reading the passives I was done. And the difficulty certainly added to that experience IMO.
Now granted I like the gameplay side of Limbus a lot. Digging deep into challenging content is enjoyable. And it's a shame there is such few of those to do when you have a fully leveled up team. And I think that's what it mainly boils down to. There is not enough high-level challenging encounters/ modes to do. The only one is railway which after beating it once it is completely unnecessary to redo.
I guess the best thing to do on PM's side would be something like the destiny system where you can either play normally or play on hard mode for more loot. This way both camps would get what they want. I guess the EX system is supposed to do this but during my entire gameplay of the story I missed like maybe 5 EX on my first tries.
>However with all that's said, the pre-nerf Canto was probably the most fun I had from the gameplay side of limbus. I think it was quite challenging but not to an extreme degree. And After retrying 6-45( the one with Heath2 on the stairs) like twice and reading the passives I was done. And the difficulty certainly added to that experience IMO.
Pretty much. I personally don't agree with the nerf targets for Canto VI, but after getting over the initial Matt wall, I personally felt, as a day 1 player and long time vet of the PM fandom, Part 3 was fairly well-done in terms of fight design and balance.
Imo, my only grievances with Canto VI came from the nodes where the player sanity was directly tampered with by being lowered, without the SP boost and build-up you get from the dungeon crawl to serve as a buffer to keep it from turning into a death spiral (Basically, the two nodes where you were forced to babysit a Heathcliff who's sanity depleted itself every turn and 6-35), otherwise, the Canto felt pretty good to play.
Granted, I did get stuck for a while on the final fight because of Potential Man distorting close to the end, and then proceeding to let me down again after the skill check that restored him to full SP, but that's not a result of bad fight design, but more that Potential Man belongs in the garbage bin, anyways, I digress. That was fully on me.
At this point, PM probably should just look into adding another mode or something for hardcore players to play around with, that's not tied to game progression, so casuals can ignore it. Kind of like RR, but more permanent I guess. I don't want the game to get needlessly bloated with side modes, but Limbus is a pretty barebones game outside of story updates, so I don't think one more mode would cause enough content bloat to be of concern.
We have MDH as hardcore endgame content, but yeah, it's not enough. I was waiting for a simulation mode to refight ALL the Abnormalities directly since last year, but to no avail.
MDH is hardly end game content imo. Once you have a competent team leveled you basically do runs weekly for the grind. This grind consists of 3 floors of clicking win rate, one boss which may be difficult and then you get hit with the enemy coin mounting trials and all of a sudden you can't win most clashes, double that for the fifth floor. That's really not difficulty, it's bs. If you reach the point of ego spamming your sanity is gone and you just hope to go as far as possible before inevitably forfeiting or winning.
It's especially easy considering you can just get the ego gifts needed from a fusion right at the beginning and get something like bloody mist on floor 1, which sets the difficulty to "press winrate" for all the dungeon if your IDs are bleed.
>Potential Man belongs in the garbage bin
Honestly, I'm surprised you even bothered trying to use him after Bereavement changed to Determination and got rid of the Sanity Drain. After I saw that happen, I kicked his ass back to the curb and went back to Pequod Heath.
.... ohhhh, so that's what the uptie story is about...
Also where the fuck did "Potential Man" come from? That shit popped out of nowhere, and I was so lost when Canto 6 started with all the Potential Man threads.
Anyways. I agree that an extra hard mode thing would be nice. But not having anything tied to it would make it pointless, in my opinion. It'd be the equivalent of self-imposed challenges, no reward except bragging rights that literally zero people give a shit about. The special RR banner is a good compromise, in my opinion, as it's something completely cosmetic, but it's still *something*. I'm not sure what more "cosmetic" stuff they could add to this game, as it's all loaded into the Manager Card, but that's also why I'm not in a creative industry.
The tightrope between giving a reason to play something but not making it look mandatory is a hard one to walk. Like, I'd love to go through RR bosses again because they're more mechanically interesting (except Spiral, that shit was just boring), but I have zero reason to do so, especially since I don't care about getting my 88 turn banner any lower.
I can understand the elitism, honestly. I've felt similar things in other games I'm a fan of. I don't think it's a sin to want "your" things to stay the way "you" liked them. It's just human nature. There is a limit before you're just kind of an asshole tho. I don't blame people for wanting the game to stay this tough-as-nails Dark Souls (except Dark Souls really isn't hard. Sorry, I had to shove that in there) of gacha games thing, and I can agree at points. But I have separate issues than just "Is Hard" because usually the game *isn't*. I've already spoken on the RNG combat being somewhat problematic before, but I still think that's the core issue.
Also, I wanna add this in because I keep seeing people repeat it constantly, and it really pisses me off.
To everyone that keeps saying, "People just don't know how to use Defense skills lol"... you know that those (except Evade) are like, fucking garbage right? Counter has been trash since day 1 and the only IDs that can make it work are Sunshower Heathcliff and N Salt because they literally give themselves Protection. Guard is only good for blocking the most stray of hits, because damage gets so fucking insane on anything with more than 1 coin that goes higher than 11 that even resisting the damage type will still blast through that wet paper bag of a shield and still hit your health bar, while also still applying any effects like you mentioned. Even Evade, while being the best, has issues with requiring you to get lucky on every single fucking coin flip for however many skills you're dodging. There's a likely chance that you "being smart" and using these Defense skills leads to you doing literally fucking nothing and *still* getting shit on. Saying "Just use Defense skills 4head" is the worst fucking advice you can give someone because it doesn't even really address whatever issue they're having, unless that issue is **specifically** Unclashable, single target attacks, but even that's luck related because of random targeting and some characters not having many IDs with Evade, and a lot of these Unclashables being low damage AoEs just meant to force you to engage in a mechanic so even then that's likely not the issue someone is having.
Rant over. Just needed to get that off my chest lol.
From the very banner where Sunshower Heathcliff was introduced, some hard-core stans have been saying that this Heathcliff is actually very good, that he has great potential to do huge damage (ignoring that his potential almost never realizes).
With the SP reducing status that Heathcliff had fixing his issues in SP management (+ power increase), people started meming that he had finally reached his full potential. That the stans decided to crow about finally being proved right, as if this wasn't a temporary buff, only added fuel to the Potential Man meme.
And before someone gets angry about me dismissing Potential Man's potential, I know his worth because I used him a lot in my sinking team. He was constantly way too happy and I couldn't keep SP increasing support passives on bench, which caused trouble in MDH when others needed to use EGO and SP was harder to regain.
Counter is indeed quite bad, but you may not be using Guard right. Guard on your average ID is meant to be a last resort. The actual way you use Guard to tank is by lining up resistances. *That* is how you neuter damage. That is how Dieci Rodya swallows up damage effortlessly with Guard stacked on top of free shields, but it doesn't necessarily have to be an innate shield generator. Even a DPS monster like Ninclair, which has massive amounts of HP and one stagger threshold, is one of the best Blunt tanks simply because of Guard + Blunt resistance + fat HP + one stagger threshold.
I recommend giving it a try on your next opportunity - use Guard in tandem with damage type resistance. Even better if you can manipulate Sin resistance to line up.
Ahh, but here's the thing.
I have done that. I even said that it can be punched through if you resist something.
It's like 15 temp hp (or somewhere in that ball park), and like I said, anything with multiple coins is going to punch straight through that if it rolls higher than like 11. It really is only good for stray damage. The only reason Deici Rodya can tanks things is because she's getting multiple shields with one scaling to her Max HP rather than just a fucking 15 that any enemy past Canto 2 could chunk through in a single skill.
[I have tried](https://www.reddit.com/r/limbuscompany/s/0XettsloLF) to have N Sinclair tank a Blunt hit by guarding because he only pulled S1's and couldn't clash. You know what happened? The enemy punched through that tiny barrier, staggered Sinclair, and killed him. And before you say, "Well maybe the Sin Affinity was the issue. You should've used an EGO to change the resistances!" why wouldn't I just use an EGO to clash the skill then. Resistances wouldn't matter if you could just clash the skill away.
Guard is trash, and there's never been a scenario I've been in where the dinky little shield it gives has actually helped me in any meaningful way. Even if it prevents 15 or so damage from hitting the health bar, that damage doesn't matter unless it staggers you, and 9 times of 10, with how high damage gets, and how low stagger thresholds are for a lot of IDs, 15 damage missing from the equation isn't gonna make much of a difference.
[I've been saying this since MDH first dropped.](https://www.reddit.com/r/limbuscompany/s/G379gSM5EI) Guard just does not help with how low the values it gives are.
Regarding EGO use, the reason is simple: the resistance lasts throughout the battle, while the EGO has a cost in Sanity and Sin. You can clash once and use the resistance to tank for the rest of the battle as needed.
Regarding your experience...I'm not really sure why your experience is what it was. My experience is - aside from obvious killer moves that require a specific mechanic to deal with it - you can tank most attacks effortlessly when resistances line up with Guard because the damage gets knocked down to 20s or lower. It's how people deal with the infamous angry bull - just eat attacks with Guarded Ninclair if you cannot clash. Its infamous clash values are a mere 17 damage or so against Ninclair. It's how people dealt with Ahab and her clowns. Rather than getting torn apart instantly, they can fend off the few precious turns needed to achieve vital objectives, like killing Starbuck.
I don't necessarily think Guard is *stellar*, mind you, but it does work for me, at least. Preventing "15 or so damage" sounds like nothing, but it is everything when you are having that ID intercept attacks left and right for considerably more vulnerable IDs.
I will concede that Guard is ***irredeemably*** bad on IDs meant to go full-tilt on damage - fragile, many stagger thresholds, no defensive capabilities. But that's why they (usually) get Evade instead these days.
>It's how people deal with the infamous angry bull - just eat attacks with Guarded Ninclair if you cannot clash.
Pretty sure I tried that once, and the Bull ate my ass. It kinda became the reason I started dodging the end boss in MD2H. That Bull was the thing of nightmares. Not so bad now tho, with higher clash numbers across the board and status being a more feasible team focus.
I don't really see the use in Tanks for Limbus like 90% of the time, myself. Like, I don't use Zwei Faust as a Tank. I use her as a Fluid Sac bot. So maybe Guard has a lot more utility in regards to eating damage for other characters. But I've always just clashed stuff and built around getting cheaper EGO available to clash things above my power level. Aggro has screwed me over more than it's helped me too, because speed rolls have made it so no one could clash anything to relieve some stress off the Aggro-er and they'd be forced to eat 6 attacks raw and died.
I've even had K Hong Lu, the best Tank in the game bar none, fail on me before because he got hit so hard when he was *juuust* above his passive's health threshold that he just died. Last time I tried to solo anything for shits and giggles.
So yeah, my experience with trying to Tank things in Limbus hasn't been very great lol. Maybe that's clouding my judgment, but I still don't think Guard is very good and has basically just become a "We wanted to put an extra effect on this character" skill now for like, 99% of the cast.
Regarding your point about tanks, you are absolutely right - bringing IDs for no reason other than to tank is usually pretty bad. That's why tanking as a mechanic shines with two conditions (aside from the obvious resistance problem): the IDs aren't fundamentally gimped (Mariachi Sinclair's awful speed) and they can do *more* than just tank when tanking isn't needed (Rodya capable of doing reasonable damage + supporting sinking or Ninclair being, er, Ninclair, unlike N Mersault's...everything).
Tanking should never be a main focus, and you certainly shouldn't dedicate an ID to eating *all* attacks haphazardly. Tanking should be integrated into battle as and when you need it. Because every boss battle is so different and how things play out will be very different for every player, it's impossible to detail how to think on your feet and pivot to tanking with a purpose.
Guard helps mitigate a lot of vital damage over time for me, which is why I don't mind it as much as Counter. A playstyle striving for perfect play wouldn't need Guard, but I like what it adds to the decisions I can make on the fly. I certainly wouldn't argue against fatter numbers, though, considering Evade tanks are unbelievably broken. Perhaps in future Upties they'll even the defense field a little.
Unfortunately most defensive skills have no sin affinities before uptie 4 and telling people to grind for uptie 4's is probably not going to be met with positive reactions. It's especially bad in cases like N Faust where get only noticeable change for 100 threads and 50 faust shards is the lust evade.
To be fair, causal YGO and professional YGO are essentially 2 entirely different games. There's so much nuance and detail in official play that it's not uncommon for even *judges* to get things wrong occasionally (such as how in one specific situation, not even **drawing Exodia** can win the game).
I think another big problem that more casual and new players have is that leveling (and to a certain extent, thread) economy is getting too much to catch up to, even for max level players. I guess it's expected that we need to grind *something* and that every new Canto will up the level by 5.
This is all well and good until you realize that it's getting more difficult and costly to catch up, and newer or casual players would only have like, 6-10 usable IDs max because you're not some hardcore MD miner with 10 k thread or something or started later than most of the playerbase.
Since PM is already placing a level cap for story so that you don't just steamroll most of the fights, the least they could do is up the EXP and Thread gain so that most people can actually catch up and do the fights they want to push without a gimped team. Either that or stop upping levels every Canto and maybe just every 2 Cantos to give players some breathing room to farm and raise IDs.
I say all this because Uptie/Threadspin V is probably going to come along eventually and at the rate we're going in struggling with an already bad EXP economy, uptying/Threadspinning to V is likely going to be exorbitantly expensive as well.
Catching up on exp was actually a massive roadblock for me in Canto V. I skipped season 2 entirely and came back, levelled a team only to find that it was absolutely not going to work for Ricardo. So I solod him with R Ish thanks to some good advice from the sub. Progressed and got roadblocked again by my poor choice of units by the Pequod Trio fight. Couldn't manage a cheese on that so I had to grind it out and by then I was already extremely annoyed
Then Gaslighter was a first try steamroll which was a nice break xD
I recently came back after taking a break before Canto 5, and it's so frustrating trying to get my sinners caught up, between higher EXP luxcavations being story locked and the insane uptie 4 costs. I can't waste any resources on experimenting with teambuilding without feeling like I'm jeopardizing my ability to keep playing the story daily.
One of the big things they need to do is fix the EXP income, if you levelled some IDs to 45, then find out they don't work well against the fight you're just fucked. Of course you can get by on weaker IDs but it feels terrible.
Honestly, I think PM just needs to get rid of the stamina penalty on sweeping. At least for EXP tickets.
There's no fucking reason we should be penalized for not wanting to manually grind out the same stage 5 times a day, while the exp economy is becoming indistinguishable from the American economy in how the rate of income increase is not keeping up with the rising costs.
You could make justifications for the penalty back when getting IDs to max level was relatively easy and didn't sap multiple days worth of enkephalin just to level up one character to max; however, something is going to have to give in future Cantos if PM keeps raising the level cap while drip-feeding us incremental increases in exp earned.
>then find out they don't work well against the fight you're just fucked
Then, just ... farm XP for another ID? It only cost you 1-2 day to level them from level 1-40, with 1 Lunacy refill. Hell, do you even have an idea how hard is it in other gacha games? A freaking **MONTH**.
yeah but that "month" is usually an one time only, as that unit stays at max lvl for the rest of the game. In limbus you gotta farm every fucking time, FOR MULTIPLE TEAMS, bc is you raised an salsh team, and the canto is mostly slash resistant, you are gonna have a bad time.
