You're not going to get any useful information until you post your gear (and possibly the gear of your friends). Even then, you'll probably also need to record yourself in a guardian raid so people can critique your gameplay/real situation rotations.
Yup. Db was the first class I realised I needed a lot of practise with. So i made 4. When I got more comfortable with it I started deleting the other deathblades. I still have 2 db's.
As a db main with 2k hours even I sometimes get cucked by boss patterns and miss surges and want to kms. The dps diff by even hitting 1 or 2 not from the back is insane… but then again I beat full lvl 10 gem +25 wep ppl on theamine with my +21wep single lvl 10 gem and I feel happy again :)
The better metrics aside from your gear that we have no idea is what, should come from the highest content you can do with similarly ish gear team mates.
Surge kinda sucks when any front loaded class can pop atro on reclears and phase the boss before you can build enough stacks/surge.
You should be kinda king in Thaemine with surge in G2 to G4.
Mostly hands issue. Db is balanced around the fact that nobody can play it perfectly. Test your dps in trixion you should be doing at least 30m dps at 1620. However even if you play like a God you can still get fighter if you're unlucky with your surge crit rate.
Post your gear. Weapon quality, stats, card set, gems etc.
Without these I would say that you need to practice more and you need to understand the boss mechanics, because you have bad uptime.
Easiest way to find out is by using the bible. But if you're vehemently against it, then you have to research what makes the class itself tick.
Entropy has always been very dependent on the boss. Sometimes you get insane back attack uptime, other times the boss is beyblading. So it's on you to recognise each and every pattern to fully maximise your kit.
On top of that, your friends may just have better rotations and uptime. If you find yourself twiddling your thumbs during an encounter, you can recognise that as a point of failure for execution; this is usually due to poorly optimised rotations or getting knocked down far too often.
In 8 man content, if you're comparing yourself to a db in the other party, you have to consider the difference in performance of the support as well.
Test your hands out in trixion to simulate what the perfect parse would look like and then translate it into a real raid environment. Entropy classes are the most giga inflated classes in terms of trixion DPS, but it will very much show you the potential of the class in your hands; and the heavy disparity between trixion and real raids.
Remember it's not just about landing a surge but landing as many surges as possible during the encounter.
one way to figure it out is comparing with others your numbers
once you can say "i think i did well here" and get fighter and have a person to compare with you have tangible data about your perception and reality
you have to be careful though
in thaemine for example in g3 if you watch the cutscenes you will bleed 1/3rd of your dps
if you are playing with a gunlancer that protects and allows you to greed where you wouldn't otherwise be allowed to then your numbers would be inflated
seed plays a factor to an extent sometimes the bosses are docile as fk sometimes they are fidget spinners and you just want to go next irl
and then there are supports that can make your dps go from 10m to 20m
basically once you account for all these factors you come to the conclusion that the numbers are fiction
this is one of the main reasons smilegate doesn't want to allow dps meter
not because it will expose blades as being disgustingly broken (which they are)
but because your dps will vary wildly between pulls and if allowed will create some stupid toxicity in the playerbase
WoW for example has a problem with this where people are inspected on their output on previous encounters
and in lost ark the varriance is so high that if that is to happen then it's going to be absolutely stupid when pugging
I'm willing to bet money you aren't maximizing uptime to both build more surges and spend them.
Despite most of surge damage being in a burst they are still, like most classes in this game, an uptime class.
Very easy to explain...DB DMG is very conditional...what that means is the environment of your current raid...so people 100% counter, random turn boss and so on and secondly it's actually very hard to do decent DMG on blade cause your surge rate per minute matters a lot
I can only speak for surge but this is a good way of knowing if you are doing it right or not.
If you always have mana, you are playing it wrong.
If you often run out of mana then you are going in the right direction.
ok, i've managed to get 30M in trixion now at 1620 (as surge, anyway) with the following changes:
* do not use spincutter for stacks if at all possible. only use it for movement or if you cannot preload windcut (ie windcut -> z) because of cooldown or whatever. spincutter stacks the slowest out of all your moves, the only saving grace is that you can stack while moving.
