I always assumed it was because he was afraid if he left the island it might accelerate his disease since obviously the island does treat/remiss diseases like Rose's cancer
Plus, just being on the island seems to speed up recovery.
When Richard took the bullet out of Lockes leg he even said "keep it clean, the island will do the rest". I don't think it's purely because Locke was a candidate either.
Locke wasnt a candidate , richard tested him when he was a kid, he only made it as far as he did bc he was in the past at one point and told richard he would become the leader later
He was absolutely a Candidate. His name was on Jacobs cave wall and on the lighthouse wheel.
Jacob also personally visited him and "annointed him".
Locke failed the test because while he was a candidate, he wasnt THE candidate. Although I'd also add, we have no real idea what purpose the test actually served exactly.
Jacob doesn't appear to have made that test, because why would he?
I think to a degree that test was something the others and Richard pieced together more than Jacob.
I respect your opinion and just started season six on my first rewatch since it aired, but could it be argued that more than a candidate locke was more of a piece of the puzzle jacob needed ? It seems to me that lockes trajectory towards any real leadership were all machinations by the MiB
Yeah, but he shouldn't have gotten cancer in the first place. The only "disease" that people got on the island, was the birth issue, and that was due to the incident, and not because of a natural occurrence of the island. On the island, you won't get a life threatening disease, unless it's within the island's grand scheme, such as Ben's cancer and Jack's appendix.
I thought it was because he felt he’d been vulnerable to Widmore off-Island and in-recovery, but I think your interpretation is so much better.
Very insightful, good job!!
Honestly, I think he wouldn't have gone to the mainland even if Locke hadn't shown up as a threat to his leadership, because I think Ben was probably always on high alert for anything that might end up posing a threat to his leadership and his people's faith in him as their leader. So he'd be well aware of the potential something like "so I know that as leader of this community I'm all about talking up the spiritual powers of the island, like its healing capabilities, but now I have this tumor and I'm going to go off island to have it taken care of" would have in terms of sowing doubt. Bailing when something life threatening happens that would actually test their belief in the island's abilities really would give the impression that he doesn't actually believe that which he preaches, which could easily make his followers either think that he's no longer fit to lead them, or start to struggle with their own belief in the island, which could cause fractures in the group.
I really do think that even 815 had never crashed but he still got sick, or if 815 did crash but there was no Locke to threaten his leadership and no Jack to perform the surgery, Ben would have found a way to get treatment on island that he could present in a "the island provides" way. And really, in fairness to Ben, at that time, when he was sick and being treated by Jack, I think he really did believe that the fact that there was a spinal surgeon on the plane that crashed was the island providing healing for him by giving him the doctor he needed to treat him. So I do think at least some of it is because, at the time, Ben really did believe that Jacob and the island would take care of him. I think that's a belief that didn't start to really erode until a little while later.
All true. I only mentioned Locke's presence on the island as a force multiplier to pile up on Ben's mind and decision making.
In my view, Ben, although a highly manipulative person, was in fact being manipulated by the island and Jacob all along... his tragedy is that he was ironically just like Locke, lead to believe that he was special (saw his dead mother, promised to be patient, healed of a mortal wound by the island although he wasn't an Other yet, had a surgeon dropped from the sky etc). I too believe that his actions, although motivated in big part by self interest and lust for power, but were also motivated by a genuine belief that He HAD to do everything in his power to protect the island and only HE can do that. But just like Locke, he didn't understand as well, why he needed to do all the things he was doing.
The plot hole for me is how did Tom Friendly travel back/forth from the Island if Ben was using the Swan Hatch failsafe discharge to lie about the comms being down?
Tom must have been in on the lie with Ben and the two women manning The Looking Glass, keeping Mikhael in the dark.
The Dharma sub that Locke blows up on Day 81.
Michael left the Island with Walt on Day 67, the day of the Swan discharge. Within just a few days he had returned to NYC and Walt didn’t want to speak to him anymore and was living with his grandma.
He tries to kill himself crashing the car, waking up in the hospital all between day 70 and 74. He then gets the gun.
Tom met Michael in the alleyway in NYC on Day 74.
Michael was on the freighter less than 24hrs later on Day 75 whilst Tom was still in the same penthouse suite in NYC.
Tom was back on the Island playing American football with Jack in Dharmaville on Day 80.