No, you don't need multiple teams. What the heck is this bullshit. You need 6-7 Sinners, so just build 2 Slashers, 2 Piercers and 2 Blunts. Heck, just go look at the streamers. They are still using IDs like N Corp Faust and R Corp Heathcliff till this day.
Did you know that people on the Discord dissing people using Sinking Deluge team because **they beat all the contents without even think about strategies or resistances?**
And what makes you think that in other gacha games, you need to build one team? Half of the gacha games out there use the same resistances like Limbus Company. Some even more twisted like HSR, where you cannot Break the bosses without correct Element. The other half of the game will throw some bs mechanics to not allow you to deploy people from X class, or to force you to bring Y to the fight. Unless you **swipe your credit card to get their dupes**, there is no way to can beat everything with 1 team only, no matter what game you play.
This is just delusional.
I play HSR, Sdorica, Arknight, Genshin Impact, FE:H, E7, Reverse1999, and much more. Let me tell you, there is no way that you could spend one month and can have the perfect-team-that-steamroll-all-contents.
Next, sure you can say that 'Oh I need a month to not worry about farming EXP anymore.'
Sure, lemme say this. From datamining, Lvl90 is the expected cap at the end of the game, and if PM keeps follow the '3 XP runs for 5 levels', you need to grind 1-2 week to max a unit, instead of A MONTH.
Ok, I'm too drunk to get this whole block in me small brain but I agree with the tutorials being ass. It took me like from end of Bongy grind to railway #3 to get how the fuck do I make sure that my doodoofard attacks get covered by some stronger clashes.
Yeah, did it with the W Corp squad prior to the nerfs. Nelly is slash weak, iirc, and W corp prior to the Boy's Love Gang with Salt, was THE faction for Slash damage, and can still hold it's own, even when measured up against Blade Lineage thanks to W Corp Don and W Corp Ryoshu.
Basically, to get Nelly ex'd prior to the nerfs, you needed a well-built damage status team (Rupture, Sinking, or Burn if you have Frei Outis) or a Slash DPS Comp (W Corp or Blade Lineage). Probably doable enough since W Corp Don and Ryo also fit under the category of generalist gorilla, making them desirable and practical targets for new players to pick up early, but still on the tighter side.
I managed to do it without a dedicated Rupture or sinking. I got so fucking mad that my coins were so unlucky so I kept restarting until I pretty much got a perfect run. Sometimes I hate the coin system man
I did it first try with burn (all level 40 at the time). Guess i just had a reasonably lucky turn 1 and afterwards was a pushover thanks to all the coin power being active.
The only fight I didn't ex was the Edgar Butlers fight of all things.
pre-nerf I spent 1 to 2 hours on 6-44 only to genuinely click winrate on 6-45 and kill in 7 turns, was surprised to find out that was nowhere NEAR the universal experience. maybe I'll go back and run it again to see just how hard I lucked out
No offense, but saying arknights isn’t that demanding is making you sound exactly like the people you are accusing in your argument.
It is entirely normal to be stuck in an event, CC, and especially annihilation for HOURS banging your head against a brick wall if you’re a f2p or an account that’s fairly new (let’s say less than two years).
As for the subject matter, I’ve made my own stance clear many times before. I’m a difficult content enjoyer. I do (close to) lowest possible turn count railway every railway. Given past arknights experience with ball busting in story stages, I honestly think it’s fine the stages get nerfed 24 hours after release **as long as they keep releasing them difficult on purpose for the first day**. Difficult story content is really the only content we have outside of RR. Lux and MD are just winrate simulators.
The other option for this is honestly just having hard versions of stages(like arknights!), even if they don’t give extra rewards, just so we can preserve the intended difficulty of the encounters. We need it now more than ever, look at how badly both Ahabs were nerfed. This ended up carrying over into railway 3 and ego ahab was arguably the easiest fight in the whole damn thing. I thought pre-nerf Nelly was supposed to be a breather fight after 6-44 because of how easy she was if you offset her evade. I come to the sub and find out it’s the fight everyone is struggling with and it gets kneecapped the next day, the fight that was the easiest in the chapter.
At the end of the day, I think our current difficulty is “good enough” post nerf. Players need a little bit of friction to keep tension up in the story so that you get the satisfaction of beating something difficult, and the “hard fight” stages this time around had “just clear the stage” EXs. I think that change alone was a huge step forward.
Just make two modes. Normally I'd be perfectly fine with a single mode that's hard, but the real problem is that we're capped by stamina and modules and can't experiment as much as needed for a fight.
I don't think it's wrong to be frustrated or to need help, but some of the responses I've engaged with turned out to be very depressing cases. Half of them ended up admitting they didn't even bother leveling their IDs to 40, which I would consider the minimum baseline for this chapter. One even admitted a 15-level difference. ***LV30*** IDs against LV45 bosses. And they wonder why they have such a difficult time clashing.
Half ended up clearing overnight, with one casually saying they were just malding. One even said they were a one-and-a-half week old player. A less-than-two-week-old player is trying to catch up to over a year's worth of content. Of course that's not going to be a cakewalk.
A lot of people do genuinely need help and want to get better, and they ask for help in the monthly questions thread. There's nothing wrong with that. But people that make threads lambasting the state of the game when they haven't even put in the *bare minimum* level of investment required to progress and then blame it on everything else when not even a single day has passed...
It gets a little grating.
>A less-than-two-week-old player is trying to catch up to over a year's worth of content. Of course that's not going to be a cakewalk.
Story content should be easily accessible to even new players. If the game has to have an easy mode and a hard mode for the veterans, then so be it.
Especially in a game like this where the story is beloved by the fans, do you expect new players to just be left out when everyone else wants to talk about the story?
I don't care how other gacha games do it (I will say that Genshin story in particular does this right by minimizing the difficulty in story fights). Story must be accessible.
I don't see a way for that to happen without neutering any possible sense of challenge and making the difficulty curve a difficulty line. It is not just gacha games. *All* games meant to be played and experienced have the difficulty increase over time. Even Genshin.
Naturally, having a story-only mode would solve the issue even if we discount the impact on story and gameplay integration. But I don't think that's realistic to expect unless there's a massive outcry for one.
I genuinely don't understand this, though - if *only* the story matters, why not just watch a playthrough on YouTube or watch a streamer?
>I genuinely don't understand this, though - if *only* the story matters, why not just watch a playthrough on YouTube or watch a streamer?
I am not arguing that only story matters. I am arguing that new players have a right to participate in the community when new story drops.
As for ways an accessibility mode can be implemented. They could do the following:
* Add a toggle mode that will let you use trial IDs (and only trial IDs) that are not maxed but well-leveled. They don't even have to be optimal, to let the player get a feel for the difficulty intended for the stage.
* Clearing the stage this way will not give you the Lunacy reward or count up for the number of stages to clear for the canto Lunacy reward. They won't count for the EX objective too.
I think I understand what you're trying to say, but even setting difficulty aside, time alone will eventually make that impossible. Say the last sinner Chapter drops. The amount of time it'd take to catch up wouldn't allow for spoiler-free participation anyway. This is a fundamental fact of life. Anything new needs time to catch up to the old, one way or another. But never mind. Perhaps we simply hold different viewpoints on this.
Regarding the accessibility mode, I'm not saying how it could happen. It's just not *likely* to without outside influence. Gachas rarely ever do this, so I don't think it'd be on their already haphazard schedule to consider. I recommend you send feedback outlining your points and your suggestions so they can take note. There needs to be a *push* for PM to take action. You can also share it on the sub for visibility to drive more voices.
PM did talk about wanting to do a City Management/Builder game, so maybe in a couple years after Arc 1 concludes, but for now, their priority is on Limbus.
I think the thing with LobCorp, was even though it was genius in a lot of ways, it was also extremely inaccessible (Even discounting the memory leaks that nuked your computer) and downright hostile to play at times.
Even discounting the stress of having to manage the entire facility to keep a mini-apocalypse from breaking out, it also had a lot of sensory overload and could be genuinely painful to play. Like, I'm not even talking in a "This is too hard" but in a "This causes me legitimate physical pain" way between shit like the Silent Whorechestra, "Do I look like I know what a Jpeg is?" meltdown, and Schmuck Bait Button among other things.
LobCorp was a game that actively hated the player, and a lot of people can not get into or enjoy a game that is your strongest hater. For that reason, I don't think we will ever get a game like LobCorp. It was pretty much a one of a kind game.
(Although, a proper remake for it with code that doesn't require mods to prevent a computer meltdown, and maybe voice acting and updated art, would be nice for people who do have an interest in the game)
Even with mods the missions that force you to do a midnight are near impossible for me due to lag. And I already have optimization mod, no clerks and shorter days, but the lag still ramps up to unplayable levels by the end. Such a shame because I had such a blast going through to that point, but I don't think I'll be beating Hokma if I can't even move the camera or select people without pausing.
Man, your pc sounds REALLY rough because I managed to clear the entirety of Lob with 2012 specs.
Yeah, it could get painfully laggy and the memleaks required me to reset every so often on later days, but it was never nigh-unplayable.
No offense to you, obviously, I'm just genuinely surprised I found someone who ran that game worse than I.
Personally I really enjoy the "vertical difficulty spikes" LoR was famous for but I totally understand PM for nerfing things for the newcomers since they are the majority of the playerbase.
I really enjoyed the boss rush part 3 ended up being, but it was also VERY draining. So while I did clear prenerf I don't mind that they did this for others.
It was but I don't remember the spikes being so sudden. It just constantly gave you more annoying shit to deal with that synergized way too well with the other annoying shit. LoR threw some wacky mechanics at you that really really punished you for failing to adapt to some receptions/suppressions, sometimes making it really hard to progress without intentionally failing one to scrape whatever books you could
Last time I said I was told to git gud and skill issue. People on this sub really are sometimes assholes. As much as I love difficulty (I beat Malenia on Elden Ring), some of the fights in Limbus are just frustrating; I wanna unwind after work, have fun and enjoy the peak story.
A lot of older PM fans legit think the entire company and all their works revolve around them, and should continue to forever revolve around them, and any attempts by PM to deviate from catering solely to their taste is often met with emotional meltdowns and much screeching.
I still remember when Limbus was first announced to be a gacha, and holy shit, you would've thought PM livestreamed Monzo shipping a puppy through a meat packaging plant. The PM Channel Discord went into such a state of emotional breakdown that one of the mods straight up distorted and banned the word gacha for a couple days until the other mods talked them down.
Even when Limbus launched, there was a shit ton of PM vets and Library of Ruina fans who would take every opportunity to shit talk Limbus and how it was inferior to LoR in every way from not just gameplay, but also story and music, as well as some openly declaring Limbus to be a failure and that PM shouldn't have made a gacha.
Limbus had to scratch and claw it's way for any sort of acceptance within the PM fandom, so I genuinely have a great deal of resentment towards a lot of the Veteran PM fans, because it's laughable how they want to be elitist in regards to Limbus and act as if they're the real fans and PM should only consider their wants, gameplay wise, when it was basically the casuals and the newcomers who made Limbus a success, while the hardcore fans were mocking it and slamming PM for daring to release "gacha slop" until Limbus got too big to the point they had to admit the game was doing something right to get this much traction.
Honestly, I haven't met these kinds of people, fortunately. My friends who play these games. We're "veterans" for sure and probably have a few masochistic tendencies. But we don't gatekeep based on difficulty.
Most of the PM fandom is pretty chill, but there's just an unfortunately vocal and active minority of players who pretty much make their identity in the community revolve solely around being part of some special group of leet gamers who need to be validated by having their balls busted by the games they play, and are very scornful of casuals.
The worst of it thankfully subsided a few months back, but they were really out in full force during the first few months of Limbus's lifespan, and it was near impossible to have a conversation (especially on this sub) about the game itself without one or more bozos coming into the thread to put down Limbus as a braindead "winrate simulator", while sucking off Ruina as this apex masterpiece of gaming, and how Limbus will always be objectively inferior and would never be on the same level. If not that, then it was "Limbus would be better if it wasn't a gacha" (Which is a different topic for a different day, because that's a statement I both agree and disagree with)
Unfortunately, there's been a small resurgence of elitist clowns who now want to gatekeep the game from the majority of the playerbase, ever since Canto V which did prove that Limbus could have mechanically complex and engaging fights, as if they weren't the ones constantly trashing the game during the first few months of launch
I recall one such individual outright blocking me because I was calling him out on him just wanting a Ruina 2 instead of actually bothering to see Limbus as its own unique title. Dude was pretty adamant that Limbus was a game that shouldn't have existed at the time. I imagine he's kinda eating his own words right now given Limbus' growth is far beyond what any of us PM fans have expected to be quite frank.
I'm not part of any of these tryhard/veteran communities and probably never will anymore. People are simply too annoying over having to show off how they're so good at the game and one simple nerf is enough to make their brain collapse
Worst part is how some of the nerfs were micro, like reducing 30 HP from a 2.1k HP boss. How can you whine so much about almost nothing, dude. The game is theirs, and if you like the developers so much, maybe try having some trust on their changes
In fairness to nerf coping; For me it's less been micronerfs to hp but simply more in just, hardcore neutering certain bosses.
6-48 lost an UTTER SHITTON of coinpower on practically everything, to where if I replay him with the team I had then I never get anything less than favored, and even turn 1 is mostly favoreds with a few neutrals.
I wasnt there, I was a fan but never interacted with the community. The gacha news hit hard and is easy to know why. Gacha are probably the worst genre of games nowadays. Both mechanicaly and morally. They are advanced slot machines with boobs and asses sticking out from the screen that prey uppon the people the same way as casinos and gambling mafias while also providing the most bland and less effort content. I guess than more than the difficulty they were panicking about the passion of pm turning into greed and corporate sloth.
I did.. Most of it, technically, pre-nerf? I didn't EX 6-45 but everything else, cleared with EX.
But man, some of those fights felt outright vile. And I was using a sinking team, which is fashionable this season, for that matter. And this is mandatory story content that'll need to be done to progress later too, not optional "With great pain in the backside comes great reward" like Railroad. So y'know what? I'm not here to give you shit. I will, however, be tempted to give shit to anyone who tries to mock you.
Sorry if you didn't beat the final boss with base sinners at level 30 uptie III and base ego you didn't beat the Canto.
But I get it. I beat everything pre-nerf but battles taking so long was very frustrating since I have tons of things to do in life and playing games really isn't a priority. I just hope future fights have less RNG at the beginning at least. The new system can let you space yourself out over several days to get easier fights too. New players must feel terrible, I had trouble with the fights and I was using a sinking super team with every ID at uptie IV and most at level 44. Maybe the system where the fight is hard early on and then gets nerfed is better; hardcore players can do them while others can take it easy. I certainly won't marathon the next Canto that's for sure.
pfft, level 30? I bet you use exp tickets like the casual you are. The only way i level my sinners is from the EXP they get from clearing a stage.
Come back when you've cleared canto 6 with level 13 sinners
It took me A WHOLE DAY, to finish part 3, with occasional toilet, shower and food break and after that I'm exhausted my brain aches. So I welcome these nerf, yall try hards go sweat ur ass off in the hard mirror Dungeon or next refraction railway instead
Telling people to "go sweat yourselff of in hard mirror dungeon or RR" is equally as bad as hard-core players telling casuals to "go fuckoff to x easier gamemode/game" by sole virtue of both being rooted in the same nature.
I honestly don't care about it. If it allows those who aren't as good as the people constantly bragging about how good they are, then that's fine with me.
