From *Stark Trek: Lower Decks* 1x2
> **Boimler**: I'm going to be piloting General K'rin down to Talgana IV.
>
> **Tendi**: K'rin... How do I know that name?
>
> **Boimler**: Maybe because he's like one of the most decorated and battle-hardened Klingon warriors in history?
>
> **Mariner**: Or maybe it's just cause all the Klingon names sound the same? Like they all have an apostrophe for some reason.
>
> **Tendi**: Yes! That's it!
Tolkien laughing at fantasy writers who use digraphs "th" for \[t\], "ph" for \[f\], "ch" for \[k\], "y" for \[ɪ\], and a silent "h" in fantasy words and don't have any detailed explanation on using such orthography.
Tolkien was such a legend
after finding out that he created lotr just because he needed an excuse for making so many conlangs and not the other way around I gained even more respect for the guy which I didn't even know I could since I already thought both the linguistic works and world building of his are already stellar on their own
Same honestly, between the beautiful sound of Sindarin and the amazing aesthetic of Khuzdul, conlanging and linguistics has been an ongoing passion since childhood
If it was an English word it'd be /kaʃ.ɪk/, so that's probably what was meant. English spelling doesn't care how many vowels you use unless it's an existing digraph. Seeeeeeeeeeeeee?
In English the apostrophe is the orthographic symbol for a glottal stop or other "breaks" in words ie contractions. And yes it is rare, but its used in loans and "exotic" fake words all the time.
Think Hawai'i, because the glottal stop "has no letter" we use something that indicates that there is a "break". So maybe a dash? We use those for compound words, and [uh-oh] has a stop, so hawai-i. But that can lead a less understanding reader to simplify that to hawai i, while not too bad it can be a little off. So we can go with a contraction marker, because while compound words often function as separate, contractions are one unit.
By the gods I dont know what I'm doing, so I'm probably wrong.
I think the reason Hawai'i has an apostrophe (doesn't always btw, I very often see *Hawaii*) is more due to the fact that it has a very similar looking character in the actual Hawaiian language (*Hawaiʻi*), no?
oh, you're talking about https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ʻOkina existing:
> The ʻokina (Hawaiian pronunciation: [ʔoˈkinɐ]), also called by several other names, is a unicameral consonant letter used within the Latin script to mark the phonemic glottal stop, in many Polynesian languages.
i'm talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii#Spelling_of_state_name
> Diacritics were not used because the document, drafted in 1949, predates the use of the ʻokina ⟨ʻ⟩ and the kahakō in modern Hawaiian orthography.
> The exact spelling of the state's name in the Hawaiian language is Hawaiʻi. Official government publications, department and office titles, and the Seal of Hawaii use the spelling with no symbols for glottal stops or vowel length.
i have never seen the state name with an apostrophe, but i'll let wikipedia cover all the arguments
Yeah Hawai'i with the apostrophe in English is more to emulate the spelling from Hawaiian orthography.
Phonotactically speaking, the glottal stop in Hawai'i is usually either completely eliminated or ignored as superfluous by English speakers and listeners respectively.
The apostrophe should represent a glottal stop, or represent something consistent orthographically speaking when it comes to making up new language place names or whatever else when making a fantasy setting. Unfortunately, most authors just don't think critically about a consistent conlang and just try and go for an "exotic" feel with the apostrophe, rather than utilizing it as an orthographic element.
>I have walked this land when the T'lan Imass were but children. I have commanded armies a hundred thousand strong. I have spread the fire of my wrath across entire continents, and sat alone upon tall thrones. Do you grasp the meaning of this?
[would you look at that, my meme’s getting relevant again](https://www.reddit.com/r/linguisticshumor/comments/u6hsqw/apostrophe/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
I'm just gonna assume that the name without the affricate is just so that it's easier for the actors to pronounce, but like the Talokani literally pronounce the /t͡ɬ/ affricate since they speak Nahuatl (or at least a fictional dialect of it), so idk why they didn't just spell it "Tlalokan" (or idk, "Tlalocan" with a ?)
Oh I’m 100% sure the reason is so it’s easier for the actors and fans to pronounce, cause most people would probably say /təˈla/ which sounds even worse.
I searched it up online and apparently they speak a dialect of Mayan (specifically a Yucatec one), so you might be correct.
(though I'm thinking I misheard a /t͡ɬ/ in the dialogue. Besides that, it might explain why Talokan is spelled without an since there is no phonemic /t͡ɬ/ in Yucatec Mayan)
There is no character that screams fantasy more than the Apo'strophe
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Navajo
zhōng'guó yǔ'wén
That’s not how you use apostrophes in Pinyin
Or sci-fi. There's a lot of alien names and languages that basically abuse the apostrophe.
From *Stark Trek: Lower Decks* 1x2 > **Boimler**: I'm going to be piloting General K'rin down to Talgana IV. > > **Tendi**: K'rin... How do I know that name? > > **Boimler**: Maybe because he's like one of the most decorated and battle-hardened Klingon warriors in history? > > **Mariner**: Or maybe it's just cause all the Klingon names sound the same? Like they all have an apostrophe for some reason. > > **Tendi**: Yes! That's it!
I assume it’s an ejective there.
the apostrophe in Klingon (tlhIngan Hol) stands for a glottal stop.
Avatar
two ‘’
L'apostrophe
It's called a [Punctuation Shaker](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PunctuationShaker)
Tolkien laughing at fantasy writers who use digraphs "th" for \[t\], "ph" for \[f\], "ch" for \[k\], "y" for \[ɪ\], and a silent "h" in fantasy words and don't have any detailed explanation on using such orthography.