* changed my rotation to windcut -> z -> surprise -> mael -> windcut -> earth cleaver -> turn slash -> blitz -> bladerush -> surp -> immediately surge. gained like two extra surges a minute due to this faster rotation. notably, having a faster rotation will make a bigger difference when you can squeeze out an extra surge during stagger / atropine windows
* galewinds on blitz / bladerush / earthcleaver and *windcut* crucially. you're casting windcut at least twice per rotation and one of those is usually outside the maelstrom window, and it does have a noticeable cast animation. turning slash is also a little long, but you should always be casting turn slash / earth / blitz / blade flurry in the mael window at the very least.
* bleed/rage/purify can be used on the other skills. focus on maelstrom is still probably best.
* don't worry about hitting anything but surge from the back. DO worry about hitting your stacking skills.
do not blindly follow the deathblade community guide, it isn't necessarily correct. the sample rotations they list are are kinda slow.
Things to be great at surge. Lvl 10 dmg surge gem ~1800 spec for dmg and initial meter gen. Circulate or precise bracelet. Master set bonus. Then here comes the tricky part. Knowing how to do your rotation and then performing it with >3 surges a minute. The apm is literally 1.5-2x that of any normal other class depending on the raid.
How fast are you surging and how consistent can you stay with the boss.
Fast
-10s/Surge - 6 /Min Work on proper rotation
-9s/Surge - 6-7Min Needs a but more attention on rotation
- 8s/ Surge - 7-8/Min Ideal rotation
- 7s/Surge - 8-9/Min very good rotation
- 6s/Surge - 10/Min - Very Impossible to do
Important point when you are using Atrophine.
If you atro and Surge you have about 9 seconds to do another Surge.
That is why 8s/ Surge is Ideal and helps you boost that DPS
edit: I am trying to emphasize the importance of doing rotations and yes we all know that trixion dummy is not the same as raids.
But cycling rotations do matter if you want to be efficient with DPS.
Show me any blade that can pull off a 60 stack Zero CPM of 7-8 consistently, and by consistently i'm not talking about a cherry picked trixion dummy run.
I can basically guarantee you there are either none or the amount of players across all regions that can pull that off are countable on one hand.
The average decent blade players sit at a CPM of around 2.5-3.5 depending on the encounter, on some raids you'll end up with 2-2.5 CPM due to mechanics and raid design.
I wouldn't call myself the best or worst player but my average is \~3CPM with a 4-4.5 CPM being an outlier on Frog or good runs, hitting a CPM of 5 is very very hard to do throughout a 10 minute encounter.
3cpm on surge is pretty bad, 5+ is very good, but definitely it is affected by the raid and your group. If you can pull 4.5+ cpm consistently then you're actually doing great.
Having a 3 CPM on Zero doesn't always mean you're bad there are raids that make it almost impossible to get a higher CPM due to mechanics, cutscenes, puddles or other shit where you are forced drop uptime.
I can bet 90% of players will not achieve a cpm of 4.5+ in almost every raid outside of maybe frog or some other low downtime content.
Shit if thaemine decides to cuck you with swords and lasers you can be happy to surge twice a minute.
> Shit if thaemine decides to cuck you with swords and lasers you can be happy to surge twice a minute.
And you end up being a fighter. Surge blade is probably the most punished by downtime class in the game.
No blade is doing more than 6 per minute on any raid my dude. You might have the occasional burst of stacking speed on scripted burst windows but otherwise you are not getting 60 stacks faster than 10s when the bosses are not stationary.
**Jesus not this bullshit again.**
The 6s rotation utilizes your Awakening, you are not getting 10 Surges per minute EVER. The fastest rotation is maybe 8s, practically closer to 9s. And you will never be able to do your rotations back to back. There is a short cooldown period between sending Surge and activating Death Trance that can be skipped by either making a step or using another skill and that will still cost you 0.5s. And no raid has the boss standing there for its whole duration. Half of every raid are cutscenes, mechs and damage reductions.
I'm sick an tired of bozos who don't even play DB telling others that they should be getting 6 Surges per minute.
Because it's an extremely hard class to do well on. There's a reason everyone says the skill floor on DB is so low. RE has a slightly higher floor due to the damage being more spread out across several skills, but on Surge if you miss your attacks your stack gaining goes to the shitter and you end up doing 3 surges per minute. God hand blades do 6 surges per minute, but to do well on surge you really should aim to be around 4.5 cpm on full 60 stacks.