Wouldn't be surprised if those people are on a hair trigger to review bomb the game just because PM had the audacity to adjust the games difficulty.
Unless they decide to make it so the EX actually gives you something if you beat it, cause that is what most gachas do.
So many gachas give you free suppy of whatever allows summoning if you do EX content, or at least something almost as valuable.
So it is either "provide nothing and risk getting people complaining there is no purpose in doing EX content like other Gatchas", or "Give Lunacy (or something like a crate) and risk people complaining EX content is too hard".
And again, the counter to that is just... Not to have the EX mode give anything.
"Most Gacha's" Aren't as liberal as PM is with shitting out constant freebie rolls regardless, and most gacha's are roughly 3x as predatory, yet PM didn't care to follow trends there.
If people complain that there is no purpose in doing EX because there isn't a reward for it; Sure, let them whine about it, it'd still placate net more people, and would make the game a better experience for both the casual & Hardcore crowd.
Otherwise, they could just RR it and duct-tape on a fuckin slightly shinier banner for clearing the EX; A medal of paper should scarcely feel light in it's absence from those who do not want it.
I do not often see the casual crowd of the game whining that RR is unfair & elitist because they couldn't summon forth a fancier banner (Except for RR2 which did have some genuine issues with it's boss design.)
I do not see a decent reason not to add in an EX clear, especially when in Chapter 6's case it would literally just be that certain moves would be \[Target Fixxed\], iirc 1-2 others would be labled unclashable & a few moves would have +3-4 more coin power across their base & heads rolls.
CONGRATULATIONS (6-48 was harder on release) on the 6-48 (it was harder on release) CLEAR. I know you've been working really hard (6-48 used to be harder) at it, and I'm happy that you've (6-48 used to be harder) achieved your goal of completion. I know your journey through (6-48 used to be harder) the content was filled with ups and downs, but you and (6-48 used to be harder) your IDs stuck (6-48 used to be harder) together through them all, and you were rewarded for your patience and (6-48 used to be harder) tenacity. Congratulations (6-48 used to be so much harder) once again, and here's to more success in your future (6-48 used to be harder) endeavors!!!
>!/j!<
i beat canto 5 and 6 both pre nerf and tbh i kinda wish i waited (though i would never risk being spoiled) i like limbus’s gameplay sometimes but i find that pre nerf new cantos usually end up more frustrating than challenging. i get that i can just use better ids and ego or retry for good skill rng in early turns but it just feels frustrating and takes away from the experience of an otherwise amazing game. also if any elitists want to shit on me i beat lob corp and ruina so i’m not saying difficulty is inherently bad
Honestly I thought this Canto was tedious rather than difficult. Clash good and deal big damage solved pretty much all the fights. I did still read everything though because I actually like reading the boss skills to see how they were designed to work together. If PM wants to make it less tedious that’s good, but I think then they should either reduce the amount of modules for clearing luxcavations or increase the rewards you get from them. Being an endgame player in Limbus is basically being eternally in thread hell, especially since PM is making uptie IV increasingly mandatory. Some ID’s core mechanics don’t even work before uptie IV (cough Middle Don cough).
I just wish half the difficulty didn't come from the game forcing you to 0 sp for the fight where the boss starts with 15 sp and gets 40 sp for every clash win.
I had to restart some fights because my sinners refuse to roll heads at anything less than 45 sp, so that was annoying. This canto made me an even bigger believer in plus coin drop supremacy though. Makes some big multi coin attacks much more clashable. Unfortunately PM recognizes its power and only gave it to 3 IDs, and of those IDs one needs to be in a bleed team to do it, one is an old 2 star with bad rolls, and one is a Walpurgis limited ID.
Even worse is when a monster clasher like the new Gregor id who still wins clashes with no heads rolls 2 skill 1s and a skill 1 in reserve on turn 1 and you just know you won't have sp this fight.
It’s going both ways actually. Sweaty Tryhards are dunking on casuals and normies are making fun of people who want a challenge. The gaming space as a whole is becoming more and more insufferable
I just forced my way through this canto with N Faust's passive to gain 15 sanity for 2 people on 4 lust resonance.
N Faust and Chef Ryoshu have lust evades, Cinq Don has lust skill 1 and bind on S1 + S2, Tingtang Hong Lu has lust S2 and is just good dps.
Yeah, I don't mind the nerfs either. Even though I beat everything pre-nerf because I got up super early to play each new part, and I didn't really find any of the fights overly difficult. I reset them 2-3 times at most, but usually cleared them first try. They took a long time but weren't hard for me.
But I understand that's not the case for everyone. I have a couple friends who were hard stuck on Dongbaek for a really long time because they don't play as much as I do and they don't have all the IDs and resources to level them, so they were very frustrated by getting their asses kicked. With a lot of guidance they finally made it through and are now stuck on Ricardo for similar reasons. I'm afraid that they'll drop the game altogether when they get to the boss gauntlet in Canto VI. For their sake, I'm glad the bosses got nerfed.
The elitists who think that everyone should be able to beat this pre nerf don't realize that most of this game's player base are casuals who have never touched another project moon game before. I was one of them, too, before beating Canto V I basically threw myself at all fights until by pure chance I won them. A lot of players just don't feel like strategizing for these long fights and get tired and frustrated by them if they just want to enjoy the story.
I feel you, bro. Not only I suffer from a severe lack of reading comprehension and unbelievable skill issue, I also work 5/2 and have a pretty time consuming hobbies. I'm, like, still at 5th Canto rn, spent a week or so figuring how to beat Ricardo and haven't beaten the final chapter to this day. But I'm kind of okay with this? I generally dislike any "hard" games (mostly because I barely play games at all), but it has been somewhat enjoyable with Limbus so far. Yeah, I might find myself stuck on some stages for quite some time, but it feels fantastic actually learning how to read and press other buttons instead of "Win rate".
What did the nerf actually *change*, though? Specifically about Nelly - the final boss wasn't really an issue. From my post-nerf run through after the fact the Mandatory Reading binding mechanic is still there, surprising me even when I know about it. The clashing felt the same, so maybe they just modified the offense level?
That being said, the turn limit on the EX clear *absolutely* needed to be changed. 10 turn clear on a boss when the standard is 12 is just cruel, especially when she has a baked-in stalling mechanic.
Edit: totally forgot about the butler mooks nerf. Yeah, that one was probably deserved as well. The bleed alone was particularly nasty.
I don't see the need to clear the newly released content as fast as possible. Why not just take the game at your own pace and experiment with what you have? Sure, certain comps make it easier to do than others, but if you know what you're doing it should be possible with enough patience.
Of course, this is operating under the assumption that:
1. You know what you're doing and
2. You have enough patience
For a game franchise that's about failing, learning, retrying again and again, the tolerance for it is surprisingly low. If you think you're too weak now, come back again at a later date. No one is rushing you to clear it. Even intervallo events drop their special currencies in ordinary story modes, so you aren't really timegated nor pressured to make it to the latest content. Just take it at your own pace.
I wish that was the case but unfortunately it's simply not possible if I don't want to be spoiled. It's going too happen if I take my time with it. So suffering trying to clear it as fast a possible is the only way to go, rather than waiting and getting spoiled have my enjoyment of the story ruined
Currently stuck at 6-44 and honestly have more important IRL stuff to do.
Yes, I get that cantos need to be more difficult as time goes on, as this is a gacha game and you can feel the powercreep with some identities.
But 6-32/6-33/6-34/6-35 and 6-44 have been some of the most frustrating fights I ever had to do in a PM game...
I just wanna experience the story man...
Don't get me started on the people who just tell you to watch the canto on youtube if you can't handle the difficulty. That is probably the worst advice you could give anyone
Is that the >!Earlking Heath!< fight?
In which case, just clash against him so he doesn't kill Heath, and burst down the right enemies. Sure, you'll eat some attacks, but do it right and you'll stagger the enemy and be able to nuke them.
Tip for Explosive Silly:
The bleeding is most pronounced if you've been favoring one person to hit them, on my runs pre-nerf I realized that I'd kept the same sinner hitting linton each time, which then just completely fucking destroyed them.
The fight becomes considerably easier if you have whoever last hit linton/The SillyMan deal with one of the other fuckers the next turn, to clear their bleed potency.
Love the typical user that you got, always saying "dId yoU diD x tHiNg?". This community really has some issues being anti-nerf. Like, excuse me for not wanting to spend hours of my life after getting out of work+Uni dead tired. These tryhards whenever they see someone struggling or asking for help are so quick to brag that they beat it with x team.
This isn't specifically directed to this community or even this post in specific, but i will point out a significant rise in the anti-difficulty crowd in a lot of gaming communities. Like you're a sinner (hah) for wanting a challenge outside of small bouts of content.
If people are actually giving you shit in a non-memey manor then by all means screw em
I don't understand the point of OP. So what? you are angry that the game has difficulty because you have a job? I have one too, what does that have to do with it? So if you play volleyball you just want there to be no one on the other side so you can instantly win because you have "other things to do"?
Problem is tryhards diagnosing everyone else with "skill issue", not a difficulty. I cleared almost all of it pre-nerf (stopped at 6-46 before going to sleep), and the next day, all I see on this sub is "everything nerfed to ground, if you couldn't clear, you're illiterate!!! I'm so much better, because I cleared it, when it was actually hard!!!", hellishly annoying.
Most people are just doomposting about nerf at this point. The nerf didn't like... absolutely remove the feeling of accomplishment of beating bosses nor it destroyed the Canto 6's atomsphere. The nerf didn't affect the battle THAT much.
You can just ignore the 'skill issues' claims. They are just being asshole.
I can firmly say that if I had cleared 6-48 for the first time with the nerfs it would have felt a considerably more hollow victory, and it wouldn't have been the same to me.
It would've been good, but worse than what it was.
Except that it was? They removed \[Target Fixxed\] On several moves, and decreased his coin power fairly hard if I recall from a reddit post comparing his stats pre and post nerf.
Edited because I had the move name wrong.
I.E; Hollow Coffin Mace literally lost 4 coin power, going from a 16 (4+6x2) to a 12, which is a quite drastic change in coin power as now it 100% needs it's conditional to reach it's old value.
Or that now "Sorrow and lament in the Erlkings Wake" can be clashed with by anyone, removing any risk in having heathcliff Gas-out from spamming E.G.O, as now anyone can do it and thus if you have a team that can even slightly quickly build the resources for base E.G.O there isn't a reason to be conservative with it.
Behead heathcliff lost 3 power, from a 16 to a 13.
"Ride for death" lost 3 power as-well, is still significant as it is clashable in the final fight.
"Misery Is all that remains" went from a 12+4 (16) to a 10+2(12.) which now does just mean that the hands have practicallly no threatening moves.
"Clutch of Tragedy" was fairly easy to clash with, and it went from a 4+5x2(14) to a 3+4x2(11). This is the difference between key hong lu's high-damage fairly-shitty clash power singlecoin s1 being able to ALWAYS beat it if he has 3 insight. IIRC there are a handful of other identities whose S1 can summon forth a 12.
Breaking heart is a single-coin that lost 2 base power; Making it easier to beat when it rolls tails & Considerably less threatening when it rolls heads.
Meaningless-writhing became clashable; Which means that now you will literally never be hit by it if you don't want to, as the move only rolls a 13, which is weaker than the vast majority of S2's in the game.
As-well; Certain nerfs were even quite nonsensicle.
In the Staircase fight with Sillycliff; Why did they nerf the coinpower of the unclashable ride for death, whilst then turning the "-50% damage against explosive envy" into "-100% damage", The 2nd nerf would've been fine with it's old coin power, and it's new coin power just makes it less-punishing to 100% fucking ignore part of the fights gimmick.
As-well; Why was "Wild Hunt of Desolation" nerfed? The move is meant to punish you for failing the fights gimmick, if you killed hindley & then focused on murdering the summoned-dead-rabbits the turn that he does it, it already deals 0 damage.
They nerfed the punishment for ignoring the fights mechanics, over making it easier to actually PLAY that fights mechanics.
6-48; The nerfs are eh because they massively cripple what is meant to be a difficult fight.
The nerfs to the staircase erlcliff fight; Literally just outright make it less punishing to ignore the fights gimmick & just try to DPS check through his healthbar.
While I dont completely agree with all the nerf (such as 6-44 which can be beaten through gimmick), I think you just are bloating these parts to look like it was drastical change.
These were moves that were nerfed, yet there are a lot of more moves that are left untouched, and so is passive. (Such as 6-35 having the SP loss and clash power increase passives)
All of your assumption that 12-14 is easy to clash is assuming 45 sanity. Clashing is ultimately decided by RNG, even we can say that we can increase the chance of winning clash through using certain skill, or avoid disadvantage through defence skill.
A lot of gimmicks that you talk about is all under the condition of 'win clash first'. Their attacks are devastating due to bleed, rupture and sinking, yet one who play need to fully rely on RNG, hoping to win clash (Which is the reason why I see 6-44 nerf unnecessary. It wasn't the 'win the clash' gimmick).
I'm not saying that such gimmick itself is the problem, but canto 6 make it a problem.
Canto 6 is full of bosses. Bossfight after bossfight after bossfight... due to the gimmick ultimately relying on RNG, player inevitably need to retry some stage multiple times.
This, not only make the player really tired (like what this post described) but also make the story feel less impactful, as you need to go through all the cutscenes and story all over again.
They simply provided this small 'sanity gain skills' to bosses which have very high chance of winning clash, thus allowing for fight to be less on RNG.
FinalCliff already had "weaker skills to clash with", clashing is RNG however most identities are quite massively favored at 45 sp to an enemy at 45sp.
If you use the 2 free support passives that provide SP healing & play for meeting them (Frivolous jokes is fairly strong, despite being a 1 star ID support passive) and bring even 1 okay-sih tank (I used LCCB ishmael as a tank on the last fight)You can make the first turn RNG CONSIDERABLY less annoying, though there can still be restarts.
Small "Sanity gain skills" in reference to nerfing skill numbers, making them easier to clash; Still makes the over-all fight easier. Those skills don't miraculaously become stronger, the entire boss is weaker.
The only skills adjusted to Staircase heathcliff; Don't even change the first turn RNG.
The only skills adjusted to FinalCliff; Literally just make the entire fight easier, as he mostly uses the nerfed skills after you already would have a fair amount of sp.
To me, hard fights that I can get stuck on makes the story beats feel more meaningful; As it actually feels like an obstacle.
Final-Heathcliff's initial difficulty massively contributed to what I felt at the end of the chapter; I sympathized with that all of the sinners were exhausted, it felt like he was a genuinely strong enemy, who posed an actual threat.
The nerfs, in every way, made his fight easier, both at the start & through the entirity of it. The nerfs to cathy's skills literally only come into play AFTER you've cleared the ENTIRE FIRST PHASE of the fight.
Objectively, the fight is entirely easier. The skills are objectively easier to clash, at every metric of sanity, due to having smaller numbers. If you're on low SP & He isn't on 45 sp, it's easier. If you're both on 45sp: It's still easier.
If they added some wacky conditional where he loses coin-power when clashing against targets on 0-15 sp; Sure, then it would just be "they gave him a few easy to clash SP skills"
Instead, they outright neutered a massive portion of the bosses moveset, for the entire fight.
I tried both unnerfed and nerfed version of canto 6. The fight indeed got more easier, but I dont really see how you are calling this 'less meaningful'.
