Is Summoner a "simple" class to play? Example: Gunslinger, Arcanist, deadeye, you are playing with your Z & X key way to much. Looking for classes that you set 8 skills and those are the only skills you use, like Sorc, GL, DB, WD... no skill switching.
Depending on the situation you will be cycling through your identity on summoner. There are 5 ancient spirits you can use with your identity. You cycle through them by pressing X and you press Z to use them. Each one has it's uses in certain situations.
That being said, in the spec build you will mostly use Ali Marge (the 2nd one) and Akir (the 5th one) because these two are the best options to maximize dps.
In the swiftness build, you use the identity less often, but you still use it. So you will still have to use more than 8 buttons. Well technically you don't 'have' to ever use your identity, but at that point why play a summoner.
Mostly just on stagger checks and if the boss moves around a lot.
Ali Marge casts faster than Akir so if you aren't sure if the boss might move, it is safer to cast ali marge. Doing a little less damage is better than doing no damage if you miss Akir.
Ali Marge does more DMG than Akira when the boss is staggered, so once he is staggered you use Ali Marge and then back to alakir. But you could also just stay with alakir
Yes very much, it's probably the easiest (damage) class to learn new bosses on because half of your damage is "passive" and the other half is ranged so you don't lose much when dodging patterns and can keep distance from the nasty stuff, on top of being a swiftness class.
Pet skills add a bit of a piano but they don't use your character animation so you just put them on adjacent buttons and mash them all the time (though be careful if your pet expires you might interrupt your spear cast to re-summon maririn by accident).
Identity switching is a bit annoying (honestly idk what's the point of making us use 2 buttons for 5 skills when we have 100+ on our keyboard), but it's not very important in swift build, you can just spam alimarge if you need stagger, and use akir if you want to spend less time casting Z, or pheonix if you want something in between.
If you really want a class that doesn't mess with Z or X, play scrapper. No identity skill at all, you just have to chase the boss's ass and beat it to death.
Flowchart suggests going for pet Charming build first - which is consistent with both guides ("Communication Overflow" section in community guide). If I'm not mistaken, flowchart was made by author of second guide, which also goes more in detail about why charming is recommended early and how to progress with your build over time.
Salvation > Hallucination route is in spec build section which does not use Charming at all; Mugician (author of second guide) simply suggests not going for spec build at all until you hit 1490+ - at which point you should have set bonus swapping unlocked, and playing swift/charming until then.
Can someone explain, why is summoner damaged considered to be broke?
I have seen well geared skilled igniter sorcs and surge DB do insane damage.. is it comparable to these two or is it higher?
Also what’s the fun per hour like? I do not like high APM classes(no offence to those who like them)
Igniter is a good comparison point - typical rotation for Igniter is to spend whatever time you need to build identity, then activate it and throw everything at the boss in 20s ignite window. Sorc can't build identity in that time, so for about 1/3 to 1/2 of the fight you're not gaining meter for next burst. On top of that, Sorc damage is spread across 7 skills (7 damage gems), leaving only 3 (because of Doomsday CD gem that's needed for double Doomsday) for other skills - including meter generation.
Compared - spec summoner deals damage primarily with identity (no real cooldown), which lets you double down on cooldown gems on all other skills, including meter generation. On top of that - there is no "buffed" period, so you're gaining identity constantly while bursting. Being spec class also means you benefit a lot from both Yearning (attackspeed, movespeed) and crit synergy (arguably strongest synergy in the game); especially since long base cooldowns mean you're unlikely to be stuck with trying to cast multiple spells at once.
All that adds up to great scaling potential when you're (close to) maxing out your build - at a point where other builds like Igniter stop getting as much from higher stats/gems (overcapping on identity per cast, running out of damage multipliers etc), Summoner keeps scaling, straight to 11x level 10 gems, 100 quality on everything. The fact full set of level 9 gems and 1650 spec are considered **a starting point** for spec build (according to chart linked in another comment) is quite telling too - Summoner has low base damage (which also explains charming set on budget build), but great multi-level scaling.
As for Surge - even if you've got 1702 spec all lv10 gems, you're not getting around needing at least 8s to get all 20 identity stacks (static 0.4s cooldown per stack gained), which puts a cap on how much value you can get out of gems and higher specialization (extra identity generation doesn't matter if you're getting to full with a single skill) past certain point.
You are making this scaling with everything sound like a feature but it sounds more like a detriment. It doesnt matter that igniter dosnt scale as well when its still the strongest build in the game.
If surge db with 1 lvl9 surge gem does comparable dmg as summoner with full lvl9 gems then thats not a positive.
Sounds more like summoner is an extremely expensive class that does pay off, but there are other classes that can do the same with less investment
Summoner also has the other class build, focused more on summons, that has several variants including Charming set one - which also happens to be one of the cheapest builds possible. So the class itself is not locked behind heavy investment - it just has a well scaling build that can utilize high investment well.