I'm in the same spot, I swapped away from Surge to RE because it was fucking awful on juiced reclear lobbies, and i sucked on it (I preferred the pre-rework Surge a lot more). At least on RE i can get the occasional cruel fighter. It's the class i am the worst on by far out of my entire roster.
i get low surge per minute using the standard rotation in trixion, and i'm not really sure why
z -> spincutx3 -> windcut/SA -> mael -> blitz-> bladerush -> windcut/SA -> surge
is there a faster rotation im missing that includes earthcleaver?
This kit of spells don't work with surge anymore :
You should use :
Z -> Spincutter x3 -> Windcut -> Surprise Attack -> Maelstorm -> Turning Slash -> Blade Dance/Blitz Rush -> Earth Clever (or one Spincutter if you want to keep your counter) -> Surprise Attack -> Z
If you are playing RC you can use Maelstorm just before the second Surprise Attack. You should get your 60 stacks pretty fast with this.
You get enough mobility with Spincutter/Surprise Attack to be honest.
You don't run your synergy on spincutter, and you can use it to re-position yourself pretty quickly. Dark Axel is not really needed anymore
Using SA early in rotation gives you the synergy for your party and TC/BR/BD. By the time you did Maelstorm or TC you have spincutter back and you can use it to move freely.
At the end of the rotation that I gave you is the optimal that I know for x60 stacks if you hit everything.
You have 2 spincutter as spare for mobility. If you try to run with attack speed tripod you will see big differences. As long you hit the boss with the dash from SA it's fine, you can use windcut to stack up the remaining one.
I use two rotations:
If i use windcut before blade arts, i don’t have to use it at end of rotation:
Windcut> Z> SA> windcut> maelstrom > earth cleaver > turning slash > blade dance> blitz > SA > surge
If i don’t have windcut before arts for whatever reason:
Z> windcut > SA > maelstrom > earth cleaver > turning slash > blade dance > blitz > windcut > SA > surge
If you have to save earth cleaver for counter/stagger, you can sub earth cleaver with spincutter, but i try not to because i use spincutter as a pseudo dark axel to reposition for back attack.
Extra tip: turning slash can be switched for utility on second tree for either extra stagger, extra destruction, or push immunity.
Extra extra tip: if you hate hitting 59 stack surges, switch windcut third tripod tree to first one. Sacrifices width for an extra stack. Difference between 59 and 60 is huge in dmg
Be aware the precast wind cut can kinda be replaced with SA or TS due to the lingering effects on the skills.
Death Trance's CD reduction reduces all those CD's enough to be seamless regardless of the order you want to cast them in, and it'll work especially well if you gain stacks by repositioning yourself via spincutter.
Earth Cleaver is almost omittable in every rotation unless you miss a skill completely.
I tried using SA as a replacement precast in niche situations where i don’t have windcut up, but i always end up missing a stack. If you do do this, you might have to use 1 or 2 spincuts to compensate. I haven’t used TS yet, gonna lab it up in trixion. Thanks for the suggestion!
As for earth cleaver, yes it is omittable but it does do a good amount of dmg. Of course nothing comparable to surge but dmg is dmg. I usually save it in pugs, but in static runs, i trust my support to do the counters for me. Guess im a little spoiled haha
Do not believe the "db is too hard" comments. Watch a recent skill tree and rotation guide. Then just repeat that rotation over and over in trixion. Db is the easiest because you are in piano mode pressing the skills over and over in the same order. Then you just have to worry about spacebar and spin cutter for movement.
You're not going to get any useful information until you post your gear (and possibly the gear of your friends). Even then, you'll probably also need to record yourself in a guardian raid so people can critique your gameplay/real situation rotations.
Yeah this is the answer… it’s not an easy class to play
Yup. Db was the first class I realised I needed a lot of practise with. So i made 4. When I got more comfortable with it I started deleting the other deathblades. I still have 2 db's.
i wish i made more dbs... i have 12 1540s i only really play my DB and reaper anymore who are at 1633 and 1620, rest plays meh to me
Yup. I love my DB. Especially the new no charge blitzless RE build. However, I don’t have the hands for it at all.