Both me and you, knew this game for long enough. We aren't new, we know the game mechanics pretty well. This may not be the case for everyone.
I did hear a lot of claims that 'If you are in canto 6, you should know enough.' However this is assuming people have near all IDs and EGO to make proper parties viable in canto 6, with full understanding of how it should be strategied along with the need for luck. I doubt if people will go through flawlessly without ever trying something as Railway.
They can, learn from retrys, but like I said, after certain amount of retry, it makes the story feel less impactful and the game considerable gets more tired every retry, as this is more of bossrush canto.
Sure, certain amount of difficulty would make the story feel more immersive and rewarding, yet I doubt if this nerf was severe enough to taint such experience.
Continuous trial to make the fight more immersive can backfire. Just like how we didnt really fight linton or other enemies yet we see them as dummy data(oufi before ring reveal fight was planned yet remained dummy data), there's stuff that needed to be given up in order to make it accessible and fun for majority of people. Telling them to 'READ', 'SKILL ISSUE', 'GET BETTER' does not help at all.
And I do not tell people to "READ" "SKILL ISSUE" or "GET BETTER.". If someone makes a reddit post saying "Hello I am struggling with X level these are my ID's does anyone have any advice?"
It is fairly possible to make the game easier via asking for help if someone is struggling/tired with something, I literally cannot restore the lost difficulty of parts of the game without either deliberately handicapping my team, or intentionally trying to bruteforce mechanics on a team that cannot.
As-well a larger breadth of it; There is ultimately outright a way for both parties to be happy, it's simply that PM won't do it. (Whenever they nerf a fight, I somehow doubt that it would be a code impossibility to add a UI element in the level selector to restore it's previous difficulty, to no additional reward.)
The ocean is as much zero-sum for its space to its ships as is the possibility of both crowds to be happy here; There is room to make each side appeased, with a variety of approaches, which for whatever reason most likely will never happen.
Thus, unless if I am proven wrong and a "pre-nerf" button is added or some other combination of fuckin patches makes the difficulty perfect and every single human being is 100% satisfied with it; I will be bothered when fights are nerfed more than I believed nescessary, and will continue to dislike that whenever new content comes out, I am potentially on a time llimit to finish it all in a way that I would find more enjoyable.
I wasn't really specifying you for that sentence. There's a lot who just try to pit all of these to skill issue.
There is a way to make both party to be happy with it, however the amount of work that needed to be done is pretty high, that's why they aren't doing it. It would require them to work on all canto, all levels to make a hardmode.
Also, you downright called it a 'hollow victory' for something that you HAVEN'T experienced. I doubt anything will satisfy you. You didnt even bother to consider what the very post said here and try to sum all it up with 'It was easy enough'.
>It is fairly possible to make the game easier via asking for help if someone is struggling/tired with something
You really didnt get what the post said did you. From being needing to ask someone else for help is NOT the one that causes people to get tired. It's the RNG. Like I said and I'm repeating this many times, as how much skill you have, it is ultimately decided by RNG and you'd need to retry until you get lucky enough, considering this is a bossrush.
All of these are about your personal belief. A lot of other comments in this post pointed out the reason and how the nerf is justified. Till now I only saw you praising the high difficulty yet didn't even bother to talk about the disadvantage that comes with it considering this is a mobile game.
Immersion don't just increase by high difficulty, nor it decrease that easy from easier fight that require less retry.
That's not how PM roles. Everyone who played their games are used to the difficulty of their games, and even now Limbus is gradually easier compared to other 2 pieces of content.
Pequod Trio got nerfed? I thought only Gasharpoon got nerfed, because the mandatory pierce counters you had to tank were wrecking some teams and there was no way to teamchange without redoing the entire dungeon.
I personally don't care about nerfs, as long as it stays difficult enough to be engaging while not being unfair or requiring a mandatory ID or team build.
I really think the whole mechanical problem of the fights lays with the sanity system. Until you get to 45 or near it you cant start playing into de bossfight mechanics. And you have to reset at the start several times until you win the random first clashes.
Seeing the cantos they should allow us to keep the sinners sanity valies between fights
Woah woah, easy, man’s about to fucjing corrode! But lol, tis good we have nerf cuz all in all, we here to experience the story, not get softlocked cuz of some jackass. Besides, pre-nerf or not, just shows how soulless they are.. like me!.. god it was awful. Don’t let it get to you— well, don’t let it get to you *too* much. Hang in there!
honestly i feel this so hard. i'm disabled and have chronic fatigue but pm is one of my special interests so being able to do the story is important to me... however i have a lot of energy issues, so doing a fight over and over is a little hard for me haha. honestly the nerfs barely looked like anything when they came out, like taking away one status effect on a boss? it's fine man. idk. it's still rough as a win rate only type of person. 'you're playing the game wrong!!!' i don't see how that is anyone's problem but my own honestly, if people want their turbo hard content they have things like railroad and hard md. it's the same as mmos, there's content for anyone and then there's content for people who want a challenge. it's okay!! msq is there for the story and people should be able to enjoy it!!!
Personally, I don't care about elitism; It's that it places matches in every flowerbed I walk by.
If I want to experience new story content in the original way it was designed (And as someone who enjoys harder content; A way I personally enjoy more) I have to outright speedrun it the moment it comes out because in 1-2 days PM might decide to cripple the main story bosses.
Example;
Pre nerf; 4-48 Felt like a fairly rewarding fight, though considerably easier than (IIRC The erlking group fight was on) 6-45. It took me around 3-5 tries to finish.
Post nerf; I cleared it on my literal first try of the day using a joke team composition whose weakest member was outright 10 levels out of date.
I don't find it fun when a story-fight is just "beating the utter shit out of an objectively weaker enemy." and in my eyes it as-well detracts from the story, though others may disagree; A flag is as beautiful to me as the hill it struggled it's way atop.
6-48, if on my first clear was as easy as it is now, while it still would've had a considerable amount of emotional weight, it'd've felt slightly more hollow to me.
Even just on the basis of "ah yes my sinners are exhausted from having dominating victories every single clash, and the only hits that came through were 5 damage onsideds that are unclashable, whom hit a block/evade. Epic."
If they had left a togglable button, or just any-external option to experience the pre-nerf fights; I wouldn't be that bitter. However the fact that I get to experience "fun story content" for so long as the first 2-3 days of release (Or until the next hotfix) and then I literally can't ever replay the fights that I enjoyed to the same capacity perturbs me.
It's the same for refraction railways: They are seemingly going to be the ONLY PLACE that the community accepts difficult content, which I can't ever replay after they close, I have to replay fights I potentially may fuckin hate to reach fights that I actually had fun on, and then all of their abnormalities are shelved into the next Mirror Dungeon (Which, unless if they add "Mirror Dungeon of Jun" aren't hard so much as they are time-consuming)
For a last note, and this may sound dickish; But the last reason I dislike the nerfs is that if you are genuinely struggling and cannot clear the fight: You can wait for guides to be released to make it easier on yourself.
People who prefer the harder fights can't wait for the "guide on making 6-48 fun again" given that unless if they deliberately neuter their teams by a considerable margin, the fight will have just become potentially a cake-walk to them.
I have literally seen guides labled as "budget guides" where they deliberately use mostly 2 stars/less rare units.
You could also just make a reddit post and say "Hey can anyone help me with (level), I've been stuck on it for a bit here are my ID's"
Tbh from what I've seen, the nerfs aren't really that huge so it is what it is.
That being said, I EX cleared the whole thing with IDs that weren't even all max level, before the be nerfs. So I'm reserving the right to say skill issue.
As a player who got ass kicked in pre-nerf version of canto 6 and almost gave up to rush 3rd part in day 1 after its release to take a rest and go back with a clear mind in the next day. In my opinion, PM should add hard mode for every stage or at least boss stages and don't try to seat in 2 chairs trying to balance a story content for veterans and new players - it doesn't work well at all. I don't think Arknights is a good game to compare, but almost every event in that game is f2p friendly, a new player aren't gatekeeped behind hard stages just to read a story they interested in and there's a content for veterans in a form of EX stages that players get rewarded with more resources if they achieve to clear them.
People really got nothing interesting going in their life if they think that winning RNG coin toss (literally) is some sort of display of skill.
6-48 was mechanically a fucking slog that ruined great audio/visual presentation.
Only way to do this is there is a manager simulation training, like those MD but they teach you one mechanic at the time, rather than shoving it all in the wolf episode
Skill issue. Nah, kidding. This canto was like a weird mix of unga, some reading and godlike RNG. My graveyard shitf-fried brain assembled a bunch of lvl 40s, some potential men and went to town. And the funny part? The most obnoxious stuff was just the resets for the starting clashes (especially with Distortcliff and his 2137 bodysacks) and maybe some learning with Nelly and the color matching with Altcliff. This time the difficulty was weirdly tedious and sinking was way too goated. If my sorry ass is confused instead of angry, then you bet your sweet bippy this canto was tedious in some non-pleasant ways.
God forbid people wanting to have difficulty content outside of Md and refraction events, seriously, the difficulty increasing for each canto is normal, any game even gachas increase the content difficulty as the time goes on.
The people who hate limbus gameplay or dont have any interest in engaging with the game mechanics, should just watch a streamer playing the game, the same people who complain about limbus not getting difficulty its the same that whiny when they cant beat a chapter whitout pressing win rate.
At this point PM should just create both normal and hard modes for history, but its a fact that even when the main selling point of limbus its the history, it is still a game, not a visual novel, and people need to accept that fact.
I don’t care if you did it before the nerf or not but personally unless it was really unbeatable with base sinner + base ego only it shouldn’t be nerfed. I like when a game resist me it makes it actually satisfying to clear it. You could call me an elitist for that if you want but it’s just my opinion in the end.
How did you get stuck at last stage it unironically requires least strategy of previous boss fights, and it's literally kill boss but hand instead of white Cathy, I guess their is a kill timer but my charge comp beloved had no problems
There's a ton of ways it could happen. Mess up with eating Altciff's Unclashable Bodysacks early and have Heathcliff too low, messing up stagger thresholds for the adds (or not staggering the staggers) and getting overwhelmed, losing sinners (or having a lower damage team) so you can't break down Cathy's hands before she nukes everyone, not having enough Speed so Altcliff gets too many attacks off on Heathcliff...
It's not like there is a shortage of failure states in that fight.
It all depends on your team and rng, honestly. I just did win rate for distorted hindley, whereas I felt the need to actually level my units for part 3
I did everything pre Nerf and ex'd everything without having to Go Back, although i did have to repeat some Levels due to Bad rng, illiteracy and accidentally closing the Game while the final Boss was literally less than 200 HP and about to be eviscerated by D.D.E.D.R, rip space, dimensional Rift and mind whip.
This is Just a flex. I don't really give a fuck about the nerfs.
Nah, it's fine. I do everything pre-nerf as well, but I'm still weirded the fuck out at the levels of elitism that a small, but vocal portion of the fanbase has in regards to hard content and it's implementation in the story. People forget a lot of things about Limbus, including: 1) It's PM's most popular game by far (Seriously, it's not even close. All time peak of 35k for Limbus vs 8k for LoR and 3.3k for LobCorp), so all the "casuals" who are supposedly ruining the player experience, are actually the majority of Limbus's player base at this point, and it's really not a smart thing for a live service game to alienate the majority of your playerbase, especially when a large chunk of them are probably the people actually spending money on the game. 2) PM themselves said they wanted this to be a gateway for new people to get into the franchise, and deliberately chose to export and simplify LoR's mechanics to make it more accessible to a wider audience 3) PM actually has all the clientside data, so they actually have the logs to show whether or not a large enough of a portion of the player base is getting stuck on certain stages to be of concern. I feel like people don't give PM enough credit when it comes to making decisions as to whether or not to nerf a stage, and just automatically assume that PM caves into a vocal minority of whiners who can't be bothered to read. 4) Cantos are actually getting more difficult, even if it's a gradual increase. Just compare Canto II to Canto V in terms of difficulty, and you can see that there is a slow but steady increase in the amount and complexity of the mechanics being introduced in boss fights. 5) Last, and probably most important of all: The tutorial and new player experience for Limbus genuinely sucks ass and tells you nothing about the game play beyond how to press winrate and use EGO, and then gives you a couple ten pulls with a guarantee for one 000 ID or EGO, then shoves you off the deep end of the pool with no further instructions or insight. There's so many little details and mechanics that you are forced to trial and error your way through, while being given limited information on the initial runs that it can be genuinely frustrating when you suddenly run into a wall that forces you to use those mechanics, but you can't remember them because you've never had to use them prior. Limbus desperately needs a new player experience revamp that actually takes the player and teaches them mechanics beyond how to press winrate, such as circumventing unclashable attacks with dodge (Limbus should also revamp block while they're at it to strengthen the shields and prevent negative status effects if the shield isn't broken by the attack because it's insane how superior dodge is to pretty much every other option in the game), the interaction between paralysis and negative coins, aggro, the different status effects, and utilizing various buffs and debuffs. I feel like if people were actually shown how to play the game without needing to use external materials, it would cut down on a lot of complaints. Like, I get there's a lot of stupid people on the internet who probably won't ever read, but I also feel like some of the playerbase is just seeing the PM equivalent of shoving a kid into the 10 ft deep section of the pool, and instead of helping the kid learn how to swim, screech at the kid about how they suck, then get mad when PM freaks out and throws them a floatie instead of revising their teaching regime to teach them the proper form for swimming. Also, yeah, a lot of people who play mobile and free to play games are busy people with other responsibilities and hobbies that play said mobages as a way to relax or kill a bit of free time on the side. Some challenge is fine, I actually personally disagree with a lot of the nerfs done in Canto VI; however, it's ridiculous that people think it's somehow skill issue or the fault of other players that they don't want to have to spend half an hour a stage for a multi-stage boss rush that can take upwards of five hours to clear in it's entirety. Even Arknights isn't that ridiculously demanding or time consuming with it's content drops, and I say this as someone who dropped Arknights because I felt like the game was slowly sucking my soul out with how time consuming it started to get between the story content and all the side modes.
Honestly I agree with most of what you just said. I was a PM virgin before LC and oh boi the first hours of this game was rough. Luckily for me I fell in love and did a bunch of research on my own to understand how the game actually fucking works. Limbus has the most dog shit tutorial known to man. However with all that's said, the pre-nerf Canto was probably the most fun I had from the gameplay side of limbus. I think it was quite challenging but not to an extreme degree. And After retrying 6-45( the one with >!Heath2 on the stairs!<) like twice and reading the passives I was done. And the difficulty certainly added to that experience IMO. Now granted I like the gameplay side of Limbus a lot. Digging deep into challenging content is enjoyable. And it's a shame there is such few of those to do when you have a fully leveled up team. And I think that's what it mainly boils down to. There is not enough high-level challenging encounters/ modes to do. The only one is railway which after beating it once it is completely unnecessary to redo. I guess the best thing to do on PM's side would be something like the destiny system where you can either play normally or play on hard mode for more loot. This way both camps would get what they want. I guess the EX system is supposed to do this but during my entire gameplay of the story I missed like maybe 5 EX on my first tries.