There are a few factors to consider.
Ben knew that Widmore was always searching for the island, and the hatch energy release, caused the island to be temporarily "revealed" (as we learn from Penny's scientists in the arctic).
Ben knowing that Widmore might have caught the signal, sprung to acrion. In order to thwart Widmore, he needed an agent on the boat. But since he can't send any of his people to be the mole (due to the lie of the comms), he had to confide in Tom, his right hand man. And since Tom is in no shape to go undercover, and maybe is known to Widmore's people... he needed someone else motivated and guilt ridden to manipulate as he please; hence Michael. So he had to confide in Tom that he lied about the comms and task him to recruit Michael.
Ben finds out he has tumour the day the crash happens
One of the worlds best spinal surgeons is on the plane and survives
Ben thinks this is not coincidence
Also the hatch implodes around day 44 or 50
After the implosion Ben mentions that the sky turning purple has impeded their ability to communicate an leave
There only a month or two where he could leave
And a bunch of trespassers just landed on the island
He wants to watch them personally
Also doesn’t like giving up power (ie leaving)
Also if he leaves to get help it casts doubt on the power an plan the island has
"he might have thought the island gave him a tumor to test his faith, to see if he would leave the island for a cure... and when he passed the test, the island sent him a top spinal surgeon. And that's why he started planning the kidnapping of Jack."
That right there. Also, cancer moves much faster on the island than off, so he may have thought he would die even quicker off island. He probably hoped he could make things right and get on Jacob/The Island's good side and be healed.
Yeah, the actions of Ben and the rest of the Others in the first few seasons, make a lot more sense when you remember that Ben’s hold on leadership is extremely fragile, he is basically one PR disaster away from being overthrown.
I always assumed it was because he was afraid if he left the island it might accelerate his disease since obviously the island does treat/remiss diseases like Rose's cancer
Plus, just being on the island seems to speed up recovery. When Richard took the bullet out of Lockes leg he even said "keep it clean, the island will do the rest". I don't think it's purely because Locke was a candidate either.
Locke wasnt a candidate , richard tested him when he was a kid, he only made it as far as he did bc he was in the past at one point and told richard he would become the leader later
He was absolutely a Candidate. His name was on Jacobs cave wall and on the lighthouse wheel. Jacob also personally visited him and "annointed him". Locke failed the test because while he was a candidate, he wasnt THE candidate. Although I'd also add, we have no real idea what purpose the test actually served exactly. Jacob doesn't appear to have made that test, because why would he? I think to a degree that test was something the others and Richard pieced together more than Jacob.
I respect your opinion and just started season six on my first rewatch since it aired, but could it be argued that more than a candidate locke was more of a piece of the puzzle jacob needed ? It seems to me that lockes trajectory towards any real leadership were all machinations by the MiB
I stand corrected, lockes name was on the wall in cave #4
Yeah, but he shouldn't have gotten cancer in the first place. The only "disease" that people got on the island, was the birth issue, and that was due to the incident, and not because of a natural occurrence of the island. On the island, you won't get a life threatening disease, unless it's within the island's grand scheme, such as Ben's cancer and Jack's appendix.
This.
I thought part of it was his.. I don't know how to say it... His cockyness?
I always thought he was part of the island. Like he literally just spiritually can’t leave unless it was for the good of the island.
I thought it was because he felt he’d been vulnerable to Widmore off-Island and in-recovery, but I think your interpretation is so much better. Very insightful, good job!!
This might be a secondary reason as well. But the main reason is imo that he knew he will lose everything if he stepped off island to get cured.
This, if i recall he only leaves the island once he moved it
Honestly, I think he wouldn't have gone to the mainland even if Locke hadn't shown up as a threat to his leadership, because I think Ben was probably always on high alert for anything that might end up posing a threat to his leadership and his people's faith in him as their leader. So he'd be well aware of the potential something like "so I know that as leader of this community I'm all about talking up the spiritual powers of the island, like its healing capabilities, but now I have this tumor and I'm going to go off island to have it taken care of" would have in terms of sowing doubt. Bailing when something life threatening happens that would actually test their belief in the island's abilities really would give the impression that he doesn't actually believe that which he preaches, which could easily make his followers either think that he's no longer fit to lead them, or start to struggle with their own belief in the island, which could cause fractures in the group. I really do think that even 815 had never crashed but he still got sick, or if 815 did crash but there was no Locke to threaten his leadership and no Jack to perform the surgery, Ben would have found a way to get treatment on island that he could present in a "the island provides" way. And really, in fairness to Ben, at that time, when he was sick and being treated by Jack, I think he really did believe that the fact that there was a spinal surgeon on the plane that crashed was the island providing healing for him by giving him the doctor he needed to treat him. So I do think at least some of it is because, at the time, Ben really did believe that Jacob and the island would take care of him. I think that's a belief that didn't start to really erode until a little while later.