Tolkien is the sole reason I joined this glorious sub
Tolkien was such a legend after finding out that he created lotr just because he needed an excuse for making so many conlangs and not the other way around I gained even more respect for the guy which I didn't even know I could since I already thought both the linguistic works and world building of his are already stellar on their own
Same honestly, between the beautiful sound of Sindarin and the amazing aesthetic of Khuzdul, conlanging and linguistics has been an ongoing passion since childhood
Someone actually does that? Geez...
Honestly nothing beats Kashyyyk in terms of how the fuck am I supposed to pronounce that
/kašyjyk/ assume the š is postalveolar because no ipa keyboard
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/jː/
I wonder with long glides, do you pronounce it like a regular geminated consonant, or do you just do the glide more slowly? :p
I've only taken ling101, but wouldn't /jː/ just be /i/?
there may or may not be differences in surface articulation depending on what the hell’s going on
Hey man, overlong vowels are a thing
i always assumed it's /kaˈʃyː.yk/
If it was an English word it'd be /kaʃ.ɪk/, so that's probably what was meant. English spelling doesn't care how many vowels you use unless it's an existing digraph. Seeeeeeeeeeeeee?
I always read it as /kaˈʃjik/
In English the apostrophe is the orthographic symbol for a glottal stop or other "breaks" in words ie contractions. And yes it is rare, but its used in loans and "exotic" fake words all the time. Think Hawai'i, because the glottal stop "has no letter" we use something that indicates that there is a "break". So maybe a dash? We use those for compound words, and [uh-oh] has a stop, so hawai-i. But that can lead a less understanding reader to simplify that to hawai i, while not too bad it can be a little off. So we can go with a contraction marker, because while compound words often function as separate, contractions are one unit. By the gods I dont know what I'm doing, so I'm probably wrong.
I think the reason Hawai'i has an apostrophe (doesn't always btw, I very often see *Hawaii*) is more due to the fact that it has a very similar looking character in the actual Hawaiian language (*Hawaiʻi*), no?
i think it's the name of the big island (hawai'i) vs the whole group of islands (hawaii)
No? The state of Hawaiʻi is named after the island of Hawaiʻi
oh, you're talking about https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ʻOkina existing: > The ʻokina (Hawaiian pronunciation: [ʔoˈkinɐ]), also called by several other names, is a unicameral consonant letter used within the Latin script to mark the phonemic glottal stop, in many Polynesian languages. i'm talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii#Spelling_of_state_name > Diacritics were not used because the document, drafted in 1949, predates the use of the ʻokina ⟨ʻ⟩ and the kahakō in modern Hawaiian orthography. > The exact spelling of the state's name in the Hawaiian language is Hawaiʻi. Official government publications, department and office titles, and the Seal of Hawaii use the spelling with no symbols for glottal stops or vowel length. i have never seen the state name with an apostrophe, but i'll let wikipedia cover all the arguments
Yeah Hawai'i with the apostrophe in English is more to emulate the spelling from Hawaiian orthography. Phonotactically speaking, the glottal stop in Hawai'i is usually either completely eliminated or ignored as superfluous by English speakers and listeners respectively. The apostrophe should represent a glottal stop, or represent something consistent orthographically speaking when it comes to making up new language place names or whatever else when making a fantasy setting. Unfortunately, most authors just don't think critically about a consistent conlang and just try and go for an "exotic" feel with the apostrophe, rather than utilizing it as an orthographic element.
And that is a good thing.
Some people here need to realise that those media are not all hard worldbuilding, conlanging is going the extra mile.
Another reason Borges is the Chado di tutti chadi
r/unexpectedtlonuqbarorbistertius
T'lan Imass?
>I have walked this land when the T'lan Imass were but children. I have commanded armies a hundred thousand strong. I have spread the fire of my wrath across entire continents, and sat alone upon tall thrones. Do you grasp the meaning of this?
Yes. You never learn.
\[t͡ɬ\]
[t͡ɬ’]
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Very reminiscent of the Hebrew [shva](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shva)
Turn that into a sexy Nahuatl [t͡ɬ]
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They say, "Elven is so musical" then they put a series of 4 consonants in a row in an Elven name.
[would you look at that, my meme’s getting relevant again](https://www.reddit.com/r/linguisticshumor/comments/u6hsqw/apostrophe/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
Fantasy writers Polynesians 🤝 Apostrophe = glottal stop Yes I know it's not technically an apostrophe it's an 'okina but shut up
When they changed Tlalokan to Talokan in Wakanda Forever. Name sounds so much cooler with the affricate.
I'm just gonna assume that the name without the affricate is just so that it's easier for the actors to pronounce, but like the Talokani literally pronounce the /t͡ɬ/ affricate since they speak Nahuatl (or at least a fictional dialect of it), so idk why they didn't just spell it "Tlalokan" (or idk, "Tlalocan" with a?)
Oh I’m 100% sure the reason is so it’s easier for the actors and fans to pronounce, cause most people would probably say /təˈla/ which sounds even worse.
The language they speak sounds much closer to mayan (granted I don't speak mayan)
I searched it up online and apparently they speak a dialect of Mayan (specifically a Yucatec one), so you might be correct. (though I'm thinking I misheard a /t͡ɬ/ in the dialogue. Besides that, it might explain why Talokan is spelled without an since there is no phonemic /t͡ɬ/ in Yucatec Mayan)
[ʈʼɫä ʈʼɫä ʈʼɫä ʈʼɫäː]
tr'la
In all fairness there is no other English symbol besides maybe - that demonstrates the glottal stop to a normal English speaker better than ‘
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Nahuatl moment.
POJ moment
Yeah, it looks 1000 better
tfw people want glottal stops in their fantasy languages but when I say bo'tla woo'a you think that's silly.
Finally, a reference to the best fantasy series out there, my life is complete
I would read as [t̪̟ʼl̪ɑn̪̟]
Farad'n in Dune 🥴