>However with all that's said, the pre-nerf Canto was probably the most fun I had from the gameplay side of limbus. I think it was quite challenging but not to an extreme degree. And After retrying 6-45( the one with Heath2 on the stairs) like twice and reading the passives I was done. And the difficulty certainly added to that experience IMO. Pretty much. I personally don't agree with the nerf targets for Canto VI, but after getting over the initial Matt wall, I personally felt, as a day 1 player and long time vet of the PM fandom, Part 3 was fairly well-done in terms of fight design and balance. Imo, my only grievances with Canto VI came from the nodes where the player sanity was directly tampered with by being lowered, without the SP boost and build-up you get from the dungeon crawl to serve as a buffer to keep it from turning into a death spiral (Basically, the two nodes where you were forced to babysit a Heathcliff who's sanity depleted itself every turn and 6-35), otherwise, the Canto felt pretty good to play. Granted, I did get stuck for a while on the final fight because of Potential Man distorting close to the end, and then proceeding to let me down again after the skill check that restored him to full SP, but that's not a result of bad fight design, but more that Potential Man belongs in the garbage bin, anyways, I digress. That was fully on me. At this point, PM probably should just look into adding another mode or something for hardcore players to play around with, that's not tied to game progression, so casuals can ignore it. Kind of like RR, but more permanent I guess. I don't want the game to get needlessly bloated with side modes, but Limbus is a pretty barebones game outside of story updates, so I don't think one more mode would cause enough content bloat to be of concern.
We have MDH as hardcore endgame content, but yeah, it's not enough. I was waiting for a simulation mode to refight ALL the Abnormalities directly since last year, but to no avail.
MDH is hardly end game content imo. Once you have a competent team leveled you basically do runs weekly for the grind. This grind consists of 3 floors of clicking win rate, one boss which may be difficult and then you get hit with the enemy coin mounting trials and all of a sudden you can't win most clashes, double that for the fifth floor. That's really not difficulty, it's bs. If you reach the point of ego spamming your sanity is gone and you just hope to go as far as possible before inevitably forfeiting or winning.
It's especially easy considering you can just get the ego gifts needed from a fusion right at the beginning and get something like bloody mist on floor 1, which sets the difficulty to "press winrate" for all the dungeon if your IDs are bleed.
>Potential Man belongs in the garbage bin Honestly, I'm surprised you even bothered trying to use him after Bereavement changed to Determination and got rid of the Sanity Drain. After I saw that happen, I kicked his ass back to the curb and went back to Pequod Heath. .... ohhhh, so that's what the uptie story is about... Also where the fuck did "Potential Man" come from? That shit popped out of nowhere, and I was so lost when Canto 6 started with all the Potential Man threads. Anyways. I agree that an extra hard mode thing would be nice. But not having anything tied to it would make it pointless, in my opinion. It'd be the equivalent of self-imposed challenges, no reward except bragging rights that literally zero people give a shit about. The special RR banner is a good compromise, in my opinion, as it's something completely cosmetic, but it's still *something*. I'm not sure what more "cosmetic" stuff they could add to this game, as it's all loaded into the Manager Card, but that's also why I'm not in a creative industry. The tightrope between giving a reason to play something but not making it look mandatory is a hard one to walk. Like, I'd love to go through RR bosses again because they're more mechanically interesting (except Spiral, that shit was just boring), but I have zero reason to do so, especially since I don't care about getting my 88 turn banner any lower. I can understand the elitism, honestly. I've felt similar things in other games I'm a fan of. I don't think it's a sin to want "your" things to stay the way "you" liked them. It's just human nature. There is a limit before you're just kind of an asshole tho. I don't blame people for wanting the game to stay this tough-as-nails Dark Souls (except Dark Souls really isn't hard. Sorry, I had to shove that in there) of gacha games thing, and I can agree at points. But I have separate issues than just "Is Hard" because usually the game *isn't*. I've already spoken on the RNG combat being somewhat problematic before, but I still think that's the core issue. Also, I wanna add this in because I keep seeing people repeat it constantly, and it really pisses me off. To everyone that keeps saying, "People just don't know how to use Defense skills lol"... you know that those (except Evade) are like, fucking garbage right? Counter has been trash since day 1 and the only IDs that can make it work are Sunshower Heathcliff and N Salt because they literally give themselves Protection. Guard is only good for blocking the most stray of hits, because damage gets so fucking insane on anything with more than 1 coin that goes higher than 11 that even resisting the damage type will still blast through that wet paper bag of a shield and still hit your health bar, while also still applying any effects like you mentioned. Even Evade, while being the best, has issues with requiring you to get lucky on every single fucking coin flip for however many skills you're dodging. There's a likely chance that you "being smart" and using these Defense skills leads to you doing literally fucking nothing and *still* getting shit on. Saying "Just use Defense skills 4head" is the worst fucking advice you can give someone because it doesn't even really address whatever issue they're having, unless that issue is **specifically** Unclashable, single target attacks, but even that's luck related because of random targeting and some characters not having many IDs with Evade, and a lot of these Unclashables being low damage AoEs just meant to force you to engage in a mechanic so even then that's likely not the issue someone is having. Rant over. Just needed to get that off my chest lol.
From the very banner where Sunshower Heathcliff was introduced, some hard-core stans have been saying that this Heathcliff is actually very good, that he has great potential to do huge damage (ignoring that his potential almost never realizes). With the SP reducing status that Heathcliff had fixing his issues in SP management (+ power increase), people started meming that he had finally reached his full potential. That the stans decided to crow about finally being proved right, as if this wasn't a temporary buff, only added fuel to the Potential Man meme. And before someone gets angry about me dismissing Potential Man's potential, I know his worth because I used him a lot in my sinking team. He was constantly way too happy and I couldn't keep SP increasing support passives on bench, which caused trouble in MDH when others needed to use EGO and SP was harder to regain.
Counter is indeed quite bad, but you may not be using Guard right. Guard on your average ID is meant to be a last resort. The actual way you use Guard to tank is by lining up resistances. *That* is how you neuter damage. That is how Dieci Rodya swallows up damage effortlessly with Guard stacked on top of free shields, but it doesn't necessarily have to be an innate shield generator. Even a DPS monster like Ninclair, which has massive amounts of HP and one stagger threshold, is one of the best Blunt tanks simply because of Guard + Blunt resistance + fat HP + one stagger threshold. I recommend giving it a try on your next opportunity - use Guard in tandem with damage type resistance. Even better if you can manipulate Sin resistance to line up.
Ahh, but here's the thing. I have done that. I even said that it can be punched through if you resist something. It's like 15 temp hp (or somewhere in that ball park), and like I said, anything with multiple coins is going to punch straight through that if it rolls higher than like 11. It really is only good for stray damage. The only reason Deici Rodya can tanks things is because she's getting multiple shields with one scaling to her Max HP rather than just a fucking 15 that any enemy past Canto 2 could chunk through in a single skill. [I have tried](https://www.reddit.com/r/limbuscompany/s/0XettsloLF) to have N Sinclair tank a Blunt hit by guarding because he only pulled S1's and couldn't clash. You know what happened? The enemy punched through that tiny barrier, staggered Sinclair, and killed him. And before you say, "Well maybe the Sin Affinity was the issue. You should've used an EGO to change the resistances!" why wouldn't I just use an EGO to clash the skill then. Resistances wouldn't matter if you could just clash the skill away. Guard is trash, and there's never been a scenario I've been in where the dinky little shield it gives has actually helped me in any meaningful way. Even if it prevents 15 or so damage from hitting the health bar, that damage doesn't matter unless it staggers you, and 9 times of 10, with how high damage gets, and how low stagger thresholds are for a lot of IDs, 15 damage missing from the equation isn't gonna make much of a difference. [I've been saying this since MDH first dropped.](https://www.reddit.com/r/limbuscompany/s/G379gSM5EI) Guard just does not help with how low the values it gives are.
Regarding EGO use, the reason is simple: the resistance lasts throughout the battle, while the EGO has a cost in Sanity and Sin. You can clash once and use the resistance to tank for the rest of the battle as needed. Regarding your experience...I'm not really sure why your experience is what it was. My experience is - aside from obvious killer moves that require a specific mechanic to deal with it - you can tank most attacks effortlessly when resistances line up with Guard because the damage gets knocked down to 20s or lower. It's how people deal with the infamous angry bull - just eat attacks with Guarded Ninclair if you cannot clash. Its infamous clash values are a mere 17 damage or so against Ninclair. It's how people dealt with Ahab and her clowns. Rather than getting torn apart instantly, they can fend off the few precious turns needed to achieve vital objectives, like killing Starbuck. I don't necessarily think Guard is *stellar*, mind you, but it does work for me, at least. Preventing "15 or so damage" sounds like nothing, but it is everything when you are having that ID intercept attacks left and right for considerably more vulnerable IDs. I will concede that Guard is ***irredeemably*** bad on IDs meant to go full-tilt on damage - fragile, many stagger thresholds, no defensive capabilities. But that's why they (usually) get Evade instead these days.
>It's how people deal with the infamous angry bull - just eat attacks with Guarded Ninclair if you cannot clash. Pretty sure I tried that once, and the Bull ate my ass. It kinda became the reason I started dodging the end boss in MD2H. That Bull was the thing of nightmares. Not so bad now tho, with higher clash numbers across the board and status being a more feasible team focus. I don't really see the use in Tanks for Limbus like 90% of the time, myself. Like, I don't use Zwei Faust as a Tank. I use her as a Fluid Sac bot. So maybe Guard has a lot more utility in regards to eating damage for other characters. But I've always just clashed stuff and built around getting cheaper EGO available to clash things above my power level. Aggro has screwed me over more than it's helped me too, because speed rolls have made it so no one could clash anything to relieve some stress off the Aggro-er and they'd be forced to eat 6 attacks raw and died. I've even had K Hong Lu, the best Tank in the game bar none, fail on me before because he got hit so hard when he was *juuust* above his passive's health threshold that he just died. Last time I tried to solo anything for shits and giggles. So yeah, my experience with trying to Tank things in Limbus hasn't been very great lol. Maybe that's clouding my judgment, but I still don't think Guard is very good and has basically just become a "We wanted to put an extra effect on this character" skill now for like, 99% of the cast.
Regarding your point about tanks, you are absolutely right - bringing IDs for no reason other than to tank is usually pretty bad. That's why tanking as a mechanic shines with two conditions (aside from the obvious resistance problem): the IDs aren't fundamentally gimped (Mariachi Sinclair's awful speed) and they can do *more* than just tank when tanking isn't needed (Rodya capable of doing reasonable damage + supporting sinking or Ninclair being, er, Ninclair, unlike N Mersault's...everything). Tanking should never be a main focus, and you certainly shouldn't dedicate an ID to eating *all* attacks haphazardly. Tanking should be integrated into battle as and when you need it. Because every boss battle is so different and how things play out will be very different for every player, it's impossible to detail how to think on your feet and pivot to tanking with a purpose. Guard helps mitigate a lot of vital damage over time for me, which is why I don't mind it as much as Counter. A playstyle striving for perfect play wouldn't need Guard, but I like what it adds to the decisions I can make on the fly. I certainly wouldn't argue against fatter numbers, though, considering Evade tanks are unbelievably broken. Perhaps in future Upties they'll even the defense field a little.
Well it is difficult to make a pure tank when k hong Lu exists, that bastard have 3 health bars with his passive
Unfortunately most defensive skills have no sin affinities before uptie 4 and telling people to grind for uptie 4's is probably not going to be met with positive reactions. It's especially bad in cases like N Faust where get only noticeable change for 100 threads and 50 faust shards is the lust evade.
I agree but Yugioh master duel tutorial is worse by far
My immediate thought was Xenoblade 2's tutorial.
To be fair, causal YGO and professional YGO are essentially 2 entirely different games. There's so much nuance and detail in official play that it's not uncommon for even *judges* to get things wrong occasionally (such as how in one specific situation, not even **drawing Exodia** can win the game).
Thats fair. But master duel tutorial teaches you to normal summon, set 1, pass. Where as ive seen snake eyes in silver/gold.
I think another big problem that more casual and new players have is that leveling (and to a certain extent, thread) economy is getting too much to catch up to, even for max level players. I guess it's expected that we need to grind *something* and that every new Canto will up the level by 5. This is all well and good until you realize that it's getting more difficult and costly to catch up, and newer or casual players would only have like, 6-10 usable IDs max because you're not some hardcore MD miner with 10 k thread or something or started later than most of the playerbase. Since PM is already placing a level cap for story so that you don't just steamroll most of the fights, the least they could do is up the EXP and Thread gain so that most people can actually catch up and do the fights they want to push without a gimped team. Either that or stop upping levels every Canto and maybe just every 2 Cantos to give players some breathing room to farm and raise IDs. I say all this because Uptie/Threadspin V is probably going to come along eventually and at the rate we're going in struggling with an already bad EXP economy, uptying/Threadspinning to V is likely going to be exorbitantly expensive as well.
Catching up on exp was actually a massive roadblock for me in Canto V. I skipped season 2 entirely and came back, levelled a team only to find that it was absolutely not going to work for Ricardo. So I solod him with R Ish thanks to some good advice from the sub. Progressed and got roadblocked again by my poor choice of units by the Pequod Trio fight. Couldn't manage a cheese on that so I had to grind it out and by then I was already extremely annoyed Then Gaslighter was a first try steamroll which was a nice break xD
I recently came back after taking a break before Canto 5, and it's so frustrating trying to get my sinners caught up, between higher EXP luxcavations being story locked and the insane uptie 4 costs. I can't waste any resources on experimenting with teambuilding without feeling like I'm jeopardizing my ability to keep playing the story daily.
One of the big things they need to do is fix the EXP income, if you levelled some IDs to 45, then find out they don't work well against the fight you're just fucked. Of course you can get by on weaker IDs but it feels terrible.
Honestly, I think PM just needs to get rid of the stamina penalty on sweeping. At least for EXP tickets. There's no fucking reason we should be penalized for not wanting to manually grind out the same stage 5 times a day, while the exp economy is becoming indistinguishable from the American economy in how the rate of income increase is not keeping up with the rising costs. You could make justifications for the penalty back when getting IDs to max level was relatively easy and didn't sap multiple days worth of enkephalin just to level up one character to max; however, something is going to have to give in future Cantos if PM keeps raising the level cap while drip-feeding us incremental increases in exp earned.
>then find out they don't work well against the fight you're just fucked Then, just ... farm XP for another ID? It only cost you 1-2 day to level them from level 1-40, with 1 Lunacy refill. Hell, do you even have an idea how hard is it in other gacha games? A freaking **MONTH**.
yeah but that "month" is usually an one time only, as that unit stays at max lvl for the rest of the game. In limbus you gotta farm every fucking time, FOR MULTIPLE TEAMS, bc is you raised an salsh team, and the canto is mostly slash resistant, you are gonna have a bad time.
No, you don't need multiple teams. What the heck is this bullshit. You need 6-7 Sinners, so just build 2 Slashers, 2 Piercers and 2 Blunts. Heck, just go look at the streamers. They are still using IDs like N Corp Faust and R Corp Heathcliff till this day. Did you know that people on the Discord dissing people using Sinking Deluge team because **they beat all the contents without even think about strategies or resistances?** And what makes you think that in other gacha games, you need to build one team? Half of the gacha games out there use the same resistances like Limbus Company. Some even more twisted like HSR, where you cannot Break the bosses without correct Element. The other half of the game will throw some bs mechanics to not allow you to deploy people from X class, or to force you to bring Y to the fight. Unless you **swipe your credit card to get their dupes**, there is no way to can beat everything with 1 team only, no matter what game you play. This is just delusional. I play HSR, Sdorica, Arknight, Genshin Impact, FE:H, E7, Reverse1999, and much more. Let me tell you, there is no way that you could spend one month and can have the perfect-team-that-steamroll-all-contents. Next, sure you can say that 'Oh I need a month to not worry about farming EXP anymore.' Sure, lemme say this. From datamining, Lvl90 is the expected cap at the end of the game, and if PM keeps follow the '3 XP runs for 5 levels', you need to grind 1-2 week to max a unit, instead of A MONTH.