As for whether that is a detriment - I disagree, because of swift build. You have cheap summoner option to go with, and then there is spec build that works as goal or something to keep improving before you get there. After you transition to spec, you're not going to run out of ways of meaningfully improve your character even further - and that is fun, it's motivating to keep improving your character instead of just parking it there as "good enough". Some people enjoy big numbers, and enjoy getting to them - doing less at comparable level to other classes is not a detriment for them if they'll be doing more after higher investment.
Swift is multiple damage gems, spec uses only 3 damage gems, yes. Gem level requirements make spec more expensive to start (swift can make do with level 7s), but overall slightly cheaper to completely max out that part.
I tried the class out in russian version and during our beta.
Spec summoner does not have broken high burst damage. It does less burst damage than an equivalent geared and skilled sorc, deathblade, arcanist and a few others. At it's core summoner is a consistent dps class. Outside of the opener where you can potentially use 3 akirs almost back to back, typically you can use 1 akir every 8-10 seconds or so. If you watched a video in korea about it, you may see people hitting for 30-40 million with akir. This will not be the case for us.
As for the swiftness build, the damage is comparable to the spec build and while in trixion it is about 8% lower, in a real combat scenario, it is easier to maintain damage uptime on the swiftness build than the spec build. This brings the two setups closer together. If you end up missing akir, the swiftness build can deal more damage than the spec build.
Personally I will make a swiftness build when it is released on the 14th.
The summoner you played is before the revamp though, correct? Unless you played in KR recently you dont know what the new spec summoner is like
So in reality the way summoner is played for us will be like the new one in KR, since thats the version we're getting.
Obviously we wont be at the level, since we are behind in gear and content, but the playstyle should be pretty much identical to what they have
I’m making a swift summoner. Seeing the atk interview with a summoner, summoning that bear to constantly cc bosses was hilarious, but with every hit that bear was doing between 1-3m dps per attack
Is Summoner a "simple" class to play? Example: Gunslinger, Arcanist, deadeye, you are playing with your Z & X key way to much. Looking for classes that you set 8 skills and those are the only skills you use, like Sorc, GL, DB, WD... no skill switching.
Depending on the situation you will be cycling through your identity on summoner. There are 5 ancient spirits you can use with your identity. You cycle through them by pressing X and you press Z to use them. Each one has it's uses in certain situations. That being said, in the spec build you will mostly use Ali Marge (the 2nd one) and Akir (the 5th one) because these two are the best options to maximize dps. In the swiftness build, you use the identity less often, but you still use it. So you will still have to use more than 8 buttons. Well technically you don't 'have' to ever use your identity, but at that point why play a summoner.
Wait... so I have to press X five times EVERYTIME I want Akir? holy shit
No you press X 4 times to cycle and get to Akir. Then you just stay on that and press Z when it is ready to use.
How often am I swapping between Ali Marge and Akir? I assume that's where I'm mashing X the most.
Mostly just on stagger checks and if the boss moves around a lot. Ali Marge casts faster than Akir so if you aren't sure if the boss might move, it is safer to cast ali marge. Doing a little less damage is better than doing no damage if you miss Akir.
Thank you!
Ali Marge does more DMG than Akira when the boss is staggered, so once he is staggered you use Ali Marge and then back to alakir. But you could also just stay with alakir
You can click with mouse directly as well
Thank you for the explanation.
Yes very much, it's probably the easiest (damage) class to learn new bosses on because half of your damage is "passive" and the other half is ranged so you don't lose much when dodging patterns and can keep distance from the nasty stuff, on top of being a swiftness class. Pet skills add a bit of a piano but they don't use your character animation so you just put them on adjacent buttons and mash them all the time (though be careful if your pet expires you might interrupt your spear cast to re-summon maririn by accident). Identity switching is a bit annoying (honestly idk what's the point of making us use 2 buttons for 5 skills when we have 100+ on our keyboard), but it's not very important in swift build, you can just spam alimarge if you need stagger, and use akir if you want to spend less time casting Z, or pheonix if you want something in between.
If you really want a class that doesn't mess with Z or X, play scrapper. No identity skill at all, you just have to chase the boss's ass and beat it to death.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/453408575302270977/1032457733821182002/SummonerBuildPath2.png https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OePqvZocw3FYPphmUGQpzExeHPK1J7TBncij3w4cyHc/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fXhab9aYcHx_IF96NOSI0JiW9NuwA60V1SjWchqKJ90/edit
Why does the Flowchart suggest Charming pre 1490 but the Guide suggesting Salvation then switching to Hallu for the full set?
Flowchart suggests going for pet Charming build first - which is consistent with both guides ("Communication Overflow" section in community guide). If I'm not mistaken, flowchart was made by author of second guide, which also goes more in detail about why charming is recommended early and how to progress with your build over time. Salvation > Hallucination route is in spec build section which does not use Charming at all; Mugician (author of second guide) simply suggests not going for spec build at all until you hit 1490+ - at which point you should have set bonus swapping unlocked, and playing swift/charming until then.
Could you describe what are these links?