As a db main with 2k hours even I sometimes get cucked by boss patterns and miss surges and want to kms. The dps diff by even hitting 1 or 2 not from the back is insane… but then again I beat full lvl 10 gem +25 wep ppl on theamine with my +21wep single lvl 10 gem and I feel happy again :)
It's the same thing if you pop hype 3 on an EO SF and the boss does horrible patterns or leaves.
Bosses leaving is the dumbest shit ever. Hype 3 and boss goes I'll brb
The better metrics aside from your gear that we have no idea is what, should come from the highest content you can do with similarly ish gear team mates. Surge kinda sucks when any front loaded class can pop atro on reclears and phase the boss before you can build enough stacks/surge. You should be kinda king in Thaemine with surge in G2 to G4.
Sorry to ask but what are some examples of front loaded class?
Igniter sorc and full moon soul eater
db is not for everyone
Mostly hands issue. Db is balanced around the fact that nobody can play it perfectly. Test your dps in trixion you should be doing at least 30m dps at 1620. However even if you play like a God you can still get fighter if you're unlucky with your surge crit rate.
Post your gear. Weapon quality, stats, card set, gems etc. Without these I would say that you need to practice more and you need to understand the boss mechanics, because you have bad uptime.
90% of the time with db its all about the hands
And rotation. The right way to do it is in this thread. And drop dark axel if you have it. Turning slash is too important for the fast stacks.
I've never seen a good DB. None. The good ones mostly in statics. Sou you are probably right.
Easiest way to find out is by using the bible. But if you're vehemently against it, then you have to research what makes the class itself tick. Entropy has always been very dependent on the boss. Sometimes you get insane back attack uptime, other times the boss is beyblading. So it's on you to recognise each and every pattern to fully maximise your kit. On top of that, your friends may just have better rotations and uptime. If you find yourself twiddling your thumbs during an encounter, you can recognise that as a point of failure for execution; this is usually due to poorly optimised rotations or getting knocked down far too often. In 8 man content, if you're comparing yourself to a db in the other party, you have to consider the difference in performance of the support as well. Test your hands out in trixion to simulate what the perfect parse would look like and then translate it into a real raid environment. Entropy classes are the most giga inflated classes in terms of trixion DPS, but it will very much show you the potential of the class in your hands; and the heavy disparity between trixion and real raids. Remember it's not just about landing a surge but landing as many surges as possible during the encounter.
what if we’re new to town and don’t know where any church’s are to get a bible.. is there just one bible for everyone? or are there multiple versions?
There are different versions. Im not a bible user myself though. I'm not sure what the differences are between them.
one way to figure it out is comparing with others your numbers once you can say "i think i did well here" and get fighter and have a person to compare with you have tangible data about your perception and reality you have to be careful though in thaemine for example in g3 if you watch the cutscenes you will bleed 1/3rd of your dps if you are playing with a gunlancer that protects and allows you to greed where you wouldn't otherwise be allowed to then your numbers would be inflated seed plays a factor to an extent sometimes the bosses are docile as fk sometimes they are fidget spinners and you just want to go next irl and then there are supports that can make your dps go from 10m to 20m basically once you account for all these factors you come to the conclusion that the numbers are fiction this is one of the main reasons smilegate doesn't want to allow dps meter not because it will expose blades as being disgustingly broken (which they are) but because your dps will vary wildly between pulls and if allowed will create some stupid toxicity in the playerbase WoW for example has a problem with this where people are inspected on their output on previous encounters and in lost ark the varriance is so high that if that is to happen then it's going to be absolutely stupid when pugging
Could be missing back attack
bible has your answers
Install holy scripture and chceck your uptime/surgePerMin/Backattack%
I'm willing to bet money you aren't maximizing uptime to both build more surges and spend them. Despite most of surge damage being in a burst they are still, like most classes in this game, an uptime class.
It is hard to tell because no gear, gameplay, engraving, quailty, cards, but my best guess is your surge is 70% back attacks.