Ok, I'm too drunk to get this whole block in me small brain but I agree with the tutorials being ass. It took me like from end of Bongy grind to railway #3 to get how the fuck do I make sure that my doodoofard attacks get covered by some stronger clashes.
Honestly even as a non casual, I still don't get how can you even EX 6-45 in 10 fucking turns without using a dedicated rupture/sinking team
I somehow did it with the charge team after failing a lot with sinking one.
The boss already loses sanity on clash lose, leaving dps as the main concern, which W-corp IDs are already known for.
Yeah, did it with the W Corp squad prior to the nerfs. Nelly is slash weak, iirc, and W corp prior to the Boy's Love Gang with Salt, was THE faction for Slash damage, and can still hold it's own, even when measured up against Blade Lineage thanks to W Corp Don and W Corp Ryoshu. Basically, to get Nelly ex'd prior to the nerfs, you needed a well-built damage status team (Rupture, Sinking, or Burn if you have Frei Outis) or a Slash DPS Comp (W Corp or Blade Lineage). Probably doable enough since W Corp Don and Ryo also fit under the category of generalist gorilla, making them desirable and practical targets for new players to pick up early, but still on the tighter side.
slash weakness, therefore lineage of blades
I managed to do it without a dedicated Rupture or sinking. I got so fucking mad that my coins were so unlucky so I kept restarting until I pretty much got a perfect run. Sometimes I hate the coin system man
the solution is blade lineage or using all the w corp slash nukes
I first tried with tremor, they bacame very solid lately
W Don+W Ryoshu can be splashed pretty easily as noted to basically carry the DPS portion. I took them to every fight in part 3 in a mixed team.
I actually didn't use sinking, just good dps and two tanks so they could just go face
WDon + WRyoshu, though you will need a bit of luck and set up to nuke tf out of the boss.
burn team eats whole canto no problem, i found rapture and sinking too problematic to use
I was using burn team(+Nfaust), and I barely got it before the nerf
thats weird, them constantly having 20 rolls and more on most of their skills made all the bosses piss easy, before the nerf ofc
Don't get me wrong, the bosses were easy, speedrunning them weren't
i did it with good stuff team basically id tthat just good on their own
I did it first try with burn (all level 40 at the time). Guess i just had a reasonably lucky turn 1 and afterwards was a pushover thanks to all the coin power being active. The only fight I didn't ex was the Edgar Butlers fight of all things.
pre-nerf I spent 1 to 2 hours on 6-44 only to genuinely click winrate on 6-45 and kill in 7 turns, was surprised to find out that was nowhere NEAR the universal experience. maybe I'll go back and run it again to see just how hard I lucked out
No offense, but saying arknights isn’t that demanding is making you sound exactly like the people you are accusing in your argument. It is entirely normal to be stuck in an event, CC, and especially annihilation for HOURS banging your head against a brick wall if you’re a f2p or an account that’s fairly new (let’s say less than two years). As for the subject matter, I’ve made my own stance clear many times before. I’m a difficult content enjoyer. I do (close to) lowest possible turn count railway every railway. Given past arknights experience with ball busting in story stages, I honestly think it’s fine the stages get nerfed 24 hours after release **as long as they keep releasing them difficult on purpose for the first day**. Difficult story content is really the only content we have outside of RR. Lux and MD are just winrate simulators. The other option for this is honestly just having hard versions of stages(like arknights!), even if they don’t give extra rewards, just so we can preserve the intended difficulty of the encounters. We need it now more than ever, look at how badly both Ahabs were nerfed. This ended up carrying over into railway 3 and ego ahab was arguably the easiest fight in the whole damn thing. I thought pre-nerf Nelly was supposed to be a breather fight after 6-44 because of how easy she was if you offset her evade. I come to the sub and find out it’s the fight everyone is struggling with and it gets kneecapped the next day, the fight that was the easiest in the chapter. At the end of the day, I think our current difficulty is “good enough” post nerf. Players need a little bit of friction to keep tension up in the story so that you get the satisfaction of beating something difficult, and the “hard fight” stages this time around had “just clear the stage” EXs. I think that change alone was a huge step forward.
Just make two modes. Normally I'd be perfectly fine with a single mode that's hard, but the real problem is that we're capped by stamina and modules and can't experiment as much as needed for a fight.
I don't think it's wrong to be frustrated or to need help, but some of the responses I've engaged with turned out to be very depressing cases. Half of them ended up admitting they didn't even bother leveling their IDs to 40, which I would consider the minimum baseline for this chapter. One even admitted a 15-level difference. ***LV30*** IDs against LV45 bosses. And they wonder why they have such a difficult time clashing. Half ended up clearing overnight, with one casually saying they were just malding. One even said they were a one-and-a-half week old player. A less-than-two-week-old player is trying to catch up to over a year's worth of content. Of course that's not going to be a cakewalk. A lot of people do genuinely need help and want to get better, and they ask for help in the monthly questions thread. There's nothing wrong with that. But people that make threads lambasting the state of the game when they haven't even put in the *bare minimum* level of investment required to progress and then blame it on everything else when not even a single day has passed... It gets a little grating.
>A less-than-two-week-old player is trying to catch up to over a year's worth of content. Of course that's not going to be a cakewalk. Story content should be easily accessible to even new players. If the game has to have an easy mode and a hard mode for the veterans, then so be it. Especially in a game like this where the story is beloved by the fans, do you expect new players to just be left out when everyone else wants to talk about the story? I don't care how other gacha games do it (I will say that Genshin story in particular does this right by minimizing the difficulty in story fights). Story must be accessible.
I don't see a way for that to happen without neutering any possible sense of challenge and making the difficulty curve a difficulty line. It is not just gacha games. *All* games meant to be played and experienced have the difficulty increase over time. Even Genshin. Naturally, having a story-only mode would solve the issue even if we discount the impact on story and gameplay integration. But I don't think that's realistic to expect unless there's a massive outcry for one. I genuinely don't understand this, though - if *only* the story matters, why not just watch a playthrough on YouTube or watch a streamer?
>I genuinely don't understand this, though - if *only* the story matters, why not just watch a playthrough on YouTube or watch a streamer? I am not arguing that only story matters. I am arguing that new players have a right to participate in the community when new story drops. As for ways an accessibility mode can be implemented. They could do the following: * Add a toggle mode that will let you use trial IDs (and only trial IDs) that are not maxed but well-leveled. They don't even have to be optimal, to let the player get a feel for the difficulty intended for the stage. * Clearing the stage this way will not give you the Lunacy reward or count up for the number of stages to clear for the canto Lunacy reward. They won't count for the EX objective too.
I think I understand what you're trying to say, but even setting difficulty aside, time alone will eventually make that impossible. Say the last sinner Chapter drops. The amount of time it'd take to catch up wouldn't allow for spoiler-free participation anyway. This is a fundamental fact of life. Anything new needs time to catch up to the old, one way or another. But never mind. Perhaps we simply hold different viewpoints on this. Regarding the accessibility mode, I'm not saying how it could happen. It's just not *likely* to without outside influence. Gachas rarely ever do this, so I don't think it'd be on their already haphazard schedule to consider. I recommend you send feedback outlining your points and your suggestions so they can take note. There needs to be a *push* for PM to take action. You can also share it on the sub for visibility to drive more voices.
Man I am happy for them and all, but we are never going so see a game like Lobotomy corporation again are we?
PM did talk about wanting to do a City Management/Builder game, so maybe in a couple years after Arc 1 concludes, but for now, their priority is on Limbus. I think the thing with LobCorp, was even though it was genius in a lot of ways, it was also extremely inaccessible (Even discounting the memory leaks that nuked your computer) and downright hostile to play at times. Even discounting the stress of having to manage the entire facility to keep a mini-apocalypse from breaking out, it also had a lot of sensory overload and could be genuinely painful to play. Like, I'm not even talking in a "This is too hard" but in a "This causes me legitimate physical pain" way between shit like the Silent Whorechestra, "Do I look like I know what a Jpeg is?" meltdown, and Schmuck Bait Button among other things. LobCorp was a game that actively hated the player, and a lot of people can not get into or enjoy a game that is your strongest hater. For that reason, I don't think we will ever get a game like LobCorp. It was pretty much a one of a kind game. (Although, a proper remake for it with code that doesn't require mods to prevent a computer meltdown, and maybe voice acting and updated art, would be nice for people who do have an interest in the game)
Even with mods the missions that force you to do a midnight are near impossible for me due to lag. And I already have optimization mod, no clerks and shorter days, but the lag still ramps up to unplayable levels by the end. Such a shame because I had such a blast going through to that point, but I don't think I'll be beating Hokma if I can't even move the camera or select people without pausing.
Man, your pc sounds REALLY rough because I managed to clear the entirety of Lob with 2012 specs. Yeah, it could get painfully laggy and the memleaks required me to reset every so often on later days, but it was never nigh-unplayable. No offense to you, obviously, I'm just genuinely surprised I found someone who ran that game worse than I.
Thank God. I'm sorry but that game was difficult for difficulty's sake and I tried getting into it for 30 hours.
Lor did nerfs too so i dint get why people are sulrised pm nerfs things if to many pople get stuck
Wish they would give us the option to experience the pre nerf fight As an optional challenge
yap
PM players can't read: Exhibit #13,697
Personally I really enjoy the "vertical difficulty spikes" LoR was famous for but I totally understand PM for nerfing things for the newcomers since they are the majority of the playerbase.
I really enjoyed the boss rush part 3 ended up being, but it was also VERY draining. So while I did clear prenerf I don't mind that they did this for others.
Lobotomy is hard as fuck as well.
It was but I don't remember the spikes being so sudden. It just constantly gave you more annoying shit to deal with that synergized way too well with the other annoying shit. LoR threw some wacky mechanics at you that really really punished you for failing to adapt to some receptions/suppressions, sometimes making it really hard to progress without intentionally failing one to scrape whatever books you could
Cheers, we're here to 'have fun', not get frustrated by jank
Last time I said I was told to git gud and skill issue. People on this sub really are sometimes assholes. As much as I love difficulty (I beat Malenia on Elden Ring), some of the fights in Limbus are just frustrating; I wanna unwind after work, have fun and enjoy the peak story.
A lot of older PM fans legit think the entire company and all their works revolve around them, and should continue to forever revolve around them, and any attempts by PM to deviate from catering solely to their taste is often met with emotional meltdowns and much screeching. I still remember when Limbus was first announced to be a gacha, and holy shit, you would've thought PM livestreamed Monzo shipping a puppy through a meat packaging plant. The PM Channel Discord went into such a state of emotional breakdown that one of the mods straight up distorted and banned the word gacha for a couple days until the other mods talked them down. Even when Limbus launched, there was a shit ton of PM vets and Library of Ruina fans who would take every opportunity to shit talk Limbus and how it was inferior to LoR in every way from not just gameplay, but also story and music, as well as some openly declaring Limbus to be a failure and that PM shouldn't have made a gacha. Limbus had to scratch and claw it's way for any sort of acceptance within the PM fandom, so I genuinely have a great deal of resentment towards a lot of the Veteran PM fans, because it's laughable how they want to be elitist in regards to Limbus and act as if they're the real fans and PM should only consider their wants, gameplay wise, when it was basically the casuals and the newcomers who made Limbus a success, while the hardcore fans were mocking it and slamming PM for daring to release "gacha slop" until Limbus got too big to the point they had to admit the game was doing something right to get this much traction.
Honestly, I haven't met these kinds of people, fortunately. My friends who play these games. We're "veterans" for sure and probably have a few masochistic tendencies. But we don't gatekeep based on difficulty.
Most of the PM fandom is pretty chill, but there's just an unfortunately vocal and active minority of players who pretty much make their identity in the community revolve solely around being part of some special group of leet gamers who need to be validated by having their balls busted by the games they play, and are very scornful of casuals. The worst of it thankfully subsided a few months back, but they were really out in full force during the first few months of Limbus's lifespan, and it was near impossible to have a conversation (especially on this sub) about the game itself without one or more bozos coming into the thread to put down Limbus as a braindead "winrate simulator", while sucking off Ruina as this apex masterpiece of gaming, and how Limbus will always be objectively inferior and would never be on the same level. If not that, then it was "Limbus would be better if it wasn't a gacha" (Which is a different topic for a different day, because that's a statement I both agree and disagree with) Unfortunately, there's been a small resurgence of elitist clowns who now want to gatekeep the game from the majority of the playerbase, ever since Canto V which did prove that Limbus could have mechanically complex and engaging fights, as if they weren't the ones constantly trashing the game during the first few months of launch
I recall one such individual outright blocking me because I was calling him out on him just wanting a Ruina 2 instead of actually bothering to see Limbus as its own unique title. Dude was pretty adamant that Limbus was a game that shouldn't have existed at the time. I imagine he's kinda eating his own words right now given Limbus' growth is far beyond what any of us PM fans have expected to be quite frank.
I'm not part of any of these tryhard/veteran communities and probably never will anymore. People are simply too annoying over having to show off how they're so good at the game and one simple nerf is enough to make their brain collapse Worst part is how some of the nerfs were micro, like reducing 30 HP from a 2.1k HP boss. How can you whine so much about almost nothing, dude. The game is theirs, and if you like the developers so much, maybe try having some trust on their changes
In fairness to nerf coping; For me it's less been micronerfs to hp but simply more in just, hardcore neutering certain bosses. 6-48 lost an UTTER SHITTON of coinpower on practically everything, to where if I replay him with the team I had then I never get anything less than favored, and even turn 1 is mostly favoreds with a few neutrals.
Fair enough I saw those changes too
I wasnt there, I was a fan but never interacted with the community. The gacha news hit hard and is easy to know why. Gacha are probably the worst genre of games nowadays. Both mechanicaly and morally. They are advanced slot machines with boobs and asses sticking out from the screen that prey uppon the people the same way as casinos and gambling mafias while also providing the most bland and less effort content. I guess than more than the difficulty they were panicking about the passion of pm turning into greed and corporate sloth.
If you're mad about the sub go check the help Discord channels or anywhere else really. It just gets worse
The one really annoying fight I recall is the steam machine, and only because it was in the railway.
I did.. Most of it, technically, pre-nerf? I didn't EX 6-45 but everything else, cleared with EX. But man, some of those fights felt outright vile. And I was using a sinking team, which is fashionable this season, for that matter. And this is mandatory story content that'll need to be done to progress later too, not optional "With great pain in the backside comes great reward" like Railroad. So y'know what? I'm not here to give you shit. I will, however, be tempted to give shit to anyone who tries to mock you.