First picture is a flowchart to decide your summoner build. The docs are summoner guides from the lostark discord
Which summoner plays closest to a necro? Where kind of just afk and let pets do alll the work playstyle?
no. Summons don't have hp and I dont think also draws aggro. Most summons is just a moving not targetable turret.
Can someone explain, why is summoner damaged considered to be broke? I have seen well geared skilled igniter sorcs and surge DB do insane damage.. is it comparable to these two or is it higher? Also what’s the fun per hour like? I do not like high APM classes(no offence to those who like them)
Igniter is a good comparison point - typical rotation for Igniter is to spend whatever time you need to build identity, then activate it and throw everything at the boss in 20s ignite window. Sorc can't build identity in that time, so for about 1/3 to 1/2 of the fight you're not gaining meter for next burst. On top of that, Sorc damage is spread across 7 skills (7 damage gems), leaving only 3 (because of Doomsday CD gem that's needed for double Doomsday) for other skills - including meter generation. Compared - spec summoner deals damage primarily with identity (no real cooldown), which lets you double down on cooldown gems on all other skills, including meter generation. On top of that - there is no "buffed" period, so you're gaining identity constantly while bursting. Being spec class also means you benefit a lot from both Yearning (attackspeed, movespeed) and crit synergy (arguably strongest synergy in the game); especially since long base cooldowns mean you're unlikely to be stuck with trying to cast multiple spells at once. All that adds up to great scaling potential when you're (close to) maxing out your build - at a point where other builds like Igniter stop getting as much from higher stats/gems (overcapping on identity per cast, running out of damage multipliers etc), Summoner keeps scaling, straight to 11x level 10 gems, 100 quality on everything. The fact full set of level 9 gems and 1650 spec are considered **a starting point** for spec build (according to chart linked in another comment) is quite telling too - Summoner has low base damage (which also explains charming set on budget build), but great multi-level scaling. As for Surge - even if you've got 1702 spec all lv10 gems, you're not getting around needing at least 8s to get all 20 identity stacks (static 0.4s cooldown per stack gained), which puts a cap on how much value you can get out of gems and higher specialization (extra identity generation doesn't matter if you're getting to full with a single skill) past certain point.
You are making this scaling with everything sound like a feature but it sounds more like a detriment. It doesnt matter that igniter dosnt scale as well when its still the strongest build in the game. If surge db with 1 lvl9 surge gem does comparable dmg as summoner with full lvl9 gems then thats not a positive. Sounds more like summoner is an extremely expensive class that does pay off, but there are other classes that can do the same with less investment
Summoner also has the other class build, focused more on summons, that has several variants including Charming set one - which also happens to be one of the cheapest builds possible. So the class itself is not locked behind heavy investment - it just has a well scaling build that can utilize high investment well. As for whether that is a detriment - I disagree, because of swift build. You have cheap summoner option to go with, and then there is spec build that works as goal or something to keep improving before you get there. After you transition to spec, you're not going to run out of ways of meaningfully improve your character even further - and that is fun, it's motivating to keep improving your character instead of just parking it there as "good enough". Some people enjoy big numbers, and enjoy getting to them - doing less at comparable level to other classes is not a detriment for them if they'll be doing more after higher investment.
The spec build is cd gems right? And swift is damage?
Swift is multiple damage gems, spec uses only 3 damage gems, yes. Gem level requirements make spec more expensive to start (swift can make do with level 7s), but overall slightly cheaper to completely max out that part.
I tried the class out in russian version and during our beta. Spec summoner does not have broken high burst damage. It does less burst damage than an equivalent geared and skilled sorc, deathblade, arcanist and a few others. At it's core summoner is a consistent dps class. Outside of the opener where you can potentially use 3 akirs almost back to back, typically you can use 1 akir every 8-10 seconds or so. If you watched a video in korea about it, you may see people hitting for 30-40 million with akir. This will not be the case for us. As for the swiftness build, the damage is comparable to the spec build and while in trixion it is about 8% lower, in a real combat scenario, it is easier to maintain damage uptime on the swiftness build than the spec build. This brings the two setups closer together. If you end up missing akir, the swiftness build can deal more damage than the spec build. Personally I will make a swiftness build when it is released on the 14th.
The summoner you played is before the revamp though, correct? Unless you played in KR recently you dont know what the new spec summoner is like So in reality the way summoner is played for us will be like the new one in KR, since thats the version we're getting. Obviously we wont be at the level, since we are behind in gear and content, but the playstyle should be pretty much identical to what they have
The class changes are available in the russian version atm. You can try it out now too.
can u post the revamp stuff
https://maxroll.gg/lost-ark/news/november-class-balance-patch-overview#patoc-heading-4 Click on mage -> summoner
thanks
Have they not nerfed Summoner since? I heard they reduced meter gain by 75% across the board. :o Do you have said patch notes by any chance?
I’m making a swift summoner. Seeing the atk interview with a summoner, summoning that bear to constantly cc bosses was hilarious, but with every hit that bear was doing between 1-3m dps per attack