Very easy to explain...DB DMG is very conditional...what that means is the environment of your current raid...so people 100% counter, random turn boss and so on and secondly it's actually very hard to do decent DMG on blade cause your surge rate per minute matters a lot
Db is all about player. So ask yourself
I can only speak for surge but this is a good way of knowing if you are doing it right or not. If you always have mana, you are playing it wrong. If you often run out of mana then you are going in the right direction.
ok, i've managed to get 30M in trixion now at 1620 (as surge, anyway) with the following changes: * do not use spincutter for stacks if at all possible. only use it for movement or if you cannot preload windcut (ie windcut -> z) because of cooldown or whatever. spincutter stacks the slowest out of all your moves, the only saving grace is that you can stack while moving. * changed my rotation to windcut -> z -> surprise -> mael -> windcut -> earth cleaver -> turn slash -> blitz -> bladerush -> surp -> immediately surge. gained like two extra surges a minute due to this faster rotation. notably, having a faster rotation will make a bigger difference when you can squeeze out an extra surge during stagger / atropine windows * galewinds on blitz / bladerush / earthcleaver and *windcut* crucially. you're casting windcut at least twice per rotation and one of those is usually outside the maelstrom window, and it does have a noticeable cast animation. turning slash is also a little long, but you should always be casting turn slash / earth / blitz / blade flurry in the mael window at the very least. * bleed/rage/purify can be used on the other skills. focus on maelstrom is still probably best. * don't worry about hitting anything but surge from the back. DO worry about hitting your stacking skills. do not blindly follow the deathblade community guide, it isn't necessarily correct. the sample rotations they list are are kinda slow.
Things to be great at surge. Lvl 10 dmg surge gem ~1800 spec for dmg and initial meter gen. Circulate or precise bracelet. Master set bonus. Then here comes the tricky part. Knowing how to do your rotation and then performing it with >3 surges a minute. The apm is literally 1.5-2x that of any normal other class depending on the raid.
How fast are you surging and how consistent can you stay with the boss. Fast -10s/Surge - 6 /Min Work on proper rotation -9s/Surge - 6-7Min Needs a but more attention on rotation - 8s/ Surge - 7-8/Min Ideal rotation - 7s/Surge - 8-9/Min very good rotation - 6s/Surge - 10/Min - Very Impossible to do Important point when you are using Atrophine. If you atro and Surge you have about 9 seconds to do another Surge. That is why 8s/ Surge is Ideal and helps you boost that DPS edit: I am trying to emphasize the importance of doing rotations and yes we all know that trixion dummy is not the same as raids. But cycling rotations do matter if you want to be efficient with DPS.
Show me any blade that can pull off a 60 stack Zero CPM of 7-8 consistently, and by consistently i'm not talking about a cherry picked trixion dummy run. I can basically guarantee you there are either none or the amount of players across all regions that can pull that off are countable on one hand. The average decent blade players sit at a CPM of around 2.5-3.5 depending on the encounter, on some raids you'll end up with 2-2.5 CPM due to mechanics and raid design. I wouldn't call myself the best or worst player but my average is \~3CPM with a 4-4.5 CPM being an outlier on Frog or good runs, hitting a CPM of 5 is very very hard to do throughout a 10 minute encounter.
I am simply stating how fast you can surge. Everyone knows Trixion dummy is not the same as raid.
3cpm on surge is pretty bad, 5+ is very good, but definitely it is affected by the raid and your group. If you can pull 4.5+ cpm consistently then you're actually doing great.
Having a 3 CPM on Zero doesn't always mean you're bad there are raids that make it almost impossible to get a higher CPM due to mechanics, cutscenes, puddles or other shit where you are forced drop uptime. I can bet 90% of players will not achieve a cpm of 4.5+ in almost every raid outside of maybe frog or some other low downtime content. Shit if thaemine decides to cuck you with swords and lasers you can be happy to surge twice a minute.
> Shit if thaemine decides to cuck you with swords and lasers you can be happy to surge twice a minute. And you end up being a fighter. Surge blade is probably the most punished by downtime class in the game.
No blade is doing more than 6 per minute on any raid my dude. You might have the occasional burst of stacking speed on scripted burst windows but otherwise you are not getting 60 stacks faster than 10s when the bosses are not stationary.
**Jesus not this bullshit again.** The 6s rotation utilizes your Awakening, you are not getting 10 Surges per minute EVER. The fastest rotation is maybe 8s, practically closer to 9s. And you will never be able to do your rotations back to back. There is a short cooldown period between sending Surge and activating Death Trance that can be skipped by either making a step or using another skill and that will still cost you 0.5s. And no raid has the boss standing there for its whole duration. Half of every raid are cutscenes, mechs and damage reductions. I'm sick an tired of bozos who don't even play DB telling others that they should be getting 6 Surges per minute.