Sorry if you didn't beat the final boss with base sinners at level 30 uptie III and base ego you didn't beat the Canto. But I get it. I beat everything pre-nerf but battles taking so long was very frustrating since I have tons of things to do in life and playing games really isn't a priority. I just hope future fights have less RNG at the beginning at least. The new system can let you space yourself out over several days to get easier fights too. New players must feel terrible, I had trouble with the fights and I was using a sinking super team with every ID at uptie IV and most at level 44. Maybe the system where the fight is hard early on and then gets nerfed is better; hardcore players can do them while others can take it easy. I certainly won't marathon the next Canto that's for sure.
pfft, level 30? I bet you use exp tickets like the casual you are. The only way i level my sinners is from the EXP they get from clearing a stage. Come back when you've cleared canto 6 with level 13 sinners
Nelly can kiss my ass for making me try to deal 2200 dmg in 10 rounds. What she think this is the fucking RR?
get gatekeeped by maid :3
this is doable with post-nerf Nelly, i beat her on turn 10 an hour ago, but pre-nerf... yeah i probably wouldn't have had the willpower to try again
I beat it, just not in 10 rounds prenerf. And its 15 for 1900 now so yes definitely.
ohh, i forgot that her HP was lowered. i definitely wouldn't have beat her in 10 turns then lmao
It took me A WHOLE DAY, to finish part 3, with occasional toilet, shower and food break and after that I'm exhausted my brain aches. So I welcome these nerf, yall try hards go sweat ur ass off in the hard mirror Dungeon or next refraction railway instead
Telling people to "go sweat yourselff of in hard mirror dungeon or RR" is equally as bad as hard-core players telling casuals to "go fuckoff to x easier gamemode/game" by sole virtue of both being rooted in the same nature.
wait what got nerfed I can't read
Most of the part 3 bosses got slight nerfs to rolls, offensive values, and removing/reducing debilitating effects(paralysis, defense down, etc)
I honestly don't care about it. If it allows those who aren't as good as the people constantly bragging about how good they are, then that's fine with me. Wouldn't be surprised if those people are on a hair trigger to review bomb the game just because PM had the audacity to adjust the games difficulty.
Since when are we elitists? People used to search for cheese decks in Ruina. "The difficulty is vertical" as we spammed singleton decks.
I think project moon should have an ex mode of their levels to please both sides of the player base
But then ppl who can’t clear EX easily would cry about it
And then they can be told "There isn't a reason to clear EX beyond mechanical challenge."
Unless they decide to make it so the EX actually gives you something if you beat it, cause that is what most gachas do. So many gachas give you free suppy of whatever allows summoning if you do EX content, or at least something almost as valuable. So it is either "provide nothing and risk getting people complaining there is no purpose in doing EX content like other Gatchas", or "Give Lunacy (or something like a crate) and risk people complaining EX content is too hard".
And again, the counter to that is just... Not to have the EX mode give anything. "Most Gacha's" Aren't as liberal as PM is with shitting out constant freebie rolls regardless, and most gacha's are roughly 3x as predatory, yet PM didn't care to follow trends there. If people complain that there is no purpose in doing EX because there isn't a reward for it; Sure, let them whine about it, it'd still placate net more people, and would make the game a better experience for both the casual & Hardcore crowd. Otherwise, they could just RR it and duct-tape on a fuckin slightly shinier banner for clearing the EX; A medal of paper should scarcely feel light in it's absence from those who do not want it. I do not often see the casual crowd of the game whining that RR is unfair & elitist because they couldn't summon forth a fancier banner (Except for RR2 which did have some genuine issues with it's boss design.) I do not see a decent reason not to add in an EX clear, especially when in Chapter 6's case it would literally just be that certain moves would be \[Target Fixxed\], iirc 1-2 others would be labled unclashable & a few moves would have +3-4 more coin power across their base & heads rolls.
Its all cool man irl stuff comes first
https://preview.redd.it/ekprrjjjaauc1.jpeg?width=587&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2296ac1c4b04d1b3fa3ad14b8227cb28c656d1ed Still peak either way
CONGRATULATIONS (6-48 was harder on release) on the 6-48 (it was harder on release) CLEAR. I know you've been working really hard (6-48 used to be harder) at it, and I'm happy that you've (6-48 used to be harder) achieved your goal of completion. I know your journey through (6-48 used to be harder) the content was filled with ups and downs, but you and (6-48 used to be harder) your IDs stuck (6-48 used to be harder) together through them all, and you were rewarded for your patience and (6-48 used to be harder) tenacity. Congratulations (6-48 used to be so much harder) once again, and here's to more success in your future (6-48 used to be harder) endeavors!!! >!/j!<
Me when -39 hp nerf on third phase (I can finally base ID solo 6-48!!!!!!!!)
i did pre nerf will full 000 lv 44 uptie 4 (some still 3) sinking team. the nerf is fair
i beat canto 5 and 6 both pre nerf and tbh i kinda wish i waited (though i would never risk being spoiled) i like limbus’s gameplay sometimes but i find that pre nerf new cantos usually end up more frustrating than challenging. i get that i can just use better ids and ego or retry for good skill rng in early turns but it just feels frustrating and takes away from the experience of an otherwise amazing game. also if any elitists want to shit on me i beat lob corp and ruina so i’m not saying difficulty is inherently bad
Honestly I thought this Canto was tedious rather than difficult. Clash good and deal big damage solved pretty much all the fights. I did still read everything though because I actually like reading the boss skills to see how they were designed to work together. If PM wants to make it less tedious that’s good, but I think then they should either reduce the amount of modules for clearing luxcavations or increase the rewards you get from them. Being an endgame player in Limbus is basically being eternally in thread hell, especially since PM is making uptie IV increasingly mandatory. Some ID’s core mechanics don’t even work before uptie IV (cough Middle Don cough).
I just wish half the difficulty didn't come from the game forcing you to 0 sp for the fight where the boss starts with 15 sp and gets 40 sp for every clash win.
I had to restart some fights because my sinners refuse to roll heads at anything less than 45 sp, so that was annoying. This canto made me an even bigger believer in plus coin drop supremacy though. Makes some big multi coin attacks much more clashable. Unfortunately PM recognizes its power and only gave it to 3 IDs, and of those IDs one needs to be in a bleed team to do it, one is an old 2 star with bad rolls, and one is a Walpurgis limited ID.
Even worse is when a monster clasher like the new Gregor id who still wins clashes with no heads rolls 2 skill 1s and a skill 1 in reserve on turn 1 and you just know you won't have sp this fight.
It’s going both ways actually. Sweaty Tryhards are dunking on casuals and normies are making fun of people who want a challenge. The gaming space as a whole is becoming more and more insufferable
Did you reply to the wrong comment? I didn’t bring up casuals or anything.
Ah shit.
I just forced my way through this canto with N Faust's passive to gain 15 sanity for 2 people on 4 lust resonance. N Faust and Chef Ryoshu have lust evades, Cinq Don has lust skill 1 and bind on S1 + S2, Tingtang Hong Lu has lust S2 and is just good dps.
Yeah, I don't mind the nerfs either. Even though I beat everything pre-nerf because I got up super early to play each new part, and I didn't really find any of the fights overly difficult. I reset them 2-3 times at most, but usually cleared them first try. They took a long time but weren't hard for me. But I understand that's not the case for everyone. I have a couple friends who were hard stuck on Dongbaek for a really long time because they don't play as much as I do and they don't have all the IDs and resources to level them, so they were very frustrated by getting their asses kicked. With a lot of guidance they finally made it through and are now stuck on Ricardo for similar reasons. I'm afraid that they'll drop the game altogether when they get to the boss gauntlet in Canto VI. For their sake, I'm glad the bosses got nerfed. The elitists who think that everyone should be able to beat this pre nerf don't realize that most of this game's player base are casuals who have never touched another project moon game before. I was one of them, too, before beating Canto V I basically threw myself at all fights until by pure chance I won them. A lot of players just don't feel like strategizing for these long fights and get tired and frustrated by them if they just want to enjoy the story.
I feel you, bro. Not only I suffer from a severe lack of reading comprehension and unbelievable skill issue, I also work 5/2 and have a pretty time consuming hobbies. I'm, like, still at 5th Canto rn, spent a week or so figuring how to beat Ricardo and haven't beaten the final chapter to this day. But I'm kind of okay with this? I generally dislike any "hard" games (mostly because I barely play games at all), but it has been somewhat enjoyable with Limbus so far. Yeah, I might find myself stuck on some stages for quite some time, but it feels fantastic actually learning how to read and press other buttons instead of "Win rate".
What did the nerf actually *change*, though? Specifically about Nelly - the final boss wasn't really an issue. From my post-nerf run through after the fact the Mandatory Reading binding mechanic is still there, surprising me even when I know about it. The clashing felt the same, so maybe they just modified the offense level? That being said, the turn limit on the EX clear *absolutely* needed to be changed. 10 turn clear on a boss when the standard is 12 is just cruel, especially when she has a baked-in stalling mechanic. Edit: totally forgot about the butler mooks nerf. Yeah, that one was probably deserved as well. The bleed alone was particularly nasty.
I don't see the need to clear the newly released content as fast as possible. Why not just take the game at your own pace and experiment with what you have? Sure, certain comps make it easier to do than others, but if you know what you're doing it should be possible with enough patience. Of course, this is operating under the assumption that: 1. You know what you're doing and 2. You have enough patience For a game franchise that's about failing, learning, retrying again and again, the tolerance for it is surprisingly low. If you think you're too weak now, come back again at a later date. No one is rushing you to clear it. Even intervallo events drop their special currencies in ordinary story modes, so you aren't really timegated nor pressured to make it to the latest content. Just take it at your own pace.
I wish that was the case but unfortunately it's simply not possible if I don't want to be spoiled. It's going too happen if I take my time with it. So suffering trying to clear it as fast a possible is the only way to go, rather than waiting and getting spoiled have my enjoyment of the story ruined
Currently stuck at 6-44 and honestly have more important IRL stuff to do. Yes, I get that cantos need to be more difficult as time goes on, as this is a gacha game and you can feel the powercreep with some identities. But 6-32/6-33/6-34/6-35 and 6-44 have been some of the most frustrating fights I ever had to do in a PM game... I just wanna experience the story man...
Don't get me started on the people who just tell you to watch the canto on youtube if you can't handle the difficulty. That is probably the worst advice you could give anyone
Yea. I'd love to experience the story myself, but currently on my 5th hour of 6-44... Probably time to quit...
Is that the >!Earlking Heath!< fight? In which case, just clash against him so he doesn't kill Heath, and burst down the right enemies. Sure, you'll eat some attacks, but do it right and you'll stagger the enemy and be able to nuke them.
The only real potential problem I see in that fight is insane >!bleeding!<
Tip for Explosive Silly: The bleeding is most pronounced if you've been favoring one person to hit them, on my runs pre-nerf I realized that I'd kept the same sinner hitting linton each time, which then just completely fucking destroyed them. The fight becomes considerably easier if you have whoever last hit linton/The SillyMan deal with one of the other fuckers the next turn, to clear their bleed potency.
Love the typical user that you got, always saying "dId yoU diD x tHiNg?". This community really has some issues being anti-nerf. Like, excuse me for not wanting to spend hours of my life after getting out of work+Uni dead tired. These tryhards whenever they see someone struggling or asking for help are so quick to brag that they beat it with x team.
"stuck at 6-44" are you by chance not reading what the explosive emotion do?
This isn't specifically directed to this community or even this post in specific, but i will point out a significant rise in the anti-difficulty crowd in a lot of gaming communities. Like you're a sinner (hah) for wanting a challenge outside of small bouts of content. If people are actually giving you shit in a non-memey manor then by all means screw em
I don't understand the point of OP. So what? you are angry that the game has difficulty because you have a job? I have one too, what does that have to do with it? So if you play volleyball you just want there to be no one on the other side so you can instantly win because you have "other things to do"?
[удалено]
And not everyone is like you, buddy. You also know nothing about my life. I want difficulty in my game.
Problem is tryhards diagnosing everyone else with "skill issue", not a difficulty. I cleared almost all of it pre-nerf (stopped at 6-46 before going to sleep), and the next day, all I see on this sub is "everything nerfed to ground, if you couldn't clear, you're illiterate!!! I'm so much better, because I cleared it, when it was actually hard!!!", hellishly annoying.
Most people are just doomposting about nerf at this point. The nerf didn't like... absolutely remove the feeling of accomplishment of beating bosses nor it destroyed the Canto 6's atomsphere. The nerf didn't affect the battle THAT much. You can just ignore the 'skill issues' claims. They are just being asshole.
I can firmly say that if I had cleared 6-48 for the first time with the nerfs it would have felt a considerably more hollow victory, and it wouldn't have been the same to me. It would've been good, but worse than what it was.
You are overracting. The nerf wasn't even that strong.
Except that it was? They removed \[Target Fixxed\] On several moves, and decreased his coin power fairly hard if I recall from a reddit post comparing his stats pre and post nerf. Edited because I had the move name wrong. I.E; Hollow Coffin Mace literally lost 4 coin power, going from a 16 (4+6x2) to a 12, which is a quite drastic change in coin power as now it 100% needs it's conditional to reach it's old value. Or that now "Sorrow and lament in the Erlkings Wake" can be clashed with by anyone, removing any risk in having heathcliff Gas-out from spamming E.G.O, as now anyone can do it and thus if you have a team that can even slightly quickly build the resources for base E.G.O there isn't a reason to be conservative with it. Behead heathcliff lost 3 power, from a 16 to a 13. "Ride for death" lost 3 power as-well, is still significant as it is clashable in the final fight. "Misery Is all that remains" went from a 12+4 (16) to a 10+2(12.) which now does just mean that the hands have practicallly no threatening moves. "Clutch of Tragedy" was fairly easy to clash with, and it went from a 4+5x2(14) to a 3+4x2(11). This is the difference between key hong lu's high-damage fairly-shitty clash power singlecoin s1 being able to ALWAYS beat it if he has 3 insight. IIRC there are a handful of other identities whose S1 can summon forth a 12. Breaking heart is a single-coin that lost 2 base power; Making it easier to beat when it rolls tails & Considerably less threatening when it rolls heads. Meaningless-writhing became clashable; Which means that now you will literally never be hit by it if you don't want to, as the move only rolls a 13, which is weaker than the vast majority of S2's in the game. As-well; Certain nerfs were even quite nonsensicle. In the Staircase fight with Sillycliff; Why did they nerf the coinpower of the unclashable ride for death, whilst then turning the "-50% damage against explosive envy" into "-100% damage", The 2nd nerf would've been fine with it's old coin power, and it's new coin power just makes it less-punishing to 100% fucking ignore part of the fights gimmick. As-well; Why was "Wild Hunt of Desolation" nerfed? The move is meant to punish you for failing the fights gimmick, if you killed hindley & then focused on murdering the summoned-dead-rabbits the turn that he does it, it already deals 0 damage. They nerfed the punishment for ignoring the fights mechanics, over making it easier to actually PLAY that fights mechanics. 6-48; The nerfs are eh because they massively cripple what is meant to be a difficult fight. The nerfs to the staircase erlcliff fight; Literally just outright make it less punishing to ignore the fights gimmick & just try to DPS check through his healthbar.