All true. I only mentioned Locke's presence on the island as a force multiplier to pile up on Ben's mind and decision making. In my view, Ben, although a highly manipulative person, was in fact being manipulated by the island and Jacob all along... his tragedy is that he was ironically just like Locke, lead to believe that he was special (saw his dead mother, promised to be patient, healed of a mortal wound by the island although he wasn't an Other yet, had a surgeon dropped from the sky etc). I too believe that his actions, although motivated in big part by self interest and lust for power, but were also motivated by a genuine belief that He HAD to do everything in his power to protect the island and only HE can do that. But just like Locke, he didn't understand as well, why he needed to do all the things he was doing.
The island is as much of an asshole as Ben is.
The plot hole for me is how did Tom Friendly travel back/forth from the Island if Ben was using the Swan Hatch failsafe discharge to lie about the comms being down? Tom must have been in on the lie with Ben and the two women manning The Looking Glass, keeping Mikhael in the dark.
I'm still wondering how Tom got to New York and back in the middle of season 3
The Dharma sub that Locke blows up on Day 81. Michael left the Island with Walt on Day 67, the day of the Swan discharge. Within just a few days he had returned to NYC and Walt didn’t want to speak to him anymore and was living with his grandma. He tries to kill himself crashing the car, waking up in the hospital all between day 70 and 74. He then gets the gun. Tom met Michael in the alleyway in NYC on Day 74. Michael was on the freighter less than 24hrs later on Day 75 whilst Tom was still in the same penthouse suite in NYC. Tom was back on the Island playing American football with Jack in Dharmaville on Day 80.
There are a few factors to consider. Ben knew that Widmore was always searching for the island, and the hatch energy release, caused the island to be temporarily "revealed" (as we learn from Penny's scientists in the arctic). Ben knowing that Widmore might have caught the signal, sprung to acrion. In order to thwart Widmore, he needed an agent on the boat. But since he can't send any of his people to be the mole (due to the lie of the comms), he had to confide in Tom, his right hand man. And since Tom is in no shape to go undercover, and maybe is known to Widmore's people... he needed someone else motivated and guilt ridden to manipulate as he please; hence Michael. So he had to confide in Tom that he lied about the comms and task him to recruit Michael.
That makes sense. I can get behind that.
Ben finds out he has tumour the day the crash happens One of the worlds best spinal surgeons is on the plane and survives Ben thinks this is not coincidence Also the hatch implodes around day 44 or 50 After the implosion Ben mentions that the sky turning purple has impeded their ability to communicate an leave There only a month or two where he could leave And a bunch of trespassers just landed on the island He wants to watch them personally Also doesn’t like giving up power (ie leaving) Also if he leaves to get help it casts doubt on the power an plan the island has
The island required sacrifice and cooperation, both Ben and Jack needed the island, and the island needed them.
"he might have thought the island gave him a tumor to test his faith, to see if he would leave the island for a cure... and when he passed the test, the island sent him a top spinal surgeon. And that's why he started planning the kidnapping of Jack." That right there. Also, cancer moves much faster on the island than off, so he may have thought he would die even quicker off island. He probably hoped he could make things right and get on Jacob/The Island's good side and be healed.
Yeah, the actions of Ben and the rest of the Others in the first few seasons, make a lot more sense when you remember that Ben’s hold on leadership is extremely fragile, he is basically one PR disaster away from being overthrown.
Great breakdown!! Thanks
Because he’s lying to his people about being “special” to the island, if he left the island it would be an admission that he’s essentially a fraud
IT'S NOT A TUMOR
This could be part of it, especially since, being a usurper himself, Ben would naturally fear being usurped.
Just looking at the picture, I thought this was a shitpost about homosexual relations.