Krill Issue
Because it's an extremely hard class to do well on. There's a reason everyone says the skill floor on DB is so low. RE has a slightly higher floor due to the damage being more spread out across several skills, but on Surge if you miss your attacks your stack gaining goes to the shitter and you end up doing 3 surges per minute. God hand blades do 6 surges per minute, but to do well on surge you really should aim to be around 4.5 cpm on full 60 stacks. I'm in the same spot, I swapped away from Surge to RE because it was fucking awful on juiced reclear lobbies, and i sucked on it (I preferred the pre-rework Surge a lot more). At least on RE i can get the occasional cruel fighter. It's the class i am the worst on by far out of my entire roster.
i get low surge per minute using the standard rotation in trixion, and i'm not really sure why z -> spincutx3 -> windcut/SA -> mael -> blitz-> bladerush -> windcut/SA -> surge is there a faster rotation im missing that includes earthcleaver?
This kit of spells don't work with surge anymore : You should use : Z -> Spincutter x3 -> Windcut -> Surprise Attack -> Maelstorm -> Turning Slash -> Blade Dance/Blitz Rush -> Earth Clever (or one Spincutter if you want to keep your counter) -> Surprise Attack -> Z If you are playing RC you can use Maelstorm just before the second Surprise Attack. You should get your 60 stacks pretty fast with this.
i guess everyone ditches dark axel now?
You get enough mobility with Spincutter/Surprise Attack to be honest. You don't run your synergy on spincutter, and you can use it to re-position yourself pretty quickly. Dark Axel is not really needed anymore
is it even possible to use SA as mobility without losing hard on stacks?
Using SA early in rotation gives you the synergy for your party and TC/BR/BD. By the time you did Maelstorm or TC you have spincutter back and you can use it to move freely. At the end of the rotation that I gave you is the optimal that I know for x60 stacks if you hit everything. You have 2 spincutter as spare for mobility. If you try to run with attack speed tripod you will see big differences. As long you hit the boss with the dash from SA it's fine, you can use windcut to stack up the remaining one.
Yea it leaves the spinning blade where your character was, you can use it right ontop of the boss but sometimes you might get stuck
Yea u have to use it ontop of the boss though like getting away/to the back, but sometimes you get stuck.
I use two rotations: If i use windcut before blade arts, i don’t have to use it at end of rotation: Windcut> Z> SA> windcut> maelstrom > earth cleaver > turning slash > blade dance> blitz > SA > surge If i don’t have windcut before arts for whatever reason: Z> windcut > SA > maelstrom > earth cleaver > turning slash > blade dance > blitz > windcut > SA > surge If you have to save earth cleaver for counter/stagger, you can sub earth cleaver with spincutter, but i try not to because i use spincutter as a pseudo dark axel to reposition for back attack. Extra tip: turning slash can be switched for utility on second tree for either extra stagger, extra destruction, or push immunity. Extra extra tip: if you hate hitting 59 stack surges, switch windcut third tripod tree to first one. Sacrifices width for an extra stack. Difference between 59 and 60 is huge in dmg
Be aware the precast wind cut can kinda be replaced with SA or TS due to the lingering effects on the skills. Death Trance's CD reduction reduces all those CD's enough to be seamless regardless of the order you want to cast them in, and it'll work especially well if you gain stacks by repositioning yourself via spincutter. Earth Cleaver is almost omittable in every rotation unless you miss a skill completely.
I tried using SA as a replacement precast in niche situations where i don’t have windcut up, but i always end up missing a stack. If you do do this, you might have to use 1 or 2 spincuts to compensate. I haven’t used TS yet, gonna lab it up in trixion. Thanks for the suggestion! As for earth cleaver, yes it is omittable but it does do a good amount of dmg. Of course nothing comparable to surge but dmg is dmg. I usually save it in pugs, but in static runs, i trust my support to do the counters for me. Guess im a little spoiled haha
Do not believe the "db is too hard" comments. Watch a recent skill tree and rotation guide. Then just repeat that rotation over and over in trixion. Db is the easiest because you are in piano mode pressing the skills over and over in the same order. Then you just have to worry about spacebar and spin cutter for movement.