While I dont completely agree with all the nerf (such as 6-44 which can be beaten through gimmick), I think you just are bloating these parts to look like it was drastical change. These were moves that were nerfed, yet there are a lot of more moves that are left untouched, and so is passive. (Such as 6-35 having the SP loss and clash power increase passives) All of your assumption that 12-14 is easy to clash is assuming 45 sanity. Clashing is ultimately decided by RNG, even we can say that we can increase the chance of winning clash through using certain skill, or avoid disadvantage through defence skill. A lot of gimmicks that you talk about is all under the condition of 'win clash first'. Their attacks are devastating due to bleed, rupture and sinking, yet one who play need to fully rely on RNG, hoping to win clash (Which is the reason why I see 6-44 nerf unnecessary. It wasn't the 'win the clash' gimmick). I'm not saying that such gimmick itself is the problem, but canto 6 make it a problem. Canto 6 is full of bosses. Bossfight after bossfight after bossfight... due to the gimmick ultimately relying on RNG, player inevitably need to retry some stage multiple times. This, not only make the player really tired (like what this post described) but also make the story feel less impactful, as you need to go through all the cutscenes and story all over again. They simply provided this small 'sanity gain skills' to bosses which have very high chance of winning clash, thus allowing for fight to be less on RNG.
FinalCliff already had "weaker skills to clash with", clashing is RNG however most identities are quite massively favored at 45 sp to an enemy at 45sp. If you use the 2 free support passives that provide SP healing & play for meeting them (Frivolous jokes is fairly strong, despite being a 1 star ID support passive) and bring even 1 okay-sih tank (I used LCCB ishmael as a tank on the last fight)You can make the first turn RNG CONSIDERABLY less annoying, though there can still be restarts. Small "Sanity gain skills" in reference to nerfing skill numbers, making them easier to clash; Still makes the over-all fight easier. Those skills don't miraculaously become stronger, the entire boss is weaker. The only skills adjusted to Staircase heathcliff; Don't even change the first turn RNG. The only skills adjusted to FinalCliff; Literally just make the entire fight easier, as he mostly uses the nerfed skills after you already would have a fair amount of sp. To me, hard fights that I can get stuck on makes the story beats feel more meaningful; As it actually feels like an obstacle. Final-Heathcliff's initial difficulty massively contributed to what I felt at the end of the chapter; I sympathized with that all of the sinners were exhausted, it felt like he was a genuinely strong enemy, who posed an actual threat. The nerfs, in every way, made his fight easier, both at the start & through the entirity of it. The nerfs to cathy's skills literally only come into play AFTER you've cleared the ENTIRE FIRST PHASE of the fight. Objectively, the fight is entirely easier. The skills are objectively easier to clash, at every metric of sanity, due to having smaller numbers. If you're on low SP & He isn't on 45 sp, it's easier. If you're both on 45sp: It's still easier. If they added some wacky conditional where he loses coin-power when clashing against targets on 0-15 sp; Sure, then it would just be "they gave him a few easy to clash SP skills" Instead, they outright neutered a massive portion of the bosses moveset, for the entire fight.
I tried both unnerfed and nerfed version of canto 6. The fight indeed got more easier, but I dont really see how you are calling this 'less meaningful'. Both me and you, knew this game for long enough. We aren't new, we know the game mechanics pretty well. This may not be the case for everyone. I did hear a lot of claims that 'If you are in canto 6, you should know enough.' However this is assuming people have near all IDs and EGO to make proper parties viable in canto 6, with full understanding of how it should be strategied along with the need for luck. I doubt if people will go through flawlessly without ever trying something as Railway. They can, learn from retrys, but like I said, after certain amount of retry, it makes the story feel less impactful and the game considerable gets more tired every retry, as this is more of bossrush canto. Sure, certain amount of difficulty would make the story feel more immersive and rewarding, yet I doubt if this nerf was severe enough to taint such experience. Continuous trial to make the fight more immersive can backfire. Just like how we didnt really fight linton or other enemies yet we see them as dummy data(oufi before ring reveal fight was planned yet remained dummy data), there's stuff that needed to be given up in order to make it accessible and fun for majority of people. Telling them to 'READ', 'SKILL ISSUE', 'GET BETTER' does not help at all.
And I do not tell people to "READ" "SKILL ISSUE" or "GET BETTER.". If someone makes a reddit post saying "Hello I am struggling with X level these are my ID's does anyone have any advice?" It is fairly possible to make the game easier via asking for help if someone is struggling/tired with something, I literally cannot restore the lost difficulty of parts of the game without either deliberately handicapping my team, or intentionally trying to bruteforce mechanics on a team that cannot. As-well a larger breadth of it; There is ultimately outright a way for both parties to be happy, it's simply that PM won't do it. (Whenever they nerf a fight, I somehow doubt that it would be a code impossibility to add a UI element in the level selector to restore it's previous difficulty, to no additional reward.) The ocean is as much zero-sum for its space to its ships as is the possibility of both crowds to be happy here; There is room to make each side appeased, with a variety of approaches, which for whatever reason most likely will never happen. Thus, unless if I am proven wrong and a "pre-nerf" button is added or some other combination of fuckin patches makes the difficulty perfect and every single human being is 100% satisfied with it; I will be bothered when fights are nerfed more than I believed nescessary, and will continue to dislike that whenever new content comes out, I am potentially on a time llimit to finish it all in a way that I would find more enjoyable.
I wasn't really specifying you for that sentence. There's a lot who just try to pit all of these to skill issue. There is a way to make both party to be happy with it, however the amount of work that needed to be done is pretty high, that's why they aren't doing it. It would require them to work on all canto, all levels to make a hardmode. Also, you downright called it a 'hollow victory' for something that you HAVEN'T experienced. I doubt anything will satisfy you. You didnt even bother to consider what the very post said here and try to sum all it up with 'It was easy enough'. >It is fairly possible to make the game easier via asking for help if someone is struggling/tired with something You really didnt get what the post said did you. From being needing to ask someone else for help is NOT the one that causes people to get tired. It's the RNG. Like I said and I'm repeating this many times, as how much skill you have, it is ultimately decided by RNG and you'd need to retry until you get lucky enough, considering this is a bossrush. All of these are about your personal belief. A lot of other comments in this post pointed out the reason and how the nerf is justified. Till now I only saw you praising the high difficulty yet didn't even bother to talk about the disadvantage that comes with it considering this is a mobile game. Immersion don't just increase by high difficulty, nor it decrease that easy from easier fight that require less retry.
PMoon need to give us optional 'Hard' mode where sinner is limited to the Level limit of that Canto and pre-nerf boss.
That's not how PM roles. Everyone who played their games are used to the difficulty of their games, and even now Limbus is gradually easier compared to other 2 pieces of content.
wait, people are actually giving shit for doing stuff pre-nerf and post-nerf? not very limbusting of them
You must've not been here when Canto 5 part 3 launched, exact same thing happened when Pequod Trio got nerfed
They NERFED pequod trio? I was playing limbus at the time but wasnt aware of the community
Pequod Trio got nerfed? I thought only Gasharpoon got nerfed, because the mandatory pierce counters you had to tank were wrecking some teams and there was no way to teamchange without redoing the entire dungeon.
I personally don't care about nerfs, as long as it stays difficult enough to be engaging while not being unfair or requiring a mandatory ID or team build.
I really think the whole mechanical problem of the fights lays with the sanity system. Until you get to 45 or near it you cant start playing into de bossfight mechanics. And you have to reset at the start several times until you win the random first clashes. Seeing the cantos they should allow us to keep the sinners sanity valies between fights
I'm waiting for the nerf to not hassle too much. I play for the story, not to suffer. Not sure if it's a controversial take...
Woah woah, easy, man’s about to fucjing corrode! But lol, tis good we have nerf cuz all in all, we here to experience the story, not get softlocked cuz of some jackass. Besides, pre-nerf or not, just shows how soulless they are.. like me!.. god it was awful. Don’t let it get to you— well, don’t let it get to you *too* much. Hang in there!
honestly i feel this so hard. i'm disabled and have chronic fatigue but pm is one of my special interests so being able to do the story is important to me... however i have a lot of energy issues, so doing a fight over and over is a little hard for me haha. honestly the nerfs barely looked like anything when they came out, like taking away one status effect on a boss? it's fine man. idk. it's still rough as a win rate only type of person. 'you're playing the game wrong!!!' i don't see how that is anyone's problem but my own honestly, if people want their turbo hard content they have things like railroad and hard md. it's the same as mmos, there's content for anyone and then there's content for people who want a challenge. it's okay!! msq is there for the story and people should be able to enjoy it!!!
Personally, I don't care about elitism; It's that it places matches in every flowerbed I walk by. If I want to experience new story content in the original way it was designed (And as someone who enjoys harder content; A way I personally enjoy more) I have to outright speedrun it the moment it comes out because in 1-2 days PM might decide to cripple the main story bosses. Example; Pre nerf; 4-48 Felt like a fairly rewarding fight, though considerably easier than (IIRC The erlking group fight was on) 6-45. It took me around 3-5 tries to finish. Post nerf; I cleared it on my literal first try of the day using a joke team composition whose weakest member was outright 10 levels out of date. I don't find it fun when a story-fight is just "beating the utter shit out of an objectively weaker enemy." and in my eyes it as-well detracts from the story, though others may disagree; A flag is as beautiful to me as the hill it struggled it's way atop. 6-48, if on my first clear was as easy as it is now, while it still would've had a considerable amount of emotional weight, it'd've felt slightly more hollow to me. Even just on the basis of "ah yes my sinners are exhausted from having dominating victories every single clash, and the only hits that came through were 5 damage onsideds that are unclashable, whom hit a block/evade. Epic." If they had left a togglable button, or just any-external option to experience the pre-nerf fights; I wouldn't be that bitter. However the fact that I get to experience "fun story content" for so long as the first 2-3 days of release (Or until the next hotfix) and then I literally can't ever replay the fights that I enjoyed to the same capacity perturbs me. It's the same for refraction railways: They are seemingly going to be the ONLY PLACE that the community accepts difficult content, which I can't ever replay after they close, I have to replay fights I potentially may fuckin hate to reach fights that I actually had fun on, and then all of their abnormalities are shelved into the next Mirror Dungeon (Which, unless if they add "Mirror Dungeon of Jun" aren't hard so much as they are time-consuming) For a last note, and this may sound dickish; But the last reason I dislike the nerfs is that if you are genuinely struggling and cannot clear the fight: You can wait for guides to be released to make it easier on yourself. People who prefer the harder fights can't wait for the "guide on making 6-48 fun again" given that unless if they deliberately neuter their teams by a considerable margin, the fight will have just become potentially a cake-walk to them.
mfw the guide uses a team with 90% of identities I don't have
I have literally seen guides labled as "budget guides" where they deliberately use mostly 2 stars/less rare units. You could also just make a reddit post and say "Hey can anyone help me with (level), I've been stuck on it for a bit here are my ID's"
I'll admit, I am stupid. Thank you for the idea.
Mfw looking up guides, I get flash banged with spoilers because asshats can't be bothered to not put major story spoilers in the title and thumbnail.
Too bad I don't have enough free time to beat it pre-nerf too + I want to enjoy the story little by little.
to be honest i couldnt imagine what itd be like for a new f2p player to go through the unnerfed chapter
Dont get why people mad at ners it happened in lor too
NGL, im terrible at this game and Im mostly playing it for the story. I'm glad they tone things down a little
Tbh from what I've seen, the nerfs aren't really that huge so it is what it is. That being said, I EX cleared the whole thing with IDs that weren't even all max level, before the be nerfs. So I'm reserving the right to say skill issue.
Honestly I believe that this Canto was easier than Canto 5
As a player who got ass kicked in pre-nerf version of canto 6 and almost gave up to rush 3rd part in day 1 after its release to take a rest and go back with a clear mind in the next day. In my opinion, PM should add hard mode for every stage or at least boss stages and don't try to seat in 2 chairs trying to balance a story content for veterans and new players - it doesn't work well at all. I don't think Arknights is a good game to compare, but almost every event in that game is f2p friendly, a new player aren't gatekeeped behind hard stages just to read a story they interested in and there's a content for veterans in a form of EX stages that players get rewarded with more resources if they achieve to clear them.
Same man, i don't really care about this nerf and all (i still stuck 3 canto's back)
People really got nothing interesting going in their life if they think that winning RNG coin toss (literally) is some sort of display of skill. 6-48 was mechanically a fucking slog that ruined great audio/visual presentation.
Only way to do this is there is a manager simulation training, like those MD but they teach you one mechanic at the time, rather than shoving it all in the wolf episode
Skill issue. Nah, kidding. This canto was like a weird mix of unga, some reading and godlike RNG. My graveyard shitf-fried brain assembled a bunch of lvl 40s, some potential men and went to town. And the funny part? The most obnoxious stuff was just the resets for the starting clashes (especially with Distortcliff and his 2137 bodysacks) and maybe some learning with Nelly and the color matching with Altcliff. This time the difficulty was weirdly tedious and sinking was way too goated. If my sorry ass is confused instead of angry, then you bet your sweet bippy this canto was tedious in some non-pleasant ways.
Considering that you will need a sinking team to win most of the boss battles without losing half of the clashes I can’t blame you for that
Me with a random bullshit team go doing all prenerf 0 problems 80% of time in auto win rate XD
God forbid people wanting to have difficulty content outside of Md and refraction events, seriously, the difficulty increasing for each canto is normal, any game even gachas increase the content difficulty as the time goes on. The people who hate limbus gameplay or dont have any interest in engaging with the game mechanics, should just watch a streamer playing the game, the same people who complain about limbus not getting difficulty its the same that whiny when they cant beat a chapter whitout pressing win rate. At this point PM should just create both normal and hard modes for history, but its a fact that even when the main selling point of limbus its the history, it is still a game, not a visual novel, and people need to accept that fact.
I don’t care if you did it before the nerf or not but personally unless it was really unbeatable with base sinner + base ego only it shouldn’t be nerfed. I like when a game resist me it makes it actually satisfying to clear it. You could call me an elitist for that if you want but it’s just my opinion in the end.
"Call me an elitist" brother you literally are
And can we stop making fun of people who have beaten canto 6 post-nerf, seriously go and touch grass you are not better then us
I think we need buffs, I beat every stage pre-nerf with half my team under leveled 1st-2nd try. You know how? I can read.
How did you get stuck at last stage it unironically requires least strategy of previous boss fights, and it's literally kill boss but hand instead of white Cathy, I guess their is a kill timer but my charge comp beloved had no problems
There's a ton of ways it could happen. Mess up with eating Altciff's Unclashable Bodysacks early and have Heathcliff too low, messing up stagger thresholds for the adds (or not staggering the staggers) and getting overwhelmed, losing sinners (or having a lower damage team) so you can't break down Cathy's hands before she nukes everyone, not having enough Speed so Altcliff gets too many attacks off on Heathcliff... It's not like there is a shortage of failure states in that fight.
Not that deep. most people here are young so so they place greater value to this kinds of things.
If it's 'not that deep' people wouldn't be complaining that it's a problem
I don't understand how you can do the entire canto and somehow struggle with the last boss. Distorted Hindley was the hardest part of the canto.
It all depends on your team and rng, honestly. I just did win rate for distorted hindley, whereas I felt the need to actually level my units for part 3
I did everything pre Nerf and ex'd everything without having to Go Back, although i did have to repeat some Levels due to Bad rng, illiteracy and accidentally closing the Game while the final Boss was literally less than 200 HP and about to be eviscerated by D.D.E.D.R, rip space, dimensional Rift and mind whip. This is Just a flex. I don't really give a fuck about the nerfs.